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View Full Version : How do you assess Serena's THREE consecutive losses to Henin?


supergrunt
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:33 AM
So how do you? :lick:

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:44 AM
1. I have no fucking idea what happened at the French. I think it was just lack of concentration but I refuse to watch it.
2. She would've won that match at Wimbledon if she wasn't injured. I mean she even took it to 3 sets there, and still got in Justine's head.
3. At the U.S. Open, I think she was ill-prepared and didn't practice a lot between Wimby and then. She just didn't seem as confident.

Complete Analysis= Serena is the shit, and the best player to play the game. She will win more grand slams and beat Justine again, (hopefully it starts here in Madrid with the win and the title)
Also, she has a history of losing to players and a way of coming back and beating them over and over/whooping that ass. I.E. Sharapova.

But we'll be able to see how this how plays out starting here in Madrid.

supergrunt
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:46 AM
interesting

Derek.
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:48 AM
She wasn't able to match Henin's level. :shrug:

She starts too slow.

supergrunt
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:49 AM
hm I see

maddogz48
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:18 AM
How do you assess Serena's THREE consecutive losses to Henin?

My assessment is that in those 3 matches Henin just made some "lucky shots". :lol:

Let's see what happens in Madrid. Henin's luck is bound to run out.:rocker2:

SelesFan70
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:18 AM
I honestly think Serena expected Justine to fold at the US Open. The French Open loss is understandable. Justine is the premiere clay-courter of her time. The Wimbledon win helped Justine mentally by being able to beat Serena on a surface other than clay. Tennis is > 50% mental. Will be interesting to see what happens at the YEC...if they meet! :bounce:

ZeroSOFInfinity
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:22 AM
So how do you? :lick:

Bad coaching and training skills from Supergrunt :o

Volcana
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:23 AM
RG - Henin's surface
WB - Serena got injured
US - Lack of match play

If Serena get's in 2002 fitness level, she's still the best in the game. But less than that won't do it. It pains me to say it, but Henin s better than Venus, at least right now, which means Serena needs to focus on soeone other than her sister as a challenger.

One might note, however, that three consecutive QF losses to an inferior player is not new to Serena. The same thing happened in 2001.

darrinbaker00
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:35 AM
How do I assess Serena's three consecutive losses to Henin? Henin is the best player in the world, and Serena isn't. Next topic, please.

@Sweet Cleopatra
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:47 AM
mmmm I don't know
I feel that she only wants to beat Sharapova and no one else .

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:51 AM
mmmm I don't know
I feel that she only wants to beat Sharapova and no one else .

So, lets hope Sharapova is one of the people in her round robin, :devil:

AcesHigh
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:09 AM
Henin is the better player. Has always been the better player on clay but has never been able to step it up in the clutch or mentally against the formerly stronger Serena Williams on other surfaces.

Wimbledon helped her confidence and then at USO, it was quite easy. Serena was out of shape and not in great form. Sad to watch because it should have been a classic with the way Henin was playing.

Polikarpov
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:14 AM
1. Henin is better than Serena on clay.
2. Maybe Serena's injury was a factor.
3. Serena didn't capitalize on the most crucial moments IMO.

Expat
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:18 AM
1 henin better
2 serena injured
3 henin much much better than serena

Brooks.
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:32 AM
1. Henin better on clay. Serena didn't prepare enough on clay. If she wants to win the French again she's going to have to play more than one warmup tournament!

2. Serena injured. Henin was unsure. but Serena couldn't hit her backhand properly thus Henin prevails

3. Serena underestimated Justine here I think. She did have a set point at 6-5 in the first and if she could have pulled off that first set the result might have been different....but from the tiebreak on Justine was in another league and Serena was left in the dust

hingisGOAT
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:55 AM
One might note, however, that three consecutive QF losses to an inferior player is not new to Serena. The same thing happened in 2001.

More pathetic trolling :rolleyes:. FYI, Serena was NOT a better player than Hingis/Capriati in 2001 and is NOT a better player than Henin right now. :weirdo:

Bruno71
Nov 3rd, 2007, 06:25 AM
Serena had no chance from the get-go against Henin at the French. She's not comfortable enough on the surface these days, and her footwork was already completely lacking. Her best shot was at Wimbledon but unfortunately her injuries didn't allow her to take advantage of Justine's extreme nerves. Serena's footwork was still lacking at the US Open and she ran into a better player on the day.

Wolverines08
Nov 3rd, 2007, 06:32 AM
In all 3 Serena was playing patty cake like Justine was the bakers woman...To me, on a good day..Serena can still hit through Justine...she just starts playing Justine's game instead of the ball. Credit to Justine though.

IceSkaTennisFan
Nov 3rd, 2007, 06:33 AM
How do I assess Serena's three consecutive losses to Henin? Henin is the best player in the world, and Serena isn't. Next topic, please.
:lol: :worship:

treufreund
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:07 AM
In all 3 Serena was playing patty cake like Justine was the bakers woman...To me, on a good day..Serena can still hit through Justine...she just starts playing Justine's game instead of the ball. Credit to Justine though.

