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View Full Version : Jankovic is a poor woman's Kim Clijsters


Morrissey
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Jelena Jankovic is like a poor woman's Kim Clijsters she is very fast she can run down a lot of balls. Except Clisjters had a better serve and she had a weapon a huge forehand and a huge backhand. Clijsters was also a lot more aggressive. Jankovic is not aggressive and her game is very unremarkable and boring to watch. Against Henin today I think the difference was that Justine had weapons she really went for her serve, forehand, and backhand and wasn't afraid. Jankovic is all about being patient, working the ball, using weapons, and waiting for errors. And I don't see anything special about Jankovic's game. Jankovic can indeed win a slam I am not suggesting the cannot because she can. The thing with Jankovic is that she has no weapons I mean her serve is crap. I really thought Justine did a good job attacking it today I think she could of stepped it up even more. Jankovic can run all day like a chicken but I can see why she is where she is.

Justine let Jankovic back into the match with errors but she was going for her shots. Jankovic is a solid player but she can indeed improve if she wants to.

Thanx4nothin
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:48 PM
Well, yes really, she is.

Bruno71
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:51 PM
Look at how many people consider one or more of her matches among the best of the year in that thread. If you're not entertained by her game at least occasionally, you're in the minority.

Morrissey
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:53 PM
I mean that puff serve Jankovic has not in a thing of beauty. And even the commentators said Jankovic serve is pretty weak and predictable. Jankovic is all about waiting for mistakes. I prefer Ivanovic game I definitely think Ivanovic has much bigger weapons and is more exciting to watch.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Seriously though, what's wrong with Jelena's mental toughness.

I mean Jankovic is 0-19 combined vs four GS champions: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Myskina:
0-7 vs Henin
0-6 vs Clijsters
0-3 vs Davenport
0-3 vs Myskina,
they are the only Slam champions she has played but never defeated.

But look at the scorelines:
75 46 36
64 46 06
76 26 46
57 62 46
63 46 46
67 57 (vs Henin)
57 36
75 26 26
46 63 36
64 67 46 (vs Clijsters)
57 36
46 63 46 (vs Davenport)
64 36 36
06 75 8-10
46 67 (vs Myskina)

So 11 of 19 matches were three-setters and another 4 were close two-setters. How come Jelena has never managed to win at least one match? It's just not normal.
I'd understand if she was losing easily but she fought every match, she made them earn those wins but losing eventually every time... how is it possible?

canoe.
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:57 PM
Jelena Jankovic is like a poor woman's Kim ClijstersIt's the other way around.
Except Clisjters had a better serve and she had a weapon a huge forehand and a huge backhand. KC had a better serve, but KC's forehand was a mess, and I think JJ's backhand is as good or better.
Clijsters was also a lot more aggressive. KC wouldn't go to the net if her life depended on it--JJ goes to the net more.
Justine let Jankovic back into the match with errors You and I must have been watching a different match.

Bruno71
Aug 19th, 2007, 09:57 PM
Seriously though, what's wrong with Jelena's mental toughness.

I mean Jankovic is 0-19 combined vs four GS champions: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Myskina:
0-7 vs Henin
0-6 vs Clijsters
0-3 vs Davenport
0-3 vs Myskina,
they are the only Slam champions she has played but never defeated.

But look at the scorelines:
75 46 36
64 46 06
76 26 46
57 62 46
63 46 46
67 57 (vs Henin)
57 36
75 26 26
46 63 36
64 67 46 (vs Clijsters)
57 36
46 63 46 (vs Davenport)
64 36 36
06 75 8-10
46 67 (vs Myskina)

So 11 of 19 matches were three-setters and another 4 were close two-setters. How come Jelena has never managed to win at least one match? It's just not normal.
I'd understand if she was losing easily but she fought every match, she made them earn those wins but losing eventually every time... how is it possible?

How many times has she beaten slam champions Venus, Serena, Kuznetsova? You're only showing part of the picture here. And a lot of those matches occurred when Jelena was a much more inferior player to what she is now...obviously not the ones against Justine though.

AcesHigh
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Yes.. she is. I think that's the first thing you've said that I agree with.

The question I have is... is it just mental toughness?? or is she just the inferior player here.

Dawn Marie
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:03 PM
I think Jelena has more game than Kim. Or maybe it's because I find Kim to be one of the most boring players to watch. Jelena doesn't bore me on the court.

frontier
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:04 PM
She lacks that extra something that great champions have,instinct.She waits for errors and her serve is pretty weak.Overally it was an entertaining match.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:07 PM
How many times has she beaten slam champions Venus, Serena, Kuznetsova? You're only showing part of the picture here. And a lot of those matches occurred when Jelena was a much more inferior player to what she is now...obviously not the ones against Justine though.

Ok, Jelena is 2-27 combined vs Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Mauresmo, Sharapova, Myskina. But she is 7-6 combined vs Venus, Serena and Kuznetsova.
My question remains unanswered.

woosey
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:08 PM
when it really counted, justine not only hung in the match, she raised her game to and made some great shots. i think it's hard for jj to raise her level against top opponents.

and, i don't think she'll win a slam if she can't get through henin, venus and/or serena on her way there.

AcesHigh
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:08 PM
How many times has she beaten slam champions Venus, Serena, Kuznetsova? You're only showing part of the picture here. And a lot of those matches occurred when Jelena was a much more inferior player to what she is now...obviously not the ones against Justine though.

