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View Full Version : who has the best chance of beating the Williams?


Vincent
Jul 13th, 2002, 03:45 PM
No deubt, it is.....
Martina Hingis

katrientje
Jul 13th, 2002, 03:48 PM
I think MArtina and Justine have a chance, because they play a different game. When your weapon is power, you cannot challenge the sisters IMO (unless they have a bad day)

ßcoene
Jul 13th, 2002, 04:24 PM
Justine Henin.
A healthy Clijsters.
A healthy Davenport.

Jarrett
Jul 13th, 2002, 04:26 PM
Davenport and Seles EOM

venusfan
Jul 13th, 2002, 04:35 PM
Davenport and Ms Manners...

Hingis is an afterthought right now. Henin, I give more chances than Hingis because she can hit well for a couple of games but she's too inconsistent and dies off halfway through the 1st set if she cant get control of the match...

Clijsters, I think she is too involved right now with Hewitt... It wouldn't suprise me if she's pregnant and calling it quits to Marry Hewitt.

Elleke
Jul 13th, 2002, 04:47 PM
juju, clijsters when she has a good day and without that arm injury, davenport

selesrules
Jul 13th, 2002, 04:51 PM
Definitely not Justine Henin. She gets overpowered and her one hand backhand doesn't help.

I would say:

Martina Hingis: because she's consistant and she can force her opponents into error. But she has to be serving well.

Monica Seles: because she's Monica Seles.

Kim Clijsters: because she's very fast and she also has power. But these days she's not playing well.

TeeRexx
Jul 13th, 2002, 04:55 PM
Ans: No one really. :)

GATORSHORT
Jul 13th, 2002, 05:01 PM
None of these players will beat Serena consistily,maybe a win here and there .

treufreund
Jul 13th, 2002, 05:13 PM
Agree with GATORSHORT about beating Serena consistently but that was not really the question. Venus, on the other hand, does not seem as tough as the past two years. I think it's important to differentiate a bit between S and V since they are two different players with two different years so far.

DD
Jul 13th, 2002, 05:22 PM
imho Capriatti and lindsay

there is no way martina is gonna beat the williamses.

maybe a win here or there but the williams should have a bad day for that to happen.

They will both beat her in straight sets. i dont see martina winning more than 5 games against serena if she is healthy.
she can compete a little bit with venus. they use to have great matches but it is in the past.

Lindsayfan
Jul 13th, 2002, 06:13 PM
there arent players unbeatable,there are just periods where some players dominate but domination isnt for ever,nothing is eternal!So sooner or later will arrive someone who'll beat Williamses,maybe Lindsay or Jenn maybe a newcomer..we never know what happens! ;)

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 13th, 2002, 06:16 PM
John McEnroe ;) j/k

ys
Jul 13th, 2002, 06:28 PM
This year? Unless they have a let down - nobody on hardcourts. Hingis and Davenport - indoors.

LucasArg
Jul 13th, 2002, 07:15 PM
Maybe Jenn.... But I really can't see them losing:wavey:

Infiniti2001
Jul 13th, 2002, 07:28 PM
I agree with you ys, although I am not sure about Hingis against Venus indoors... They've played 3 indoor matches with Venus leading 2-1 (1-1 carpet and the other on hardcourt). Lindsay on the otherhand owns Venus indoors (4-1)...

Lindsay and Serena are tied at 1-1 --- Serena and Hingis are yet to play .. Infact Serena's indoor record in nothing to shout about :P

Sean
Jul 13th, 2002, 07:40 PM
Who has the best chance of beating the Williams?

Ferarri - and there doing a very good job of it.

TheBoiledEgg
Jul 13th, 2002, 07:47 PM
LOL@Sean but so true ;)

Williams Rulez
Jul 14th, 2002, 02:57 AM
lol Sean...

Well, maybe Henin or Jennifer over Serena, but only because their recent matches with Serena have been very tight... but I doubt that it would happen cause the hardcourt season is coming.

As for Venus, I don't know... the only person consistently beating her this year is Serena... so I'm not sure... :p

Crazy Canuck
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:03 AM
I love seeing you all write off Martina Hingis.

While I dont think she will be able to compete with them much this year, as it remains to be seen when she is coming back...

