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GogoGirl
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:20 PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,4687013%255E2771,00.html


Women's tennis 'riddled with drugs'

By KATRINA BEIKOFF

12jul02

WOMEN'S tennis is riddled with performance enhancing drugs and tennis officials are protecting their superstars by refusing to acknowledge there is a problem, Australia's chief anti-doping officer claimed yesterday.

The explosive comments, just days after the Wimbledon finals, come as figures show the claims of mass testing of tennis players are deceiving.
Fewer than 50 tests were carried out on international female tennis players in the past year – and none were surprise no-notice screens.

Australian Sports Drug Agency chief John Mendoza said women's tennis was potentially as drug tainted as the Chinese female swimmers who caused a sensation in the early 1990s.

"Only someone in denial would think women's tennis is clean," Mendoza said.

"The physiques are bizarre, like the Chinese swimmers were. What we saw in swimming with the Chinese is akin to what we're seeing in tennis. You do not become like that by working out in the gym."

Mendoza did not accuse any specific players but said tennis – both men's and women's – faced a potential drug problem as significant as cycling before the sport began a systematic testing regime to clean up the doping culture after 1997.

"What happened with both of those sports (swimming and cycling) was that they refused to implement an effective out-of-competition testing program," he said.

"FINA was forced to move and has got on top of the problem while cycling is getting there but still needs to improve."

Cycling's premier road event, the Tour de France, was rocked by one of the biggest doping scandals ever in 1998 with the entire Festina team thrown off the Tour, some of its riders banned and its director and a medical team member copping suspended jail sentences.

Italy's best three riders, Marco Pantani, Stefano Garzelli and Gilberto Simoni, have since been banned from cycling in subsequent doping scandals.

There have been 10 Chinese swimmers, including Yuan Yuan who was caught before the 1998 World Championships in Perth and banned for four years for trafficking human growth hormone, and one Chinese swim coach banned for doping offences since 1993.

International Tennis Federation (ITF) executive director Debbie Jevans said 700 tennis players were tested last year, with top male players tested on average seven times.

ITF spends $1 million on drug tests each year with 8000 tests carried out for just seven positives over the past seven years when anti-doping screens were first introduced to the sport, Jevans said.

The ITF also announced at Wimbledon they were likely to introduce blood screening for the endurance-boosting drug EPO before the Australian Open in January.

But last year only 50 of the 700 tests were out-of-competition screens, and none of those 50 were on female tennis players.

Mendoza said the large numbers of tests did not prove doping was not rife.

Tests would not stop doping if the screens were done during competition or by giving the athlete plenty of warning.

"Tennis is being dominated by a group of women who are not what they appear to be. They are not real," he said.

"The signs of substance abuse among leading players are self evident. The dynamics of the game have changed. Tennis officials are refusing to accept they have a problem."

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:29 PM
This guy must be fat and bald and has never been to a gym in his life. How sad. Maybe there is a problem in the sport but to say that you do not look that way by training in a gym is crazy.

RAA
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:33 PM
Well, as much as I don't like to think it, drugs are used in many many sports, so its difficult to believe that its not going on in tennis too...

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:39 PM
why doesn't he name names, hypocrite :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:48 PM
"The physiques are bizarre, like the Chinese swimmers were. What we saw in swimming with the Chinese is akin to what we're seeing in tennis. You do not become like that by working out in the gym."

Wow, I have no clue what he's talking about here? I think he is a nut. I wonder who in his mind has a bizarre physique? Bizarre compared to who?

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:50 PM
OK kidds, let the shit slinging begin...

ys
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:50 PM
I think it *is* obvious whom he means..:)

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:51 PM
Yes very obvious...all the Russians...:wavey:

RAA
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:52 PM
he doesn't name names because he could get his ass sued for slander or some such thing...

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Rocketta
"The physiques are bizarre, like the Chinese swimmers were. What we saw in swimming with the Chinese is akin to what we're seeing in tennis. You do not become like that by working out in the gym."

Wow, I have no clue what he's talking about here? I think he is a nut. I wonder who in his mind has a bizarre physique? Bizarre compared to who?


Without that part the acticle was good. There's nothing bizarre with their physiques and there weren't anything bizarre with Chinese's either.


"Fewer than 50 tests were carried out on international female tennis players in the past year – and none were surprise no-notice screens."


This proves it's really f**ked up business.

hantuchova_rulez
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:01 PM
"The signs of substance abuse among leading players are self evident. The dynamics of the game have changed. Tennis officials are refusing to accept they have a problem."

Bit of a nutcase it seems. If these statements are even taken note of seriously, it's pretty damaging to the whole sport.

I do think that there should be more tests, and surprise ones at that too, without notice, then cheats could be captured. There's no point waiting until there is a scandal but try and prevent it in the first place with strict testing.

TSequoia01
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:02 PM
Where is the proof? Anyone can say anything but where is the evidence? :confused:

selesfan
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:04 PM
Its amazing that all this is coming out now with a certain sister duo at the top 2 spots.:rolleyes:

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by TSequoia01
Where is the proof? Anyone can say anything but where is the evidence? :confused:


You talk like the former East-German officials when everyone was accusing their athletes of drug use. :D

ys
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:10 PM
Well, the things were obviously not the same two years ago. I would imagine that all players who played in Sydney Olympics were clean by then, because I think that IOC would certainly test most of players and would care little about stardom of tennis players. But since then the detection tecniques improved so some of substnaces might not yet been on banned list back then and might be there now. Besides, almost no top players will play the next Olympics so that would give them sort of carte blanche..

TSequoia01
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by CappyMania



You talk like the former East-German officials when everyone was accusing their athletes of drug use. :D

I say either put up or Shut Up! Just tired of idiots speculating with no proof. He is entitled to his opinion but just don't state it as fact. Say in my opinion, I feel this is the way it is. That way we can classify it as Bull Spit right off the bat. :cool:

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by TSequoia01


I say either put up or Shut Up! Just tired of idiots speculating with no proof. He is entitled to his opinion but just don't state it as fact. Say in my opinion, I feel this is the way it is. That way we can classify it as Bull Spit right off the bat. :cool:


Why would someone speculate if there would not be any reason for it? I'm sorry but guys like you are the reason why everything is f**ked up in professional sport.

If there's smoke, there's fire too.

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:28 PM
There were speculations also in swimming and cycling before their drug scandals.....

Flappie
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:31 PM
I think he´s right.

Some players look BIZARRE!:p

villa
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:32 PM
If he's talking about top 10 players theirs only 3 who are particularly muscular:

Serena williams
Jen cap
muresmo

Now as far as iam concerned all 3 of these have always had large muscular frames. i have seen pics of jen and serena when they were younger and they both had distingushed large frames and could have easily gotten their muscles from work in the gym......so he's chatting bollocks, you can look like that with work in the gym.

G-Ha
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:32 PM
Actually, the Chinese swimmers' physiques were pretty bizarre. There was never a doubt that they were on performance enhancing drugs, and they finally got caught.

Currently there isn't any female player's physique I would label "bizarre". And at any rate, heavy muscle mass isn't usually the goal for tennis players because it limits mobility and flexibility. I do belive, however, that drugs are probably an issue in tennis just as it is in about every other sport. I doubt that steroids are the substance of choice; I'm more inclined to think it's endurance enhancers (as the author mentioned) and stimulants that are likely abused.

I know some of us like to think things only happen to Venus and Serena, but you better believe there were calls for testing when Martina Navratilova was on top. In fact, it was pretty extreme with some even wanting hormonal/chromosomal testing performed to weed out any players that weren't 100% female!:eek: Luckily, that never happened.

