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View Full Version : Elena is free falling the same way Myskina did.


MisterMan
Aug 15th, 2007, 05:58 PM
I hope it's not true, but it looks like Elena won't come out of this current form. She used to win these matches easily, and used to come back fiercely in tight third sets.
We may have seen her best a few years ago.

I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I fear that would be your wishful thinking.

Sad, 'cause she's a sweet girl.

Viktymise
Aug 15th, 2007, 05:59 PM
When the hell did lena lose aroud 6 straight 1st round matches? :o

UDACHi
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:02 PM
sure, she's not a top five player anymore, but please don't compare her to the joke of a player that myskina has become. :o
her results are that of a solid top 15 player right now. she has never played well in canada and schiavone is in form right now. this isn't a loss that i am going to lose sleep over.
this is only the second time elena has lost in her opening match of a tournament all year. the other time was when she retired against likhovtseva.
she will come back strong next week.

GoDominique
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:04 PM
I wouldn't compare it to Myskina's case. But I agree that both are dooooone.

Elena is just going through the motions by now. Her heart is not in the sport anymore. She shows no effort to improve her weaknesses. That's not going to cut it.
She will keep playing for a while because it's easy money, but her days as a top-player and title contender are gone.

MisterMan
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:06 PM
Time will tell. She was always a sure fire contender for the QF or better, now we all hold our breath in the early rounds.

mr_burns
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:08 PM
there was no fire in the 3rd....wasn't the elena I used to know

Her footwork seemed to get worse

UDACHi
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:08 PM
Time will tell. She was always a sure fire contender for the QF or better, now we all hold our breath in the early rounds.

are you serious? she lost in the first round like 10 times in 2004. her results have improved immensely in consistency over the past few years. do you even follow her or no?

ce
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:09 PM
hope not

Kworb
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:09 PM
Elena has never won matches easily.. at least not many consecutively.. but instead of barely winning, she's barely losing :(

These were typical Elena draws

Zurich Tier I Hard Oct 24 2004
1 Dementieva(3) bye
2 Dementieva(3) - Elena Bovina 7-5 3-6 6-0
QF Dementieva(3) - Ai Sugiyama(9) 6-1 5-7 7-5
SF Maria Sharapova(4) - Dementieva(3) 4-6 6-2 6-3

Indian Wells Tier I Hard Mar 20 2005
1 Dementieva(4) bye
2 Dementieva(4) - Abigail Spears 6-2 7-65
3 Dementieva(4) - Severine Beltrame 5-7 6-3 7-65
4 Dementieva(4) - Tatiana Golovin(14) 2-6 6-4 6-4
QF Dementieva(4) - Svetlana Kuznetsova(5) 3-6 6-3 7-5
SF Kim Clijsters - Dementieva(4) 6-4 6-2

US Open Hard Sep 11 2005
1 Dementieva(6) - Lucie Safarova 7-5 6-3
2 Dementieva(6) - Mariana Diaz-Oliva 7-5 6-1
3 Dementieva(6) - Anna Chakvetadze(29) 6-1 4-6 7-65
4 Dementieva(6) - Patty Schnyder(11) 6-4 6-3
QF Dementieva(6) - Lindsay Davenport(2) 6-1 3-6 7-66
SF Mary Pierce(12) - Dementieva(6) 3-6 6-2 6-2

goldenlox
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Lena lost in the first round in Canada to Dulko in 2004, then made the USO final.
She worked hard in California, and sometimes this tournament is not her priority.

itzhak
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:17 PM
Every time she is losing this thread is coming....This is Lena, she have this kind of days, like every player. She had good 2 tournaments and perhaps her energy left her today, so what?!

Dementinator
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:23 PM
its always the same, other top players lose silly matches and nothing is said, Lena does it and in come the twats etc, well its true today was dissapointing but its her first true early loss all year and it WAS to a decent enough player..I just cant understand why everytime Lena loses assholes have to come from under their rocks and proclaim utter doom, I expect it from the Likes of GoDom as they ARE an asshole and an utter twat, but why all the others?

Anyhow, today was a mess and Lena was crap, yes someday soon she will retire and then I guess someone else can get all the shit after a loss, in the meantime shes still here so put up or fuck up, shes still superior to any pointless wanker that frequents this board, that includes me too of course...while we are all sitting behind our computers typing shit and achieveing the square root of fuck all, shes the one with millions of $$ in the bank..

MisterMan
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:29 PM
uh, Captain, your ship is sunk.

