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View Full Version : Where is Venus's pride? She needs to admit she needs help


Morrissey
Apr 6th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Tracy Austin got one thing right do not expect Venus to have the type of comeback Serena has had. This year will be all about Serena and Venus as usual will be the losing sister in the shadows watching on clapping as Serena wins big titles. I wonder how Venus feels being the loser sister? I mean, I can't help that she must be a bit envious that Serena is winning everything while she loses to people like Golivin.

Where is Venus's pride? Eventually you would think a fire would light within her?
Today's result proves that Venus will not be on top anytime soon if ever. I am sure Serena would NEVER lose to Golivin. As I predicted Venus lost to Golivin again. The loss underscores the big difference between Venus and Serena's games. Venus game is just too erratic and not smooth like Serena's.
Serena's game is flawless when its on and even when its not on. Serena is smart enough to pull back and be patient. Venus is too impatient on clay. Don't expect Venus to do well at the French Open this year expect the same result as she usually has.

Serena went to Nick's academy to work on her game during her comeback. I think Venus depends on Richard too much. Serena seems to be more independent.Nick helped Serena out. So why doesn't Venus find an additional support someone from the outside that can help her? Steffi Graf hired a swiss coach many years back because she realized her father Peter could only take her so far. I don't see why Venus cannot consult with someone else? Why not ask Billie Jean King to be a part time coach? Martina Navratilova went to Billie Jean for assistance and she won Wimbledon in 1990. Venus serve is her weakness and she needs to tighten up her strokes. I just don't see Venus coming back until she grows up, admits her weaknesses and corrects them.

starin
Apr 6th, 2007, 06:58 PM
Tracy Austin got one thing right do not expect Venus to have the type of comeback Serena has had. This year will be all about Serena and Venus as usual will be the losing sister in the shadows watching on clapping as Serena wins big titles. I wonder how Venus feels being the loser sister? I mean, I can't help that she must be a bit envious that Serena is winning everything while she loses to people like Golivin.

Where is Venus's pride? Eventually you would think a fire would light within her?
Today's result proves that Venus will not be on top anytime soon if ever. I am sure Serena would NEVER lose to Golivin. As I predicted Venus lost to Golivin again. The loss underscores the big difference between Venus and Serena's games. Venus game is just too erratic and not smooth like Serena's.
Serena's game is flawless when its on and even when its not on. Serena is smart enough to pull back and be patient. Venus is too impatient on clay. Don't expect Venus to do well at the French Open this year expect the same result as she usually has.

Serena went to Nick's academy to work on her game during her comeback. I think Venus depends on Richard too much. Serena seems to be more independent.Nick helped Serena out. So why doesn't Venus find an additional support someone from the outside that can help her? Steffi Graf hired a swiss coach many years back because she realized her father Peter could only take her so far. I don't see why Venus cannot consult with someone else? Why not ask Billie Jean King to be a part time coach? Martina Navratilova went to Billie Jean for assistance and she won Wimbledon in 1990. Venus serve is her weakness and she needs to tighten up her strokes. I just don't see Venus coming back until she grows up, admits her weaknesses and corrects them.

You know I've said and thought the same thing. The real question what is wrong with Venus? I don't think she has any control anymore over how well she plays. Sometimes she can come out and her serve is clicking and her forehand is on fire and she is like a monster out there. She seeems untouchable. But the majority of times she's erratic and lost on court. I think she tries to add more spin and tries to play more carefully but still ends up missing a lot. I don't know what it is. She seems doomed to fall to the wayside while Serena storms the tour. However, I will say this, any opponent playing Venus better be careful cuz no matter how high they are ranked or how well they are playing if Venus' game suddenly falls into place they are toast.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:05 PM
I really don't think it has anything to do with that.
Venus has to admit to herself that she isn't the same player in the earlier rounds of a tournament than she is in a later round and then do something about it.
Everyone on tour knows by now if you're going to get a Williams sister in a draw, hopefully it's Venus and hopefully it's in an earlier round where she's not focused.

cellophane
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:13 PM
What???? The sea hag got something right?

BrandClay
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:15 PM
can't wait to see Venus win big again! And I can't wait to see your faces. You can still see glimpses of the old VEE in her match today...but she is having problems with her unforced errors and her rushing points. She will be just fine...don't you guys worry! She's healty and if she stay that way...she will WIN! Just mark my words.

hingisGOAT
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

frontier
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:19 PM
venus took a longtime to come from injury,this is how lindsay played when she came back from injury.she kept on playing and her game finally clicked she went through coaches every three months.venus should keep on playing it will come together sometime in the beginning of summer.
i am not going to bash venus because i am her biggest fan but i know its going to come together in the summer.venus is going to struggle for sure but something is going to click during the summer.serena is going to sail throughout but venus is going to rise during the summer.her problems are not physical they are mental.
she should be patient not try to compete with serena and she will be okay.
i have a strong feeling venus is going to shine in the summer and win usa open.

