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View Full Version : Justine: My match against Serena took me a lot of energy


friendsita
Aug 16th, 2007, 02:16 PM
This is what Juju told in Toronto about her defeat in Wimbledon, seems that Serena means a lot to her...
Q. Since you've been here, you've been asked a lot of questions about your last competitive match which was the semifinal at Wimbledon. You said you'd try to take that as a learning experience. Now that you've had a chance to reflect on it for like a month, what exactly did you learn from it?
JUSTINE HENIN: Well, I just took a few days to think about that, and now that's from the past. I just want to move forward and look at this tournament and be focused on the future.
But you know sometimes you just have to accept that you have moments of weakness, that's it. Physically, mentally, that emotionally it's a little bit too much.
I thought my match against Serena was one of the most emotional match of my career, because it was the first time I did beat her on another surface than mine on the clay. So it's been very emotional. It took me a lot of energy. :tape: :lol: :tape:
Yeah, I think that there was a better player in front of me, and sometimes you have to accept that. That you're not at your best, and the other one can compete, the other one can win. And you need a lot of humility to accept this kind of situation. That's very important. That's what I try to do right after Wimbledon. And even if it's painful a little bit for a few days, you learn a lot of things about yourself, too.

http://www.rogerscup.com/2/en/draws/interviews/henin_15.asp

cellophane
Aug 16th, 2007, 09:43 PM
I'm not sure what's so funny.

Thanx4nothin
Aug 16th, 2007, 09:44 PM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.

Sir Stefwhit
Aug 16th, 2007, 09:54 PM
To be honest I don't think Justine is up late a night thinking about Serena. If anything as a Serena supporter I appreciate Juju's honesty. Serena's not the type to let things out that show any signs of weekness. That's why Serena's not likely to say similar type things about Justine as well. Although I think Serena trully favors her chances in any matchup against Juju on any surface, she also knows she has to be playing a high level against someone like Justine. So I don't think it's accurate to suggest Serena isn't thinking about Justine or isn't concerned when she see her in the draw. I think the both welcome the challenge and both get butterflies facing one another. It's probably more emotional than physical for both players.

frenchie
Aug 16th, 2007, 09:55 PM
LOL

Henin has such a low self-esteem!!

pigam
Aug 16th, 2007, 09:59 PM
I think it's "refreshing" about Justine.
she's one of the few topplayers who often talks about her insecurities. I know some people find that annoying. I don't. Probably because I know how it is to be good at something, but still feel insecure about it. it's a caracter trait you can't change.
I'm not surprised she titles her match against Serena as emotionnaly tough. Why is that so strange? If this board is somewhat of a barometer of "the buzz" in tennis world, than that Wimbledon match (and any other serena-Justine) is bound to be intense/nervewrecking/energy sapping. It goes for fans, but also for players.

arn
Aug 16th, 2007, 10:03 PM
You can only like her honesty :yeah:

Bijoux0021
Aug 16th, 2007, 10:05 PM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.
:worship: :worship:

DavidEllul
Aug 16th, 2007, 10:25 PM
LOL

Henin has such a low self-esteem!!


Are you sure you know what self-esteem is :lol:

Craigy
Aug 16th, 2007, 10:35 PM
Are you sure you know what self-esteem is :lol:

Everybody has self-esteem.
--
But yeah, the match probably did take it out of her emotionally so much. She really did want the win so badly.

mckyle.
Aug 16th, 2007, 10:53 PM
I think that even if Justine beat Serena 6-1 6-1 she would have still lost to Marion. Justine gets flustered at Wimbledon. It happened in 2005 when she lost first round as a favorite. Her golden moment was supposed to be against mentally weak Mauresmo so she could win the career slam, but managed to lose. And then in the third set against Bartoli she realized how close she was yet again to winning Wimbledon. Serena didn't take a lot out of her, the Wimbledon pressure did.

Steffica Greles
Aug 16th, 2007, 10:57 PM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.

Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.

woosey
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:04 PM
To be honest I don't think Justine is up late a night thinking about Serena. If anything as a Serena supporter I appreciate Juju's honesty. Serena's not the type to let things out that show any signs of weekness. That's why Serena's not likely to say similar type things about Justine as well. Although I think Serena trully favors her chances in any matchup against Juju on any surface, she also knows she has to be playing a high level against someone like Justine. So I don't think it's accurate to suggest Serena isn't thinking about Justine or isn't concerned when she see her in the draw. I think the both welcome the challenge and both get butterflies facing one another. It's probably more emotional than physical for both players.

i think they both her a healthy respect for one another's games.

plus, there is stuff between them and that is brought onto the court. i don't care what anybody says. i think on some level, they both feel they have something to prove. especially henin.

Pureracket
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:04 PM
To be honest I don't think Justine is up late a night thinking about Serena. If anything as a Serena supporter I appreciate Juju's honesty. Serena's not the type to let things out that show any signs of weekness. That's why Serena's not likely to say similar type things about Justine as well. Although I think Serena trully favors her chances in any matchup against Juju on any surface, she also knows she has to be playing a high level against someone like Justine. So I don't think it's accurate to suggest Serena isn't thinking about Justine or isn't concerned when she see her in the draw. I think the both welcome the challenge and both get butterflies facing one another. It's probably more emotional than physical for both players.Her quote suggests otherwise.

woosey
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:05 PM
You can only like her honesty :yeah:

if she'd only bring that to the court. :lol:

Shepster
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:08 PM
in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.
What do you mean in the long run? Serena said in her post match interview she would have won if she was fit... :tape:

Bijoux0021
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:08 PM
if she'd only bring that to the court. :lol:
Yeah, that would be refreshing.

Pureracket
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.This is rubbish. Serena won the first Slam. She whimpered in the Frech to the eventual winner, and she lost because of an injury @ Wimbledon. Has Justine done better this year @ the Slams than Serena?

Detractors like yourself focus on shallow things and comb over the facts in order to justify some kind of superiority for your favs when the facts are always obvious on the court and in the results.

Then again, I'm responding to a post about Serena based on something Justine said.:lol: What the hell are you talking about when you say, "Talk the talk?"

winone23
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:10 PM
[QUOTE=Steffica Greles;11430269]Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force [QUOTE]

Stop acting as if Justine is winning multiple slams each year :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

swissmr
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:16 PM
[QUOTE=Steffica Greles;11430269]Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force [QUOTE]

Stop acting as if Justine is winning multiple slams each year :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I think making the finals of every slam in 2006 qualifies her being a 'major force'. :rolleyes:

Donny
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:16 PM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.

Serena: AO winner, FO Quarterfinalist, Wimbledon Quarterfinalist

Justine: Didn't play AO, FO winner, Wimbledon Semifinalist.

Serena's had better results at majors this year.

Pureracket
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:19 PM
[quote=winone23;11430346][quote=Steffica Greles;11430269]Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force

I think making the finals of every slam in 2006 qualifies her being a 'major force'. :rolleyes:That makes her ranked up there with the likes of Jankovic, Maria Sharapova, Elena Dementieva, Vaidisova, and Ivanovic. "Major force" and "winning" aren't the same thing.

Nicolás89
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:22 PM
the truth is that justine had achieved much more than serena in the last years.

Pureracket
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:31 PM
the truth is that justine had achieved much more than serena in the last years.I thought you'd left the board because of cancer. Seriously, what happened with that?:confused:

Beny
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Justine needn't and shouldn't have said this imo...but that's my point of view and some people appreciate this quote..

It's like Justine can't realise that she's as good as Serena..maybe better, but still, Serena is a too big champion in her eyes. Of course, it's important to have respect towards her(Serena),it's the right thing but Justine's respect is just too big..

She should have taken it as a normal match, and not so much pressure and a win at the end that completely drained her.
But there were more factors as well imo. underestimating Bartoli, then Marion was really playing well,pressure in the 3rd set..

Donny
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:34 PM
the truth is that justine had achieved much more than serena in the last years.

Last years? The two last years? Or the nine last years? You need to be more specific if that claim is to be true.

Bijoux0021
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Justine needn't and shouldn't have said this imo...but that's my point of view and some people appreciate this quote..

It's like Justine can't realise that she's as good as Serena..maybe better, but still, Serena is a too big champion in her eyes. Of course, it's important to have respect towards her(Serena),it's the right thing but Justine's respect is just too big..

She should have taken it as a normal match, and not so much pressure and a win at the end that completely drained her.
But there were more factors as well imo. underestimating Bartoli, then Marion was really playing well,pressure in the 3rd set..
On what planet?

Mudbone
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Henin needs to stop making excuses...Its time for Justine to simply admit Bartolis outsmarted her and kicked her butt straight up......

Beny
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:39 PM
On what planet?

The one you walk on ;)

winone23
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:40 PM
[QUOTE=winone23;11430346][QUOTE=Steffica Greles;11430269]Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force

I think making the finals of every slam in 2006 qualifies her being a 'major force'. :rolleyes:

No comprende :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Nicolás89
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:40 PM
I thought you'd left the board because of cancer. Seriously, what happened with that?:confused:

i decided not to left the board and just post sporadically :D , and i have to wair for a surgery.

Direwolf
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:42 PM
it was probably the same thing about Lindsay Davenport..
i meant that Australian Open...
it was a turnaround for her, one of her emotional win..

but i dont think that Justine should blame that match against Serena
because of her defeat...
She did lead a set and a break..
and somehow, she wasnt going for it anymore..
she was letting marion take control of the points...

Conor
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Henin needs to stop making excuses...Its time for Justine to simply admit Bartolis outsmarted her and kicked her butt straight up......

****Yeah, I think that there was a better player in front of me, and sometimes you have to accept that.

:weirdo:

lolas
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:44 PM
I think it's nice to see that Justine reflects on their head to head record. It's no secret that her and Serena are the biggest current champions of the sport.

Pureracket
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:51 PM
i decided not to left the board and just post sporadically :D , and i have to wair for a surgery.You've posted like every single day since your announcement...LOL! Nah, but seriously, I hope your surgery goes well. Blessings!