Well, actually, you give no credit to Justine (despite the last little apositive) :p

frontier
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:09 AM
I think her losses were all due to lack of proper preparation particularly matchplay.I think Serena will beat Justine and become a thorn in her side just like she dealt with pova.I think with clay she played only one event and wimbledon she was injured,USA open she was not prepared and appeared to be huffing and puffing.I think 2008 will be telling and I think we will see a more motivated Serena ready to take her place as the best of her generation.I dont think she will allow losses like these to happen again.:wavey:

Rosslyn
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:46 AM
I think her losses were all due to lack of proper preparation particularly matchplay.I think Serena will beat Justine and become a thorn in her side just like she dealt with pova.I think with clay she played only one event and wimbledon she was injured,USA open she was not prepared and appeared to be huffing and puffing.I think 2008 will be telling and I think we will see a more motivated Serena ready to take her place as the best of her generation.I dont think she will allow losses like these to happen again.:wavey:

I'm feeling really sorry for Serena fans: They are waiting for the return of a champion but the champion is not a part of SJW anymore

Zauber
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:48 AM
All this baloney.
Its simply Justin Hennin is better than Serena Williams.
That is what sport proves.
It is especilly clear in one on one sports such as tennis and boxing.
No crazy exuses please.
Of course that is asking too much.
Especially of Serena Williams and her crazy fans on this board.
What do you think of a looser like this?
Will the flamers and censors come out again?
freedom except on this board.

TSequoia01
Nov 3rd, 2007, 08:13 AM
Serena lost because Justine simply played better. Serena will never be confident again until her form improves. I give her credit she is working at it, but it has never been this hard before. Sometimes talent is its own worst enemy....takes things for granted. Let me say this, until Serena can hit out and get the ball over the net and in between the lines, she will lose not only to Justine but to many players. Serena is all about serve, power, and precision. Currently she only has the serve. P.S. for her footwork and movement to improve she has to get fitter.

bie
Nov 3rd, 2007, 08:23 AM
She was by far the better player on the day. :)


http://users.pandora.be/bie/biehappie/Justine-bekers01.jpg

Onyxangel
Nov 3rd, 2007, 09:05 AM
How do I assess Serena's three consecutive losses to Henin? Henin is the best player in the world, and Serena isn't. Next topic, please.

I love hearing you telling it like it is Darrin.:worship:

Juju4ever
Nov 3rd, 2007, 09:10 AM
I think it's because of the weather.

Renalicious
Nov 3rd, 2007, 10:02 AM
1. (French Open) Serena had a lack of concentration and I felt like she just didn't have that burning desire to beat Justine. Plus, Justine's best surface is clay so that gave her confidence.

2. (Wimbledon) Serena was practically hitting a one handed backhand and her leg injury by have effected the result of the match. Justine was playing pretty well too. However, I think this was a brave effort by Serena.

3. (US Open) Since the start of the tournament, you could see Serena had lost some of her skills that she possessed this one was just a skill difference. Henin played better. Serena played VERY bad, I thought. So many errors, bad footwork, under-par ground strokes and even her serve wasn't as good as it normally was.

I don't know what happened after Wimbledon but Serena's definitely not playing like she used to...I hope she picks it up in Madrid!

Renalicious
Nov 3rd, 2007, 10:04 AM
All this baloney.
Its simply Justin Hennin is better than Serena Williams.
That is what sport proves.
It is especilly clear in one on one sports such as tennis and boxing.
No crazy exuses please.
Of course that is asking too much.
Especially of Serena Williams and her crazy fans on this board.
What do you think of a looser like this?
Will the flamers and censors come out again?
freedom except on this board.

Ugh, Serena will shut you up when she double bagels Christine at the YEC.

Kart
Nov 3rd, 2007, 11:43 AM
Lack of time spent on the practice court, lack of tactical preparation, lack of fitness, lack of match play, injury and probable lack of commitment.

Justine demonstrates that the opposite of all the above which is why she has rightly won all the ones that matter this year.

In spite of all that, I still think Serena is the better player - though that might just me the nostalgic romantic in me.

Demska
Nov 3rd, 2007, 11:50 AM
1. Henin better
2. Henin better
3. Henin better.

serenus_2k8
Nov 3rd, 2007, 12:16 PM
Haha maybe not quite a double bagel but im sure it will be close :D

Matt01
Nov 3rd, 2007, 12:22 PM
1. Henin better
2. Henin better
3. Henin better.


This is exactly what I wanted to say...


Ugh, Serena will shut you up when she double bagels Christine at the YEC.