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by G-Ha
Actually, the Chinese swimmers' physiques were pretty bizarre. There was never a doubt that they were on performance enhancing drugs, and they finally got caught.

Actually they were NOT! Only Jingyi Le had really muscular figure that was unusual in swimming. Btw, she looked smaller than Serena.

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by villa
If he's talking about top 10 players theirs only 3 who are particularly muscular:

Serena williams
Jen cap
muresmo

Now as far as iam concerned all 3 of these have always had large muscular frames. i have seen pics of jen and serena when they were younger and they both had distingushed large frames and could have easily gotten their muscles from work in the gym......so he's chatting bollocks, you can look like that with work in the gym.


It's not about the muscles!!!!!!!! :mad: Anna Kournikova could be the only player who's on steroids!!!!

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:44 PM
well there was this woman in east germany who got much drugs when she was a kid that she totally changed in a man and had sexchange in the end.
and this is no mythe, I have seen him in a tvprogramm!

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by irma
well there was this woman in east germany who got much drugs when she was a kid that she totally changed in a man and had sexchange in the end.
and this is no mythe, I have seen him in a tvprogramm!


I did see the document! Sad, sad, sad!

Keith
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:14 PM
I think the article just says that the testing schedule for drugs is very um, lacking. One guy says there must be drugs going on, but the fact is that only 50 tennis players were tested for drugs last year - and some were in the off season. That is a bit controversial, at the very least.

treufreund
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:22 PM
You people are VERY VERY naive if you don't think drug use is happening. that's just my opinion on it. Not anabolic steroids but "performance-enhancement drugs" definitely. To those who say where is the proof, you missed the point totally. He contends that without completely random, off-site testing then there can be no proof and therefore the WTA is implicitly protecting its stars. Why is it that Monica, who works very hard, still gets tired faster than Capriati or Williams. I am sorry but I don't believe that Monica is just that out of shape. She only appears out of shape because she is not on drugs. Same with Henin and Hingis and even Davenport. Mary Pierce has admitted that she used creatine which is allowed but I suspect that is only the tip of the iceberg. For all we know all of them could be using things to various extents.

Ryan
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:24 PM
Dear god people. He is right, almost completely. Those chinese swimmers were extremely unnatural and out-right weird! Anyone who thinks tennis is clean, is blind like he said. Theres' not one single sport without some drug abuse in it, or none that I can think of. Don't you think the people he quoted would know MUCH more then ANYU of us??? If they say there is doping, WHY wouldn't you believe them? These are the people doing the testing, so what reason would thye have to lie about something like this?

treufreund
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:26 PM
Using these drugs during the off-season is not any more acceptable than during any other time. :(

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:30 PM
ryan15 10 years ago Claus Hoffsas said two of the 3 S players at the top are on drugs.(and it was obvious in what he said that Monica wasn't one of them wich left ASV and Sabatini), Was he right too?

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:30 PM
Bring on the drug tests! That way some of you folks could be proved wrong.

Monica_Rules
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:33 PM
I'm sure many tennis players use drugs but i doubt they will ever be caught!

Pureracket
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:35 PM
Treufreund,
In your post, you all but accused the sisters and JenCap of using performance enhancing drugs. Though your credibility as a levelheaded poster has somewhat eroded because of your salivating hatred for Venus, you usually are able to at least mask the hate with intelligent diction. This time, you don't bother do that.

Would there be any other reason for Venus, Serena, and JenCap to outlast Monica in a match (if that is the case)? Do you think possibly that they might be a little more adherent to a strict exercise/diet regimine? Have you seen ANY of their matches against Monica lately? The difference isn't that great. Monica is 1-1 in her last two matches against Serena, 1-1 against Venus and had matchpoints in her last match against JenCap.

Just as you all are accusing people are ignoring the facts, it seems as if you all are using reports like these to only serve as your own personal soapboxes onto which you may stand and point fingers at the players that have routinely been whipping up on your favourite players.

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:37 PM
For all we know Ms Hingis might very well be sitting out a suspension. Surgery :rolleyes:

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by clocker
Treufreund,
In your post, you all but accused the sisters and JenCap of using performance enhancing drugs. Though your credibility as a levelheaded poster has somewhat eroded because of your salivating hatred for Venus, you usually are able to at least mask the hate with intelligent diction. This time, you don't bother do that.

Would there be any other reason for Venus, Serena, and JenCap to outlast Monica in a match (if that is the case)? Do you think possibly that they might be a little more adherent to a strict exercise/diet regimine? Have you seen ANY of their matches against Monica lately? The difference isn't that great. Monica is 1-1 in her last two matches against Serena, 1-1 against Venus and had matchpoints in her last match against JenCap.

Just as you all are accusing people are ignoring the facts, it seems as if you all are using reports like these to only serve as your own personal soapboxes onto which you may stand and point fingers at the players that have routinely been whipping up on your favourite players.

Thats the reason for my last post...:rolleyes:

All this is doing is giving the fans of the also-rans comfort in the fact that their faves are under-achieving losers...:wavey:

BrianII
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:44 PM
I admit I have had my suscpicions about doping at least ....I mean certain players come out firing at the beginning of each year after the break and then towards mid season they tail off same pattern every year ..they are able to play hopman cup,Addidas.....AO and the tier 1 after AO all in a row and then mid season can barely beat any top 10 player ......what do they take in off season that wears off by midseason.

Gallofa
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:46 PM
I don' t know who is taking them and to what extent. Obviously the people who do not really understand what doping is all about will point to the more muscular women on the tour, but that is as naive as thinking that there is no drug use on tour.

It is a sad time for sport in general. I do believe that in many sports, we humans have pretty much reached our roof, and the only way to push it, is by using drugs. Maybe the drugs used in tennis are this side of the rules. Maybe.

BrianII
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:48 PM
And why do they avoid the Olympics, which has universal drug testing, like the plague.

treufreund
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:50 PM
I would not be surprised if Martina had used them either for that matter. I am not quite cynical on this subject. And why does Serena make statements in her interviews about the fact that "tired" is not in her vocabularly and how she does not practice much these days? Is she rubbing a little salt or actually a lot of salt in the wounds of other players? What a load of bull to say that she doesn't practice any more or that she does not get tired! Unless there is another reason for that. Of course I HAVE NO PROOF!!!! Uh duh! that's the whole point of this thread; there is a coverup! I do like Capriati a lot so don 't pretend that I am only accusing players I don't like. Hingis says she would never take those things but how do I know. Also how can I even know if the tests are really done properly or whether they will just say that they were. I know I am cynical but this is the world we live in today and some players don't have the "luxury" to buy these expensive drugs, trainers and coaches to help them. sorry if you don't like my opinion but it's what I suspect. I am willing to state bluntly that I could be all wrong but my heart tells me that something fishy is afoot. :sad:

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by BrianII
And why do they avoid the Olympics, which has universal drug testing, like the plague.

True. When is the last time missy played fed cup?

ys
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:53 PM
He might be right, but unless there are bulletproof tests, all this is just useless speculations. Of course people would tend to suspect those more muscular girls like Williams, Capriati, Mauresmo, Dementieva, but for all I remember, the last time someone was truly caught, it was Petr Korda, perhaps the *least* muscular player of ATP..

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:56 PM
dementieva is muscular?