You can swear and call us all the names in your childish book of insults, but it's still sunk. If she reaches the QF of the Open I will publicly kiss your arse.

GoDominique
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:30 PM
shes the one with millions of $$ in the bank..
That's the right spirit! Fuck GS titles and improving your game if you can still earn $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ while being lazy! :worship:

Dementinator
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:38 PM
absloutely!

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:55 PM
Expected thread after a bad loss :shrug:

In the last 2 weeks the commentary was ... She is returning to her usual level and now after a bad loss she is done

It´s the way like General Messages works

saint2
Aug 15th, 2007, 06:58 PM
Two facts:

1. Shes only 25 now...25 years old player cant be done...
2. Fran is on fire now, she plays good...

But she sucks now and that is fact too...She sucks almost all this year...If she will make 4st round at USO I will be VERY happy...

fammmmedspin
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:24 PM
There is a problem for some reason with practically all the 25-27 year olds. The Wlliams sisters have a few good weeks, Patty has good odd few months. Elsewhere its full retreat which is why we ahve youngsters in the top 5. Nastya we at least know about the injuries and you can imagine her calculation of whether to play again too - she's done half of what she wants to do (GS win, Fed Cup, Moscow, Number 2) and the other half (Olympics. number 1) is difficult particulatly if her ranking can't recover in time for the 2008 Olympics. Do we know at all why Elena isn't at her best ? She has more goals to reach and the opposition isn't a s good as it was in 2004 - she would for instance probably beat Anna C but not Nastya and Jelena isn't a Jennifer or a Kim.

This one would depend on what the match looked like. Fran has been in her own slump with injury and perhaps the aftermath of winning the Fed Cup but a fit Fran on her her best 2005-2006 form can beat almost anyone . With a bit of confidence too after winning the Fed Cup SF and a title the top 15 are very much in danger.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:26 PM
I hope it's not true, but it looks like Elena won't come out of this current form. She used to win these matches easily, and used to come back fiercely in tight third sets.
We may have seen her best a few years ago.


Nothing similar. Absolutely nothing.
Myskina reached Istanbul final, RG 4r round, Eastbourne final, Wimbledon QF and then just disappeared.
Lena may lose first round matches here and there (like she used to) but no way she will lose seven straight matches to the likes of Dulko, Azarenka and Bacsinszky. Current Dementieva's level is unapproachable for post-Wimbledon Myskina as Lena is still a solid Top-20 player.

frenchie
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Well their case is no way the same!

Myskina had to deal with personnal problems and injuries since 2005. Moreover she's not interested in tennis anymore!

Bruno71
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:34 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/customavatars/avatar917_120.gif

BuTtErFrEnA
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:48 PM
I hope it's not true, but it looks like Elena won't come out of this current form. She used to win these matches easily, and used to come back fiercely in tight third sets.
We may have seen her best a few years ago.

I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I fear that would be your wishful thinking.

Sad, 'cause she's a sweet girl.

:bs:

BuTtErFrEnA
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:49 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/customavatars/avatar917_120.gif

Agreed LOL

jonny84
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:53 PM
She's not free falling. And besides, Myskina is injured and hasnt played all year (bar her French Open showing). Dementieva is not injured - she just had a tough loss against a substantial player.

DA FOREHAND
Aug 15th, 2007, 07:56 PM
It's too much work when your serve is constantly under pressure, she has to be mentally tired, and should take a break

Lunaris
Aug 15th, 2007, 08:02 PM
Well, let's face it. This thread had to be posted.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 15th, 2007, 08:02 PM
It's too much work when your serve is constantly under pressure, she has to be mentally tired, and should take a break

She should hire a real coach. Why she has never done it is beyond my understanding...

Shepster
Aug 15th, 2007, 08:31 PM
Hang on, she made the quarters last week and the semis the week before how the hell is she free falling? Is her ranking going down? Yes. Is that because she's playing *badly* at the moment? No, she's 7-3 post-Wimbledon.

I heard a commentator today on Eurosport saying she's in serious danger of dropping out of the top 20, is he on drugs? She's 500 points ahead of 20th place...

miffedmax
Aug 15th, 2007, 08:52 PM
She's fallen 8 places after missing two of the biggest points tournaments of the year and going through a period of recovering from an injury.

Hardly a freefall. Yes, she needs a coach. No, she doesn't have a lot of time left to get serious and have a shot at finally capturing a major.

But this is like the 10th fucking thread on this topic since she busted her ribs. I mean, really, I know I'm probably way to obssessive a tennis fan and Lena fan, but man, there are some people around here in really desperate need of a life.

virex
Aug 15th, 2007, 09:16 PM
but elena is sexier!