Too bad for you that that will never ever happen :lol:

T-GIRL87
Nov 3rd, 2007, 12:53 PM
I find it interesting that people are attributing Serena's losses this year to Justine simply being the better player, and nothing else. While Justine did play the better game, and outplayed her in most of their encounters, this to me only proves that Serena when at less than 100 percent, cannot get away with playing poorly against someone who is as solid as Justine. I recall, at the end of 2004, after Sharapova would go on to beat Serena twice that year in major tournments, everybody including myself was convinced that Sharapova was simply the better player, and would continue to dominate Serena for then on. However it would only take a matter of time before people were proven wrong. I just feel that when Serena is playing badly, she can make any player seem invincible. While Justine maybe playing the better tennis, are you really going to measure her game against a player who is as inconsistent and unpredictable as Serena? Until Serena can get her game together, I don't see her as much of a threat to Justine, just as the case was with Sharapova.

meyerpl
Nov 3rd, 2007, 02:56 PM
1. I have no fucking idea what happened at the French. I think it was just lack of concentration but I refuse to watch it.
2. She would've won that match at Wimbledon if she wasn't injured. I mean she even took it to 3 sets there, and still got in Justine's head.
3. At the U.S. Open, I think she was ill-prepared and didn't practice a lot between Wimby and then. She just didn't seem as confident.

Complete Analysis= Serena is the shit, and the best player to play the game. She will win more grand slams and beat Justine again, (hopefully it starts here in Madrid with the win and the title)
Also, she has a history of losing to players and a way of coming back and beating them over and over/whooping that ass. I.E. Sharapova.
But we'll be able to see how this how plays out starting here in Madrid.
The best player to play the game now or ever? Because, as great as she is, she's neither. Top 5 now, top 5 all-time I think would be accurate.

And I would hardly consider a 4-2 edge in head-to-head competition beating over and over. Federer has beaten Roddick over and over. If Serena runs off 3 or 4 more in a row against Sharapova I'll call it over and over.

I get it, Serena's number one in your heart, and that's great, but she isn't number one in the world, currently or all-time.

Henin is beating Serena for the same reason she's beating everyone else. She isn't the number one player because of some fluke.

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:08 PM
Ugh, Serena will shut you up when she double bagels Christine at the YEC.

:haha:

Is this Serena "I can't take a game off :silly:" Williams we're talking about?

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:11 PM
The best player to play the game now or ever? Because, as great as she is, she's neither. Top 5 now, top 5 all-time I think would be accurate.

And I would hardly consider a 4-2 edge in head-to-head competition beating over and over. Federer has beaten Roddick over and over. If Serena runs off 3 or 4 more in a row against Sharapova I'll call it over and over.

I get it, Serena's number one in your heart, and that's great, but she isn't number one in the world, currently or all-time.

Henin is beating Serena for the same reason she's beating everyone else. She isn't the number one player because of some fluke.

Maria beat her twice in 04 (although the second one was most def. a fluke) and never managed to beat her again. 3 consecutive wins.
Capriati beat her 3 times in a row in 2001, and Serena went on to beat her 8 times in a row after that.
What do you think is going to happen to Justine, :tape: ? Because as much as you think it and want it, she is NOT the better player.

DaMamaJama87
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:11 PM
Like others have said:
1-came out flat that day. Happens to the best of 'em
2-couldn't hit backhands well at all. Not a pretty match for either player
3-lack of matchplay

None of these things excuse Serena though. She was beaten by a better player on the day. She should have made sure to be ready and 100% everytime she stepped on to the court. I hope she is working on the things mentioned above so that she doesn't have another loss like that. We'll see at the YEC.

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:12 PM
:haha:

Is this Serena "I can't take a game off :silly:" Williams we're talking about?

Wow, your mouth is going to be soooo shut next week, :wavey:

Olórin
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:16 PM
Henin is the better player. Has always been the better player on clay but has never been able to step it up in the clutch or mentally against the formerly stronger Serena Williams on other surfaces.

Wimbledon helped her confidence and then at USO, it was quite easy. Serena was out of shape and not in great form. Sad to watch because it should have been a classic with the way Henin was playing.

I agree with the second part of your post but the first part :shrug:

What are you even saying? That Henin has always been better than Serena? First of all I have issues with the notion that Henin has always been the better player on clay? Serena has beaten Justine in straight sets in a clay tier one final, she lost to her in a third set tie break in the Berlin Final, which to be honest, she kinda threw away, and she was 6 points away from beating her in a RG semi-final before a DRAMATIC change of momentum. So I just don't get how one could say Henin has ALWAYS been the better player on clay.

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:17 PM
Wow, your mouth is going to be soooo shut next week, :wavey:

Come on, you really cannot expect that to happen (not the double bagel, but Serena winning). Just look at their form:

Justine is on a 4 tournament winning streak, she's lost 4 matches at 13 tournaments this year.

Serena won a stunning total of 2 (two) games in the last four sets she played in official competitions.

Even if you consider Serena the better player, what makes you think that her form will improve so dramatically from Zurich to Madrid so she can get from 0-6 0-3 ret. to beating the player who dominated the year?

Williams Rulez
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:22 PM
Justine was clearly better at the USO and RG.. well, I personally felt tt Serena would've won at Wimbledon if she had been healthy..

But what does this say abt their future match ups? Nothing much i think.. both are capable of playing amazing tennis, and who wins would depend very much on who brings their A game that day..

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:24 PM
Come on, you really cannot expect that to happen (not the double bagel, but Serena winning). Just look at their form:

Justine is on a 4 tournament winning streak, she's lost 4 matches at 13 tournaments this year.

Serena won a stunning total of 2 (two) games in the last four sets she played in official competitions.