To hear that she is an after thought is just ridiculous.

So easy to kick them while they are down, eh?

RockSteady
Jul 14th, 2002, 03:59 AM
You have to remember, Rebecca, most people here are new to women's tennis, and have only seen 2001, when Hingis had the worst season of her life, and this year, when Martina was injured and recovering from an injury at the same time.

They simply don't recall Hingis at her prime, when she would hit balls back against Venus that were clearly going long (because it didn't matter, Martina was giving her such a beating anyway). :) Hopefully Hingis will show her old form (which she had this year before the choke-fest at Australia). This lay-off will help her get back to basics.

And to answer the question, Hingis is NOT the answer because she won't be playing for a while. Not Lindsay. I think Jen will beat VENUS this hard court season, because I think they are around the same level. I think that a healthy Clijsters could beat both, because she is as fast and powerful, if a little less consistent.

Other than that, any wins over the Williams sisters, especially Serena, will be hard to imagine or predict.

brickhousesupporter
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:01 AM
I think any of the top five on their games can gain a win over the Williams Sisters. They would definitely have to play to the top of their game for the whole match, and Venus or Serena would have to be off.

Messenger
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:09 AM
They simply don't recall Hingis at her prime, when she would hit balls back against Venus that were clearly going long
Haha. I miss Ms. Hingis' cheek.

RockSteady
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:11 AM
Yes, she used to be more carefree on the court, always laughing, playing mind games, toying with her opponents like a shark, or serving-and-volleying on set/match points.

But since that fateful French Open, she's been decidedly more reserved. Too bad.

Volcana
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:13 AM
When you're on top, you have opinions about those with less ability. When you're not on top anymore, it's easy to believe that those on top have the same types of opinions of you that you expressed about them.

In other words, Martina has to think on some level that players ranked above her are saying and thinking the same things about her she said about them. Now, only Martina really knows what she's actually said. I pass no judgement on that (in THIS thread).

If, when you were #1, you treated everyone else like they were #1 too, when you're NOT #1, you often are treated with respect and affection.

If, when you were #1, you treated everyone else like they were somehow not as good as you, when you're NOT #1, it's no great surprise if people have little or no respect for you.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:32 AM
Funny how when martina acted like a first class egotiscal B*tch people call it "cheek" or they call her bad behavior "mind games" but when other players behave in a similar fashion it's arrogant.

funny how that works.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:37 AM
Why do people forget that when Hingis was thrashing venus way back in 97 and 98, that those were the first two years venus ever had on tour. she never played juniors. she didnt have the match experience of martina and her game was still raw and developing.

Hingis' downfall came about because while her game stayed the same at a very high level, the other players like serena, venus, and jen got better! Their game evolved and developed and they gained (serena and venus) more experience and the tide began to turn.

with one more major venus will tie hingis with five grandslams, then ask yourself who has the potential to win more grandslams? Seems to me that in the long run someone is looking like more of a frontrunner for best player between the two.

Everyone talks about consistency being important, which is true, but not just consistency over a year but an entire career.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:40 AM
Who knows about martina, really? I mean didn't her own doctor write her off by saying she had a career ending injury? We won't know for sure until she gets back on the court. An injury is never a laughing matter and hopefully she'll come back as strong as ever, if not I'm sure we will all go on because tennis sure will.

Amanda
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:44 AM
....too bad for Martina. I don't think she'll ever reach the level of the new and improved Williams Sisters. Then again, she may come back as a bulked up power player. We'll just have to wait and see. Her "old school" way of tennis will not survive in today's game.

jomar
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:46 AM
http://media.hingis.org/uploads/post-5-56398-109_hingis.itgo.com.jpg

the one and only.;)

R. DIS
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:59 AM
Hingis does not have the power to stay with Venus or Serena. They would have to be totally off for her even to have a chance (Scottsdale SF).

I see Jen beating them both this summer and then again to win the US Open

Couver
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:07 AM
Well I don't think Hingis is being written of. I don't write her off cause she always has great matches with Venus & Serena especially Venus.

I think people like RockSteady said. See that she is injured and before the injury she was struggling against the Big Babes.

But with injury and declining play people write you off. I still laugh at how much people wrote off Serena last year due to her not so good play, and then again when she was off during the OZ open. It happens.

