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tennisIlove09
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:37 PM
When will, or will, Justine pass Serena in terms of 'greatness'. Serena currently has 8 majors; Justine 6. The way it has been going lately, Justine will pass Serena. (Since Justine won her first Slam; Serena has won 3, Justine 6 ... ). Justine has been able to stay healthy easier than Serena, which means she's able to play more, which means she will win more titles. Justine's also been year end #1 more times than Serena, and has an Olympic singles medal, which Serena does not have.

So what will it take? 2 more Slams? Just a Wimbledon title? 3 more Slams?

Petersmiler
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:52 PM
*runs away scared*

*runs back but stays only long enough to squeak* 'At least two slams, providing one is Wimbledon'

sfselesfan
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:53 PM
This thread's destiny...

http://seacat.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/perfect_storm_big_wave.jpg

SF

AllezH1
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:54 PM
Here we go again...

Tennisstar86
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM
to pass Serena she has to win 3 slams.... and really i dont think she "can"... shes gotta win other than the french....which she hasnt done in a few years....As Ive been saying this US OPEN is very important.... If Serena wins I dont think anyone will pass her total... If Henin wins shes still on the hunt... If Venus wins... she'll pass them both in the end in my opinion...

densuprun
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:58 PM
and if Maria wins?

Pureracket
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:58 PM
I was just asking myself, "When is somebody gonna finally come up with a Justine vs Serena thread?"

cellophane
Aug 21st, 2007, 06:59 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

hablo
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:00 PM
All Serena has to do is win one slam per year, as :bigwave: has been doing the last couple of seasons and she will be ok.

Serena has to manage to stay fit/healthy, however.

Tennisstar86
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:02 PM
and if Maria wins?

I really dont think she will.... i think the title winner will be one of those 3....but *if* she does her status really wont change much... if we're going by greatness for the time shes got a long way to catch up.....

saki
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:03 PM
I think they have very different kinds of careers. Serena had that period of complete dominance in 2002 which I don't think Justine will ever match. But Justine has had the kind of consistency year on year that Serena won't ever be able to match. :shrug:

I'm obviously a big Justine fan but I enjoy Serena too. To be honest, I think you're not a real tennis fan if you don't enjoy the sort of performance that Serena can produce.

Wayn77
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:03 PM
I'm headin' for the bunker

http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/images/blog/posts/nuclear-bomb-explosion.jpg

Slutiana
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:03 PM
please stop:) you scared the hell out of me. I though this thread was about US Open. I was like :eek: another QF Meeting. Please if i died, i would have haunted you forever and ever. Your lucky

:sad:

cellophane
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM
I'm obviously a big Justine fan but I enjoy Serena too. To be honest, I think you're not a real tennis fan if you don't enjoy the sort of performance that Serena can produce.

I really don't think you know anything about being a real tennis fan. :tape:

sfselesfan
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM
I'm headin' for the bunker

http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/images/blog/posts/nuclear-bomb-explosion.jpg

Even better than my shipwreck! Kudos. :lol:

SF

cellophane
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM
I'm headin' for the bunker

http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/images/blog/posts/nuclear-bomb-explosion.jpg

:lol:

Wayn77
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:06 PM
Even better than my shipwreck! Kudos. :lol:

SF

the shipwreck was pretty good too - it inspired me! :lol::lol:

shap_half
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:07 PM
I think they have very different kinds of careers. Serena had that period of complete dominance in 2002 which I don't think Justine will ever match. But Justine has had the kind of consistency year on year that Serena won't ever be able to match. :shrug:

I'm obviously a big Justine fan but I enjoy Serena too. To be honest, I think you're not a real tennis fan if you don't enjoy the sort of performance that Serena can produce.

I agree, and I love the way Serena fights, because it's very intense...outwardly so. Justine is a quiet competitor. Even with her Allezs, you never see the same type of drama Serena can produce on her own, which I really love to see.

That said, I think if Justine were ever to pass Serena's legacy, she would need to win a couple of more slams that's not the FO, but I really like how she's building on her clay court name. I don't really care if at the end of the day Serena is looked at as the greater player, I've enjoyed being Justine's fan, and she is already among the greats, why muddle it by comparing to others?

