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View Full Version : ALL Charges Dropped in Duke Case; Pic of Accuser And Her Criminal Arrest History Here


Mother_Marjorie
Apr 11th, 2007, 08:04 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/images/271454/0_61_mangum_crystal.jpg
Crystal Gail "Twana" Mangum

A.G.'s Statement Dropping Duke Rape Case

Apr 11 02:48 PM US/Eastern
By The Associated Press


Statement from North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper on the Duke University lacrosse rape case.
Good afternoon, everyone.

On Jan. 13 of this year, I accepted the request of the Durham district attorney to take over three Durham cases. At the time, I promised a fresh and thorough review of the facts and a decision on the best way to proceed. I also said that we would have our eyes wide open to the evidence, but that we would have blinders on for all other distractions. We've done all of these things.

During the past 12 weeks, our lawyers and investigators have reviewed the remaining allegations of sexual assault and kidnapping that resulted from a party on March 13, 2006, in Durham, N.C.

We have carefully reviewed the evidence collected by the Durham County prosecutor's office and the Durham Police Department. We have also conducted our own interviews and evidence gathering. Our attorneys and SBI (State Bureau of Investigation) agents have interviewed numerous people who were at the party, DNA and other experts, the Durham County district attorney, Durham police officers, defense attorneys and the accusing witness on several occasions. We have reviewed statements given over the past year, photographs, records and other evidence.

The result of our review and investigation shows clearly that there is insufficient evidence to proceed on any of the charges. Today we are filing notices of dismissal for all charges against Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty and David Evans.

The result is that these cases are over, and no more criminal proceedings will occur.

We believe that these cases were the result of a tragic rush to accuse and a failure to verify serious allegations. Based on the significant inconsistencies between the evidence and the various accounts given by the accusing witness, we believe these three individuals are innocent of these charges.

We approached this case with the understanding that rape and sexual assault victims often have some inconsistencies in their accounts of a traumatic event. However, in this case, the inconsistencies were so significant and so contrary to the evidence that we have no credible evidence that an attack occurred in that house that night.

The prosecuting witness in this case responded to questions and offered information. She did want to move forward with the prosecution.

However, the contradictions in her many versions of what occurred and the conflicts between what she said occurred and other evidence, like photographs and phone records, could not be rectified.

Our investigation shows that:

The eyewitness identification procedures were faulty and unreliable. No DNA confirms the accuser's story. No other witness confirms her story. Other evidence contradicts her story. She contradicts herself. Next week, we'll be providing a written summary of the important factual findings and some of the specific contradictions that have led us to the conclusion that no attack occurred.

In this case, with the weight of the state behind him, the Durham district attorney pushed forward unchecked. There were many points in the case where caution would have served justice better than bravado. And in the rush to condemn, a community and a state lost the ability to see clearly. Regardless of the reasons this case was pushed forward, the result was wrong. Today, we need to learn from this and keep it from happening again to anybody.

Now, we have good district attorneys in North Carolina who are both tough and fair. And we need these forceful, independent prosecutors to put criminals away and protect the public. But we also need checks and balances to protect the innocent. This case shows the enormous consequences of overreaching by a prosecutor. What has been learned here is that the internal checks on a criminal charge—sworn statements, reasonable grounds, proper suspect photo lineups, accurate and fair discovery—all are critically important.

Therefore, I propose a law that the North Carolina Supreme Court have the authority to remove a case from a prosecutor in limited circumstances. This would give the courts a new tool to deal with a prosecutor who needs to step away from a case where justice demands.

I want to thank everyone in the North Carolina Department of Justice. I want to thank our investigators, our SBI agents and especially attorneys Jim Coman and Mary Winstead for their hard work in this matter.

I'll take some of your questions now.

RenaSlam.
Apr 11th, 2007, 08:24 PM
:worship:

GO DUKE!!!

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 11th, 2007, 08:39 PM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0411071duke3.jpg

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 11th, 2007, 08:42 PM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/0411071duke2.gif

Pureracket
Apr 11th, 2007, 09:17 PM
I'm sure drudge and swam were getting kinda worried about the inability to racialize a situation for a few weeks. . . .LOL!!!!!

This'll die down with justice served(hopefully), but the men and women will still be dying in Iraq.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 11th, 2007, 09:28 PM
I'm sure drudge and swam were getting kinda worried about the inability to racialize a situation for a few weeks. . . .LOL!!!!!

You must have "drudge and swam" confused with Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and the Black Panthers who during the beginning weeks of this investigation called for a rush to judgement because the accuser was not of the same color as the accused.

But, now that the charges have been dropped, I think people are going to want to know more about Ms. Mangum. And rightfully so, since her fraudulent actions have cost those she accused a lot of unnecessary embarrasment and harm.

I hope the boys attorney's sue the crap out of all that were involved, and that the state of North Carolina pursues criminal charges against her.

Pureracket
Apr 11th, 2007, 09:46 PM
You must have "drudge and swam" confused with Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and the Black Panthers who during the beginning weeks of this investigation called for a rush to judgement because the accuser was not of the same color as the accused.

But, now that the charges have been dropped, I think people are going to want to know more about Ms. Mangum. And rightfully so, since her fraudulent actions have cost those she accused a lot of unnecessary embarrasment and harm.

I hope the boys attorney's sue the crap out of all that were involved, and that the state of North Carolina pursues criminal charges against her.Umm....the NAACP...think about the name of the organization and what it actually means. Also, if you really had any concern, you'd know exactly what the roles these organizations played in that case.

Unfortunately, just like your love of the USA totally disappears because of the race of its two top tennis players, any concern for a woman who definitely suffered from some form of explotation becomes a moot point because of her race.

Shane54
Apr 11th, 2007, 10:23 PM
You must have "drudge and swam" confused with Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and the Black Panthers who during the beginning weeks of this investigation called for a rush to judgement because the accuser was not of the same color as the accused.

But, now that the charges have been dropped, I think people are going to want to know more about Ms. Mangum. And rightfully so, since her fraudulent actions have cost those she accused a lot of unnecessary embarrasment and harm.

I hope the boys attorney's sue the crap out of all that were involved, and that the state of North Carolina pursues criminal charges against her.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

This case really frustrated me. It seems that it is PC to attack prejudge someone if they are white and "privileged". But had the accused been black. Every actor in Hollywood would have been outraged, and protesting back when the accusations came out. I have been really disappointed with the evidence CLEARLY showing no rape or kidnapping occurred yet the African American community still thinks it happened. I think it is ironic that Sharpton and Jackson had jumped on the bandwagon saying racism, when they are two "racial hustlers" themselves. Can you say Tawanna Brawley 2006?

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 11th, 2007, 10:26 PM
These men have been put in limbo with their lives and their post college lacross career because a majority of people including a majority of this board rushed to judgement and were ready crucify them in the name of any person who has been wronged by white men and by money.

Shameful.
I really hope you are ashame of yourselves.
Justice doesn't work in America anymore.

There's no such thing as innocent before proven guilty anymore for anyone.
These boys were guilty before proven innocent.
PacMan Jones is guilty before proven innocent.

I just want some of you who had these boys out to be monsters to know you have created a monster of a justice system
The justice system that was warped already is now beyond functional.
It's not able to do its job without influence from media in many cases the wrong influence.
You had your own agenda at heart now deal with the future consequences because this will continue and continue until it bites the absolute wrong person in the ass.

Maybe then you will say, OMG what have I created.

Pureracket
Apr 11th, 2007, 10:26 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

This case really frustrated me. It seems that it is PC to attack prejudge someone if they are white and "privileged". But had the accused been black. Every actor in Hollywood would have been outraged, and protesting back when the accusations came out. I have been really disappointed with the evidence CLEARLY showing no rape or kidnapping occurred yet the African American community still thinks it happened. Who are the racists here?
I think it is ironic that Sharpton and Jackson jumped on the bandwagon saying racism, when they are two "racial hustlers" themselves. Can you say Tawanna Brawley 2006?
Yeah, that's why there are sooo many "priveleged" white people in the criminal justice system?:rolleyes: It's rather easy to use your whole argument in a situation like this when the accuser is both a minority and a female.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 11th, 2007, 10:38 PM
This'll die down with justice served(hopefully), but the men and women will still be dying in Iraq.

