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skanky~skanketta
Oct 20th, 2007, 03:03 AM
KNOW THESE FACTS?

I 'm SURE you don't know till now!

Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

Make a personal reflection about this.....
Very interesting, read until the end.....
It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked:for whatsoever a man soweth,that shall he also reap.

Here are some menand women who mocked God :

John Lennon (Singer):
Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:
"Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain.
Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, Today we are more famous than Him" (1966).

Lennon,after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.

Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):
During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.

Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died .
Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):

During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ), while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said: "God, that's for you."

He died at the age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.

The man who built the Titanic

After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be.
With an ironic tone he said:
"Not even God can sink it"

The result:I think you all know what happened to the Titanic

Marilyn Monroe (Actress)

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.
He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.
After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:
"I don't need your Jesus".

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment

Bon Scott (Singer)
The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:
"Don't stop me, I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell".

On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.

Campinas (IN 2005)
In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....
The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

"My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.."
She responded: "Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside Here.....It's Already Full "

Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.

The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken ..

Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
Said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book ever written.

In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle ..

Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.

Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive ..

"Jesus"

skanky~skanketta
Oct 20th, 2007, 03:05 AM
i got this as a forward and i don't know why but it really pissed me off. help me out here guys!

NeeemZ
Oct 20th, 2007, 03:11 AM
What do you need help with?

woosey
Oct 20th, 2007, 03:17 AM
you don't know why it pissed you off?

IceSkaTennisFan
Oct 20th, 2007, 03:19 AM
The Joker called. He wants his font back :p

skanky~skanketta
Oct 20th, 2007, 06:10 AM
you don't know why it pissed you off?
yes. i hate over religious people who send me forwards like these when i've already told them to stop. If I could have an argument (i.e religious people who died a gross death) it would be great, but i dont know anyone as such.

hdfb
Oct 20th, 2007, 06:19 AM
If the senders of these chain mails need to use scare tactics to try and convince you that someone up there exists, doesn't that say enough as it is?

skanky~skanketta
Oct 20th, 2007, 12:44 PM
If the senders of these chain mails need to use scare tactics to try and convince you that someone up there exists, doesn't that say enough as it is?
oh yeah, i never thought of it like that. but it's not about that! i want to tell them that the reasoning is pretty stupid.

hdfb
Oct 20th, 2007, 01:38 PM
Well really, the people that say things about Christianity which the church doesn't approve of and are still alive far outweighs the other end. I'd put down their deaths to be nothing related to what they said about God or Jesus. The president may have been old and was on his way out, Titanic was because of an iceberg, Marilyn Monroe was on drugs anyway.

This is so stupid, can't you see it's pointless? Nothing they say will change your viewpoint, and nothing you say will change theirs.

miffedmax
Oct 20th, 2007, 04:03 PM
Voltaire frequently mocked religion, lived to a ripe old age and was famous as all get out.

I suppose some bad stuff happened to him too.

Basically, though this is very typical shabby reasoning. Cherry picking a few cases like this proves nothing--sure, there are plenty of people who have not been Christians and have had bad things happen to them. But so what? Take a list of Christian saints and notice how many of them died awful, rotten, horrific deaths that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, yet supposedly they're being rewarded somehow for their faith.

One might also ask why these alleged nonbelievers were singled out for punishment, and why God is so insecure about his own existence.

JustineTime
Oct 20th, 2007, 04:20 PM
Voltaire frequently mocked religion, lived to a ripe old age and was famous as all get out.

I suppose some bad stuff happened to him too.

Basically, though this is very typical shabby reasoning. Cherry picking a few cases like this proves nothing--sure, there are plenty of people who have not been Christians and have had bad things happen to them. But so what? Take a list of Christian saints and notice how many of them died awful, rotten, horrific deaths that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, yet supposedly they're being rewarded somehow for their faith.

One might also ask why these alleged nonbelievers were singled out for punishment, and why God is so insecure about his own existence.