Expat
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:09 PM
if she has a season like serena slam
no of grand slams somehow wont do justice to comparisons
but yes she seems more likely to overtake serena because she is more focused and healthy
serena had total dominance which i dont think henin will ever have
but given the state of wta today she can dominate pretty well
wta standards have come down quite a lot these days

harloo
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:12 PM
I'm headin' for the bunker

http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/images/blog/posts/nuclear-bomb-explosion.jpg

:lol::help:

jellybelly
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:13 PM
moot thread. Serena is ahead even though the last few years were her worst and Justine's best. Serena will not be surpassed, certainly not by that midget

harloo
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:18 PM
I was just asking myself, "When is somebody gonna finally come up with a Justine vs Serena thread?"

:haha::haha:We finally have a Justine vs. Serena thread. I can't believe it, at least we won't be talking about Brie Whitehead anymore.:sad::lol:

AllezH1
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:20 PM
http://www.pixelmechanic.de/media/netstuff/earth_explode.jpg

:tape: :tape: :tape:

GoDominique
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:22 PM
When will, or will, Justine pass Serena in terms of 'greatness'.
Interesting question. Almost as interesting as "When will, or will, someone pass tennisIlove09 in terms of 'dumbness'."

sfselesfan
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:24 PM
http://www.pixelmechanic.de/media/netstuff/earth_explode.jpg

:tape: :tape: :tape:

Everyone keeps upping the ante... :)

SF

*runs off to find picture of a black hole.*

GoDominique
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:25 PM
Everyone keeps upping the ante... :)

SF

*runs off to find picture of a black hole.*
Good luck with that.

harloo
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:26 PM
http://www.pixelmechanic.de/media/netstuff/earth_explode.jpg

:tape: :tape: :tape:

Take me now Lord!!:haha:

sfselesfan
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:27 PM
Good luck with that.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=black+hole&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

SF

Shepster
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:28 PM
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/images/hell_freeze.jpg

;)

GoDominique
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:31 PM
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=black+hole&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

SF
No.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:31 PM
funny how people change standards if it concerns their fave.

number of slams? or variety of slams?

obviously serena is ahead on both, if justine can win 3 more and theres no Wimbledon in it , I wont be surprise to see people change their mind and preferred variety than total slam.

AllezH1
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:32 PM
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/images/hell_freeze.jpg

;)

Not good enough.

:)

sfselesfan
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:33 PM
No.

You get the picture.

SF

Shepster
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:34 PM
funny how people change standards if it concerns their fave.

number of slams? or variety of slams?

obviously serena is ahead on both, if justine can win 3 more and theres no Wimbledon in it , I wont be surprise to see people change their mind and preferred variety than total slam.
There are many ways you could argue it, for example if the total number of slams were the same you could argue Serena's holding all 4 simultaneoulsy would be "greater". Then even if everything matched up there's still the doubles record that could be brought into the equation.

AllezH1
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:36 PM
http://education.llnl.gov/sos/images/abstract/06_6_Universe.jpg

Exploding universe = exploding thread in T-minus...

Helen Lawson
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:40 PM
If Justine can win Wimbledon and surpass Serena in number of slams in singles, then that does it. Only factor then is how much do you give Serena for winning all 4 consecutively and is Justine discounted for winning Wimbledon "only once." People weigh Wimbledon higher than the French, let's face it. So, in effect, Justine probably needs two Wimbledon titles and at least one more slam than Serena, then it would be inarguable (well, not for this board, but that's another story).

A lot of people place Serena above Monica because she completed the career slam, even if she's still down one and far lacking in the titles and weeks at No. 1 department.

rjd1111
Aug 21st, 2007, 08:20 PM
and if Maria wins?


Life goes on.

Tennisstar86
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:22 PM
funny how people change standards if it concerns their fave.

number of slams? or variety of slams?

obviously serena is ahead on both, if justine can win 3 more and theres no Wimbledon in it , I wont be surprise to see people change their mind and preferred variety than total slam.

I mean fact is as far as greatness goes Justine cant catch Serena.... on any level.. If we're going by slam total or variety... Total slams Serena has 16 slams.... Henin 6...... Yes if we're going on best career doubles is included as is why people lay claim to Hignis being so great......

