View Full Version : A Question on Ranking Points.

Jul 8th, 2002, 02:14 PM
I read somewhere that Venus got close to 1100 points for winning Wimby in 2000. The fact that she defeated the #1, #2 and #4 helped in that regard. I believed, if I'm not mistaken that Graf was the last player to defeat #1, #2 AND #3 in a slam.

So here is the question;

What is the maximum number of points that a player could get for winning a slam? And the second part of that question is; who has the record for the most points for a single tournament (obviously, a slam).

I know to win a slam, one must win 7 matches, hence if one were to beat the players ranked 1-7, then that would yield the highest number of quality points. However, is it mathematically possible based on the randomness of the draw for a player to even get that opportunity? And therein lies the crux of the question.

Thoughts anyone?

Jul 8th, 2002, 02:24 PM
Let me answer part of your question.
Quite obviously you cannot beat players ranked 1-7, due to seeding and the draw. you cannot have players ranked from 1-7 in the same half of the draw so it is impossible (0%) to beat ALL the players ranked 1-7!
SO it is impossible for a player to get that opportunity, even if you are unseeded.

Brian Stewart
Jul 8th, 2002, 06:19 PM
Well, for the sake of this experiment, we'll assume a normalized draw. (There have been cases in the past where the #3 seed was the #2 player in the rankings when the tournament was held, but we'll assume that isn't so.) So we have seeds 1-5 matching their rankings, players seeded 6-10 ranked somewhere from 6-10, even if it doesn't match exactly, ditto 11-16, 17-25, 26-32.

Now we'll work backwards to make things easier to keep track of. This will not likely be the order in which such players would be beaten in real life, were this to occur.

In the final, you could beat #1.
Semis- #2
Quarters- #3
r16- #5
r32- #9
r64- #17
1st round- #33

Quality points would be
1- 200
2- 150
3- 132
5- 100
9- 86
17- 46
33- 30

A maximum of 744 quality points. Add that to the 650 round points, and the maximum potential points under normal conditions is 1394.

Jul 8th, 2002, 06:27 PM
Brian, Thanks for the input. Of course under your scenario, the winner in this is bound to lose points the following year since it would be extremely unlikely that they would get the same seeds AND BEAT THEM the following year.

Regarding the second part of the question, do you or anyone else knows what the highest points ever accumulated in a slam. Someone on another board said Venus' win at wimby in 2000 may have been a record. I just can't confirm this.


Jul 8th, 2002, 06:45 PM
Don't know for sure but I'd think Capriati win AO '01 and Serena win at USO '99 may have yielded more points than Venus' wimbly.
Later rounds are where the quality points really come into play
I believe Capriat beat seeds 4,2,1 (qtrs through final)
Venus beat seeds 1,(6 or 7),2
Serena beat seeds 4,2, 1 (not sure that monica was 4th seed)

Jul 8th, 2002, 06:51 PM
A couple of additional questions

1. do you get the points for beating the SEED of the player or the RANK of the player.

2. If its the rank of the player, do you get the ponts based on their rank at the time of the draw or thier current rank. For instance, Serena enters Wimby ranked #2 and makes it to the final ranked#1(unofficially I guess) where she gets beaten by an unseeded upstart. does upstart get quality points for beating a #1 or #2

Jul 8th, 2002, 07:02 PM
Midora, you get points for beating a player based on their RANK at the time the SEEDING was done. Hope this helps. Serena's #1 ranking did not become official until Monday (Midnight Sunday). Had she been beaten by Venus in the final, Venus would NOT have been credited with the quality point for beating the then #1 ranked player.

Brian Stewart
Jul 8th, 2002, 07:06 PM
The quality points are based on a player's ranking when main draw play in the tournament begins. (In the few tourneys that start main draw play on a Sunday, the rankings are from that Monday.)

If someone had beaten Serena, they would have gotten points for beating #2, because Serena didn't officially become #1 until after Wimbledon ended.

Jul 8th, 2002, 07:11 PM
Thanks everyone . Another simple question. please bare wth me as I am just getting to understand this ranking thing.

am i right to assume that you get quality points for beating a player ranked below you? Venus gets points for beating Cappy?

Jul 9th, 2002, 12:28 AM
You always get quality points, it doesn't matter if the player you beat is ranked below or above you, as long as that player is inside top ... 500 or so? I don't exactly know about that, but you can check this and other ranking-stuff at www.eatel.net/~mblue/tenindex.htm and than go to 'Ranking tables 2002' if it's working, coz currently the ranking-table-part seems to be down.

Jul 9th, 2002, 12:51 AM
SERENA will have loads of points to defend next year.
ESPECIALLY quality points and it will be impossible for her to earn more points in some events as she will not be able to defeat the number of player!
SERENA beat the number seed/rank in both the french open wimbledon!
In the past 12 months SERENA has beat number1 ranked players about 6 times, HINGIS a couple of times, CAPRIATI a few times and VENUS once.
THERE is of course no way SERENA can defend these wins! So her points from tournaments if she wins by beating the same players will drop! and whoever beats her will get a high number of quality points.
It will be interesting to see how SERENA holds the number 1 spot.
It must be hard getting to number 1, but staying there is another story!

Jul 9th, 2002, 02:34 AM
You get quality points for beating a player in the Top 500. Those points are doubled in the Grand Slams.

Here is the run down:

No. 1: Regular Tournament - 100, Grand Slam - 200
No. 2: Regular - 75, GS - 150
No. 3: Regular - 66, GS - 132
No. 4: Regular - 55, GS - 110
No. 5: Regular - 50, GS - 100
Nos. 6-10: Regular - 43, GS - 86
Nos. 11-16: Regular - 35, GS - 70
Nos. 17-25: Regular - 23, GS - 46
Nos. 26-35: Regular - 15, GS - 30
Nos. 36-50: Regular - 10, GS - 20
Nos. 51-75: Regular - 8, GS - 16
Nos. 76-120: Regular - 4, GS - 8
Nos. 121-250: Regular - 2, GS - 4
Nos. 251-500: Regular - 1, GS -2