Yeah, a rational person has to wonder why Christians would try to literally scare the hell out of people. If Christ's love and sacrificial, substitutionary, atoning death on the cross isn't enough, God coming down from heaven and heaving a lightning bolt right through the chest of Marilyn Manson ain't gonna do it, either. :tape:

There's actually a place for that approach, but it ain't in chain e-mails, which I detest under ANY circumstances anyway. :rolleyes:

Darop.
Oct 20th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Coincidences/Bullshit (that trunk one :rolleyes: )

I'm sure there are also thousands of examples of people who said some religious made-phrase and then shortly after got murderered/died in a horrible way.

JustineTime
Oct 20th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Coincidences/Bullshit (that trunk one :rolleyes: )

I'm sure there are also thousands of examples of people who said some religious made-phrase and then shortly after got murderered/died in a horrible way.

No doubt.

Like for instance: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

:scared:

*JR*
Oct 20th, 2007, 06:58 PM
Yeah, a rational person has to wonder why Christians would try to literally scare the hell out of people.
In the Middle Ages, this was half of the tactic used by the European aristocracy to keep the serfs in line. (The other half being the promise of paradise in the next life if they did STFU and go along with their virtual slavery "in this life").

If Christ's love and sacrificial, substitutionary, atoning death on the cross isn't enough...
If Jesus arose 2 days after his crucifixion and ascended to Heaven a few days after that (where "He" continues to perform divine functions nearly 2,000 years later) I don't see how one could call "His" choosing to experience a few hours of torture such a big sacrifice. (And if "He" was a divine being, "He" may not even have experienced pain the way an ordinary person with no choice in the matter would have).

Number19
Oct 20th, 2007, 07:43 PM
and why God is so insecure about his own existence.

That is what I never got. Somewhere in the Bible it says God is a jealous god. Jealous of what? And one of the Commandments is: Thou shall have no other Gods before me. Who are these other gods? I thought there was only one. What does He have to care so much about, if you don't believe in Him he can just shrug His shoulders and say "Well, your loss." God has got serious issues, and is a killer, too. The thread starter's list proves that. God seems like a jealous lover who when you stop seeing him, he stalks and kills you. Its not a good personality trait in human, it sure isn't one for someone who is suppose to better than us.

Fingon
Oct 21st, 2007, 02:15 AM
yes. i hate over religious people who send me forwards like these when i've already told them to stop. If I could have an argument (i.e religious people who died a gross death) it would be great, but i dont know anyone as such.

Joanne D'Arc was burnt alive.
Jesus Christ was crucified, so was Saint Peter.
Christians were fed to the lions by the Romans
Thomas More was decapitated.

I am sure there are a lot more examples.

JustineTime
Oct 21st, 2007, 03:03 AM
Joanne D'Arc was burnt alive.
Jesus Christ was crucified, so was Saint Peter.
Christians were fed to the lions by the Romans
Thomas More was decapitated.

I am sure there are a lot more examples.

Actually, there are, as I pointed out the previous post where Jesus quoted Psalm 22 as He was dying on the cross. It is considered an honor to die for the testimony of Jesus Christ, which is why I believe all of the people you named above not only died horrible deaths, but did so gladly. :shrug:

Hachiko
Oct 21st, 2007, 03:10 AM
If this is what some Christians believe God truly is then I totally fail to comprehend how they can worship such an evil entity.

#1Davenport
Oct 21st, 2007, 03:44 AM
Romans 14:11
"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2007, 04:00 AM
KNOW THESE FACTS?

I 'm SURE you don't know till now!

Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

Make a personal reflection about this.....
Very interesting, read until the end.....
It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7):

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked:for whatsoever a man soweth,that shall he also reap.


Hmmm....first thing that comes to my mind is "context".
The verse before ays, "Let him that it taught in the
word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things".

I took these two verses in succession to mean that
the one being taught not to be decieved in thinking
they could say all the right things in communing with
the teacher but not be living by them.