Nicolás89
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:55 PM
You've posted like every single day since your announcement...LOL! Nah, but seriously, I hope your surgery goes well. Blessings!

just once or twice per day :confused: :wavey:

Vamos.
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:56 PM
I think that even if Justine beat Serena 6-1 6-1 she would have still lost to Marion. Justine gets flustered at Wimbledon. It happened in 2005 when she lost first round as a favorite. Her golden moment was supposed to be against mentally weak Mauresmo so she could win the career slam, but managed to lose. And then in the third set against Bartoli she realized how close she was yet again to winning Wimbledon. Serena didn't take a lot out of her, the Wimbledon pressure did.

She didn't manage to lose. Mauresmo managed to win. :rolleyes:

I hate that. The mentally weak Mauresmo became mentally strong for two sets. She is the better grasscourt player if she keeps her head together and she did it for two sets and that is why she won. Respect that.

Pureracket
Aug 16th, 2007, 11:59 PM
just once or twice per day :confused: :wavey:The more the merrier. It's all good either way.

Bijoux0021
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:01 AM
The one you walk on ;)
Obviously not the one Justine walks on.

Mudbone
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:01 AM
I think it's nice to see that Justine reflects on their head to head record. It's no secret that her and Serena are the biggest current champions of the sport.

Ahhh Duh!! Venus Williams is a much greater champion than Henin....4 Wimbledon tiles are far more prestigeous than 4 French Opens...Serena is on a pedastall all of her own...Stop tyring to give Justine and her 6 slams a spot beside Serena and her 8(including all 4 majors}

LindsayRulz
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:04 AM
I know she tries to understand what happened at Wimbledon but I think she should stop to think about it.

jujufreak
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:12 AM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.

oh come on, when Justine's on the other side of the net, Serena DOES feel it! I think it's great Justine has a lot of respect for Serena and never tries to put the blame on an injury after losing a match.

thrust
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:15 AM
No doubt the win against Serena at Wimbledon was tough both physically and emotionally for Justine. Perhaps Justine was over confident against Bartoli or perhaps she did develop some sort of injury during the match, as she seemed to be in total control for a set and a half. Fortunately for me I suppose, I did not see the match, but I can^t imagine Justine losing so many games in a row to someone like Bartoli unless something was physically wrong. Serna yes but Bartoli, no way!

jujufreak
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:15 AM
To be honest I don't think Justine is up late a night thinking about Serena. If anything as a Serena supporter I appreciate Juju's honesty. Serena's not the type to let things out that show any signs of weekness. That's why Serena's not likely to say similar type things about Justine as well. Although I think Serena trully favors her chances in any matchup against Juju on any surface, she also knows she has to be playing a high level against someone like Justine. So I don't think it's accurate to suggest Serena isn't thinking about Justine or isn't concerned when she see her in the draw. I think the both welcome the challenge and both get butterflies facing one another. It's probably more emotional than physical for both players.

:yeah: :worship:

woosey
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Justine needn't and shouldn't have said this imo...but that's my point of view and some people appreciate this quote..

It's like Justine can't realise that she's as good as Serena..maybe better, but still, Serena is a too big champion in her eyes. Of course, it's important to have respect towards her(Serena),it's the right thing but Justine's respect is just too big..

She should have taken it as a normal match, and not so much pressure and a win at the end that completely drained her.
But there were more factors as well imo. underestimating Bartoli, then Marion was really playing well,pressure in the 3rd set..

considering that she's been on the other side of the net against serena, i would imagine there's a reason for the "big" respect she gives serena. :lol:

maybe justine's just in awe of serena. it is a lot to take in.

woosey
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Obviously not the one Justine walks on.

:lol:

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:24 AM
[QUOTE=Beny;11430472]
It's like Justine can't realise that she's as good as Serena..maybe better,

Good on Justine for not being as delusional as some of her fans. She fears Serena and Venus regardless of their conditioning and is very happy to get a win by any means necessary. I think it says a lot about her mentality if it took so much out of her to defeat a clearly ailing Serena with no BH or mobility.:help:

AmeDevotee
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:31 AM
She didn't manage to lose. Mauresmo managed to win. :rolleyes:

I hate that. The mentally weak Mauresmo became mentally strong for two sets. She is the better grasscourt player if she keeps her head together and she did it for two sets and that is why she won. Respect that.

:yeah:

Craigy
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:34 AM
the truth is that justine had achieved much more than serena in the last years.

That's got nothing to do with Justine losing energy though...

Matt01
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:38 AM
Ahhh Duh!! Venus Williams is a much greater champion than Henin....4 Wimbledon tiles are far more prestigeous than 4 French Opens...Serena is on a pedastall all of her own...Stop tyring to give Justine and her 6 slams a spot beside Serena and her 8(including all 4 majors}


Troll.

jdyshrky
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:45 AM
God, losing to Marion in the semis of a Slam would drive anyone over the age...

vettipooh
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:53 AM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.

Queen serena will continue to talk the talk, and walk the walk, on that red carpet that leads right into the Hall of Fame, you Dumbo! Btw, 8 slams beats 6, any day and twice on Thursdays!!:lol:

moby
Aug 17th, 2007, 01:51 AM
Henin needs to stop making excuses...Its time for Justine to simply admit Bartolis outsmarted her and kicked her butt straight up......"Yeah, I think that there was a better player in front of me, and sometimes you have to accept that." - Justine

That was in the original post. Seriously, can you not read, or can you not read?

I know some players who need to stop making excuses. Justine's not one of them.

wolfgang
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:01 AM
JUSTINE HENIN: But you know sometimes you just have to accept that you have moments of weakness, that's it. Physically, mentally, that emotionally it's a little bit too much. Yeah, I think that there was a better player in front of me, and sometimes you have to accept that. That you're not at your best, and the other one can compete, the other one can win. And you need a lot of humility to accept this kind of situation. That's very important.

Well said, Justine. Showing a wisdom and maturity not shared by all on the tour.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:10 AM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.
What makes you think that.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:12 AM
Are you sure you know what self-esteem is :lol:
Wasn't she joking?

thrust
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:22 AM
MUDbone- Noone is saying Justine is better than Serena or Venus, at their best, on grass or a fast hard court. Four FO titles are as equally impressive as four Wimbledons, except for those who are not as successful on clay. Try chilling out, there is no reason for you to be so defensive and bitter over this!

Stamp Paid
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:25 AM
She is still timid. heh.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:35 AM
[quote]Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.Guess you've forgotten that Serena was out injured and as you already know, winning slams is more important to Serena than her rankings. If you look at the rankings, Serena has played less matches than any of the top 10 players and is still ranked number 8. BTW, Serena is the Princess and Venus is the Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.She was more than 10 lbs. overweight at the AO and it didn't stop no show so why would 10 lbs. make a difference. All Serena needs is some match play.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.Serena's got it like that, she can walk the walk on the red carpet, change clothes, and walk the walk on the tennis court.

swissmr
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:36 AM
It's clear that some Serena fans are still not over this defeat. It was over a month ago. Move on. Chill. :smoke:

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:41 AM
It's clear that some Serena fans are still not over this defeat. It was over a month ago. Move on. Chill. :smoke:
LOL!!!!! I just saw the players in your signature. Now, I get it.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Junex
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:42 AM
What is so wrong with what Justine said.....?

She was asked a question about her SF lost in the Wimbledon and how it affects her....
She give a direct,honest & complete answer... with no excuses...
How can you even fault her?


But then again, only thinking people can understand this, and this thread shows that a lot of you have "hatred" cloud your thinking mind!

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:47 AM
i think they both her a healthy respect for one another's games.

plus, there is stuff between them and that is brought onto the court. i don't care what anybody says. i think on some level, they both feel they have something to prove. especially henin.
I think Justine beating Serena in Wimbledon meant more to Justine than it did to Serena. If Serena wasn't injured that would be a different story. I also don't think that Justine lays awake at night thinking about Serena. I'm sure they're both excited when they play each other. That being said, Justine has something to prove to herself and to Serena. As it stands, until Justine beats Serena on a regular basis, I don't think it's going to worry Serena. You know how the sisters are, if you beat them once, the next time they meet, 99% of the time, you're going to get a beat down.

I think Justine's statement is being blown out of proportion. Of course she has self esteem, after all, she's ranked number one and even Serena has said the Justine is the one to beat..

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:50 AM
What do you mean in the long run? Serena said in her post match interview she would have won if she was fit... :tape:
One would think so since she took Justine to 3 sets with a sprained thumb. It's not as though it was one of Justine's best matches.

swissmr
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:55 AM
LOL!!!!! I just saw the players in your signature. Now, I get it.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Typical. You assume because Serena has handed beatdowns to the players in my sig, I have something against Serena. Who hasn't Serena given a beatdown to at some point or another? Believe me I have nothing against Serena, I just think some people are making way too much of that loss and this quote. :shrug: And you're one of them :)

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:57 AM
Ahhh Duh!! Venus Williams is a much greater champion than Henin....4 Wimbledon tiles are far more prestigeous than 4 French Opens...Serena is on a pedastall all of her own...Stop tyring to give Justine and her 6 slams a spot beside Serena and her 8(including all 4 majors}
What does Venus 4 Wimbledon titles have to do with this thread?

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:59 AM
Typical. You assume because Serena has handed beatdowns to the players in my sig, I have something against Serena. Who hasn't Serena given a beatdown to at some point or another? Believe me I have nothing against Serena, I just think some people are making way too much of that loss and this quote. :shrug: And you're one of them :)Typical. You backpedal now when your whole "move on" comment directed towards Serena fans was flagged. Ho-Hum, you defend JH over Serena, then you focus some kind of condescending remark towards Serena's fans, then you do your whole "typical" remark. Sweet!

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:04 AM
It's clear that some Serena fans are still not over this defeat. It was over a month ago. Move on. Chill. :smoke:
Obviously you're blind to some of the post from Justine fans. Perhaps you should be telling them to chill. I'm sure they're some Serena fans that hated Justine beating her but anyone with an ounce of sense knows you can't beat the number one player with a sprain thumb and no backhand.

swissmr
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:06 AM
Typical. You backpedal now when your whole "move on" comment directed towards Serena fans was flagged. Ho-Hum, you defend JH over Serena, then you focus some kind of condescending remark towards Serena's fans, then you do your whole "typical" remark. Sweet!

How did I backpedal? In my second post I said you're making too much of that loss, which pretty much means the same thing as 'move on'. ;) And as for defending JH over Serena? Am i more of a fan of Justine than Serena? Yes. Does that make me a "hater"? No.

