PDA

View Full Version : Is this true?: Serena only bageled 4 times in her career?


Serena!
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:24 PM
KEY BISCAYNE, Fla. -- It would have been hard to find two more different-looking athletes than the two women who stood on the Sony Ericsson Open awards podium Saturday, smiling and chit-chatting, the old rusty hatchet apparently buried.

If you were seeing them for the first time, which car would you take off the lot for a three-hour drive, the flashy, broad-shouldered sports utility vehicle or the nifty low-to-the-ground sports car? Both Serena Williams and Justine Henin are champions, with superbly engineered games that bear little resemblance to each other.



AP Photo/Lynne Sladky
Serena Williams, left, lost the first seven games of the final before rallying to beat Justine Henin.One thing they obviously share is pride in their psychological fortitude, which is why the final didn't feature any third-party intervention in the form of on-court coaching, the WTA experiment that began last fall and is continuing this season up until the French Open.

Williams recognizes this for the made-for-TV sideshow it is and calls a coach only when her opponent does, as a sort of mild spoof on leveling the playing field. A family visit -- why not? She's done some professional acting and no doubt appreciates the theatrical impact of a cameo by her father or her sister, both of whom served as coaches during this event.

Henin, who has worked with coach Carlos Rodriguez since she was 14 years old, expresses something close to contempt for the concept. "I think I'm old enough now to know what I have to do on the court," she said. "I don't need [Rodriguez] beside me to tell me. I know what I have to do.

"I didn't see a lot of top players using it. Maybe for players that are not as high ranked, maybe they need it, but I don't think it helps the players themselves."

In fact, most of these on-court consultations have amounted to rather banal pep talks. If ever there was a situation that seemed to call for that, it was when Williams lost the first set at love -- only the fourth time in her career she's been the hole in the bagel.

Richard Williams made his way down from the stands, notebook in hand. He stood at the mouth of the tunnel looking expectantly at his daughter, but Serena stared straight ahead, writing her own script.

"I'm all about competing," she said later. "That's the beauty of the game, is to figure it out by yourself. You know, you're down 6-0, you're down two match points and you're able to come back. And I was able to do it on my own, not by calling out my coach.

"That's what tennis to me is all about. It's about you versus the other player, nothing else."

On-court coaching has been touted as a TV-friendly spectacle, another way to build personalities for the casual fan. But isn't it more revealing and engaging to watch an athlete manage herself as Williams did Saturday?

The mid-match comeback is truly an impenetrable process anyway for those of us who have never tried to collect ourselves while in pain, or humiliated, or baffled, sitting alone in front of a packed stadium. That observed mystique is far more engaging than hearing a coach tell a player to relax, or move their feet.

Many players, male and female, oppose on-court coaching on the grounds of tradition. Andre Agassi probably best summed up that constituency at his farewell press conference last year.

"You're out there alone," he said. "You're playing a sport that requires you to problem-solve. It requires you to do it in somewhat of an emotional state. It's a bit of life there. You learn to trust yourself and you learn to push yourself."



"… you're down 6-0, you're down two match points and you're able to come back. And I was able to do it on my own, not by calling out my coach. That's what tennis to me is all about. It's about you versus the other player, nothing else."
-- Serena Williams

But there's another subtext, and Henin's acerbic assessment addressed it: the raging gender stereotypes raised when coaches parachute into a match. It sends the message that women need their hands held, and men do not. That perception is further strengthened by the fact that women's coaches are overwhelmingly male.

Women begin playing tennis at a high level when they're still young girls. Too many of them have been tethered to oafish characters while they're learning the game. Henin is not one of them; she has grown up under Rodriguez' tutelage, and he has given her the ego-tools she needs to be a self-sufficient competitor.

"The goal of Carlos is I take a little of my own responsibilities on the court," Henin said before the final. "So it wouldn't help me if he comes to me at the end of the set and give me another solution, I have to find it by myself."

Mental toughness, as Williams said Saturday, often springs from a person's experience off the court. She was probably referring to her own experience growing up in Compton. Henin, raised halfway around the world, has had her own personal challenges. These women, a world No. 1 and a former world No. 1 who wants to reclaim her place, are well-prepared professionals, not baby birds craning their necks up from the nest and waiting for a few morsels during set breaks.

At a time when all four Grand Slams have agreed to dole out equal prize money to men and women, on-court coaching is a regressive step, as unnecessary and inappropriate as the fishnet-and-stiletto clad dancers who provided pre-match entertainment in Miami. Tennis players deserve better than to be treated as damsels in distress.


Only 4 Bagels in her career? :worship:

Mina Vagante
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:26 PM
i think so

azmad_88
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:28 PM
i can remember 2 though

the jankovic one and henin one!

Slutiana
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM
nice article..what website?

LDF
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:29 PM
2007 Miami F (v Justine Henin, won 0-6 7-5 6-3)
2005 Dubai SF (v Jelena Jankovic, lost 0-6 3-4 ret.)
1999 RG R32 (v Mary Joe Fernandez, lost 3-6 6-1 0-6)
1997 IW Q-R32 (v Alexia Dechaume-Balleret, lost 4-6 0-6)

:wavey:

Kunal
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:37 PM
yea i think its true

Direwolf
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:51 PM
Venus came close last last year...
hehe :P
sad really...