The next verse says, "For he that soweth to his flesh
shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth
to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life"

So, I take this to mean, don't be foolish enough to think
you can say one thing and do another and all will be well.
God knows and eventually it'll all catch up with you.



Here are some menand women who mocked God :

John Lennon (Singer):
Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:
"Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain.
Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, Today we are more famous than Him" (1966).

Lennon,after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.


Matthew 12:30-32

Jesus himself said:

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speath against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."


So, I do not believe John Lennon was
killed because he said he was more famous than Jesus.

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2007, 04:14 AM
That is what I never got. Somewhere in the Bible it says God is a jealous god. Jealous of what? And one of the Commandments is: Thou shall have no other Gods before me. Who are these other gods? I thought there was only one. What does He have to care so much about, if you don't believe in Him he can just shrug His shoulders and say "Well, your loss." God has got serious issues, and is a killer, too. The thread starter's list proves that. God seems like a jealous lover who when you stop seeing him, he stalks and kills you. Its not a good personality trait in human, it sure isn't one for someone who is suppose to better than us.

Think of it like this:

God created you(man) and made the world and all
that was in it for you(man), therefore, He wants
to be #1 in your life. Other gods don't mean "gods"
in the sense of competing "ALL MIGHTY POWER" but
whatever else is #1 in your life if he is not.

It's like, I gave you all of this and more,
and want to give you more. Make me #1 in your life.

And no, God is not a killer in the sense that people
are using it. Yes, he's a jealous God, and we've seen
in the Bible how people were struck down by God for
disobediance and so forth. However, God cannot be unjust,
so it is/was right as he saw fit.

And let's not forget that all whom died before Jesus, not
being able to hear his message and weren't right with
God still have a chance to be saved. So, I would guess that
it would mean such people as well.

Furthermore, people who have said such things about
this being why these flks died and how they died is
nothing more than speculation. Only God knows, IMO.


Also, two big things I always try and remember, you
must look at the context in which things were said
and know how to separae religion from people. Meaning,
not ever person who professes to say or do things in God's
name are of God.

drake3781
Oct 21st, 2007, 04:31 AM
Over-religiousity is a sign of mental illness.

Nervenbuendel
Oct 21st, 2007, 04:50 AM
So, I do not believe John Lennon was
killed because he said he was more famous than Jesus.

Totally agree.

This phrase is a wicked one. As far as I can remember Lennon 1966 was misunderstood in some kind of way - he just wanted to point out that the influence and power of Christianity was deteriorating. He never was an traditional materialist once in an interview he described God as an universal power - even friend of him acknowledged that the song "God" (1970) which seemed atheistic at first sight contained subjects Lennon actually believed in.

At all the murder was 1980 and not right after the interview 1966 which the letter falsely indicates.

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2007, 04:52 AM
And then there are those Christians who are simply self-rightous, guided by the vain belief that they're better than others because of it. Just how exactly is one supposed to love and fear God simultaneously? Especially when the Bible itself states:

"There is no fear in love; for the perfect love casteth out fear."
1 John 4:18



I had wondered this too.

Then, I came to an understanding that I feel "fear" means "respect"
in this instance. Ultimate respect for Him that made us. i.e. He broguht you into existance and can take you out.

Hence, Matthew 10:28

Jesus says, "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not
able to kill the soul,: but rather fear him which is able to
destroy both sol and body in hell."

So, I feel the definition of fear is somhow the same and different
as to what it means now, if that makes any sense.

It's I feel like a child with their parent. The parent gave you
life and you feared/respected your parents because yo knew. You know. :lol:


I think for anyone, God is what you want him to be. There are so many diverse Christian views - dare I mention this probably stems from the fact that the Bible is so vague in its content, not to mention an entire collection of written contradictions.