I actually think Martina can be a huge threat to all the girls since, bascially her Venus & Serena, Lindsay, & Jennifer are the best in women's tennis right now.

The only thing I think she needs is confidence. Which she would get IMO by getting a win over Jennifer.

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:20 AM
If, when you were #1, you treated everyone else like they were somehow not as good as you, when you're NOT #1, it's no great surprise if people have little or no respect for you.


Thank you!!!
Since OZ 2001 which was 18 months ago, Venus has beaten her twice in straight sets, and she is 0-3 against Serena...
Forget the Williames, apart from her 3 wins over Kim#4 and twice over Monica #10 this year , when was the last time she had a BIG win over a Top 10er??

Do people honestly think with the way she was playing for the last how many months, that she can come back off a debilitating injury and beat Venus and her sister consistently?? That's almost as loopy as announcing that Alexandra Stevenson or Anna Kournikova could do so.

Face it, she had some wonderful results when she was the "supposed" best player in the world , but those are in the past--- it's a faster more athletic game now--- Call stupid or whatever , but I just don't see her coming back to give anyone trouble.:cool:

conchita
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:27 AM
CONCHITA OF COURSE-they can't handle her slices and top spin lobs!

HINGIS AND DOKIC ALSO!

BrianII
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:55 AM
When exactly was this prime of martina hingis actually I did not start watching tennis in 2001 and find it hard to recall this prime ...as I remember it Martina was 3-0 against Venus in '97 ..Venus highest rank as of any of those matches was 66 (maybe 67) in the world US Open..... hardly impressive if the no1 player in the world can beat the 67th or greater player
in world.
In '98 Martina was 3-2 against Venus ....Venus beat her twice when she was not yet a top 10 player ..Something by the way martina could never do against steffi, from whom she took the no1, in fact she was hard pushed to beat steffi at any point in time.
In '99 they went 3-3
In 2000 venus was 2-0
In 2001 they were 1-1
and 2002 venus is 1-0
The only time hingis could easily beat Venus was when Venus was not yet a top 65 player ...is that what we are supposed to be impressed about ....whats the use having watched womens tennis prior to 2001 if you are delusional anyway.

Williams Rulez
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:28 AM
Well said Brian... :)

Alan
Jul 14th, 2002, 07:41 AM
STEFFI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 04:55 PM
The only time hingis could easily beat Venus was when Venus was not yet a top 65 player ...is that what we are supposed to be impressed about ....whats the use having watched womens tennis prior to 2001 if you are delusional anyway.

You tell 'em Brian:kiss:

laj
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:08 PM
The two players who have the best chances of beating Venus and Serena are Venus and Serena. Let's face it folks, they lose only when they beat themselves by committing too many Unforced Errors out of proportion to the amount of Winners they make.

kevijntje
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:14 PM
ggggggrrrrrrrrrrr:mad: :mad: :mad: i hate it : a final like a sister act , i hope that kim , juju or jelena or jenny beat the hell out of them

essielewis
Jul 14th, 2002, 05:31 PM
Great posts Brian and Volcana.:kiss: Telling it like it truly is might be hurtful for the Hingis fans but that's life!!!

Do people honestly think with the way she was playing for the last how many months, that she can come back off a debilitating injury and beat Venus and her sister consistently?? That's almost as loopy as announcing that Alexandra Stevenson or Anna Kournikova could do so.

Pretty loopy, indeed. I've always said that a comeback by Hingis, though it will be welcome, will mean nothing to Venus and Serena. Hingis has done nothing against either of them (or anybody else, really) since very early last year. To think she can come back and make a run for the top is delusional. Her game hasn't changed and everybody else has moved on to a higher level.

It has always been my opinion that the only reason Hingis got to #1 in the first place is because Steffi was injured and out for a long time; Lindsay was in terrible shape; Monica was STILL recovering and Venus and Serena were still perfecting their games on the main circuit because they hadn't played juniors. Hingis slipped in there and won 5 Slams. Even though she is a very smart player and moves well, she has never had a decent serve or any power to speak of. It was just a matter of time before someone came along and dethroned her. She only stayed #1 as long as she did because of all the tournaments she played.

