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View Full Version : Why hasn't Monica dedicated herself to fitness like Lindsey has?


nysaga
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:15 AM
Monica's natural tennis talent is untouchable but her main weekness is her fitness. Why hasn't she lost any weight in the last 4 or 5 years? She always says that she's working on that but she never loses any weight.

Lindsay has done an incredible job on her fitness and I just wished Monica had dedicated herself to doing that a couple of years ago. She would have contended for the No.1 ranking instead of lingering in the 4-6 positions.

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:32 AM
i personally look at it in a different way:

I am amazed that after the stabbing, the injustice of how Parche was set free, the coldness & disrespect of the WTA tour and the rest of the players towards her (voting against freezing no.1, against co-no.1, etc.), the death of her father/coach, knowing that without that incident she could have been the greatest, the millions of injuries, she is still out there. Anybody else would have left the game but here you have MONICA, the ultimate fighter.

To answer your question, who cares!

As for Lindsay, she is still single minded about her sport. Take for example Serena Williams. If she gets stabbed, lives through all this injustice, then loses her father/coach to cancer, do you think she would still be as motivated to stay in shape? I personally think that she wouldn't be even motivated to go out on the court.

Couver
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:39 AM
Well I don't think Monica is not motivated. You could see last summer than she did train very hard. She came back a lot fitter IMO, and as a result had some great wins.

Monica had slimmed down last summer, perhaps getting all the weight off is a little harder for her than Lindsay. Our bodies all react in different ways.

Another good example of the fact that she's fit is Australia this year. She went three sets with Venus and won, and then went three with Martina. And she even staged a comeback in that one. I believe she was like 4-0 down or 5-1 down. In the third and she got it to 6-4. I mean Hingis wilted faster in the final.

So I think she is working hard, the physical changes might not be glaring, but Monica is trying.

nysaga
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:43 AM
Serena would be strong and come back and prove everyone wrong. She won't be mired in self pity like Monica did. Sure, Monica faced a huge injustice but she has had plenty of time to get over it. I'm tired of some fans using it as an excuse 10 years after the fact. GET OVER IT.

But this is Monica's career. If she doesn't want to be remember as one of the greatest of all time...so be it. It's just sad to see the talent go to waste. Sure, 9 Glandslams and 54 singles titles is terrific and a dream career for most but with her raw tennis talent, she could have been THE best!

selesrules
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:48 AM
That is bullshit. You talk as if you know how Serena would react, she will definitely not be "more" motivated. Even Agassi said that if he had gone through everything Monica went through, he would never still be playing and that she's the athlete he admires the most.

Kart
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by nysaga
Sure, Monica faced a huge injustice but she has had plenty of time to get over it. I'm tired of some fans using it as an excuse 10 years after the fact. GET OVER IT.


I understand your point but I think you are being quite insensitive.

Seles had PTSD after her attack and eating disorder from what I understood from her book.

How would you feel if the same happened to you someone told you to 'get over it' ?

No one is offering excuses, we are just focusing on the positive - ie. she's still on a tennis court, playing to a high standard etc. Not everything is about results.

jd4eva
Jul 14th, 2002, 02:10 AM
'That is bullshit. You talk as if you know how Serena would react, she will definitely not be "more" motivated. Even Agassi said that if he had gone through everything Monica went through, he would never still be playing and that she's the athlete he admires the most.'

Didn't you just do the same thing when you said that you believed Serena wouldn't have the motivation to return to the court?

Couver
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:08 AM
It is very upsetting to see someone telling Monica to 'get over it'. I believe she has put it behind her, she's too strong a person to re-live that experience forever. But something like that never leaves you. The physical scars heal the emotional ones take much longer.

JCFan
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:55 AM
I agree with that luna. I think for those that say she should get over it should go and read her book. She details the experience as if you were right there with her, and it's pretty horrifying what she went through.

Williams Rulez
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:28 AM
Well, results have shown how much Monica can gain if she lost just a little weight, like in summer last year. She lost 5-8 pounds and had many spectacular wins. But whether she is willing to try to lose weight, is another thing. We'll have to weight and see if she going to dedicate herself in that department.

brickhousesupporter
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:43 AM
Monica and Lindsay are two different people. Monica is currently on the tour, and nutrition and fitness is really hard to keep up with when you are constantly playing tournament. Lindsay, has been recuperating from surgery, she basically has spent the last 7 months in a gym recovering and getting fit. When monica was injured, she came back and looked incredibly fit.

CB
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:56 AM
Oh come on are we gonna rely on this again?