Jelena has no impressive wins over Serena, and only one against Venus at Charleston. Can't speak for Kuznetsova because I havne't seen their matches, but I wouldn't call Kuzzy a great champion by any means.

Bruno71
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Jelena has no impressive wins over Serena, and only one against Venus at Charleston. Can't speak for Kuznetsova because I havne't seen their matches, but I wouldn't call Kuzzy a great champion by any means.

That's besides the point when you're using stats, because we could look at some of these losses Jelena took from those 4 champions and say they weren't impressive wins for those players either.

Beating 2 former grand slam champions, 3 times, IN grand slams, is pretty impressive to me.

laurie
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:17 PM
Morrissey, I think it's a bit unfair to compare Clijsters to Jelena Jankovic. They play two different styles (more mentality than style of play).

Jelena Jankovic is by definition - a counterpuncher. She doesn't make the plays often or look to dictate the points on a consistent basis, she's more reactive than pro active. Clijsters went for her shots all the time, whether they went in or out - she was pro active, she won or lost matches by going for it, she could look herself in the mirror afterwards and say I tried my best, even if it didn't work.

Today, you saw clearly Jelena had many opportunities to attack short mid court balls and put the pressure on Justine by attacking the net, instead she retreated on many of these exchanges and guess what? Henin attacked Jelena at the net instead. Sureley jelena must acknowledge this and do something about it. And having lost, how satisfied is she with herself knowing she backed off instead of going for it?

As I mentioned in another thread, counterpunchers do not usually win grand slam titles or even one grand slam title. In the last 20 years it's been mainly aggressive players who win slam titles. Graf, Seles, Pierce, Henin, Venus, Serena, etc etc. And players like Kuznetsova, Clijsters, Novotna who have won one slam are players who go for their shots and not back off. For those who say Sanchez Vicario - she had very good volleys and wasn't afraid to go to net to finish points, which is why she won a few slams.

I know Jelena wants to win a grand slam title. She must address the issue that when the situation gets tight, she must go for her shots and attack short balls and not back off, because in slam semifinals she will always meet players like Venus, Serena and Justine and they are not going to back off short balls and not be agressive when it's all on the line - that's why they are champions.

Bruno71
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:20 PM
Morrissey, I think it's a bit unfair to compare Clijsters to Jelena Jankovic. They play two different styles (more mentality than style of play).

Jelena Jankovic is by definition - a counterpuncher. She doesn't make the plays often or look to dictate the points on a consistent basis, she's more reactive than pro active. Clijsters went for her shots all the time, whether they went in or out - she was pro active, she won or lost matches by going for it, she could look herself in the mirror afterwards and say I tried my best, even if it didn't work.

Today, you saw clearly Jelena had many opportunities to attack short mid court balls and put the pressure on Justine by attacking the net, instead she retreated on many of these exchanges and guess what? Henin attacked Jelena at the net instead. Sureley jelena must acknowledge this and do something about it. And having lost, how satisfied is she with herself knowing she backed off instead of going for it?

As I mentioned in another thread, counterpunchers do not usually win grand slam titles or even one grand slam title. In the last 20 years it's been mainly aggressive players who win slam titles. Graf, Seles, Pierce, Henin, Venus, Serena, etc etc. And players like Kuznetsova, Clijsters, Novotna who have won one slam are players who go for their shots and not back off. For those who say Sanchez Vicario - she had very good volleys and wasn't afraid to go to net to finish points, which is why she won a few slams.

I know Jelena wants to win a grand slam title. She must address the issue that when the situation gets tight, she must go for her shots and attack short balls and not back off, because in slam semifinals she will always meet players like Venus, Serena and Justine and they are not going to back off short balls and not be agressive when it's all on the line - that's why they are champions.

Very good post. You have to be aggressive to win slams, and Jelena doesn't do that consistently (she can be aggressive though at times). That's something she'll have to work on, along with her serve. I don't really see her as a Clijsters type either, but the comparisons aren't completely out of whack.

woosey
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:22 PM
Morrissey, I think it's a bit unfair to compare Clijsters to Jelena Jankovic. They play two different styles (more mentality than style of play).

Jelena Jankovic is by definition - a counterpuncher. She doesn't make the plays often or look to dictate the points on a consistent basis, she's more reactive than pro active. Clijsters went for her shots all the time, whether they went in or out - she was pro active, she won or lost matches by going for it, she could look herself in the mirror afterwards and say I tried my best, even if it didn't work.

Today, you saw clearly Jelena had many opportunities to attack short mid court balls and put the pressure on Justine by attacking the net, instead she retreated on many of these exchanges and guess what? Henin attacked Jelena at the net instead. Sureley jelena must acknowledge this and do something about it. And having lost, how satisfied is she with herself knowing she backed off instead of going for it?

As I mentioned in another thread, counterpunchers do not usually win grand slam titles or even one grand slam title. In the last 20 years it's been mainly aggressive players who win slam titles. Graf, Seles, Pierce, Henin, Venus, Serena, etc etc. And players like Kuznetsova, Clijsters, Novotna who have won one slam are players who go for their shots and not back off. For those who say Sanchez Vicario - she had very good volleys and wasn't afraid to go to net to finish points, which is why she won a few slams.