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:07 AM
How did I backpedal? In my second post I said you're making too much of that loss, which pretty much means the same thing as 'move on'. ;) And as for defending JH over Serena? Am i more of a fan of Justine than Serena? Yes. Does that make me a "hater"? No.Move on.

Apoleb
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:09 AM
Injured or not, that was an incredibely important win for Justine. If anything, Serena's injuries would have added more pressure on her. She had never beaten a Williams outside clay, and in their last hard court match, she lost her nerves and blew it. I'm really not sure why people are acting somewhat surprised to what she said. It was a very important match for her confidence and her career.

And people should stop overexagerating Serena's injuries. Yes, her backhand was hindered, but I still think she would have taken out almost anyone else besides Justine and maybe Venus. :shrug: Her serve was on total fire, and her movement was reasonably good compared to her earlier matches in the tournament.

swissmr
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:10 AM
Obviously you're blind to some of the post from Justine fans. Perhaps you should be telling them to chill. I'm sure they're some Serena fans that hated Justine beating her but anyone with an ounce of sense knows you can't beat the number one player with a sprain thumb and no backhand.

Please note, I wasn't aiming that at you. And as for the Justine fans, they don't have as much to argue about given as Justine won the match. As for whether the outcome would have been different if Serena hadn't been injured, I don't think there'll ever be an agreement on that.

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:15 AM
[QUOTE=swissmr;11431300]It's clear that some Serena fans are still not over this defeat.

I guess you would know after the two ass kicking Maria received from both Serena and Venus to their respective major championships. :rolleyes: If you can recover from that then it certainly not a problem for the rest of us.

Please keep up with the conversation as this is about Justine's defeat by Marion and Justine using Serena as an excuse.:tape:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:15 AM
It took me a lot of energy. [/COLOR][/B]

How many weeks has she taken off recuping after Wimbie? Bartoli was just a blip on the screen, as the real energy drainer camefrom loss of energy after the Serena win on grass me thinks... Too bad one match can cause her that much physical and emotional stress and need of so long of a recup (okay, that along with the new boyfriend! :devil:).

:lol: :smoke:

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Injured or not, that was an incredibely important win for Justine. If anything, Serena's injuries would have added more pressure on her. She had never beaten a Williams outside clay, and in their last hard court match, she lost her nerves and blew it. I'm really not sure why people are acting somewhat surprised to what she said. It was a very important match for her confidence and her career.

And people should stop overexagerating Serena's injuries. Yes, her backhand was hindered, but I still think she would have taken out almost anyone else besides Justine and maybe Venus. :shrug: Her serve was on total fire, and her movement was reasonably good compared to her earlier matches in the tournament.
I don't think that anyone has said that the win wasn't important to Justine. As far as over exaggerating Serena's injury she's still wearing support on her wrist and hasn't played since Wimbledon. You're really giving Serena to much credit if you think she could have beat all of the other players in the top 10 with a sprained thumb.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:20 AM
Please note, I wasn't aiming that at you. And as for the Justine fans, they don't have as much to argue about given as Justine won the match. As for whether the outcome would have been different if Serena hadn't been injured, I don't think there'll ever be an agreement on that.
You said Serena fans and I was letting you know that there are also some Justine fans that also need to chill but you neglected to mention them for some reason. As far as Justine beating a injured Serena as long as she didn't win Wimbledon, I'm cool.
:bounce::bounce::bounce:

Apoleb
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:27 AM
You're really giving Serena to much credit if you think she could have beat all of the other players in the top 10 with a sprained thumb.

No I'm not. I thought she actually played better than in her first few rounds. Her backhand was hindered but it was by no means non existent. Staying out is the right thing to do because if she plays the injury will get worse.

SV_Fan
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:36 AM
Justine did not beat her she was injured she got lucky has she did in other tourneys I might be bitter but I am being honest.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:37 AM
No I'm not. I thought she actually played better than in her first few rounds. Her backhand was hindered but it was by no means non existent. Staying out is the right thing to do because if she plays the injury will get worse.
Serena played like sh*t. Justine should have been all over Serena but she let her go 3 sets. :All that did was give Serena more confidence the next time around.

wetfre
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:45 AM
Yeah Serena was hinder by an injury. She wasnt even hitting her two hand backhand like we normally see her. Her techinque was a akward because it looked like she was using her right hand only and barely using her left and of course she tried to slice alot.

moby
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:47 AM
Serena played like sh*t. Justine should have been all over Serena but she let her go 3 sets. :All that did was give Serena more confidence the next time around.I'm with Apoleb on this one. Serena played far better than she did in her previous matches at Wimbledon. And her serving was monstrous.

She has on many occasions played worse that that when she wasn't injured. I mean, it was still a pity that she was injured, because she would have been totally awesome instead of being thousands of notches below her best like she usually is. :p

Fingernailz
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:34 AM
Serena: AO winner, FO Quarterfinalist, Wimbledon Quarterfinalist

Justine: Didn't play AO, FO winner, Wimbledon Semifinalist.

Serena's had better results at majors this year.

Justine: 12-1, one title.

Serena: 15-2, one title.

The better % belongs to Justine, and they're even in Slam titles.

Fingernailz
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:41 AM
As for the match, I'm impressed with Justine's awareness. I knew and I think her fans knew she'd never scored a win over Serena off of clay, but often players don't follow things so closely. Or at least, they pretend they don't. Justine's honest and informed. I like that: I do get the feeling Henin knows her head-to-heads against her big rivals, or by how much she leads Sharapova in the rankings, etc.

A few weeks later, I look at the Wimbledon semi and the quarter as separate things. It was important for Justine to exorcise the ghosts of Miami, and she did. That was a win Justine needed over Serena, but Serena maybe did not need so badly over Justine. Justine got it, and that was a victory on top of a victory, maybe. :)

As for the semifinal against Marion, that was just one of those things and Justine appeared to acknowledge that in her statement. Marion played a great set and a half and that beat her on that day. Maybe they play each day on grass on Centre Court of Wimbledon for the next 100, and Justine doesn't lose any others. But that was the day she was vulnerable and Marion capitalized.

vejh
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:53 AM
Wow fingernailz, that was a good post.

I don't think people understand how much respect Ju has for her opponents. Not just Serena or Venus, but all the girls who play her real hard and beat her. She had/has as much respect for Linds and KC. When she beat Linds at the AO that was literally a turning point in her career. She began to think that she could compete with the others on a nonclay court.

Even when Ju had mps in Miami, she still couldn't believe she could beat Serena on HC.lol. And she blew it. So the next meeting on a non-clay surface was THAT much bigger in her eyes.

So when she finally overcame her bag of nerves and jitters to beat Serena on a non-clay surface, she proved something to herself. It will be interesting to see her approach to the Serenas and Venuses of the WTA tour from now on.

BTW, notice how she calls clay her surface.lol.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:57 AM
Wow fingernailz, that was a good post.

I don't think people understand how much respect Ju has for her opponents. Not just Serena or Venus, but all the girls who play her real hard and beat her. She had/has as much respect for Linds and KC. When she beat Linds at the AO that was literally a turning point in her career. She began to think that she could compete with the others on a nonclay court.

Even when Ju had mps in Miami, she still couldn't believe she could beat Serena on HC.lol. And she blew it. So the next meeting on a non-clay surface was THAT much bigger in her eyes.

So when she finally overcame her bag of nerves and jitters to beat Serena on a non-clay surface, she proved something to herself. It will be interesting to see her approach to the Serenas and Venuses of the WTA tour from now on.

BTW, notice how she calls clay her surface.lol.
I'm glad she said that and it wasn't Venus saying that Wimbledon was her court. This board would be on fire speaking of the arrogance of Venus. :lol:

harloo
Aug 17th, 2007, 06:18 AM
Justine's win over Serena at Wimbledon kind of reminds me of how Roger finally defeated Rafa on Clay in Hamburg. It was the talk of the town, Fed had a chance to win the French and this was his "breakthrough" win. The match was important for tennis analysts because it somehow proved that Roger could defeat Nadal on his best surface.

In the grand scheme of things the match doesn't mean much because Justine didn't win the title. Maybe if it was a slam final that win over Serena would of served notice to the tennis world. However, to me Justine struggling to close out an injured Serena in the qtrs only proved to me that a healthy Serena still intimidates her on any non-clay surface.

harloo
Aug 17th, 2007, 06:38 AM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.
And Justine has won what slam lately? The FO, but she wins that one every year. So when will Justine break the cycle because afterall she hasn't won a non clay slam in how many years?:tape:

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

Since you profess to know so much about Justine's "attitude" then tell me why she reached all four slam finals in the same year and only won on well..er....you know.;) I think you may want to focus on the current #1 player being beaten in slam finals by Amelie before you get on your high horse about Serena.:)

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.
[/quote]

Serena will keep talking as long as she has detractors like you. But don't worry when she makes her next statement we know you'll be posting another obnoxious rant about her comments. :o I notice that Serena seems to get under your skin, that girl is off the chain.:lol:

StarDuvallGrant
Aug 17th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Justine's win over Serena at Wimbledon kind of reminds me of how Roger finally defeated Rafa on Clay in Hamburg. It was the talk of the town, Fed had a chance to win the French and this was his "breakthrough" win. The match was important for tennis analysts because it somehow proved that Roger could defeat Nadal on his best surface.

In the grand scheme of things the match doesn't mean much because Justine didn't win the title. Maybe if it was a slam final that win over Serena would of served notice to the tennis world. However, to me Justine struggling to close out an injured Serena in the qtrs only proved to me that a healthy Serena still intimidates her on any non-clay surface.

Basically :)

shap_half
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:18 AM
I appreciate Justine's ability to be honest with her emotions. It's liberating. And I hope this liberty allows her to play better and believe in herself more. I also like the fact that she dealt with the loss by taking time off. She really is very in tune with herself. Sometimes the worst thing to do is to play through a tough situation. I think had Myskina taken time off after that Olympic loss to Justine things wouldn't have gone the way things are for her.

Nowadays, Justine gives herself time to asses her situation and deal with things accordingly. And she isn't afraid to talk about what scares her or what worries her, and as a fan, I really appreciate it.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:50 AM
The IQ level in this thread is just astounding.