How can you say Monica did not drop pounds is the last 5 years? After she was doublebageled by Hingis in Ericsson 00 she had a goal to drop 25 pounds! By the US Open, she was halfway there!

She looks nice and she's on the top of her game after the accident. Take a break ;)

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:01 AM
I have mixed feelings on this...

I agree w/everyone that it's truly amazing and inspirational how Monica was able to come up after such a horrific thing happened to her. She's still playing at a very high level despite being "old" by tennis standards, and when she's on, she can beat anybody. Despite not being very physically fit, she can withstand 3 set matches well and you will almost never see a low ranked player upset her...

HOWEVER,
Because she is my favorite player, (I'm over Bradshaw lol) it kills me to watch her play the top 3. Does she realize that all she needs to do is spend extra time on fitness? Does she enjoy being the Mary Joe Fernandez of the late 90s and early 00s, consistently getting to the quarters of grand slams and never getting further, beating who she is supposed to beat, and seldom anyone ranked higher than her. She has to be aware that she would win a grand slam if she would drop 10 pounds, or at least a favorite to win it, rather than a dark horse. It's her choice to do so though, and after almost 15 years on tour, one would expect she knows what she is doing. I just really wish she do what Mary Pierce did before the 95 Australian and hire some one to work with her EXCLUSIVELY on movement. Fuck the personal trainer, nutritionist, blah blah blah. Just get a drill seargent type for 2-3 months. If she does not want to do, thats fine with me. However, after all that she's been through, she doesn't want to hurt out there during practice. The process of winning Grand Slams hurt. It's a LOT of hard work, and I'm not sure if Monica wants that.

Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:42 AM
Is it possible for Monica's fans to both keep bringing focus to the stabbing, yet focus on the positive and present? Note please, I'm not talking about Monica herself.

Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:44 AM
CB - Are you saying you see no need for her to lose weight, and no advantage she might gain BY losing weight?

mishar
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:22 AM
First of all, I think Monica's father's long illness and death affected her and her game even more than the trauma of the stabbing. He was her coach all her life. I think it distracted her for years (from his initial illness in spring of 93 through 1999 at least) and in the end made tennis less important to her. She still works very hard (you don't get to be #4 in the world without hard work) but she doesn't have the single-mindedness she once had.


#2 she's had pretty serious injuries in the last four years. Her chronic foot problems make it hard to jog. Of course there are other ways to lose weight, but my point is she must balance her need not to overstress her body, the hours a day she must spend practicing tennis, and playing and preparing for tournaments. There are obviously more fit players who don't play their best in tournaments -- maybe Monica is making some choices that are actually helping her play well in most of the tournaments she plays.

3) She has lost a lot of weight. Compare photographs of her in 1997-2000 to photographs of her now and the difference is quite startling. She has so much more muscle tone now and less flab. But I agree she's fallen back on the fitness since last summer. Why I don't know. I have heard from inside sources that her injury problems are much more serious than she ever admits publicly, and I think if everyone knew how much work she actually put in to be able to be on the court and play at the level she does, they wouldn't criticize her so much.

4) As she said in one of her Wimbledon interviews, "I did the best I could." If that's not good enough for some people, that's their problem, not hers. Maybe Serena or someone else wouldn't have suffered so much and wouldn't have seen their game go down.. we'll never know. But these things happened to Monica, she wasn't perfect, she tried and didn't always succeed. I'm not sure any of us can say any better about ourselves.

She still has achieved enough to be one of the greatest players ever. Even the post-stabbing Monica, as inferior as she is to the earlier version, on her own terms would be (overall) one of the top 6 players of the last 6 years. So that's not too shabby. And plus her resilience and mental strength continues to inspire and delight many fans.

So sure I'd love it if she lost more weight -- but it's her life, her priorities, and I'm pretty pleased with where she's at right now, compared to where she's been in some past years.

irma
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:40 AM
I hope monica is not as obsessed with her weight as some of her fans, that would be really sad! :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:33 AM
Who knows why, as only Monica knows that answer. I do think when she gets fully fit that she will then win another grandslam I think it's really up to Monica as to when that will occur. But time is ticking so I say "jas do it"before it's too late to get that tenth one.:)

Note: please don't compare two different tennis players as each women is her own person and lives her life different than the other. I also don't think her fitness level has anything to do with that stabbing incident. Sure she will never forget what happened, but to Monica's credit she is a different women now. I am sure she could handle a fitness program if she wanted too, as she is not some dainty lil creature that would let something that happened so long ago still affect her fitness.

Too be honest if anything is hampering herself from getting 100% conditioned it is probably that eating disorder. NOT that she has one at the moment, mind you.