I know Jelena wants to win a grand slam title. She must address the issue that when the situation gets tight, she must go for her shots and attack short balls and not back off, because in slam semifinals she will always meet players like Venus, Serena and Justine and they are not going to back off short balls and not be agressive when it's all on the line - that's why they are champions.


i agree.

athake
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:25 PM
Give her a break, she has a deserved respect game, maybe she's learning slower than expected, but sure she's improving.

one day she'll beat Justine for sure and i hope its not at a GS final..

PS: She's far better player than Serbian supporters at stadiums deserved..

woosey
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:26 PM
jj didn't also probably didn't attack the net when she could have because of henin's groundstrokes. but henin made some pretty out there errors today on both sides. jj may have been able forced more out of henin had she charged he net - put more pressure on henin.

laurie
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:31 PM
It's quite interesting Bruno that counterpunchers usually have weak serves.

When I think of Elena Dementieva, her career has almost been ruined by the poverty of her serve and second serve in particular. If she had a decent serve, how good could she have been? When she knows her serve could break down (that damned ball toss to the right!) she's always on the defensive. How can you go for your shots when you think you will have to be defensive because your serve might break down? I remember Elena in coming through in 2000 and her serve was fine, tossing the ball above her head, her game looked good.

Jelena was talking about her poor serve yesterday. It's not far off Dementieva's at this moment. She must work on it before it's too late.

laurie
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:33 PM
Give her a break, she has a deserved respect game, maybe she's learning slower than expected, but sure she's improving.

one day she'll beat Justine for sure and i hope its not at a GS final..

PS: She's far better player than Serbian supporters at stadiums deserved..

We are certainly not having a go at Jelena, I think we all think her game has rich potential. But of course it's down to the players and how much they really want to improve and go all the way. I hope Jelena is one of those girls.

Bruno71
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:34 PM
It's quite interesting Bruno that counterpunchers usually have weak serves.

When I think of Elena Dementieva, her career has almost been ruined by the poverty of her serve and second serve in particular. If she had a decent serve, how good could she have been? When she knows her serve could break down (that damned ball toss to the right!) she's always on the defensive. How can you go for your shots when you think you will have to be defensive because your serve might break down? I remember Elena in coming through in 2000 and her serve was fine, tossing the ball above her head, her game looked good.

Jelena was talking about her poor serve yesterday. It's not far off Dementieva's at this moment. She must work on it before it's too late.

Actually Lena has a very good serve when she's not having the yips (which is way too often). JJ's best serves are nowhere near as strong. But she benefits from consistenly high 1st serve %'s and good placement, so that makes up for it a bit.

Wayn77
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:34 PM
Yes that is a great post by Laurie - right on the money.

I find Jelena's clever counter-punching game extremely attractive to watch - loads of speed, accuracy and great defense. Tati "red knickers" Golovin described Jankovic as an "awesome" tennis player - praise indeed from a fellow pro.

Jankovic is a late developer searching for that dimension that is going to make her a Slam contender. She's experimented a little with Schnyder/Hingis-like like touch, feel and variety - it's not her game and it's been dropped. She realises she has to up the stakes in her mid-court/net game as Laurie stresses. It's being introduced slowly - I've seen more of it this week, it can't be done all in one go. It's a work in progress.

Vlover
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:36 PM
She reminds me more of Hingis. Shit serve, hopes the opponent is off so I can capitalize on their errors.:devil: Sorry, but I can't appreciate players who don't take the initiative. She might get lucky like Kim and Myskina and win a major but with her game presently I can't see her consistently taking out three good players consecutively for a major.

LindsayRulz
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:37 PM
I think she could have a career as good as Clijsters' if she had a better serve and if she was more agressive when she has to be.

munaz
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:40 PM
I really like watching her play cos she entertaining but her serve today was a liability and her forehand isn't that great either. Love the dtl backhands thou. I just don't get the problem with her serve, i mean the ball toss seems okay and she can hit it variety but its powder puff. worse than hingis imo. At some point today she would hit these great angled serve into the corners which either won the point outright for her or set up the next shot. I do think that she was a little bit better mentally thou. In 3 years ivanovic will rocket past her imo

Matt01
Aug 19th, 2007, 10:59 PM
The thing with Jankovic is that she has no weapons I mean her serve is crap.

Her backhand down the line is big weapon. Her consistancy is a weapon. Her speed and quickness and flexibility on the court are a weapon. Her stamina is a weapon. Don't be ridiculous :rolleyes:

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:06 PM
She has the game, she just doesnt have the mentality... yet.

While she might not be as aggressive as Clijsters and has a weaker serve, I do feel she is slightly better defensively than Clijsters.

Bruno71
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:09 PM
While she might not be as aggressive as Clijsters and has a weaker serve, I do feel she is slightly better defensively than Clijsters.

Speaking of comparing the 2 defensively, I think JJ's defense has gotten much stronger since they played each other in Sydney. In that match, I was frustrated with how JJ wouldn't put a little more on defensive shots...just getting them back in play, often needlessly. She's improved a lot this year on D.

serenaforever
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:22 PM
It's the other way around.
KC had a better serve, but KC's forehand was a mess, and I think JJ's backhand is as good or better.
KC wouldn't go to the net if her life depended on it--JJ goes to the net more.
You and I must have been watching a different match.

I agree with everything said here :p

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:22 PM
Seriously though, what's wrong with Jelena's mental toughness.