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:57 PM
venus is neither(well at least she doesn't look that way to me)

ziggy
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by treufreund
I could be all wrong but my heart tells me that something fishy is afoot. :sad:

The only thing that smells is you and the bullshitt coming out your pie hole...:rolleyes:

like clocker said, this just another attempt to point fingers at the best women in the sport and tarnish their accomplishments. You are really ignorant to think that because an athlete says being tired is not in her vocab something is fishy. I always gave you the benifit of the doubt and reason that you might just be slow, but come on. Now I am sure that you are just a plain ol retard...:rolleyes:

Wave at the short Yellow School bus (you know the ones that carry the "special kids"...Treufreund is on it...:wavey:

earthcrystal
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:58 PM
Speculation and innuendo are unfair to players.

I say test. Let the truth fall where it may.

Rayny
Jul 11th, 2002, 08:59 PM
They only play three sets -- ususally two sets for the top players in early rounds-- so its not like they have to have the same endurance level as the men where they would need drugs. We are talking matches that average just over an hour in a lot of cases.Would drugs really have any benefit?

Also, no amount of drugs will help you strategize or overcome any mental obstacles that seem to be the biggest determinant of the victors in womens matches.

Also people are looking for signs of drugs in the people least likely to need drugs- naturally taller, bigger athletes. If I were looking for potential drug suspects I'd start with players who I'd think might need the extra boost. Smaller players like Henin who manages to be so powerful despite her slight frame. Someone like Hingis might be looking to gain an edge. Also look for players that have been out with injury for a while--they may want to make up a lot of ground in a short period of time. Of course, I don't think any of the top women's players use drugs. The top women win because they are mentally head and shoulders above the rest.

Once again--I don't think any of the top players use drugs. I only used Henin and Hingis as examples of the type of players who might benefit more from drugs.

Volcana
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:02 PM
treufreund - The truth requires me to be harsh. Go look at any of Monica's matches at Wimbledon. She wears a very loose shirt. Inspite of that, whe she bouncng onthe balls of her feet, her belly is quite evidently bouncing beneath the shirt. She's VERY out of shape. Yes, enough out of shape to always get tired first.

You're letting your frustration with her waning results get to you.

Look, his only evidence is "Physiques are bizarre". There simply aren't enough muscular players on tour to support that accusation. If he wants to say 3 or 4 out of 1000 players are on drugs he should say so. The simple truth is, with Serena's physique this accusation was ineviably going to come her way. But if people are suggesting a rail like Venus is on steroids because of her 'physique', that's pure jealousy.

How big is his "... group of women who are not what they appear to be...."? 1, 2, 3, 5 10?

Remember, his only evidence is 'physique. Go over the top players

1) Serena - The best body on the tour. It's an obvious question
2) Venus - Right. No one would conclude Venus Williams used performance enhancing drugs based on physique
3) Jenn - Her conditioning is down from last year if anything. If she's on drugs, they ain't workin'
4) Monica - Again, they ain't workin'. She way out of shape.
5) Kim - She's a big girl, but their nothing about her build nt easily achievable inthe gym
6) Jelena
7) Lindsay
8) Justine

Stop me when you get to a player who 'LOOKS' like they're on drugs.

9) Martina
10) Amelie - Way smaller than she was three years ago
11) Sandrine
12) Daniela


it's absurd.

I'm sure some players use them. Serena showed up on tour looking like the peak of human evolution, and I'm sure some players felt they needed a little extra to compete. But Lleyton Hewitt is a small man, and Serena's arms are smaller than his. NONE of these women are even as big as fitness competitors or WNBA basketball. Jackie Joiner Kersey would break any of them in half.

But I'm sure the WTA will beef up testing, and that'll be that.

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Rayny
They only play three sets -- ususally two sets for the top players in early rounds-- so its not like they have to have the same endurance level as the men where they would need drugs. We are talking matches that average just over an hour in a lot of cases.Would drugs really have any benefit?

Also, no amount of drugs will help you strategize or overcome any mental obstacles that seem to be the biggest determinant of the victors in womens matches.

Also people are looking for signs of drugs in the people least likely to need drugs- naturally taller, bigger athletes. If I were looking for potential drug suspects I'd start with players who I'd think might need the extra boost. Smaller players like Henin who manages to be so powerful despite her slight frame. Someone like Hingis might be looking to gain an edge. Also look for players that have been out with injury for a while--they may want to make up a lot of ground in a short period of time. Of course, I don't think any of the top women's players use drugs. The top women win because they are mentally head and shoulders above the rest.

Once again--I don't think any of the top players use drugs. I only used Henin and Hingis as examples of the type of players who might benefit more from drugs.


You're now officially the most stupid person ever to post on this board. Congratulations!

BrianII
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:10 PM
Look if certain posters can speculate then we all can ...Lindsay Jenn and Venus and EVen monica with her bronze all seem to feel that the most speicail moments of their liives was standing on the podium to receive an olympic medal same with steffi ASV etc...now there are player who tell us that winning Filderstat and Moscow etc...( tournamnets that they've won before and that come up each year ) are more important than the olympics ..sorry I don't buy that ...christsakes players had to go to court to get on the olympic squad .......something is fishy.....very fishy.

kay
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:11 PM
First of all, here's a list of women athletes:

Venus, Serena, Jennifer, Amelie, Lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoops, Sue Bird, Martina N. and a few others.........

All these women have muscles. Venus, Lisa, Sheryl, Sue and Martina N. all have a similar body type to me. Theyre all tall (some taller than others) and somewhat thin, but muscular.(BTW, Lisa Leslie is beautiful). Jen, Serena and Amelie have different body types than the first group of women. Theyre shorter and thicker. Doesnt mean theyre on steroids. They just have a different body type so naturally their muscles will be thicker. Its not hard for a woman to get muscles. I do aerobics with women everyday who are muscular and I doubt if any of them do steroids. Why is there all this talk about steroids anyway?

GATORSHORT
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:11 PM
Hey trefiend is just looking for something to rant about and put down certain players as far as i'm concerned he has zero creditability. Player hate all you want trefiend and when you get some real proof come an tell the rest of the board instead of just pointing fingers at players you don't like.

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:14 PM
The three main and most "popular" reasons why people take drugs is sport.

1.Money
2.Fame
3.Winning

Winning should be the first reason cause that way you'll get the money and the fame.


Money and fame. There really ain't many sports that will give more those two things than tennis.

PamShriver
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:17 PM
I always thought that it was pretty obvious that Sabatini took steroids to look at her physically between early '87 to early '88 she looks like a different person entirely. Her whole physiology completely changed. She was very small boned and slim in '85-86, but then developed these gigantic shoulders.

I always wondered if her early retirement didn't have something to do with failing another drug test (I don't know what the rules are anymore, but I think at the time after a second failed test a player could receive a lifetime ban) after all, the WTA does not disclose a player failing a drug test, because of this I have been skeptical of certain players injury sabbaticals.

People spent twenty years refuting the GDR swimmers drug rumours, both in the U.S. and abroad and even went so far as to label Shirley Babashoff a "sore loser" for speculating publicly about it. You'd think that people would've learned their lesson from that. Certain players have improved to rapidly in the off season (which is one month) for questions not to be raised. From what I understand the current drug testing procedure is so outdated that it makes a mockery of the game (the GDR women were able to conquer it without fail for 20 years).

To say that their is not performance enhancing drugs in women's tennis is to live in a fool's paradise.

Ryan
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:18 PM
ryan15 10 years ago Claus Hoffsas said two of the 3 S players at the top are on drugs.(and it was obvious in what he said that Monica wasn't one of them wich left ASV and Sabatini), Was he right too?