R. DIS
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:45 AM
I hate hearing every year from tennis commentators and everyone that by the Austrailan Open Monica will be 100% fit. It's so old now, who cares if she gets fit??????? She's only hurting herself and ruining her career. When people think of Monica they don't think of the years when she dominated they think of the stabbing and how she was never dedicated to the game or fitness. Yeah she would have a good win every now and then but that's it. I'm tired of hearing it, we should focus on people who take the game seriously and are winners, like Jen.

Sam L
Jul 14th, 2002, 08:32 AM
She did up to 1993, it's not her fault her career got robbed :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Jul 14th, 2002, 08:45 AM
Monica takes the tennis game seriously, she is a loyal Fed Cup player and TEAM player. She is a champion and has the intensity to win.

YOU CRAZY.. R DIS

Kart
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Is it possible for Monica's fans to both keep bringing focus to the stabbing, yet focus on the positive and present? Note please, I'm not talking about Monica herself.

It is. You can remember she was stabbed and realise that we are all lucky to see her playing tennis to the highest level ten years later. I'm not interested in her being 'robbed of her career' or anything else.

The real question is : can fans cope with the fact that maybe Monica isn't going to lose the weight ? Or more importantly : in the grand scheme of things is it really that big a deal ?

To me personally, the future is bright - my fave is playing tennis on court and enjoying herself. I couldn't care less that she could lose a few pounds and maybe win a bit more - she seems pretty happy with the way she is. Like I said before results don't matter - life couldn't be better :).

Jakeev
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:55 PM
Frankly, I don't think Monica's biggest challenger is her physical fitness. The fact is, even though she is ranked high in the world again, she still slightly lacks that killer instinct she is famous for.

Monica used to be the toughest player in the world mentally and Steffi Graf, before Monica's stabbing, was the only player who really could outright beat Monica on court.

But Monica, all these years later, is still a cut above the rest of the pack. How much longer she can keep it up is gonna be up to her and if she still wants that one more Grand Slam title, she is gonna have to fight for it.

earthcrystal
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by nysaga
Serena would be strong and come back and prove everyone wrong. She won't be mired in self pity like Monica did. Sure, Monica faced a huge injustice but she has had plenty of time to get over it. I'm tired of some fans using it as an excuse 10 years after the fact. GET OVER IT.

But this is Monica's career. If she doesn't want to be remember as one of the greatest of all time...so be it. It's just sad to see the talent go to waste. Sure, 9 Glandslams and 54 singles titles is terrific and a dream career for most but with her raw tennis talent, she could have been THE best!

Great job predicting something that will never be tested (i.e. Serena's reaction to attempted murder being much better than Monica's). :rolleyes:

Mired in self pity?! Are you really that fucking clueless and insensitve? She wasn't sitting home moaning over some boyfriend breaking up with her!! She was trying to figure out how to overcome the fear of stepping out on a court again without reliving the horror.

And we fans don't have to "get over it"...it's our loss too. I was watching that match. I waited two and half years for Monica to play again, while I watched other players rack up titles that she probably would have owned. I cheered her courage when (after everything else she'd been through) she played the Roland Garros with her dead father's wedding ring around her neck. YOU have no right whatsoever to tell me or anyone else to "get over it"...you don't walk in my shoes.

Furthermore, Monica is already recognized as one of the greatest players of all time by most. The majority of the tennis community have enough sense to recognize that her accomplishments far and away exceed the number of titles (Grand Slam or otherwise) that will be listed after her name in the Hall of Fame. Something that you clearly fail to grasp.

Finally, there is nothing at all sad about the fact that this extraordinary woman (who I am honored to call my friend) is still out on tennis courts doing what she loves.

ys
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:30 PM
Fuck the personal trainer, nutritionist,

That's actually not the worst possible method of getting fit..

Aloysius
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:30 PM
I don't understand how the stabbing and family deaths can effect Monica getting fit again if she's still able to pick up a tennis racquet and play despite all that.

irma
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:37 PM
maybe she doesn't want to be the best anymore and is happy to be number 3 or 4.
she was "punished" very bad when she was the best, how would you feel about that?
I am not sure this is the case but it might be! I can imagine it!

Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:38 PM
Kart - That's a totally mature and reasonable response. I hope toward the end of Venus's career I have the same attitude.

mishar
Jul 14th, 2002, 11:48 PM
Funny about Monica. On this board we read that:

-- her two-handed shots limit her reach (true enough)

-- she has a relatively weak and awkward net game (fairly true)

-- her serve is not in the same class as the Williams (undeniable)

-- she is not as mentally strong as she used to be

-- she is not committed, not serious, lacks the old will to win

-- she makes too many unforced errors

-- she is unfit, moves terribly, is fat, etc..