Even if you consider Serena the better player, what makes you think that her form will improve so dramatically from Zurich to Madrid so she can get from 0-6 0-3 ret. to beating the player who dominated the year?

Bet you didn't think she could go from losing to Bammer in Hobart, to winning the AO either, :tape: :lol:

Bijoux0021
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:28 PM
Maria beat her twice in 04 (although the second one was most def. a fluke) and never managed to beat her again. 3 consecutive wins.
Capriati beat her 3 times in a row in 2001, and Serena went on to beat her 8 times in a row after that.
What do you think is going to happen to Justine, :tape: ? Because as much as you think it and want it, she is NOT the better player.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Dodoboy.
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:33 PM
i second that emoticon^^^

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:34 PM
Bet you didn't think she could go from losing to Bammer in Hobart, to winning the AO either, :tape: :lol:

Oh right, like you went and bet your house on that outcome :rolleyes:

Anyway, that was different, Serena was just getting in the groove, but now something is clearly wrong with her, whether it's an injury or something else. I'm not saying that it cannot happen, one can never rule out a surprise, but everything points to a Justine win in Madrid (current form, confidence, record this year, etc.).

If you don't want to admit to that, it's your choice, but please don't come in here with this attitude, like Serena is on a 50 match winning streak and Justine can't even put 2 games together, because if you look closely, you'll be surprised to find out that things are closer to being the other way around ;)

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:35 PM
i second that emoticon^^^

I absolutley love that song. Smokey Robinson is soooo amazing!!! I went on itunes and started listening to it, lol.
But, thanks guys, :yeah:

The Daviator
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:38 PM
She wasn't able to match Henin's level. :shrug:

She starts too slow.

Yep. She's giving herself such a hard time by starting so slowly, she's great from behind, she played her best in New York when Henin served for the first set and she was very close to stealing it from her, she also fought well when Justine was up 5-1 in the final set at Wimbledon.

I still feel if Serena played the way she played in the AO final, she'd beat anyone, that's unplayable, but maybe Justine is in her head, anyway, Justine right now is definitely better.

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:40 PM
Oh right, like you went and bet your house on that outcome :rolleyes:

Anyway, that was different, Serena was just getting in the groove, but now something is clearly wrong with her, whether it's an injury or something else. I'm not saying that it cannot happen, one can never rule out a surprise, but everything points to a Justine win in Madrid (current form, confidence, record this year, etc.).

If you don't want to admit to that, it's your choice, but please don't come in here with this attitude, like Serena is on a 50 match winning streak and Justine can't even put 2 games together, because if you look closely, you'll be surprised to find out that things are closer to being the other way around ;)

I betted Vcash on it, ;)
So, your saying something is wrong with her, and that is why she won't beat Justine. So you know that if she was 100% at everywhere in her game than she would whoop Justine, ;)
And even at less than 100, Serena can beat her. Even injured, (i.e. this almost happened at Wimbledon). But you'll be eating your words soon, :lol:

plantman
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:41 PM
How do I assess Serena's three consecutive losses to Henin? Henin is the best player in the world, and Serena isn't. Next topic, please.

That say's it all!:)

jujufreak
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:43 PM
If Serena get's in 2002 fitness level...


One might note, however, that three consecutive QF losses to an inferior player is not new to Serena. The same thing happened in 2001.

if she gets back to that fitness level, she'll be able to run after more balls and maybe hit them with even more power, but Justine's at the other side of the net and the way she plays is AS IMPORTANT as Serena's level of play... it's a pity some of the Serena fans aren't willing to accept that.

an inferior player :lol: what a JOKE :haha:

Craigy
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:47 PM
1. Henin was clearly the better player by far.
2. Serena's injuries hampered her, I believe she would have won that match if it wasn't for them.
3. Henin too good again.

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:47 PM
I betted Vcash on it, ;)
So, your saying something is wrong with her, and that is why she won't beat Justine. So you know that if she was 100% at everywhere in her game than she would whoop Justine, ;)
And even at less than 100, Serena can beat her. Even injured, (i.e. this almost happened at Wimbledon). But you'll be eating your words soon, :lol:

I'm saying it? So you don't think there is something wrong with her? Or is this her normal level, to win 2 games against Lena and Patty?

As for the 100% part it's hilarious how you're trying to put words in my mouth, I was saying that a shaky Serena will be the clear underdog against Justine, that is all.

plantman
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:47 PM
I betted Vcash on it, ;)
So, your saying something is wrong with her, and that is why she won't beat Justine. So you know that if she was 100% at everywhere in her game than she would whoop Justine, ;)
And even at less than 100, Serena can beat her. Even injured, (i.e. this almost happened at Wimbledon). But you'll be eating your words soon, :lol:

We've been hearing this for how long now....:lol: :lol:
Define what you mean!

jujufreak
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:48 PM
1. I have no fucking idea what happened at the French. I think it was just lack of concentration but I refuse to watch it.
2. She would've won that match at Wimbledon if she wasn't injured. I mean she even took it to 3 sets there, and still got in Justine's head.
3. At the U.S. Open, I think she was ill-prepared and didn't practice a lot between Wimby and then. She just didn't seem as confident.