Brooklyn90
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

Yeah that's why she has 7 Clay titles and make the RG Finals :rolleyes:

Tennisaddict
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Stop comparing Venus to Serena. Venus needs more time to find her game.
Her loss today was a bad one in the way she lost but this is her third tournament back from injury and the first on green clay.

I still think she can have a good season but she has to find the consistency back in her game and match toughness. She will be fine when she does that.

hingisGOAT
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Yeah that's why she has 7 Clay titles and make the RG Finals :rolleyes:

Yeah she made the RG finals beating Clarissa Fernandez in the semifnals :haha: And most of those clay titles were very, very weak... such as in 2004 or that Tier III title she won.

BrandClay
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:24 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

WOW, what an idiot!

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

lol yes because in 2004 she lost all her clay matches right :tape: you are just retarded

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:27 PM
This is only her 3rd tournament, and first on this surface...Venus is the kind of player (barring grass) who needs to play herself in form/shape.

I know that this loss will help her for Charleston, because she'll be looking to avoid the things she did wrong here.

On the positive note, she didn't hit 6+ doubles today :yeah:

So, I'm sure that by the time that RG rolls around, if she plays all of the tournies that she signed up for (Charleston, Warsaw, Istanbul) she should be fine :yeah:

Direwolf
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:27 PM
she was with the same coach when she beat Peer in Memphis
playing FLAWLESS tennis...
she was perfect back then...
what confused is that, suddenly its all gone...
that Memphis player in Venus has gone once again...

one good thing is that she is getting more match experience...
but by this age, she is already experience..
she's schedule to play
3 more tournies before the FO...
and even though she gets to the QFs SFs or even the 4R...
it wont be that bad...

its the Wimbledon that matters to her most anyway...

Brooklyn90
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:28 PM
Yeah she made the RG finals beating Clarissa Fernandez in the semifnals :haha: And most of those clay titles were very, very weak... such as in 2004 or that Tier III title she won.

What about the Charleston 2002 title where she beat Justine in the final, and she won their again in 04. :rolleyes:

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:30 PM
What about the Charleston 2002 title where she beat Justine in the final, and she won their again in 04. :rolleyes:

:secret: 2002 was Amelia Island

Tennisaddict
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

:lol:

I know that´s what you have convinced yourself about Venus but you´re only making a fool of yourself.

Venus is a champion and she has proven that she is one of the most talented players on tour. She will be back in time.

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Yeah she made the RG finals beating Clarissa Fernandez in the semifnals :haha: And most of those clay titles were very, very weak... such as in 2004 or that Tier III title she won.

I don't think you have seen any of Venus's matches from the clay season 04. Apart from RG after she turned her ankle in Berlin, she was pretty much unbeatable. Sprem played the match of her life against her at the Berlin semi and Venus still got the win. Id like to have seen players like Henin and others beat Karolina that day. She would have knocked them off the court easily

hingisGOAT
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:35 PM
:haha:

SAEKeithSerena
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Stop comparing Venus to Serena. Venus needs more time to find her game.
Her loss today was a bad one in the way she lost but this is her third tournament back from injury and the first on green clay.

I still think she can have a good season but she has to find the consistency back in her game and match toughness. She will be fine when she does that.


agreed. but it will be Serena's year, nonetheless

piercerocks
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:38 PM
venus just needs to get that intensity back where she needs it, hit the ball in, and juice up her first serve. give her some time.. its only her 3rd tournament this year.

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:39 PM
:haha:

Sad-Act :lol: you are pathetic, do you actually think that if you say it enough times, Hingis will somehow be better than Venus :haha:

Brooklyn90
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:41 PM
:secret: 2002 was Amelia Island

thanks :lol: :wavey:

Tennisaddict
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:43 PM
agreed. but it will be Serena's year, nonetheless

We will see ;)

hingisGOAT
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Sad-Act :lol: you are pathetic, do you actually think that if you say it enough times, Hingis will somehow be better than Venus :haha:

Did I say that once in this thread? :weirdo:

I wouldn't waste my time stating something so universally agreed upon :shrug:

Slutiana
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:48 PM
She needs to play serena..either she'll fight like she's never fought before to come out of serena's shadow or she will get battered and will realise that she HAS to make changes if she wants to get back to the top...

mykarma
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:50 PM
venus took a longtime to come from injury,this is how lindsay played when she came back from injury.she kept on playing and her game finally clicked she went through coaches every three months.venus should keep on playing it will come together sometime in the beginning of summer.
i am not going to bash venus because i am her biggest fan but i know its going to come together in the summer.venus is going to struggle for sure but something is going to click during the summer.serena is going to sail throughout but venus is going to rise during the summer.her problems are not physical they are mental.
she should be patient not try to compete with serena and she will be okay.
i have a strong feeling venus is going to shine in the summer and win usa open.
When she starts winning and she will, these same naysayers will be playing her drum just like some did about Serena. It's not as though Vee has played that many matches. People just need to give her time.

