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View Full Version : For Venus, it's 2005 again ... with the exception of Justine.


GoDominique
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:01 PM
I have little doubt now that Venus will make the final. Vaidisova/Ivanovic is another hard-hitting, slow-moving opponent which is just what she needs. Just like in 2005 she's having a very favourable path to the final.
But this time, there won't be slow-moving, big-hitting Davenport awaiting her. It will be Justine, quick and using lots of varieties.
Many have said that Venus' 2005 win was made possible by her good draw. This final will be the ultimate test of that theory. If Justine wins, the haters were right. If Venus wins, the fanatics were right.

Exciting. :)

paranr
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:02 PM
good post!

G1Player2
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:03 PM
I have little doubt now that Venus will make the final. Vaidisova/Ivanovic is another hard-hitting, slow-moving opponent which is just what she needs. Just like in 2005 she'shaving a very favourable path to the final.
But this time, there won't be slow-moving, big-hitting Davenport awaiting her. It will be Justine, quick and using lots of varieties.
Many have said that Venus' 2005 win was made possible by her good draw. This final will be the ultimate test of that theory. If Justine wins, the haters were right. If Venus wins, the fanatics were right.

Exciting. :)

No opponent, IMO, will ever be as tough as the Davenport that Venus faced in that final. NO one.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:06 PM
I have little doubt now that Venus will make the final. Vaidisova/Ivanovic is another hard-hitting, slow-moving opponent which is just what she needs. Just like in 2005 she's having a very favourable path to the final.
But this time, there won't be slow-moving, big-hitting Davenport awaiting her. It will be Justine, quick and using lots of varieties.
Many have said that Venus' 2005 win was made possible by her good draw. This final will be the ultimate test of that theory. If Justine wins, the haters were right. If Venus wins, the fanatics were right.

Exciting. :)

Good draw? Mary Pierce, Sharapova(defending champ) and Lindsay in the final?

compare that to justine's run to the semis, an injured Serena w/no backhand, and no other big named players.

tennisbear7
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:06 PM
No opponent, IMO, will ever be as tough as the Davenport that Venus faced in that final. NO one.

Not even Rena?

I think that Justine will win, purely because she is the more consistent of the two. But Venus may very well blast her way on court. But I think that Justine will expose more of Venus' technical difficulties than Kuz and Sharapova.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:06 PM
I have little doubt now that Venus will make the final. Vaidisova/Ivanovic is another hard-hitting, slow-moving opponent which is just what she needs. Just like in 2005 she's having a very favourable path to the final.
But this time, there won't be slow-moving, big-hitting Davenport awaiting her. It will be Justine, quick and using lots of varieties.
Many have said that Venus' 2005 win was made possible by her good draw. This final will be the ultimate test of that theory. If Justine wins, the haters were right. If Venus wins, the fanatics were right.

Exciting. :)

Good draw? Mary Pierce, Sharapova(defending champ) and Lindsay in the final?

compare that to justine's run to the semis, an injured Serena w/no backhand, and no other big named players.:tape:

mdterp01
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Justine has nothing to do with it. Its ALL about Venus, and when she gets this far at Wimbledon, watch out!!! No sister to play so she doesn't have to worry about that. She has never lost to anyone on Centre Court besides Serena, and with Venus brushing aside Kuzzy the way she did, I'd say all those psychics who were giving Justine the trophy need to hold off until this championship is over. Venus hits a flatter, harder ball than Serena and will certainly move better. If Venus continues to play like this it will be a repeat of '05.

tennisbear7
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:08 PM
And Bartoli in the SF!

No disrespect to Marion, though. She has been playing awesome too.

brayster87
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:10 PM
No opponent, IMO, will ever be as tough as the Davenport that Venus faced in that final. NO one.

Damn straight:worship:

i miss Linds!

G1Player2
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:11 PM
Good draw? Mary Pierce, Sharapova(defending champ) and Lindsay in the final?

compare that to justine's run to the semis, an injured Serena w/no backhand, and no other big named players.:tape:

Even excluding Sharapova and Pierce, the fact that Venus beat Davenport in the best match she ever played but lost, is still impressive.

TSequoia01
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:12 PM
Justine has nothing to do with it. Its ALL about Venus, and when she gets this far at Wimbledon, watch out!!! No sister to play so she doesn't have to worry about that. She has never lost to anyone on Centre Court besides Serena, and with Venus brushing aside Kuzzy the way she did, I'd say all those psychics who were giving Justine the trophy need to hold off until this championship is over. Venus hits a flatter, harder ball than Serena and will certainly move better. If Venus continues to play like this it will be a repeat of '05.

Yep the stars are aligning aren't they! :cool:

Shuji Shuriken
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:16 PM
Who has Justine had to face thus far, besides Serena that is :tape: :tape: :tape:?