Complete Analysis= Serena is the shit, and the best player to play the game. She will win more grand slams and beat Justine again, (hopefully it starts here in Madrid with the win and the title)
Also, she has a history of losing to players and a way of coming back and beating them over and over/whooping that ass. I.E. Sharapova.

But we'll be able to see how this how plays out starting here in Madrid.

poor you, still in denial...

Justine was simply better in Paris. At Wimbledon, Justine was nervous - not by the way Serena played - and that made the match a lot more difficult than it should have been, eventually the best player won. In New York, Justine was simply better. Serena wasn't that confident, because she realized it too...

Analysis: Justine was three times simply better. Of course she has to keep it up and improve some things. Serena will have to work harder and think of other ways to beat Justine than simply to overpower her.

JustineTime
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:50 PM
How do you assess Serena's THREE consecutive losses to Henin?

My assessment is that in those 3 matches Henin just made some "lucky shots". :lol:

Let's see what happens in Madrid. Henin's luck is bound to run out.:rocker2:

:haha:

The Dawntreader
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:51 PM
1. At the French, Serena tried to play justine at her own game. Kept trying to lengthen the rallies and that appalling slice backhand. Started to confuse herself and played with far too much safety and gave Justine such reprieve in the long rallies. Justine was impeccable though at pulling Serena wide on the backhand and then ripping the forehand in the open court. Serena just was became discombobulated and the errors started to flow.

2. At Wimbledon hampered by injury, but ironically was her best fight against Justine at the Slams this year. Serena stayed with justine as long as she could with the ever reliable serve and was striking enough winners off the forehand to get into contention. it was only a matter of time though until she was fully exposed off the backhand and her body just didnt have enough left. Again, jUstine was still better in the crunch.....

3. At the US Open, justine was in superlative form and Serena was nowhere near. Played decently enough in the first set but as soon as Justine raised her level, Serena didnt have the answers to respond. Looked increasingly outclassed by the end.

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:52 PM
I'm saying it? So you don't think there is something wrong with her? Or is this her normal level, to win 2 games against Lena and Patty?

As for the 100% part it's hilarious how you're trying to put words in my mouth, I was saying that a shaky Serena will be the clear underdog against Justine, that is all.

No, I was just stating what you were saying. I know she's not 100%. She hasn't been since Wimbledon. I was just saying that she doesn't have to be 100% to beat ANYBODY. She wasn't 100% in Australia or in Miami vs. Sharapova, and that's some scary shit right there. Serena at her best, is so above these "normal talent" players that it's not even funny, :kiss:

bandabou
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:53 PM
On clay..Justine rose and struck two quick times and that was pretty much it.
wimbledon..serena would've won if she wasn't injured. Justine wasn't ready for that yet, but Serena couldn't omve properly nor could she hit a backhand.

u.s.open..justine got the confidence from wimbledon, hey I can play with Serena on non-clay too and Serena came in unprepared.

In the end the better player won. No excuses....so Serena what you gonna do? Justine has your number right now.

jujufreak
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:56 PM
I think her losses were all due to lack of proper preparation particularly matchplay.I think Serena will beat Justine and become a thorn in her side just like she dealt with pova.I think with clay she played only one event and wimbledon she was injured,USA open she was not prepared and appeared to be huffing and puffing.I think 2008 will be telling and I think we will see a more motivated Serena ready to take her place as the best of her generation.I dont think she will allow losses like these to happen again.:wavey:

You think Serena will beat Justine in Madrid?

Does that mean Serena had enough matchplay now, did she work enough, she's not injured or ill?

I'd like to know this before the match against Justine in Madrid begins ;)

Olórin
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:58 PM
1. At the French, Serena tried to play justine at her own game. Kept trying to lengthen the rallies and that appalling slice backhand. Started to confuse herself and played with far too much safety and gave Justine such reprieve in the long rallies. Justine was impeccable though at pulling Serena wide on the backhand and then ripping the forehand in the open court. Serena just was became discombobulated and the errors started to flow.

2. At Wimbledon hampered by injury, but ironically was her best fight against Justine at the Slams this year. Serena stayed with justine as long as she could with the ever reliable serve and was striking enough winners off the forehand to get into contention. it was only a matter of time though until she was fully exposed off the backhand and her body just didnt have enough left. Again, jUstine was still better in the crunch.....

3. At the US Open, justine was in superlative form and Serena was nowhere near. Played decently enough in the first set but as soon as Justine raised her level, Serena didnt have the answers to respond. Looked increasingly outclassed by the end.