winone23
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:50 PM
HeylookI'mPathetic just can't get enough of Venus. :help: :help: :help:

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Did I say that once in this thread? :weirdo:

I wouldn't waste my time stating something so universally agreed upon :shrug:

We all know thats what your hinting at, well lets see uhhhmmm who has a better shot at winning a slam this year Venus or Hingis :scratch: hmmmmm thats a doooozy, oh no wait its not Hingis will never come close to winning one again and Venus still has it in her to win another :haha: why do you even bother posting in these threads. Your just sad. Do you think someone like Venus actually cares what you think. Lets be fair anyone who thinks thats nothing Venus has done is "Great" really doesn't know tennis whatsoever :tape: :lol: its almost funny actually

mykarma
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:53 PM
WOW, what an idiot!
:lol::lol::lol:

Craigy
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:53 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

Ok Im not even a Venus fan, but seriously you need to wise up. :lol:

mykarma
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:55 PM
What about the Charleston 2002 title where she beat Justine in the final, and she won their again in 04. :rolleyes:
He's an idiot so don't try and reason with him. No one but a fool would make a statement such as he did.

hingisGOAT
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:55 PM
We all know thats what your hinting at, well lets see uhhhmmm who has a better shot at winning a slam this year Venus or Hingis :scratch: hmmmmm thats a doooozy, oh no wait its not Hingis will never come close to winning one again and Venus still has it in her to win another :haha: why do you even bother posting in these threads. Your just sad. Do you think someone like Venus actually cares what you think. Lets be fair anyone who thinks thats nothing Venus has done is "Great" really doesn't know tennis whatsoever :tape: :lol: its almost funny actually

:haha: ... I never mentioned Hingis once... :weirdo:

Paranoid much? :secret:

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:57 PM
:haha: ... I never mentioned Hingis once... :weirdo:

Paranoid much? :secret:

:rolleyes: why are you still posting everyone knows whatever you type is just rubbish :shrug:

winone23
Apr 6th, 2007, 07:59 PM
He's an idiot so don't try and reason with him. No one but a fool would make a statement such as he did.

So true! I should sell heylookI'mpathetic some gold on ebay I would make a killing.

trufanjay
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:01 PM
I think we need to realize what type of player Venus is. She is very very unpredictable. (We all know that) Even though she won her first event back she needs a longer time to get back into consistent form. There is really no reason for this digusting play but that's Venus. Like I said before I am tired of waiting for Wimbledon to see Venus play well.

I think it's become quite obvious that it isn't really her game that's the problem, she just needs to get things right upstairs. It is going to take her a while to build confidence. If there were any questions about Serena at the beginning of the year they have all been answered. Venus on the other hand, no. Can she play well and keep the errors down? Yes. Is she going to do it consistently? Don't know. The 2001 Venus would have broken Golovin twice and would have easily won the third set. But Venus is going to need a lot of time to get that form back. Serena has gotten hers back already.

Venus should be at the point now where she realizes that she has nothing to lose and that she must improve with each match. But all of her matches have been up and down. Every player will have a few bad matches. But if Venus is in such a rush to get back to the top she needs to be more focused on what she needs to do and what she wants to do. Top 16 by the French huh? Not playing like that!

Sylwiiia
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:12 PM
I can't stand to watch how Venus is wasting her big talent :(

sgsox
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:17 PM
whats funny is all the crap yall r saying about venus in this thread reminds me alot of how people were talking about serena not to long ago..and look where she is now. all i can say is you cant ever be sure about venus or serena so dont get to attatched to your oppions cause venus could pull a"serena" anytime

Conor
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Anyone who writes Venus off is an idiot. I mean she came from nowhere to win Wimbledon 2005... and infact its the most impressive grand slam win ive ever witnessed. So we all know how quickly she can turn things around... I wouldnt be surprised if she caused some major shocks at RG so... write her off at your own peril :devil: :lol:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:22 PM
How is Venus' wrist? I've heard a rumor that her injury might need more invasive procedures than Venus has so far been willing to do.

Also, EVERY pro needs match play time to get used to the rigors of the tour after a long layoff. Especially an injury layoff that may require the player to get used to approaching her game different. Serena played several tournaments starting in summer of 2006 to test her knee and game before she started to hit stride this year.

Also, its unfair to compare anyone to Serena -- even her sister. Serena is off the charts amazing with this latest comeback. Very few players could do what she's doing.

sgsox
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:24 PM
o yea lookimgay or w/e ur name is..u shud rethink what you said about venus and clay...shes won more tournaments on clay than serena and despite what u think she can be pretty good on it when she wants to be.
Ex: hamburg 2001 champ, amelia island 02 champ, 02 hamburg finalist, 02 french finalist, 04 charleston, warsaw champ, 05 istanbul champ.