There's something interesting about this statement.

It came out of samsung's mouth about a couple of days ago when it came to Imus.

You might consider yourself to be a paradox to samsung but you have more similarities than you might care to think about.

Also I gve you props for being the only one in this thread who hasn't "dissapeared" all of a sudden when it comes to this Duke topic.

There's 30 to 40 other posters who had pretty nasty things to say about these boys who might have to admit that they could have been wrong.

Pureracket
Apr 11th, 2007, 10:53 PM
There's something interesting about this statement.

It came out of samsung's mouth about a couple of days ago when it came to Imus.

You might consider yourself to be a paradox to samsung but you have more similarities than you might care to think about.

Also I gve you props for being the only one in this thread who hasn't "dissapeared" all of a sudden when it comes to this Duke topic.

There's 30 to 40 other posters who had pretty nasty things to say about these boys who might have to admit that they could have been wrong.
Please....that's exactly why I wrote that statement....because of Samsung's. I didn't disappear because I believe in people being innocent until proven guilty; however, from looking @ the posts in this thread, it's quite obvious that the woman was going to have a tough time, regardless of guilt.

The difference is, though, that the gentlemen are being used as a banner for the poor, poor condition of the "white and priveledged" when the emphasis should be put on the fact that they were dragged through the dirt without even given a trial.

On the other hand, this woman, because of her race and gender would have been castigated and criticized whether she was telling the truth or not.

griffin
Apr 11th, 2007, 10:54 PM
These men have been put in limbo with their lives and their post college lacross career because a majority of people ... rushed to judgement and were ready crucify them ...

Shameful.
I really hope you are ashame of yourselves.
Justice doesn't work in America anymore.

Is it really any more broken than it ever was? Because this time it was a bunch of wealthy white guys that were presumed guilty?

Google "Charles Stuart" and "carjacking" for a start.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to excuse or justify the persecution of these men - either by the legal authorities, the pundits, or the people on this board.

People pick sides in cases like this for reasons that have nothing to do with the facts at hand. Sadly, though, that's nothing new.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Please....that's exactly why I wrote that statement....because of Samsung's. I didn't disappear because I believe in people being innocent until proven guilty; however, from looking @ the posts in this thread, it's quite obvious that the woman was going to have a tough time, regardless of guilt.

The difference is, though, that the gentlemen are being used as a banner for the poor, poor condition of the "white and priveledged" when the emphasis should be put on the fact that they were dragged through the dirt without even given a trial.

On the other hand, this woman, because of her race and gender would have been castigated and criticized whether she was telling the truth or not.

Uh huh. ;) So you have a secret crush on samsung it's ok. :p

I have no problem what she did as an exotic dancer.
Make that money but don't let that money make you, is what I say about that.

I did mention that they were being used as an example for those who thought the white and privileged have gotten away with everything under the sun.

What I mentioned the most though is the policy that people are guilty before proven innocent in media and before getting any due process.

Marshmallow
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:14 PM
These men have been put in limbo with their lives and their post college lacross career because a majority of people including a majority of this board rushed to judgement and were ready crucify them in the name of any person who has been wronged by white men and by money.

Shameful.
I really hope you are ashame of yourselves.
Justice doesn't work in America anymore.

There's no such thing as innocent before proven guilty anymore for anyone.
These boys were guilty before proven innocent.
PacMan Jones is guilty before proven innocent.

I just want some of you who had these boys out to be monsters to know you have created a monster of a justice system
The justice system that was warped already is now beyond functional.
It's not able to do its job without influence from media in many cases the wrong influence.
You had your own agenda at heart now deal with the future consequences because this will continue and continue until it bites the absolute wrong person in the ass.

Maybe then you will say, OMG what have I created.


I think you are being a little extreme at least. This phenomenon works both ways. Numerous studies in psychology and the american judicial system have found that young black males (for example) are consistently more likely to be presumed guilty and punished more severely than their white counterparts. The lives of many black males have been ruined, many of whom had not much to begin with.

The point is, there are numerous flaws within the judicial system and processes. You can't say something like - 'you have created a monster of a justice system', perhaps it's part of a cycle. This issue has long deep roots.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:23 PM
Is it really any more broken than it ever was? Because this time it was a bunch of wealthy white guys that were presumed guilty?

Google "Charles Stuart" and "carjacking" for a start.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to excuse or justify the persecution of these men - either by the legal authorities, the pundits, or the people on this board.

People pick sides in cases like this for reasons that have nothing to do with the facts at hand. Sadly, though, that's nothing new.

There's a reason I added PacMan Jones.
That the NFL thought it had to go out of its way to get after a player because they didn't feel the courts could do it says something to me.

Then again being suspended as he was and not being convicted in a court of law for anything scares me.

Marshmallow
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:44 PM
And i'd just like to say, insuffiencient evidence to prove guilt does not equate innocence. Just like it is possible there was a rush to crucify the 'innocent', crucifying the accuser without solid evidence that she is in fact lying is not much better.

Maybe a bad comparison, but there was insufficient evidence to charge OJ simpson, yet his innocence remains to this day in doubt.

Marshmallow
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:53 PM
But, now that the charges have been dropped, I think people are going to want to know more about Ms. Mangum. And rightfully so, since her fraudulent actions have cost those she accused a lot of unnecessary embarrasment and harm.

All we can hope for is the truth to be known. There are still many questions left unanswered. Why did she create these 'fraudulent' allegations? What could her motives be?

Also, insuffiencient evidence to prosecute is not proof that her allegations are fraudulent. The truth is still uncertain, so just like you etc, are pointing the finger at people for jumping the gun, to be fair you are doing the same to some extent. Let's see how it develops.

And what exactly do past charges have to do with this case. Speeding and sexual assault are like mutually exclusive, and i must have missed the parts that detail her past of deception and fantasist nature.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:55 PM
Umm....the NAACP...think about the name of the organization and what it actually means. Also, if you really had any concern, you'd know exactly what the roles these organizations played in that case.
You mean the "cry wolf" role they played in the Kangaroo Court which tried and convicted these innocent men? Deja vu, Twana Brawley. So, how do you think the NAACP's role actually helped advance the cause of Black Americans in this case? Please do explain.
Unfortunately, just like your love of the USA totally disappears because of the race of its two top tennis players, any concern for a woman who definitely suffered from some form of explotation becomes a moot point because of her race.
That low-down Hooker is not the victim here and never was. And now that the spotlight will be shining brightly on her and her life by the media, you claim she was exploited. If she were exploited, it was by the same organization and people that claim to want to advance the cause of Black people in this country.

Marshmallow
Apr 11th, 2007, 11:57 PM
Oh and finally, i think much of the long term damage caused to the defendents has more to do with the fact that they have been outed as the type of people who hire strippers. Surely there is still a stigma here. They have not been foud guilty so you'd expect they can in the long run rebuild there lives. psychologically, they had did not expereince this incident individually, but as 3. Social support reduces distress.

Marshmallow
Apr 12th, 2007, 12:01 AM
That low-down Hooker is not the victim here and never was. And now that the spotlight will be shining brightly on her and her life by the media, you claim she was exploited. If she were exploited, it was by the same organization and people that claim to want to advance the cause of Black people in this country.

Not proven either way. Stripper is not equal to hooker, and if she is a 'low- down' hooker, there's even greater embarassment for the type of people who hire 'low-down hookers' in the first place.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 12th, 2007, 12:02 AM
Oh and finally, i think much of the long term damage caused to the defendents has more to do with the fact that they have been outed as the type of people who hire strippers. Surely there is still a stigma here. They have not been foud guilty so you'd expect they can in the long run rebuild there lives. psychologically, they had did not expereince this incident individually, but as 3. Social support reduces distress.

Sweetheart, this society is still run by white men and white men and men in general like strippers.
Business deals still occur with the use of sex.
There's really no bad stigma from men hiring strippers.
Boys will be boys supposedly.
There's no stigma from women going to see male strippers as well.
Usually the rationale is, they'll get all hot and bothered from that show and bring all that energy back home if they have a lover.

