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selesbooz
Aug 24th, 2007, 12:44 AM
Serena 15-2
Masha 14-3
Ivanovic 13-3
Henin 12-1
Kuzy and Jankovic 11-3
Anna 10-3
Momo and Dani 8-3
Nadia 5-3

I guess that every one is right, Masha is having a shithole year.:sad:

sharafann
Aug 24th, 2007, 12:48 AM
Serena 15-2
Masha 14-3
Ivanovic 13-3
Henin 12-1
Kuzy and Jankovic 11-3
Anna 10-3
Momo and Dani 8-3
Nadia 5-3

I guess that every one is right, Masha is having a shithole year.:sad:
they only see the bad about maria:rolleyes: , and u know what? at the end of the day she has won 2 mayors, a total of 16 singles titles, been number1 of the world two times and all of that... at the age of 20:drool:

Tennisstar86
Aug 24th, 2007, 12:59 AM
they only see the bad about maria:rolleyes: , and u know what? at the end of the day she has won 2 mayors, a total of 16 singles titles, been number1 of the world two times and all of that... at the age of 20:drool:

People dont just see the bad..... i love these stats... lol my fav is her record against the top ten..... Sharapova is having a bad year...she knows it. US Open might change it around... but she has to win to do that, because theres noone in her side that a victory over means all that much...

And by the way... At 20 Venus has 2 majors and at 21 she had 4....
At 21 Serena had 5 majors... At 17 Hingis had 3 and at 21 Justine had 3.


Oh and by the time Seles was 20 she had 8....... so whats your point?

selesbooz
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:10 AM
People dont just see the bad..... i love these stats... lol my fav is her record against the top ten..... Sharapova is having a bad year...she knows it. US Open might change it around... but she has to win to do that, because theres noone in her side that a victory over means all that much...

And by the way... At 20 Venus has 2 majors and at 21 she had 4....
At 21 Serena had 5 majors... At 17 Hingis had 3 and at 21 Justine had 3.


Oh and by the time Seles was 20 she had 8....... so whats your point?

Maria is having a down year but her bad year is better then others best.:worship:

sharafann
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:24 AM
People dont just see the bad..... i love these stats... lol my fav is her record against the top ten..... Sharapova is having a bad year...she knows it. US Open might change it around... but she has to win to do that, because theres noone in her side that a victory over means all that much...

And by the way... At 20 Venus has 2 majors and at 21 she had 4....
At 21 Serena had 5 majors... At 17 Hingis had 3 and at 21 Justine had 3.


Oh and by the time Seles was 20 she had 8....... so whats your point?
whatever chill out DUUUUDE:rolleyes:

Ntour
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:29 AM
but 12-1 is the same as 14-3 if not better

and considering maria has played one more slam than juju that is horrendous

Aaron.
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:30 AM
they only see the bad about maria:rolleyes: , and u know what? at the end of the day she has won 2 mayors, a total of 16 singles titles, been number1 of the world two times and all of that... at the age of 20:drool: moyrs? nice grammar

sharafann
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:31 AM
but 12-1 is better than 14-3

and considering maria has played one more slam than juju that is horrendous
horrendus??!:confused: ooook:rolleyes:

@Sweet Cleopatra
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:41 AM
http://www.asmilies.com/smiliespic/psmilie/012.gif (http://www.asmilies.com)

Tennisstar86
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:46 AM
Maria's head to head against the top ten (3-3) its obvious her draws are helping her.... I'll make a post of the entire top ten....

Buitenzorg
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:53 AM
In ranking order


01. Henin 92.30%
02. S Williams 88.23%
03. Sharapova 82.35%
04. Ivanovic 81.25%
05. Jankovic 78.57%
05. Kuznetsova 78.57%
07. Chakvetadze 76.92%
08. Mauresmo 72.73%
08. Hantuchova 72.73%
10. Petrova 62.50%

Buitenzorg
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:54 AM
Basically, Justine is still the best :)

sharafann
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:54 AM
moyrs? nice grammar
moyrs ??? I didnt write that

Chunchun
Aug 24th, 2007, 01:56 AM
Should this thread be merged with the "catwalk" thread? :haha:

LoveAndy
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:10 AM
Serena 15-2
Masha 14-3
Ivanovic 13-3
Henin 12-1
Kuzy and Jankovic 11-3
Anna 10-3
Momo and Dani 8-3
Nadia 5-3