Mightymirza
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

:spit: reaching finals of AO and FO ??How many players have achieved this feat on tour for gods sake? Its not her best surface for sure but shes shown some great results!

mr_parental
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:33 PM
I'm not writing her off, but these performances are shocking. Even in her wins she has never been consistent. Throughout her career as fans, we have known Venus is slightly more prone to inconsistent days than other top players but they were heavily outweighed by the days of brutal domination. The reverse is the case now. I get worried for Venus whenever she's playing cos I don't know which one has turned up...and more often than not, its the crap one! Back in 2000-2001, even when she lost or was down I still believed that she would do something, that has all but faded now (especially against the top players). But, hey she did it when it matter against Lindsay but, that was 2 years ago..ain't seen it since. And, if this is the New Venus, I prefer the old one...sorry but thats the truth! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

trufanjay
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:35 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.
What a dumb post.

tae04
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:43 PM
I do think Venus could use some extra coaching on the side or something. I just don't think Venus will ever dominate like 5 yrs ago, thats just the honest truth. She had a nice Wimbledon 2 years ago but what great consistent results can you bring up over the past 3-4 yrs?
I do think she'll make the top 10. For some reason I think the US Open will be her tournament.

trufanjay
Apr 6th, 2007, 08:51 PM
We have to remember the injuries also. She hasn't spent the last three years playing full schedules. So it shouldn't be when was the last time she had consistent results, but when was the last time she was able to produce consistent results.

The Dawntreader
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Venus just had a bad day, everyone's signing her tennis obituary:lol:

She just needs more matches, esoecially on clay. Remember its only her third tournament of the year, and clay is always hard to adjust to, so she isnt doing too badly. I'd have been concerned if she'd gone out to rezai or Tu by that score. Golovin played the match of her life today, so good for her. Venus indeed played below her best, but it happens. Just gotta keep moving forward, the goodness will follow:D

I'm still impressed by Venus's eagerness to move forward and her second serve looks great. The wheels are in motion, the engine just needs reving;)

Her time is coming:bounce:

new-york
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Venus has never and will never be talented enough to string together good wins on slow surfaces.

Her only hope is on grass. She's made her entire career around winning Wimbledon and a few fast hard court American tournaments (USO, Miami). Outside of that she has never done anything great, even in her prime.

please.
she had good wins on slow surfaces before so stop.
her game of course is not a game for clay, has never been but even with that she did some good things on clay.

i'm sure you are really enjoying her losses lately but don't erase what she did in the past & what she showed she could do.
it was huge, respect that.

sweetpeas
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:26 PM
Serena's game is flawless when its on and even when its not on. Serena is smart enough to pull back and be patient. Venus is too impatient on clay. Don't expect Venus to do well at the French Open this year expect the same result as she usually has.


Totaly agree? Venus just hit harder!:sad: :sad:

bridgepea
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:29 PM
I cannot believe that I am reading this drivel - are posters now saying that if a player wins Wimbledon, the most prestigious of all the major tournaments, then that means that they are a has been. Venus has done more with her little finger, than most of these so-called superstar players will ever accomplish in their very short careers. Venus has been on tour now for 10 years - during that time she has proven to be a winner not only on court, but off the court as well. She has been hailed by her fellow players for her sportsmanship, her intelligence and the way she is able to articulate her arguments in support of or against matters that affect the WTA Tour. Recently when Billie Jean was being honoured, of the current crop of players the USTA chose Venus to speak on behalf of the younger generation of players. Please people if we are going to villify someone for their game, then we do so, and we criticise and suggest options if we feel like someone's game needs improvement, then ask yourself the question, could I compete at that level. Do you know how much effort it takes just to go out there in front of millions of people and end up losing, putting a smile on your face and watch the disappointment in people's eyes and try and put a cheery smile on the whole thing. Come on be supportive, but not disparaging of her accomplishments. Recall also that V&S father did say that Serena wanted it more, perhaps Venus is just playing now because she loves the game and loves the competition, but whether she wins or loses it is not the end of her world.

kiwifan
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:53 PM
Pride? :haha:

She's just tuning up for the French. :yawn:

Winning in losing only matters...

...IN THE SLAMS!!! :)

And I'm not saying she "wanted to lose" or anything like that...

...just that there's a big difference between getting ready for a big event and losing a few matches and losing in the big event. :shrug:

The French is the big event, everything else is "getting ready". :cool:

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:55 PM
Yeah she made the RG finals beating Clarissa Fernandez in the semifnals :haha: And most of those clay titles were very, very weak... such as in 2004 or that Tier III title she won.


I wasn't aware that Rome and Charleston were weak titles. Aren't they both Tier I events. As greatas Serena is, she doesn't have wins on green clay and red clay at Tier I events.

cellophane
Apr 6th, 2007, 09:57 PM
I wasn't aware that Rome and Charleston were weak titles. Aren't they both Tier I events. As greatas Serena is, she doesn't have wins on green clay and red clay at Tier I events.