S players? I'm not quite sure what you mean. He probably doesn't know what he's talking about, I'll give you that. The reson I said that those people were right because they did tests, or at least that's what I'm assuming from what the article said. There is no way there are no players in the WTA that aren't on drugs, and I just don't know how people can say there isn't. I'm not saying ANY names, because I have no suspicions or guesses about who it could be.



Look if certain posters can speculate then we all can ...Lindsay Jenn and Venus and EVen monica with her bronze all seem to feel that the most speicail moments of their liives was standing on the podium to receive an olympic medal same with steffi ASV etc...now there are player who tell us that winning Filderstat and Moscow etc...( tournamnets that they've won before and that come up each year ) are more important than the olympics ..sorry I don't buy that ...christsakes players had to go to court to get on the olympic squad .......something is fishy.....very fishy.


If your going to be tasteless and blatant, just say names and spare us. I highly doubt Hingis would miss the Olympics IF she uses steroids, she did play Fed Cup in 98 I think, was on the Olympic Swiss Team in 96 as well. Maybe we could be saying that the sisters haven't played Fed Cup the past years as well because THEY are on drugs.:rolleyes: You're so stupid it's painful.

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:21 PM
S players, players who's last name started with an S( also Seles,Sabatini,Sanchez)

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:23 PM
They wanted to sue him but I don't think they ever did!

PamShriver
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:25 PM
It wasn't "S" players, it was 2 of the top 3 women players. It was Graf, Sabatini and Seles. It's in Mewshaw's book and Sabatini was the only one who publically responded by saying that she was considering suing.

BrianII
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:27 PM
Sensitive aren't we ...hingis fans start something and now one of their poor little whiners is offended .......

irma
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:29 PM
I heard him say it in the aktuelle sportstudio and he said literal 2 of the 3 big S players and he didn't meant Steffi for sure because he needed her;)!

Infiniti2001
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:30 PM
Venus and Jen better up their doses , because Serena seems to be kicking their asses off the court lately :rolleyes:

Weevee
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:54 PM
For a sport that is "riddled with drugs" this gentleman is woefully short of evidence. They look like they are taking drugs is not good enough. Not one solitary fact in this disgusting attempt to besmirch a sport. No indication of the class of drugs suspected nothing said about the profile of the drug users. Nothing about what the drugs are supposed to do and how that helps with tennis. This person is not worth responding to.

Nimi
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:56 PM
this thread again? enjoy...

Rayny
Jul 11th, 2002, 09:57 PM
You're now officially the most stupid person ever to post on this board. Congratulations

..and you are officially the rudest. If you can't present a well-thought out counter-argument then just remain silent. Why insult somene else?

villa
Jul 11th, 2002, 10:01 PM
Lol at infiniti, your right cos whatever shit their using ain't working no more;)

CappyMania
Jul 11th, 2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Rayny


..and you are officially the rudest. If you can't present a well-thought out counter-argument then just remain silent. Why insult somene else?


I hope you will read again what you wrote and think about it. I hope it helps.

Volcana
Jul 11th, 2002, 10:08 PM
This problem is going to take care of itself.

Performance enhancing drugs are in the news. Drug testing is in the news. Serena winning RG and WB is in the news. Serena looks like she was sculpted from marble.

Only a very naive person wouldn't at least ask themself whether or not you could get that body with drugs. Serena shows none of the signs of drug use, so I believe she's clean. But her sponsors are going to want test results if the issue stays in the news. That's what will drive testing. If the spomnsors clamour for it, the players willp ut up with whatever they have to. But the Olympians, ASV, Elena D, V&S already have resords of clean tests, so they're going to be fine.

There is one thing you have to allow for. In the US a lot of players live in private communities with their own (lightly) armed security forces. You don't show up at the player's house. You show up at the gate, and if the the player has instructed the gate to say they're not home, the gate will say that.

They're not going to surprise test the majority of any drug-using players top players. Those players aren't that accessible. The WTA says they'll send 'someone they know'. Well, if I were suspicious, I'd say that's the same as sending someone with an inherent conflict of interest.

Whatever. The cheaters will be caught, if the public puts on enough pressure. Either they'll be caught, or suddenly, their results will suffer (they'll LOSE in the final of RG and WB! :) Just kidding...) or they'll start suffering really nasty muscle tendon injuries.

Lelu
Jul 11th, 2002, 10:41 PM
It's obviously so painful for many women's tennis fans to even entertain the thought of drug use in the sport, that they prefer to live in denial. Some of the fans are either so dumb or naive that they really think that athletes in tennis are for some reason that much different from those in other sports. It may be a rude awakening, but there has been a drug problem in tennis for years. Apart from golf, is there any other sport in which women make that much money? No? So, if there are drugs in every other women's sport (we have to go only as far back as the last winter olympic games), why would tennis be spared? Because we would like to believe so? There has been no evidence, because there has been no comprehensive testing program implemented so far.

mishar
Jul 11th, 2002, 10:57 PM
Well, you can insult Monica all you like, but one thing you can't accuse her of is taking performance-enhancing drugs! ;-)

Or if she is, she really needs a new physician!! :-)

Cam'ron Giles
Jul 11th, 2002, 11:04 PM
If Monica is taking drugs she should sue the person who sold them to her...

Lisbeth
Jul 11th, 2002, 11:52 PM
The physiques don't look bizarre to me. In fact, they look like a reasonably normal cross-section of the bodies of active women!

On the other hand, I suspect there are drugs in tennis like in nearly every sport. HOWEVER, people shouldn't name names or make veiled references to who they think might be guilty until they have some real evidence.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 12th, 2002, 12:01 AM
Yuck what an ugly subject. If you have no proof I think you should keep your baseless unfounded unscientific rumor mongering to yourself. I mean really, what some of you are doing is practically libel!

You have no evidence. You have no proof. The tennis ferderation should just test the players and be done with it. Case closed. In my opinion I think all the players are clean until proven doped up and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a spiteful person.

Cassius
Jul 12th, 2002, 12:28 AM
Why are people on this board AGAIN arguing about something that will sort itself out?
NO SPORT is completely 'drug free'.
When more testing comes into practice, then we'll see if anyone has indeed been breaking the rules.
Why argue about who it 'might' be? We'll see who it is, when the results come through and which players after that myteriously disappear.

Greenout
Jul 12th, 2002, 12:47 AM
LOOK!

This guy is not trying to destroy tennis; he's
trying to clear it up. As an Australian ; I doubt
he's trying to taint the sport. The Aussie female
players are vocal- I suspect that they feel cheated
in losing to players that may or may not be on "drugs".

I think there is "doping" in the WTA. It's the richest
women's sport around. There's alot on the line.


This issue needs to be discussed. If the fans are in
denial; the WTA/ATP will be too. The interesting thing
about this article is that it's from an Australian- they have
a lot at stake with tennis. The prior reports came from
France, and alot of people suspect it was from sour grapes
at Roland Garros.

Now we have the French and the Aussies worried about
drug abuse. Why can't we Americans admit that it's
something that might actually involve us as oppose to
getting defensive?

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 12th, 2002, 12:55 AM
ITF Says Release Of French Open Drug Tests Results Was Premature

By Richard Pagliaro
07/09/2002


Officials from the French drug-testing agency that administered drug tests during the French Open announced yesterday two players tested positive for drugs. Today, the International Tennis Federation criticized the agency for releasing the test results calling the announcement "premature."



Neither the French agency administering the tests — Conseil de Prevention et de Lutte Contre le Dopage (CPLD) — nor the ITF has named the players who the CPLD claims tested positive. The ITF, which is the governing body of the Grand Slams, said that proper procedures must be followed before any announcement can be made.

