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Tennis Fool
Apr 19th, 2007, 01:09 AM
I think I learned/heard about this as a kid, but forgot about it. Anyone see any similarities or differences between this and current events?

To add: it's interesting to me that no firearms were used. This guy was able to amass explosive material that he bought from local stores. It just shows that if someone wants to do a mass murder, they will find a way. I also kind of doubt he was influenced by the mass media/culture of the day.


Just Another Summer Day: The Bath School Disaster

by Debra Pawlak http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_school.gifWhile Charles Lindbergh was making aviation history with his flight to Paris, the families of Bath, Michigan were burying their dead. The small and unassuming rural village lies peacefully just outside of Lansing—Michigan's state capitol. It's a tranquil sort of town where lingering spring days beckon the coming of summer. Not so the spring of 1927 when daydreams turned to nightmares as the residents of Bath came face to face with death and madness.
That was the year when the quiet community found themselves unwillingly thrust into the national spotlight—their innocence lost. It was the year when one of their own dynamited the newly built school killing thirty-eight of their children.
Born in 1872 in Tecumseh, Michigan, Andrew Kehoe was one of thirteen children. He graduated from Tecumseh High School and went on to attend East Lansing's Michigan State College (now Michigan State University). While there, he met Nellie Price and eventually married her.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_kehoe_and_nellie.jpgFor a while, the couple lived out west, where an accident left Kehoe with a serious head injury. After drifting in and out of a coma for days, he eventually recovered. Whether the head injury had anything to do with his subsequent actions, we'll never know, but such injuries have been shown to sometimes alter the personalities of victims. (Significantly, head injuries are one of the few common denominators among serial killers.)
After his recovery, the Kehoes settled in Bath where they bought a farm from Nellie's uncle. Then their financial troubles started. Kehoe lived in dire fear of losing the farm. He blamed his money woes on the high taxes he thought he paid and so began his vehement campaign to lower them.
Elected to the Bath school board as Treasurer, Kehoe fought hard against the building of a new school. Not only did he feel it was unnecessary, but, to him, a new school meant more taxes. Despite his heated arguments against it, the district built the Bath Consolidated School leaving Kehoe embittered. He blamed the board and, in particular, its president, Emory E. Huyck, for his poor financial circumstances. Finally, when the mortgage on his farm was foreclosed, Kehoe grew even angrier. The way he saw it, the school, and the higher taxes it caused, ruined his life. Andrew Kehoe wanted to get even.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_kehoe_home.gifIn the winter of 1926, the board appointed Kehoe, a handyman, to do maintenance work inside the new school. But Kehoe wasn't interested in upkeep. He used his new position to get revenge. For months, he traveled from store to store, in and around Lansing, purchasing small amounts of explosives, which he took to the school. There, he developed an intricate wiring system connecting the carefully laid dynamite beneath the floor and in the walls and rafters of the Bath Consolidated School. By May of the following year, he had laid thousands of feet of wire linking over one thousand pounds of dynamite, which he planned to detonate with a clock. Not a man to leave loose ends, Kehoe also rigged the buildings on his farm.
On May 17, 1927, Kehoe put his painstaking plan into action. First, he filled the back seat of his pickup truck with old tools, nails, shovels and any other metal materials he could find. On top of the junk, he placed a package of dynamite. Next, he laid a loaded rifle on the front seat. Then, he murdered his wife.