Rome 2002

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:00 PM
Rome 2002


Can't you read? I said red AND green clay. Serena as not been past the SF at Charleston, though I think she will get to the final this year (if she plays).

In The Zone
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Venus just had a bad day, everyone's signing her tennis obituary:lol:

She just needs more matches, esoecially on clay. Remember its only her third tournament of the year, and clay is always hard to adjust to, so she isnt doing too badly. I'd have been concerned if she'd gone out to rezai or Tu by that score. Golovin played the match of her life today, so good for her. Venus indeed played below her best, but it happens. Just gotta keep moving forward, the goodness will follow:D

I'm still impressed by Venus's eagerness to move forward and her second serve looks great. The wheels are in motion, the engine just needs reving;)

Her time is coming:bounce:

Exactly. After hardcourts for three months, there is no break and BAM -- clay. Look at Medina-Garrigues. Prominent clay court player and she loses to a WC Cibulkova. Amelia Island is never easy. This loss against Golovin does not speak bounds about Venus' clay court ability but instead, it speaks about her rustiness and her need to get match tough and find rhythm. In fact, I am actually glad she lost here so she can prepare for Charleston and not get so tired. Losses drive Venus to push harder. Premature success makes me feel as though she thinks it will be handed to her. I want her to work for this. With net play and a forehand with great angles, Venus can do much damage on clay. Today was just a day that it was obvious she hasn't played a full season since 2003. That is all.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:02 PM
I wasn't aware that Rome and Charleston were weak titles. Aren't they both Tier I events. As greatas Serena is, she doesn't have wins on green clay and red clay at Tier I events.

But she has the slam and that's all that matters. :p :wavey:

Actually this decade the winner of Charleston has won the French Open 4 of 7 times.
So it seems quite strong.
The three times players have not backed up their Charleston win with a French Open win is when Iva Majoli won it, Venus Williams won it, and Nadia Petrova won it.

cellophane
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Can't you read? I said red AND green clay. Serena as not been past the SF at Charleston, though I think she will get to the final this year (if she plays).

I interpreted your post as not having wins on either red clay at Tier Is or green clay.

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:04 PM
Can't you read? I said red AND green clay. Serena as not been past the SF at Charleston, though I think she will get to the final this year (if she plays).

2003 Final ;) :wavey:

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:04 PM
I interpreted your post as not having wins on either red clay at Tier Is or green clay.

Oh, OK.

lizchris
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:04 PM
2003 Final ;) :wavey:


Who did she lose to?

In The Zone
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:06 PM
Who did she lose to?

JH(H) of course.

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:08 PM
I wasn't aware that Rome and Charleston were weak titles. Aren't they both Tier I events. As greatas Serena is, she doesn't have wins on green clay and red clay at Tier I events.

a QF and F at Berlin (retiring against ASV in 1999, and losing in a 3rd set TB to Henin in 2002)

two semis and a win at Roma (a CHOKE JOB :o to Amelie in 2003 [up 6-1 5-3] and a hard loss to JCap in 2004)

She's 21-7 @ Roma and Berlin combined :shrug: not half bad if you ask me

trufanjay
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:09 PM
I think Venus will get it together soon.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:15 PM
Exactly. After hardcourts for three months, there is no break and BAM -- clay. Look at Medina-Garrigues. Prominent clay court player and she loses to a WC Cibulkova. Amelia Island is never easy. This loss against Golovin does not speak bounds about Venus' clay court ability but instead, it speaks about her rustiness and her need to get match tough and find rhythm. In fact, I am actually glad she lost here so she can prepare for Charleston and not get so tired. Losses drive Venus to push harder. Premature success makes me feel as though she thinks it will be handed to her. I want her to work for this. With net play and a forehand with great angles, Venus can do much damage on clay. Today was just a day that it was obvious she hasn't played a full season since 2003. That is all.

So Golovon has won 4 straight sets against Venus on green clay.
She beat Venus in 2005 at Charleston when Venus was about 12 days from making the semis in Miami.
Surely she wasn't rusty then.
And it seems Venus has an issue especially on clay against retrievers who act like they're a wall in a match.
Myskina, Zvonareva, Golovin, Martinez, Dokic, to name a few.

Honestly I don't think Venus is rusty on clay.
She didn't really know when the exact time to come in to the net at last year but got away with it because she's an amazing volleyer, now she got caught a little lost today.
Sampras definately didn't learn when the exact time to come to net was on clay and it seems like Venus is in the same pattern.
With players able to get to more shots, she has to pick more wisely.

Bruno71
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:16 PM
First of all, you all should remember that last summer when Serena first came back, she lost in straight sets to Jankovic and Zvonareva, who weren't even in the top 20 at the time...struggled with Shaughnessy...fought back against Mauresmo at the US Open and lost...etc.