I guess that every one is right, Masha is having a shithole year.:sad:

Henin 12-1 92.3%
Serena 15-2 88.2%
Masha 14-3 82.3%
Ivanovic 13-3 81.2%
Kuzy and Jankovic 11-3 78.6%
Anna 10-3 76.9%
Momo and Dani 8-3 72.7%
Nadia 5-3 62.5%

faboozadoo15
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:32 AM
:tape: If Maria wins the US Open, she could easily be the ITF player of the year. What horrendous play. I don't know how fans of her manage to get out of bed in the morning.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:44 AM
http://www.asmilies.com/smiliespic/psmilie/012.gif (http://www.asmilies.com)

http://www.asmilies.com/smiliespic/psmilie/012.gif = :yeah:

Donny
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:54 AM
:tape: If Maria wins the US Open, she could easily be the ITF player of the year. What horrendous play. I don't know how fans of her manage to get out of bed in the morning.

Over Henin?

faboozadoo15
Aug 24th, 2007, 02:58 AM
Over Henin?

Um, yes. They'd each have a major. Maria would have another final and a semifinal.
It would be impossible for Henin to top that even if she made the final at the US Open since Maria also made the 4th round at Wimbledon.

Tennisstar86
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:01 AM
Um, yes. They'd each have a major. Maria would have another final and a semifinal.
It would be impossible for Henin to top that even if she made the final at the US Open since Maria also made the 4th round at Wimbledon.

Henin made the semis of Wimbledon. and if she makes the finals of the US OPEN? thats another final....

PLUS shes 13-1 against the top ten this year maria 3-3...... but yeah Maria barely gets a title give her an award... that seems to be how the itf many on this board think....

Brooks.
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:13 AM
if Serena loses in the Quarters again..I am gonna be sad :tear:

faboozadoo15
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Henin made the semis of Wimbledon. and if she makes the finals of the US OPEN? thats another final....

PLUS shes 13-1 against the top ten this year maria 3-3...... but yeah Maria barely gets a title give her an award... that seems to be how the itf many on this board think....

:haha: ITF doesn't take into account wins over top 10 players.

Honestly, do you even follow tennis? I'm giving you the easy out here...
Do you even know the difference between the ITF and the WTA?

:spit:

But yes, Maria would have the last 16 performance over Justine's DNP.

Donny
Aug 24th, 2007, 03:25 AM
:haha: ITF doesn't take into account wins over top 10 players.

Honestly, do you even follow tennis? I'm giving you the easy out here...
Do you even know the difference between the ITF and the WTA?

:spit:

But yes, Maria would have the last 16 performance over Justine's DNP.

I think you're mistaken.

From what I see online, the ITF has what it calls "World Champions". This is an award giving to the player who gives, in their opinion, the most outstanding performances for the calendar year.

Henin, despite winning less slams than Mauresmo, won this award.

http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/3/newsroom/stories/?ContentID=1008

LONDON, England - The ITF announced on Monday, December 11 that Justine Henin-Hardenne (BEL) and Roger Federer (SUI) are the 2006 ITF World Champions.

So, obviously, slam performances (or wins) aren't paramount.

What you may be thinking of is the International Tennis Writers Association Player of the Year. Which Amelie won. And which has nothing to do with the ITF.

http://www.ladiescourt.com/2006/12/06/amelie-mauresmo-named-player-of-the-year-by-tennis-writers-association/

The International Tennis Writers Association selected Roger Federer and Amelie Mauresmo as their Players of the Year. Not only that, but also gave them the ITWA’s Ambassador for Tennis award.

heytennis
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:23 AM
Maria's the 6th most successful player this year. Last year you could argue she was the 2 most successful. People just expected more from her.

It isn't the losses that are weird, its the scorelines. The showed she isn't a fighter all the time and can have off days like everyone else.

She probably would have avoided some of the abuse this year by winning a title before August too.

AcesHigh
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:35 AM
Winning ITF player of hte year would be quite ridiculous.

However, Sharapova is not having a bad year by any means, due to a somewhat resurgent second half.

She's just not performing up to the hype the media and fans gave after her USO 06 win.