"The ITF is surprised that the CPLD has disclosed that there are two positive results from anti-doping tests taken at 2002 Roland Garros," an ITF spokesman told Reuters. "One of the key principles of the tennis anti-doping program is the belief that players are innocent until proven guilty. In accordance with the tennis anti-doping program and the ITF's signed agreement with the French government, positive results are announced only when procedures are concluded. Therefore any announcement at this time is premature."

According to the ITF spokesman, procedural policy dictates that an "A" sample, which is an initial urine sample, and a "B" sample, which is a second sample subject to more advanced testing, must be taken as well as a tribunal held prior to any positive test announcement.

The ITF is considering adopting an amendment to its current drug testing policy, which would permit blood testing of players as a backup to urine testing if the World Anti-Doping Agency decrees such a test is necessary.

In the seven-year history of drug testing in tennis only seven of 8,000 tests conducted have been positive.



_________________

Althea
Jul 12th, 2002, 01:35 AM
I'm with you VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
People until we know (if we ever know) let's not start accusing any of these players.

Remember when you ASSume >>those so quick point fingers/ run off at the lip, could have to eat a lot of humble pie should the player turn out to actually be that person's very own fav<< which btw I wish on no one.

STOP THE HATE!!! And LET THE TESTING BEGIN !
Just may it take place in a manner that does not allow fakes/frauds/obsessed fans/HATERS to get next to these people (pretending to be testers, producing fake credentials, etc) and perhaps cause them/family members serious harm

Bella
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:32 AM
Cassius, testing won't tell you if anyone broke the rules before the testing begins, so it can't clear things up, can it? It could be clear by future results if and when the drugs are no longer possible. Players are going have to believe these tests will really happen at random times before it makes any difference.

I have always seen the accusations against Jennifer as a pre-emptive strike. Some of those accusers must have wracked their tiny brains to come up with the stupid arguments accusing Martina. What tripe.

To the person who said drugs don't give you a mental edge, I can only say that you are naive. They really can. Confidence is a great benefit of many drugs.

So the pretense of covering everyone equally with a comment about not winning RG and Wimbledon is mitigated with "just kidding" but a reference to tendon injuries is listed as proof of drug use, Volcana? Duuhhhh, lemme see? Who's got one o' dose?

tennisvideos
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:39 AM
That article does not surprise me in the least. I have been suspicious of certain performances for the past 20 years. And it isn't just tennis - this is a problem in many sports worldwide. Such a shame. Many (if not most) of the East German swimmers and athletes were part of a systematic doping program in the 70s and early 80s. It wasn't until many, many years later that evidence has come to light on this. Same with a number of the Chinese women swimmers. Having seen 'some' of them in the flesh competing here in Australia, a number of them certainly looked incredibly bulked up - much more than my male friends who are regulars at the gyms and really into fitness. Even some of the sprinters in athletics today (male and female) look very very suss in my opinion.

I would not be surprised in the least if there are problems on both the mens and womens tours. And it doesn't necessarily mean just bulk or mass - but some of the substances support enhanced stamina etc. And there are some tennis players who can sprint around the court for hours on end and never seem to tire.

One cannot name names because if you do, what happens - you get sued! So no one would be game to point the finger at specific players. So let's cut the cr@p with saying things like "put up or shut up".

This guy is an anti-doping officer. Don't you think he would have an idea??? I am sure he would be in a far better position than any of us general tennis fans on this subject. And I also think many fans deny the drugs issue - they may be scared that their favourite is on them. Heavens, I suspect one of my faves may be on something - but I would rather 20 people are caught than the sham that currently exists in world sport.

I just wished all sporting bodies would take the issue seriously and crack down on illegal substances.

Bravo John Mendoza for speaking up on such a controversial issue that is most often swept under the carpet.

Volcana
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:44 AM
Bella - Not 'tendon injuries', MUSCLE tendon injuries. That refers to a type of tear where the entire tendos shreds away form the muscle. It's common with steroid overuse. 'Tendon' injuries, OTOH, are fairly common in sports with a lot of joint shock, like tennis. Golfers have wrist and elbow tendon problems. Runners have problems with ankles and knees. Howevr, this is usually inflammation. Muscles and tendons totally ripping apart is nearly unheard of the tour. But its quite common the last ten years in pro football.

Now that we've cleared up the definition, who on the tour has MUSCLE tendon injuries?

Cassius
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:54 AM
Cassius, testing won't tell you if anyone broke the rules before the testing begins, so it can't clear things up, can it? It could be clear by future results if and when the drugs are no longer possible. Players are going have to believe these tests will really happen at random times before it makes any difference.
I see you point BELLA, but if rigorous testing is done RANDOMLY, then it will help stop any drugs being used. 'If' any drugs are being used now.

harloo
Jul 12th, 2002, 04:00 AM
Some of you posters have your own vested interest in this subject. It's so obvious, and you can't hide it. Sorry, but I see right through all the fakeness.

Futhermore, I think the ITF and the body's of tennis needs to get together and discuss this subject. They need to come up with a procedure that will allow them to test randomly, but they need to figure out how to respect the players privacy in the process. Then this issue will be resolved.

In reality, the steroid usage is coming up in all of sports now. Baseball, and John Mac's drug use brought it back to tennis now. I expect it to get even more intense with the William sisters close to dominating now. Anyone would know that the sisters have always been muscular, but I guess some still are looking for anything.

I would think that someone who needs the drugs would be a player who is struggling to keep up with the tour. Ranked 100, and trying to make a breakthrough. JMO. But who knows? NOONE ON THIS BOARD KNOWS, SO LET IT GO!!!!

The writer is a complete idiot, because if you are gonna state something please have some evidence. I for one am not naive to believe that their are not players taking Roids, but all this speculation the writer is spewing is very unprofessional.

BigTennisFan
Jul 12th, 2002, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by CappyMania



You're now officially the most stupid person ever to post on this board. Congratulations!

It has now been decreed from on high. Therefore it must be so.:rolleyes:

Couver
Jul 12th, 2002, 05:30 AM
Well the truth is, if you really look at other sports and people who have been caught doping. It's very rarely a big name who is using, for the simple fact that they have so much to loose. And it also usually isn't someone winning everything in sight.

If one looks at most althletes, they will also see the majority of them are very fit, and most haven't done any drugs. Being in shape is what pays their bills, so they have strict workout routines to keep them in that shape.

It's just always disgusting that when ever this topic comes up three players are accused Venus, Serena & Jennifer. Why? Just becuase they are winning does not mean they are doping. They are good althletes.

One Venus & Serena have always looked like that!! Including when they won the Olympics. Neither has made a giant leap in fitness or endurance.

And Jennifer? Why accuse her? Because she once smoked pot? Please. Jennifer's body type looks just like something you could get if you worked hard, I mean she's not even that muscular. She has endurance sure, so do most althletes.

I said it before and I'll say it again, just because you don't like them doesn't mean THEY are the ones doping.

I doubt anyone in the top 30 dopes, I think you'd have to look down, down in the rankings to find anyone.

I actually think this doping scandal is crap. It popped up in Baseball and now every sport has ' large amounts of doping'. So fine let the slams start testing the players. They' ll probably have to bust them for taking like Nyquil or a tylanol LOL.

gopher
Jul 12th, 2002, 05:34 AM
Not too difficult to open your eyes I would say.
Congrats for those willing to speak out.