In The Zone
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:52 AM
I think this situation is very common for the top players. Look at Capriati in the 2004 US Open. Any matchup she had with Serena was so intense and so emotional that often times, she fell flat in the next round. She was beaten by Dementieva in a match Capriati should have won. An even better example would be the 2004 French. That was Capriati's slam to take but her tank was empty after an emotional, of course, three setter quarterfinal with Serena.

It's very rare for a player to have such an emotional match that round before and to keep up their intensity without falling flat in the rounds after. From the few I can remember, Venus at 2005 Wimbledon, Capriati at 2001 Australian, and Serena at this year's Australian Open had numerous, intense matches and only seemed to push themselves further as they went.

On any other surface, Justine's lack of emotion because she was drained would not have caused her defeat. On grass, however, and with Bartoli playing her top level of tennis, Justine's loss was inevitable. As a champion, you just have to tip your cap. Justine is one of the best champions out there. If the 2005 1R loss to Daniilidou didn't shake her, I doubt this will.

shap_half
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:14 AM
I think this situation is very common for the top players. Look at Capriati in the 2004 US Open. Any matchup she had with Serena was so intense and so emotional that often times, she fell flat in the next round. She was beaten by Dementieva in a match Capriati should have won. An even better example would be the 2004 French. That was Capriati's slam to take but her tank was empty after an emotional, of course, three setter quarterfinal with Serena.

It's very rare for a player to have such an emotional match that round before and to keep up their intensity without falling flat in the rounds after. From the few I can remember, Venus at 2005 Wimbledon, Capriati at 2001 Australian, and Serena at this year's Australian Open had numerous, intense matches and only seemed to push themselves further as they went.

On any other surface, Justine's lack of emotion because she was drained would not have caused her defeat. On grass, however, and with Bartoli playing her top level of tennis, Justine's loss was inevitable. As a champion, you just have to tip your cap. Justine is one of the best champions out there. If the 2005 1R loss to Daniilidou didn't shake her, I doubt this will.

I don't think it's that simple. Justine's had many emotional matches and then go on to comprehensively defeat her opponents in the following round: USO SF '03 RG 4R '05 and OLY SF '04. And remember that she defeated Bartoli, easily, the week before.

I really think that Justine's nerves worry her to the point of a meltdown. She put all her focus into this match. Considering the history between Serena and Justine, especially with two wasted match points in Miami, this match took over Justine. Emotionally and mentally, her eggs were in one basket; and really, who can blame her? In the tournament she's never won, against her biggest rival. When everything is put together, this match was too big for her to handle and she's played 4 straight weeks of tennis. And the added pressure of playing an injured player (though I do believe Serena didn't play sa badly as she could have). It got to her. She didn't play a good match against Serena and when everything was over, she had nothing left to give. I don't think it would have mattered who she played against in the SF, she had very little in the tank, and she made a great run in match and almost made it to the final, but what are you gonna do?

I hope she's learned from it and is ready to move on.

Hots4Safin
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:18 AM
Doesn't anyone think it's really sad that she puts so much on this win when her opponent could not hit a backhand? Besides everyone knows it was the magic of James Bond that lost JH the match.

Kunal
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:26 AM
just waiting for the US open when we can see these two players competing

Petersmiler
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:42 AM
So she admitted that she was glad she beat Serena on a surface other than clay.

She said that she was beaten by the better player in the semi.

Why do the trolls have to come in here and cause such a stink?

Forehand_Volley
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:19 AM
I think it's "refreshing" about Justine.
she's one of the few topplayers who often talks about her insecurities. I know some people find that annoying. I don't. Probably because I know how it is to be good at something, but still feel insecure about it. it's a caracter trait you can't change.
I'm not surprised she titles her match against Serena as emotionnaly tough. Why is that so strange? If this board is somewhat of a barometer of "the buzz" in tennis world, than that Wimbledon match (and any other serena-Justine) is bound to be intense/nervewrecking/energy sapping. It goes for fans, but also for players.
Justine Henin is probably the only player besides Venus Williams and Jennifer Capriati that have been able to consistently rattle Serena Williams mentally on a tennis court at some point during their rivalries.

Henin has been candidly talking to the media about personal and professional issues that she's overcome mentally this year. Its no surprise that she would assert some importance of defeating a two-time Wimbledon champion on grass. Who wouldn't? Maybe that's Henin's way of putting emotional baggage behind her?

I do think that Henin and Williams over time have developed a tremendous amount of respect for each others accomplishments in the sport. Each knows that in order to defeat the other, they have to be playing on top of their game.

frontier
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:13 AM
I think Serena should throw away this 'I respect you ' thing and play Justine the way she used to play her before 07 with ruthlessness and aggresion.In all her losses it seems she wasnt playing her game but Justine's.
I strongly believe if they meet in New York Serena will win because from Wimbledon I also saw that Justine can be uncertain about her shots and from what I saw here in Toronto she is not sharp at all her serve can breakdown.I hope we see them playing a lot so that we can get competetive interesting matches .
She should give Bartoli credit she played with precision and ran Justine ragged moving her from side to side.Although the match with Serena took a lot out of her Bartoli never made an error in the final set and she stunned Justine wih her aggression just like she stunned Safina yesterday.

Bruno71
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:17 AM
I hope we see them playing a lot so that we can get competetive interesting matches .

I hope I never see the 2 of them play again...ugly matches this year.

Thanx4nothin
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:27 AM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.

Well I suppose the fact that Justine worries about such a 'washed up player' (as you indicate) reflects her own insecurities. Perhaps, like yourself she sees the omnipresent threat of Serena as the pinacle of our sport. Serena woke up at the AO, it was pretty frightening in the final, the rest of the field must be hoping she doesn't do the same at the US, but as you've said, there is no evidence to suggest she will.

frontier
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:30 AM
I hope I never see the 2 of them play again...ugly matches this year.You are spot on Bruno71...thats what they call winning ugly.On the other hand jj is due for a beatdown from Bartoli:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bruno71
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:35 AM
You are spot on Bruno71...thats what they call winning ugly.On the other hand jj is due for a beatdown from Bartoli:lol: :lol: :lol:

Was that supposed to have made sense?

nhissan
Aug 17th, 2007, 12:21 PM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.

/thread

justine&coria
Aug 17th, 2007, 01:13 PM
If you guys think that a fit Serena would've beaten Justine, good for you, but tennis isn't that simple/logic.
Serena didn't play well at Wimbledon against Justine, okay, why not ? But did Serena play well against Justine at RG ? Did Ivanovic's best forehand of the circuit (according to Petrova and many people here) worked against Justine in the FO finals ?
People underestimate Justine's play (with lots of spin and variation), which can make a player totally lose her way of playing (and I, as a regular tennis player, know that).
To lots of people, Serena at her best is a player who makes a lot of aces, winners from all over the court : and Serena can actually do that against the likes of Sharapova and other big hitters, but against Justine it's way more difficult, and to her fans, it means "Serena doesn't play her best".

Anyway, concerning what Justine said : she's just being honest, and I like that.
She put all her energy trying to beat Serena on grass, because this win would mean a lot to her (being number 1 doesn't make you the best on all surfaces, especially the one where she's short of one GS : she's still humble), and because if she could beat Serena, then she'd go on winning Wimbledon. At least she probably thought so and that's what probably made her lose.

She gave too much emotionnally in that match, and she'll learn from it. Anyway, it happens to every player : didn't Serena lose the Wimby finals against Sharapova after she hardly beat Mauresmo in the semis ?

eugreene2
Aug 17th, 2007, 01:19 PM
The '04 Serena was never REALLY right. But about Justine, she's a great champion but still can be a very nervous champion.

There are emotional matches and then there are emotional, pressure-packed matches. That is what this was for Justine.

Martian KC
Aug 17th, 2007, 02:51 PM
It's clear that some Serena fans are still not over this defeat. It was over a month ago. Move on. Chill. :smoke:

Word.
All the insecure williefans just came out of the woodworks in this thread.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:19 PM
I think Serena should throw away this 'I respect you ' thing and play Justine the way she used to play her before 07 with ruthlessness and aggresion.In all her losses it seems she wasnt playing her game but Justine's.
I strongly believe if they meet in New York Serena will win because from Wimbledon I also saw that Justine can be uncertain about her shots and from what I saw here in Toronto she is not sharp at all her serve can breakdown.I hope we see them playing a lot so that we can get competetive interesting matches .
She should give Bartoli credit she played with precision and ran Justine ragged moving her from side to side.Although the match with Serena took a lot out of her Bartoli never made an error in the final set and she stunned Justine wih her aggression just like she stunned Safina yesterday.
Serena really needs some matches under her belt b4 the Open.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Word.
All the insecure williefans just came out of the woodworks in this thread.
:lol::lol::lol:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.


Last I checked Serena is the A.O. and Miami champion. Has justine done more than that this year? And no semis don't count in this discussion we are talking big titles period.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:30 PM
Lol @ justine she beat an injured Serena bad leg, and one handed backhand, and it took her three sets, what a crock of shi*!

If she was emotionally drained it's because she put the pressure on herself. Almost every other former number one player would have dusted her off in two.

pigam
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:44 PM
If she was emotionally drained it's because she put the pressure on herself. Almost every other former number one player would have dusted her off in two.

exactly. nowhere did Justine say that it wasn't her own "fault". I think quite the contrary. she knows Serena was probably too much on her mind. she knows she shouldn't let it get to her, but it still happened. she's just being hounest about it :shrug:

DA FOREHAND
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:47 PM
exactly. nowhere did Justine say that it wasn't her own "fault". I think quite the contrary. she knows Serena was probably too much on her mind. she knows she shouldn't let it get to her, but it still happened. she's just being hounest about it :shrug:

I think that's great, and being honest about it will probably help her in their non clay matches in the future, it will be up to Serena to re-assert herself.

Bijoux0021
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:49 PM
Doesn't anyone think it's really sad that she puts so much on this win when her opponent could not hit a backhand? Besides everyone knows it was the magic of James Bond that lost JH the match.
Not only that, the backhand is Serena's best shot.

thrust
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:56 PM
If Serena did not think she could have won that Wimbledon match against Justine, she would not have played. She lost to Justine 2 out of three, Justine has 6 tournament wins to Serena^s 2, Justine has been #1 for nearly 80 weeks. Serena^s game is too powerful for her body^s natural ability, that is why she and other players, including Venus get injured so often. Too much power tennis in the WTA.