Havok
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:47 AM
:haha: ITF doesn't take into account wins over top 10 players.

Honestly, do you even follow tennis? I'm giving you the easy out here...
Do you even know the difference between the ITF and the WTA?

:spit:

But yes, Maria would have the last 16 performance over Justine's DNP.
Don't be retarded. If Maria wins the USO, her and Justine are tied one slam a piece. Maria has so far F, SF, 4r. Justine has W and SF. You can throw out that garbage Wimbledon 4r, making the QF are things that are noted, not prior rounds if your an elite player.

That and Justine has more titles won this year and has been #1 for far more longer. Justine is beating the top players at the Slams, Maria is crumbling in easy straight sets.

faboozadoo15
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:51 AM
I think you're mistaken.

From what I see online, the ITF has what it calls "World Champions". This is an award giving to the player who gives, in their opinion, the most outstanding performances for the calendar year.

Henin, despite winning less slams than Mauresmo, won this award.



So, obviously, slam performances (or wins) aren't paramount.

What you may be thinking of is the International Tennis Writers Association Player of the Year. Which Amelie won. And which has nothing to do with the ITF.

:tape: You're not getting it. Justine reached all four finals of the ITF tourneys. That's special. It's based on performaces in all the majors.

faboozadoo15
Aug 24th, 2007, 04:53 AM
Don't be retarded. If Maria wins the USO, her and Justine are tied one slam a piece. Maria has so far F, SF, 4r. Justine has W and SF. You can throw out that garbage Wimbledon 4r, making the QF are things that are noted, not prior rounds if your an elite player.

That and Justine has more titles won this year and has been #1 for far more longer. Justine is beating the top players at the Slams, Maria is crumbling in easy straight sets.

:spit: Was just called a "retard" by someone who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". :haha:

justine&coria
Aug 24th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Where is Venus in these stats ?

mankind
Aug 24th, 2007, 09:25 AM
:spit: Was just called a "retard" by someone who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're". :haha:

:o

You just got owned. So yeah, draw attention away from it by pointing to someone else's grammar. :yeah:

Direwolf
Aug 24th, 2007, 09:46 AM
Where is Venus in these stats ?

she is
9-1

thats like 90 percent
just 2nd to justine

selesbooz
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Where is Venus in these stats ?

Venus is not a Top Ten players:kiss:

Tennisstar86
Aug 24th, 2007, 11:53 PM
Venus is not a Top Ten players:kiss:

Not yet.... shes 8th in the race though..... and 13th considering she doesnt have points for Us Open. or Austrailian.. I think thats pretty good....

misael
Aug 25th, 2007, 12:11 AM
She has three titles to defend, if she does'nt , she could end the year at #7.

misael
Aug 25th, 2007, 12:13 AM
She has three titles to defend, if she does'nt , she could end the year at #7.

I mean Maria,has alot of points to defend after the UsOpen.

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 12:13 AM
She has three titles to defend, if she does'nt , she could end the year at #7.

Who has three titles to defend? lol....

Thanx4nothin
Aug 25th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Maria is having a down year but her bad year is better then others best.:worship:

:rolleyes: so 1 final a semi and a third rnd is better than a win and a semi, or a win and 2 quarters, indeed, her worst is better than the others' best :rolleyes:

Volcana
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:00 AM
I guess that every one is right, Masha is having a shithole year.:sad:It's a question of whether you consider Sharapova an elite player, or just a very good one. For an elite player, any year where you don't win a slam is a 'shithole year'. Any year you do wina slam is at least okay.

For a 'very good' player, winning a Tier I and maintaining a top five ranking is a good year. For 2007, so far, Sharapova is having a good year for a Mary Jo Fernandez type of player. (Specifically Fernandez '90 - '93.) She's NOT having a good years for a Williams or a Seles or a Henin.

Cp6uja
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:16 AM
It's a question of whether you consider Sharapova an elite player, or just a very good one. For an elite player, any year where you don't win a slam is a 'shithole year'. Any year you do wina slam is at least okay.

For a 'very good' player, winning a Tier I and maintaining a top five ranking is a good year. For 2007, so far, Sharapova is having a good year for a Mary Jo Fernandez type of player. (Specifically Fernandez '90 - '93.) She's NOT having a good years for a Williams or a Seles or a Henin.But if she win USO (and after draw she already reach final) this will be her best career season (winner, runnerup, and first RG SF)!