:yeah:

meyerpl
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:58 PM
Maria beat her twice in 04 (although the second one was most def. a fluke) and never managed to beat her again. 3 consecutive wins.
Capriati beat her 3 times in a row in 2001, and Serena went on to beat her 8 times in a row after that.
What do you think is going to happen to Justine, :tape: ? Because as much as you think it and want it, she is NOT the better player.
Want it??? I'm sick to death of it. I root for every opponent Henin plays against. I'm no big fan of Henin but I'm not deluded about how/why she's far and away the number one player with over 2000 points seperating her from the number two player and a 58-4 match record this year. I like many other players better than Henin but I'm not going to say they're better players because that would be stupid. I'm crazy about Serena Williams too but I'm not wearing blinders.

jujufreak
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:02 PM
But what does this say abt their future match ups? Nothing much i think.. both are capable of playing amazing tennis, and who wins would depend very much on who brings their A game that day..

true :yeah: you can't predict how a match will turn out to be (which is great imo)

Zweli
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:02 PM
May be Justine took coccaine :lol: :lol: :lol:

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:05 PM
No, I was just stating what you were saying. I know she's not 100%. She hasn't been since Wimbledon. I was just saying that she doesn't have to be 100% to beat ANYBODY. She wasn't 100% in Australia or in Miami vs. Sharapova, and that's some scary shit right there. Serena at her best, is so above these "normal talent" players that it's not even funny, :kiss:

That's your opinion, I have mine. Anyway, what do you mean by 100%, that's impossible to assess. Is 100% the best match Serena ever played (and if so, which one is that?) or is it the maximum level she is theoretically capable of reaching?

Jogi
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:06 PM
How do I assess Serena's three consecutive losses to Henin? Henin is the best player in the world, and Serena isn't. Next topic, please.

:clap2:

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:07 PM
May be Justine took coccaine :lol: :lol: :lol:

Am I the only one who doesn't find anything funny in what happened to Martina? :scratch:

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:08 PM
That's your opinion, I have mine. Anyway, what do you mean by 100%, that's impossible to assess. Is 100% the best match Serena ever played (and if so, which one is that?) or is it the maximum level she is theoretically capable of reaching?

And I respect your opinion, as I hope you respect mine :)
100% is the maximum level she is theoretically capable of reaching.

Geisha
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:08 PM
1. Henin is better than Serena on clay.
2. Maybe Serena's injury was a factor.
3. Serena didn't capitalize on the most crucial moments IMO.

Yeah, pretty much.

01. Henin is the best claycourter. Nevertheless, I hear Serena played way below her potential, and even Henin didn't play that great.

02. It went to three-sets and Serena couldn't hit proper backhands. Just goes to show you how different the outcome would have been if she was fully fit.

03. Serena had chances in the first set, a setpoint, I believe. She didn't capitalize, her serve stunk, and she lost. Henin played amazing, but as I always say, it isn't hard to play well when you're opponent is playing like shit.

Geisha
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:10 PM
And I respect your opinion, as I hope you respect mine :)
100% is the maximum level she is theoretically capable of reaching.

How can you possibly settle an argument using 100% by "the maximum level she is theoretically capable of reaching"?

That's extremely subjective, as Serena's peak was in 2002, but many argue that she would have beaten anybody with the way she played in the Australian Open final.

jujufreak
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:10 PM
I betted Vcash on it, ;)
So, your saying something is wrong with her, and that is why she won't beat Justine. So you know that if she was 100% at everywhere in her game than she would whoop Justine, ;)

keep on dreaming, no one is ever 100% at everywhere in her game, not Justine, not Serena, not Steffi or Martina, so this statement is ridiculous.

If she's not at her best possible level, it's her own fault. Some of her fans look at it as an achievement if she wins matches while not being fit, I think it's disappointing and not the way a real champion behaves.

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:11 PM
And I respect your opinion, as I hope you respect mine :)
100% is the maximum level she is theoretically capable of reaching.

Of course I do, so let's just wait and see what happens in Madrid, you'll get a beer from me if you were right ;)

Vlad Tepes
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:16 PM
keep on dreaming, no one is ever 100% at everywhere in her game, not Justine, not Serena, not Steffi or Martina, so this statement is ridiculous.

If she's not at her best possible level, it's her own fault. Some of her fans look at it as an achievement if she wins matches while not being fit, I think it's disappointing and not the way a real champion behaves.

I think it's normal to be proud when your player wins despite not being at her best, it's simply reassuring to know that even if she has a bad day, that doesn't mean she'll bow out of the tournament. However, that does become disappointing, as you stated, when a player makes it a specialty of the house to win like that.

jujufreak
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:19 PM
However, that does become disappointing, as you stated, when a player makes it a specialty of the house to win like that.

exactly :)

doni1212
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:30 PM
Of course I do, so let's just wait and see what happens in Madrid, you'll get a beer from me if you were right ;)

Agreed, :yeah:

Shaboinka84
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:49 PM
French Open-I felt that she didnt have enough clay matches. That thigh strain in Charleston ended her momentum from AO and Miami. Rome she lost to Patty and that wasn't enough clay match play. IDk why she tried to slice so much against Justine but that gameplan didnt work at all.
Wimbledon-I kinda watched that match but when i realized that she was injured and hit the jumping one handed backhand into the ground i was like oh boy she not gonna win.
US Open-For those who dont know I worked at the Open this year and I was in the promenade for the first set. Serena didnt capitalize on Henin serve up the T on the ad side. I was calling all of Henin's shots before she hit them. People around me were like wow you are right. WHy? Because Carlos knows that Serena FH can go off and if shes not moving well then attack that side. Serena also didnt serve nor move well at all. It was like she didnt care. After the first set I left and when to go hit on the outside courts as i was not happy with her effort.
Serena needs to work on her controlled aggression and little steps in footwork. If she can control that then she can beat Justine and others in the top ten on a regular basis. Shes in justine and jelena group so we will see

pepsi
Nov 3rd, 2007, 04:54 PM
Complete, utter, and total annihilation by the fitter and better player. ;)

iPatty
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:13 PM
I agree with someone earlier, I think it was Derek, who said Serena is a slow starter.