There is one from men hiring escorts though which is why there are some nervous people in DC right now.

*JR*
Apr 12th, 2007, 12:20 AM
FWIW, even Barack Obama has called for the legal system in NC to investigate DA Nifong, who probably used the prosecution to get black votes in his (successful) re-election race last year. This DA is a bigger whore than the stripper, who may be mentally unstable and not even know the truth here.

Marshmallow
Apr 12th, 2007, 12:34 AM
[QUOTE=Wannabeknowitall] .Sweetheart... [QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

Anyway, you know the point of my post was beyond stigma. And if what you say is true, even better. These young men should recover quite quickly.

piercerocks
Apr 12th, 2007, 01:56 AM
thank you SO much. its definitely a long time coming! there was no DNA to back it up, all just a crazy lady saying stuff. these boys have had theyre whole lives in pieces, ruined their college careers. the accuser should go to jail

Shane54
Apr 12th, 2007, 02:46 AM
Yeah, that's why there are sooo many "priveleged" white people in the criminal justice system?:rolleyes: It's rather easy to use your whole argument in a situation like this when the accuser is both a minority and a female.


Yes, you have a point Pureracket and I will not deny. But in THIS case, the girl obviously had some emotional and mental problems and the evidence clearly shows the men were innocent.

The black community was clearly taken advantage of by Mr. Nifong, in ORDER TO GET ELECTED!

I am not saying there is NOT racism, and that there is not class privilege. You are right. But in THIS case, I am just saying that the guys were innocent.

Had the accuser been white and the men black I would have still outraged. Just like in the Kobe Bryant case.

tennisbum79
Apr 12th, 2007, 02:48 AM
That was a dsigrace.
This will bring a cloud of suspicion on other rape cases.

Can this woman be prosecuted?

RVD
Apr 12th, 2007, 05:20 AM
And i'd just like to say, insuffiencient evidence to prove guilt does not equate innocence. Just like it is possible there was a rush to crucify the 'innocent', crucifying the accuser without solid evidence that she is in fact lying is not much better.

Maybe a bad comparison, but there was insufficient evidence to charge OJ simpson, yet his innocence remains to this day in doubt.Marshmallow, please don't waste your time explaining this to people. I mean, just consider for a moment who you're attempting to convince.

They don't understand that 'charges being dropped' does not equate to 'being found innocent'. All they want to convey is that these guys were wronged in some odd way.

From the very beginning, I contended that this case will never see the inside of a court room. And I was right.
For me, this case says more about privileged white American than the O.J. Simpson case did about privileged black America. In other words, these boys will more likely be considered heros and land sweeeeeet paying jobs for 'possibly' getting away with a crime. Whereas, the majority of America still believes [despite the O.J. Simpson verdict] that O.J. is guilty, and have been after his azz for over 1 ˝ decades.
Go figure.
Incidentally, if these guys were black and the woman white, regardless of how the DA handled the case, this would still have gone to court.

RVD
Apr 12th, 2007, 05:23 AM
Yes, you have a point Pureracket and I will not deny. But in THIS case, the girl obviously had some emotional and mental problems and the evidence clearly shows the men were innocent.

The black community was clearly taken advantage of by Mr. Nifong, in ORDER TO GET ELECTED!

I am not saying there is NOT racism, and that there is not class privilege. You are right. But in THIS case, I am just saying that the guys were innocent.

Had the accuser been white and the men black I would have still outraged. Just like in the Kobe Bryant case.Then shouldn't this case have at least gone to trial? :shrug: IF these guys are innocent, then let the facts indicate as such.

It's just amazing that a case of this caliber can be 'ruled' outside a court of law. WOW!

Wigglytuff
Apr 12th, 2007, 05:25 AM
And i'd just like to say, insuffiencient evidence to prove guilt does not equate innocence. Just like it is possible there was a rush to crucify the 'innocent', crucifying the accuser without solid evidence that she is in fact lying is not much better.

Maybe a bad comparison, but there was insufficient evidence to charge OJ simpson, yet his innocence remains to this day in doubt.

logic and reason are things that are about that retarded rat that is Marjorie.

wta_zuperfann
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:53 AM
It seems that it is PC to attack prejudge someone if they are white and "privileged". But had the accused been black. Every actor in Hollywood would have been outraged, and protesting back when the accusations came out.


Not so. Three young black men who play football for the University of Minnesota were arrested and accused of rape. After spending three days in jail they were released without charge for lack of evidence:

http://www.startribune.com/512/story/1109268.html

quote:


"As three University of Minnesota football players left jail Monday without being charged in connection with an 18-year-old woman's report of rape, attorneys for two of the players questioned how their clients now repair damaged reputations.

Prosecutors had until noon Monday to charge E.J. Jones, Alex Daniels and Keith Massey, release them or get court permission to continue holding them.

"All three guys are good, serious students and are dedicated to be football players," said Minneapolis attorney Jeff DeGree, who is representing Jones. "It's a terrible experience for them."



Like the privileged white Duke students their reputation has been hurt and they spent time in jail unlike their counterparts. Where is the publicity and the sympathy for them that was given to the white students?

NyCPsU
Apr 12th, 2007, 09:19 AM
im glad the charges were dropped but the real problem here is the "doubt" that will surround every similar rape case of this scale in the future.
i hope it won't but our justice system's record supports that :sad:

roarke
Apr 12th, 2007, 01:44 PM
Here in Florida a black gentleman was just released for jail after serving 24 years for a rape he didn't commit. It was proved through DNA analysis that it wasn't him and by the victim recanting her story saying she may have made a mistake. In Texas there is another black gentleman being released from jail after serving 10 years for a rape he also did not commit. DNA evidence set him free as well. He was convicted because he has a similar name as the alleged perpetrator. If you want to gloat anf turn this into a matter of race because the young lady in this case who made the allegations are black then I can continue listing all the many black women and men who not only had to go through three hundred and ninety five days of speculation against them but were actually convicted for rape crimes they did not commit. Also the young woman is not the only person in the world with a criminal history. Even criminals can be raped as well.

I believe we still do not have the truth of what happened at that party that night from the players as well as the young woman. Something wrong happened! Neither of these parties are truly innocent!

samsung101
Apr 12th, 2007, 04:23 PM
She has serious problems. She seems to have done okay at some points
in her life, and that at others, off the deep end, into troubles, lies, and
blaming others.

She should be held accountable for her false charge in some way.
As should the DA for not figuring this out much, much sooner, with
the lack of evidence he had all along.


This time, she went way too far.


These men were targeted for being white, and the accuser black.
They were painted as rich, white, and arrogant. She poor, black,
and abused. Add in the usual suspects of Sharpton, Jackson, and
the NAACP, Nation of Islam,and cable tv (very guilty of poor reporting
in my view), and it was a big scandal.

Is race a problem in America? Sure. But, it is in France, England,
Russia, Argentina, Mexico, everywhere. It isn't the same as 1865.
Oprah and Michael Jordan and Tiger top money lists, the top actors
and actresses are often black, same with music, major inroads are
being made in corporate America and in colleges, and the past 2
Sec. of State have been black, many elected officials are now black,
and Obama is making a great run for the DNC nomination as a black
liberal in America. Home ownership for blacks is at a record high under
over the past 6 years, and employment is also at record levels.

There's plenty to work on, and always will be. That's just life. We always
have to work on it, regarding people of any color. In America, that's
people of every color and background.

Our collective outrage at a comment like the one Imus made is in itself
progress. We as a nation said, that's not right. What we disagree on
is the aftermath, the punishment, the actions of public figures on it.

I think Sharpton and Jackson are being excused for their public wrongs
in racial and criminal matters - accusing others, flaming the issues -
while hammering Imus for one mistake. A mistake he has apologized
for, and wants to make right any way he can. It's likely too late for that.

The thought police are on the march.

Which is great for many, until someone questions a thought or word or phrase
you like.

Freedom of speech means we do have to allow things we don't like sometimes.