Hingis will never make it back to the top. She will make the top 10, I'm sure because she has talent, but never the top 5.

RockSteady
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:19 PM
The funny thing about the Venus/Martina rivalry is that when Hingis was at her peak in 97/98, Venus would crash out early and not get chances to play her, and Venus hardly played any tournaments in the first place.

Imagine what their head to head would be if that weren't the case! :eek: I'd feel bad for Venus!

"Funny how when martina acted like a first class egotiscal B*tch people call it "cheek" or they call her bad behavior "mind games" but when other players behave in a similar fashion it's arrogant."

No one ever said Hingis wasn't arrogant. She was! But that's what many liked about her, she was an egotistical bitch and she didn't care what anyone else thought. Such additude attracts many people to her, out of like or dislike

"Why do people forget that when Hingis was thrashing venus way back in 97 and 98, that those were the first two years venus ever had on tour. she never played juniors. she didnt have the match experience of martina and her game was still raw and developing."

Not only were they the same age, but Venus was and is still taller, faster, stronger, with more weapons. It's ironic that she would get beaten so bad and only manages to scrape past Martina in the last year or two, when she has been injured, slow, recovering, and a headcase.

"with one more major venus will tie hingis with five grandslams, then ask yourself who has the potential to win more grandslams? Seems to me that in the long run someone is looking like more of a frontrunner for best player between the two."

Please, it would take a miracle for Venus Williams' career to suprass Hingis'! Not only does Hingis have more Grand Slam titles and more GS finals and semifinals and quarterfinals, she has many more tournament wins, more Tier I tournament wins, 9 doubles Slams (tons more than Venus), a winning head-to-head, and hundreds of weeks at #1 that Venus will never catch up to.

Not to mention Hingis' astonishing junior career that Venus will never had, and all of the age records Martina holds that Venus can never break.

Now, someone said that Hingis will never be a top five player and that she hasn't beaten any top players this year. Last year was a bad year for her, but before her injury this year, she was doing great, having a high winning percentage and the most rankings points ffrom the begginning of the year. She beat Clijsters, Testud, Seles (lol, how is Venus doing against them this year?), Shaughnessy, Coetzer, and Hantuchova, and match point against Jennifer. Not too bad, is it? Don't blame her if the top players aren't reaching the finals that she is.

About her never again being a top 5 player, 2001 was her worst year ever and she was still #1. She only lost it when she got injured. Again, this year, she had the most rankings points before she got injured. Coupled with the fact that no top player is playing that often, and I garuntee that not only will she be a top 5 player, but she will be #1 again. All the stats point in that direction.

Infiniti2001
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:37 PM
"Some" folk here just can't seem to appreciate their fav. without disparaging comments leveled at Venus Williams :rolleyes: Pathetic you would even mention this because it makes Martina seem even more past her prime. Yeah, yeah, we know all about "before her 21st birthday....yada yada yada..." But to toss around her achievements now has about as much meaning as tossing around those of Margaret Court. Face it: Hingis WAS the hollowing #1 in history and the more you gloat the more you remind everyone just HOW hollow. She's done and you can quote me on that :P

Raj
Jul 14th, 2002, 06:46 PM
well put ROCKSTEADY!

QueenO
Jul 14th, 2002, 09:19 PM
Hingis who......

Williams Rulez
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:56 AM
Wow... he has nothing to say anymore does he? He is even bringing in Martina's junior career... does anyone care about that? :rolleyes:

Rocksteady, Venus was ranked 65 and below when Martina won her first few meetings... was that unexpected? It is called lack of match experience. Venus had not played juniors or many pro-tournies, was that outcome unexpected? If that were the case, you might as well say that Mary shouldn't have double bagelled Martina, it should be the other way around... :rolleyes:

You can post all you want about Martina this and that, and how lousy Venus is. But right now, Martina is out with a very serious injury. Venus has all the time in the world to surpass what Martina has achieved, believe it or not... it is possible.