She really is. I mean she comes out just expecting to win every match and against Justine, that just doesn't work. She doesn't move her feet or have a "fighter" mindset from the get-go and it hurts her in the long run. Even in Miami, she obviously had an EXTREMELY slow start.

I think there comes a point when believing in yourself can go too far and actually hurt you. It's obvious that a match where both Serena and Justine were playing near their best would be a great match. That just hasn't happened this year, partly due to Serena.

amc987
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:27 PM
French Open- Henin is the superior claycourt player. She thoroughly outplayed Serena, forced her to move, and go for way too much too soon in the rallies. Plus, Serena's strategy was suspect. I'll never know what she was doing trying to out-finesse Henin with all those backhand slices.

Wimbledon- Serena was injured. She couldn't hit 2 handed backhands and once Justine figured that out, she only hit to Serena's backhand. Serena fought hard and probably would have managed to win if she hadn't hurt her thumb, especially given Justine's mini meltdown late in the 3rd set.

US Open- Serena had her chances. As others have pointed out she had set point at 6-5 in the first set. However, Justine came back and played at a completely different level after that. Serena was erratic, wasn't moving well, and Justine kept hitting winners. Sorry, "lucky shots".

I'm not sure about everyone else here, but I've felt that Serena has been leaning on her serve a lot more this year than in 2002-03 when she was dominating. It's almost as if she tries to compensate for her less than agile movement (especially compared to how quickly she used to get to the ball) by hitting aces and service winners. I think Serena's movement problems have manifested themselves in her groundstrokes. She seems to be much more erratic off the ground than she was, and much less willing to have long rallies. As a result, players like Henin, who can get Serena's serve back and hit winners by misdirecting her power shots, give Serena the greatest challenge. I think Serena needs to get in a little better shape (maybe 5-10 lbs lighter) and improve her footwork before she's going to be able to beat Justine, because just having a good serve isn't going to be good enough.

supergrunt
Nov 3rd, 2007, 05:29 PM
I just don't see how people could say that Justine is the better player. Its not like she beat her 1 and 2 or 1 and 1. Thats indisputable.

Expat
Nov 3rd, 2007, 06:02 PM
I just don't see how people could say that Justine is the better player. Its not like she beat her 1 and 2 or 1 and 1. Thats indisputable.
dont jinx her

she can lose 6-0 3-0 too

Linzi
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:01 PM
I just don't see how people could say that Justine is the better player. Its not like she beat her 1 and 2 or 1 and 1. Thats indisputable.

Justine is the better player. She has proved that over the past 2/3 years, we're not talking about what happened 5 years ago, we're in the present, and Serena hasn't done anything recently to suggest she's better.

TSequoia01
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:13 PM
Justine is the better player. She has proved that over the past 2/3 years, we're not talking about what happened 5 years ago, we're in the present, and Serena hasn't done anything recently to suggest she's better.

Exactly, Serena is in, then out, in then out. She has not done the hard work day in and day out to reach a level of consistency to prove anything. While Justine has done the work day in and day out. I suppose Serena is busy working hard in the last few weeks, but Justine has worked hard all year. Serena's game has deteriorated lower than I can ever remember and a couple of weeks probably will not bring it back. But she is Serena Williams and never count her out.

Demska
Nov 3rd, 2007, 07:16 PM
Agreed, :yeah:

But didn't Serena fans say "We'll see at the FO who is the better player" We all know the result.

Then, "We'll see at Wimbledon who is the better player" "It's Serena's better surface against Justine" and we know the result, regardless of injury.

THEN, at US Open Serena fans were "We'll see who is the better player at US Open!" "Serena has played matches all year and isn't injured" . We all know the result of that.

:wavey:

Jankofun
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:27 AM
The fourth loss is imminent, next year same month you can open a thread assessing why Serena lost six or more consecutive times to Justine.

harloo
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:36 AM
Serena only played at 32.7 % at the French and US Open. But at Wimbledon Serena was injured and able to play 48%. :lol:

Olórin
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:39 AM
Justine is the better player. She has proved that over the past 2/3 years, we're not talking about what happened 5 years ago, we're in the present, and Serena hasn't done anything recently to suggest she's better.

Proven. Or perhaps the present continuous tense: is proving, would be more appropiate for those who believe it is only a matter of time before: "Justine takes her rightful mantle as best player of this generation."

Fyi, why aren't we talking about what happened 5 years ago in discussing who is the better player. Am I missing something?

Matt01
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:43 AM
Fyi, why aren't we talking about what happened 5 years ago in discussing who is the better player. Am I missing something?