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by harloo
Some of you posters have your own vested interest in this subject. It's so obvious, and you can't hide it. Sorry, but I see right through all the fakeness.

Futhermore, I think the ITF and the body's of tennis needs to get together and discuss this subject. They need to come up with a procedure that will allow them to test randomly, but they need to figure out how to respect the players privacy in the process. Then this issue will be resolved.

In reality, the steroid usage is coming up in all of sports now. Baseball, and John Mac's drug use brought it back to tennis now. I expect it to get even more intense with the William sisters close to dominating now. Anyone would know that the sisters have always been muscular, but I guess some still are looking for anything.

I would think that someone who needs the drugs would be a player who is struggling to keep up with the tour. Ranked 100, and trying to make a breakthrough. JMO. But who knows? NOONE ON THIS BOARD KNOWS, SO LET IT GO!!!!

The writer is a complete idiot, because if you are gonna state something please have some evidence. I for one am not naive to believe that their are not players taking Roids, but all this speculation the writer is spewing is very unprofessional.

Again a lot of crap talk!!!! Usually the drug users are in top10 in every sport rather than under the top100. If it were like you said then we would not need testing in Olympics. The writer is not an idiot cause you're the one. Freedom of speech!!!!!!!

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by luna_moonstone
Well the truth is, if you really look at other sports and people who have been caught doping. It's very rarely a big name who is using, for the simple fact that they have so much to loose. And it also usually isn't someone winning everything in sight.




Ben Johnson, Katrin Krabbe, Grit Breuer, Susen Tiedtke, Merlene Ottey, Lindford Christie, Michelle Smith, all the top cyclists, etc.


Don't you watch any sport?

babsi
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:37 AM
Linford Christie - he was never caught for taking anything!

babsi
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:41 AM
And what about most of the East German swimming team in the 70/80s. They were setting world records, olympic golds, world championships.

Out of competition testing should be set in all sports because somebody could take a drug to increase stamina when training so they can do more, but when they test in competition they are clean.

korben
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by babsi
Linford Christie - he was never caught for taking anything!

Yes he was.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/s41680.htm

babsi
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:47 AM
In 99 he was all but retired then, only racing for fun, it would have been much bigger when he won Olympic gold in 93 or world championship gold in 93, and it would have mean't something.

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by babsi
In 99 he was all but retired then, only racing for fun, it would have been much bigger when he won Olympic gold in 93 or world championship gold in 93, and it would have mean't something.



No one is racing for fun if the times are under 10.20 in 100 meter like they were in his case!!!!

babsi
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:57 AM
This is completely off-topic, but he was semi-retired then he wasn't even racing in world championships/european chamipoships, that shows how seriously he was taking it then.

babsi
Jul 12th, 2002, 11:03 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/tennis/newsid_2123000/2123868.stm

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by babsi
This is completely off-topic, but he was semi-retired then he wasn't even racing in world championships/european chamipoships, that shows how seriously he was taking it then.


That only shows how stupid he was. Was he black or white sprinter, I can't quite remember...?

babsi
Jul 12th, 2002, 11:07 AM
But you are presuming that the test was 100% accurate?

Do a search on Diane Modahl and see what happened there.

And he was black originally from Jamaica

Robbie.
Jul 12th, 2002, 11:10 AM
Boy, have we gotten way off track here :rolleyes:

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by babsi
But you are presuming that the test was 100% accurate?



Yes it was!!! Does anyone know that athletes IQ drops 50% after he/she hears she has failed a drug test? :D

Williams Rulez
Jul 12th, 2002, 01:16 PM
I just wish they would name the players and get voer with it. I mean, all these speculations they leave us with is just useless... :sad:

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Williams Rulez
I just wish they would name the players and get voer with it. I mean, all these speculations they leave us with is just useless... :sad:

How can they name any players? No one has failed a drug tests!!!! Idiot! (sorry) There would not be ANY speculations if everything was OK. If no one would have speculated in the 70's and 80's we would now have 10 East-German tennis players in top 10!!!!!

CC
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:18 PM
Boy, that word "Idiot" flows so freely from your mouth, doesn't it?

Volcana
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:21 PM
Modahl 'robbed of her best years'
Vivek Chaudhary, sports correspondent
Thursday July 26, 2001
The Guardian

The athlete Diane Modahl was unfairly treated and robbed of a chance of winning a gold medal when she was banned from athletics by the sports governing body for allegedly being involved in a drugs scandal, the court of appeal heard yesterday.

Modahl, 35, was also robbed of the best years of her sporting life, the three judges were told at the start of her appeal against a high court ruling last year that she was not entitled to £1m compensation for the way she was treated by the British Athletics Federation (BAF).

Anthony Julius, representing Modahl, said that the high court was wrong to rule against her last year and failed to recognise that some mem bers of the BAF's disciplinary committee were biased against her case.

Modahl hit the headlines after testing positive for drugs prior to the 1994 Commonwealth Games and was subsequently banned for four years by the BAF. The court was told yesterday that even though an independent appeal panel lifted the ban in July 1995 and Modahl was cleared of drug taking, she never had the chance to recover lost earnings or legal costs.

Mr Julius said: "The court's reluctance to intervene in cases involving sporting bodies must be overcome in cases such as the claimant's which is in truth a livelihood case."

The court was told that Modahl and her husband had sold their house to pay for the legal costs of the case and that she had never received an apology from the BAF, which went into liquidation as a result of challenging her legal case. The organisation has been superseded by UK Athletics, the governing body for athletics in the country.

Mr Julius said that the high court should have intervened in Modahl's case because her livelihood had been affected by the BAF's decision and because it had been independently proved that she was innocent of the drugs allegations.

Modahl, who was the 1990 Commonwealth Games 800m champion, is claiming £480,000 spent on legal fees and medical advice plus a similar figure in damages over the way her case was handled by the BAF.

Mr Julius also told the court that the BAF's decision to ban Modahl prevented her from winning the gold medal at the Commonwealth Games in Canada in 1994, for which she was favourite and that this deprived her of valuable income.

Modahl said in a statement that she was considering running next year at the Commonwealth Games.

The case continues.

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by CC
Boy, that word "Idiot" flows so freely from your mouth, doesn't it?


On this board it does.

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 12th, 2002, 02:39 PM
Look the point is that if you have no proof then all youre doing is rumor mongering and mud slinging. You cant accuse someone of murder without any proof, so why do some of you feel you can accuse players of doping?

The solution is simple: TEST THE PLAYERS! Then the non sense can stop. I am quite confident that my favorite players and everyone in the top ten and twenty is not doping. In fact I am quite confident that the overwhelming majority of players are not doping.

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
Look the point is that if you have no proof then all youre doing is rumor mongering and mud slinging. You cant accuse someone of murder without any proof, so why do some of you feel you can accuse players of doping?

The solution is simple: TEST THE PLAYERS! Then the non sense can stop. I am quite confident that my favorite players and everyone in the top ten and twenty is not doping. In fact I am quite confident that the overwhelming majority of players are not doping.

I have not accused but now I will do it and in a weird way.

Can anyone on this board prove that they are 100% clean? Don't be shy. :) Why speculate that they are clean if you can't prove it.

It's fun to turn this whole thing around, I guess.

TSequoia01
Jul 12th, 2002, 03:05 PM
quote from Tennisvideos:

One cannot name names because if you do, what happens - you get sued! So no one would be game to point the finger at specific players. So let's cut the cr@p with saying things like "put up or shut up".