It's all in how things are interpreted. And I think we all
must understand that the Bible has gone through translations,
and written in times that are in some ways different and in some
ways the same as now. Not to mention the style of writing and meanings. I feel contradictions come not because of actual contradictions, but people's interpretations of things.


I mean really, just go to Leviticus 25:44 and you'll find your God is supportive of human slavery. But noo, remember God has a love for each and every one of us.

Really?

Who then brought about slavery? God or the free will of men?
If you are given free will and one is brought up in a time and place
where slavery is acceptable, then slaves will be had. Did God support it? Or did he simply state that to Moses?

God's chosen people were slaves, it happened.
Yet, it did not mean he was supportive of it
as you are speaking.

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2007, 05:03 AM
Totally agree.

This phrase is a wicked one. As far as I can remember Lennon 1966 was misunderstood in some kind of way - he just wanted to point out that the influence and power of Christianity was deteriorating. He never was an traditional materialist once in an interview he described God as an universal power - even friend of him acknowledged that the song "God" (1970) which seemed atheistic at first sight contained subjects Lennon actually believed in.

At all the murder was 1980 and not right after the interview 1966 which the letter falsely indicates.


Just in reading that, I could take to mean in knowing he was
a guy who wanted peace, that he maybe was speaking more of
Christianity(as in what some people have turned it into)
instead of denouncing religion.

I mean, how some will you Christianity and religon in
general to justify injustice to humanity in those that
would oppose their view rather than trying in love to reach
out to all types of people. Using it to divide instead of
unite. Now, I don't mean one has to or should change their views,
but not exclude because of what maybe somene has done or is. I
always took the Golden Rule to heart and without exception.

Jesus commanded that we love our neighbors as ourselves.
He didn't say, love thy neighbor, except or unless.....

Yes, the 60's as far as free love, drugs, and so on may
not have been "right" in the sense of love. I feel that
hearts were in the right place. And I think John saw that. That Christianity being used to devide instead of unite was not carrying as much weight as that time progressed.

And people grow and evolve.
How I may feel this year may not
be how I feel about something 10 years from now.

Hachiko
Oct 21st, 2007, 05:08 AM
It's all in how things are interpreted. And I think we all
must understand that the Bible has gone through translations,
and written in times that are in some ways different and in some
ways the same as now. Not to mention the style of writing and meanings. I feel contradictions come not because of actual contradictions, but people's interpretations of things.

That's very true. Although surely the absolute meaning being the phrases would not be lost in translation? It's the word of God after all. I also have a hard time believing that a translator would have published something they could not understand because of the writing style. You would think that the previous writer would've written it clearly so as to prevent this kind of problem.

Really?

Who then brought about slavery? God or the free will of men?
If you are given free will and one is brought up in a time and place
where slavery is acceptable, then slaves will be had. Did God support it? Or did he simply state that to Moses?

God's chosen people were slaves, it happened.
Yet, it did not mean he was supportive of it
as you are speaking.

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you."
Leviticus 25:44

I presume slavery was a reality long before Jesus arrived, although here it seems God upheld it and encouraged more people to do so. Not only that, but Deuteronomy 22:5 appears to prohibit the wearing of pants by women.

Paneru
Oct 21st, 2007, 05:43 AM
That's very true. Although surely the absolute meaning being the phrases would not be lost in translation? It's the word of God after all. I also have a hard time believing that a translator would have published something they could not understand because of the writing style. You would think that the previous writer would've written it clearly so as to prevent this kind of problem.

Welll, I feel certain things are "absolute". However,
I feel their are many that are not. And IMOhence the reason
their are so many denominations of "Christians".

And we have to remember that the Bible went through a couple of languages. And as we know, their are many languages where words and phrases do not translate exactly into others and so the closest to it is used in meaning.

You also have to remember, that the books of the bible were written by human beings. Not to say hat God through the Holy Spirit didn't guide them, but they as writers are also writing from their perspectives.