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:58 PM
Uhum..and never came close of being double-bageled.

Stamp Paid
Apr 7th, 2007, 04:03 PM
Juju :o

MistyGrey
Apr 7th, 2007, 04:06 PM
very impressive indeed!

Hashim.
Apr 7th, 2007, 04:14 PM
:yeah:

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 7th, 2007, 06:00 PM
does anyone else on tour have less?

Serena!
Apr 7th, 2007, 07:22 PM
nice article..what website?

I think it was ESPN.com

wow I wonder if anyone else has had less than her...
and her one against justine was the only one she has won:)

never been double bagled:eek:

Serena!
Apr 7th, 2007, 07:22 PM
nice article..what website?

I think it was ESPN.com

wow I wonder if anyone else has had less than her...
and her one against justine was the only one she has won:)

never been double bagled:eek:

starin
Apr 7th, 2007, 07:32 PM
does anyone else on tour have less?

Ivanovic. But she's still young.

LDF
Apr 7th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Ivanovic. But she's still young.

Yep.

Though if we're just talking about players who've been at the top of the game for a while now (Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Venus, etc.) then Serena's been bagelled the least.

lucashg
Apr 7th, 2007, 08:48 PM
Yep.

Though if we're just talking about players who've been at the top of the game for a while now (Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Venus, etc.) then Serena's been bagelled the least.

Poor Amelie, I think she wins the Bagel Contest without a doubt. :lol:
I may be wrong, but I think Justine's only been bagelled 6 times in her pro career, but the last time it happened was in 2002!

frenchie
Apr 7th, 2007, 08:51 PM
Poor Amelie, I think she wins the Bagel Contest without a doubt. :lol:
I may be wrong, but I think Justine's only been bagelled 6 times in her pro career, but the last time it happened was in 2002!

Nastya was up 5*/0 against JH at the YEC 2003:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

rhz
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM
I want to know Graf's & Navratilova's Record on getting Bagelled?

LDF
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Poor Amelie, I think she wins the Bagel Contest without a doubt. :lol:
I may be wrong, but I think Justine's only been bagelled 6 times in her pro career, but the last time it happened was in 2002!

2002 LA QF vs Capriati
2002 RG 1st vs Kapros
2001 Linz R16 vs Tulyaganova
2001 US Open R16 vs Serena
2001 Wimbledon F vs Venus
2000 US Open R16 vs Davenport

You're right, she's only been bagelled 6 times :yeah:

LDF
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:16 PM
I want to know Graf's & Navratilova's Record on getting Bagelled?

Graf's bagels:

1997 Berlin QF (v Amanda Coetzer, lost 0-6 1-6)
1995 US Open F (v Monica Seles, won 7-6(6) 0-6 6-3)
1993 Berlin R16 (v Sabine Hack, won 0-6 6-3 6-2)
1992 RG SF (v Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario, won 0-6 6-2 6-2)
1991 RG SF (v Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario, lost 0-6 2-6)
1984 Berlin QF (v Claudia Kohde-Kilsch, lost 3-6 0-6)
1984 United Jersey R64 (v Mary Lou Daniels, won 0-6 6-0 6-1)
1984 Sydney R32 (v Rosalyn Nideffer, won 0-6 6-4 6-4)
1983 RG R64 (v Beverly Mould, lost 0-6 6-7)
1983 Stuttgart R16 (v Jo Durie, lost 0-6 3-6)
1982 Stuttgart R32 (v Tracy Austin, lost 4-6 0-6)

Lulu.
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:18 PM
Not bad at all

s_j
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:21 PM
I daren't ask what Sharapova's were! :lol: Poor Maria :hearts:

frenchie
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:22 PM
I daren't ask what Sharapova's were! :lol: Poor Maria :hearts:

I can remember 2 bagels and 3 breadsticks:tape: :devil:

The Daviator
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:23 PM
I daren't ask what Sharapova's were! :lol: Poor Maria :hearts:

:devil:

LDF
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:26 PM
I daren't ask what Sharapova's were! :lol: Poor Maria :hearts:

:lol: :devil:

Here are her other bagels :p

Indian Wells 2002 R64 (v Monica Seles, lost 0-6 2-6)
Vancouver 2002 F (v Laura Granville, won 0-6 6-3 6-1)
Indian Wells 2003 R128 (v Samantha Reeves, lost 3-6 6-1 0-6)
Luxembourg 2003 SF (v Kim Clijsters, lost 0-6 3-6)
Rome 2004 R16 (v Silvia Farina Elia, lost 6-7(3) 0-6)

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:27 PM
not that many really :shrug:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:34 PM
I want to know Graf's & Navratilova's Record on getting Bagelled?

When figuring the percentages, keep in mind the number of years on tour, as well as the number of events they played per year.

I know that Chris got Martina at Amelia in the early 80's in a double bagel.