And yet she's still #4 in the world! Amazing.

ktwtennis
Jul 15th, 2002, 12:40 AM
Hey mishar, how about posting the positive things about Monica? So far we've also learned that:
-She's a true figher--coming back from many adversities.

-She's one of the most talented hitters of the ball.

-She's the arguably best player ever.

-She's a very nice person.

-She introduced power and all-out aggression off both sides.

mishar
Jul 15th, 2002, 03:57 AM
Thank you Kwtennis. That was really my point. There are so many negative criticisms of Monica always, all the things she's lacking in, people don't seem to acknowledge that she must be doing something right. After all, she's won 39 matches this year -- second only to Venus Williams in # of matches won in 2002

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 04:51 AM
nysaga - Incidentally, it's a lot easier to get in shape when you're away from competition. Sleep at home, eat all the right foods, your personal doctor and trainer and nutritionist are there. Remember, Monica came back last summer in much better shape than she's in now. She missed all of 2001 clay season, but when she got back, she was healthy and in better shape. She been playing all she can since then. On the road, not always the best food, strange beds, travel can be stressful, yada, yada, yada, yada ....

nysaga
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by Volcana
nysaga - Incidentally, it's a lot easier to get in shape when you're away from competition. Sleep at home, eat all the right foods, your personal doctor and trainer and nutritionist are there. Remember, Monica came back last summer in much better shape than she's in now. She missed all of 2001 clay season, but when she got back, she was healthy and in better shape. She been playing all she can since then. On the road, not always the best food, strange beds, travel can be stressful, yada, yada, yada, yada ....

I don't buy any of that. Monica has said that she loves to practice on the court but doesn't like to work out in the gym. That's just too bad. You need more than tennis talent these days to win GS and unfortunately Monica hasn't learned that.

Dawn Marie
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:15 AM
Jakeev, I disagree with your last statement. I do think the only thing missing from her game is that extra step. When I say she could get fitter I don't mean she is slow and fat right now.( like so many idiots claim her to be) I just think if she were in the best possible shape that she could be in, that she would perform better at the slams and Tier1 tourneys. With her hitting with two hands off each side and her getting a bit older, it is getting hard for her to reach some of these powerful shots deep in the corners. I just think that if she improved her fitness like Jennnifer did that she could beat the top players in major slams. Jakeev I think one thing Monica doesn't lack is INTENSITY. I mean everytime she is waiting on a return you can see it in her eyes. She just wants to kick the tennis ball on it's lil ass. LOL

disposablehero
Jul 15th, 2002, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by nysaga
Serena would be strong and come back and prove everyone wrong. She won't be mired in self pity like Monica did. Sure, Monica faced a huge injustice but she has had plenty of time to get over it. I'm tired of some fans using it as an excuse 10 years after the fact. GET OVER IT.

But this is Monica's career. If she doesn't want to be remember as one of the greatest of all time...so be it. It's just sad to see the talent go to waste. Sure, 9 Glandslams and 54 singles titles is terrific and a dream career for most but with her raw tennis talent, she could have been THE best!

Hand me a knife and stand still for a second. I want to see how well you "get over" something.

You may be high, mighty, and all-knowing now, but you would quickly realize what a naive, arrogant fool you were if it happened to you.

Now suppose your friend George Dubya had taken a little different approach to 9/11? "Lets not get involved in Afghanistan. We should leave Osama alone, I'm pretty sure he has gotten the issue that was bothering him out of his system now."

Beige
Jul 15th, 2002, 12:22 PM
There is absolutely no reason why Seles has NOT won more Slams since returning to the tour.[b/]

Without question on this board and in the tennis world, Monica Seles is in the top ten of best female players of all time. So, with all her natural gifts, mental toughness and Grand Slam pedigree [b]why hasn't she won a Slam since the '96 Australian?! She lost tight GS finals to Steffi (US Open '96) and ASV (FO '98) but hasn't really been a factor since, despite a few semifinal appearances. In my humble opinon, this is unacceptable for the greatest active player on the tour! Weight and conditioning are the common reasons but has she done anything to improve her fitness since coming back? Not really. She's coasted on her natural gifts and won some titles along the way but no Slams where conditioning counts most. With all her money you'd think she'd be motivated to find a personal trainer who would get her in the best shape possible and a nutritionist who would help her with dieting (she's admitted to binging). Sorry to the Seles fans but I'm being extra critical because Monica Seles is Monica Seles.