Because we are living in the present, not in the past :)

starin
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:45 AM
French Open-I felt that she didnt have enough clay matches. That thigh strain in Charleston ended her momentum from AO and Miami. Rome she lost to Patty and that wasn't enough clay match play. IDk why she tried to slice so much against Justine but that gameplan didnt work at all.
Wimbledon-I kinda watched that match but when i realized that she was injured and hit the jumping one handed backhand into the ground i was like oh boy she not gonna win.
US Open-For those who dont know I worked at the Open this year and I was in the promenade for the first set. Serena didnt capitalize on Henin serve up the T on the ad side. I was calling all of Henin's shots before she hit them. People around me were like wow you are right. WHy? Because Carlos knows that Serena FH can go off and if shes not moving well then attack that side. Serena also didnt serve nor move well at all. It was like she didnt care. After the first set I left and when to go hit on the outside courts as i was not happy with her effort.
Serena needs to work on her controlled aggression and little steps in footwork. If she can control that then she can beat Justine and others in the top ten on a regular basis. Shes in justine and jelena group so we will see

French Open- Henin is the superior claycourt player. She thoroughly outplayed Serena, forced her to move, and go for way too much too soon in the rallies. Plus, Serena's strategy was suspect. I'll never know what she was doing trying to out-finesse Henin with all those backhand slices.

Wimbledon- Serena was injured. She couldn't hit 2 handed backhands and once Justine figured that out, she only hit to Serena's backhand. Serena fought hard and probably would have managed to win if she hadn't hurt her thumb, especially given Justine's mini meltdown late in the 3rd set.

US Open- Serena had her chances. As others have pointed out she had set point at 6-5 in the first set. However, Justine came back and played at a completely different level after that. Serena was erratic, wasn't moving well, and Justine kept hitting winners. Sorry, "lucky shots".

I'm not sure about everyone else here, but I've felt that Serena has been leaning on her serve a lot more this year than in 2002-03 when she was dominating. It's almost as if she tries to compensate for her less than agile movement (especially compared to how quickly she used to get to the ball) by hitting aces and service winners. I think Serena's movement problems have manifested themselves in her groundstrokes. She seems to be much more erratic off the ground than she was, and much less willing to have long rallies. As a result, players like Henin, who can get Serena's serve back and hit winners by misdirecting her power shots, give Serena the greatest challenge. I think Serena needs to get in a little better shape (maybe 5-10 lbs lighter) and improve her footwork before she's going to be able to beat Justine, because just having a good serve isn't going to be good enough.

Great posts.
she's def. leaning on her serve a lot more, mostly because her ground game has been garbage since the SF of Miami. I feel like her ground game fell apart completely in the 1 set of the Miami final and never really came back. She won that final by mixing it up, coming to net and serving well. I think that surprised Henin...but then Serena's been injured constantly since then and has not recovered her ground game at all. I thought maybe in the fall she would find her ground game and then she lost to Dementieva 57 61 61. :help: Which shows when her serve starts to fail she is in trouble. I mean to break Dementieva only once in two sets :help: :tape: That is really pathetic for Serena who used to crush Dementieva's second serves like nothing. I remember at the USO Marion Bartoli saying she felt off the ground she felt she was more than equal to Serena and that only the serve made a huge difference. To me that speak volumes about where Serena's game is. She should be overwhelming Marion off the ground, especially since Bartoli is such a poor mover.

starin
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:46 AM
Because we are living in the present, not in the past :)

so then the correct response would be Justine is better ATM, seeing as the present is ever changing. Which is something that can not be argued. But if Henin were to retire tomorrow then Serena would def. go down as the better player in history.

Onyxangel
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:50 AM
Maria beat her twice in 04 (although the second one was most def. a fluke) and never managed to beat her again. 3 consecutive wins.
Capriati beat her 3 times in a row in 2001, and Serena went on to beat her 8 times in a row after that.
What do you think is going to happen to Justine, :tape: ? Because as much as you think it and want it, she is NOT the better player.

That's a cute statement... full of sound and fury signifying nothing...I have watched both these girls for a long time, and as much as you think it and want it otherwise, right now, Justine is the better player... period.

Lulu.
Nov 4th, 2007, 12:51 AM
French Open: Justine was gonna win anyway but Serena could of made it closer.

Wimbledon: Serena would have won this match had it not been for that thumb injury.

US Open: Serena was not playing well the whole tournament and Justine was playing very well.

plantman
Nov 4th, 2007, 01:29 AM
all the would've could've, should've.....:lol: :lol:

Face it, she didn't!:)

IceHock
Nov 4th, 2007, 01:44 AM
Justine is just playing better now than Serena is, it seems when these two play nowadays that Justine is way more pumped up to play Serena than Serena is to play Justine. But on the clay, Henin will always win basicly, grass Serena couldn't hit a backhand and to me she will always be the favorite on grass when playing Henin fully fit, and hard courts are a toss up.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Nov 4th, 2007, 01:52 AM
1.Serena an inferior player on clay to Justine
2.Serena was injured
3.Serena lets the first set slip away and Justine blows her off court in the 2nd set.