Willam
Aug 15th, 2007, 09:18 PM
this thread -> :smash:

Leo_DFP
Aug 15th, 2007, 09:58 PM
Nothing but Lena :sad: :sad:

goldlion
Aug 15th, 2007, 10:54 PM
I doubt if she has the ability to reach her second peak again if she continues working with her mum.

She needs a reach coach if she wants a breakthrough right now.

She's 25 now!!! And there's not much time left for a tennis player.

Be wise Elena. Your mum doesn't demonstrate the ability to be a coach.

doujyr
Aug 15th, 2007, 10:55 PM
first let me say i'm a huge fan of hers. it was the manner of today's loss that was very disheartening, losing 6 straight games in the 3rd set, and losing them tamely, at the point of a match where you usually expect her to be coming on strong. maybe she's got the cold that several of the players have. i hope so, otherwise this really was an alarming loss.

goldlion
Aug 15th, 2007, 10:56 PM
I heard a commentator today on Eurosport saying she's in serious danger of dropping out of the top 20, is he on drugs? She's 500 points ahead of 20th place...

Apparently, the commentator doesn't pay attention to the WTA ranking or even doesn't know how the ranking works. He should have clicked 'How the ranking works?' before giving out his nasty 'prediction'.

Beny
Aug 15th, 2007, 10:57 PM
She has a not very serious injury :o no free fall ;)

kinglear
Aug 20th, 2007, 02:53 PM
I hope it's not true, but it looks like Elena won't come out of this current form. She used to win these matches easily, and used to come back fiercely in tight third sets.
We may have seen her best a few years ago.

I'm sure many of you will disagree, but I fear that would be your wishful thinking.

Sad, 'cause she's a sweet girl.

Lena has had plenty of bad years, so it's no surprise. It's just that she's been a bit more consistent for the past few years. She'll come back, her best years aren't gone. There's no use for fans like myself to try to prove that Lena's best form isn't gone, because only SHE can prove it. She has to win the tough matches...when she does that, she'll prove herself. She still makes for a damn entertaining match whenever she plays, usually. :)

miffedmax
Aug 20th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Isn't she going from 17 to 15 this week.

Not exactly a freefall if you're moving up.

selyoink
Aug 20th, 2007, 05:43 PM
Isn't she going from 17 to 15 this week.

Not exactly a freefall if you're moving up.

How dare you use logic! :mad:

MisterMan
Aug 20th, 2007, 05:58 PM
Isn't she going from 17 to 15 this week.

Not exactly a freefall if you're moving up.

Yet you call her a "disappointment". :confused:

miffedmax
Aug 20th, 2007, 06:36 PM
0-15 made me my lovely avi. I use it out of respect for his creativity and the sheer evil of his humor. That, and it appeals to my sense of irony.

In reality, I am a huge Lena fan and will always support her, no matter where she ranks.

Danči Dementia
Aug 20th, 2007, 07:32 PM
I doubt if she has the ability to reach her second peak again if she continues working with her mum.

She needs a reach coach if she wants a breakthrough right now.

She's 25 now!!! And there's not much time left for a tennis player.

Be wise Elena. Your mum doesn't demonstrate the ability to be a coach.

I agree 10000000000000% with you.

SHE NEEDS A COACH..............I don't understand why she doesn't hire a REAL coach....she has the money to pay and her mon can still travel with her......doesn't she sees what the hell is wrong with her game????

She makes me so mad sometimes but I love her......with or without a coach.

oceandrive
Aug 20th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Elena never had a long layoff and all that constant playing seems to have taken a toll on her mentally.Her peak year was 2004 and since she lost to Mary at the USA OPEN she never recovered.

LudwigDvorak
Aug 20th, 2007, 08:13 PM
Oceandrive's post is bullshit. She played some of her best tennis ever in the fall of 2005 and beginning of 2006. How she played from Tokyo->Indian Wells was fabulous.

It's been since I've been worried, but she's played sporadically well since then.

I'm to the point where I only REALLY care about her results in grand slams, although I do still want her to win most of her matches and stuff.

If Elena's falling, I'm going down with her.

saint2
Aug 20th, 2007, 08:17 PM
If Elena's falling, I'm going down with her.