But if we want to just exclude total slams on variety Justine will need to win 3 more slams... and not just at the french...... but I really believe its too late for anyone else to be considered the best of this time in tennis other than Serena on the simple fact of how dominate she was....... Basically in-order for Justine or Venus to surpass Serena in greatness they need to win all 4 grand slams in a row....

Serenidad.
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:27 PM
Holding all four slams is something that is very rare. Let alone winning all four in the course of a career. Truthfully, had it not been for the FO 2003 incident I honestly believe Serena would have won that. She already rebounded and won wimbledon. I don't know. I think Henin needs to win Wimbledon and then we'll discuss.

Expat
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:30 PM
Holding all four slams is something that is very rare. Let alone winning all four in the course of a career. Truthfully, had it not been for the FO 2003 incident I honestly believe Serena would have won that. She already rebounded and won wimbledon. I don't know. I think Henin needs to win Wimbledon and then we'll discuss.
agree 100% if she hadnt got upset with the so blatant cheating
she would have made mincemeat of henin

Donatello
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:35 PM
My post will feel so useless in a Re:Henin vs. Serena?? thread.
No one would go like..
dude, remember what that guy posted on page 3 of the 3198th Re:Henin vs. Serena thread ?

all_slam_andre
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:40 PM
Serena is one of 5 women to have held all 4 grand slams simultaneously. I personally think that this phenomenal achievement will ensure that she stays ahead of Justine. Justine has might win Wimbledon to complete the career grand slam, but I don't think that she'll ever win 4 in a row.

JustineTime
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:40 PM
This thread's destiny...

http://seacat.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/perfect_storm_big_wave.jpg

SF

:haha: :haha:

Haven't gone further yet, but no doubt you are[were] quite right. :scared:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:42 PM
Holding all four slams is something that is very rare. Let alone winning all four in the course of a career. Truthfully, had it not been for the FO 2003 incident I honestly believe Serena would have won that. She already rebounded and won wimbledon. I don't know. I think Henin needs to win Wimbledon and then we'll discuss.

REALLY? I think that's a poor excuse for losing that match, and Serena has noted that the cheating hand did not cost her the match. This is the same woman who had a racist mob booing her every move and still went on to beat Kim at IW. She should have found a way to get past lying.

Stamp Paid
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:42 PM
All Serena has to do is win one slam per year, as :bigwave: has been doing the last couple of seasons and she will be ok.

Serena has to manage to stay fit/healthy, however.lmao!

winone23
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:49 PM
This thread's destiny...

http://seacat.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/perfect_storm_big_wave.jpg

SF

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

winone23
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:49 PM
I'm really tired of this threads..........

JustineTime
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:50 PM
if she has a season like serena slam


She darn near did. Please recall that from '03-'04 she won 3 of 4 slams. Not quite the almost-calendar slam performance of Serena's, but close. And she was downright DOMINATING the tour right before she got sick. Kinda brings to mind the what-if-Monica-wasn't-stabbed shoulda/coulda/wouldas, but homey don't play dat. It is what it is...and what it was. :shrug:

Besides, I didn't like what the over-training had morphed Justine into. :scared: If it means she'll have less slams over the course of her career, then I'm all for it. As Justine herself would tell you, there are a lot more important things in life than tennis.

And I for one am glad she took that lesson to heart early on. :hatoff: :hug:

Il Primo!
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:53 PM
I still don't get why all this fuss about the two of them.
I mean Serena won 8 GSs, won 4 in a row; Justine didn't achieved that much and counts "only" 6 slams.
So in term of achievements, Serena tops her.

In term of game, Serena tops her too.
Call me crazy, biased or whatever but Justine doesn't dominate the others thanks to her game.
It's more mental than anything.
I mean, when you look at her H2H with Jankovic(7-0) and Kuznetsova(14-2) the match are damn close!
And she wins a lot of match against top players this way. Serena, can bitchslap them much more easily.

And in term of charisma and all, no contest, Serena's still superior.

A shame their matches against each other always are shitty. Their games don't match up well, to me :shrug:

supergrunt
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:55 PM
I still don't get why all this fuss about the two of them.
I mean Serena won 8 GSs, won 4 in a row; Justine didn't achieved that much and counts "only" 6 slams.
So in term of achievements, Serena tops her.