Not quite the point, one should only fear litigation if the statements are not true or there is no proof. Obviously one or both of these conditions exist. :cool:

Zamboni
Jul 12th, 2002, 03:50 PM
Geesh, how ignorant can people be :rolleyes:

Of course there are players who take drugs, you can find some in every sport (even darting, and I'm being serious here!). It's nuts to believe tennis is clean. No sport is, and tennis for sure ain't. I can't tell names of course, who can? But it's crap to say "Nobody has ever got caught", duh, when they tell they're gonna test you, you take something that doesn't stay in your body for long ;)

I want more tests, and out of competition testing. It's ridiculous the players don't want that. It's the only way to give the sport more credibility. 10 Years ago they could get away with this kind of anti-drugs-programme, but now every sport tests, except for tennis. Test, and we'll see who changes playing style, who's results get worse, and -maybe- whose body changes. You can't just accuse anyone now, and for sure not point at the muscular players cos they are muscular!

harloo
Jul 12th, 2002, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by CappyMania


Again a lot of crap talk!!!! Usually the drug users are in top10 in every sport rather than under the top100. If it were like you said then we would not need testing in Olympics. The writer is not an idiot cause you're the one. Freedom of speech!!!!!!!

Please, CrappyMania with your self righteous attitude. Just like the writer can express himself, I have just the same right to call him an idiot. He is making statements without even doing research, and that's pretty unprofessional. Also, who made you GOD? I would rather for someone to bring out all the details before prematurely accusing all the top players of doping right away.

Like I said before, I'm not naive to believe that noone is taking steroids. However, I think it's really childish for some posters to outright accuse players with no evidence. And that's all the players. Talk about Freedom Of Speech, what about Innocent Until Proven Guilty? Oh, I guess CrappyMania forgot about that. ROTFLMAO!!!!!

CappyMania
Jul 12th, 2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by harloo


Please, CrappyMania with your self righteous attitude. Just like the writer can express himself, I have just the same right to call him an idiot. He is making statements without even doing research, and that's pretty unprofessional. Also, who made you GOD? I would rather for someone to bring out all the details before prematurely accusing all the top players of doping right away.

Like I said before, I'm not naive to believe that noone is taking steroids. However, I think it's really childish for some posters to outright accuse players with no evidence. And that's all the players. Talk about Freedom Of Speech, what about Innocent Until Proven Guilty? Oh, I guess CrappyMania forgot about that. ROTFLMAO!!!!!


The writer is an expert who knows what he's talking about. You're not an expert. I'm not a god but I also know more about these things than you.

No one has named any names (except few idiots here), so far everyone is innocent.

Volcana
Jul 12th, 2002, 07:09 PM
National Institute on Drug Abuse Report on Steroids (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31480)

Kart
Jul 12th, 2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Volcana
Bella - Not 'tendon injuries', MUSCLE tendon injuries. That refers to a type of tear where the entire tendos shreds away form the muscle. It's common with steroid overuse. 'Tendon' injuries, OTOH, are fairly common in sports with a lot of joint shock, like tennis. Golfers have wrist and elbow tendon problems. Runners have problems with ankles and knees. Howevr, this is usually inflammation. Muscles and tendons totally ripping apart is nearly unheard of the tour. But its quite common the last ten years in pro football.

Now that we've cleared up the definition, who on the tour has MUSCLE tendon injuries?

By definition a tendon connects a muscle to bone so all tendon injuries are 'muscle tendon injuries' :p.

What you are describing is a rupture of the musculotendinous junction.

Such can injury can occur whilst playing tennis - most commonly in the calf muscle. Usually though it is a partial rupture and with proper treatment will heal in a few months.

The idea of the muscle totally ripping away from the tendon would require a seriously strong sudden force which is why it is not common in tennis. I don't know anything about American football so I have no idea why it's more common there - it is theoretically a very hard thing to do in a healthy athelete to have a complete rupture.

With steroids, presumably if the muscle is very enlarged by drug abuse then this predisposes to such an event.

GogoGirl
Jul 12th, 2002, 11:35 PM
http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=OTQA2UUO2VM4UCRBAEZS FFAKEEATIIWD?type=sportnews&StoryID=1196699





Drug Use Claims Inaccurate and Defamatory, Says ITF

July 12, 2002 06:10 PM ET Email this article Printer friendly version


LONDON (Reuters) - Claims by Australia's top doping official that drug use in professional tennis was widespread were "inaccurate, inappropriate and defamatory," the International Tennis Federation (ITF) said Friday.

Francesco Ricci Bitti, president of the ITF, said remarks made by Australian Sports Drug Agency (ASDA) chief executive John Mendoza Thursday that tennis was heavily influenced by doping were "ill-judged and insulting."

"Mr Mendoza's remarks were not only inaccurate and inappropriate but also defamatory to our sport and to the tremendous efforts made by the ITF and its partners in the tennis anti-doping program," Ricci Bitti said in a statement Friday.

"His remarks are ill-judged and insulting to the players and to the ITF, ATP (men's tour) and Sanex WTA (women's) Tour," he said.

Ricci Bitti said Mendoza had acknowledged in a conversation with ITF executive director Deborah Jevans Thursday that his remarks had been based on rumors and supposition and were taken out of context.

Mendoza was expected to release a statement Friday to set the record straight, but Ricci Bitti said to his knowledge that statement had not been made.

Mendoza, whose agency was in charge of drug testing at the Sydney Olympics, was quoted as saying in The Australian newspaper that the problem was worse in the women's game.

The use of performance-enhancing drugs, particularly steroids, was now so common in women's tennis that the sport was heading toward a crisis like that which hit swimming at the 1994 world championships or cycling before the Tour de France drug busts in 1997, he was quoted as saying.

IRRESPONSIBLE

Mendoza's comments were rejected as "irresponsible and damaging" by the Women's Tennis Association.

"We categorically reject the claim that the success or physical condition of women's tennis players today is proof of rampant drug use," said Kevin Wulff, chief executive of the WTA, in a statement made on the WTA Web Site.

He said several hundred anti-doping tests were carried out on more than 140 different players in 2001 at tournaments, grand slams and Fed Cup competitions.

"Top players were tested as many as eight different times and we are proud of -- but not surprised by -- the fact that no anti-doping offences were committed in 2001," Wulff said.

"It is a priority and a goal, both of the tour and its players, to increase and expand anti-doping efforts, education and testing in 2002 and beyond and we are committed to making that a reality.

"Stereotyping of our athletes as dopers is simply unfair and unacceptable. We will not tolerate remarks like Mendoza's and anxiously await the retraction and apology we have demanded."

DAMAGE

Ricci Bitti said the ITF had asked Mendoza for a full retraction of his comments but said "...there is no way he can retract the damage he has done to our sport.

"Our best recourse is to work hard with our partners in the tennis anti-doping program to keep our sport clean.

"We have a good record so far, despite Mr. Mendoza, and we intend to keep it that way," he said.

Ricci Bitti argued that the tennis anti-doping program was one of the most professional in sport.

"The tennis anti-doping program conducts over 1,200 tests per year at the grand slams, Davis Cup, Fed Cup, ATP and Sanex WTA events," he said.

The ITF was about to extend the agreement it signed with the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) in 2000 for out-of-competition testing.

Althea
Jul 13th, 2002, 12:35 AM
Dang Gogo Girl - You Did It Again!!:) :)

Ricci Bitti said Mendoza had acknowledged in a conversation with ITF executive director Deborah Jevans Thursday that his remarks had been based on rumors and supposition and were taken out of context.

Hello....

"Stereotyping of our athletes as dopers is simply unfair and unacceptable....