Viktymise
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:16 PM
If Venus can serve the way she did against Sharapova, Justine could thrown everything and the kitchen sink at her, there would only be one winner

DA FOREHAND
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:18 PM
And Bartoli in the SF!

No disrespect to Marion, though. She has been playing awesome too.

yes she has great numbers on her winners to ue's, but her serve is suspect, not sure about her movement either.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:20 PM
Justine has nothing to do with it. Its ALL about Venus, and when she gets this far at Wimbledon, watch out!!! No sister to play so she doesn't have to worry about that. She has never lost to anyone on Centre Court besides Serena, and with Venus brushing aside Kuzzy the way she did, I'd say all those psychics who were giving Justine the trophy need to hold off until this championship is over. Venus hits a flatter, harder ball than Serena and will certainly move better. If Venus continues to play like this it will be a repeat of '05.

SAY THAT!! :worship:

Onyxangel
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:23 PM
Vee is the ultimate wildcard in any match... she may actually double-bagel Ju... or she may get double-bageled...

I should start a clinic to treat Venus fans for ulcers...

VenusSerenaBlvd.
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Lindsay 05 Wimby was on fire. That was the best I'd ever seen Lindsay move. Venus always had difficulty facing Lindsay because she can handle Venus' pace of shot. But Venus can simply overpower Justine. But I think we are thinking way too far ahead. ok not too far, but I think you all know what I mean. Venus still has one more match to get to the finals, so we'll do the Venus vs. Justine thread once they are both in the final.

Uranus
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Agreed, GoDominique!

cellophane
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:32 PM
Justine is nothing like the opponents Venus has played, so I don't think it will be the same... Justine is going to throw all kinds of stuff at Venus to take her out of the comfort zone. She can hit with Venus. That said, if Venus brings it, she can certainly win.

nhissan
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:32 PM
Lindsay 05 Wimby was on fire. That was the best I'd ever seen Lindsay move. Venus always had difficulty facing Lindsay because she can handle Venus' pace of shot. But Venus can simply overpower Justine. But I think we are thinking way too far ahead. ok not too far, but I think you all know what I mean. Venus still has one more match to get to the finals, so we'll do the Venus vs. Justine thread once they are both in the final.

Justine too ;)

Tennisaddict
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:38 PM
Nah, I have never seen Davenport play that well as the final of Wimbledon 2005. She even had matchpoint and even that didnīt stop Venus from beating her. If both reach the final and Venus plays like she did against Maria she will win. Justine will try to use a lot of variety and finish points of at the net but she has to have the ability to move to the net. She wonīt if Venus keeps blasting groundstrokes at her that are on the line or close to the line.

vwfan
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:42 PM
Damn straight:worship:

i miss Linds!ditto on both counts. :hearts:

that match was a match of two great champions and grass court players--both of whom had/have lots of respect for each other.

sorry, but linds' grass court credentials surpass those of justine and linds wanted that title badly and threw everything venus' way. except for a few key points, Venus upped her level and emerged the winner.

but Venus and Justine both have semi-finals to play, so one match at a time.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:49 PM
No opponent, IMO, will ever be as tough as the Davenport that Venus faced in that final. NO one.

Yes lord...Davenport was about to win Wimbledon if old school Venus hadnt showed up..I mean that girl threw everything including her moma at Venus that day. STILL ...Venus is not quite there like she was in 05...she gettin there though...

Volcana
Jul 5th, 2007, 02:13 PM
I have little doubt now that Venus will make the final. Vaidisova/Ivanovic is another hard-hitting, slow-moving opponent which is just what she needs. Just like in 2005 she's having a very favourable path to the final.
But this time, there won't be slow-moving, big-hitting Davenport awaiting her. It will be Justine, quick and using lots of varieties.
Many have said that Venus' 2005 win was made possible by her good draw. This final will be the ultimate test of that theory. If Justine wins, the haters were right. If Venus wins, the fanatics were right.
I completely disagree.

1) The semis aren't a given. Vaidosova is just another big-serving, flat hitting, not-that-fast baseliner. Skilled, but not experienced. Buit she could turned into Sharpie '04. Ivanovic had some variety, and wil make Venus generate her own pace.

2) When she's playing well, and she's fit, 'quick and using lots of varieties' is a good description of how Kuznetsova plays. Of course, I don't know how Kuzzy played today. (Thank you NBC.)

Oops ...

3) I'm a fanatic about Venus, no doubt, but I'm also one of the people who attributed Venus' 2005 Wimby title to a good draw. Yes, Mary Pierce, Maria Sharapova, and Lindsay Davenport were, at the time, all elite players. All GS champs. And yes, the final was an instant classic. But it WAS three players who were basically trying to power Venus off the court. In other words, they used their strength against one of Venus' strengths, her footspeed.

Henin will try and make it a high speed chess match. The h2h is what it is, of course, but you don't beat Venus by challenging her speed.