Bijoux0021
Aug 17th, 2007, 03:57 PM
Word.
All the insecure williefans just came out of the woodworks in this thread.
:lol: :lol:

Insecure Williams fans? That's a good one!

Beny
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Hots4Safin View Post
Doesn't anyone think it's really sad that she puts so much on this win when her opponent could not hit a backhand? Besides everyone knows it was the magic of James Bond that lost JH the match.
Not only that, the backhand is Serena's best shot.
:help:
You're exaggarating sooo much...

The BH is Serena's best shot?

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:42 PM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.
You said it all!

Bijoux0021
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:44 PM
:help:
You're exaggarating sooo much...

The BH is Serena's best shot?
The backhand is her best shot. The forehand is more likely to break down.

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:45 PM
What do you mean in the long run? Serena said in her post match interview she would have won if she was fit... :tape:
woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't count does it?!

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:47 PM
This is rubbish. Serena won the first Slam. She whimpered in the Frech to the eventual winner, and she lost because of an injury @ Wimbledon. Has Justine done better this year @ the Slams than Serena?

Detractors like yourself focus on shallow things and comb over the facts in order to justify some kind of superiority for your favs when the facts are always obvious on the court and in the results.

Then again, I'm responding to a post about Serena based on something Justine said.:lol: What the hell are you talking about when you say, "Talk the talk?"
It's called PRODUCE THE RESULTS. All the talk is BULLSHIT!

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:50 PM
Serena: AO winner, FO Quarterfinalist, Wimbledon Quarterfinalist

Justine: Didn't play AO, FO winner, Wimbledon Semifinalist.

Serena's had better results at majors this year.
PUT DOWN THE PIPE.........................NOW!!!!!!!!

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Queen serena will continue to talk the talk, and walk the walk, on that red carpet that leads right into the Hall of Fame, you Dumbo! Btw, 8 slams beats 6, any day and twice on Thursdays!!:lol:
6 slams in 5 years sounds better than 8 slams in 10 years to me any day.......................much more consistency GALORE.
And it ain't over yet!

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:01 PM
All the insecure williefans just came out of the woodworks in this thread.

Interesting, we fluctuate from arrogant to insecure.:rolleyes: What would be the reason for a Williams fan to be insecure? Let me remind you that it was a Williams who eventually held the Venus Rosewater Dish easily defeating Marion who defeated Justine thefore your logic is very flawed.

If Justine didn't have enough left to defeat Marion I doubt she would have feared better against Venus who has a better serve and movement. I have no doubt the results would have been the same to make it 9-1 bitchslapping.:lol:

Anyway the facts are: Williams - 2 majors + Miami:bounce:
Justine - 1 major

We are more concerned about injuries than Justine.:devil:

Conor
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
The backhand is her best shot. The forehand is more likely to break down.

Serena's serve is her best shot and that was firing as well as usual in Wimbledon QF. But obviously the backhand problem was a huge disadvantage...

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE]

Good on Justine for not being as delusional as some of her fans. She fears Serena and Venus regardless of their conditioning and is very happy to get a win by any means necessary. I think it says a lot about her mentality if it took so much out of her to defeat a clearly ailing Serena with no BH or mobility.:help:
Like they don't occasionally fear their opponents?!
They just don't ADMIT IT!

pigam
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:05 PM
Interesting, we fluctuate from arrogant to insecure.:rolleyes: What would be the reason for a Williams fan to be insecure? Let me remind you that it was a Williams who eventually held the Venus Rosewater Dish easily defeating Marion who defeated Justine thefore your logic is very flawed.

If Justine didn't have enough left to defeat Marion I doubt she would have feared better against Venus who has a better serve and movement. I have no doubt the results would have been the same to make it 9-1 bitchslapping.:lol:

Anyway the facts are: Williams - 2 majors + Miami:bounce:
Justine - 1 major

We are more concerned about injuries than Justine.:devil:

just for the record,
comparing one player's results, to two player's results isn't really fair, is it?
Like a lot of W fans always say: venus and Serena are two different players ;) !

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:13 PM
Yeah Serena was hinder by an injury. She wasnt even hitting her two hand backhand like we normally see her. Her techinque was a akward because it looked like she was using her right hand only and barely using her left and of course she tried to slice alot.
And slice happens to be a very effective shot on grass- it stays low and skids off the ground. Along with the way she was serving too.

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:18 PM
6 slams in 5 years sounds better than 8 slams in 10 years to me any day.......................much more consistency GALORE.
And it ain't over yet!

Tennis is not for the swift but for those who endure to the end. Ask Hingis and others about that. Likewise the Williams are not done yet. They have proven that they can come back from injuries and surgery and still kick ass regardless of others conssistency that got them to the top.:worship:


Like they don't occasionally fear their opponents?!
They just don't ADMIT IT!

Please enlighten us as to who these opponents are because we are not aware of them. Haven't you heard that they don't give credit to their opponents and do you understand the implication of this statement?;)

Conor
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:19 PM
And slice happens to be a very effective shot on grass- it stays low and skids off the ground. Along with the way she was serving too.

She hit the slice more times in the net than she did over it. It was more effective when she came over the backhand. Her serve and Justine's nervousness allowed her a set...

Stamp Paid
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:21 PM
And slice happens to be a very effective shot on grass- it stays low and skids off the ground. Along with the way she was serving too.Serena's slice ain't effective on any surface.

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:28 PM
comparing one player's results, to two player's results isn't really fair, is it?
Like a lot of W fans always say: venus and Serena are two different players ;) !

I understand your point but I was specifically responding to the poster who stated that Williams' fans were insecure therefore in this context I was discrediting such a claim because so far Williams' fans are more than happy with the results of the tournies that matters the most so far.

woosey
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:29 PM
Serena's slice ain't effective on any surface.

true. but that didn't stop her from using it on justine at the french unfortunately.

virex
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:32 PM
Bs.

Conor
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:32 PM
true. but that didn't stop her from using it on justine at the french unfortunately.

It was THAT bad I was almost encouraging her to stop and whack her backhand :lol: Please Serena, no more slicing... leave that to Justine :devil:

Realtennis
Aug 17th, 2007, 05:34 PM
Tennis is not for the swift but for those who endure to the end. Ask Hingis and others about that. Likewise the Williams are not done yet. They have proven that they can come back from injuries and surgery and still kick ass regardless of others conssistency that got them to the top.:worship:



Please enlighten us as to who these opponents are because we are not aware of them. Haven't you heard that they don't give credit to their opponents and do you understand the implication of this statement?;)
You're new to the game............you don't know tennis. You're just here for the sisters.
When they're gone, you probably will be too. I can tell without asking you, that you don't play the game.
Your comments are absurd and make no sense! LOL

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 06:16 PM
[QUOTE=Realtennis;11434858]You're new to the game............you don't know tennis. You're just here for the sisters.
When they're gone, you probably will be too. I can tell without asking you, that you don't play the game.

Your post is an indication that you are losing the argument badly.:lol: If all that you stated above is all true please explain to me what is egregious about that? From your wealth of tennis knowledge please enlighten me as to the intricacies that should qualify me to comment on tennis and be a fan of the sisters.:rolleyes:

Also what would be wrong with me if after the sisters retire my interest in tennis also wanes. Isn't that a natural thing with other fan bases such as Graf, Chris, Martina etc. therefore why the exception for the sisters? Enlighten us all!:(

MistyGrey
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:06 PM
:yeah: Justine for the honesty!
:yawn:@ the usual Williams fans rant. you guys need to chill!

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Last I checked Serena is the A.O. and Miami champion. Has justine done more than that this year? And no semis don't count in this discussion we are talking big titles period.

What a stupid thing to say. Justine has won Dubai, Doha, Warsaw, The French Open, and Eastbourne. That's titles on three different srfaces, and Justine will almost surely pick one up during the indoors season.

Oh, and since you seem like a fanbitch instead of a tennis fan, can I remind you than Henin is still alive in Toronto, a tier 1 on hardcourts?!

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:25 PM
I think that's great, and being honest about it will probably help her in their non clay matches in the future, it will be up to Serena to re-assert herself.

Question is, when will Serena pull her thumb out of her ass and do it?

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Interesting, we fluctuate from arrogant to insecure.:rolleyes:

Haven't studied much psychology, have we?

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:52 PM
just for the record,
comparing one player's results, to two player's results isn't really fair, is it?
Like a lot of W fans always say: venus and Serena are two different players ;) !
I agree.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:53 PM
And slice happens to be a very effective shot on grass- it stays low and skids off the ground. Along with the way she was serving too.
That may be true but it's not worth a heel of beans if you're playing the #1 and you can't use all of your weapons because you're injured. :help:

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:57 PM
:yeah: Justine for the honesty!
:yawn:@ the usual Williams fans rant. you guys need to chill!How profound.:rolleyes:

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2007, 08:59 PM
You're new to the game............you don't know tennis. You're just here for the sisters.
When they're gone, you probably will be too. I can tell without asking you, that you don't play the game.
Your comments are absurd and make no sense! LOL
Since you only have 123 post, how do you know why vlover is here? BTW, my sports writers don't play a particular sport but does that mean they don't know anything about it?

rjd1111
Aug 17th, 2007, 09:21 PM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.



A titanic victory over a player with 2 debilitating injuries?

Ju Ju gave everything she had for what would have been a breakthrough

for her and it turns out to be a hollow win because of the injuries.

Nothing was affirmed. And to lose the next match so easily.

Almost makes you feel sorry for her.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 17th, 2007, 09:22 PM
What a stupid thing to say. Justine has won Dubai, Doha, Warsaw, The French Open, and Eastbourne. That's titles on three different srfaces, and Justine will almost surely pick one up during the indoors season.

Oh, and since you seem like a fanbitch instead of a tennis fan, can I remind you than Henin is still alive in Toronto, a tier 1 on hardcourts?!

no unlike you i khew tennis existed before the woman in my avatar burst upon the scene.

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2007, 09:54 PM
Oh, and since you seem like a fanbitch instead of a tennis fan,

If the character of people like you, realtennis, heylookimgay, spencercarlos godominique and others of that ilk qualifies one to be a "tennis fan" then quite frankly I will rather be a sister's fan. I refuse to stoop so low to be part of that group.

can I remind you than Henin is still alive in Toronto, a tier 1 on hardcourts?!