Venus can right the ship, too. Golovin is too good a player to not be in your rhythm against. I agree that the problem is Venus seems to never find her rhythm before falling back out or getting injured. Consistency is her main issue. But she obviously has the capability.

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:19 PM
First of all, you all should remember that last summer when Serena first came back, she lost in straight sets to Jankovic and Zvonareva, who weren't even in the top 20 at the time...struggled with Shaughnessy...fought back against Mauresmo at the US Open and lost...etc.

Venus can right the ship, too. Golovin is too good a player to not be in your rhythm against. I agree that the problem is Venus seems to never find her rhythm before falling back out or getting injured. Consistency is her main issue. But she obviously has the capability.

You can't really compare that...Ree was out of shape, unfit, and off the tour for 6 months and came back and played 2 tournies to get into shape, and she lost to two HOT players.

Vee's shape has never been a problem with her fitness, it's her strokes that needed the work....Serena was able to hit with the best of them, it was just when she got to moving, you could see how out of shape she was

VenusSerenaBlvd.
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:20 PM
So far, I'm not looking forward to the clay season for Venus. She just looked so unsure of herself. It was not nice to see. Even the pictures of her during this match shows that she was just sooooo uncomfortable. I hope she snaps out of it soon. I really want Venus to win the French Open one day.

Serena will play next week and we'll see how she'll do at Charleston.

Bruno71
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:34 PM
You can't really compare that...Ree was out of shape, unfit, and off the tour for 6 months and came back and played 2 tournies to get into shape, and she lost to two HOT players.

Vee's shape has never been a problem with her fitness, it's her strokes that needed the work....Serena was able to hit with the best of them, it was just when she got to moving, you could see how out of shape she was

I know they had different problems. But the point is that Serena needed some time to work thru her fitness issues, and Venus needs some time to work thru whatever issues she has...even if it's just getting her focus and rhythm back. Almost every player who's been absent for a long time needs matches under their belt to work out the kinks.

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:44 PM
So Golovon has won 4 straight sets against Venus on green clay.
She beat Venus in 2005 at Charleston when Venus was about 12 days from making the semis in Miami.
Surely she wasn't rusty then.
And it seems Venus has an issue especially on clay against retrievers who act like they're a wall in a match.
Myskina, Zvonareva, Golovin, Martinez, Dokic, to name a few.

Honestly I don't think Venus is rusty on clay.
She didn't really know when the exact time to come in to the net at last year but got away with it because she's an amazing volleyer, now she got caught a little lost today.
Sampras definately didn't learn when the exact time to come to net was on clay and it seems like Venus is in the same pattern.
With players able to get to more shots, she has to pick more wisely.

Venus suffered burn out in their last meeting. She said so on their eality show when she was talking to Serena over the phone. The scheduling was terrible for that match, Venus was in tears after it aswell

starin
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Anyone who writes Venus off is an idiot. I mean she came from nowhere to win Wimbledon 2005... and infact its the most impressive grand slam win ive ever witnessed. So we all know how quickly she can turn things around... I wouldnt be surprised if she caused some major shocks at RG so... write her off at your own peril :devil: :lol:

:worship: thanks. its good to hear a non-Venus fan actually give her credit for how good a player she can be. The sad thing with Venus is that she is gradually working her way toward Mary Pierce status. A player who you can count on to lose and implode with UE after UE but can always come up with great play once in awhile. I just don't understand how she goes from her memphis final form to this. She's becoming nothing more than Mary Peirce 2.0.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:20 PM
Venus suffered burn out in their last meeting. She said so on their eality show when she was talking to Serena over the phone. The scheduling was terrible for that match, Venus was in tears after it aswell

I was there.
I don't remember anything being bad about the schedule.
She played two matches.
One was a night match. One was a day afternoon match.
She had it no worse than Lindsay Davenport who played a night match and a day match and Lindsay won Amelia Island the previous week.

The Charleston tournament did everything they could including putting players on other practice courts just so she could feel comfortable.
She even practiced at the same time Lisa Raymond played Golovin.
Daddy should have been doing a little scouting.
Those two were Venus' next opponent.
Didn't see anyone.

IMO, what I saw in her reality series was made for television.

It's just excuse after excuse.
There should have been someone scouting that match.
Months later Venus had no idea who Sesil was.

If there was a burn out it seems more caused by lack of scouting than anything and in this decade you cannot do that.
And for me for her not to be able to step up her game and show that that straight set lost was fluke just shows how much of a pain Golovin is as a matchup for Venus on this surface.

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:26 PM
I was there.
I don't remember anything being bad about the schedule.
She played two matches.
One was a night match. One was a day afternoon match.
She had it no worse than Lindsay Davenport who played a night match and a day match and Lindsay won Amelia Island the previous week.

The Charleston tournament did everything they could including putting players on other practice courts just so she could feel comfortable.
She even practiced at the same time Lisa Raymond played Golovin.
Daddy should have been doing a little scouting.
Those two were Venus' next opponent.
Didn't see anyone.