And thats TRUE FAN attitude...:worship: Fully agreed :cool:

darice
Aug 21st, 2007, 11:20 AM
Elena is just going through the motions by now. Her heart is not in the sport anymore. She shows no effort to improve her weaknesses. That's not going to cut it.
She will keep playing for a while because it's easy money, but her days as a top-player and title contender are gone.

i hate to say it you guys but i totally agree with that! it's too bad cause lena is a such a fierce competitor. :sad:

goldenlox
Aug 21st, 2007, 12:02 PM
Dementieva's victory was the kind of match she needed at the Pilot Pen, where she has had tremendous success, reaching the quarterfinals the past two years and the semifinals the two years before that.

"I just like to play here," said Dementieva, a winner of seven career titles, including one at Istanbul this year. "It's a great tournament, great preparation before the U.S. Open [next week]. I hope to play well. I think the competition is going to be tough this year. Every time you have to play your best from the first round - like today, I had a tough three-set match.

"It's all about getting confidence before the big event and playing as many matches as I can here."

Lee-Waters
Aug 21st, 2007, 12:27 PM
Elena WILL NOT end up the same way as Nastya has- the reason some people think she is in a free-fall is because she was in the top ten for a long time- and was quite lucky injury wise- if she hadn't got injured earlier this year and dropped all the points from 06, she would still be in the top 10 IMO. Give her a chance....i just know that she will peak again- :)

Corswandt
Aug 21st, 2007, 01:39 PM
I wouldn't compare it to Myskina's case. But I agree that both are dooooone.

Elena is just going through the motions by now. Her heart is not in the sport anymore. She shows no effort to improve her weaknesses. That's not going to cut it.
She will keep playing for a while because it's easy money, but her days as a top-player and title contender are gone.

Spot on, sadly.

And to add to the obvious lack of motivation there are also signs of burnout. Too many years of hogging.

Maybe Lena D. can still find enough motivation and focus to keep herself in the #10-15 range, since she still has enough game for it. I remember that, throughout the first half of 2006, Myskina and Hantuchova kept themselves in the top 20 without winning two matches in a row. Again, maybe Lena D. can do the same for a while.

marycarillosucks
Aug 21st, 2007, 01:47 PM
Spot on, sadly.

And to add to the obvious lack of motivation there are also signs of burnout. Too many years of hogging.

Maybe Lena D. can still find enough motivation and focus to keep herself in the #10-15 range, since she still has enough game for it. I remember that, throughout the first half of 2006, Myskina and Hantuchova kept themselves in the top 20 without winning two matches in a row. Again, maybe Lena D. can do the same for a while.


Dementieva said as recently as late 2005 that she was sure she would reach the #1 ranking. In your view, has something has changed for her since that pronouncement, or do you think she was simply not sincere when she made that statement? As I reckon, it must be one or the other.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 21st, 2007, 02:05 PM
I remember that, throughout the first half of 2006, Myskina and Hantuchova kept themselves in the top 20 without winning two matches in a row.

:rolleyes:
In the first half of 2006 Myskina reached finals at Istanbul and Eastbourne, semifinals at Tokyo Pan Pacific, quarterfinals at Wimbledon and Miami and 4th round at Australian and French Opens, and Indian Wells. She won at least two matches at 9 of 12 events she played before USO Series. And since in the second half of 2005 she reached QF or better at all tournaments she entered except US Open, this could explain why she kept herself inside Top-15.

miffedmax
Aug 21st, 2007, 03:25 PM
Yes, AnnaK_Forever, but how many forehands vs. how many backhands did she hit in each of those matches? ;)

LudwigDvorak
Aug 21st, 2007, 03:33 PM
Dementieva said as recently as late 2005 that she was sure she would reach the #1 ranking. In your view, has something has changed for her since that pronouncement, or do you think she was simply not sincere when she made that statement? As I reckon, it must be one or the other.

She had just beaten Clijsters (more than likely when she said that quote). She probably felt she could do anything after that.

She's just not consistent enough to be #1. I always thought she deserved a higher ranking of #4, but not that much. #3? #2 if won a grand slam and stayed mostly consistent?

I just want to see her in the top 10 again, which I think is more than possible.

miffedmax
Aug 21st, 2007, 03:56 PM
One Slam for Elena would be a personal sports fan highlight for me.

kinglear
Aug 21st, 2007, 07:47 PM
Contrary to popular belief, I still think Lena is the Agassi to Myskina's Courier. I know Myskina is out because of injuries, but it's Lena's willingness to go for her shots and her heart that lift her to unexpected places. I love Myskina, but I still see big things happening for Lena...call me crazy. :o People say Lena has to make some changes, but I don't think physical changes need to be made, but instead mental changes. A serve can be perfect in practice, but in a match, it's different. Some of us on this board play tennis competitively, and should know that it's not as easy as it looks, especially when under a lot of pressure.

miffedmax
Aug 21st, 2007, 08:25 PM
kinglear, my only issue with your post is that your avi no longer features Lena with bangs.