The next morning brought with it a beautiful spring day. Beneath the deceiving warmth of the sun, hard working farmers went into their fields and unsuspecting mothers saw their children off to school—some for the last time-while Andrew Kehoe went about his ominous work. Around 8:45 a.m., the nightmare started as the first deadly explosions came directly from Kehoe's farm. In the midst of their early routines, concerned neighbors rushed to offer help, but in minutes the entire farm went up in flames.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_school2.gifShortly after, a second explosion, even louder than the first, blasted through the air causing the earth to shake. The school! The townsfolk panicked as they rushed to the scene unable to comprehend the horror that greeted them. Half the building was gone. Trapped underneath the fallen roof and collapsed walls were the children-some eerily silent, some hysterically screaming. With windows shattered in nearby homes, cars on fire and trees aflame, more explosions could be heard coming from the Kehoe farm. The people of Bath thought that they were under siege.
An elderly neighbor who witnessed the school explosion described the scene: "The whole walls caved outward, the roof toppled into the interior and a heavy cloud of smoke spread out in all directions. Then we heard the screams of the children…For a few minutes we could not understand what had happened."
Robert Gates was one of the first men to reach the school. He remembered: "Mother after mother came running into the school yard, and demanded information about her child and, on seeing the lifeless form lying on the lawn, broke into sobs…In no time more than 100 men were at work tearing away the debris of the school, and nearly as many women were frantically pawing over the timber and broken bricks for traces of their children."
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_huyck.gifAmidst the chaos, Andrew Kehoe pulled up in his truck. He surveyed the carnage until he spotted Superintendent Huyck, digging in the rubble along with the others. Huyck had been giving a test to some pupils just as the explosion struck. After leading his students to safety, he returned to the school to assist with the rescue effort when Kehoe called to him. As Huyck approached the truck, Kehoe turned, picked up his rifle and fired a shot point blank into the dynamite behind him. As the vehicle exploded, the metal debris in the backseat turned into deadly shrapnel killing not only Kehoe, but Huyck, Postmaster Glen Smith, resident Nelson McFarren and eight-year old Cleo Clayton who had just survived the school explosion and happened to be walking by.
The Michigan State Police, as well as other local police and fire departments, arrived at the deadly scene to find parents frantically digging for their children. As they joined in the rescue effort, the officers were shocked to find more dynamite in the basement. There was no choice, but to temporarily stop the search and clear the area until all of the explosives were found and dismantled. Over 500 pounds of undetonated dynamite were removed from what remained of the school. It seems the first explosion caused something to go wrong with Kehoe's wiring and, thankfully, only half of the dynamite had gone off.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_dynamite.gifThe bodies of the children were taken to City Hall where a temporary morgue was set up. Horrified parents were brought in to identify their sons and daughters. In the end, thirty-eight children and seven adults were killed with dozens more injured. Every single home in the community suffered from a fatality or injury-some losing more than one child. The next day as families mourned, Nellie Kehoe's body was found on what was left of the farm. The buildings were leveled and the farm animals had perished. As officials searched the property, they found a hand made sign wired to a fence-a final message from a misguided man who had taken revenge. It read: "CRIMINALS ARE MADE, NOT BORN."
Today a small park stands on the spot where the school once was. The names of the children that died there are engraved on a bronze plaque-Bath's way of ensuring that neither they, nor their story, will be forgotten. Just this past May, the people of Bath remembered. Over 200 residents and some survivors attended a memorial service to honor those that died so violently. Seventy-five years later, their anguish is still visible-their memories still vivid. What happened in Bath was, and still is, the worst incident of school violence in American history and, until 1995's bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building, it stood alone as the single worst act of domestic terrorism—a term unheard of back in 1927. Still a small town, but no longer innocent, these men and women know only too well the haunting record they hold.

