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View Full Version : PeaK Graf vs Peak Henin?


ECB043
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:55 AM
Yes another one of these threads? What a match up this would be!!. Graf is my all time favourite but Henin would win. What do you say?

MistyGrey
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:11 AM
:yawn:
Graf wins in three.

ViennaCalling
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:17 AM
:yawn:

lecciones
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:34 AM
Peak Peak peak help me. :yawn:

Stavie
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:36 AM
peak :zzz: Vs peak :yawn:
:awww:

Josh.
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:45 AM
:yawn:

Peak Peak peak help me. :yawn:

;10485961']peak :zzz: Vs peak :yawn:
:awww:

:bowdown: agreed

GrafMariaPetraK
Apr 10th, 2007, 02:59 PM
Graf

Kim's_fan_4ever
Apr 10th, 2007, 02:59 PM
:yawn:

Pengwin
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:00 PM
Serena?

Kim's_fan_4ever
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:01 PM
:supergrunt:

RenaSlam.
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:17 PM
Graf.

Joseosu19
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Graf. Easily.

John.
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:10 PM
:yawn:

Peak Thread V Peak Thread : Which is better?

Highlandman
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:10 PM
Graf in two ;)

misael
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Graf

samsung101
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:20 PM
Peak Steffi Graf would beat any of the top players of today, even
the Williams Sisters and Sharapova.

She was cold as ice, and did not get rattled.
She was a solid all around player.

Peak Henin v. Peak Graf- very little contest.

Steffi would also walk over the net and pound Justine
if she pulled one of those gamemanship moves of hers.

Stamp Paid
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:21 PM
Graf in straight sets.

LCS
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Justine would smash that german butt!

MatchpointPRT
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:25 PM
Henin

Effy
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:29 PM
;10485961']peak :zzz: Vs peak :yawn:
:awww:

:lol: :yeah:

steffiforever
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Easy Easy Easy....STEFFI all the way! score of 6-3 6-3 if both are on their very peak of form....basically on peak form i think Steffi would be everyone except maybe Serena Williams a la 07 Aussie open final....

Craigy
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:11 PM
happy easter

LCS
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:45 PM
happy easter

Kind of late but thanks for the good humour! ;)

Stavie
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Christine :tennis:

LoveFifteen
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:49 PM
PLEASE! Graf would win. End of story.

Henin was match point down to freaking Igor Kuznetsova at the 2005 French Open during her "super-dominant" 2005 clay season. I think that says it all.

Prep_boii
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:58 PM
Peak Steffi Graf would beat any of the top players of today, even
the Williams Sisters and Sharapova.

She was cold as ice, and did not get rattled.
She was a solid all around player.

Peak Henin v. Peak Graf- very little contest.

Steffi would also walk over the net and pound Justine
if she pulled one of those gamemanship moves of hers.



no, that where your WRONG.

Henin would squirt the German Frauline with her special "sauce" and 2 weeks later Steffi would be breaking out with cold sores. aka "oral h*$%#%&s*

So dont fuck with Henin, she plays diirty, and im not talking about on court diirty either....:devil: :o :angel:

henin via walkover!

Apoleb
Apr 10th, 2007, 05:59 PM
I think it would be a lot tighter than what a lot of people are imagining it to be. On grass, no contest. Graf easily. On hard, it will be tough, but I'd give Graf the edge. On clay, it's a different matter, but I'd imagine it'd be very very tight, and I would give Henin the edge.

Henin was match point down to freaking Igor Kuznetsova at the 2005 French Open during her "super-dominant" 2005 clay season. I think that says it all.

Right. Because Henin was at her peak during that match or during the whole 2005 clay season.

LoveFifteen
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:18 PM
Right. Because Henin was at her peak during that match or during the whole 2005 clay season.

When was Henin at her peak? 2006 Australian Open? :help:

Apoleb
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:22 PM
When was Henin at her peak? 2006 Australian Open? :help:

No, against Kuznetsova in the French. I agree with you.

The Dawntreader
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:27 PM
I'm going to do this objectively and score the features of their 'peak' years:lol:

Serve:

Steffi- reliable, punchy, not a 'big' serve but effective enough. 7/10

Justine- Increased pace, great placement. However inconsistent at times. 8/10

Forehand:

Steffi- the best forehand the game has ever seen. Period. 10/10

Justine- Great alteration of pace on the forehand, can manipluate the angles too off the forehand well too. 8.5/10

backhand:

Steffi- so consistent, but a little bit 'safe'. Topspin backhand only reared its head for emergency passing shots. still a great shot though. 8/10

Justine- The best single-hander in the game. period. 10/10.

Volley:

Steffi- slighty tentative, never seemed particulary fluid at the net. Still technically great( racquet always in front) and so improved over the years. 7/10

Justine: fluent, creative, daring, technically complete. superb. 9.5/10

movement:

Steffi- free-flowing and wonderful footwork. 10/10

Justine- great anticipation and tremendous defensive qualities. 9/10


Technically not much in it all, with justine IMO besting Steffi on the serve, backhand and volley. Of course i'll leave you to debate about the Slams won, mental toughness, the state of competion etc. However this is my take:)

Joana
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:28 PM
No, against Kuznetsova in the French. I agree with you.

No, it was against Medina Garrigues in R3, or even against Conchita in first round. RG 2004 is also right up there.

Direwolf
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:34 PM
Serve: =
Return: + Henin
Volley: Henin
Forehand: =
Backhand: + Henin
Fighting Spirit: Henin
Movement: =

I would say peak Henin in 2 tight sets...

AcesHigh
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:34 PM
OMG... i don't see how anyone can question this. It's Graf Graf Graf in two sets. If a peak Henin doesn't have the weapons to beat a peak Serena or Venus, then how is she going to be Graf, the greatest female tennis player of all-time.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:41 PM
OMG... i don't see how anyone can question this. It's Graf Graf Graf in two sets. If a peak Henin doesn't have the weapons to beat a peak Serena or Venus, then how is she going to be Graf, the greatest female tennis player of all-time.

That greatest of all time in my opinion belongs to Martina Navratilova! I still argue that Graf's competition wasn't as tough as Martina's once Seles was cut.

I think its too close to call in a match between Graf and Henin. But I'm going with Steffi because even though both ladies have killer don't give up attitudes, Steffi had that HAVE TO WIN attitude. All of the greats did. I give Steffi the edge.

But I'd have to say that if they played 10 times, perhaps it would be 7-3 Steffi. I can't comment on one match, because sometimes one match doesn't tell us what we need to know about two players. We need to see them play each other over time.

Sha_ra_po_va
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:44 PM
Easily steffi, 9 times out of 10. :wavey:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:45 PM
By the way, I don't normally compare players from different times, but since Steffi is who in my opinion first brought on the "power game" and then Seles, I think that she could play in this modern era of ping pong tennis (thanks Illie Nastase for that term) power tennis.

thrust
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:47 PM
I think it would be very close either way. It would have been a fascinating matchup no matter who won.

franklinbouvier
Apr 10th, 2007, 06:51 PM
Henin.
No doubt about it.

thrust
Apr 10th, 2007, 07:33 PM
I think it would be very close either way. It would have been a fascinating matchup no matter who won.

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 07:42 PM
:lol: :lol: What a stupid question! Justine would win easily... no doubt. Why is it that hard for some people to see the difference in quality between now and even 10 years ago??? Graf was the best of her time but tennis has gone up a level since then... id fancy any of the top women today to beat her, and thats no disrespect to Graf...

Declan
Apr 10th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Graf, handily. Perhaps 6-4 6-2, something like that -even easier on grass.

DavidEllul
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:19 PM
OMG... i don't see how anyone can question this. It's Graf Graf Graf in two sets. If a peak Henin doesn't have the weapons to beat a peak Serena or Venus, then how is she going to be Graf, the greatest female tennis player of all-time.

Did they ever peak at the same time? :tape:

Stamp Paid
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:23 PM
:lol: :lol: What a stupid question! Justine would win easily... no doubt. Why is it that hard for some people to see the difference in quality between now and even 10 years ago??? Graf was the best of her time but tennis has gone up a level since then... id fancy any of the top women today to beat her, and thats no disrespect to Graf...

You're kidding, right?
This is the GRAF we're talking about.
Graf, with her 90s game, would be a Top 5 player and slam contender right now.
Graf is the greatest ever, man.

TennisGuy21
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Graf you guys! How come this question is with Justine though? Justine isnt even the best player of this era, - Serena would win in 2 - she has a backhand and can handle power.

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:35 PM
You're kidding, right?
This is the GRAF we're talking about.
Graf, with her 90s game, would be a Top 5 player and slam contender right now.
Graf is the greatest ever, man.

No im serious... Graf was brilliant sure but come on, the top players now are better. Graf didnt have a great backhand at all really, Justine would easily pick that off easily. And Justine is a great mover so anything Graf had to throw at her she would be more than capable of getting back. If you just remove the achievements for a minute and analyse each of their games... you would have to fancy Justine ;)

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:36 PM
You're kidding, right?
This is the GRAF we're talking about.
Graf, with her 90s game, would be a Top 5 player and slam contender right now.
Graf is the greatest ever, man.

No im serious... Graf was brilliant sure but come on, the top players now are better. Graf didnt have a great backhand at all really, Justine would pick that off easily. And Justine is a great mover so anything Graf had to throw at her she would be more than capable of getting back. If you just remove the achievements for a minute and analyse each of their games... you would have to fancy Justine ;)

franklinbouvier
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:45 PM
You're kidding, right?
This is the GRAF we're talking about.
Graf, with her 90s game, would be a Top 5 player and slam contender right now.
Graf is the greatest ever, man.
The game has moved on since when Graf dominated.
It's not difficult to argue that while Graf may have been the most successfully dominating player of her time, that she might not have been able (even at her peak) to have defeated a Williams sister. Henin is able to defeat anyone out there. The game has moved on.
The fact that Henin is able to still run with the big-punchers is proof of her ability. Her one-handed backhand alone would have had Graf on the back foot.

Joana
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Some people seem to forget that Graf won her last Slam in 1999 and that she beat EVERYONE relevant (both Williamses, Hingis, Seles, Davenport) that year alone.

franklinbouvier
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:51 PM
Some people seem to forget that Graf won her last Slam in 1999 and that she beat EVERYONE relevant (both Williamses, Hingis, Seles, Davenport) that year alone.
Was she at her peak?
Were the Williamses/Hingis/Seles/Davenport at their peak?
No.

DavidEllul
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:53 PM
I guess this finally will again become another "justine or serena" thread

:help:

Shuji Shuriken
Apr 10th, 2007, 08:56 PM
Peak Graf...Steffi was just outstanding :hearts: :worship:

Stamp Paid
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:00 PM
No im serious... Graf was brilliant sure but come on, the top players now are better. Graf didnt have a great backhand at all really, Justine would easily pick that off easily. And Justine is a great mover so anything Graf had to throw at her she would be more than capable of getting back. If you just remove the achievements for a minute and analyse each of their games... you would have to fancy Justine ;)

Lets look at the women's Top 5. Henin, Sharapova, Mauresmo, Kuznetsova, and Clijsters. The only two that have the games and the guile to trouble Graf if she was playing well would be Henin and Mauresmo. Graf DID have a backhand, she had a 1 hander for when she needed to come over the ball, and she had the nastiest slice ever. What would Sharapova and Kuznetsova do with that biting slice backhand landing at her feet on grass?

Graf was ruthless, and tough as nails.

smarties
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:03 PM
The game has moved on since when Graf dominated.
It's not difficult to argue that while Graf may have been the most successfully dominating player of her time, that she might not have been able (even at her peak) to have defeated a Williams sister. Henin is able to defeat anyone out there. The game has moved on.
The fact that Henin is able to still run with the big-punchers is proof of her ability. Her one-handed backhand alone would have had Graf on the back foot.



One of the biggest misconception ever!!! Yes, Henin as variety but she's sill a ''big-puncher''

franklinbouvier
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:09 PM
One of the biggest misconception ever!!! Yes, Henin as variety but she's sill a ''big-puncher''
Er... Yes. She is.
But she's not as big-punching as some of her peers.
That is fact.

Chrissie-fan
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:10 PM
The game has moved on since when Graf dominated.
:) The racquets have moved on, that is. One can also argue that Formula 1 pilots get better with each new generation because they drive a faster car, but that increased speed has nothing to do with the intrinsic quality of the driver. Having said that, Henin is definitely talented enough to have been a top player in any era IMO. My guess would be that she would have a 50% chance on clay and that Graf would be the fave on other surfaces and the fave by a considerable margin on grass. Henin would be competitive though and they would have some very cose matches.

Chrissie-fan
Apr 10th, 2007, 09:40 PM
No im serious... Graf was brilliant sure but come on, the top players now are better. Graf didnt have a great backhand at all really, Justine would pick that off easily. And Justine is a great mover so anything Graf had to throw at her she would be more than capable of getting back. If you just remove the achievements for a minute and analyse each of their games... you would have to fancy Justine ;)
Graf's slice backhand must be about the most underrated shot in tennis history. Besides, although she seldom did it, she could come over the ball on her backhand too. If she were playing today, she would (if need be, and that's a big if) use that shot more often. For one of the very few times in those imaginary "peak vs peak" matches I don't think that it matters that much in the era of which of the two players these imaginary matches take place. Graf had enough power to compete with the big babes of today and Justine is technically sound enough to have been at or near the top at any time in recent history.

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Graf's slice backhand must be about the most underrated shot in tennis history. Besides, although she seldom did it, she could come over the ball on her backhand too. If she were playing today, she would (if need be, and that's a big if) use that shot more often. For one of the very few times in those imaginary "peak vs peak" matches I don't think that it matters that much in the era of which of the two players these imaginary matches take place. Graf had enough power to compete with the big babes of today and Justine is technically sound enough to have been at or near the top at any time in recent history.

Justine's slice backhand is wonderful aswell... she really knives it sometimes. But really I couldnt see Graf beating her, Justine would just wear the backhand down... shes so good at exposing weaknesses. Justine has had to adapt to facing all types of games, from the Williams to players like Hingis, Mauresmo I just think she'd have too much tools for Graf. But I guess we'll never know!

AcesHigh
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:17 PM
The game has moved on??? Sure.. when Serena Williams(and it isn't even clear that Serena's peak is better than Graf's peak) is able to come back from injury and decimate the tour INCLUDING Justine Henin, that really shows that the tour hasn't moved on much.

Like someone said, Henin isn't even the best of this era.

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:22 PM
The game has moved on??? Sure.. when Serena Williams(and it isn't even clear that Serena's peak is better than Graf's peak) is able to come back from injury and decimate the tour INCLUDING Justine Henin, that really shows that the tour hasn't moved on much.

Like someone said, Henin isn't even the best of this era.

Yes... only 2nd best to Serena, who is the best womens player ever.... im sure shes really disappointed! :rolleyes:

Apoleb
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Justine wouldn't be wearing any backhand down. Graf's slice is extremely hard to attack, and with Justine's extreme grips, it would be twice as hard to really do something with it. I think she would actually struggle with it, especially on grass.

AcesHigh
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:27 PM
Yes... only 2nd best to Serena, who is the best womens player ever.... im sure shes really disappointed! :rolleyes:

Serena best ever?? Does she even have 10 slams?? Let's wait b4 we proclaim her better than Navratilova, Evert, Graf, Seles, etc.

And I am a fan of Serena.

GrafMariaPetraK
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:28 PM
LOL graf has the greatest backhand slice in womens tennis EVER, justine's slice does not even come close, peak graf would destroy everyone on tour,she had the best forehand ever and footwork.

Chrissie-fan
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:31 PM
The game has moved on??? Sure.. when Serena Williams(and it isn't even clear that Serena's peak is better than Graf's peak) is able to come back from injury and decimate the tour INCLUDING Justine Henin, that really shows that the tour hasn't moved on much.

Peak vs peak doesn't mean much anyway. Virtually any top player is unbeatable at her peak. But how often does a player play at her absolute 100% peak:confused: It's far more important how good your average is and whether you are able to win matches when you're NOT at your peak (which is most of the time). Serena for example didn't win the Australian just because she was at her peak against Sharapova but because her average, sometimes even below average, was good enough to get her past those other six opponents.

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:33 PM
I cant believe im reading this! :eek: :eek: Serena is clearly the best ever... she' wipe the court with Graf... Graf had no competition at all. And when Seles did come along and starting winning the slams some idiot stabbed her. Nobody will win as much as what Graf did, theres too much depth and competiton now....

Steffica Greles
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:34 PM
Actually, I was watching Graf and Sabatini the other day. When Gabriela was playing well, they were actually very evenly matched. Graf had the superior serve, but Gabi had a much more crafted all-court game. It was usually Sabatini's frail disposition which led to her capitulation in grandslam contests.

I look upon this match as being a very similar duel. Graf's forehand would have been the major weapon at play, but Henin has the strength, the variety and the athleticism to contend. There are many ways in which she could hurt Graf on all surfaces. In addition, she's mentally tougher than Sabatini, who at one stage had Graf's number in the early 90s.

I pick Graf to win 11 out of every 20, or at most, 6 of 10. But that's by virtue of Graf's stronger physique, resourcefulness and steel, which, I think, even shades Henin's, a woman who is not known for being of brittle character.

It would be a breathtaking match-up.

franklinbouvier
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:36 PM
The game has moved on??? Sure.. when Serena Williams(and it isn't even clear that Serena's peak is better than Graf's peak) is able to come back from injury and decimate the tour INCLUDING Justine Henin, that really shows that the tour hasn't moved on much.

Like someone said, Henin isn't even the best of this era.
The game has moved on from Graf's era, you complete idiot.

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:39 PM
The game has moved on from Graf's era, you complete idiot.

Calm calm... people are entitled to their opinions. While we may have seen Justine and the Williams bringing the game to another level, others may not have.... :rolleyes:

franklinbouvier
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:40 PM
I cant believe im reading this! :eek: :eek: Serena is clearly the best ever... she' wipe the court with Graf... Graf had no competition at all. And when Seles did come along and starting winning the slams some idiot stabbed her. Nobody will win as much as what Graf did, theres too much depth and competiton now....
This thread isn't about Serena being the best ever.
It's about Henin and Graf.
Graf would struggle against Henin.
Henin has the answer to "baseline tennis" which is why she's so successful.
It'd be an amazing match to watch, but Henin at her best would give Graf a lesson.

tennisjunky
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:42 PM
6-0, 6-4 and that would be justine's best scoreline even if they played 50 times... no contest.

GrafMariaPetraK
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:44 PM
i think graf would be number one ,if she was the in this era of the williams and henin,sharapova ect.:)

AcesHigh
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:44 PM
The game has moved on from Graf's era, you complete idiot.

I'm the complete idiot??? This is the same Steffi Graf who played against Hingis, Davenport, Venus and SErena. Go watch some old matches.

Even well past her peak, Steffi Graf won a slam in 1999.. she has won a slam more recently than Martina Hingis. If Graf could stay physically fit and without injury, she could probably be in the top 10 at her 1999 level.

How much could tennis have moved on since 1999?? The same players are still playing.. Venus, Serena, Mauresmo. :rolleyes:

Conor
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:47 PM
This thread isn't about Serena being the best ever.
It's about Henin and Graf.
Graf would struggle against Henin.
Henin has the answer to "baseline tennis" which is why she's so successful.
It'd be an amazing match to watch, but Henin at her best would give Graf a lesson.

I agree... I couldnt see a way Graf could get past her. Justine is so accomplished both at the baseline and at the net... shes the complete player IMO.

trufanjay
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:48 PM
Justine

AcesHigh
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:48 PM
i think graf would be number one ,if she was the in this era of the williams and henin,sharapova ect.:)

At her peak, Graf would def. be #1 right now... no question. Only Henin, Venus, and Serena in top form could challenge her. The rest of the tour is full of ballbashers and headcases.

trufanjay
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:51 PM
I'm not too sure about Graf being number one. She would probably be in the top 5 somewhere though.

Chrissie-fan
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:54 PM
I cant believe im reading this! :eek: :eek: Serena is clearly the best ever... she' wipe the court with Graf... Graf had no competition at all. And when Seles did come along and starting winning the slams some idiot stabbed her. Nobody will win as much as what Graf did, theres too much depth and competiton now....
:) They said that nobody would ever again win as much as Sampras either......five years later and Federer is already almost there and he's the most dominant player in decades. Lack of depth in men's tennis? I think not, he's simply that good.

But anyway, if Serena and Justine would have been healthy for the past five years or so they would have dominated just as much as Steffi and Monica and Chris and Martina did in their day and people would be complaining about a lack of depth in todays tennis. But it's always convenient to belittle achievements of past greats to build up those of current faves.

I think that Henin is a genuinely great player and I don't think that Graf would just walk over her like some of Steffi's fans seem to be thinking. I think that their matches would be very competitive and close, with Graf winning most - but not all of them.

thelittlestelf
Apr 10th, 2007, 10:58 PM
Graf would win a majority of the time. I think many people forget how much of a threat she was even during the late 90's. 1999 is considered to be one of the best, most competitive years on tour (Hingis, Davenport, and Serena & venus were all either major threats or peaking) and Graf was still able to win a slam and get to the Wimbledon final that year. One could argue that the game has advanced volumes even since then, but I'm not sure that I agree.

AcesHigh
Apr 10th, 2007, 11:01 PM
:) They said that nobody would ever again win as much as Sampras either......five years later and Federer is already almost there and he's the most dominant player in decades. Lack of depth in men's tennis? I think not, he's simply that good.

But anyway, if Serena and Justine would have been healthy for the past five years or so they would have dominated just as much as Steffi and Monica and Chris and Martina did in their day and people would be complaining about a lack of depth in todays tennis. But it's always convenient to belittle achievements of past greats to build up those of current faves.

I think that Henin is a genuinely great player and I don't think that Graf would just walk over her like some of Steffi's fans seem to be thinking. I think that their matches would be very competitive and close, with Graf winning most - but not all of them.


:worship: I think this is a great assessment. Numbers don't tell everything... but I definitely think Henin's 5 slams are an accurate sign of her ability at the moment. IMO, there is a lack of depth today... what great players are there today?? There are two great players in Henin and Serena who are playing well and two greats past their primes(Venus and Hingis).

The matches would be close, but I think Steffi would win 7 out of 10.

thrust
Apr 11th, 2007, 12:13 AM
Steffi, 6 of 10.

GoDominique
Apr 11th, 2007, 12:15 AM
Stefi Graff.

RogerSeles
Apr 11th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Peak Graf...Steffi was just outstanding :hearts: :worship:

I still wonder why she slumped when Seles was around.

RogerSeles
Apr 11th, 2007, 12:49 AM
Peak Graf...Steffi was just outstanding :hearts: :worship:

But a study of Steffi Graf's career graph before and after the Monica Seles stabbing incident reveals a different picture, as Seles definitely had Graf's number prior to that episode, so much so that `Fraulein forehand' was low on self-confidence (in the years 1990 to 1993) and losing to players she was till then beating easily. The mental edge that Seles had over Graf disappeared as it were, thanks to the knife-edge of a xenophobic Graf fan. With Seles unable to get over that gory incident psychologically, Graf regained her mental composure and thereafter brooked no resistance from any quarter.

Knizzle
Apr 11th, 2007, 12:49 AM
Graf in 2.

thrust
Apr 11th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Monica was the only player then who was mentally tougher than Steffi, especially in Slam finals before the stabbing

Ntour
Apr 11th, 2007, 03:11 AM
I'm going to do this objectively and score the features of their 'peak' years:lol:

Serve:

Steffi- reliable, punchy, not a 'big' serve but effective enough. 7/10

Justine- Increased pace, great placement. However inconsistent at times. 8/10

Forehand:

Steffi- the best forehand the game has ever seen. Period. 10/10

Justine- Great alteration of pace on the forehand, can manipluate the angles too off the forehand well too. 8.5/10

backhand:

Steffi- so consistent, but a little bit 'safe'. Topspin backhand only reared its head for emergency passing shots. still a great shot though. 8/10

Justine- The best single-hander in the game. period. 10/10.

Volley:

Steffi- slighty tentative, never seemed particulary fluid at the net. Still technically great( racquet always in front) and so improved over the years. 7/10

Justine: fluent, creative, daring, technically complete. superb. 9.5/10

movement:

Steffi- free-flowing and wonderful footwork. 10/10

Justine- great anticipation and tremendous defensive qualities. 9/10


Technically not much in it all, with justine IMO besting Steffi on the serve, backhand and volley. Of course i'll leave you to debate about the Slams won, mental toughness, the state of competion etc. However this is my take:)

nice analysis!

treufreund
Apr 11th, 2007, 03:11 AM
I also think Graf's slice would really disrupt Justine's depth and consistency on both sides (especially on her forehand side). I think Steffi would be the fave on grass, Justine on clay, Steffi on fast hard courts perhaps and justine on rebound ace or slower hard courts. All in all it would be fabulous to watch. I would really love to see them do more doubles together (other than the exposition doubles match they did together in Belgium I believe)

CDGS22
Apr 11th, 2007, 03:34 AM
Graf...It amazed me how even if she was not playing her best, most of the time she found a way to win...

SAEKeithSerena
Apr 11th, 2007, 05:27 AM
Graf in 2 tight sets

historystupid
Apr 11th, 2007, 05:27 AM
I think Justine will win. Graf's slicing backhand will let her down. It's no more useful since players nowadays play with much more power than in Graf's era.
And also, Graf is not very good at competing with good backhanders ( just watch the way Gabriela Sabatini crushed her down in 91 and 92...) Let alone the truth that Justine has "a lot" better serve, "so much" better footwork, and "incredibly" better mental toughness than Gaby. Tell me who will win?

MistyGrey
Apr 11th, 2007, 06:13 AM
I think Justine will win. Graf's slicing backhand will let her down. It's no more useful since players nowadays play with much more power than in Graf's era.
And also, Graf is not very good at competing with good backhanders ( just watch the way Gabriela Sabatini crushed her down in 91 and 92...) Let alone the truth that Justine has "a lot" better serve, "so much" better footwork, and "incredibly" better mental toughness than Gaby. Tell me who will win?

Agreed, because 91-92 were Graf's peak years. :rolleyes:

Its an interesting thread for me, pitting my all time fav against my current fav. Sorry Juju, but Steffi is the greatest ever.

Orion
Apr 11th, 2007, 07:42 AM
Okay, I'm going to bring in similar arguments as I did in the Graf vs. Serena thread, because I think it's relevant.

Steffi's backhand is always perceived as a weakness because it wasn't the winner shot. Her forehand hit so many winners from everywhere on the court that people tend to forget that it was a truly bizarre weapon. Steffi rarely (if ever, I can't think of any) lost matches because of an opponent overpowering her backhand. She lost matches because her forehand was misfiring. In the early 90's, she misfired a fair amount (causes unknown, you could argue Seles was just better, but there were certainly serious issues in Steffi's life that coincided with Seles' dominance). Worth noting, when she came back from the first round of major surgery (after the 94 season) she used a slightly larger racket. Her forehand was at its absolute best in 95-96. The larger rackets did so much for Steffi's forehand, and her backhand has always been the most consistent setup shot I've ever seen (and I've followed since Evert).

Henin would have more success off the backhand than anyone with a two-hander would, simply because slice torments two-handers and doesn't phase one-handers as much. I don't see why people are calling Henin's serve more effective than Graf's. It's a little bit faster, but Graf was a fantastic returner, and Henin doesn't place hers (first OR second) anywhere near as well as Graf did. Graf's forehand is just a better shot in general. The volleys and movement are a little more debatable, but I'd give the edge to Graf again. She got to the net more often than Henin, and was the fastest player in history (Serena in '02-'03 comes closest).

Surface by surface on a best of ten scale, I'd argue:

Rebound Ace: Henin 5, Graf 5. Graf never particularly liked rebound ace, as it did the least for her backhand and serve, but again she's got fantastic movement, and rebound ace rewards forehands.
Clay: Graf 6, Henin 4. Graf's the best clay-court player since Evert. It rewards so many aspects of her game, and her ability to dominate at the NET on clay is unparalleled. That said, Henin's quick, and her topspinny backhand is very effective on clay (Kuerten reminiscent).
Grass: Graf 7, Henin 3. Let's be honest, Henin's serve isn't really a grass-court serve. Graf's is. Graf is the best grass-court player this side of Navratilova, and the fact that she thoroughly dominated Wimbledon even when she was slumping almost everywhere else is very telling. Still, Henin's not a pushover on any surface.
True Hard: Graf 6, Henin 4. Once again, Graf's fantastic on true hard. Her serve was very, very effective on it, and her slice is good enough (not as killer as on clay or grass, but good enough). Her forehand always was most lethal on hardcourts. However, I do think hard courts weren't her best surface movement wise. Especially front-to-back, she was always a tad tentative (justifiably, those knees did break down). Henin's good on hardcourts, and would have better success off the forehand.
Carpet: Steffi 7, Henin 3. Steffi's slice sets her up beautifully on carpet. That's what it comes down to. But, carpet's not really an important surface.

I'd give the edge by a fair margin to Steffi. There's no surface I feel comfortable saying Henin would dominate on, and the fact that Henin wouldn't be facing a nothing clay-courter really neutralizes the surface she's best on.