Matt01
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:45 PM
I love Myskina, but I still see big things happening for Lena...call me crazy. :o

You're crazy :p

kinglear
Aug 22nd, 2007, 04:08 AM
kinglear, my only issue with your post is that your avi no longer features Lena with bangs.


lol :lol: So you like the bangs. I'll have to find a good one, but I like my current avatar because she looks so passionate and forceful. I think she should wear something like that in her matches: a t-shirt and some short-shorts. That's all she really needs. By the way, she should get her bangs back and go old school on us. :)


Originally Posted by kinglear
I love Myskina, but I still see big things happening for Lena...call me crazy.

You're crazy

thank you... :p

LudwigDvorak
Aug 22nd, 2007, 04:18 AM
Career wise, Elena is much more similar to Nalbandian. I would never compare Elena with an eight-time slam champion. :o

But yeah, that's just how Elena's always been. Nalbandian's had tons of peaks and valleys, Elena happens to be in a valley now. And not a very deep one either.

heytennis
Aug 22nd, 2007, 04:50 AM
Career wise, Elena is much more similar to Nalbandian. I would never compare Elena with an eight-time slam champion. :o

But yeah, that's just how Elena's always been. Nalbandian's had tons of peaks and valleys, Elena happens to be in a valley now. And not a very deep one either.

I agree. Everyone knows that Nalbandian and Dementieva have more talent than their ranking shows as well.

Veritas
Aug 22nd, 2007, 05:52 AM
Any predictions regarding Elena should be approached with caution. You can never be sure whether she's done for good or if she'll pull out a fantastic run that no-one was expecting.

That said, she's 25 years OLD, not young. That's seniority in today's tennis.

Getting a new coach won't do much if she's not willing to make some changes. Knowing what to do isn't rocket science. She's well aware of her problems and has had ample time to do something about it.

While there has been improvements, they're relatively minor. Even though there was that shoulder injury which jeopardised her serve, she had at least 5 years to work her way back up.

Plus, it's not just the serve. This year in particular, most of her losses were due to opportunities being blown away. Whether it's due to poor technicality or UFEs, it's clear that she's not doing enough to iron out thoses kinks - those mistakes were not there last year.

I won't say that Elena's done. She's an amazing athlete and is still one of the fittest on tour. And coming back from an injury break probably means she needs a bit more time to settle in. But at the same time, extra work is needed because climbing back up is tougher than staying there.

Corswandt
Aug 22nd, 2007, 01:31 PM
Dementieva said as recently as late 2005 that she was sure she would reach the #1 ranking. In your view, has something has changed for her since that pronouncement, or do you think she was simply not sincere when she made that statement? As I reckon, it must be one or the other.

I think it was her blowout loss to Jankovic at the USO QF last year. She entered the USO, the GS where she always had the best results, as one of the top 4 seeds and as at least an outside favourite for the title, and when she reaches the QF she fails to hold serve even once. That loss finally hammered into her that she was no longer a contender.

And as Ludwig Dvorak reminded, the "#1" remarks were issued after her win over Clijsters in Filderstadt. Clijsters, then at her peak (and her late 2005 peak really was impressive) played at her best or near it, and Lena D. still won. One of Lena's finest matches ever.

Corswandt
Aug 22nd, 2007, 01:44 PM
:rolleyes:
In the first half of 2006 Myskina reached finals at Istanbul and Eastbourne, semifinals at Tokyo Pan Pacific, quarterfinals at Wimbledon and Miami and 4th round at Australian and French Opens, and Indian Wells. She won at least two matches at 9 of 12 events she played before USO Series. And since in the second half of 2005 she reached QF or better at all tournaments she entered except US Open, this could explain why she kept herself inside Top-15.