US champion would be more impressive. If you haven't noticed we are only impressed by the biggies.:D

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:08 PM
no unlike you i khew tennis existed before the woman in my avatar burst upon the scene.

Then prove it by demonstrating a little bit of intelligence and an investigative property or two. Okay? Thanks.

Being old and stupid isn't better than being young and informed.

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:11 PM
[

If the character of people like you, realtennis, heylookimgay, spencercarlos godominique and others of that ilk qualifies one to be a "tennis fan" then quite frankly I will rather be a sister's fan. I refuse to stoop so low to be part of that group.

QUOTE]

US champion would be more impressive. If you haven't noticed we are only impressed by the biggies.:D

Oh I get your game. Impressed by the biggies, eh? Tell me when was the last time Venus or Serena made it past the QF of the US Open. Tell me when was it that Justine WON the US Open and yeah, when she also made the final.

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Oh I get your game. Impressed by the biggies, eh? Tell me when was the last time Venus or Serena made it past the QF of the US Open. Tell me when was it that Justine WON the US Open and yeah, when she also made the final.
I'm confused, are you a Monica fan, Justine fan, or simply a fan of anybody who plays against Venus or Serena?:confused:

Either way, you could very well be fighting an uphill battle.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:40 PM
Oh I get your game. Impressed by the biggies, eh? Tell me when was the last time Venus or Serena made it past the QF of the US Open. Tell me when was it that Justine WON the US Open and yeah, when she also made the final.

Stay current, all of the players named in your post have won a Grand Slam event this year. I say give it a week or three and we will know where all of them stand in the Us Open draw. At this point we should hope the three of them play the Open.

I like Venus' chances against Justine, or Serena if they were to meet at the US Open.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:44 PM
The IQ level in this thread is just astounding.
Which is different from most other threads, how?

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 10:58 PM
I'm confused, are you a Monica fan, Justine fan, or simply a fan of anybody who plays against Venus or Serena?:confused:

Either way, you could very well be fighting an uphill battle.

I'm not a Justine fan or a VeenReenababy fan, I guess you could say. I was just responding to two dumbasses who were trying to discredit Henin's accomplishments this year (2007)and at the US Open in years past.

Why does it matter who I'm a fan of if all I'm doing is pointing out facts. :confused:

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:03 PM
I'm not a Justine fan or a VeenReenababy fan, I guess you could say. I was just responding to two dumbasses who were trying to discredit Henin's accomplishments this year (2007)and at the US Open in years past.

Why does it matter who I'm a fan of if all I'm doing is pointing out facts. :confused:It seems a little deeper. You called them dumbasses. It's just that I've never seen you defend Venus and Serena so vehemently. You're not even an Henin fan? LOL!

faboozadoo15
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:06 PM
It seems a little deeper. You called them dumbasses. It's just that I've never seen you defend Venus and Serena so vehemently. You're not even an Henin fan? LOL!

What's to defend in here about the Queen and Baby Girl? It's not Justine's fans in here denigrating all their accomplishments and spinning this thread into something it shouldn't be.

:tape: And the two posters in this thread who I called out are dumbasses. I'm not the first to say it.

Pureracket
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:08 PM
What's to defend in here about the Queen and Baby Girl? It's not Justine's fans in here denigrating all their accomplishments and spinning this thread into something it shouldn't be.

:tape: And the two posters in this thread who I called out are dumbasses. I'm not the first to say it.Let me hasten to say that it doesn't matter much to me either way, boo, but there are certainly things in this particular thread that one could defend Venus and Serena about.

Then again, their fans will always do their own dirty work.

JH's fans are outsourcing....LOL!!!!!

friendsita
Aug 17th, 2007, 11:45 PM
She cares sooo much more about Serena than Serena doe sher, whether that benefits her or hinders her I'm not sure, in the long run though the truth is that Serena will look at the match and say I was injured badly otherwise I would have won, probably in 2, Ju however looks at it as a titanic victory.

Can't be more agree with you ;)

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:06 AM
This is rubbish. Serena won the first Slam. She whimpered in the Frech to the eventual winner, and she lost because of an injury @ Wimbledon. Has Justine done better this year @ the Slams than Serena?

Detractors like yourself focus on shallow things and comb over the facts in order to justify some kind of superiority for your favs when the facts are always obvious on the court and in the results.

Then again, I'm responding to a post about Serena based on something Justine said.:lol: What the hell are you talking about when you say, "Talk the talk?"
Justine maybe is W and SF in the only two slams she played but she is 2-0 vs Serena in grand slam play, so for me that counts more and you got to mention than Henin did not play at the Australian so for me W and SF are better than W, QF and QF for the year..
Jennifer Capriati had a better GS year in 2001 than Venus Williams, yet you and the Veetards claim that given the head to head Venus was the best player for that year..
This is where your hypocricy and double standards comes into play. :rolleyes:
Well not a surprise
:wavey:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:13 AM
Serena: AO winner, FO Quarterfinalist, Wimbledon Quarterfinalist

Justine: Didn't play AO, FO winner, Wimbledon Semifinalist.

Serena's had better results at majors this year.
I would have a hard time believing that two grand slams QF are more important than a grand slam semifinal.
Do people remmember Julie Halard for her three grand slam quarterfinals?
Or remmember Stevenson, Dokic and Kournikova as one time grand slam semifinalists?

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Justine maybe is W and SF in the only two slams she played but she is 2-0 vs Serena in grand slam play, so for me that counts more and you got to mention than Henin did not play at the Australian so for me W and SF are better than W, QF and QF for the year..
Jennifer Capriati had a better GS year in 2001 than Venus Williams, yet you and the Veetards claim that given the head to head Venus was the best player for that year..
This is where your hypocricy and double standards comes into play. :rolleyes:
Well not a surprise
:wavey:

Yes, she was absent from the AO. That's worse than losing in the first round, results wise.

Unless you're just going by GSs played? Serena's won one fourth of the Grand Slams she's played in the last two years. That's MUCH better than Henin.

Career wise she's won 8 out of 31 GSs played. That's actually better than one fourth.

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:21 AM
I would have a hard time believing that two grand slams QF are more important than a grand slam semifinal.
Do people remmember Julie Halard for her three grand slam quarterfinals?
Or remmember Stevenson, Dokic and Kournikova as one time grand slam semifinalists?
LOL! Now I see why Williams' fans have fun with you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You're an idiot, Spencercarlos(....and no, I'm not referring to your disability either).

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:21 AM
[QUOTE=faboozadoo15;11438423]I'm not a Justine fan or a VeenReenababy fan, I guess you could say.

I guess you want to say you are a "tennis fan" which is the code word for Williams hater and will defend anyone against them.:lol:

That's ok though because I find them very entertaining when my faves are not playing and I'm frigging bored.;) It would be nice if you would raise the level of discourse though because name calling is such an easy way out. A little brain stimulating bantering doesn't hurt. Are you up for the challenge?

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:26 AM
I thought you'd left the board because of cancer. Seriously, what happened with that?:confused:
Wow you are of a moron than i thought. Instead of answering Nlop´s comment you talk about his disease.. very low.. again not a surprise..

:wavey:

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:30 AM
Wow you are of a moron than i thought. Instead of answering Nlop´s comment you talk about his disease.. very low.. again not a surprise..

:wavey::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh, if only you knew what you were talking about "spinstercarlos" LMAO!!!!!

Since you're nolop's attorney, talk to nolop about what nolop and I discussed.

Back to you, now I see why you're loved by the Williams fans. You're really, really, really, really, not smart. I mean like....really, really, really, really, not smart.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:36 AM
Unless you're just going by GSs played? Serena's won one fourth of the Grand Slams she's played in the last two years. That's MUCH better than Henin.
That's incorrect.

Henin won the '06 and '07 French Open
Serena Williams won the '07 Australian Open (winless in '06 grand slam events)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go back to '05, but it still doesn't help your cause:

Henin won the '05, '06 and '07 French Open
Serena Williams won the '05 and '07 Australian Open

Not good enough? I'll go back to '04:

Henin won the '04 Australian Open, '05, '06 and '07 French Open
Serena Williams won the '05 and '07 Australian Open (winless in '04 grand slam events)

Still not good enough? I'll go back to '03:

Henin won the '03 US Open, '03, '05, '06 and '07 French Open and '04 Australian Open
Serena Williams won the '03 Australian Open, '03 Wimbledon, '05 and '07 Australian Open

The last time Serena Williams won more grand slam singles events in a calendar year than Henin was 2002.

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:37 AM
LOL! Now I see why Williams' fans have fun with you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You're an idiot, Spencercarlos(....and no, I'm not referring to your disability either).

The entertainment value of the thread just increased as spencercarlos enters to defend Justine's honor.:lol:

I'm willing to hang around a little longer for a few more laughs!:lol:

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:38 AM
The entertainment value of the thread just increased as spencercarlos enters to defend Justine's honor.:lol:

I'm willing to hang around a little longer for a few more laughs!:lol:LOL! I know, right....LOL!!!!!

I started :bounce: when I saw his post.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:46 AM
The entertainment value of the thread just increased as spencercarlos enters to defend Justine's honor.:lol:

I'm willing to hang around a little longer for a few more laughs!:lol:
Is that code for "I'm going to troll this thread a little while longer and invite likeminded others to do the same?"

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:52 AM
Is that code for "I'm going to troll this thread a little while longer and invite likeminded others to do the same?"

My statement is quite self explanatory. I don't need code as I'm not afraid to speak my mind any time, anywhere, to anyone.:wavey:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:53 AM
That's incorrect.

Henin won the '06 and '07 French Open
Serena Williams won the '07 Australian Open (winless in '06 grand slam events)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go back to '05, but it still doesn't help your cause:

Henin won the '05, '06 and '07 French Open
Serena Williams won the '05 and '07 Australian Open

Not good enough? I'll go back to '04:

Henin won the '04 Australian Open, '05, '06 and '07 French Open
Serena Williams won the '05 and '07 Australian Open (winless in '04 grand slam events)

Still not good enough? I'll go back to '03:

Henin won the '03 US Open, '03, '05, '06 and '07 French Open and '04 Australian Open
Serena Williams won the '03 Australian Open, '03 Wimbledon, '05 and '07 Australian Open

The last time Serena Williams won more grand slam singles events in a calendar year than Henin was 2002.
Great post!
Show the delusionals how their faves are only dominating in their deluded and fantasmal world. :lol:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 12:55 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh, if only you knew what you were talking about "spinstercarlos" LMAO!!!!!

