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View Full Version : This may be stating the obvious, but Bartoli is in horrible shape


DA FOREHAND
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:22 PM
If she plans on becoming a solid top ten player, she'll have to firm up her fitness.

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:29 PM
If she plans on becoming a solid top ten player, she'll have to firm up her fitness.
Petrova and Safina are in no better shape and have been in and around the top 10. Depends entirely how you view the word "fitness" - is she "fit" as in if you saw her walking down the street would you assume she was an "athlete"? No. Can she handle a very demanding schedule playing more matches more regularly than people in better "shape"? Yes. In a sporting context her "fitness" is fine because she claimed exhaustion after playing the same number of matches JJ did in the same time period (French-Wimbledon) before saying the same.

Could she lose some weight? Sure. Is her current "condition" preventing her from achieving success *or stopping her physically from competing when "fitness" comes into play*? No. Her 3-set record is fine and her body can handle a lot of matches/tournaments.

JeremySun
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:30 PM
Who cares. Marion will fade away again with injury and what not. After all, she IS turning 23 years old already.

Wiggly
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:32 PM
Her father says it's better like that because it adds power to her shots.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Petrova and Safina are in no better shape and have been in and around the top 10. Depends entirely how you view the word "fitness" - is she "fit" as in if you saw her walking down the street would you assume she was an "athlete"? No. Can she handle a very demanding schedule playing more matches more regularly than people in better "shape"? Yes. In a sporting context her "fitness" is fine because she claimed exhaustion after playing the same number of matches JJ did in the same time period (French-Wimbledon) before saying the same.

Could she lose some weight? Sure. Is her current "condition" preventing her from achieving success *or stopping her physically from competing when "fitness" comes into play*? No. Her 3-set record is fine and her body can handle a lot of matches/tournaments.

did you not see her physical meltdown against Elena yesterday? That was a straight set beatdown after she was up 4-0

Dementinator
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:57 PM
I saw Bartoli live at Edgbaston and she is not in the best of shape really, I wouldnt say she was fat as a normal person but she isnt an athlete at all, its true shes obviously quite a strong girl and it does give her some power and she is pretty solid, but she really does need to tone up if she wants to win even more matches, but some people dont have the Genetics to be a "Dementieva" or "Venus" etc and its unfair to say Bartoli isnt trying to improve, watching ehr practice at Edgbaston she was working hard and it could just be shes not GOING to be a super athlete, but she could perhaps make some improvements.

Tennis today IS about fitness, just check out a lot of the girls today, they are real athletes, some are not, Petrova is very "soft" looking in realality but NOT fat, Dinara is strong and solid so no probs there but maybe not good stamina, so if you can have the body of someone like Lena D etc you do have a great advantage, I have lost count of the Matches won by Elena purely due to her strength and fitness, so this aspect of the game should not be overlooked.

But remember, not everyone can be like that even with hard work.....

©@®eLess
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:06 PM
jelena is fit as hell...and she still never beat justine so fitness is not everything

MisterMan
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:09 PM
I'm not sure how any of us can question a Top 10 player. In the WORLD, she is number 10. I don't care if she weighs 250 pounds, she's a hell of a player to make it that far in her career.

jonny84
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:29 PM
For f***s sake.

Leave Marion alone. Why must there be so many threads about her weight and fitness.

She's a star of tennis right now, reached the Top10, and reached the Wimbledon final. She's been the best she has been in her tennis career.

Why not celebrate her instead of always digging at a true tennis star?

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:47 PM
did you not see her physical meltdown against Elena yesterday? That was a straight set beatdown after she was up 4-0
No, Britain doesn't get New Haven coverage until today, but Bartoli is coming off an ILLNESS, she has had the bug that Chakvetadze, Hantuchova and others have this summer so my question would be "what do you expect"? This is the same thing Hantuchova said she couldn't go for more than 3 shots in a rally without feeling it, Chakvetadze was barely practicing at all. This is Marion's first tournament back from said illness.

I'll also offer you this - did you see Golovin sucking for wind against JJ in Toronto last week? I don't see anyone questioning her "fitness" yet she was in physical trouble half way through the second set. Why? Because she LOOKS to be in better "shape", but shape and fitness are totally different things in a sporting context.