I'll rephrase:

"[...]throughout the first half of 2006, Myskina and Hantuchova kept themselves in the top 20 while rarely winning more than two matches in a row"

Myskina:

AO - 3 wins
PPO - 2 wins
Dubai - 1 win
Doha - 0 wins
IW - 2 wins
Miami - 3 wins
Warsaw - 0 wins
Rome - 2 wins
Istanbul - 3 wins
RG - 3 wins

Hantuchova:

Auckland - 3 wins
Sydney - 2 wins
AO - 3 wins
PPO - 1 win
Antwerp - 1 win
Dubai - 1 win
Doha - 1 win
Miami - 1 win
Warsaw - 1 win
Berlin - 1 win
Rome - 0 wins
RG - 3 wins

Eastbourne isn't in the first half of the season. RG is in early June, season is January-early November.

marycarillosucks
Aug 22nd, 2007, 01:49 PM
I think it was her blowout loss to Jankovic at the USO QF last year. She entered the USO, the GS where she always had the best results, as one of the top 4 seeds and as at least an outside favourite for the title, and when she reaches the QF she fails to hold serve even once. That loss finally hammered into her that she was no longer a contender.

And as Ludwig Dvorak reminded, the "#1" remarks were issued after her win over Clijsters in Filderstadt. Clijsters, then at her peak (and her late 2005 peak really was impressive) played at her best or near it, and Lena D. still won. One of Lena's finest matches ever.



I just think that you and the goDominique poster and others here are writing Dementieva off way too soon. If she goes on a hot streak at the right time (let's say starting in R16 after struggling to wins in the early rounds) ED can certainly win USO or FO. And especially now, since the Top 10 players are really spotty. You're assuming that just because Dementieva has played crap over a long period, that means she can't go on one of her hot streaks. But Dementieva is too unpredictable to be pigeon-holed like that. Last year against Jankovic was a shocking performance. But every GS is a new tournament starting with a clean slate.

Corswandt
Aug 23rd, 2007, 01:49 PM
I just think that you and the goDominique poster and others here are writing Dementieva off way too soon.

I hope so. I really, really hope so.

If she goes on a hot streak at the right time (let's say starting in R16 after struggling to wins in the early rounds) ED can certainly win USO or FO. And especially now, since the Top 10 players are really spotty. You're assuming that just because Dementieva has played crap over a long period, that means she can't go on one of her hot streaks. But Dementieva is too unpredictable to be pigeon-holed like that. Last year against Jankovic was a shocking performance. But every GS is a new tournament starting with a clean slate.

I don't know. If I was any good at making predictions, I wouldn't have lost nearly all of my vCash at Wimbledon (betting against one of my faves to boot :help: ).

I just look at the way Lena D. has been playing, and I see the same old aimless grinding, but now she isn't even consistent and buries herself in errors from the baseline. Her ground game has steadily deteriorated since her late 2005 peak, and when you don't have a serve, that's fatal. She did get some good results after her dire 2006 clay season, but in retrospect it was a bit of a flash in the pan. She fought like the devil in the late 2006 indoor season to make it to the YEC, always one of her objectives, but now what's left? Winning TIIIs? That may be enough for the likes of Patty Schnyder [cue complaints from angry Pattytards], but I doubt Lena will settle for that.

Corswandt
Aug 23rd, 2007, 02:01 PM
:rolleyes:
In the first half of 2006 Myskina reached finals at Istanbul and Eastbourne, semifinals at Tokyo Pan Pacific, quarterfinals at Wimbledon and Miami and 4th round at Australian and French Opens, and Indian Wells. She won at least two matches at 9 of 12 events she played before USO Series. And since in the second half of 2005 she reached QF or better at all tournaments she entered except US Open, this could explain why she kept herself inside Top-15.

Rephrasing or not, what bothers me about The Self-Appointed Official Keeper of Anastasia Myskina's Legacy quoted above is the way he/she can tells the biggest load of :bs: using only his/her trademark "dry facts".

Say the sample above. Primo, Eastbourne isn't in the "first half of 2006". Secundo, "semifinals at Tokyo Pan Pacific" - said like this, it sounds like a big deal. "Wow, a SF at a TI!", the unwary might think. In fact, that SF translates only to 2 wins, one over Kookie, the other over granny Likhovtseva, hugely overranked throughout most of 2006. Tertio, her apparently successful IW and Miami campaigns ended with Myskina getting flattened by Safina and Sharapova respectively.

It would be much more enlightening to ascertain how may times, during that early 2006 period up until RG, did Myskina lose to players ranked below her (5) and how many times did she beat players ranked above her (you guessed it - none).

marycarillosucks
Aug 23rd, 2007, 02:16 PM
I hope so. I really, really hope so.

I don't know. If I was any good at making predictions, I wouldn't have lost nearly all of my vCash at Wimbledon (betting against one of my faves to boot :help: ).