DragonFlame
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:29 AM
with her draws i'd be surprised if she didn't make the final:tape: You can look at wins all you want but what's important are wins over elite players at important tournaments. sharapova has crumbled every time this year. Luckily for her somehow the usopen draw is statistically HUGE in her favor so she can defend most of her points by getting to the final pretty easily. How 'shocking':o

MrSerenaWilliams
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:31 AM
Are Kim/Venus the only Tier I winners she's beaten all year?

sharafann
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:32 AM
Are Kim/Venus the only Tier I winners she's beaten all year?

chakvetadze also

MrSerenaWilliams
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:33 AM
TOTALLY forgot about Moscow :lol:

sharafann
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:35 AM
TOTALLY forgot about Moscow :lol::p

faboozadoo15
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:38 AM
She has three titles to defend, if she does'nt , she could end the year at #7.

:confused: Sharapova is 4th in the race, which is what we look to for year end rankings. She will likely go further than Ivanovic and Jankovic here and will gain on them. Also, Jankovic has maybe topped out for points :tape:

Sharapova also has a lot to gain in Moscow. She could play an even smarter schedule. Can also gain at YEC too, possibly.

selesbooz
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:47 AM
Are Kim/Venus the only Tier I winners she's beaten all year?

When was the last time that Venus won a tier 1:lol: but any ways.

DragonFlame
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:49 AM
Can also gain at YEC too, possibly.

to gain at YEC she actually has to win against venus, serena, justine, jelena and ana you know?:tape:

faboozadoo15
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:52 AM
to gain at YEC she actually has to win against venus, serena, justine, jelena and ana you know?:tape:

:confused: She's beaten all these players before, no?

:tape: Never stopped Dementieva from showing up to get her ass whooped a few times.

MrSerenaWilliams
Aug 25th, 2007, 01:56 AM
When was the last time that Venus won a tier 1:lol: but any ways.

I was trying to help Maria out, but I mean Anna's her bitch, so Venus/Kim are the only Slam winners that Maria's beaten all year.

That's ACTUALLY not bad, but the thing is she beat them both before April and hasn't beaten (or taken a set off of) a player of that caliber since. But her game is back together, and she should pick up some good wins in the fall (she really won't have to beat anyone to get far @ the Open).

:confused: She's beaten all these players before, no?

:tape: Never stopped Dementieva from showing up to get her ass whooped a few times.

Well that's because Elena played every other week. :shrug:

And after losing 6 straight sets to Serena, I really don't see her beating/taking a set from her anytime soon :shrug:

CJ07
Aug 25th, 2007, 03:03 AM
Maria is having a good year - I think people are overestimating her as a player.

She is a very good player, but she's not a great player. (Like a Evert, Nav, Graf, Seles, Serena, etc.) Right now, she has about a year or two to see if she's in the Venus-Henin trajectory, but honestly I doubt it.

But for a very good player, she has had a very consistent year. She's only won one tournament with a weak field, but she has done well otherwise.

However, people are mistaken if they expect Sharapova to be having a bad year based on her being a great player, because she isn't. She will benefit from a weak generation, but if she's having cortizone shots at 20, and Henin-Venus-Serena can hold out for at least another 2 full seasons, I don't see her being in that *elite* category.

So based on that, yes, she is having a good year.

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 03:07 AM
Maria is having a good year - I think people are overestimating her as a player.

She is a very good player, but she's not a great player. (Like a Evert, Nav, Graf, Seles, Serena, etc.) Right now, she has about a year or two to see if she's in the Venus-Henin trajectory, but honestly I doubt it.

But for a very good player, she has had a very consistent year. She's only won one tournament with a weak field, but she has done well otherwise.

However, people are mistaken if they expect Sharapova to be having a bad year based on her being a great player, because she isn't. She will benefit from a weak generation, but if she's having cortizone shots at 20, and Henin-Venus-Serena can hold out for at least another 2 full seasons, I don't see her being in that *elite* category.

So based on that, yes, she is having a good year.

I expect Venus... Serena... Henin to play for at least another 5....

sharafann
Aug 25th, 2007, 03:09 AM
Maria is having a good year - I think people are overestimating her as a player.