I mean Jankovic is 0-19 combined vs four GS champions: Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Myskina:
0-7 vs Henin
0-6 vs Clijsters
0-3 vs Davenport
0-3 vs Myskina,
they are the only Slam champions she has played but never defeated.

But look at the scorelines:
75 46 36
64 46 06
76 26 46
57 62 46
63 46 46
67 57 (vs Henin)
57 36
75 26 26
46 63 36
64 67 46 (vs Clijsters)
57 36
46 63 46 (vs Davenport)
64 36 36
06 75 8-10
46 67 (vs Myskina)

So 11 of 19 matches were three-setters and another 4 were close two-setters. How come Jelena has never managed to win at least one match? It's just not normal.
I'd understand if she was losing easily but she fought every match, she made them earn those wins but losing eventually every time... how is it possible?

Clijsters is retired.
Myskina is basically retired.
Davenport is coming from out of retirement.

Like Djokovic what matters most for Jelena is her record against the two best players on tour.
Those players are Serena and Venus not Justine and whoever else Jelena has issues beating.

That should be the lithmus test really for players today, your record against Venus and Serena.
They won 2 of the slams this year, they deserve that recognition.
She has a winning record against them.

That's all I need to see to know Jelena has it in her to win a slam.

BTW, what's Justine's record against the Williams Sisters?

Henin is bound to play Venus at a slam again, and Venus is going to steamroll her, I just wanted to mention that.

thrust
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:34 PM
Jelena is not a boring player. Some of the most exciting matches the last couple of years have been with her providing much of the excitement. Perhaps she needs a new coach to point out some of her shortcomings. Perhaps her family are too involved in her coaching? Whatever, I think Kim peaked at an earlier age and Jelena, could perhaps, peak soon and win a Slam or two. I hope she does.

Matt01
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:37 PM
Clijsters is retired.
Myskina is basically retired.
Davenport is coming from out of retirement.

Like Djokovic what matters most for Jelena is her record against the two best players on tour.
Those players are Serena and Venus not Justine and whoever else Jelena has issues beating.

That should be the lithmus test really for players today, your record against Venus and Serena.
They won 2 of the slams this year, they deserve that recognition.
She has a winning record against them.

That's all I need to see to know Jelena has it in her to win a slam.

BTW, what's Justine's record against the Williams Sisters?

Henin is bound to play Venus at a slam again, and Venus is going to steamroll her, I just wanted to mention that.

You seriously don't know Justine's record against the Williams sisters? :eek: :rolleyes:

As for the rest of your post: :weirdo:

Vamos.
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:42 PM
It's the other way around.
KC had a better serve, but KC's forehand was a mess, and I think JJ's backhand is as good or better.
KC wouldn't go to the net if her life depended on it--JJ goes to the net more.
You and I must have been watching a different match.


Kim's forehand is "a mess"? Lmao. It was a HUGE weapon. Especially later on in her career. I loved the way she hit it too :hearts:...I can't believe you even said that.

Regarding the original topic; yes I think she is in a way. She lacks the weapons that Clijsters had but I think she is smarter in many ways. I think she thinks how to beat opponents very well and that is why she is so consistent. I love the way she goes back behind players all of the time, especially the slow movers:drool:

I think she struggles with the TOP players because they have soooooooo many more weapons than her. That is what it comes down to. Also the serve. Her serve really is an absolute joke, she needs to get it sorted. It is just to start off the point, that is it. She loses ground on someone like Juju immediately.

I just think that she has to develop her serve and she could be a huge force at majors. Until then she will always be, sometimes as Clijsters was, a Semi-Final player and just behind the sport's elite.

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:43 PM
You seriously don't know Justine's record against the Williams sisters? :eek: :rolleyes:

As for the rest of your post: :weirdo:

I know Henin's record against Serena and Venus.
The point was it's a losing record and you've entirely missed that point.

Weird? For giving Serena and Venus the props they deserve? :lol:
Whatever.

Cp6uja
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Jankovic is not aggressive and her game is very unremarkable and boring to watch.If Jankovic game for you is boring, you obviously dont like womans tennis! She played more classic and epic matches in last 15 months than any other WTA player. She know all in tennis (except serve) and played maybe with more variety than any other current payer. Also, her matches is never boring because she give they opponents more chances to represent they best than any other TOP10 player (good side of her deffensive game plan).


Here is some of her spectacular matches in last 15 months:

Toronto 2007: Justine Henin def. Jelena Jankovic 7-6 7-5
Toronto 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Tatiana Golovin 5-7 6-3 6-2
Los Angeles 2007: Ana Ivanovic def. Jelena Jankovic 4-6 6-3 7-5
Fed Cup 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Dominika Cibulkova 7-5 1-6 9-7
Wimbledon 2007: Marion Bartoli def. Jelena Jankovic 3-6 7-5 6-3
Wimbledon 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Lucie Safarova 5-7 7-6(4) 6-2
s'Hertogenbosch 2007: Anna Chakvetadze def. Jelena Jankovic 7-6(2) 3-6 6-3
Birmingham 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Maria Sharapova 4-6 6-3 7-5
French Open 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Nicole Vaidisova 6-3 7-5
French Open 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Venus Williams 6-4 4-6 6-1
Berlin 2007: Justine Henin def. Jelena Jankovic 3-6 6-4 6-4
Warsaw 2007: Justine Henin def. Jelena Jankovic 7-5 2-6 6-4
Charleston 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Venus Williams 3-6 6-3 7-6(5)
Doha 2007: Justine Henin def. Jelena Jankovic 6-7(5) 6-2 6-4
Tokyo 2007: Ana Ivanovic def. Jelena Jankovic 3-6 6-4 6-2
Sydney 2007: Kim Clijsters def. Jelena Jankovic 4-6 7-6(1) 6-4
Sydney 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Nicole Vaidisova 6-4 4-6 6-4
Sydney 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Martina Hingis 6-4 4-6 6-3
Auckland 2007: Jelena Jankovic def. Vera Zvonareva 7-6(9) 5-7 6-3
Linz 2006: Nicole Vaidisova def. Jelena Jankovic 5-7 7-6(5) 6-4
Zurich 2006: Svetlana Kuznetsova def. Jelena Jankovic 7-6(6) 7-5
Stuttgart 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Mary Pierce 7-6(7) 6-3
Beijing 2006: Amelie Mauresmo def. Jelena Jankovic 6-1 3-6 7-6(3)
Beijing 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Nadia Petrova 6-4 4-6 6-2
U.S. Open 2006: Justine Henin def. Jelena Jankovic 4-6 6-4 6-0
U.S. Open 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Svetlana Kuznetsova 6-7(5) 6-3 6-2
U.S. Open 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Nicole Vaidisova 5-7 6-3 6-2
Los Angeles 2006: Elena Dementieva def. Jelena Jankovic 6-3 4-6 6-4
Los Angeles 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Serena Williams 6-4 6-3
Los Angeles 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Ana Ivanovic 6-4 7-6(6)
San Diego 2006: Kim Clijsters def. Jelena Jankovic 6-4 3-6 6-3
Stanford 2006: Kim Clijsters def. Jelena Jankovic 5-7 6-2 6-2
Wimbledon 2006: Anastasia Myskina def. Jelena Jankovic 6-4 7-6(5)
Wimbledon 2006: Jelena Jankovic def. Venus Williams 7-6(8) 4-6 6-4

canoe.
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:52 PM
Lmao. It was a HUGE weapon. Especially later on in her career. I loved the way she hit it too ...I can't believe you even said that.Na. All I remember about her forehand was error after error. I used to cringe when she would wind up to hit it.

Vamos.
Aug 19th, 2007, 11:56 PM
Na. All I remember about her forehand was error after error. I used to cringe when she would wind up to hit it.

:rolleyes: ...but she also hit winner after winner, so you are being a bit too selective here.

I kind of cringe when Justine hits her backhand (I genuinely fear for her back, I am sure it will snap one day). But I still see some of the amazing shots she hits with that thing, regardless of the errors and near back-breaking, because I don't watch it with COMPLETE bias.:o

Matt01
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:00 AM
I know Henin's record against Serena and Venus.
The point was it's a losing record and you've entirely missed that point.

Weird? For giving Serena and Venus the props they deserve? :lol:
Whatever.

No, that would be not weird, but is weird to claim that Venus and Serena are the best 2 players on the tour. And it is also weird to claim that Venus will steamroll Justine at their next meeting. :rolleyes:

And as for Justine's record against the Williams sisters, I still haven't gotten your point. Why exactly is that a problem for Justine? And FYI, I also know her record and I know that Justine has won 4 of her last 6 matches against the Williams sisters.

About Jankovic: Yes, one of her current problems is that she hasn't beaten Justine. That's what matters for at the moment, because without that problem she maybe already would have won two more Tier I titles and would have reached 2 GS finals (and maybe even would have won these Slams).

cellophane
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:02 AM
:rolleyes: ...but she also hit winner after winner, so you are being a bit too selective here.

I kind of cringe when Justine hits her backhand (I genuinely fear for her back, I am sure it will snap one day). But I still see some of the amazing shots she hits with that thing, regardless of the errors and near back-breaking, because I don't watch it with COMPLETE bias.:o

I'll agree with you there. Justine's backhand is not at all elegant or beautiful to me as many say... but it's a great weapon.

Yonexforever
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:04 AM
Well done!
I was thinking the same EXACT thing as i watched!

cellophane
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:04 AM
That should be the lithmus test really for players today, your record against Venus and Serena.
They won 2 of the slams this year, they deserve that recognition.
She has a winning record against them.

Winning 1 slam doesn't really make you the best player of the year, alone today, although Serena is up there.

saki
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:06 AM
Jankovic is a much much more aggressive player than Clijsters ever was. Certainly against top players. I tend to think that it's the other way round: Clijsters was a poor woman's Jankovic.

cellophane
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:08 AM
Jankovic is a much much more aggressive player than Clijsters ever was. Certainly against top players. I tend to think that it's the other way round: Clijsters was a poor woman's Jankovic.

:spit: :help:

Donny
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:09 AM
:spit: :help:

What cellophane said.

Stamp Paid
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:11 AM
I always thought she was a less clever version of Myskina.

Apoleb
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:14 AM
Another attention-whoring thread by Morrissey, and he's successful again in getting all the attention for another of his bs threads.

saki
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:15 AM
Look at what Jankovic will do with a short ball and what Clijsters would do with a short ball. Then tell me that Jankovic is a more defensive player. Jankovic will step up and hit a winner. Clijsters used to look indecisive and then stay back and play backboard.