http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_sign.gif

©Copyright The Mediadrome 2001, 2002 All Rights Reserved. http://www.themediadrome.com

tennislover
Apr 19th, 2007, 02:16 AM
interesting!

mykarma
Apr 19th, 2007, 02:46 AM
I think I learned/heard about this as a kid, but forgot about it. Anyone see any similarities or differences between this and current events?

Just Another Summer Day: The Bath School Disaster

by Debra Pawlak http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_school.gifWhile Charles Lindbergh was making aviation history with his flight to Paris, the families of Bath, Michigan were burying their dead. The small and unassuming rural village lies peacefully just outside of Lansing—Michigan's state capitol. It's a tranquil sort of town where lingering spring days beckon the coming of summer. Not so the spring of 1927 when daydreams turned to nightmares as the residents of Bath came face to face with death and madness.
That was the year when the quiet community found themselves unwillingly thrust into the national spotlight—their innocence lost. It was the year when one of their own dynamited the newly built school killing thirty-eight of their children.
Born in 1872 in Tecumseh, Michigan, Andrew Kehoe was one of thirteen children. He graduated from Tecumseh High School and went on to attend East Lansing's Michigan State College (now Michigan State University). While there, he met Nellie Price and eventually married her.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_kehoe_and_nellie.jpgFor a while, the couple lived out west, where an accident left Kehoe with a serious head injury. After drifting in and out of a coma for days, he eventually recovered. Whether the head injury had anything to do with his subsequent actions, we'll never know, but such injuries have been shown to sometimes alter the personalities of victims. (Significantly, head injuries are one of the few common denominators among serial killers.)
After his recovery, the Kehoes settled in Bath where they bought a farm from Nellie's uncle. Then their financial troubles started. Kehoe lived in dire fear of losing the farm. He blamed his money woes on the high taxes he thought he paid and so began his vehement campaign to lower them.
Elected to the Bath school board as Treasurer, Kehoe fought hard against the building of a new school. Not only did he feel it was unnecessary, but, to him, a new school meant more taxes. Despite his heated arguments against it, the district built the Bath Consolidated School leaving Kehoe embittered. He blamed the board and, in particular, its president, Emory E. Huyck, for his poor financial circumstances. Finally, when the mortgage on his farm was foreclosed, Kehoe grew even angrier. The way he saw it, the school, and the higher taxes it caused, ruined his life. Andrew Kehoe wanted to get even.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_kehoe_home.gifIn the winter of 1926, the board appointed Kehoe, a handyman, to do maintenance work inside the new school. But Kehoe wasn't interested in upkeep. He used his new position to get revenge. For months, he traveled from store to store, in and around Lansing, purchasing small amounts of explosives, which he took to the school. There, he developed an intricate wiring system connecting the carefully laid dynamite beneath the floor and in the walls and rafters of the Bath Consolidated School. By May of the following year, he had laid thousands of feet of wire linking over one thousand pounds of dynamite, which he planned to detonate with a clock. Not a man to leave loose ends, Kehoe also rigged the buildings on his farm.
On May 17, 1927, Kehoe put his painstaking plan into action. First, he filled the back seat of his pickup truck with old tools, nails, shovels and any other metal materials he could find. On top of the junk, he placed a package of dynamite. Next, he laid a loaded rifle on the front seat. Then, he murdered his wife.
The next morning brought with it a beautiful spring day. Beneath the deceiving warmth of the sun, hard working farmers went into their fields and unsuspecting mothers saw their children off to school—some for the last time-while Andrew Kehoe went about his ominous work. Around 8:45 a.m., the nightmare started as the first deadly explosions came directly from Kehoe's farm. In the midst of their early routines, concerned neighbors rushed to offer help, but in minutes the entire farm went up in flames.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_school2.gifShortly after, a second explosion, even louder than the first, blasted through the air causing the earth to shake. The school! The townsfolk panicked as they rushed to the scene unable to comprehend the horror that greeted them. Half the building was gone. Trapped underneath the fallen roof and collapsed walls were the children-some eerily silent, some hysterically screaming. With windows shattered in nearby homes, cars on fire and trees aflame, more explosions could be heard coming from the Kehoe farm. The people of Bath thought that they were under siege.
An elderly neighbor who witnessed the school explosion described the scene: "The whole walls caved outward, the roof toppled into the interior and a heavy cloud of smoke spread out in all directions. Then we heard the screams of the children…For a few minutes we could not understand what had happened."
Robert Gates was one of the first men to reach the school. He remembered: "Mother after mother came running into the school yard, and demanded information about her child and, on seeing the lifeless form lying on the lawn, broke into sobs…In no time more than 100 men were at work tearing away the debris of the school, and nearly as many women were frantically pawing over the timber and broken bricks for traces of their children."
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_huyck.gifAmidst the chaos, Andrew Kehoe pulled up in his truck. He surveyed the carnage until he spotted Superintendent Huyck, digging in the rubble along with the others. Huyck had been giving a test to some pupils just as the explosion struck. After leading his students to safety, he returned to the school to assist with the rescue effort when Kehoe called to him. As Huyck approached the truck, Kehoe turned, picked up his rifle and fired a shot point blank into the dynamite behind him. As the vehicle exploded, the metal debris in the backseat turned into deadly shrapnel killing not only Kehoe, but Huyck, Postmaster Glen Smith, resident Nelson McFarren and eight-year old Cleo Clayton who had just survived the school explosion and happened to be walking by.
The Michigan State Police, as well as other local police and fire departments, arrived at the deadly scene to find parents frantically digging for their children. As they joined in the rescue effort, the officers were shocked to find more dynamite in the basement. There was no choice, but to temporarily stop the search and clear the area until all of the explosives were found and dismantled. Over 500 pounds of undetonated dynamite were removed from what remained of the school. It seems the first explosion caused something to go wrong with Kehoe's wiring and, thankfully, only half of the dynamite had gone off.
http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_dynamite.gifThe bodies of the children were taken to City Hall where a temporary morgue was set up. Horrified parents were brought in to identify their sons and daughters. In the end, thirty-eight children and seven adults were killed with dozens more injured. Every single home in the community suffered from a fatality or injury-some losing more than one child. The next day as families mourned, Nellie Kehoe's body was found on what was left of the farm. The buildings were leveled and the farm animals had perished. As officials searched the property, they found a hand made sign wired to a fence-a final message from a misguided man who had taken revenge. It read: "CRIMINALS ARE MADE, NOT BORN."
Today a small park stands on the spot where the school once was. The names of the children that died there are engraved on a bronze plaque-Bath's way of ensuring that neither they, nor their story, will be forgotten. Just this past May, the people of Bath remembered. Over 200 residents and some survivors attended a memorial service to honor those that died so violently. Seventy-five years later, their anguish is still visible-their memories still vivid. What happened in Bath was, and still is, the worst incident of school violence in American history and, until 1995's bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building, it stood alone as the single worst act of domestic terrorism—a term unheard of back in 1927. Still a small town, but no longer innocent, these men and women know only too well the haunting record they hold.