In term of game, Serena tops her too.
Call me crazy, biased or whatever but Justine doesn't dominate the others thanks to her game.
It's more mental than anything.
I mean, when you look at her H2H with Jankovic(7-0) and Kuznetsova(14-2) the match are damn close!
And she wins a lot of match against top players this way. Serena, can bitchslap them much more easily.

And in term of charisma and all, no contest, Serena's still superior.

A shame their matches against each other always are shitty. Their games don't match up well, to me :shrug:

I agree

DA FOREHAND
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:57 PM
I still don't get why all this fuss about the two of them.
I mean Serena won 8 GSs, won 4 in a row; Justine didn't achieved that much and counts "only" 6 slams.
So in term of achievements, Serena tops her.

In term of game, Serena tops her too.
Call me crazy, biased or whatever but Justine doesn't dominate the others thanks to her game.
It's more mental than anything.
I mean, when you look at her H2H with Jankovic(7-0) and Kuznetsova(14-2) the match are damn close!
And she wins a lot of match against top players this way. Serena, can bitchslap them much more easily.

And in term of charisma and all, no contest, Serena's still superior.

A shame their matches against each other always are shitty. Their games don't match up well, to me :shrug:

i would agree but mental toughness is a huge part of the game. If it wasn't JJ might have actually believed she could be Justine in Canada.

I like the way Venus' game matches up to justine's

Matt01
Aug 21st, 2007, 10:21 PM
In term of game, Serena tops her too.

Now this where I have to disagree :p
In terms of game, Justine tops anyone IMO. When she's "on", it so beautiful to watch :drool:

supergrunt
Aug 21st, 2007, 10:24 PM
Now this where I have to disagree :p
In terms of game, Justine tops anyone IMO. When she's "on", it so beautiful to watch :drool:

no

Craigy
Aug 21st, 2007, 10:28 PM
:umbrella:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 21st, 2007, 11:38 PM
Now this where I have to disagree :p
In terms of game, Justine tops anyone IMO. When she's "on", it so beautiful to watch :drool:

you're joking right? YOu are def. in the minority of people who think an in form Justine would beat an in form Serena:rolleyes:

Expat
Aug 21st, 2007, 11:43 PM
Now this where I have to disagree :p
In terms of game, Justine tops anyone IMO. When she's "on", it so beautiful to watch :drool:
joke of the decade

Junex
Aug 22nd, 2007, 12:44 AM
you're joking right? YOu are def. in the minority of people who think an in form Justine would beat an in form Serena:rolleyes:

She did, Charleston 03 Final!
and don't give me the excuse that it is on red Clay....:rolleyes:

mykarma
Aug 22nd, 2007, 01:14 AM
I'm headin' for the bunker

http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/images/blog/posts/nuclear-bomb-explosion.jpg
:worship::worship::worship:

Petersmiler
Aug 22nd, 2007, 07:47 AM
you're joking right? YOu are def. in the minority of people who think an in form Justine would beat an in form Serena:rolleyes:

I thought he said her game was beautiful? Which very few can deny.

And please don't start that ridiculous 'Peak so and so vs Peak so and so crap. You know it can't be proved either way so why even bother, it really just shows a lack of reasoning skills.

majuu
Aug 22nd, 2007, 08:56 AM
ahhh not another one of these threads. It's all the same. The usual Williams fans needing to once again let everyone know how much better Serena is than Justine.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 22nd, 2007, 10:36 AM
I thought he said her game was beautiful? Which very few can deny.

And please don't start that ridiculous 'Peak so and so vs Peak so and so crap. You know it can't be proved either way so why even bother, it really just shows a lack of reasoning skills.

nope i didn't start it the poster i quoted did. Justine has a ways to go before saying she's more accomplished than Serena.

Petersmiler
Aug 22nd, 2007, 10:55 AM
nope i didn't start it the poster i quoted did. Justine has a ways to go before saying she's more accomplished than Serena.

Actually, having reread his post, maybe you're right. I interpreted it as him saying it was beautiful to watch. However I can see why others would interpret it as him saying she is better.

darice
Aug 22nd, 2007, 10:58 AM
When will, or will, Justine pass Serena in terms of 'greatness'. Serena currently has 8 majors; Justine 6. The way it has been going lately, Justine will pass Serena. (Since Justine won her first Slam; Serena has won 3, Justine 6 ... ). Justine has been able to stay healthy easier than Serena, which means she's able to play more, which means she will win more titles. Justine's also been year end #1 more times than Serena, and has an Olympic singles medal, which Serena does not have.