She is a very good player, but she's not a great player. (Like a Evert, Nav, Graf, Seles, Serena, etc.) Right now, she has about a year or two to see if she's in the Venus-Henin trajectory, but honestly I doubt it.

But for a very good player, she has had a very consistent year. She's only won one tournament with a weak field, but she has done well otherwise.

However, people are mistaken if they expect Sharapova to be having a bad year based on her being a great player, because she isn't. She will benefit from a weak generation, but if she's having cortizone shots at 20, and Henin-Venus-Serena can hold out for at least another 2 full seasons, I don't see her being in that *elite* category.

So based on that, yes, she is having a good year.
well I don't agree with u..I think she's a great player..only a great player can be number 1 at age 18. She had problems with injuries the entire year, u just have to watch how she played at the end of last year(free injured) to realize

CJ07
Aug 25th, 2007, 03:52 AM
well I don't agree with u..I think she's a great player..only a great player can be number 1 at age 18. She had problems with injuries the entire year, u just have to watch how she played at the end of last year(free injured) to realize
Regardless of whether she is injured or not, there are at least 3 players who when healthy and at their best, will beat her every time on every surface.

Sharapova's problem is that she is everything well, but she does nothing great. She doesn't have the best serve, she doesn't have the best forehand, she doesn't have the best backhand, she doesn't have the best movement. She has a top 5 of all of those, but she isn't the best.

As long as she's not the best at something, you can't call her great.

Donny
Aug 25th, 2007, 03:57 AM
Regardless of whether she is injured or not, there are at least 3 players who when healthy and at their best, will beat her every time on every surface.

Sharapova's problem is that she is everything well, but she does nothing great. She doesn't have the best serve, she doesn't have the best forehand, she doesn't have the best backhand, she doesn't have the best movement. She has a top 5 of all of those, but she isn't the best.

As long as she's not the best at something, you can't call her great.

There are at least ten people in the top twenty with better movement than Sharapova. I agree with everything else though.

heytennis
Aug 25th, 2007, 04:48 AM
Regardless of whether she is injured or not, there are at least 3 players who when healthy and at their best, will beat her every time on every surface.
Sharapova's problem is that she is everything well, but she does nothing great. She doesn't have the best serve, she doesn't have the best forehand, she doesn't have the best backhand, she doesn't have the best movement. She has a top 5 of all of those, but she isn't the best.

As long as she's not the best at something, you can't call her great.

You're joking right? Who are these players?

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 04:51 AM
You're joking right? Who are these players?

I have to agree... At their Best Venus, Serena and Henin are better than her. Henin on Clay... Venus on grass and Hard. And Serena on Hard and REbound ace....

heytennis
Aug 25th, 2007, 05:08 AM
I have to agree... At their Best Venus, Serena and Henin are better than her. Henin on Clay... Venus on grass and Hard. And Serena on Hard and REbound ace....

There aren't any top players that Maria has never beaten. She has beaten Venus 3 times, Serena 2 times and Henin 2 times. Maybe surface matters but the poster said there are 3 players who Maria could never beat.

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 05:13 AM
There aren't any top players that Maria has never beaten. She has beaten Venus 3 times, Serena 2 times and Henin 2 times. Maybe surface matters but the poster said there are 3 players who Maria could never beat.

actually the poster said 3 players who at their best..... and at their best Maria just isnt ready to beat them.... She needs to work on her game... and a plan B.....

I know you say well of course if Venus is at her best sharapova would have to be at her best so she wouldnt need a plan B. But in fact against Venus Sharapova Does need a plan B. because Venus plays her game only better and shes faster.... This is why Sharapova isnt a Great palyer as the poster said.... Shes good... but not the best.. so when she faces the best she has no other route except to "hit" it harder....

faboozadoo15
Aug 25th, 2007, 05:22 AM
Maria has beaten Justine in Justine's fourth consecutive major final, has defeated Serena as the two time defending champion in a Wimbledon final, and has beaten a healthy Venus 3 times on fast courts.

It's ludicrous to say Sharapova can't beat these players.
She's done it within the last 52 weeks to two of them we're talking about!

But I guess we're talking about the Sharapova of 2007 who has a shoulder injury and can't serve. And thus isn't it more about Maria's form and health in these matches in question?