http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/history/bath_sign.gif

©Copyright The Mediadrome 2001, 2002 All Rights Reserved. http://www.themediadrome.com
Rosewood American's dirty secret.
ROSEWOOD
A Review, By Shlomoh Sherman
"Rosewood" is the true story of the slaughter of backs by whites in the
town of Rosewood, Florida in early 1923. For years, the self improvement
of the balck community of the town caused jealousy and anger to fester in
the hearts of many of the white people. Many blacks in the town owned land
and were doing financially well, despite the second class citizenship they
had to suffer due their negritude in the South. "Why does that ****** have
a piano when I don't?", asks one white man.

Early in the film, we see a white woman being beaten by her white lover.
She is covered by bruises and has to hide her mid-day romance from her
husband at any cost. When she tells the sherrif that she has been raped
and beaten by a "******", a chain of events is set off in which the white
population of the town turns into a crazed, hatefull mob seeking to express
their anger by attempting to kill every black resident of the town.
The violence grows to a frenzied pitch and innocent men, women, and
children are mercilessly beaten, shot, lynched, and raped by their white
neighbors. Their houses are destroyed, their church burned to the ground,
their possessions vandalized.

The local sherrif suspects that the women has lied about being attacked by
a black man but he keeps his thoughts to himself as the citizens take the
law into their own hands and ignore his feeble pleas to maintain order.

The meanness and visciousness of the mob reached to such a point that a
young child of one of the white lynchers, Duke (Bruce McGill), tells his
father that the adults are not human, and ultimately when the riots are
over, he leaves home, refusing to live with a parent who has "killed
babies".

When the violence finally came to an end, the official report said that
two to six people had been killed in the riot. Actually the real figure
probably exceeded 100.
It was not until 1993 that the survivors or their descendants received
repararations for the murders from the state of Florida.

For those of you who have read my review of PRIEST, you know that I often
try to look beyond the specific story of the drama for a more general
message that the film has conveyed to me. For to me, the film is more than
just the unwarranted attack of the powerfull majority on the helpless
law abiding minority in a specific time and place. To me, "Rosewood" is the
story of the persecution of the "other" for no other reason than that he is
different and helpless to protect himself. The pain and humiliation
suffered by the blacks of Rosewood at the hands of people they had lived
alongside and worked with all their lives is the same pain suffered by the
Armenians at the hands of the Turks, the pain suffered by the Samaritans
at the hands of the Moslems, and the pain suffered by the Jews at the hands
of the Germans and their European sympathizers and fellow-travellers.
As one individual noted, after the Holocaust, all it takes for evil to
triumph is for good people to remain silent.