I play 5-a-side football every week and there is one lad who dies every single week after 40 minutes and is useless physically at the end. He's tall, slim and if you were picking who looked to be the "fittest" out of us who play you'd say he was one of two or three who looked in the best "shape". Has nothing to do with how "fit" he is though when it comes to competing.

Mark Spruce
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:52 PM
Totall agree with.



For f***s sake.

Leave Marion alone. Why must there be so many threads about her weight and fitness.

She's a star of tennis right now, reached the Top10, and reached the Wimbledon final. She's been the best she has been in her tennis career.

Why not celebrate her instead of always digging at a true tennis star?

stickwitju(ju)
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:24 PM
No big deal. Go to the tourneys and you'll see a lot of flabby thighs and jiggly tummies but the girls can still play when they need to. You're acting like they need to have bodies like Marion Jones to make a living on the tour.

BestShooterEver
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:36 PM
bartoli is one of the best retrievers on tour! did you see her at wimbledon?

faboozadoo15
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:46 PM
I think her illness played a factor. I've never seen a player exhausted that early in a match. Bartoli is actually a terrific three set player.

416_Man
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Hmm, I think Bartoli has lost a TON of weight since Estoril this year. Atleast about 10 - 15 lbs. She's got some weigh to go, but better big than obese.

njnetswill
Aug 24th, 2007, 05:19 PM
I don't think you can compare Petrova to Bartoli. :unsure:

TaxPower
Aug 24th, 2007, 06:56 PM
she has to loose more weight again

Thanx4nothin
Aug 24th, 2007, 07:12 PM
She's fine the way she is, her condition isn't preventing her winning big three set matches, people are just so judegemental, they're either too thin or too fat. She's been to the th round at the French, the final of Wimbledon and had other great results like the semis at Eastbourne, she shouldn't allow ninkumpoops insulting her weight to bring her down.

Bruno71
Aug 24th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I don't think Marion's weight should in and of itself shed any light on her fitness. If she's fit enough to win 3 set matches regularly, she's fit enough. But what I've seen a lot is her huffing & puffing or holding her side...and not just against Lena yesterday, but a lot. She was doing the same thing against JJ at RG. Players tend to wear their fatigue or injuries on their sleeve more when they're losing, so I'm sure it fits into that category. But there definitely seems to be a proclivity for fatiguing in Marion's case. She's just good enough sometimes to be able to overcome it.

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 09:52 PM
No, Britain doesn't get New Haven coverage until today, but Bartoli is coming off an ILLNESS, she has had the bug that Chakvetadze, Hantuchova and others have this summer so my question would be "what do you expect"? This is the same thing Hantuchova said she couldn't go for more than 3 shots in a rally without feeling it, Chakvetadze was barely practicing at all. This is Marion's first tournament back from said illness.

I'll also offer you this - did you see Golovin sucking for wind against JJ in Toronto last week? I don't see anyone questioning her "fitness" yet she was in physical trouble half way through the second set. Why? Because she LOOKS to be in better "shape", but shape and fitness are totally different things in a sporting context.

I play 5-a-side football every week and there is one lad who dies every single week after 40 minutes and is useless physically at the end. He's tall, slim and if you were picking who looked to be the "fittest" out of us who play you'd say he was one of two or three who looked in the best "shape". Has nothing to do with how "fit" he is though when it comes to competing.

Exactly! Just because someone doesn't look like a pencil doesn't mean they aren't fit. You can look a little bigger and still be fit, and you can look like a pencil and be totally unfit.

#1SteffiGraf#1
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:00 PM
I dont know if she was faking, or what the deal was...but she was huffing and puffing against Lena D yesterday after just a few games. She was dragging her feet and bending over in the 1st set! It was really hard to watch.

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:07 PM
I dont know if she was faking, or what the deal was...but she was huffing and puffing against Lena D yesterday after just a few games. She was dragging her feet and bending over in the 1st set! It was really hard to watch.

As someone already explained in here - she's been ill.

hablo
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:13 PM
Petrova and Safina are in no better shape and have been in and around the top 10. Depends entirely how you view the word "fitness" - is she "fit" as in if you saw her walking down the street would you assume she was an "athlete"? No. Can she handle a very demanding schedule playing more matches more regularly than people in better "shape"? Yes. In a sporting context her "fitness" is fine because she claimed exhaustion after playing the same number of matches JJ did in the same time period (French-Wimbledon) before saying the same.