CJ07
Aug 25th, 2007, 05:50 AM
No one is saying that she isn't capable of beating these players, what I am saying is that she cannot beat those *peak* players. You cannot say Justine, Serena or Venus (especially) was anywhere near their best in any of those matches. You also can't deny 6-1 6-1, 6-1 6-2, 6-1 6-3 beat downs. Serve or no serve, she was going to lose.

Listen, Sharapova is a very good player. However, as someone else said, she has no plan B when her plan A isn't working. And its because (Venus & Serena especially) just do everything she does better when they're playing well. What Sharapova can do, is be more consistent than them, and thats why she's done well.

A
Q. Was that just sort of a career day from her and not a great one from you?
MARIA SHARAPOVA: Not a great one in the first set for me. You know, didn't really have a rhythm. I don't know if it was the wind or a slow start. She got off to a fast start. You know, I just didn't feel really comfortable in the first set.
In the third game in the second, I started feeling good. I started serving a lot better. But, you know, at the end of the day, uhm, you know, she was averaging her first serve 115 miles per hour, where my first serve, the fastest one was 115.
So I think I couldn't really give myself any chances on the return. I think that put a little extra pressure on my serve. Even though I didn't serve that bad in the second set, you know, she just was on top of it.

So lets through out that whole serve thing.

Anyway, Sharapova simply is going to be this generation's Sanchez-Vicario. Not in terms of game style, obviously, but in terms of being a very good player who can beat the best, but at the end of the day the other players are just superior.

CJ07
Aug 25th, 2007, 05:56 AM
You're joking right? Who are these players?
Justine Henin, Venus Williams, Serena Williams.

Sharapova could maybe beat Henin on fast hourcourts gamewise, but Justine Mental > Sharapova Mental. It'd be close. Yes she won the Open 2006, but she would lose to peak ('03) Henin most likely.

But thats about as it'd get And if someone starts talking about clay and the sisters, Venus has the second highest win % on clay on tour and has won every tournament outside of FO (Final) and Berlin (Final). Serena won the biggest two (FO & Rome) and obviously Henin would make Sharapova look stupid at her best.

On Grass? Venus has shown she's better, and if Serena 2002 showed up she'd win easily in straights. Justine? Juju can neutralize Sharapova's grass game with her low slice and volley skills, and could move her around the court.

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 05:58 AM
No one is saying that she isn't capable of beating these players, what I am saying is that she cannot beat those *peak* players. You cannot say Justine, Serena or Venus (especially) was anywhere near their best in any of those matches. You also can't deny 6-1 6-1, 6-1 6-2, 6-1 6-3 beat downs. Serve or no serve, she was going to lose.

Listen, Sharapova is a very good player. However, as someone else said, she has no plan B when her plan A isn't working. And its because (Venus & Serena especially) just do everything she does better when they're playing well. What Sharapova can do, is be more consistent than them, and thats why she's done well.

A
Q. Was that just sort of a career day from her and not a great one from you?
MARIA SHARAPOVA: Not a great one in the first set for me. You know, didn't really have a rhythm. I don't know if it was the wind or a slow start. She got off to a fast start. You know, I just didn't feel really comfortable in the first set.
In the third game in the second, I started feeling good. I started serving a lot better. But, you know, at the end of the day, uhm, you know, she was averaging her first serve 115 miles per hour, where my first serve, the fastest one was 115.
So I think I couldn't really give myself any chances on the return. I think that put a little extra pressure on my serve. Even though I didn't serve that bad in the second set, you know, she just was on top of it.

So lets through out that whole serve thing.

Anyway, Sharapova simply is going to be this generation's Sanchez-Vicario. Not in terms of game style, obviously, but in terms of being a very good player who can beat the best, but at the end of the day the other players are just superior.

Good point... I think of her more of a Pierce except without the same shot making.....

faboozadoo15
Aug 25th, 2007, 06:13 AM
No one is saying that she isn't capable of beating these players, what I am saying is that she cannot beat those *peak* players. You cannot say Justine, Serena or Venus (especially) was anywhere near their best in any of those matches. You also can't deny 6-1 6-1, 6-1 6-2, 6-1 6-3 beat downs. Serve or no serve, she was going to lose.