"Rosewood" is not a film that will be easily viewed by those without
intestinal fortitude. It is, however, a film worth seeing, if only to
remind ourselves that the human race still has a long way to go to learn
about good will to, and love of, fellow man and peace on earth.


John Wright: Jon Voight
Mann: Ving Rhames
Sylvester Carrier: Don Cheadle
Duke: Bruce McGill
James Taylor: Loren Dean

Director: John Singleton.
Screen Writter: Gregory Poirier.

Running time: 142 minutes.

Rated R (violence and sexuality).

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 19th, 2007, 03:18 AM
Interesting.
What's also interesting is why mykarma has decided that Rosewood incident belongs in this thread which is about the worse mass school killing in the US.

Rosewood is an awful incident in the history of America but it doesn't belong in this thread.
You're inciting race where it doesn't even apply.

Even the generalization doesn't apply.
There are billions of people who have had it worse than this man in their life and they aren't killing people.

Good people weren't silent. The parents voiced their opinions about him.
The professors voiced their opinions about him.
But in this country it's not a crime to be a loner, to be anti-social, or to write dark literature.
It is a crime to stalk though and perhaps some serious consequences should have been done about that.

mykarma
Apr 19th, 2007, 04:23 AM
Interesting.
What's also interesting is why mykarma has decided that Rosewood incident belongs in this thread which is about the worse mass school killing in the US.

Rosewood is an awful incident in the history of America but it doesn't belong in this thread.
You're inciting race where it doesn't even apply.

Even the generalization doesn't apply.
There are billions of people who have had it worse than this man in their life and they aren't killing people.

Good people weren't silent. The parents voiced their opinions about him.
The professors voiced their opinions about him.
But in this country it's not a crime to be a loner, to be anti-social, or to write dark literature.
It is a crime to stalk though and perhaps some serious consequences should have been done about that.
Because mykarma wanted to.

Wigglytuff
Apr 19th, 2007, 05:09 AM
Because mykarma wanted to.

pay him no mind, wannabeknowitall hates blacks more than kkkramer does :eek:

mykarma
Apr 19th, 2007, 05:21 AM
pay him no mind, wannabeknowitall hates blacks more than kkkramer does :eek:
I don't pay attention to him. If he wants to be the wta police, perhaps he could ban himself for about a year. He commented on my smiley so I'll give him three of them.
:lol::lol::lol:

mykarma
Apr 19th, 2007, 05:24 AM
Interesting.
What's also interesting is why mykarma has decided that Rosewood incident belongs in this thread which is about the worse mass school killing in the US.

Rosewood is an awful incident in the history of America but it doesn't belong in this thread.
You're inciting race where it doesn't even apply.

Even the generalization doesn't apply.
There are billions of people who have had it worse than this man in their life and they aren't killing people.

Good people weren't silent. The parents voiced their opinions about him.
The professors voiced their opinions about him.
But in this country it's not a crime to be a loner, to be anti-social, or to write dark literature.
It is a crime to stalk though and perhaps some serious consequences should have been done about that.
Say it isn't so, this thread wasn't about VT was it. :tape:

Tennis Fool
Apr 19th, 2007, 05:30 AM
Hey, hey. Can we keep this on topic, please :) I wanted to have a compare/contrast conversation between the Bath incident and VT.

Thanks. :D

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 19th, 2007, 05:57 AM
Say it isn't so, this thread wasn't about VT was it. :tape:

Hey, hey. Can we keep this on topic, please :) I wanted to have a compare/contrast conversation between the Bath incident and VT.

Thanks. :D

According to Tennis Fool, the thread starter, it did/does pertain to VT, yes.
I thought it was blantantly obvious that the thread starter was trying to show that through this incident.
And somehow, someway you went way off in left field, typical.

But to get back on topic.
The similarities of the Bath incident are interesting to the VT killer.
The most important thing to notice though is the Bath killer wasn't a loner, wasn't anti-social (he seemed to be a involved citizen of his community), and seemed pretty "normal" except for the fact that he blamed things that most people usually wouldn't blame for the problems in his life.