IMO, what I saw in her reality series was made for television.

It's just excuse after excuse.
There should have been someone scouting that match.
Months later Venus had no idea who Sesil was.

If there was a burn out it seems more caused by lack of scouting than anything and in this decade you cannot do that.
And for me for her not to be able to step up her game and show that that straight set lost was fluke just shows how much of a pain Golovin is as a matchup for Venus on this surface.

Venus and Serena have always said that its about how they play not their opponent and thats the truth. Players like Karatancheva don't have anything Venus hasn't seen before, there really wasn't a need for her to have checked her out. She just played terrible :tape:

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Venus and Serena have always said that its about how they play not their opponent and thats the truth. Players like Karatancheva don't have anything Venus hasn't seen before, there really wasn't a need for her to have checked her out. She just played terrible :tape:

According to you, according to people who saw Sesil at the time, they considered her the new generation of short power players since Henin came to be a top tenner.
That's fine but you still need to scout.
There's nothing saying you can play your game and still scout players.
They're just making it harder on themselves doing that especially in Venus case.
If someone in her entourage would have scouted, she wouldn't have lost in straight sets to Golovin twice.

Viktymise
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:40 PM
According to you, according to people who saw Sesil at the time, they considered her the new generation of short power players since Henin came to be a top tenner.
That's fine but you still need to scout.
There's nothing saying you can play your game and still scout players.
They're just making it harder on themselves doing that especially in Venus case.
If someone in her entourage would have scouted, she wouldn't have lost in straight sets to Golovin twice.

She wasn't that short and there were other short, bigger power playes that Venus was well aware of at the time, a la Sprem. Well i don't think scounting would have helped much today, i mean she already knew how Golovin played, she can't help it if her opponent plays well, and unfortunatley for her today, she was too messy at times

trivfun
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Clay is more about placement and quickness. Venus does not like slow surfaces because it throws her timing off and her rhythm off. I don't think clay is for tall people.

Yet, I think Venus should utilize her weak forehand in some way. Use it as a crutch for her opponents to go for. Prime example of this Darlene Hard who had a great serve and a backhand but a not so reliable forehand. However, she used that forehand to her advantage and won the 1960 French.

Louis Cyphre
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:45 PM
She just loose a match vs a very good young player ... why is this drama :shrug: Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose,thats it!

coolbird2
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:48 PM
Tracy Austin got one thing right do not expect Venus to have the type of comeback Serena has had. This year will be all about Serena and Venus as usual will be the losing sister in the shadows watching on clapping as Serena wins big titles. I wonder how Venus feels being the loser sister? I mean, I can't help that she must be a bit envious that Serena is winning everything while she loses to people like Golivin.

Where is Venus's pride? Eventually you would think a fire would light within her?
Today's result proves that Venus will not be on top anytime soon if ever. I am sure Serena would NEVER lose to Golivin. As I predicted Venus lost to Golivin again. The loss underscores the big difference between Venus and Serena's games. Venus game is just too erratic and not smooth like Serena's.
Serena's game is flawless when its on and even when its not on. Serena is smart enough to pull back and be patient. Venus is too impatient on clay. Don't expect Venus to do well at the French Open this year expect the same result as she usually has.

Serena went to Nick's academy to work on her game during her comeback. I think Venus depends on Richard too much. Serena seems to be more independent.Nick helped Serena out. So why doesn't Venus find an additional support someone from the outside that can help her? Steffi Graf hired a swiss coach many years back because she realized her father Peter could only take her so far. I don't see why Venus cannot consult with someone else? Why not ask Billie Jean King to be a part time coach? Martina Navratilova went to Billie Jean for assistance and she won Wimbledon in 1990. Venus serve is her weakness and she needs to tighten up her strokes. I just don't see Venus coming back until she grows up, admits her weaknesses and corrects them.


Well I think Venus pride is sitting on 5 grandslam :lol: and mant mant titles. She is a amazing tennis player. One of the all time greats. She has nothing eles to prove. And is out there cus she enjoys the sport. ;)

trivfun
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:49 PM
She just loose a match vs a very good young player ... why is this drama :shrug: Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose,thats it!

I thought Venus played well. I hope she plays more and learn to use her weaknesses.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:51 PM
She wasn't that short and there were other short, bigger power playes that Venus was well aware of at the time, a la Sprem. Well i don't think scounting would have helped much today, i mean she already knew how Golovin played, she can't help it if her opponent plays well, and unfortunatley for her today, she was too messy at times

Sprem is about the same height as Clijsters.
Being the same height as the average American man, is not short.