Julian
Jul 15th, 2002, 02:20 PM
Martina Hingis and Lindsay Davenport (when they're healthy)
Justine Henin

And some of you might laugh at me, but I think Arantxa has one of the best chances as well...just look at her head to head record against the Williams' :)

Infiniti2001
Jul 15th, 2002, 02:33 PM
What about her head to head record against the Williames Julian? Sure some of the matches were close, but Venus leads 6-3 and Serena trails 3-4... Nothing to shout about if you asked me

Venus Williams (USA) vs. Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP)
1994-10-31 Oakland Indoor Carpet R16 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 2-6 6-3 6-0
1998-01-12 Sydney Hardcourt F Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 6-1 6-3
1998-05-04 Rome Clay SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 2-6 7-5
1998-08-31 U.S. Open Hardcourt QF Venus Williams (USA) 2-6 6-1 6-1
1998-09-28 Munich Indoor Carpet QF Venus Williams (USA) 6-3 6-2
1999-04-26 Hamburg Clay SF Venus Williams (USA) 6-1 6-3
2000-05-29 Roland Garros Clay QF Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 6-0 1-6 6-2
2000-09-18 The Olympics Hardcourt QF Venus Williams (USA) 3-6 6-2 6-4
2002-04-29 Hamburg Clay QF Venus Williams (USA) 3-6 6-4 6-1
Venus Williams (USA) leads 6:3
Hard: Venus Williams (USA) leads 2:1
Clay: Venus Williams (USA) leads 3:1
Grass: Tied 0:0
Indoor: Tied 1:1



Serena Williams (USA) vs. Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP)
1998-01-12 Sydney Hardcourt SF Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 6-2 6-1
1998-05-25 Roland Garros Clay R16 Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 4-6 7-5 6-3
1998-06-15 Eastbourne Grass QF Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 4-6 6-4 6-4
1999-05-10 Berlin Clay QF Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) 6-3 3-2 ret
1999-08-09 Los Angeles Hardcourt QF Serena Williams (USA) 6-2 6-3
1999-09-27 Munich Indoor Carpet QF Serena Williams (USA) 6-3 6-1
2000-08-14 Montreal Hardcourt SF Serena Williams (USA) 6-2 6-4
Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) leads 4:3
Hard: Serena Williams (USA) leads 2:1
Clay: Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) leads 2:0
Grass: Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (ESP) leads 1:0
Indoor: Serena Williams (USA) leads 1:0

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 04:32 PM
! Not only does Hingis have more Grand Slam titles and more GS finals and semifinals and quarterfinals, she has many more tournament wins, more Tier I tournament wins, 9 doubles Slams (tons more than Venus), a winning head-to-head, and hundreds of weeks at #1 that Venus will never catch up to.

When all is said and done, the player with the most GS singles titles will be considered the greater. Right now, odds favor Venus being that player. Martina hasn't added to her GS totlal in quite a while.

RockSteady
Jul 15th, 2002, 05:53 PM
"When all is said and done, the player with the most GS singles titles will be considered the greater."

Yes, it's easy to say that BS when your fave's accomplishments pale in comparison to her rival. :p Any idiot could tell you that as impressive as Sampras' titles were, Bjorn Borg was a better, more dominant player for the very short time span he played, and unless your name begins with a Werth you'd know who was the greater. And Chris Evert is close or equal to Navirtalova in GS titles, but Navirtalova's extensive doubles career and winning head-to-head dismiss any questions of who is better.

And as lovely a career as Venus had, most consider Lindsay's numerous titles, winning record, and three *different* Grand Slam titles give her the slight advantage over Venus, even Werthless himself.

Amanda
Jul 15th, 2002, 06:50 PM
Fact: In RECENT years, Venus and Serena have placed themselves miles apart from Martina. The improvement of their game along with their strength has Martina searching for ways to catch up to them again. With Martina's injury, I believe it will extremely difficult for her to surpass the new and improved Venus and Serena. I also believe that Martina will difficulty keeping up with any of the top players. Martina's old school game is just not compatable with today's game. Even the "little" girls are incorporating power and strength techniques into their game plans...just ask any expert out there.

Volcana
Jul 15th, 2002, 07:16 PM
RockSteady - It's easy for you to write that BS when your fave's GAME pales in comparison to her rival.

GATORSHORT
Jul 15th, 2002, 10:01 PM
Hey rockhead i see you bring criticism own yourself all the time with your name calling and put downs ,instead of arguing about the facts. The fact is your girl has lost a step and is having trouble keeping up. you should learn to control yourself a little better.