It just shows you that the most important factor is not that he was a loner or that he wrote dark literature or anything else people are trying to use as signs that he was going to kill 33 people, it's the ability to warp his issues with life into issues with the world.

And I do agree with the sentiment that if a person wants to kill they will find a way.
Now we can go extreme and make universities like almost jails to make sure this incident doesn't happen again.
Even in the most high security jails if a criminals wants to kill someone, they have the means and it still takes 30 seconds for it to be busted up.
So sadly someone was going to die that day even if we went to the extremes to try to prevent it.

If the university had metal detectors all around campus this guy could have used a plastic bomb in his shoe, go to a classroom and still kill 33 people.
He would have likely had to do it a little more discrete than he did with this incident but still possible.
And that list goes on and goes, perhaps less people would have died as you go up the extremes but someone would have likely died.

Tennis Fool
Apr 22nd, 2007, 05:40 AM
It just shows you that the most important factor is not that he was a loner or that he wrote dark literature or anything else people are trying to use as signs that he was going to kill 33 people, it's the ability to warp his issues with life into issues with the world.



I think this is a truly underestimated sentiment. From another article I read, mass killings were about as common in the 1920s and 1930s as they are today, except back then, many of the killers were failed farmers (like the Bath killer). Now, they seem to be students who feel like failures in some sense. In the 1980s, postal workers were the mass killers.

To me it's interesting that the psychosis reflects some part of the current culture and how an individual feels alienated from it.

In the Bath article, the killer did receive a head wound and it is stated that's such an injury is common among mass killers. I wonder if anything of the sort will be found with the VT killer (although I've already heard that he may have been affected by long-term exposure to dry cleaning chemicals from his parents' business--although I'm a skeptic).

Rocketta
Apr 22nd, 2007, 06:53 AM
In the Bath article, the killer did receive a head wound and it is stated that's such an injury is common among mass killers. I wonder if anything of the sort will be found with the VT killer (although I've already heard that he may have been affected by long-term exposure to dry cleaning chemicals from his parents' business--although I'm a skeptic).

It said most Serial Killers had significant head injuries....they are not the same....Serial Killers verses Mass killers.

btw, it's a shocking story and I think it just reflects the things I've been saying it's not about guns it's about mental health and the lack of treatment in this country. Stress is such a crippling emotional and physical thing. We as a society need to stop acting like stess is not a big deal, clearly in kills in more ways than one. :(

wta_zuperfann
Apr 22nd, 2007, 07:21 AM
I thought the worse mass school killing was the burning and killing of innocent young children in the Colored Children's Orphanage in NYC during the anti-draft riots of 1863. Historians disagree with the actual number of casualties there and among other blacks as racist whites rampaged throughout Manhattan.

Lord Nelson
Apr 22nd, 2007, 01:16 PM
I thought the worse mass school killing was the burning and killing of innocent young children in the Colored Children's Orphanage in NYC during the anti-draft riots of 1863. Historians disagree with the actual number of casualties there and among other blacks as racist whites rampaged throughout Manhattan.
I read about this. It has nothing to do about school shootings. People were rioting and the police were shooting back. Nothing to do with school. The worst mass shooting in recent years was in 1966.

Rocketta
Apr 22nd, 2007, 07:35 PM
I read about this. It has nothing to do about school shootings. People were rioting and the police were shooting back. Nothing to do with school. The worst mass shooting in recent years was in 1966.

um, did kids die in school? Then what's the diffence? They all stem from whackos doing whacky things. :shrug:

mandy7
Apr 22nd, 2007, 08:49 PM
pay him no mind, wannabeknowitall hates blacks more than kkkramer does :eek:
haha, according to you, everybody hates black ppl.

Halardfan
Apr 23rd, 2007, 12:38 AM
There has been a sentiment following recent events that that somehow gun control is pointless as people will always be able to find alternative means to carry out their insane schemes. Like bombs in the given example.

I dont buy this...ideally Id ban all guns but accepting that would be unlikely to happen in the US, then restricting their availability is the best option available.