Farina Elia Fan
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:47 PM
:lol: :devil:

Here are her other bagels :p


Rome 2004 R16 (v Silvia Farina Elia, lost 6-7(3) 0-6)




:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

LDF
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:47 PM
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I knew that'd please you :p

Farina Elia Fan
Apr 7th, 2007, 10:36 PM
I knew that'd please you :p

:angel: :angel: :angel:

-Sonic-
Apr 7th, 2007, 11:44 PM
2007 Miami F (v Justine Henin, won 0-6 7-5 6-3)
2005 Dubai SF (v Jelena Jankovic, lost 0-6 3-4 ret.)
1999 RG R32 (v Mary Joe Fernandez, lost 3-6 6-1 0-6)
1997 IW Q-R32 (v Alexia Dechaume-Balleret, lost 4-6 0-6)

:wavey:

Thats amazing. She won 1, she was injured in another, and was very very young in another.

eck
Apr 8th, 2007, 12:06 AM
Nastya was up 5*/0 against JH at the YEC 2003:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And?
Justine was up 5*/0 in RolandGarros 06 :rolleyes:

DomenicDemaria
Apr 8th, 2007, 12:11 AM
Mary has beaten Martina 6-0, 6-0 :devil:

lecciones
Apr 8th, 2007, 09:47 AM
Mary has beaten Martina 6-0, 6-0 :devil:

I was just going to say that, I'll input her bagels here:

1994 - 1 total-1

VS, I, SWITZERLAND, October 9, 1994, $ 750,000 , CARPET (I)
R16 H2H (2) PIERCE, MARY 5 L 6-4 6-0

1995 - 3 total - 4

VS, II, GERMANY, May 7, 1995, $ 430,000 , CLAY (O)
F H2H (2) MARTINEZ, CONCHITA 4 L 6-1 6-0

VS, I, CANADA, August 20, 1995, $ 806,250 , HARD (O)
R16 H2H (5) PIERCE, MARY 5 L 6-0 6-0

1996 - 3 total - 7

VS, I, JAPAN, February 4, 1996, $ 926,250 , CARPET (I)
S H2H (7) MAJOLI, IVA 8 L 3-6 6-3 6-0

VS, CH, USA, NY, November 24, 1996, $ 2,000,000 , CARPET (I)
F H2H (1) GRAF, STEFFI L 6-3 4-6 6-0 4-6 6-0

1997 - 1 total - 8

GS, FRANCE, June 8, 1997, $ 4,566,003 , CLAY (O)
R16 H2H (16) PAULUS, BARBARA 18 W 6-3 0-6 6-0

1998 - 1 total - 9

VS, II, USA, PA, November 15, 1998, $ 450,000 , CARPET (I)
Q H2H GRAF, STEFFI 17 L 6-2 4-6 6-0

1999 - 1 total - 10

GS, GREAT BRITAIN, July 4, 1999, $ 4,732,303 , GRASS (O)
R128 H2H DOKIC, JELENA 129 L 6-2 6-0

2000 - 3 total - 13

VS, I, USA, CA, March 19, 2000, $ 2,000,000 , HARD (O)
F H2H (2) DAVENPORT, LINDSAY 2 L 4-6 6-4 6-0

GS, FRANCE, June 11, 2000, $ 4,141,085 , CLAY (O)
R16 H2H DRAGOMIR, RUXANDRA 32 W 6-3 0-6 6-1

VS, I, CANADA, August 20, 2000, $ 1,080,000 , HARD (O)
F H2H (4) WILLIAMS, SERENA 7 W 0-6 6-3 3-0 ret

2001 - 3 total - 16

VS, I, USA, SC, April 22, 2001, $ 1,200,000 , CLAY (O)
F H2H (2) CAPRIATI, JENNIFER USA 5 L 6-0 4-6 6-4

VS, I, GERMANY, May 13, 2001, $ 1,185,000 , CLAY (O)
S H2H (4) MAURESMO, AMELIE FRA 9 L 2-6 6-0 6-4

VS, II, GERMANY, October 14, 2001, $ 565,000 , HARD (I)
R16 H2H MALEEVA, MAGDALENA BUL 16 W 0-6 6-4 6-2

2002 - 2 total - 18

VS, I, USA, FL, April 1, 2002, $ 2,860,000 , HARD (O)
Q H2H (8) WILLIAMS, SERENA USA 9 L 6-4 6-0

VS, II, USA, CT, August 24, 2002, $ 585,000 , HARD (O)
Q H2H MYSKINA, ANASTASIA RUS 16 L 6-7(2) 6-4 6-0

2006 - 2 total - 20

VS, I, ITALY, May 21, 2006, $ 1,340,000 , CLAY (O)
S H2H (9) WILLIAMS, VENUS USA 12 W 0-6 6-3 6-3

VS, IV, KOREA, October 1, 2006, $ 145,000 , HARD (O)
R16 H2H MIRZA, SANIA IND 59 L 4-6 6-0 6-4

So for Active players she is the leader in being bageled. She has been bageled 20 times in her career, sustaining one doubles bagel loss to Mary Pierce when she was around 14 years old. But thats okay because Martina has given out 117 bagels and 230 breadsticks to other players :)