I just look at the way Lena D. has been playing, and I see the same old aimless grinding, but now she isn't even consistent and buries herself in errors from the baseline. Her ground game has steadily deteriorated since her late 2005 peak, and when you don't have a serve, that's fatal. She did get some good results after her dire 2006 clay season, but in retrospect it was a bit of a flash in the pan. She fought like the devil in the late 2006 indoor season to make it to the YEC, always one of her objectives, but now what's left? Winning TIIIs? That may be enough for the likes of Patty Schnyder [cue complaints from angry Pattytards], but I doubt Lena will settle for that.


Your words in bold type (edit: my bolding function didn't work) are the big reasons to believe Dementieva is going to win a G.S. before she is through. Her hot streaks are by definition a flash in the pan. They happen for no reason and then disappear back into nothing. As for Schnyder, she still has the talent to win a G.S. in the current marketplace, but she lacks that critical intangible that we usually refer to as character. That's a big difference between ED and PS, who are in my viewpoint quite similar players in many facets. Dementieva doesn't lack the character to win a G.S., but of course that is not a guarantee that she'll actually come through and get it done.

LudwigDvorak
Aug 23rd, 2007, 02:22 PM
This situation with her right now at the USO makes me think of something similar--back in 2003 at the USO. I'm sure plenty of people thought Elena could knock off Capriati if she was playing well but it just didn't happen and it was never going to happen.

Elena's "hot streaks" have been relegated to five times since 2000--Amelia Island 03, Miami 04, FO 04, USO 04, and USO 05.

These "hot streaks" most fans speak of that Elena has in her occur very, VERY rarely. Elena will lose in the fourth round of the USO and hopefully get back in the top 10 early next year.

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 23rd, 2007, 03:07 PM
Rephrasing or not, what bothers me about The Self-Appointed Official Keeper of Anastasia Myskina's Legacy quoted above is the way he/she can tells the biggest load of :bs: using only his/her trademark "dry facts".

Say the sample above. Primo, Eastbourne isn't in the "first half of 2006". Secundo, "semifinals at Tokyo Pan Pacific" - said like this, it sounds like a big deal. "Wow, a SF at a TI!", the unwary might think. In fact, that SF translates only to 2 wins, one over Kookie, the other over granny Likhovtseva, hugely overranked throughout most of 2006. Tertio, her apparently successful IW and Miami campaigns ended with Myskina getting flattened by Safina and Sharapova respectively.

It would be much more enlightening to ascertain how may times, during that early 2006 period up until RG, did Myskina lose to players ranked below her (5) and how many times did she beat players ranked above her (you guessed it - none).

1) It was YOU, imbecile, who said Myskina couldn't win two matches in a row in the first half of 2006 which was LIE as she won at least 2 matches at 7 of 10 tournaments she played through to Roland Garros.

2) Player gets ranking points depending on ROUND reached at certain tournament, not on matches won. And sum of ranking points and not win-loss record form player's rank. Points-wise Tokyo Pan Pacific SF was Myskina's third best result in 2006.

3) Since quality points were abolished in 2006 it didn't even matter who Myskina (or any other player) defeated to reach respective tournament's round.

4) Rankings include players results over the last 52 weeks. After RG-2006 Myskina had 19 tournaments played with:
1 title (Tier III)
2 finals (Tier III and IV)
3 semifinals (all Tier I)
5 quarterfinals (GS, 2 Tier I and 2 Tier II)
2 4th round at GS
and 45-18 Tour win-loss record (if it's so important to you).
Myskina had NORMAL/ORDINAR results for Top-15 player. She was far from Top-10 in terms of game's quality but she did belong to Top-15/20 due to her tournaments results. And that's the only thing I was trying to say.

And finally, idioto. I can repeat what I've already said in this thread:

Lena may lose first round matches here and there (like she used to) but no way she will lose seven straight matches to the likes of Dulko, Azarenka and Bacsinszky. Current Dementieva's level is unapproachable for post-Wimbledon Myskina as Lena is still a solid Top-20 player.

goldenlox
Aug 23rd, 2007, 03:42 PM
Lena enjoys the hard work that comes with being a pro tennis player.
If she doesn't have a major injury, she will be around for many more years.

kinglear
Aug 23rd, 2007, 04:26 PM
Your words in bold type (edit: my bolding function didn't work) are the big reasons to believe Dementieva is going to win a G.S. before she is through. Her hot streaks are by definition a flash in the pan. They happen for no reason and then disappear back into nothing. As for Schnyder, she still has the talent to win a G.S. in the current marketplace, but she lacks that critical intangible that we usually refer to as character. That's a big difference between ED and PS, who are in my viewpoint quite similar players in many facets. Dementieva doesn't lack the character to win a G.S., but of course that is not a guarantee that she'll actually come through and get it done.