Could she lose some weight? Sure. Is her current "condition" preventing her from achieving success *or stopping her physically from competing when "fitness" comes into play*? No. Her 3-set record is fine and her body can handle a lot of matches/tournaments.

Actually Safina is very fit and she looks like an athlete. I saw her practice in Toronto on a couple of occasions. Tv really does add pounds to her frame.
She's definitely fitter than Petrova. For me, your arguments lacks credibility the moment you included her in your post. :tape:

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:17 PM
Actually Safina is very fit and she looks like an athlete. I saw her practice in Toronto on a couple of occasions. Tv really does add pounds to her frame.
She's definitely fitter than Petrova. For me, your arguments lacks credibility the moment you included her in your post. :tape:

I haven't seen Safina play live since Rosmalen LAST year, but to me she always does look a little "podgy" - I think it may also be coz she seems to slouch when she stands, but I don't think that discredits his argument. She may well be fitter than Nadia though. ;)

Chris 84
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:19 PM
Funny how people make such a big issue of Marion's weight at the moment....she seems to be doing pretty well for herself despite being so "fat". If an overweight Marion can reach a Wimby final and beat Juju on the way, then a fully fit Marion would surely be unstoppable :D

Slutiana
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:24 PM
I'll also offer you this - did you see Golovin sucking for wind against JJ in Toronto last week? I don't see anyone questioning her "fitness" yet she was in physical trouble half way through the second set. Why? Because she LOOKS to be in better "shape", but shape and fitness are totally different things in a sporting context.


That match was acually a very competitve match with long points with both players having to run a lot in one point. That is the reason no one commented on this. Because they were high quality points with both players doing anything to win the point. If what you're saying is right, Jankovic is also "in physical trouble" since both players were gulping in the air after long points.

Actually Safina is very fit and she looks like an athlete. I saw her practice in Toronto on a couple of occasions. Tv really does add pounds to her frame.
She's definitely fitter than Petrova. For me, your arguments lacks credibility the moment you included her in your post. :tape:

Yep. Agreed. I saw safina at wimbly and i was very suprised at how athletic and slim she looked;)

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Actually Safina is very fit and she looks like an athlete. I saw her practice in Toronto on a couple of occasions. Tv really does add pounds to her frame.
She's definitely fitter than Petrova. For me, your arguments lacks credibility the moment you included her in your post. :tape:
I wasn't saying she wasn't "fit" though, I was talking about "shape" and I've made the distinction. This isn't what the average person on the street would expect an "athlete" to look like :

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/players/170/photos

Just as Bartoli is not what you would point to and say "My, what great shape she's in". It says nothing about her fitness though, that was precisely my point.

maxomax
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:34 PM
I saw Marion in Toronto and I was surprised, she was more fit than last year in Quebec city and was looking better than at Wimbledon on TV. I think TV is not the best place to judge of someone fitness..

hablo
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:36 PM
I wasn't saying she wasn't "fit" though, I was talking about "shape" and I've made the distinction. This isn't what the average person on the street would expect an "athlete" to look like :

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/players/170/photos

Just as Bartoli is not what you would point to and say "My, what great shape she's in". It says nothing about her fitness though, that was precisely my point.

It's too bad I couldn't take pics of Safina's practices because her current outfit does nothing for her shape. Have you ever seen her in real life because she looks like what you would expect an athlete to look like? :shrug:

Anyhow, Bartoli hasn't always had this shape. Not sure if her game is any better or worse : didn't get to see her matches on tv....

I saw Marion in Toronto and I was surprised, she was more fit than last year in Quebec city and was looking better than at Wimbledon on TV. I think TV is not the best place to judge of someone fitness..

Exactly.

************

When I've seen the guys in Toronto, I was amazed at how much smaller they looked. They didn't look as big or muscular as they seemed on tv.

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:49 PM
It's too bad I couldn't take pics of Safina's practices because her current outfit does nothing for her shape. Have you ever seen her in real life because she looks like what you would expect an athlete to look like? :shrug:
Precisely, I realise and expect that athletes come in all shapes and sizes, it's only people with an obsession with people's external "look" that would then translate that into assuming how it must automatically effect performance.