*JR*
Apr 12th, 2007, 04:28 PM
Here in Florida a black gentleman was just released for jail after serving 24 years for a rape he didn't commit. It was proved through DNA analysis that it wasn't him and by the victim recanting her story saying she may have made a mistake. In Texas there is another black gentleman being released from jail after serving 10 years for a rape he also did not commit. DNA evidence set him free as well. He was convicted because he has a similar name as the alleged perpetrator. If you want to gloat anf turn this into a matter of race because the young lady in this case who made the allegations are black then I can continue listing all the many black women and men who not only had to go through three hundred and ninety five days of speculation against them but were actually convicted for rape crimes they did not commit. Also the young woman is not the only person in the world with a criminal history. Even criminals can be raped as well.

I believe we still do not have the truth of what happened at that party that night from the players as well as the young woman. Something wrong happened! Neither of these parties are truly innocent!
I find the false imprisonment of anyone outrageous, especially when DA's delay or even deny the convicted person DNA testing. That said, your post reeks of "let whitey rot in jail this time". Its sort of like the Sister Souljah line Bill Clinton played off of so well in '92, approximately "Why don't we have a day where we kill white people instead?"

mykarma
Apr 12th, 2007, 04:47 PM
FWIW, even Barack Obama has called for the legal system in NC to investigate DA Nifong, who probably used the prosecution to get black votes in his (successful) re-election race last year. This DA is a bigger whore than the stripper, who may be mentally unstable and not even know the truth here.
It won't matter to them that Barack has called for an intestigation. They'd rather blame black people for this instead of the DA that knew there was not enough evidence.

Stamp Paid
Apr 12th, 2007, 04:49 PM
That was a dsigrace.
This will bring a cloud of suspicion on other rape cases.

Can this woman be prosecuted?

When Kate Faber falsely accused Kobe Bryant, she didnt bring a cloud of suspicion over rape cases.
This one shouldn't either.

mykarma
Apr 12th, 2007, 04:50 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

This case really frustrated me. It seems that it is PC to attack prejudge someone if they are white and "privileged". But had the accused been black. Every actor in Hollywood would have been outraged, and protesting back when the accusations came out. I have been really disappointed with the evidence CLEARLY showing no rape or kidnapping occurred yet the African American community still thinks it happened. I think it is ironic that Sharpton and Jackson had jumped on the bandwagon saying racism, when they are two "racial hustlers" themselves. Can you say Tawanna Brawley 2006?
Some things are better left unsaid. :tape:

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:40 PM
It won't matter to them that Barack has called for an intestigation. They'd rather blame black people for this instead of the DA that knew there was not enough evidence.
Hold on one second.

Do you deny the presence of Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, The Black Panthers and the NAACP fueling some of the racial tension and applying political pressure on the DA to prosecute a very weak case and Duke to suspend the students from school in this sad episode?

To place the blame solely on the DA in this case is simply shortsighted.

The entire case was tried by the media, lead by US "civil rights leaders" white racial stereotype of "white slave owners raping one of their slaves." Its the same game those "civil rights leaders" played out in the Twana Brawley Case, which was also proven a "lie."

If people are out openly and blatantly discriminating against minorities, I think they should be taken to task. But to blindly, and without remorse attack the future of three young innocent men in an attempt to make them scapegoats for this countries turbulent racial history is very disturbing and I hope every damn one of those so-called "civil rights leaders" are sued.

Pureracket
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Hold on one second.

Do you deny the presence of Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, The Black Panthers and the NAACP fueling some of the racial tension and applying political pressure on the DA to prosecute a very weak case and Duke to suspend the students from school in this sad episode?

To place the blame solely on the DA in this case is simply shortsighted.

The entire case was tried by the media, lead by US "civil rights leaders" white racial stereotype of "white slave owners raping one of their slaves." Its the same game those "civil rights leaders" played out in the Twana Brawley Case, which was also proven a "lie."

If people are out openly and blatantly discriminating against minorities, I think they should be taken to task. But to blindly, and without remorse attack the future of three young innocent men in an attempt to make them scapegoats for this countries turbulent racial history is very disturbing and I hope every damn one of those so-called "civil rights leaders" are sued.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You are so ignorant.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:46 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You are so ignorant.

IMUS: 'WHEN WILL SHARPTON APOLOGIZE TO DUKE PLAYERS'?
Thu Apr 12 2007 10:02:02 ET

Patrick Gavin with FISHBOWLDC reports on Imus's radio show this am...

Barely 12 hours after being fired from MSNBC...

6:12 AM: On Imus' radio program (no longer simulcast on MSNBC) this morning, Chris Carlin, who covers sports for the program, discussed yesterday's dismissal of charges against the Duke lacrosse players.

(rough transcript)


DON IMUS: When will Al Sharpton be apologizing to them?

(LAUGHTER)

CARLIN: I'm unaware of such a press conference.

IMUS: I'll be darned...

UPDATE 6:28 AM: After a station break, Imus came back to discuss MSNBC's decision. He said he was recently chatted with "another big time broadcasting executive" who was "complaining that [MSNBC] had cancelled the simulcast twelve hours before we were getting ready to conduct this radio-thon for these three charities."

Imus: "My position on all of this is not whining about the hideously hypocritical coverage from the newspapers -- from everybody -- or the lack of support, say, from people like Harold Ford, Jr. who I had my life threatened over supporting and all these kind of things. It all began, and it doesn't make any difference -- like [James] Carville said -- stop talking about the context, it doesn't make any difference. If I hadn't have said it I wouldn't be here. So let's stop whining about it...You gotta stop complaining. I said a stupid, idiotic thing that desperately hurt these kids. I'm going to apologize but we gotta move on."

UPDATE 7:37 am. IMUS: "The hypocrisy is absurd...Everybody knows what the deal is. And this is not over. This story does not end here."

Imus also gave a shout-out to Opie & Anthony, who support Imus on this issue.

UPDATE 7:57:

Imus says he spoke with MSNBC Senior VP Phil Griffin and said "some of the stuff that MSNBC has done this morning is frankly unethical and I've asked them to stop doing it."

But also said, "I'm not whining about the coverage. I'm not whining about any aspect of this."

"I've said 100 times: I said it and if I hadn't said it, we wouodn't be sitting here talking about it. And that's the bottom line."

Imus also said that losing television (via MSNBC) isn't as big as losing radio. "The big part of the program is radio. There's millions of people listening to the radio. At best a few hundred thousand are watching television."

On MSNBC's decision: "I understand the pressure they were under. I'm not stupid."

UPDATE 8:15am: Speaking with an African-American woman, whose son had spent time at the Imus Ranch, Imus said, "And I want to say to you as an African-American woman, I'm sorry for what I said...I want to apologize to all African-American women." The woman said, "Okay, I accept that."

UPDATE 8:19AM: Imus said that one of the "sad ironies of my stupidity" is that, at his ranch, "we sent six kids home because they couldn't stop calling girls bitches and hos."

UPDATE 8:21AM: "I want to thank Opie & Anthony...I love them and I love what they do. I know they offend people perhaps more than I do. They're good loyal guys...Even Howard [Stern] hasn't been horrible." (Although if you read this Stern show summary, seems like Stern still has his claws out against his longtime nemesis.) UPDATE 8:28AM: Imus says that he's had "a lot of big people in the media" calling him "whining about the hypocrsity in the coverage. We understand that. You just turn on the cable channels or read the newspaper, trying to portray me as some vicious racist or whatever and there's not one person talking about the other things I've done...There's a difference between premeditated murder and a gun going off...But you've got to take your medicine. I'm not whining about it."

"Don't tell me that context isn't important. Context is importnat in everything we do in our lives. But it's not an excuse."

UPDATE 8:38AM: Despite the controversy, Imus says contributions for The Tomorrows Children Fund and the Imus Ranch are "way, way up" compared to this time in the show last year, which is significant because "the money's more important this year than ever."

He added: "These bastards went after me. They got me. But they didn't catch me asleep."

UPDATE 8:44AM: MSNBC's Imus webpage is still up, with a statement and link to Imus' charities.

UPDATE 8:45am: "One day you've got a radio and tv show and one day you don't...Ordinarily we need to raise $3 million, this year we need to raise $100 million -- just in case (Laughter)."