RAA
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think its her fitness. Lately she has been one or two shots winner her semifinal or quarterfinal GS match. She gets to the ball, lines up the shot - and hits it into the net or out.
I really felt like she could have won that match vs. Henin at Wimby. There were a few points where she could have put the ball away, and she missed those shots. I've seen this much more from her lately than early in her career.

I think that every player has sort of one thing that is their main weakness. Serena sometimes overhits and makes UEs, Venus's forehand goes off, Jen's serve goes off. Seles can't get to a few balls here and there. but rarely do those things, in an of themselves, cause those players to lose matches. Most of the time the top players can win despite their one achilles heel. And that is true of Monica - for the most part, her "fitness" is not an issue. but in tight matches, she misses a few big hits here and there, and then those points she misses because she is one step slower are MUCH more important.

PamShriver
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:34 PM
I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head. I really don't think that Monica wants to be the number one player anymore. I just finished reading her book not too long ago and in the interview transcripts with Parche he continually says over and over again how he wanted to punish Monica for her results over the three previous years (90-93) and how he wanted to teach her a lesson for being number one. I don't care who you are reading something that a person who attempted to take your life has said is going to have a psychological effect whether you are conscious of it or not.

Most important of all, Monica is NOT the same player mentally that she was before the stabbing. She was the most ferocious competitor in the history of the sport. Big points were her bread and butter. Just look at her GS results pre-stabbing, TONS of matches that she ground out in three sets. I think that the U.S. Open '92 was the only GS that she coasted through. She was a steely competitor who loved the pressure. Now, not so much. Look at all the critical 3 setters she's lost since '96. Too many to count, and it's not because of her physical it's the mental.

I prefer to look at the Monica pre and post stabbing as two different players, after all, they do look completely different and their results are quite different as well. Monica could play another ten years and ultimately she would be looke upon as one of the all time greats. Why? She won all three GS's she entered in '91. Won 3 of 4 she entered in '92 and made the final of the other. Add to that a French title (the youngest ever) and an Aussie title in '90 and '93 respectively and you've got your answer. Few players have so dominated the sport over a two-three year period as she did in the early '90's.

History shows that in the end people remember the best of a player not the worst. Do many people ever talk about the years '85-94 when John McEnroe was actively playing on tour and made one GS Final and did not win? Nope, they remember the four U.S. Opens and three Wimbledons and the epic '80 Wimby final with Borg. Nobody cares or remembers when he was just a mediocre tour player, who refused to get into the kind of shape he needed to beat the top guys.

Tennisfan**
Jul 15th, 2002, 11:44 PM
well if we are comparing the fitness and the differences of both during their careers id like to point out that davenport was "less fit" in say 94/95 and after winning the olympics this is when she really started to work on her fitness and winning the slams that she has and reaching #1 for the first time are credit to her and the way in which she decided to and did turn her career around. Monica however is an entirely different situation. She HAD BEEN #1 and won 8 SLAMS! before the well documented events. plus those events plus her father passing and suffering from the phycological effects that they had on her affected her personally and subsequently her tennis. Therefore on her return she did not feel the same urgency to be the absolute best or better than she could be because she had achieved it. Davenport had not. Monica was as she has said many times before that she is happy just to play and loves the sport. if she trained at 100% she would only have more injuries and enjoy it less. she is 28, on e of the best ever players in history with her record as it stands without the "if onlys" Plus at 28 it is perfectly natural for someone to be at the pinical of their physical fitness as they were say 10 years ago! lets just let both lindsay and monica enjoy the rest of their careers, it is their lives after all.

Bright Red
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:15 AM
I hate bringing up the stabbing, but I must. Monica really is an exceptional person to have come back from it--both mentally and physically. That was a horrible, horrible thing that no one deserves. By merely being on the tour is a testament to her strength and dedication.

I think that in everyone's mind, we wonder not only what could have been, but also what is still possible for Monica. That's why we look at Monica and ask how can she be better. For example, how much better could she be if she were slimmer. That's a valid question, don't you think? No one should be upset with someone for asking.

IMO, post-stabbing Monica is a great talent and champion, and she's achieved more since the stabbing than most of the other players could ever hope to achieve. I wish she'd slim down some more, but only if it results in even better performance on court.

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:16 AM
I dont know. Maybe she likes food too much.

R. DIS
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by anton
I dont know. Maybe she likes food too much.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

anton
Jul 16th, 2002, 03:43 AM
I'm serious. I recently stopped drinking chocalate milk, koolaid and eating junk food, meat and fatty foods. You have to make a commitment and Monica has not.