4) This final ultimately tells us nothing about 2005. The haters will continue to believe what they want, the fanatics will continue to believe what they want.

GoDominique
Jul 5th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Personally I think lots of Venus fanatics are giving way too much praise to that 2005 final.
Sure, it was a fascinating match, but at least for most of the first two sets Venus didn't actually play that well.
And yes, Lindsay did play well, but at her best ever? Come on, that is absolute nonsense if you consider all aspects of the game. Mentally she was far from her best (which was in 1999/2000), coming off multiple chokes at Grand Slams recently. This fact alone trumps the actual playing form, because knowing this Venus would always have hope for victory, and Lindsay would always have doubt about her victory. So it's ridiculous to say Venus beat Lindsay "at her best ever" when that Lindsay hadn't won a slam in 5 years.

GoDominique
Jul 5th, 2007, 04:49 PM
She has never lost to anyone on Centre Court besides Serena,and Graf.

jujufreak
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:01 PM
Justine has nothing to do with it. Its ALL about Venus, and when she gets this far at Wimbledon, watch out!!!

that's :bs:

there are always two players in a match and it's very disrespectful, arrogant and narrow minded to say it's all about one of them.

saki
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:07 PM
that's :bs:

there are always two players in a match and it's very disrespectful, arrogant and narrow minded to say it's all about one of them.

Ah, but the two players in a Venus Williams match are Venus Williams and Venus Williams. Only Venus can beat herself.. I'm surprised that the scoreboard operators haven't worked this out yet. ;)

Slutiana
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:13 PM
No opponent, IMO, will ever be as tough as the Davenport that Venus faced in that final. NO one.

agreed. They were both amazing and Davenport even admitted that although she twas obviously upsed and dissapointed..she gave it her absolute best and most of the time played the best tennis of her life and she just lost to a better opponent...very gracious:worship:

The reason venus holds a 7-1 lead over Henin, forgetting how long ago they last played, is because venus' game matches up soo well against henin's. Venus Can dominate justine from the back...henin wont dominate venus..venus will be able to get soo many free points on her serve....henin won't...people are saying that henin has to come to the net if she wants to win coz thats the only way shes gonna be getting the ball past venus on a reg. basis....henin's problem is that venus can come to the net and take the net away from henin...then of course henin will find it hard to lob or pass venus coz of venus' reach...lets hope they get there coz if they both were to, that could be one of the best matches ever...henin has definatly been playing the bst grass court tennis of her life this tournie and venus is playing really well and has been hitting the least errors shes ever hit...also she runing quicker than ever....i soo want this to happen...usually i'd want the easier opponent if venus was to get through but i WANT this match BADLY:help:

MistyGrey
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:14 PM
and Graf.

Didnt Novotna beat her on Centre Court too? or was it Court 1? I think it was Centre Court. Not sure though...

LindsayRulz
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM
Uh? Lindsay is a much more better player on grass than Justine.

IAM#1
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:49 PM
I think history is repeating itself.... Venus played Davenport to win her 1st title.... She played Justine to win her 2nd.. She beat Davenport to win her 3rd.. She will beat Justine to win her 4th...

trufanjay
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:52 PM
If Venus keeps this up then the title is hers. Justine is not as good as Lindsay is on grass so the final will be easier.

John.
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:54 PM
Didnt Novotna beat her on Centre Court too? or was it Court 1? I think it was Centre Court. Not sure though...

Matches Vee has lost on Center Court

1998: Novotna
1999:Graf
2002:Serena
2003:Serena
2004:Sprem :help::tape::o

After her win today, she has a 23/5 W-L record on Center Court

AcesHigh
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:56 PM
There is a reason it's a 7-1 H2H against Justine. Justine has an easier time against Serena b/c she can use her variety, accurate powerful strokes to move Serena around, frustrate her or hit winners.

Venus is MUCH quicker, faster and moves much better than Serena. She also hits much flatter which allows Justine less time to reach the ball or set up.

If Venus continues her current form, she should be the favorite for the next two matches.

harloo
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:03 PM
Personally I think lots of Venus fanatics are giving way too much praise to that 2005 final.
Sure, it was a fascinating match, but at least for most of the first two sets Venus didn't actually play that well.
And yes, Lindsay did play well, but at her best ever? Come on, that is absolute nonsense if you consider all aspects of the game. Mentally she was far from her best (which was in 1999/2000), coming off multiple chokes at Grand Slams recently. This fact alone trumps the actual playing form, because knowing this Venus would always have hope for victory, and Lindsay would always have doubt about her victory. So it's ridiculous to say Venus beat Lindsay "at her best ever" when that Lindsay hadn't won a slam in 5 years.

The 2005 final was a remarkable feat and both champions should be praised for their efforts. And Lindsay did play the best I've ever seen her in a Wimbledon final, she really wanted to win. It's a reason the match is called a classic. Both women wanted that title so badly and fought hard to win. What are you arguing about?:o