Since you're nolop's attorney, talk to nolop about what nolop and I discussed.

Back to you, now I see why you're loved by the Williams fans. You're really, really, really, really, not smart. I mean like....really, really, really, really, not smart.
Don´t be stupid if you really wanted to know how Nolop really is just PM, but don´t bring his disease like asking him why is he here instead of taking care of it.. :rolleyes: You are worse than i thought...

Rabid, delusional about your faves, and low as a person :lol:

:wavey:

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:00 AM
Great post!
Show the delusionals how their faves are only dominating in their deluded and fantasmal world. :lol:

Aren't you the one who said Henin did better than Serena at slams this year because Henin decided not to play one?

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:02 AM
Aren't you the one who said Henin did better than Serena at slams this year because Henin decided not to play one?OMG!!!!! I'm holding my side laughing!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:02 AM
Great post!
Show the delusionals how their faves are only dominating in their deluded and fantasmal world. :lol:

The record books are presently showing:

Serena Williams - 2007 AO Champion (8 majors total):worship:
Venus Williams - 2007 Wimbledon Champion (6 majors total):worship:

The time span in which these were aquired is totally irrelevant. Stick to the present here and now.

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:03 AM
Don´t be stupid if you really wanted to know how Nolop really is just PM, but don´t bring his disease like asking him why is he here instead of taking care of it.. :rolleyes: You are worse than i thought...

Rabid, delusional about your faves, and low as a person :lol:

:wavey::lol: "spinstercarlos" calling someone stupid....LOL!!!!!

This thread is getting good.

Craigy
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:06 AM
:yawn: Well this turned into another mess. :weirdo: :gm:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:10 AM
Yes, she was absent from the AO. That's worse than losing in the first round, results wise.

Unless you're just going by GSs played? Serena's won one fourth of the Grand Slams she's played in the last two years. That's MUCH better than Henin.

Career wise she's won 8 out of 31 GSs played. That's actually better than one fourth.
Still most of you (Venus and Williams fans) seem to obey the 2001 year comment. :rolleyes:

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:12 AM
Still most of you (Venus and Williams fans) seem to obey the 2001 year comment. :rolleyes:

I'm not a Venus Williams fan. And I've never even remarked on that debate before.

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:13 AM
[QUOTE=Pureracket;11439276
This thread is getting good.[/QUOTE]

I'm having lots of fun too!:lol: They are each getting bitchslapped so hard that they have to introduce "tag".:lol:

Forehand_Volley
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:17 AM
Great post!
Show the delusionals how their faves are only dominating in their deluded and fantasmal world. :lol:
Both women have endured injury, illness and loss since 2003. Serena's injuries have played a huge role in her downward spiral since 2003. Comparatively in the grand slam events, Henin has demonstrated better results:

Wins:

Henin (6)
S. Williams (4)

Finals:

Henin (9)
S. Williams (5)

To go further, since 2003, Henin consistently has not only had a better grand slam result, but also in other areas:

Weeks at Number One:

Henin (78)
Williams (35)

Total Singles Tournament Wins:

Henin (28)
Williams (9)

Total Singles Tournament Finals:

Henin (37)
Williams (13)

Head-to-Head:

Henin 4-2

Both women are great champions, but Henin seems to have gotten the best of Serena over the past five years. It makes for a great rivalry, and explains why Henin was 2-0 against Serena in the grand slam events this year, is on a path to be year-end number one for the third time, and continues to add to her weeks at number one.

Serena has had a rough few years. I wonder what it will take for her to turn this downward spiral around? And even though Henin dominates Serena statistically in this five year period, she still shows her respect for Serena as a competitor by her own admission in the importance of the Wimbledon quarterfinal win. Henin's openness should be embraced as something positive, for both fan bases.

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:21 AM
Both women have endured injury, illness and loss since 2003. Serena's injuries have played a huge role in her downward spiral since 2003. Comparatively in the grand slam events, Henin has demonstrated better results:

Wins:

Henin (6)
S. Williams (4)

Finals:

Henin (9)
S. Williams (5)

To go further, since 2003, Henin consistently has not only had a better grand slam result, but also in other areas:

Weeks at Number One:

Henin (78)
Williams (35)

Total Singles Tournament Wins:

Henin (28)
Williams (9)

Total Singles Tournament Finals:

Henin (37)
Williams (13)Yeah, Justine's a much better player than Serena is. I'm just confused what we should be counting and the criteria for the validation, though. Certainly, we're not going to include the h2h or the number of Slams. Then again, those two criteria don't really matter much when assessing who the better player is do they?

mykarma
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:22 AM
It seems a little deeper. You called them dumbasses. It's just that I've never seen you defend Venus and Serena so vehemently. You're not even an Henin fan? LOL!
She also said for Serena to get her thumb out of her ass. Looks like someone's having a bad day. :eek:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:28 AM
Aren't you the one who said Henin did better than Serena at slams this year because Henin decided not to play one?
No i said that 1 GS Semifinal > 2 GS Quarterfinals..... in the same way i would rate 1 GS QF > 2 GS 4th rounds... and so on.

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:31 AM
No i said that 1 GS Semifinal > 2 GS Quarterfinals..... in the same way i would rate 1 GS QF > 2 GS 4th rounds... and so on.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keep posting

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:32 AM
Yes, she was absent from the AO. That's worse than losing in the first round, results wise.

Unless you're just going by GSs played? Serena's won one fourth of the Grand Slams she's played in the last two years. That's MUCH better than Henin.

Career wise she's won 8 out of 31 GSs played. That's actually better than one fourth.
Worse by what 2 pts?

I think Venus (and any great player) would rather have a DNP at the Australian Open 2006 than having a shame first round loss worth of 2 ranking points for instance :lol:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:34 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keep posting
Yes you have no words, don´t worry i expect something stupid comments from you in a minute.

:wavey:

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:36 AM
No i said that 1 GS Semifinal > 2 GS Quarterfinals...

Serena:

AO Champion
FO Quarterfinalist
Wimbledon Quarterfinalist


Henins:
Didn't play AO
FO Champion
Wimbledon Semifinalist


Henin's literally gotten worst than a first round loss in a GS this year, and you're arguing that since Henin progressed one round further in one of the slams, that this somehow twice as important as two quarterfinals?

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:39 AM
Yeah, Justine's a much better player than Serena is. I'm just confused what we should be counting and the criteria for the validation, though. Certainly, we're not going to include the h2h or the number of Slams. Then again, those two criteria don't really matter much when assessing who the better player is do they?

Hey Pure, obviously you didn't get the memo! You are not a "tennis fan" only a Williams' fan so your tennis knowledge is very limited or non existent therefore you are unable to discerne these hidden top secret criteria.

Anyway I don't know about you but as a "tennis illiterate" I'll take my chances and go with #of majors and h2h head into consideration until I garner more information from the "experts". Call me a dumbass but I'm also including 2007 majors also.:lol:

venusallday
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:40 AM
Yeah exactly. And Serena will continue to be ranked outside of the top 4 and fail to penetrate any of the last three slams of the year, while Justine will continue to be a major force, worrying about Serena, while Serena deludes herself that she's Queen.

So, objectively, I think Justine's attitude is doing her just fine. Serena, 10lbs overweight and nowhere near as agile as she once was, might want to look at hers. Or she might not, just as she didn't in either of the last two years when she won a total of one slam.

No person in their right mind doubts that Serena at her highest level is the pinnacle of the sport. But how often does she produce? Serena can talk the talk, but walking the walk does not just mean red carpets.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Hey Pure, obviously you didn't get the memo! You are not a "tennis fan" only a Williams' fan so your tennis knowledge is very limited or non existent therefore you are unable to discerne these hidden top secret criteria.

Anyway I don't know about you but as a "tennis illiterate" I'll take my chances and go with #of majors and h2h head into consideration until I garner more information from the "experts". Call me a dumbass but I'm also including 2007 majors also.:lol:LOL!!!!! Yeah, let's count the 2007 majors....just for fun.

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:41 AM
The record books are presently showing:

Serena Williams - 2007 AO Champion (8 majors total):worship:
Venus Williams - 2007 Wimbledon Champion (6 majors total):worship:

The time span in which these were aquired is totally irrelevant. Stick to the present here and now.
Yes next up is the best reasoning to show say Venus and Serena better than Henin:
Williams 2 GS in 2007 and Henin GS 1...

:wavey:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:43 AM
Serena:

AO Champion
FO Quarterfinalist
Wimbledon Quarterfinalist


Henins:
Didn't play AO
FO Champion
Wimbledon Semifinalist


Henin's literally gotten worst than a first round loss in a GS this year, and you're arguing that since Henin progressed one round further in one of the slams, that this somehow twice as important as two quarterfinals?
I never said twice as important, i just said that reaching a grand slam semifinal is more important than reaching 2 grand slam quarterfinals. And i add to the reasons the 2-0 in meetings for Henin against Serena at grand slam play for the year.

Forehand_Volley
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:45 AM
Yeah, Justine's a much better player than Serena is. I'm just confused what we should be counting and the criteria for the validation, though. Certainly, we're not going to include the h2h or the number of Slams. Then again, those two criteria don't really matter much when assessing who the better player is do they?
I was attempting to validate three points:

1. Serena's decline since her knee injury of 2003, while giving her the benefit of the entire 2003 season. That's FIVE years.

2. Henin leads their H2H just prior and since Serena's knee injury took her out for eight months.

3. Since Serena's knee injury, Henin has been the better player over a period of five years in almost every category.

There's really no good way to tell Henin or Serena's fans that cause-effect relationships might or might not have a bearing on their personal rivalry since Serena's injury and Henin's initial surge in 2003. Both have endured illness and injury during this period. Judge it as you may.

But to totally disregard Henin's accomplishments or to forget the chronic injuries of Serena during this five year period is being irrational. I like to look at their rivalry from different perspectives.