So what will it take? 2 more Slams? Just a Wimbledon title? 3 more Slams?

they're both my fav's (yes it's possible :p ) and for me juju would pass rena if juju wins 4 slams in a row like rena did. (it doesn't really matter to me who ends up with the most gs titles - they're both awesome players)

frontier
Aug 22nd, 2007, 10:59 AM
I think their rivalry can be best measured when Serena is healthy and playing regularly on tour.It would fun to see the who is best if they play each other on all four different surfaces.I believe if Serena is to commit herself to tennis she is better than Justine,she can win all four slams if she is interested.

Ntour
Aug 22nd, 2007, 11:12 AM
I think their rivalry can be best measured when Serena is healthy and playing regularly on tour.It would fun to see the who is best if they play each other on all four different surfaces.I believe if Serena is to commit herself to tennis she is better than Justine,she can win all four slams if she is interested.

yeah and she hasn't because she just loves to lose in QF's :rolleyes:

well if justine wants to she could win all the slams too all she has to do is not play the week before a slam, she obviously doesn't really care about slam titles though.

i think if justine finishes with more slams than serena she'll be greater (as long as she wins wimbledon)

i mean i'm sure jsutine having more titles, more weeks at number 1, and her incredible consistency more than make up for serena winning 4 in a row.
i mean that proves that serena was good for a period of twelve months but with justine it proves that she has been good for 4 or so years and i would say that the wta is stronger now than 2002, i mean you really don't know who is going to win these days

Matt01
Aug 22nd, 2007, 11:22 AM
Actually, having reread his post, maybe you're right. I interpreted it as him saying it was beautiful to watch. However I can see why others would interpret it as him saying she is better.

To clarify: What I was trying to say is that I find Justine's more beautiful to watch in general. E.g. I find her one-handed backhand more esthetically pleasing than Serena's two-handed backhand. Justine also has more variety in her game, she can play with topsin but also with slice, and more often goes to the net and plays volleys. For me, that makes her game more complete than Serena.

Serena has won more Slams than Justine, Serena is more accomplished. And I'm also not interested in "peak player x vs. peak player y" threads, it makes no sense.

BuTtErFrEnA
Aug 22nd, 2007, 11:37 AM
To clarify: What I was trying to say is that I find Justine's more beautiful to watch in general. E.g. I find her one-handed backhand more esthetically pleasing than Serena's two-handed backhand. Justine also has more variety in her game, she can play with topsin but also with slice, and more often goes to the net and plays volleys. For me, that makes her game more complete than Serena.

Serena has won more Slams than Justine, Serena is more accomplished. And I'm also not interested in "peak player x vs. peak player y" threads, it makes no sense.

pleasing to the eye doesn't equate great game to me :shrug: (that's just me)

and just to make my point for the only time....consistency does not, in my book, equal dominant...otherwise you could say JH got to 4 slam finals in a row = Serena winning4 slam finals in a row and i don't think you can....the same could be said for Lindsay (love you)....had a lot of YE #1 and loads more titles than Serena but Serena beats her hands down even though you could say Lindsay was far more consistent than Serena....and just so you know i would also include Venus because she would be in the same boat as JH getting to 4 consecutive slam finals but not winning...where some people may differ is that they may say there was only one other person above her and JH got beaten by 2 diff people :shrug: (not saying it's mine)

Matt01
Aug 22nd, 2007, 11:42 AM
pleasing to the eye doesn't equate great game to me :shrug: (that's just me)


In my post I also said something about variety, slices, topspin and volleying. :angel:

Slutiana
Aug 22nd, 2007, 12:00 PM
:hearts:

beecharmer
Aug 22nd, 2007, 02:30 PM
REALLY? I think that's a poor excuse for losing that match, and Serena has noted that the cheating hand did not cost her the match. This is the same woman who had a racist mob booing her every move and still went on to beat Kim at IW. She should have found a way to get past lying.

Really? As Chris Evert said, if a point is worth falling over for, youre not in control of it. The fact is serena was up 4-2, 30 love, one serve does not make a loss.