UPDATE 8:57AM: Tells his friends, "Don't call me telling me that the coverage is unfair...If I hadn't said it, there'd be no coverage...Shut up about it...I've been dishing it out for a long time, and now it's my turn...I'm not going to whine about it."

Imus also lets readers know that he's doing today's show in the MSNBC studio.

UPDATE 9:01AM: Charlie McCord says that they've raised over $400,000.

UPDATE 9:10AM: On MSNBC:I understand their decision." "I appreciate them letting us use their studio this morning."

To "all of my friends in the media, out of the media: You can't whine about this...We wouldn't have been there if I hadn't said it."

He again called media coverage "outrageously hypocritical."

"Harold Ford, Jr. has been disgraceful in his lack of support. I endured death threats to endorse him...It's unfortunate that he has no courage."

"I'm not surprised by any of this. I'm not surprised at the hypocrisy of Al Sharpton, of Jesse Jackson or any of these people. But you can't whine about it."

"We can talk about all the good work that I've done forever, but I still said that. I'm not making any excuses. Everybody's got to stop whining and quit talking about it."

UPDATE 9:25AM: "I've dished it out for a long time and now it's my time to take it. That's fine. Bring it on."

UPDATE 9:28AM: After one guest said "kick ass," then followed that with "can I say that?" Imus said, "I think today you can say anything."

UPDATE 9:37: "We've never done this well before" (regarding the radiothon)

UPDATE 9:38: On meeting with the Rutgers basketball players: "I can't go through the rest of my life -- nor can they -- without us having this conversation and me telling them how I feel and, more importantly, them telling me how they feel."

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:49 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You are so ignorant.
No.

Reverse racism is a very real thing in today's world. And we've witnessed it with the Duke Rape Case.

Pureracket
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:55 PM
No.

Reverse racism is a very real thing in today's world. And we've witnessed it with the Duke Rape Case.
Puleeze....you'd have to first admit that there was "racism" in this country in order for there to be reverse racism.

You go on and on about "'civil right'" leaders as if you have any knowledge @ all of what these people stand for. Hell, it's soooo obvious you don't care. You're only concerned about how you can contribute to the detriment of the people of color.

Anyway, as usual, you've racialized this situation, and your free tongue and glib posts are pretty consistent with what we all have expected you to do. You don't want to see the issues, and you don't even give a damn about these men who were dragged through this mess. For you, it's a personal victory against a minority, and that's perfectly fine in your own little, sick existence.

wta_zuperfann
Apr 12th, 2007, 08:57 PM
For some reason, some here believe that only white men get falsely accused. In 1986 we had a similar case to the one I indicated above: 5 black members of the University of Minnesota basketball team were also accused of rape. All were summarily kicked out of the team and the school and the local white media played it up. It turned out that the accuser made up the entire story.

Yet, no one apologized to the students and not one ever got a scholarship to any college ever again. Their lives were destroyed because of all the headlines when they were accused. But there was not one word of publicity when the truth came out. What's worse is that the accuser, the police, and the prosecutor were never charged with anything.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 12th, 2007, 09:00 PM
Anyway, as usual, you've racialized this situation, and your free tongue and glib posts are pretty consistent with what we all have expected you to do. You don't want to see the issues, and you don't even give a damn about these men who were dragged through this mess. For you, it's a personal victory against a minority, and that's perfectly fine in your own little, sick existence.
Honey, it was your leaders, Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, the NAACP and The Black Panthers which racialized this entire fiasco from DAY ONE. And NOW, you are crying that they are being called-out on it.

You can't lay that at Mother Marjorie's doorstep.

The agenda was clear. Did Rev's Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton "give a damn" about those three young men? Hell, no. Did the NAACP or The Black Panthers "give a damn" about those three young men? Hell, no. Why? Because those three young men weren't the same color as they are.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 12th, 2007, 09:03 PM
AP: D.A. Apologizes to Duke Players

Apr 12 03:54 PM US/Eastern
By AARON BEARD
Associated Press Writer

DURHAM, N.C. (AP) - The local prosecutor who charged three Duke lacrosse players with raping a stripper apologized to the athletes Thursday, acknowledging that the North Carolina attorney general's decision to drop the case was correct.
"To the extent that I made judgments that ultimately proved to be incorrect, I apologize to the three students that were wrongly accused," Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong said in a statement.
-----------end-----------------

Where's the apology from Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, the NAACP and The Black Panthers?

Pureracket
Apr 12th, 2007, 09:09 PM
Honey, it was your leaders, Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, the NAACP and The Black Panthers which racialized this entire fiasco from DAY ONE. And NOW, you are crying that they are being called-out on it.

You can't lay that at Mother Marjorie's doorstep.

The agenda was clear. Did Rev's Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton "give a damn" about those three young men? Hell, no. Did the NAACP or The Black Panthers "give a damn" about those three young men? Hell, no. Why? Because those three young men weren't the same color as they are.
That's just it. Their appearance alone is what scares the hell out of you. You didn't even listen to their message. They wanted the case to go to trial. It's laughable that you don't even care to acknowledge the fact that these people that you named saw a situation where justice could've been miscarried. It's certainly been done before. They wanted a trial. They still deserve one.

This case isn't in a vacuum. This situation has been presented before, and this hasn't always been the outcome. The majority of the castigation of the Duke players was not by the African American leaders that you loathe.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 12th, 2007, 09:14 PM
New York Post
John Podhoertz

LET THE LIAR BE NAMED & SHAMED
April 12, 2007 --

HER name is Crystal Gail Man gum.

She is the woman who falsely accused three Duke University students of rape. Yesterday, the attorney general of North Carolina came forward and flatly declared the three young men "innocent of these charges."

That means their accuser is a liar.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

It is the policy of the news media not to publish the names of rape accusers on the grounds that they should not have to fear public shame for coming forward with word of a horrifying personal violation.

That is a noble policy. But it needs a codicil. The codicil is that if a rape accuser is revealed as a liar, her name should be spoken loudly and often - as loudly and often as the names of those whom she falsely accused have been over the past year.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

She must be denied anonymity because she makes a mockery of the very policy of granting anonymity to rape accusers. We do not publish their names so that they will not fear public exposure. But people who are tempted to do the monstrous thing Mangum did should fear public exposure.

They should be terrified of it.

They should have nightmares about it.

They should be given no encouragement whatsoever to believe they can launch a nuclear weapon at someone's reputation and escape unscathed.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum, and she should not escape the world's scorn because she is poor, or because she is black, or because her life circumstances led her to work as a "stripper."

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum, and she does not deserve to lick the underside of the shoes of hardworking and honest people of color and modest means who somehow manage to get through life without attempting to destroy and defile the lives of others.

At his press conference yesterday, Attorney General Roy Cooper said something odd about the liar Crystal Gail Mangum. He said she would face no charges for her false accusation.

He said, "Our investigators who talked with her and the attorneys who talked with her over a period of time think that she may actually believe the many different stories that she has been telling. They worked real hard with her. It doesn't make sense. You can't piece it together."

The suggestion here is that she has psychological problems. So do millions upon millions of people in the United States. And they too manage, somehow, not to spin lies about rape into false arrests.

They somehow manage not to force families of those they falsely accuse to incur legal fees reportedly totaling more than $1 million per family. These families are sometimes described as "affluent," as though the fact that they live in nice communities in nice houses means they can afford million-dollar fees.

Attorney General Cooper did a good thing by making so unambiguous a statement of innocence as he freed David Evans, Reade Seligmann and Colin Finnerty from their year of torment.

Until I hear more that might justify his decision beyond a desire not to inflame racial passions in the Tar Heel State, I cannot help think that Cooper has done a very, very wrong thing by allowing Crystal Gail Mangum to avoid the judgment of his state's legal system.

Unless he changes his mind, then, the only justice she will face is the public exposure of her name and the revelation to all the world that, if she had had her way, three young men would have been sent to prison on false charges.

Her name is Crystal Gail Mangum.

Let her name be the new Mudd.

jpodhoretz@gmail.com

Stamp Paid
Apr 12th, 2007, 09:57 PM
No.

Reverse racism is a very real thing in today's world. And we've witnessed it with the Duke Rape Case.

Maybe, but here, Nifong was the main culprit of it...

RVD
Apr 12th, 2007, 10:17 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You are so ignorant. I find it very hard to take Mother_Marjorie seriously. So much potention going to waste. :tape: I mean statements like this......If people are out openly and blatantly discriminating against minorities, I think they should be taken to task. But to blindly, and without remorse attack the future of three young innocent men in an attempt to make them scapegoats for this countries turbulent racial history is very disturbing and I hope every damn one of those so-called "civil rights leaders" are sued.And what of the MILLIONS who are doing and have done worse than this on a daily basis to blacks, Latinos, and others for decades?

No, make that for generations?
What of them, Mother_Marjorie? :hehehe

griffin
Apr 12th, 2007, 10:23 PM
New York Post
John Podhoertz

LET THE LIAR BE NAMED & SHAMED
April 12, 2007 --

HER name is Crystal Gail Mangum...


So now we are to grab our pitchforks and run screaming after the accuser.

Got to be someone.

Ever wonder if our burning need to have SOMEONE to publicly vilify is what drives messes like this in the first place?

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 12th, 2007, 10:39 PM
So now we are to grab our pitchforks and run screaming after the accuser.

Got to be someone.

Ever wonder if our burning need to have SOMEONE to publicly vilify is what drives messes like this in the first place?

Of course, witchhunts are great.

I'm just waiting for the one to get good in the White House (if it gets good). :devil:

Shane54
Apr 13th, 2007, 01:06 AM
Roarke, you contradict yourself. You go on about a black man being wrongly accused by a women and no DNA evidence! Then later you say that you believe something happened, even though there was no DNA evidence either in the Duke Case. Unbelievable! Ooops not unbelievable-Blatant reverse racism!

Here in Florida a black gentleman was just released for jail after serving 24 years for a rape he didn't commit. It was proved through DNA analysis that it wasn't him and by the victim recanting her story saying she may have made a mistake. In Texas there is another black gentleman being released from jail after serving 10 years for a rape he also did not commit. DNA evidence set him free as well. He was convicted because he has a similar name as the alleged perpetrator. If you want to gloat anf turn this into a matter of race because the young lady in this case who made the allegations are black then I can continue listing all the many black women and men who not only had to go through three hundred and ninety five days of speculation against them but were actually convicted for rape crimes they did not commit. Also the young woman is not the only person in the world with a criminal history. Even criminals can be raped as well.

I believe we still do not have the truth of what happened at that party that night from the players as well as the young woman. Something wrong happened! Neither of these parties are truly innocent!

Stamp Paid
Apr 13th, 2007, 01:09 AM
Yes, that reverse racism is so potent and affects you so much, Im sure. :awww:

wta_zuperfann
Apr 13th, 2007, 01:17 AM
Maybe, but here, Nifong was the main culprit of it...

And he is WHITE.

wta_zuperfann
Apr 13th, 2007, 01:23 AM
I find it very hard to take Mother_Marjorie seriously. So much potention going to waste. :tape: I mean statements like this...And what of the MILLIONS who are doing and have done worse than this on a daily basis to blacks, Latinos, and others for decades?

No, make that for generations?
What of them, Mother_Marjorie? :hehehe

Marjorie, like a great in the USA from the political right wing, will always blame blacks, Latinos, and others when they are the victims. But she also blames them for the times when whites are the victims even though it is whites such as Nifong who are the victimizers.

wta_zuperfann
Apr 13th, 2007, 01:33 AM
Could it be that Marjorie is Mark Fuhrmann in disguise??

RVD
Apr 13th, 2007, 02:03 AM
Could it be that Marjorie is Mark Fuhrmann in disguise??:spit: Marjorie Fuhrmann ?!! :haha:
Owww! I just hurt myself. :tape:

I will say this about Marjorie though...
She's great at combining apples and oranges and producing lemonade from the mix. :angel:

Sam L
Apr 13th, 2007, 02:22 AM
Is it really any more broken than it ever was? Because this time it was a bunch of wealthy white guys that were presumed guilty?

Google "Charles Stuart" and "carjacking" for a start.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to excuse or justify the persecution of these men - either by the legal authorities, the pundits, or the people on this board.

People pick sides in cases like this for reasons that have nothing to do with the facts at hand. Sadly, though, that's nothing new.

You're a voice of reason, griff.

meyerpl
Apr 13th, 2007, 02:23 AM
In my opinion, this whole affair is sad. There really are no winners. Everyone involved has been hurt.

Nonetheless, if I mix another cocktail and think about it, I'm sure I can come up with a joke.

CrossCourt~Rally
Apr 13th, 2007, 02:34 AM
In my opinion, this whole affair is sad. There really are no winners. Everyone involved has been hurt.

Nonetheless, if I mix another cocktail and think about it, I'm sure I can come up with a joke.

Still waiting for that joke to add on to the other joke posts in this thread . :spit:

RVD
Apr 13th, 2007, 02:41 AM
In my opinion, this whole affair is sad. There really are no winners. Everyone involved has been hurt.

Nonetheless, if I mix another cocktail and think about it, I'm sure I can come up with a joke.:lol: I'm getting ready to blend up a pitcher of Cadillac Margaritas! :bounce: I'll probably return after I'm thoroughly juiced and really start talking shyt. :haha: So consider yourself warned. ;)

miffedmax
Apr 13th, 2007, 03:27 AM
The only real lesson here is that EVERY ONE, regardless of color or gender, is innocent until proven guilty.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the unjustly imprisoned people in our country who have been released due to DNA evidence and the work of groups like the Innocence Project have been black because all too often the system is stacked against them.

No matter how sensational the headlines, no matter who shows up for the press conference, no matter who the attorneys in the case are, that's the bottom line.

Shane54
Apr 13th, 2007, 04:04 AM
You have a good point. You can't have bring everycase against someone just because someone makes an accusation. There has to be enough evidence-I think it is called "threshold" something. If not, there would be 10 million cases going on each day. That is all I am saying.

The facts that they had, showed there was no rape, kidnapping, or sexual assault. Even the other stripper, Kim Roberts(black) rolled her eyes when Crystal made the accusations.

Guilty should be presumed innocent. And yes, I know that many black men are presumed guilty AND THAT IS WRONG. I am not condoning that. But that presumption should be for all.

I don't hold any animosity towards Ms. Mangum, I think she is clearly disturbed and has a medical past with some mental issues. Even the State's office couldn't get into it.

I think the best thing if for all parties involved to go to their pastors or churches or whatever they believe for some kind of spiritual healing.
That is the only way there is hope.



Then shouldn't this case have at least gone to trial? :shrug: IF these guys are innocent, then let the facts indicate as such.

It's just amazing that a case of this caliber can be 'ruled' outside a court of law. WOW!

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 13th, 2007, 04:06 AM
I think the best thing if for all parties involved to go to their pastors or churches or whatever they believe for some kind of spiritual healing.
That is the only way there is hope.
That's all well and good but each family of the three men spent well over one million dollars a piece in their defense.

Someone must pay. And the first person to start with is the Lying Scarlet Whore. Its not the first time she's lied about being raped. And I hope the community begins putting pressure on the new local DA to prosecute her to the fullest extent of the law, so that other hookers like her will be less likely to bring false charges against the innocent.

*JR*
Apr 13th, 2007, 03:14 PM
Hold on one second.

Do you deny the presence of Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, The Black Panthers and the NAACP fueling some of the racial tension and applying political pressure on the DA to prosecute a very weak case and Duke to suspend the students from school in this sad episode?

To place the blame solely on the DA in this case is simply shortsighted....
Sorry, being a DA entails having the guts to follow the evidence, not media pressure, etc.

topspin
Apr 14th, 2007, 02:37 PM
I feel sorry for anybody who's name and reputation are permanently ruined by false accusations.

Sorrow is felt for the Duke players.

meyerpl
Apr 14th, 2007, 03:29 PM
I'm sick about people villifying the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse case, publishing her name, picture and suggesting that she should be arrested and sued. No court of law or legitimate authority has concluded that she lied. The prosecutor concluded that the evidence doesn't support the charges. There is always a presumption of innocence, but in a system designed to let 10 guilty men go free rather than convict one innocent man, (abeit a flawed system), there is no determination of innocence when charges are dropped or declaration of innocence with a not-guilty verdict.

So, the boys go free because the evidence doesn't support the charge. That does NOT mean the alleged victim is now the accused and a penalty needs to be extracted. What message does that send to rape victims? With respect to the difficulty of proving sexual assault beyond a reasonable doubt in such a system, what does it tell rape victims when we go after, badger and threaten a woman who came forward with an allegation? Roughly 30% of sexual assaults are reported now. Do we want to see that number drop to 10%?

This woman may or may not be a liar and opportunist; we don't know. But there is a much bigger picture to consider.

Pureracket
Apr 14th, 2007, 09:28 PM
Don Imus got it all wrong. The real nappy headed 'ho is this girl who tried to frame the Duke boys. I hope she's severely punished for nearly ruining those kids' lives with her racist lies.This poster is here....talkin' 'bout a thread that's gone to hell....:bolt:

RVD
Apr 15th, 2007, 02:00 AM
I'm sick about people villifying the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse case, publishing her name, picture and suggesting that she should be arrested and sued. No court of law or legitimate authority has concluded that she lied. The prosecutor concluded that the evidence doesn't support the charges. There is always a presumption of innocence, but in a system designed to let 10 guilty men go free rather than convict one innocent man, (abeit a flawed system), there is no determination of innocence when charges are dropped or declaration of innocence with a not-guilty verdict.

So, the boys go free because the evidence doesn't support the charge. That does NOT mean the alleged victim is now the accused and a penalty needs to be extracted. What message does that send to rape victims? With respect to the difficulty of proving sexual assault beyond a reasonable doubt in such a system, what does it tell rape victims when we go after, badger and threaten a woman who came forward with an allegation? Roughly 30% of sexual assaults are reported now. Do we want to see that number drop to 10%?

This woman may or may not be a liar and opportunist; we don't know. But there is a much bigger picture to consider.What a *!@* GREAT POST!!!!! :worship: :worship:
This is what I've been trying to convey [unsuccessfully] for days!!
Thanks for clearly articulating the issue. Maybe now some will take a step back and draw a more logical, moral-minded, and ethical conclusion.

Again, we will never truly know the truth since this case will not go to trial.

Wigglytuff
Apr 15th, 2007, 02:15 AM
Could it be that Marjorie is Mark Fuhrmann in disguise??

well mark furmann had a decent job. marjorie on the had shares he occupation with cartman's mom. :tape: :tape: :tape: :lol: :lol: :lol:

RVD
Apr 15th, 2007, 11:05 PM
The only real lesson here is that EVERY ONE, regardless of color or gender, is innocent until proven guilty.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the unjustly imprisoned people in our country who have been released due to DNA evidence and the work of groups like the Innocence Project have been black because all too often the system is stacked against them.

No matter how sensational the headlines, no matter who shows up for the press conference, no matter who the attorneys in the case are, that's the bottom line.I used to believe this as well, until I experienced the reality of the law. The law doesn't concern itself with the "truth". It's a business people! The law cares about its own continued existence. 'Innocence' and 'guilt' are nothing more than smokescreens. If you don't believe me, then just sit in on a few cases. Or better yet, wait until someone you care about is falsely accused and/or their entire family killed by law officials themselves. Everyone is NOT presumed innocent, and the law could give a #$!* about people of color. May we all some day wake up to this truth.

I wish people would do the research. The testimonials are all over the net.

You have a good point. You can't have bring everycase against someone just because someone makes an accusation. There has to be enough evidence-I think it is called "threshold" something. If not, there would be 10 million cases going on each day. That is all I am saying.I'm wondering why you didn't suggest this at the very moment those boys were convicted of the crimes. Could it be that much like the rest of us, you too were awaiting more info? This is specifically why I decided to wait until rendering a final analysis. However, I did predict that the case would die before going to court, However, it wasn't a prediction based on a lack of evidence.
The facts that they had, showed there was no rape, kidnapping, or sexual assault. Even the other stripper, Kim Roberts(black) rolled her eyes when Crystal made the accusations.I'm not aware that the facts indicated this at all. Would you please include a link and/or a quote?
Why are people making things up now? There was a legal resolution to the case...yes. But not a single legal document indicated that these boys were innocent. What you've written is purely based on assumption.
Guilty should be presumed innocent. And yes, I know that many black men are presumed guilty AND THAT IS WRONG. I am not condoning that. But that presumption should be for all.Okay, so shall we now talk reality?
The 'reality' is whenever a person of color is involved, people will invariably assume that person of color is guilty or lying anyway. Especially when the opposing party is white. Right or wrong, THAT is the reality.

What really needs to be discussed is how to change this unfortunate universal perception.
I don't hold any animosity towards Ms. Mangum, I think she is clearly disturbed and has a medical past with some mental issues. Even the State's office couldn't get into it.

I think the best thing if for all parties involved to go to their pastors or churches or whatever they believe for some kind of spiritual healing.
That is the only way there is hope.Not everyone believes in God. The courts certainly don't. The laws are not based upon Bible scriptures. Otherwise, "thou shalt not lie" would mean something. So how will your suggestion help the innocent?

Denise4925
Apr 16th, 2007, 12:15 AM
New York Post
John Podhoertz

LET THE LIAR BE NAMED & SHAMED
April 12, 2007 --

HER name is Crystal Gail Man gum.



Wow, when I didn't think the Post could get any more racist and sleazier than it already is. :eek: Way to start a race riot NY Post :yeah:

As to Marjorie, the KKK called and said your membership dues are overdue. :wavey:

Denise4925
Apr 16th, 2007, 12:24 AM
I'm sick about people villifying the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse case, publishing her name, picture and suggesting that she should be arrested and sued. No court of law or legitimate authority has concluded that she lied. The prosecutor concluded that the evidence doesn't support the charges. There is always a presumption of innocence, but in a system designed to let 10 guilty men go free rather than convict one innocent man, (abeit a flawed system), there is no determination of innocence when charges are dropped or declaration of innocence with a not-guilty verdict.

So, the boys go free because the evidence doesn't support the charge. That does NOT mean the alleged victim is now the accused and a penalty needs to be extracted. What message does that send to rape victims? With respect to the difficulty of proving sexual assault beyond a reasonable doubt in such a system, what does it tell rape victims when we go after, badger and threaten a woman who came forward with an allegation? Roughly 30% of sexual assaults are reported now. Do we want to see that number drop to 10%?

This woman may or may not be a liar and opportunist; we don't know. But there is a much bigger picture to consider.

Whew, thank you :worship: Finally someone is making some sense in this thread. Not to say RVD, wta superman, and PR have not, but clearly Marjorie and the others screaming reverse racism is just :weirdo:

harloo
Apr 16th, 2007, 01:25 AM
That's all well and good but each family of the three men spent well over one million dollars a piece in their defense.

Someone must pay.

These three men better be thankful daddy and mommy had the resources to bail them out. My cousin was accused of rape and spent three years in jail before the accuser confessed that she lied. I would hope these guys caution themselves before throwing another wild frat party and exchanging degrading emails about skinning women alive. ;) I believe something happened at that party but the evidence was inconclusive.

*JR*
Apr 16th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Wow, when I didn't think the Post could get any more racist and sleazier than it already is. :eek: Way to start a race riot NY Post :yeah:
You're invoking the so-called heckler's veto, that's been used to prevent conservatives from speaking on campuses, etc. because what they have to say is unpopular there. The (false) accuser was black, the (falsely) accused were white, and race was a big part of the case from Day One. Deal with the facts as they are, not as you may wish they were. :rolleyes: And FWIW, I took Kobe Bryant's side when "the shoe was on the other foot".

RVD
Apr 16th, 2007, 02:20 AM
You're invoking the so-called heckler's veto, that's been used to prevent conservatives from speaking on campuses, etc. because what they have to say is unpopular there. The (false) accuser was black, the (falsely) accused were white, and race was a big part of the case from Day One. Deal with the facts as they are, not as you may wish they were. :rolleyes: And FWIW, I took Kobe Bryant's side when "the shoe was on the other foot".I didn't. :lol:
To me, Kobe had sleazeball written all over him from day one. :devil: I mean everything about his case seemed fishy ...against him that is. ;)

Denise4925
Apr 16th, 2007, 02:25 AM
You're invoking the so-called heckler's veto, that's been used to prevent conservatives from speaking on campuses, etc. because what they have to say is unpopular there. The (false) accuser was black, the (falsely) accused were white, and race was a big part of the case from Day One. Deal with the facts as they are, not as you may wish they were. :rolleyes: And FWIW, I took Kobe Bryant's side when "the shoe was on the other foot".

Oh really, why was that? Was it a racial thing or a sexist thing? Kobe was guilty from day one in my opinion not of rape, because I believe there was consensual sex, but of fucking her in the ass when she said no. That's a real thing, okay.

With regard to the rest of your post...whateva :rolleyes:

Apoleb
Apr 16th, 2007, 02:26 AM
I haven't followed the case from the start, but I do know that it's always wrong to make statements not based on tangible evidence. So probably those who gravely and falsely accused the Duke players and made a huge racial deal about it should apologize. What's the big deal about apologies? If they make racial relations better and shut Samsung101 and Mother_Marjorie, then I'm always for them.

mykarma
Apr 16th, 2007, 02:45 AM
I didn't. :lol:
To me, Kobe had sleazeball written all over him from day one. :devil: I mean everything about his case seemed fishy ...against him that is. ;)
I agree with you. I didn't take Kobe's side either. One things' for sure, the ones that are screaming to the roof top and talking about injustice weren't doing the same to the girl that accused Kobe and lied. They certainly weren't calling for her to be prosecuted and wasn't called a bunch of bitches and ho's. The difference between them meaning Tangerine and Mammy Majorie and us is the color of the persons skin didn't matter. :sad:

mykarma
Apr 16th, 2007, 02:49 AM
I haven't followed the case from the start, but I do know that it's always wrong to make statements not based on tangible evidence. So probably those who gravely and falsely accused the Duke players and made a huge racial deal about it should apologize. What's the big deal about apologies? If they make racial relations better and shut Samsung101 and Mother_Marjorie, then I'm always for them.
Rev. Sharpton has apologized but they're to damn racist to care. The damn DA has apologized and they don't care. At least these guys parents had the money to pay for the best lawyers that money could buy.

Stamp Paid
Apr 16th, 2007, 03:43 AM
"Black women had the perfect opportunity to lash out at their most dangerous oppressors -- black men."

:spit: What a kook.

ampers&
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:03 AM
"Black women had the perfect opportunity to lash out at their most dangerous oppressors -- black men."

:spit: What a kook.
Basically.

That one sentence took away any chance of rational, intelligent, and open-minded people taking him/her seriously. tangerine_dream is obviously lacking more than one of those traits. :o

*edit*

http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif ALL Charges Dropped in... (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=10532492#post10532492) Apr 15th, 2007 11:07 PM tangerine_dream (http://www.wtaworld.com/member.php?u=29185) I love how the truth makes ignornant racists like yourself soooo uncomfortable :haha:
-----

see what I mean? :tape:
poor, poor misguided soul...

Apoleb
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:14 AM
http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gifImus - when will... (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=10532297#post10532297)Apr 16th, 2007 01:53 AMtangerine_dream (http://www.wtaworld.com/member.php?u=29185)nappy-headed racist twat :nerner:

:haha:

Just for your info, I'm not Black, idiot. So try something else.

mykarma
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:23 AM
"Black women had the perfect opportunity to lash out at their most dangerous oppressors -- black men."

:spit: What a kook.
Did you really thing that tangerine would post something positive about black people? :eek:

Stamp Paid
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Basically.

That one sentence took away any chance of rational, intelligent, and open-minded people taking him/her seriously. tangerine_dream is obviously lacking more than one of those traits. :o

*edit*

http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif ALL Charges Dropped in... (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=10532492#post10532492) Apr 15th, 2007 11:07 PM tangerine_dream (http://www.wtaworld.com/member.php?u=29185) I love how the truth makes ignornant racists like yourself soooo uncomfortable :haha:
-----

see what I mean? :tape:
poor, poor misguided soul...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

mykarma
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:26 AM
http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gifImus - when will... (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=10532297#post10532297)Apr 16th, 2007 01:53 AMtangerine_dream (http://www.wtaworld.com/member.php?u=29185)nappy-headed racist twat :nerner:

:haha:

Just for your info, I'm not Black, idiot. So try something else.
Since tangerine can't use the n word and stay on this board the next most insulting word he can think of using is nappt head. He really hasn't learned anything for this Imus situation.

Apoleb
Apr 16th, 2007, 04:36 AM
For the record, I'm sick of people hiding behind the rap spacegoat to defend themselves from accusations of racism. Next thing we'll hear is that black people have no right to fight racism as long as some of them say hoes and bitches. Utterly revolting and that's racism in itself.

GoDominique
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:05 AM
Your attempts of trolling are unimaginative and pathetic though, t_d.

Posting "women's tennis sucks" articles in GM or making these ridiculous rep comments - yes, you will be hated for it. And rightfully so.

cellophane
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:29 AM
Your attempts of trolling are unimaginative and pathetic though, t_d.

Posting "women's tennis sucks" articles in GM or making these ridiculous rep comments - yes, you will be hated for it. And rightfully so.

Oh please. The "You are all RACISTS brigade" will hate on anyone / call anyone racist (or ignorant is a very popular word) who doesn't agree with their thesis, erm... bullshit. *cough* I don't think they know anything besides "US" vs "THEM". 70 percent of posters here are nuts. Anyway, it's all very ho hum and predictable from thread to thread on this board.

GoDominique
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:45 AM
Oh please. The "You are all RACISTS brigade" will hate on anyone / call anyone racist (or ignorant is a very popular word) who doesn't agree with their thesis, erm... bullshit. *cough* I don't think they know anything besides "US" vs "THEM". 70 percent of posters here are nuts. Anyway, it's all very ho hum and predictable from thread to thread on this board.
So yout think posting "nappy-headed racist twat " in a rep is just fine?

ok

Apoleb
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:49 AM
Awww.. Cellophane and tangerine_dream. You two belong to each other. :hearts:

cellophane
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:49 AM
So yout think posting "nappy-headed racist twat " in a rep is just fine?

ok


I know you badrepped me once for not being PC (the Schruff nazi joke stuff). Or maybe you badrepped me because you thought it was dumb. Whatever. Now I don't even remotely hate anything German, believe it or not. :shrug: I was actually badrepped by a lot of people on the board, and they didn't care that I wasn't being serious.

What do I think of this comment? I don't know. Someone included "Because there are some nasty freeloading nappy headed hoes in this forum." in a PM to me as a joke. It wasn't even about anyone black. Is that wrong? I mean, if you think that was clearly intended to be hateful, you are going to take it as such... People are going to take it as hateful... but then they've taken it as hateful in the first place when Imus said it, whether he made a poor joke or whether he was actually racist. What do you expect? I think T_D was likely being glib... As for "racist twat"... there are definitely some twats. I don't think necessarily racist, but with serious issues for sure and two-faced and hypocritical at the very least. I don't really think t_D is someone who is seriously racist. Do you?

I'm sure I'll get called "Racist" and "ignorant" AGAIN after this post... but I really don't give a fuck whatever bullshit is going to be spewed about me (if anything it says something about you and how predictable you are and how one-track mind)... shove your opinions up your ass, as I'm secure enough to think for myself and know what I am. Whatever some morons on a messageboard tell me I am- :shrug:

cellophane
Apr 16th, 2007, 05:50 AM
Awww.. Cellophane and tangerine_dream. You two belong to each other. :hearts:

I'm sorry, but I don't love the sound of your voice as much as you do.

Denise4925
Apr 16th, 2007, 07:43 AM
After this display by cellophane, does anyone seriously doubt that he is a racist, although he's trying desperately and completely unsuccessfully to hide it with his usual doublespeak. Seriously, if GoDominique is appalled at cellophane and Tangerine Dream in this thread, how can anyone else of sound mind not be?