Daniela Hantuchova must be around the same height as Dinara, both are "athletic" in different ways because it can mean so many things - endurance, strength, speed, agility, whatever. Venus Williams has amazing court coverage and agility at the net, but she does not have a good record in 5 set matches this year and she gets self proclaimed "exhausted" in shorter spaces of time and playing less matches than Bartoli did to become that. Imagine Venus playing Marion's schedule - she physically wouldn't be able to handle it. Different people have different bodies with different needs, doesn't make people "fit" or "unfit" solely on their exterior look.

starr
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:50 PM
That's funny. When I see the women in person, I think they look more muscular than they do on TV. They look more athletic and more fit.

I haven't seen Bartoli since February, but she didn't look fit then. The funny thing is that a couple of years ago, I heard her father talking about his training methods to someone and he was talking about how he doesn't let Marion eat until she works a certain amount on the court and then she can eat. So, he rewards her with food. That seems strange to me.

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:51 PM
Precisely, I realise and expect that athletes come in all shapes and sizes, it's only people with an obsession with people's external "look" that would then translate that into assuming how it must automatically effect performance.

Daniela Hantuchova must be around the same height as Dinara, both are "athletic" in different ways because it can mean so many things - endurance, strength, speed, agility, whatever. Venus Williams has amazing court coverage and agility at the net, but she does not have a good record in 5 set matches this year and she gets self proclaimed "exhausted" in shorter spaces of time and playing less matches than Bartoli did to become that. Imagine Venus playing Marion's schedule - she physically wouldn't be able to handle it. Different people have different bodies with different needs, doesn't make people "fit" or "unfit" solely on their exterior look.

Venus is playing against the guys? :p (5 set matches - no wonder she hasn't got a good record). :p

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:56 PM
Venus is playing against the guys? :p (5 set matches - no wonder she hasn't got a good record). :p
Slipped into ATP mode there... :p Henman just retired, I have bad records in 5 set matches on the brain... :lol:

hablo
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:58 PM
Precisely, I realise and expect that athletes come in all shapes and sizes, it's only people with an obsession with people's external "look" that would then translate that into assuming how it must automatically effect performance.

Daniela Hantuchova must be around the same height as Dinara, both are "athletic" in different ways because it can mean so many things - endurance, strength, speed, agility, whatever. Venus Williams has amazing court coverage and agility at the net, but she does not have a good record in 5 set matches this year and she gets self proclaimed "exhausted" in shorter spaces of time and playing less matches than Bartoli did to become that. Imagine Venus playing Marion's schedule - she physically wouldn't be able to handle it. Different people have different bodies with different needs, doesn't make people "fit" or "unfit" solely on their exterior look.

:tape:

It's all good. I don't think you get my point, especially about Dinara.

But since you mention Daniela. I can see why you have that point of you.

I think people have tougher expectations of athletes since it is their job, in a sense, to take care of their bodies and look a certain way, depending on whichever sport they participate in. Footballer Ronaldo gets alot of teasing for the way he looks now, for instance. Same with hockey player from the Montreal Canadiens named Latendresse. It comes with the territory.

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Slipped into ATP mode there... :p Henman just retired, I have bad records in 5 set matches on the brain... :lol:

:lol: Fair enough. ;)

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:02 PM
:tape:

It's all good. I don't think you get my point, especially about Dinara.

But since you mention Daniela. I can see why you have that point of you.

I think people have tougher expectations of athletes since it is their job, in a sense, to take care of their bodies and look a certain way, depending on whichever sport they participate in. Footballer Ronaldo gets alot of teasing for the way he looks now, for instance. Same with hockey player from the Montreal Canadiens named Latendresse. It comes with the territory.

But hablo - he's not saying that Dinara's unfit. He's saying that she has a different shaped body than some players who others consider to be fit, and because of that, some people may consider DInara to be unfit, when she actually is quite fit. ;)

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:16 PM
:tape:

It's all good. I don't think you get my point, especially about Dinara.

But since you mention Daniela. I can see why you have that point of you.