Apoleb
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:16 AM
Look at what Jankovic will do with a short ball and what Clijsters would do with a short ball. Then tell me that Jankovic is a more defensive player. Jankovic will step up and hit a winner. Clijsters used to look indecisive and then stay back and play backboard.

You must be kidding.

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Bottom line. Jelena has the game to be #1, but mentally she is not there yet. You have to give her props though... last year, she almost quit, but she mentally upgraded herself. She just needs to upgrade herself again mentally, and she'll be able to beat the top players consistently.

saki
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:20 AM
You must be kidding.

No. Has Clijsters ever played a shot anywhere near as aggressive on a regular basis as Jankovic's backhand down the line?

Apoleb
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:22 AM
No. Has Clijsters ever played a shot anywhere near as aggressive on a regular basis as Jankovic's backhand down the line?

You don't measure aggressiveness with one shot. Clijsters used to dominate players from the baseline on hardcourts. Hell, she dominated Justine in 02/ beginning of 03 hardcourts and did the same in Toronto 2005. You'll never see Jelena do anything similar. Kim had a bigger serve, a much bigger and heavier forehand, and her backhand could also deliver powerful and aggressive shots. It's not even subject to discussion unless you never watched one of them.

tennis_pIayer
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:23 AM
uh yes. her forehands were so aggressive many times.

saki
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:28 AM
You don't measure aggressiveness with one shot. Clijsters used to dominate players from the baseline on hardcourts. Hell, she dominated Justine in 02/ beginning of 03 hardcourts and did the same in Toronto 2005. You'll never see Jelena do anything similar. Kim had a bigger serve, a much bigger and heavier forehand, and her backhand could also deliver powerful and aggressive shots. It's not even subject to discussion unless you never watched one of them.

Jelena has dominated Venus Williams from the baseline at Wimbledon. We never saw Clijsters do anything similar.

Clijsters' serve was not much better than Jankovic's. Her forehand was better than Jankovic's but Jankovic's backhand is far superior.

I have watched both of them and I dispute this idea that Kim "I'm allergic to finishing points at the net" Clijsters was more aggressive than Jankovic.

Apoleb
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:30 AM
Jelena has dominated Venus Williams from the baseline at Wimbledon.

:haha: :haha:

I'm not going further in this discussion. We can agree to disagree, though I'm pretty sure your opinion is not going to be shared by a lot of people.

MagicMilan
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:31 AM
Bottom line. Jelena has the game to be #1, but mentally she is not there yet. You have to give her props though... last year, she almost quit, but she mentally upgraded herself. She just needs to upgrade herself again mentally, and she'll be able to beat the top players consistently.
She will never get props for her improvement and achievement, people on this board just love to hate :sad: It was better when she was ranked in the 20s :sad: I'm so fed up with this :sad:

hablo
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:33 AM
Jankovic is a much much more aggressive player than Clijsters ever was. Certainly against top players. I tend to think that it's the other way round: Clijsters was a poor woman's Jankovic.:haha:
You don't even have to like Clijsters to realize that she had a way more aggressive game than Jankovic. :tape:


Anyhow, Jankovic's game reminds me more of Myskina's too.

hablo
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:35 AM
You don't measure aggressiveness with one shot. Clijsters used to dominate players from the baseline on hardcourts. Hell, she dominated Justine in 02/ beginning of 03 hardcourts and did the same in Toronto 2005. You'll never see Jelena do anything similar. Kim had a bigger serve, a much bigger and heavier forehand, and her backhand could also deliver powerful and aggressive shots. It's not even subject to discussion unless you never watched one of them.

Exactly.

I still remember the beatdowns Clijsters gave Mauresmo as well. :o

partbrit
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:36 AM
It always puzzles me when people say a player has "no weapons" when that player actually has several. Jankovic has a killer backhand down the line, she has outstanding anticipation, she has speed, she has instinct, and she has huge counter-punching skills. Weapons, already...

Apoleb
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:39 AM
It always puzzles me when people say a player has "no weapons" when that player actually has several. Jankovic has a killer backhand down the line, she has outstanding anticipation, she has speed, she has instinct, and she has huge counter-punching skills. Weapons, already...

I agree. Actually, she kind of reminds me of Hingis with her intinct and her shot selection. She makes up the lack of pace on her serve and her forehand with terrific placement and shot selection, and uses a combination of spin, angle, and speed to get her opponents out of balance. She knows how to construct a point, and is using her head all the time.

yohaneuano4
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:39 AM
It's true, I don't think there's one aspect of Janković's game that blows spectators and opponents away, she's just tough and has good tactical awareness. Her ability to control the ball, especially on those floating volleys where she takes a full swing at it, is admirable. She's not overly agressive, but that doesn't mean she's defensive by default, she still comes in often. It's true that Justine was error prone and if JJ had been fully fit she wouldn't have kept breaking and then being broken back today.

Bruno71
Aug 20th, 2007, 12:40 AM
It always puzzles me when people say a player has "no weapons" when that player actually has several. Jankovic has a killer backhand down the line, she has outstanding anticipation, she has speed, she has instinct, and she has huge counter-punching skills. Weapons, already...

Some people feel that the term weapon is only synonymous with strong shotmaking. In that regard, the only real weapon JJ may have is her BDTL, but even that shot has more to do with timing and racket control than power. I agree with your definition of weaponry, but I'd like to see JJ develop the other types of weapons, esp. the serve.