Wow, your words almost sound poetic, I couldn't have said it better myself. Lena does have an intangible quality about her. Still, there's got to be a reason for all her "hot runs." What was in her mind when she won certain titles and reached Slam finals? There had to be something. But then again, there are bigger questions that still have yet to be answered...like how did the world begin? So I guess a smaller question like the origin of Lena's "hot runs"can be left unanswered. ;)

Corswandt
Aug 27th, 2007, 02:45 PM
1) It was YOU, imbecile, who said Myskina couldn't win two matches in a row in the first half of 2006 which was LIE as she won at least 2 matches at 7 of 10 tournaments she played through to Roland Garros.

Do you need a napkin to clean the foam off your mouth?

So we've gone from skewered, mischievously selected and presented stats to skewered, mischievously selected and presented stats + crass personal insults. A change, but not an improvement.

And what I initially said was a generalization (like saying that in a certain match player X or Y "couldn't hit a FH"; of course she must have hit at least a few successful ones), and like all generalizations, it can't be labelled as true or false ("A LIE!1!!!!!").

I know taking everything at face value is part of your "objectiveness" act, but don't overdo it.

2) Player gets ranking points depending on ROUND reached at certain tournament, not on matches won. And sum of ranking points and not win-loss record form player's rank. Points-wise Tokyo Pan Pacific SF was Myskina's third best result in 2006.

3) Since quality points were abolished in 2006 it didn't even matter who Myskina (or any other player) defeated to reach respective tournament's round.

On the contrary, it means everything. You missed the whole point. This isn't about how many ranking points Myskina or Hantuchova needed to preserve their rankings during this period. It's about what they had to do to get those points (the answer - very little). I was giving an example to show that hogging and consistent mediocrity with no big wins (you can call it The Patty Schnyder Way) may be enough to keep a #10-20 ranking, depending on circumstances.

And finally, idioto. I can repeat what I've already said in this thread:Some stuff about Dementieva and Myskina

This isn't about Lena D. and Nastya. This is about you far too often being a peddler of BS, and not being called on it often enough.

I suggest you stick to the personal insults, because as a spin doctor you still have a lot to learn.

Matt01
Aug 27th, 2007, 03:38 PM
:haha:

AnnaK_4ever
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:19 PM
You missed the whole point.

This isn't about how many ranking points Myskina or Hantuchova needed to preserve their rankings during this period. It's about what they had to do to get those points (the answer - very little).

This isn't about Lena D. and Nastya. This is about you far too often being a peddler of BS, and not being called on it often enough.


Ok, I may be spreading bullshit all around the board but at least I am consistent in doing it :bounce:
while you can't even figure out what this or that is/ins't about.

Looks like callng you an idiot was not an insult after all...

LCS
Aug 27th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Elena will still show the game that brought her all the good results in the past..! You write that down so you won't start anymore stupi threads...;)

GoDominique
Aug 31st, 2007, 09:39 PM
I wouldn't compare it to Myskina's case. But I agree that both are dooooone.

Elena is just going through the motions by now. Her heart is not in the sport anymore. She shows no effort to improve her weaknesses. That's not going to cut it.
She will keep playing for a while because it's easy money, but her days as a top-player and title contender are gone.
I agree.

stickwitju(ju)
Aug 31st, 2007, 10:51 PM
Yep. Dementieva has Tom Petty on lock.

:smash:

MisterMan
Sep 1st, 2007, 01:58 AM
Ahem. Coughcough.

In The Zone
Sep 1st, 2007, 05:31 AM
Another loss early at a slam a la Myskina for Elena. :o Elena, wake up!

DimaDinosaur
Sep 1st, 2007, 05:34 AM
At least Demetnieva is Russian. Whew

gaggleguy
Sep 1st, 2007, 07:18 AM
So I guess a smaller question like the origin of Lena's "hot runs"can be left unanswered. ;)



I'm afraid the only "hot runs" Dementieva has been having lately are of the type brought on by eating bad chicken sandwich...

mm1147
Sep 1st, 2007, 07:34 AM
myskina the worst lone grandslam holder

tennisbear7
Sep 1st, 2007, 08:58 AM
No, she's not.

She has accomplished way more than say, Majoli, and arguably Kuzzie.

And she's won titles, unlike Kournikova.