I think people have tougher expectations of athletes since it is their job, in a sense, to take care of their bodies and look a certain way, depending on whichever sport they participate in. Footballer Ronaldo gets alot of teasing for the way he looks now, for instance. Same with hockey player from the Montreal Canadiens named Latendresse. It comes with the territory.
Indeed, the average person would look at Daniela and think she must be very "fit", but that girl is underweight even now and I don't think that is good for her overall fitness. She does though have a good record in *3* set matches (;) ) and has a demanding schedule which she pulls off so it obviously works for her. I preferred the way she looked in 2004 when she put on weight after her problems the year before but this is her natural shape and so she has to work with that just as people who may look to the average person a little overweight for an athlete (which is just ignorant).

I think I understand what you're saying about Dinara, for you she is not out of shape and looks like an athlete - I get that and do agree with you, I only mentioned her (and Petrova) because they are people that your average person wouldn't expect to be particularly "fit" because of their shape. She's a big frame but not bulging muscles like, say a Sybille Bammer who has a very "gym" type look most people would identify as "athletic". Doesn't mean she's not fit though.

The Ronaldo stuff is ridiculous, he got diagnosed with a gland thing this week and it doesn't surprise me. People thought it because of a/ his shape and b/ his workrate in games, but if you're training every day and have 2 matches a week where you're running miles then there's not much more you can do.

hablo
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:35 PM
But hablo - he's not saying that Dinara's unfit. He's saying that she has a different shaped body than some players who others consider to be fit, and because of that, some people may consider DInara to be unfit, when she actually is quite fit. ;)No worries, you don't get my point either. ;)

Andrew Laeddis
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Petrova and Safina are in no better shape and have been in and around the top 10. Depends entirely how you view the word "fitness" - is she "fit" as in if you saw her walking down the street would you assume she was an "athlete"? No. Can she handle a very demanding schedule playing more matches more regularly than people in better "shape"? Yes. In a sporting context her "fitness" is fine because she claimed exhaustion after playing the same number of matches JJ did in the same time period (French-Wimbledon) before saying the same.

Could she lose some weight? Sure. Is her current "condition" preventing her from achieving success *or stopping her physically from competing when "fitness" comes into play*? No. Her 3-set record is fine and her body can handle a lot of matches/tournaments.

yes but if u hit with two handed you need to be very fast. she need to lose a few pounds and turn her fat into muscle if she wants to do well on a non grass surface or opponent will continue to move her around and beat her and safina hasnt done much this year. and petrova seems to be in better shape than bartoli.

Shepster
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:42 PM
yes but if u hit with two handed you need to be very fast. she need to lose a few pounds and turn her fat into muscle if she wants to do well on a non grass surface or opponent will continue to move her around and beat her and safina hasnt done much this year. and petrova seems to be in better shape than bartoli.
This is the thing though, her footwork and anticipation is excellent and gets her into postition so she doesn't need to be Kim Clijsters at the back of the court. Seriously, if being "very fast" was key to her game how on earth did she beat JJ, Krajicek and Henin back-to-back at Wimbledon? She was not "too slow" nor out of position, she was continually there making plays - nothing physical got in the way of her success.

Also, this is the only year she's had good results *outside* of a hardcourt. Hard is traditionally by far her best surface, it's what she won the US Open Juniors on and is the reason she's got where she has. It's stepping up this year on clay and grass that has pushed her to her heights but she was a top 20 player anyway based pretty much solely on her hardcourt performances.

Bruno71
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:46 PM
This is the thing though, her footwork and anticipation is excellent and gets her into postition so she doesn't need to be Kim Clijsters at the back of the court. Seriously, if being "very fast" was key to her game how on earth did she beat JJ, Krajicek and Henin back-to-back at Wimbledon? She was not "too slow" nor out of position, she was continually there making plays - nothing physical got in the way of her success.


Her footwork and anticipation *are* excellent, and that's what gave JuJu & JJ fits at Wimbledon...Marion gave them every reason to believe she couldn't cover the court like that in her previous matches with each. Her lack of speed can still be exploited though...hitting behind her seems to work most every time if done correctly, since she has to work that much harder to make it back into court and can't stop on a dime like the better movers.

DutchieGirl
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:59 PM
No worries, you don't get my point either. ;)

WHich is what exactly then? :scratch: That you don't find Dinara bigger looking? Well I said before that I do...