LUIS9
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:07 AM
Yes Jelena is sort of like the poor woman's version of Clijsters and yet Clijsters had better defensive lobs and the biggest difference is that Clijsters had a much better return of serve, she went for it much more and her groundies have better penetration. Kim's serve indeed was pretty underrated especially her second serve, she managed to serve it deep and get away with it since her defense and quickness could make up for a not so stellar second serve. Her first serve was more suspect at times she would just throw in a spinner at 100 miles per hour that deservedly so got a stumping.

LUIS9
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:09 AM
Gosh now that I think about it, it's at times like this that you realize and miss Kim Clijsters; with no Williams active and all these inconsistent youngsters a healthy, fit and hungry Clijsters would be racking up titles left and right, she surely would have won Stanford which she owned pretty much after Venus handed her the right of passage there and she would have won Toronto no doubt. :sad::sad::sad: Oh well.....

woosey
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:17 AM
I think she could have a career as good as Clijsters' if she had a better serve and if she was more agressive when she has to be.

i don't think it would be too too difficult for her to have a career like clijsters since she plays a lot (like kim) and is taking a while to win a slam, in part because of mental letdowns. if she won just one slam, won a few more titles, and hung around a few more years, then retires, she'll be like clijsters.

the difference is that people expected far more from clijsters. i don't think people expect jj to really become a multi-slam winner.

Serenidad.
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:22 AM
Jankovic is the Davydenko of the Women's Tour. LOL! Plays almost every week for ranking points, never peaks @ Grand Slams, never wins the biggest matches when it matters.

Dawn Marie
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Jankovic is a much much more aggressive player than Clijsters ever was. Certainly against top players. I tend to think that it's the other way round: Clijsters was a poor woman's Jankovic.


I agree.:) :worship:

CJ07
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:27 AM
Ok, Jelena is 2-27 combined vs Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Mauresmo, Sharapova, Myskina. But she is 7-6 combined vs Venus, Serena and Kuznetsova.
My question remains unanswered.
Serena, Venus and Kuznetsova can spray errors all over the place. Thats why she's beaten them.

Those other players are much more consistent. Jankovic simply does not have a weapon that she can impose regardless of the other player's performance. Her backhand down the line is nice, but you can't win matches just with that one shot - its not potent enough on a consistent basis.

CJ07
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:28 AM
Kim Clijsters was (is) MUCH better than Jankovic. She does everything better, her record against other players proves that.

Bruno71
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:33 AM
Ok, Jelena is 2-27 combined vs Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Mauresmo, Sharapova, Myskina. But she is 7-6 combined vs Venus, Serena and Kuznetsova.
My question remains unanswered.

Don't forget 2-0 Hingis and 1-1 Pierce.

Every loss to these players has been because they were better players on the days they played Jelena. It's that simple. She beat Maria the last time they played, so she may have some hope of continuing the positive track of that h2h.

MagicMilan
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:37 AM
Don't forget 2-0 Hingis and 1-1 Pierce.

Every loss to these players has been because they were better players on the days they played Jelena. It's that simple. She beat Maria the last time they played, so she may have some hope of continuing the positive track of that h2h.
They seem to forget that a different Jelena is playing these days, opposite to the one year and a half ago :D

CJ07
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Jankovic is the Davydenko of the Women's Tour. LOL! Plays almost every week for ranking points, never peaks @ Grand Slams, never wins the biggest matches when it matters.
Great comparison

Serenidad.
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:55 AM
Comparison because it is true. I think her career will mimic Davydenko's eternally. They even play the same game to a certain extend. Steady and consistent off the ground, runs everything down, rarely come to the net!

canoe.
Aug 20th, 2007, 01:58 AM
rarely come to the net!She comes to net more than most of the other players on tour!

cellophane
Aug 20th, 2007, 02:16 AM
For saki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q2okrKChIQ

0:41
3:02
6:13
6:34

Enjoy hon :tape:


Seriously, this clip makes the match look like a classic. :lol:

franny
Aug 20th, 2007, 02:19 AM
Jankovic reminds me a lot of Anastasia Myskina.

AcesHigh
Aug 20th, 2007, 02:37 AM
It's sad the lack of respect Kim gets in this thread. To say that Jankovic is better?? :haha:

Jankovic has a good game, and her consistency is a weapon(especially against players who have a tendency to spray the ball all over the place at times: SErena, Venus, Kuznetsova) but Kim had a better forehand, serve, return, backhand(arguable) and arguably better court coverage. The only thing that kept Kim from winning at least five slams is that she (1) couldn't show up mentally against Justine on the big stage, (2)Would shrink mentally against big-time players at key moments (2003 against Serena at AO and Venus at Wimby) and (3) seemed to stop caring after she won USO.

Also.. Kim is retired, but she's also only 2 years older than Jelena. It's not like comparing two different stages of careers.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 20th, 2007, 03:14 AM
how did this girl win mixed doubles? Jamie's back must ache from carrying her

Julian
Aug 20th, 2007, 03:18 AM
I love Jelena's game!

Of course I tend to be biased towards "counterpunchers"...blame me I was an ASV fan for YEARS! lol

But what she has that I love is her fight, hustle, backhand down the line (her best shot), and the humorous and respectful vibe that she brings onto the court. You can tell that she loves this game (aside from when shes frustrated of course).