You do realize how stupid this all sounds, don't you? You can just dismiss all of Maria's wins over these players (even comfortable wins where both players were in form...) because they you allege that they were "nowhere near their best" (and may I say, without even providing any substance to that argument) blah blah blah, but Sharapova throwing in a double fault or two per service game isn't indicative of the fact that she herself is in poor form? Ridiculous.

Sharapova has beaten Venus more often than she's lost to her, and two of her wins were convincing enough, only one was close. Maria has also beaten Justine rather comfortably on hardcourts twice.

It's impossible to say what would be different about past matches if Maria had her serve. It's as ridiculous to assert that she would have won as it is to say she surely had no chance anyway. The serve is the single most important shot in tennis, and if you can't hold serve (or get it in the box), and your opponent is zoning on serve, there's no pressure on them and increased pressure on you. There's really no telling how different these matches would be...

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 06:35 AM
You do realize how stupid this all sounds, don't you? You can just dismiss all of Maria's wins over these players (even comfortable wins where both players were in form...) because they you allege that they were "nowhere near their best" (and may I say, without even providing any substance to that argument) blah blah blah, but Sharapova throwing in a double fault or two per service game isn't indicative of the fact that she herself is in poor form? Ridiculous.

Sharapova has beaten Venus more often than she's lost to her, and two of her wins were convincing enough, only one was close. Maria has also beaten Justine rather comfortably on hardcourts twice.

It's impossible to say what would be different about past matches if Maria had her serve. It's as ridiculous to assert that she would have won as it is to say she surely had no chance anyway. The serve is the single most important shot in tennis, and if you can't hold serve (or get it in the box), and your opponent is zoning on serve, there's no pressure on them and increased pressure on you. There's really no telling how different these matches would be...

Tell that to Dementieva.........

faboozadoo15
Aug 25th, 2007, 06:37 AM
Tell that to Dementieva.........

What do Dementieva's service woes have to do with Sharapova?
If anything, it proves my points. Most people (including Elena) would say that Dementieva would be a major champion if her serve was a weapon.

It's what's kept her from the top. :shrug:

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 06:45 AM
What do Dementieva's service woes have to do with Sharapova?
If anything, it proves my points. Most people (including Elena) would say that Dementieva would be a major champion if her serve was a weapon.

It's what's kept her from the top. :shrug:

insecure much? i was making a sarcastic comment... but if you really want me to play devils advocate Sharapova's made 1 more Grand Slam Final than Dementieva......

faboozadoo15
Aug 25th, 2007, 06:51 AM
insecure much? i was making a sarcastic comment... but if you really want me to play devils advocate Sharapova's made 1 more Grand Slam Final than Dementieva......

What? I just basically said that Dementieva herself and her fans would undoubtedly say the serve is what's kept Elena from winning.

:tape: Elena's got 5 years on Maria, and Maria's won 2 of hers.... so. :banana:

Tennisstar86
Aug 25th, 2007, 06:56 AM
What? I just basically said that Dementieva herself and her fans would undoubtedly say the serve is what's kept Elena from winning.

:tape: Elena's got 5 years on Maria, and Maria's won 2 of hers.... so. :banana:

I was agreeing with you bringing up Dementieva....:help:

Donny
Aug 25th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Maria has beaten Justine in Justine's fourth consecutive major final, has defeated Serena as the two time defending champion in a Wimbledon final, and has beaten a healthy Venus 3 times on fast courts.

It's ludicrous to say Sharapova can't beat these players.
She's done it within the last 52 weeks to two of them we're talking about!

But I guess we're talking about the Sharapova of 2007 who has a shoulder injury and can't serve. And thus isn't it more about Maria's form and health in these matches in question?

Serena serves better than Maria (better than any woman in the world actually), returns serve better (better than anyone in the world actually), moves better, and hits harder. She volleys better than Maria.

Venus (when playing well, but that rarely happens now, it seems) serves better than Maria, returns better than Maria, moves wayyyyyy better, and hits harder.

Maria is an offensive baseliner; Serena and Venus at their respective best is the pinnacle of offensive baseline tennis.

But of course, you'd say that's up for debate. So I ask: do you honestly think Maria, of fall last year, would be capable of beating Serena fro mthe 02' to '03 period?

thrust
Aug 25th, 2007, 02:06 PM
As of now, Maria^s year does not compare to Justine^s or Serena^s. Accept this reality!