Pureracket
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:47 AM
I was attempting to validate three points:

1. Serena's decline since her knee injury of 2003, while giving her the benefit of the entire 2003 season. That's FIVE years.

2. Henin leads their H2H just prior and since Serena's knee injury took her out for eight months.

3. Since Serena's knee injury, Henin has been the better player over a period of five years in almost every category.

There's really no good way to tell Henin or Serena's fans that cause-effect relationships might or might not have a bearing on their personal rivalry since Serena's injury and Henin's initial surge in 2003. Both have endured illness and injury during this period. Judge it as you may.

But to totally disregard Henin's accomplishments or to forget the chronic injuries of Serena during this five year period is being irrational.Ok...so we're dealing with the 5 year model as criteria, then, right? Why did history start with the knee injury?

vejh
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Oh geez This stoopid argument about who's the better player. Oh geez. Can this go to a William's thread? Please? What does this have to do with the quote of Justine?

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:53 AM
I never said twice as important, i just said that reaching a grand slam semifinal is more important than reaching 2 grand slam quarterfinals. And i add to the reasons the 2-0 in meetings for Henin against Serena at grand slam play for the year.

Is a 3rd round apperance better than two 2nd round appearances?

Is a 4th round better than two 3rd rounds?

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:56 AM
Is a 3rd round apperance better than two 2nd round appearances?

Is a 4th round better than two 3rd rounds?
Yes the same as being a grand slam champion being better than a 2 grand slam finalist...

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 01:58 AM
I think Venus (and any great player) would rather have a DNP at the Australian Open 2006 than having a shame first round loss worth of 2 ranking points for instance :lol:

I'm sure Justine felt the same way after her 1st rs defeat at Wimbledon being the favorite to win the championships.:rolleyes:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:00 AM
Ok...so we're dealing with the 5 year model as criteria, then, right? Why did history start with the knee injury?
Probably because those 5 years have been the recent times? :lol:

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:01 AM
I'm sure Justine felt the same way after her 1st rs defeat at Wimbledon being the favorite to win the championships.:rolleyes:
Yes im sure Venus regrets her shameful 2006 AOpen, her second first round exit in a grand slam.. not surprising though because she has done that even in her peak year :lol: (2001)..

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:03 AM
Yes the same as being a grand slam champion being better than a 2 grand slam finalist...

Your logic is flawed.


At some point, quarterfinal appaerance will outweigh a single semifinal.

If a player reached the quarters of every slam they played for ten years straight, this is better than a single semifinal.

Yet no one would argue that ten years worth of finals outweigh a grand slam win.

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:21 AM
Yes im sure Venus regrets her shameful 2006 AOpen, her second first round exit in a grand slam.. not surprising though because she has done that even in her peak year :lol: (2001)..

All is forgotten as she hoisted the 2007 Venus Rosewater Dish while Justine nursed her ass-kicking form Marion.:lol:

Forehand_Volley
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:36 AM
Ok...so we're dealing with the 5 year model as criteria, then, right? Why did history start with the knee injury?
For the most part, I've attempted to skirt the issue of who is better, Henin or Serena.

I tried giving Serena the benefit of the doubt regarding her downward spiral since the first major injury of her career.

At the same time, I used a five year period since Henin's first major win to support Henin's surgance as being valid.

Some Serena fans will say that a knee injury five years ago was to Henin's benefit for five years. Some Henin fans will say that five years is too long a period of injury for the injury excuse and that Henin has surplanted herself as the better player.

My personal opinion is a mix of both. Serena isn't the player today she was in early 2003 and Justine has developed into a much better player today than she was in 2003. Serena is still plagued by injury today as Henin's career continues to flourish. Not much has changed in five years, other than Henin's inaugural win against Serena on grass.

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:38 AM
Your logic is flawed.


At some point, quarterfinal appaerance will outweigh a single semifinal.

If a player reached the quarters of every slam they played for ten years straight, this is better than a single semifinal.

Yet no one would argue that ten years worth of finals outweigh a grand slam win.
I just said 1 GS semfinal > 2 GS Quarterfinals..
Never admited 1 GS Semifinal > 4 GS QF´s.

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:41 AM
All is forgotten as she hoisted the 2007 Venus Rosewater Dish while Justine nursed her ass-kicking form Marion.:lol:
Yes the same way and even better when Henin ass kicked Jankovic (Venus´s conqueror) and dear sister Serena on her way to winning Roland Garros 2007 for the second straight year and second straight year without dropping a set. Yes that is domination.
:wavey:

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:43 AM
I just said 1 GS semfinal > 2 GS Quarterfinals..
Never admited 1 GS Semifinal > 4 GS QF´s.

I would take two quarterfinals over a semifinal and a first round loss. But maybe that's just me.

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:46 AM
I would take two quarterfinals over a semifinal and a first round loss. But maybe that's just me.
Debatible as i said many more (tons of people) would take 1 GS win over 2 GS finals.. and it´s exactly the same situation.

I know the 2 GS finals are worth more money and more GS ranking points but historically is more trascendent having one round further in a slam.

Donny
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:59 AM
Debatible as i said many more (tons of people) would take 1 GS win over 2 GS finals.. and it´s exactly the same situation.

I know the 2 GS finals are worth more money and more GS ranking points but historically is more trascendent having one round further in a slam.

....That's not the same at all. A finalist and a champion isn't the same as a semifinalist and a finalist. One wins the entire thing, the other doesn't.


One just needs to use common sense to see that. What wuould rather have, ten semifinal apperances, or one final?

Then ask yourself, what would you rather have: ten finals apperance, or one GS win?

spencercarlos
Aug 18th, 2007, 03:11 AM
....That's not the same at all. A finalist and a champion isn't the same as a semifinalist and a finalist. One wins the entire thing, the other doesn't.


One just needs to use common sense to see that. What wuould rather have, ten semifinal apperances, or one final?

Then ask yourself, what would you rather have: ten finals apperance, or one GS win?
Again i said 1 SF > 2 GS Q.. (not 1 SF > 10 QF)

Anna Kournikova´s GS resume is considered better than than Julie Halard for instance but we know Anna has 1 SF and Julie has 3 GS Quarterfinals. Which one is better?

Are Gaby´s 15 SF semifinals > Pierce 3 GS finals? you should have a case there.

Realtennis
Aug 18th, 2007, 03:54 AM
[QUOTE]

Your post is an indication that you are losing the argument badly.:lol: If all that you stated above is all true please explain to me what is egregious about that? From your wealth of tennis knowledge please enlighten me as to the intricacies that should qualify me to comment on tennis and be a fan of the sisters.:rolleyes:

Also what would be wrong with me if after the sisters retire my interest in tennis also wanes. Isn't that a natural thing with other fan bases such as Graf, Chris, Martina etc. therefore why the exception for the sisters? Enlighten us all!:(
Not worthy of any further responses from me..................the rest of the board I'm sure understands why!

Realtennis
Aug 18th, 2007, 03:57 AM
That may be true but it's not worth a heel of beans if you're playing the #1 and you can't use all of your weapons because you're injured. :help:
True.

faboozadoo15
Aug 18th, 2007, 03:59 AM
I don't know how we can be arguing about this....
1 GS SF > 2 GS QF
Historically certainly.

Realtennis
Aug 18th, 2007, 04:05 AM
It seems a little deeper. You called them dumbasses. It's just that I've never seen you defend Venus and Serena so vehemently. You're not even an Henin fan? LOL!
Well they ARE dumbasses!

Realtennis
Aug 18th, 2007, 04:13 AM
Both women have endured injury, illness and loss since 2003. Serena's injuries have played a huge role in her downward spiral since 2003. Comparatively in the grand slam events, Henin has demonstrated better results:

Wins:

Henin (6)
S. Williams (4)

Finals:

Henin (9)
S. Williams (5)

To go further, since 2003, Henin consistently has not only had a better grand slam result, but also in other areas:

Weeks at Number One:

Henin (78)
Williams (35)

Total Singles Tournament Wins:

Henin (28)
Williams (9)

Total Singles Tournament Finals:

Henin (37)
Williams (13)

Head-to-Head:

Henin 4-2

Both women are great champions, but Henin seems to have gotten the best of Serena over the past five years. It makes for a great rivalry, and explains why Henin was 2-0 against Serena in the grand slam events this year, is on a path to be year-end number one for the third time, and continues to add to her weeks at number one.

Serena has had a rough few years. I wonder what it will take for her to turn this downward spiral around? And even though Henin dominates Serena statistically in this five year period, she still shows her respect for Serena as a competitor by her own admission in the importance of the Wimbledon quarterfinal win. Henin's openness should be embraced as something positive, for both fan bases.
What a wonderful, mature, thoughtful and wise post!
Thank You :)

Mightymirza
Aug 18th, 2007, 05:59 AM
I m sure it did :shrug: How many players have defeated Serena at wimbledon and went on doing well?? :shrug: I cant think of anyone! It definately takes a lot of energy!

Sam L
Aug 18th, 2007, 06:05 AM
So that's why she lost at Wimbledon.

Calypso
Aug 18th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Justine respects Serena. I don't know what was wrong with her comment?
Yes, even though Serena was injured, she gave Justine one tough match.

Petersmiler
Aug 18th, 2007, 10:59 AM
I'm having lots of fun too!:lol: They are each getting bitchslapped so hard that they have to introduce "tag".:lol:


You're joking right? Slapping each other on the back and then saying this?

Petersmiler
Aug 18th, 2007, 11:07 AM
Another thread ruined by the same idiots.

Martian KC
Aug 18th, 2007, 02:45 PM
Interesting, we fluctuate from arrogant to insecure.:rolleyes: What would be the reason for a Williams fan to be insecure? Let me remind you that it was a Williams who eventually held the Venus Rosewater Dish easily defeating Marion who defeated Justine thefore your logic is very flawed.

If Justine didn't have enough left to defeat Marion I doubt she would have feared better against Venus who has a better serve and movement. I have no doubt the results would have been the same to make it 9-1 bitchslapping.:lol:

Anyway the facts are: Williams - 2 majors + Miami:bounce:
Justine - 1 major

We are more concerned about injuries than Justine.:devil:


Yes, you show how secure you are as fans by comparing slam results of both players to Justine's. And head to heads................Yeah, you're definitely proving me wrong here.