Guns are hateful things, their primary reason for being is to kill the thing you point them at, the worship of guns by a section of US society is a big reason I think why gun crime is such a huge problem in the US.
The main reason most other western countries have nothing like America's gun crime is because the notion of a right to bear arms does not infect public policy and attitudes in most places beyond the USA.

Again its not all about the guns, there are other reasons that America has such a problem in this area, but guns and the attitudes towards them is number one reason.

Tennis Fool
Apr 23rd, 2007, 03:40 AM
There has been a sentiment following recent events that that somehow gun control is pointless as people will always be able to find alternative means to carry out their insane schemes. Like bombs in the given example.

So you think mass killings would stop entirely in the US if guns were banned/eliminated?

wta_zuperfann
Apr 23rd, 2007, 04:31 AM
um, did kids die in school? Then what's the diffence? They all stem from whackos doing whacky things. :shrug:


Yes, in the school and as they were desperately trying to escape. There is no consensus on how many were actually killed.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 23rd, 2007, 04:34 AM
I thought the worse mass school killing was the burning and killing of innocent young children in the Colored Children's Orphanage in NYC during the anti-draft riots of 1863. Historians disagree with the actual number of casualties there and among other blacks as racist whites rampaged throughout Manhattan.

um, did kids die in school? Then what's the diffence? They all stem from whackos doing whacky things. :shrug:

If you two want to make this about race then that's fine but we'll never really get to the bottom as to why this man thought that this is something he had to do.

If you're really that serious as to finding out why this man thought it was ok to burn down a NYC orphanage almost 145 years ago then perhaps you can research what these NYC orphanages and foster care system are doing today.

They are using these children (black, white, green, or yellow) as guinea pigs for the latest HIV/AIDS and other medicines and it's making these children extremely sick and they're doing just because they have the option to because supposedly the impoverished don't have a voice.

But you don't care as long as somehow it can be a black or white issue.

Sadly, it's the same with the killer.
He could only see rich or poor at a state univerisity.
If he somehow actually got a real look at some of the people at this university who really on average had it worse than him maybe things could be different but he wasn't willing to see that and noone really invited him in.

mykarma
Apr 23rd, 2007, 04:36 AM
I read about this. It has nothing to do about school shootings. People were rioting and the police were shooting back. Nothing to do with school. The worst mass shooting in recent years was in 1966.
I don't think the original article had nothing to do with shooting either>

wta_zuperfann
Apr 23rd, 2007, 04:38 AM
Hold on there, partner --- I did not say I'm looking to make this into a racially oriented discussion. The question was regarding the worse mass school killing in USA history. I am a member of an American history historical society and have a fair knowledge of USA's past. In terms of numbers it was my understanding that the killing of innocents at the Colored Children's Orphanage was the worse. Please note that I mentioned draft rioters and did not identify any victimizers by race.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 23rd, 2007, 04:46 AM
I don't think the original article had nothing to do with shooting either>

Well at least you're admitting your first post was an attempt to sabotage this thread.

Tennis Fool
Apr 23rd, 2007, 04:59 AM
Ok everybody :D Calm down.

I never heard about the orphanage. I will look it up before responding.

Halardfan
Apr 23rd, 2007, 06:51 AM
So you think mass killings would stop entirely in the US if guns were banned/eliminated?

Again I said its not all about guns...this kind of incident have happened elsewhere in the world, though not with the frequency of America...what Im saying is that stricter gun control is the logical first response to such incidents, indeed Britains gun laws were made much stricter after the horroific Dunblane school killings. Almost any other western country would see this as an automatic step, but the gun lobby is so strong in America that its an uphill battle to get things done.

wta_zuperfann
Apr 23rd, 2007, 12:54 PM
Just a brief article about the burning of the Colored Orphan Asylum:


http://www.vny.cuny.edu/Search/search_res_image.php?id=285

and another by the USA's most respected historian Professor Shenton:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/alumni/connection/connect/mycu/2663.html

MistyGrey
Apr 23rd, 2007, 06:15 PM
:eek:

Cam'ron Giles
Apr 23rd, 2007, 07:04 PM
Oh dear lord...not another one...:yawn:

mykarma
Apr 23rd, 2007, 11:41 PM
Well at least you're admitting your first post was an attempt to sabotage this thread.
:cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo: