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VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:19 PM
I just what to see what your opinion is on Venus Williams at the moment. I saw her play the memphis final and I was convinced that she was going to do some damage this year but then came her abysmal loss against Maria [there were too many double faults from Venus], and then she lost in horrific style against T.Golovin. I never saw the two latter matches but what do you guys think is going on? Could it be the wrist? Are we in for another abysmal year or will she do something unexpected and win Charleston and thus live up to her name of Ms inconsistentcy?

I do remember someone saying that Venus had blisters on her hand against Tathiana which could explain why her forehands kept sailing wide?

But what are we expecting from Venus?

Sometimes I don't know if Venus is being deluded when shes all calm about her losses and brushes it off so easily, not acknowledging that her game needs some help.

kiwifan
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:28 PM
she lost a whole match on clay.

shame on her.

Helen Lawson
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:32 PM
I don't know, but one thing's for sure, she's sucking right now. I doubt it will last, though. I'm assuming the crappy performance at AI is due to them begging her at the last minute to play there to save the tournament, so she might not have been totally into it. Too bad her draw is bad in Charleston. If Serena pulls out or Venus beats her, then Venus could win, no one decent besides Serena is playing there, though Venus doesn't meet my standard for "decent" right now. Thank GOD I didn't go this year, what a total waste. I still got stuck with the tickets, though. Anyone who wants second tier 8th row seats, pm me and let's make a deal.

starin
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:38 PM
well you can look at her two ways:
1. This is now just her game. She's been erratic since 2004 and has had only brief moments of her old slam winning form showing.

2. She has been injured a lot since 2004 and has been playing off and on and has yet to find her rythm.

I like to believe in the second choice. The only confusing thing is how well she played in the memphis final. That result and her subsequent resutls afterwards seem to support choice no. 1.

Rocketta
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:39 PM
I'm not going this year either.. :tears: not because of the field but because I'm saving to go to Wimbledon. It's weird though not to be in Charleston right now as I have been the previous five years. :unsure:

However, if Venus makes it to the later rounds I might want to go.

LCS
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:41 PM
Venus had indeed her right hand heavily tapped...and the Portuguese commentators did say something about blisters.

or

It could have been a bad day. Do remember that Tatiana was very good, consistent this week...

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:41 PM
well you can look at her two ways:
1. This is now just her game. She's been erratic since 2004 and has had only brief moments of her old slam winning form showing.

2. She has been injured a lot since 2004 and has been playing off and on and has yet to find her rythm.

I like to believe in the second choice. The only confusing thing is how well she played in the memphis final. That result and her subsequent resutls afterwards seem to support choice no. 1.

Well maybe option one is a result of option 2?

miffedmax
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:43 PM
She lost to the Number 2 player in the world and a red-hot Golovin.

(Yes, I know her sister has knocked the snot out of TOB twice now but I happen to think that SW has "solved" TOB and matches up with her very well physically and psychologically--most other players don't).

It's not like she's getting bounced out in the 1st round by qualifiers.

She's not on any kind of slam form right now, but she'll pick up some more good wins.

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:44 PM
She lost to the Number 2 player in the world and a red-hot Golovin.

(Yes, I know her sister has knocked the snot out of TOB twice now but I happen to think that SW has "solved" TOB and matches up with her very well physically and psychologically--most other players don't).

It's not like she's getting bounced out in the 1st round by qualifiers.

She's not on any kind of slam form right now, but she'll pick up some more good wins.

TOB? The other blonde? :confused:

Helen Lawson
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:45 PM
I'm not going this year either.. :tears: not because of the field but because I'm saving to go to Wimbledon. It's weird though not to be in Charleston right now as I have been the previous five years. :unsure:

However, if Venus makes it to the later rounds I might want to go.

My tickets are Thursday night through Sunday's final, they're CHEAP for you, if you want them!!! They're Section 202, Row D.

Yes, it's strange, how can they be holding a tournament with me???

Volcana
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:45 PM
1) Lack of match play

2) She's hitting her second serve harder, which means she's gonna miss more.

3) Lack of match play

4) There are a lot more big time hitters on tour now, so all the other players have a better idea how to play them.

Kunal
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:46 PM
yea it frustrates me to see her so calm after a loss and its like that every time...i dont want her to be all pissed and self destructive....but i hope she realizes that she needs to work on some things......she already should have done that by now

kabuki
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Lack of match play. :D

starin
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Well maybe option one is a result of option 2?
most likely...but I like to believe that the way her being very erratic is a temporary thing.

Stamp Paid
Apr 9th, 2007, 06:56 PM
This is the way Venus has been playing for most of the time since returning from injury in 2004, except Wimbledon 2005. Just very disinterested, no fight, losing to the first player with a consistent weapon. I dont think lack of match play had anything to do with that loss to Golovin, or even Sharapova, and she could have done much better in both matches.

henree
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:03 PM
I think it is pretty simple. Venus's serve sucks with a major S. She has no faith in it. So her general confidence about her game is low. When Venus was at the top, her whole game revolved around her serve. So when ever her sever deserts her, her game and groundstrokes falls by the wayside as well. SHe had 43% 1st serve percentage against Golovin. That isn't going to cut it. Venus needs to reconstruct her serve. But she is as stubborn as a mule. So I pretty much don't expect Venus to do much against the top players anymore. I just root for Venus when she wins. And shake my head when she loses.:sad:

Il Primo!
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Venus had a serve until her abdominal injury in 2003.
Venus's serve is NOT consistent anymore so all her game is down.

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Venus is not doing bad at all IMO. yes she was errors galore against Golovin, but its hardly the lowest she can go by a stretch. For example RG third round 2005:o

She just needs that rthym of matches again, she'll be playing great soon i know it. Still 10-2 this year:bounce: :lol:

Come wimbledon, all these problems will be gone. Actually scratch that, come RG she'll be playing awesome tennis. You gotta have faith!:D

Slutiana
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:10 PM
she lost a whole match on clay.

shame on her.

haha i laughed out loud when i read that:lol: but you're right....shes just come back from injury...shes not invinsible...YET...lol but she could still be rusty....

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:24 PM
I just what to see what your opinion is on Venus Williams at the moment. I saw her play the memphis final and I was convinced that she was going to do some damage this year but then came her abysmal loss against Maria [there were too many double faults from Venus], and then she lost in horrific style against T.Golovin. I never saw the two latter matches but what do you guys think is going on? Could it be the wrist? Are we in for another abysmal year or will she do something unexpected and win Charleston and thus live up to her name of Ms inconsistentcy?



You pretty much answered your own question, you just don't know it yet.
Emphasis on watching Memphis final.
Did you see the first round of Venus in Memphis where she got away with playing her worse tennis?

Nope.
So even in that tournament, her focus in the early round just wasn't what it should be.

Does anyone remember a tournament where Venus has played the tennis that she's played in her two losses this year in a semis or finals in the last couple of years?
I really can't.

So Venus is fine when she's in these later rounds, somehow, someway she just has to get there.

It seems like a mental lapse.
Maybe a sports psychologist could help with that.

P_Fer
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:28 PM
She lost to the Number 2 player in the world and a red-hot Golovin.

(Yes, I know her sister has knocked the snot out of TOB twice now but I happen to think that SW has "solved" TOB and matches up with her very well physically and psychologically--most other players don't).

It's not like she's getting bounced out in the 1st round by qualifiers.

She's not on any kind of slam form right now, but she'll pick up some more good wins.

Your avatar is killing me :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:40 PM
She lost to the Number 2 player in the world and a red-hot Golovin.

She's not on any kind of slam form right now, but she'll pick up some more good wins.

Honestly Golovin did nothing special against any of the players she played except Ana.

Golovin just seems to be a natural player on green clay, she probably would have won Charleston in 2005 if she didn't play Justine in the semis.

Her record against Nadia and Venus is 7-1.
Her record against them on green clay is 4-0 and neither player has won a set against her on this surface.
She played basically the same way she did against them almost two years ago.

She played more aggressive against Ana than she did against the other two and that was enough to end the losing streak against her.

hingisGOAT
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:41 PM
She has little skill and her physical attributes don't get her as far as they did in 2001. :shrug:

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:43 PM
She has little skill and her physical attributes don't get her as far as they did in 2001. :shrug:

Hasnt that been the story for Hingis in the last 8 years?:shrug:

hingisGOAT
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:44 PM
Hasnt that been the story for Hingis in the last 8 years?:shrug:

Other way around: Hingis is the most skilled player with poor physical attributes. :)

hingisGOAT
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
But what does that have to do with the thread?

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Other way around: Hingis is the most skilled player with poor physical attributes. :)

Well you said it:)

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
But what does that have to do with the thread?

Just throwing out a debate:)

Il Primo!
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Other way around: Hingis is the most skilled player with poor physical attributes. :)

She can't even serve. Period

hingisGOAT
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Well you said it:)

Indeed. I can recognize that my favorite is not particularly tall, fast, or strong.

Can you recognize that your favorite has poor ground strokes, second serve, and no slice, lobs, or drop shots to speak of?

Probably not. And that is the difference between us.

John.
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Indeed. I can recognize that my favorite is not particularly tall, fast, or strong.

Can you recognize that your favorite has poor ground strokes, second serve, and no slice, lobs, or drop shots to speak of?

Probably not. And that is the difference between us.

And yet she has managed to win the same amount of GS as Hingis and an Olympic gold medal, something Hingis hasn't achieved

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:49 PM
Indeed. I can recognize that my favorite is not particularly tall, fast, or strong.

Can you recognize that your favorite has poor ground strokes, second serve, and no slice, lobs, or drop shots to speak of?

Probably not. And that is the difference between us.

Pardon, confusion?:confused:

Venus has great groundstrokes. great raw power, awesome depth. Imposing at the net, great mental qualities, best mover on the tour.

I suppose i just have more faith in my fav's strengths:D

be a bit more supportive of martina:p

henree
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:51 PM
She has little skill and her physical attributes don't get her as far as they did in 2001. :shrug:
You know what. I usually don't agree with you. But I think you hit the nail on the head. Venus was an athletic phenom back in her heyday. But now there are so many hard hitting athletes on the tour. That I feel Venus is getting lost amongst them. What truly seperated a top player is their serve. And Venus serve is off half the time. Venus just keeps hitting the ball at 90 miles per hour. And doesn't play with spins or play around with pace. This type of style will win you a Wimbledon title. But it won't do much for you on other surfaces. Venus playing style is Big Babe tennis. And you need to do something extra to have a chance in todays tour. Venus is becoming mediocre in my opinion. And unless she does some major retooling to the components of her game. And change her tactics. She will only be a threat on the Grass.:sad:

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Indeed. I can recognize that my favorite is not particularly tall, fast, or strong.

Can you recognize that your favorite has poor ground strokes, second serve, and no slice, lobs, or drop shots to speak of?

Probably not. And that is the difference between us.

You obviously do not watch Venus play then. She has slices/drop shots of which she mainly uses these weapons on grass. And having a crap second serve is better than having a crap serve altogether ala Hingis.

miffedmax
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Honestly Golovin did nothing special against any of the players she played except Ana.

Golovin just seems to be a natural player on green clay, she probably would have won Charleston in 2005 if she didn't play Justine in the semis.



Well, from what I understand (though I confess I've played slightly under 1 match on clay, green or red in m life) the key to winning on clay is keeping your unforced errors low. And that's what Tati did. Her consistency was impressive and that's what won her the tournament. And regardless of surface, anytime you dispatch a former #1 and two players ranked higher than you, you're red hot IMHO.

hingisGOAT
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:51 PM
And yet she has managed to win the same amount of GS as Hingis and an Olympic gold medal, something Hingis hasn't achieved

Hingis didn't play in the Olympics :rolleyes:

Despite the fact that Hingis is much shorter, weaker, slower, and younger than Venus, she has managed to win the same # of slams on a greater variety of surfaces (not the one-trick pony that Venus is), has a winning head-to-head against Venus, waaaaaaaaaay more Tier I titles, a much better doubles career, much more time spent as the #1 player in the world...

John.
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Hingis didn't play in the Olympics :rolleyes:

Despite the fact that Hingis is much shorter, weaker, slower, and younger than Venus, she has managed to win the same # of slams on a greater variety of surfaces (not the one-trick pony that Venus is), has a winning head-to-head against Venus, waaaaaaaaaay more Tier I titles, a much better doubles career, much more time spent as the #1 player in the world...

:yawn:

miffedmax
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Indeed. I can recognize that my favorite is not particularly tall, fast, or strong.

Can you recognize that your favorite has poor ground strokes, second serve, and no slice, lobs, or drop shots to speak of?

Probably not. And that is the difference between us.

My fave has thumbs that bend kind of weird when she holds a racket.

That's her only flaw. But I can see it all right. So there.

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Hingis didn't play in the Olympics :rolleyes:

Despite the fact that Hingis is much shorter, weaker, slower, and younger than Venus, she has managed to win the same # of slams on a greater variety of surfaces (not the one-trick pony that Venus is), has a winning head-to-head against Venus, waaaaaaaaaay more Tier I titles, a much better doubles career, much more time spent as the #1 player in the world...

Well if Venus plays more than she'd have a good chance of becoming number one, winning titles, and making the most out of her career. But she's happy as she is and thats playing a limited schedule. Something you're fav isn't.

hingisGOAT
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:56 PM
I wonder why Venus fans always want to waste time in the who-is-better debates? There is not one stat in which Venus surpasses Hingis, it is no contest.

As for the thread-starter's question: I answered it, and not suprisingly, Venus fans try to make it all about Martina. :)

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 07:57 PM
Hingis didn't play in the Olympics :rolleyes:

Despite the fact that Hingis is much shorter, weaker, slower, and younger than Venus, she has managed to win the same # of slams on a greater variety of surfaces (not the one-trick pony that Venus is), has a winning head-to-head against Venus, waaaaaaaaaay more Tier I titles, a much better doubles career, much more time spent as the #1 player in the world...

Yes, hingis won slams- like a decade ago:rolleyes: honestly you'd think martina is still dominating the slams...........

Hingis only won on hard and grass for her slams anyway, so thats a fruitless argument. Venus has won every title on clay going, including all the Tier 1's. Has won 6 doubles GS's, 2 mixed doubles at slam level, 2 Olympic golds, won all the American tier 1's apart from IW and Toronto. Yes she has considerably less longer at number 1 than hingis, but no worries for venus for when hingis was lingering at the top of the game in 99-01, Venus was winning titles at slam level:)

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:00 PM
I wonder why Venus fans always want to waste time in the who-is-better debates? There is not one stat in which Venus surpasses Hingis, it is no contest.

As for the thread-starter's question: I answered it, and not suprisingly, Venus fans try to make it all about Martina. :)

Ok see ya! But you do know you have an obsession with Venus? :lick:

TSequoia01
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:00 PM
After watching her match against Peer, I felt Venus was ready for the big stage. Well I was wrong she wasn't, however the skills she displayed that match are in Venus. It now appears they come and go, so I am beginning to believe pressure may make them go away. Her mechanics are so tenuous that a bit of pressure may cause her to become tight which throws off her serve and forehand. Maybe all Venus needs to do is relax.

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:01 PM
Ok see ya! But you do know you have an obsession with Venus? :lick:

He sure does. He obviously dislikes her but persists in giving us his 'views' on her.......

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:04 PM
He sure does. He obviously dislikes her but persists in giving us his 'views' on her.......

Well it's really sad. As for me I don't give a damn about Martina Hingis, but that doesnt mean I go into her threads and cause arguments with her fans. :) He/She just needs to grow up.

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Well it's really sad. As for me I don't give a damn about Martina Hingis, but that doesnt mean I go into her threads and cause arguments with her fans. :) He/She just needs to grow up.

exactly;)

VishaalMaria
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:08 PM
exactly;)

I like your avatar by the way! :)

On topic: I think Richard will tell it to Venus straight. He's not one to beat around the bush and will be working hard with her. I still believe she'll win Wimbledon. I hope she wins Charleston. She needs a confidence boost.

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:11 PM
I like your avatar by the way! :)

On topic: I think Richard will tell it to Venus straight. He's not one to beat around the bush and will be working hard with her. I still believe she'll win Wimbledon. I hope she wins Charleston. She needs a confidence boost.

Thanks, love yours too. I loved her 03 look:hearts:

Yeah, she just needs to find her timing, i think thats been the missing element. she's moving so well, she just needs everything to link with it. it'll come, i'm so sure of it:D

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:18 PM
she does need her timing back....the sooner the better....and when that happens...watch out ;)

The Dawntreader
Apr 9th, 2007, 08:19 PM
she does need her timing back....the sooner the better....and when that happens...watch out ;)

exactly, Venus in full flow. Only one person can retaliate against such brute strength:D :worship:

Rocketta
Apr 9th, 2007, 09:44 PM
My tickets are Thursday night through Sunday's final, they're CHEAP for you, if you want them!!! They're Section 202, Row D.

Yes, it's strange, how can they be holding a tournament with me???

dag, I usually sit in section 204, row c or d in the one of the first two or three seats. :p

If Serena or Venus make it to the Semis, I'll want to go.....don't know how that could work without you sending the tickets before that though? :scratch:

darrinbaker00
Apr 9th, 2007, 09:57 PM
dag, I usually sit in section 204, row c or d in the one of the first two or three seats. :p

If Serena or Venus make it to the Semis, I'll want to go.....don't know how that could work without you sending the tickets before that though? :scratch:
Did you go to any Davis Cup matches in Winston-Salem, Fair Maiden?

Rocketta
Apr 9th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Did you go to any Davis Cup matches in Winston-Salem, Fair Maiden?


No they want too much money for Davis Cup. :(

sky20748
Apr 9th, 2007, 10:52 PM
venus is fine.yes she is staying calm for the fans after the losses but believe she is banging up a few rackets.dont believe she isnt going crazy ok.but remember this is her 3rd tournie back.ok she won memphis.lower tier but still good that she can win.now she needs to get match tough and find the groove again.then whats wrong with the other girls on tour that has been playing consistently when vee and rena was out.why havent they won anything.not even a slam.the problem is this.whenever vee and rena lose there are threads about how they suck.but they arent on tour all year long.so the girls that play day in and day out must really suk then because they play more then rena and vee.people please.them girls are fine.its up to venus to fix whats wrong.not us.just support them if ur truly fans of theres if not then whatever.but the other girls need to step up and win the slams.cuz right now there are only a few that are winning.thats still on tour.mauresmo,sharapova,henin and the william sisters.so the question is not whats wrong with venus.its whats wrong with the rest of the tour.

williams123
Apr 9th, 2007, 10:54 PM
venus make's it hard to support her. i dont mind losses.., because everyone lose now and again, but it's the way she does it that makes me insane. how can one of the best players to play the game lose like this?, and to golovan too?, not taking anything away from tatiana or nothing, but she's no world beatter. venus played like she was a newbie on clay. she sux.

BrandClay
Apr 9th, 2007, 11:28 PM
Although...Venus played very poorily in AI....has anyone noticed how much better her second serve is technically? That's the one good sign I saw from her match with Golovian. She really goes up after that serve now...she even has more kick on the serve. She's been having more double faults...but it is because she is going for it instead of pushin the ball over the net. Consistency will come...I should now because my second serve was once just a slice...but after switching it up to a kick serve and going for it...I had one of the best second serves in the juniors.

K-Dog
Apr 9th, 2007, 11:28 PM
As I posted in another thread about the sisters having a role reversal, I see Venus' problems as technical. Sure, during a practice session, she can hit forehands in the courts all day. She's a pro, isn't she? The problem for her is that during match play, her poor technique shows. She doesn't believe in herself enough to reproduce the way she strikes the ball in practice in matches. She's overthinking and self-conscience about her shots. I was watching the Venus vs. Pierce 2004 RG match and in the warm-ups, Venus was hitting her forehand clean as a whistle. She was keeping her head down, was on balance and getting great power and length on the ball. Fast-forward to the match, and the first two forehands she strikes look off-balanced and shakey. It's all a mental thing with Vee. She isn't the same player mentally as she was prior to 2003 and maybe prior to Serena eclipsing her in 2002. Venus had the same techincal issues back then, but because she was so confident in herself, it didn't better most of the time. If Venus gets her "groove" back, she'll be good and winning titles again and contending for majors. She needs to replicate that Memphis Final's form in back-to-back matches and then back-to-back tournaments. Right now Venus is the Marat Safin of the women's game. All the game and talent in the world to beat the world's best, but can't produce it consistently at all and often times lose to players they shouldn't be loosing to. Idk, but that's my two cents on this matter.

TennisGuy21
Apr 9th, 2007, 11:40 PM
I was at the Sony open and got to see the match Venus played against Maria. The reason it seems Maria can hit with Venus so much better then she does with Serena is becaused Serena uses much shorter angles, and Venus hits hard and deep. Venus needed to stay aggressive and keep moving forward to the net, but she stayed back and tried to rally with Maria, and in the 3rd set she felt the pressure. Venus had the oppertunity, but it was the biggest match she had all year, and felt the pressure. Venus probably felt added pressure to win becuase of how Serena beat her so easily. --- Against Tatiana, I think Venus was playing a great grass court game, and coming in to the net very aggressively and on the clay Tatiana was able to hit a couple extra balls and hit some good passing shots. Venus had her oppertunity, but Tatiana kept her honest and didnt choke when Venus made the errors. Overall, I think Venus is fine, she is still adjusting to a new net game, and I can see how hard she has worked on it, and she is getting really good up there. I think she will do extremely well with a couple more tourniments to get into her rythem.