We will not tolerate remarks like Mendoza's and anxiously await retraction and apology we have demanded."

If Ricci Bittis is correct that Mendoza did make above acknowledgement then I do wonder

will he actually apologize/retract his remarks...hopefully so

Experimentee
Jul 13th, 2002, 02:23 PM
This writers obviously not much of an expert if he thinks that using drugs always gives athletes muscular physiques. Its ok to speculate about drugs in tennis, but he shouldnt have said the physique comment because then hes basically accusing Capriati Serena and Mauresmo and other muscular women without proof.

Monique
Jul 13th, 2002, 07:30 PM
if all these accusations about drug usage on Tour cause the ITF and other tennis organizations to actually start performing tests in a more efficient and constant way, then maybe something good will have come out of this issue...but the way the ITF is trying now to muscle in the topic by claiming Mr. Mendoza's accusations as inappropriate, if not untrue at its fore, is at least worrisome, as I don't see a willingness in changing the way they treat the matter...The WTA's policy of hiding every detail out of the general public is also wrong, as it is their feeble shot at the French Tennis Federation for speaking out about some results caught in RG...To the WTA contentment, months from now no information will be released and most fans won't ever know what really happended with those tests...

Nice post, Pam, I had never thought of Sabatini's early retirement under that new light...

BigTennisFan
Jul 13th, 2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by CappyMania


I have not accused but now I will do it and in a weird way.

Can anyone on this board prove that they are 100% clean? Don't be shy. :) Why speculate that they are clean if you can't prove it.

It's fun to turn this whole thing around, I guess.

OK Cappy, since you want to play, let's play. Can you prove that that you are not an avid collector of child pornography? It's not enough for you to deny it. Everyone denies their wrong doing.

No, no, no! I want incontrovertible PROOF that you are not a pervert.:(

It's fun to turn this whole thing around, I guess.:D

CappyMania
Jul 13th, 2002, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by BigTennisFan


OK Cappy, since you want to play, let's play. Can you prove that that you are not an avid collector of child pornography? It's not enough for you to deny it. Everyone denies their wrong doing.

No, no, no! I want incontrovertible PROOF that you are not a pervert.:(

It's fun to turn this whole thing around, I guess.:D


Yes it's fun to turn it around. Send your picture to me cause you're probably in the right age. :D

harloo
Jul 13th, 2002, 10:37 PM
Good article, gogogirl. I thought it was premature for Mendoza to make false accusations with no merit. I'm pretty sure we will see a retraction of his statement in the coming days, however he has tarnished the hard work and dedication of professional tennis players. Not having proof, and making false claims against someone is unprofessional and slanderous. He should be liable for his comments, because he targeted a few maliciously.

I don't believe that any sport is drug free. However, a person is innocent until proven guilty and in America that's the process. IMO, Mendoza needs to be fired for his comments. Making false claims based on rumors, and innuendo is defamatory and he should suffer the consequences for doing so.

Jay
Jul 13th, 2002, 10:47 PM
I don't think he'll get fired at all. Who's going to fire him ? the WTA can't. His own drug test agency ? very unlikey because he's probably only saying what his bosses think. Nope, they won't sack him just in case a year or 2 later there is big scandal a la Tour de France that comes to light.

I'm also certain that we won't see a retraction of his statement.

harloo
Jul 13th, 2002, 10:55 PM
Jay, it's my opinion that he should be fired. However, the reality is that I have no control over that. You, I, or anyone knows what his bosses are thinking except the parties involved.

If this story picks up more steam, you can expect a retraction. However, I don't know if anyone is really paying alot of attention to this story. Who knows what will happen? I just have a feeling(that's all it is) that the WTA is not going to let up on this. We will have to wait and see what will happen.;)

Jay
Jul 13th, 2002, 11:06 PM
I think the story has picked up as much steam as it can for a tennis story. It has gone international and the WTA who are a dozy lot at the best of times have actually been provoked into a response.

I can't see any reason why this guy would feel pressured into making a retraction. He hasn't done anything that is liable to legal action. If he had named a player then that's a different matter.

The only way this story can get any bigger is if someone is actually caught.

Couver
Jul 13th, 2002, 11:46 PM
'Don't you watch any sport?'

Since this was directed at me I thought I would answer. Yes I do watch a lot of sports, and I disagree. I was speaking in terms of pro sports NOT THE OLYMPICS

In that case you have a very valid point, but I disagree in Pro Sports.

Anyway I posted my opinion in a non aggresive manner and yet you choose to jump on me like a bitch?

Well when they finally catch whoever it is on the WTA then we'll talk. You could very well be right, but then again so could I.

I just don't really like talking to people who get overly aggresive over nothing!

Couver
Jul 13th, 2002, 11:54 PM
Sorry just a quick post apologizing to CappyMania. I won't edit my post because when I make a mistake I want it seen.

Calling you that was childish and just so wrong. I hate using that word it demeans women everywhere.

So although I disagree with what you are saying, I am sorry to have acted in such an implusive manner. I normally try not to speak out of anger.

Shane54
Jul 14th, 2002, 01:43 AM
Hey lunamoonstone I really respect that you admitted your wrong. Trust me I have also said some things in anger. We all have, but a truthful person can admit when they are wrong. I just wish some other posters would take note. Peace moonstone;)

Hulet
Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:18 PM
hehe ...sorry for bumping this thread...but I would like to know what everyone thinks of wertheims assesment of drug in Tennis; here is his response in this weeks mailbag:

Now that John Mendoza (Australian Sports Drug Agency chief executive) has courageously come out for drug testing because drug use is "rife" in tennis, especially on the women's side, why won't the WTA and ITF admit it has a criminal and sporting problem? It hardly behooves the tennis world (or baseball, football, track, etc.) to have it stars portrayed as junkies who can swing a racket. Didn't Ivan Lendl address this problem with a clear-headed, but stern, ban-them-for-life solution? What is best for the sport?
—Walter Ledesma, Lake Oswego, Ore.

Courageously? Mendoza pops off about rampant drug use in tennis, but rather than citing concrete evidence to support what is an extraordinarily serious and incriminating charge -- one that cuts to the sport's core credibility -- he talks about the women's "abnormal physique." What does that mean? Abnormal to whom? I see a phrase like that and I envision a small man who is freaked out by strong, muscular women. You're right that it hardly behooves the sport to have its stars portrayed as drug cheats. But as long as the allegations are as unsubstantiated and apparently speculative as Mendoza's, I'm not sure that tennis takes much of a hit.

For a variety of reasons -- one of them, I believe, is some folks' desperation to discredit the success of the Williams sisters -- drugs-in-tennis has been a hot topic of late, both in general and among Mailbag readers. The stance here remains unchanged. Is tennis somehow free of the drug cheats who sully every other sport? No. Is it likely that more players will test positive within the next year? Yes. Do the tours as well as the ITF need to step up their testing programs in a meaningful way that goes beyond repeating the buzzword "transparency" at every available opportunity? Absolutely, the WTA in particular. But talk of "rife" drug use in tennis is wildly overstated.

Tennis, to be sure, is not without its ills. Management groups exert entirely too much power, too many players are getting injured, the sport's profile in the United States continues its slow burn, players bag tournaments at the 11th hour with "maladies" like gastritis. But from everything I've seen and been told, on and off the record, the widespread use of performing-enhancing drugs isn't one of them.

Volcana
Jul 22nd, 2002, 05:22 PM
eta psi - I'm going to start a new thread with this. I think he's done quite a nice analysis there though.