She has amazing defense but I agree with someone who says she lacks that "extra something" which seperates the Great Champions. Even the great champions on the defense can not only get to balls but hit them back in a way that can still hurt their opponents! Jelena's tend to just float at times which is an easy sitter for the other player. She also needs to learn to be comfortable at the net and just have that instinct of WHEN to take advantage and hit the winner when the opportunity arises.

Hopefully she'll do better in these categories because I would love to see her win a major!

cellophane
Aug 20th, 2007, 04:08 AM
It's sad the lack of respect Kim gets in this thread. To say that Jankovic is better?? :haha:

Jankovic has a good game, and her consistency is a weapon(especially against players who have a tendency to spray the ball all over the place at times: SErena, Venus, Kuznetsova) but Kim had a better forehand, serve, return, backhand(arguable) and arguably better court coverage. The only thing that kept Kim from winning at least five slams is that she (1) couldn't show up mentally against Justine on the big stage, (2)Would shrink mentally against big-time players at key moments (2003 against Serena at AO and Venus at Wimby) and (3) seemed to stop caring after she won USO.

Also.. Kim is retired, but she's also only 2 years older than Jelena. It's not like comparing two different stages of careers.

And ain't it a shame. :sad: Kim had a lot more talent than any of the girls coming up.

Hashim.
Aug 20th, 2007, 04:52 AM
:banghead:

Geisha
Aug 20th, 2007, 04:57 AM
I was at the match, almost first row. I can tell you that, although Jelena is patient and likes to wait for errors, she also picks the right times for winners. And, she is most definitely not boring. If anything, she let the second set slip.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM
she needs a better net game, there was no evidence of her having recently won a mixed doubled title.

jonny84
Aug 20th, 2007, 03:42 PM
If Jelena Jankovic has a similar career to Kim Clijsters, then it would be a very good one indeed.

Jelena is an excellent player - five titles (two Tier Is); ranked #3, grand-slam XD winner.

Don't forget this is really the start of her new career, as she has gotten herself out of the major slump!

terjw
Aug 20th, 2007, 04:21 PM
If Jelena Jankovic has a similar career to Kim Clijsters, then it would be a very good one indeed.

Jelena is an excellent player - five titles (two Tier Is); ranked #3, grand-slam XD winner.

Don't forget this is really the start of her new career, as she has gotten herself out of the major slump!

Exactly. Although I think the thread starter intended this to be a "put down" of both Kim and Jelena - Kim was a fantastic player and for Jelena to be getting all this comparison stuff with Kim is a compliment and a testament to how far Jelena has now come these last 18 months.

To both Kim and Jelena :worship: :worship: :worship:

thrust
Aug 20th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Wannabe- Justine is the #1 player in the world today, not Serena and certainly NOT Venus whose only accomplishment besides Wimbledon is a tier III win in Memphis. One tournament does not a season make.

Vamos.
Aug 20th, 2007, 08:23 PM
I'll agree with you there. Justine's backhand is not at all elegant or beautiful to me as many say... but it's a great weapon.

:eek: ...cellophane agrees with me? Amazing.

Jankovic is a much much more aggressive player than Clijsters ever was. Certainly against top players. I tend to think that it's the other way round: Clijsters was a poor woman's Jankovic.

Well this is just pathetic. Did you never watch Kim on hardcourts? No? Oh.

:spit: :help:

Exactly.

Look at what Jankovic will do with a short ball and what Clijsters would do with a short ball. Then tell me that Jankovic is a more defensive player. Jankovic will step up and hit a winner. Clijsters used to look indecisive and then stay back and play backboard.

How could Clijsters have been able to win the USO without being able to put away a short ball? You are moronic.

Jelena has dominated Venus Williams from the baseline at Wimbledon. We never saw Clijsters do anything similar.

Clijsters' serve was not much better than Jankovic's. Her forehand was better than Jankovic's but Jankovic's backhand is far superior.

I have watched both of them and I dispute this idea that Kim "I'm allergic to finishing points at the net" Clijsters was more aggressive than Jankovic.


Clijsters' serve destroys Jelena's. As I said previously; Jelena's is merely to get the point started, she might aswell roll it in and she has said as much HERSELF.

On hardcourts Kim's serve could actually be a real weapon. She was very aggressive at her best on hardcourts. You obviously just happened to miss that.

:yawn:

friendsita
Aug 20th, 2007, 10:54 PM
I like Jelena and hope that she'll improve.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 20th, 2007, 11:12 PM
I think she should cut her shcedule in half and play more dubs at the tournaments she does enter. better skills and more confidence at the net could have changed the complextion of her title match at the Canadian Open.

guyinsf
Aug 21st, 2007, 12:20 AM
She's number 3 in the world at the moment right? That's is not unremarkable and I think her game is quite aggressive, not defensive. Maybe we're not thinking of the same player?

StZox
Aug 21st, 2007, 01:31 AM
If she improves her serve, and thus holding it much more often throughout the match, she will be No1 for sure.
It seems that she wins games when her opponent serves more easily than her own serve.

peanuts
Aug 21st, 2007, 03:59 AM
While I think that Jelena could be more aggressive especially against top players, I never thought of her matches as boring. In fact, her matches are always exciting since she chases and returns shots that I believe should have been clean winners.