As for writing styles, each era had their own style of writing. And who could or would see that changing. Did Shakespeare write as he did to confuse us? No, he wrote as they did in his day. And as writing styles and speech throughout time changed you also had to have books likethe Bible and others either re-written or offer tools in which way one could better of this time understand what was meant of that time.

Not sure I worded this the best, but I hope you understood.



"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you."
Leviticus 25:44

I presume slavery was a reality long before Jesus arrived, although here it seems God upheld it and encouraged more people to do so. Not only that, but Deuteronomy 22:5 appears to prohibit the wearing of pants by women.

Again, I feel we have to look at this outside the box.
Was God saying slavery was good, or did he knwoing that
man encouraged slavery in this time and place and knwoing
of "pagan nations" not tell him what he'd have?

One could take this to mean God condoned slavery and
since the pagans worshiped other "gods", they could be enslaved.

I feel that man began slavery of
own free will and it stood "then".

As for women wearing pants, one thing I've learned is that
it is as simple as the "changing of the times". Those
codes of law were for the Isrealites of that time.

Remember, Moses also said a man could divorce his wife
by presenting papers that say such for whatever reason he chose.
Yet, Jesus came and said that except for fornication(adultery)
their wasn't to be divorcing. Jesus said, "For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precep."(MK 10:5) Basically, Moses knew what these men were like and allowed them to do this.

Hachiko
Oct 21st, 2007, 06:10 AM
Welll, I feel certain things are "absolute". However,
I feel their are many that are not. And IMOhence the reason
their are so many denominations of "Christians".

And we have to remember that the Bible went through a couple of languages. And as we know, their are many languages where words and phrases do not translate exactly into others and so the closest to it is used in meaning.

What do you mean exactly, some things are absolute and some things are not? Isn't this a form of ignorance - changing your interpretation of the words of God to suit what you want to believe about Him? I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere between whats literal in its meaning and what is not. Why would He use such ambiguity to get his message across? If what you're saying is true and this specific phrase from Leviticus is not to be taken at face value, then if I were you I would have my queries about the credibility of entire Bible itself. Who's to say there hasn't been hundreds more misinterpretations throughout it?

You also have to remember, that the books of the bible were written by human beings. Not to say hat God through the Holy Spirit didn't guide them, but they as writers are also writing from their perspectives.

As for writing styles, each era had their own style of writing. And who could or would see that changing. Did Shakespeare write as he did to confuse us? No, he wrote as they did in his day. And as writing styles and speech throughout time changed you also had to have books likethe Bible and others either re-written or offer tools in which way one could better of this time understand what was meant of that time.

Again, you could argue this but doesn't this undermine the entire integrity and righteousness of the Bible?

Not sure I worded this the best, but I hope you understood.

Again, I feel we have to look at this outside the box.
Was God saying slavery was good, or did he knwoing that
man encouraged slavery in this time and place and knwoing
of "pagan nations" not tell him what he'd have?

One could take this to mean God condoned slavery and
since the pagans worshiped other "gods", they could be enslaved.

I think that's a bit of a stretch of the imagination. There would've been thousands of people who were born into slavery itself, with no prior knowledge of idols or other kinds of sin.

I feel that man began slavery of
own free will and it stood "then".

As for women wearing pants, one thing I've learned is that
it is as simple as the "changing of the times". Those
codes of law were for the Isrealites of that time.

Remember, Moses also said a man could divorce his wife
by presenting papers that say such for whatever reason he chose.
Yet, Jesus came and said that except for fornication(adultery)
their wasn't to be divorcing. Jesus said, "For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precep."(MK 10:5) Basically, Moses knew what these men were like and allowed them to do this.

If God is righteous, is it not then completely unfair for one to suffer for no wrongdoing whatsoever? And is God so judgemental that he would permit the Biblical authors to prohibit women from wearing a piece of cloth?

I don't know what else to say. I guess there are just many ways of perceiving the text and it all depends on your mentality.