No it would have helped if she was sticking to what she supposedly said she was doing this week which was puting some more spin on the ball.
Patience works well against Golovin and if she actually took something off the ball instead of trying to put more pace on it, she wouldn't have been messy.

jdyshrky
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:57 PM
She did make it to the French Open final as well...she's steadily making progress. I hope everyone just gives up on here as well so she can prove them wrong.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 7th, 2007, 12:02 AM
She did make it to the French Open final as well...she's steadily making progress. I hope everyone just gives up on here as well so she can prove them wrong.

Riight.
As I'm sure Sampras expected to make it back to the semifinals of Roland Garros 5 years after his best performance there. :p

Slutiana
Apr 7th, 2007, 12:07 AM
anyway only time will tell on how she will respond to this...maybe this is the wakeup call she needs to get back to the top sice the only other match she lost was against the number one seed..

faste5683
Apr 7th, 2007, 12:13 AM
:rolleyes:

Give Vee a break. One bad match and it's all over for her at WTA "La La Land" World...:eek:

Nice win, Tati!

:wavey:

Yaanei
Apr 7th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Morrisey, please stick you head in a bucket of water. There is where it belongs. Venus' serve let her down, and she certainly was not moving well.

Unlike you and other negative persons, she has belief in her game and abilities. After all, she is 5 time GS Champion!!

cellophane
Apr 7th, 2007, 12:17 AM
:worship: thanks. its good to hear a non-Venus fan actually give her credit for how good a player she can be. The sad thing with Venus is that she is gradually working her way toward Mary Pierce status. A player who you can count on to lose and implode with UE after UE but can always come up with great play once in awhile. I just don't understand how she goes from her memphis final form to this. She's becoming nothing more than Mary Peirce 2.0.

What form? It was one good match against Peer and people assumed she was back to the top 10. Also, I don't believe Pierce struggled with technique as much as Venus when she was fit. It's true that they are either on or off, but Pierce's problems weren't largely about technique

tennisjunky
Apr 7th, 2007, 12:23 AM
Stop comparing Venus to Serena. Venus needs more time to find her game.
Her loss today was a bad one in the way she lost but this is her third tournament back from injury and the first on green clay.

I still think she can have a good season but she has to find the consistency back in her game and match toughness. She will be fine when she does that.

thank you! venus has nothing to do with serena. people lump them together and think because serena did good venus will too. silly, to expect them to have the same performances because they are sisters. venus is venus and serena is serena.

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:09 AM
different players...Serena is Serena, Venus is Venus...give Venus her time, by Wimbledon she's gonna be aight.

The Dawntreader
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:14 AM
This loss has got so out of proportion!:rolleyes: :o

The threads such as ' Sisters role reversals', ' Venus needs help', ' Venus doesnt deserve a clothing contract'...........

OMG!

She lost a tennis match, she didnt lose 6-0 6-0 to a no-body. Yes she had a bad day, yes she had a bad forehand day, but thats all it is. nothing life-changingly awful that we have to start contemplating Venus's whole career based on one loss.....

She's playing and she's healthy. lets have some comfort in that:D

Lunaris
Apr 7th, 2007, 11:51 AM
First she is the goddes who will crush everyone easily and now she needs help. :lol: :confused:

How quickly can an opinon change. :lol:

The Dawntreader
Apr 7th, 2007, 01:05 PM
First she is the goddes who will crush everyone easily and now she needs help. :lol: :confused:

How quickly can an opinon change. :lol:

not my opinion, she still has those capabilities:)

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 7th, 2007, 01:46 PM
I am a big Williams fan if you couldn't tell from the name LOL...but Venus needs her confidence back big time....she can't keep missing by real estate and win...I'm not afraid to take the heat...but Venus should go to nick b (if things don't start to go right after a certain time of course)....Serena did and look what happened....yes she came back when she wanted to but she also went for help...another opinion does not hurt....in the AO 06 Serena was missing some shots and you'd be like 'but that's the melbourne sign Serena'.....Venus can be devastating when on form but that's too 'blue moonish' these days if you know what I mean....I also think she doesn't have the same mentality that Serena has being that they are separate individuals and all (which people forget)....but a principle remains the same throughout....I believe that she needs something that will give her confidence big time....like beating a Kuzzie or someone on top form....as of now Venus can't win like this...should she get it together and be consistent for the rest of the year watch out though ;)...Maybe we all expected a bit too much after the Memphis beatdown?? it will come Venus....I think, from the match, she is too impatient with wanting to win...she has to believe that she will get it right....but she also has to believe that there is no way she should be losing to Golovin...no disrespect to her but use Spirela's words...she's THE F***ING VENUS WILLIAMS...Serena used her loss to Bammer as a launching pad cause she knew there was no way she should be losing to Bammer...as a big a fan as I am for them both she won't be winning anything if she continues like this (the inconsistency is way to consistent)....after a few more tournies though and she should be fine...if not....nick b is a phone call away :) not hating or anything so don't think I am....Venus is still great and I love her to death (well not death but you get the idea)...Venus is still a great player make no mistake...I won't write her off either cause that's suicide (who does that :unsure:) and she's my girl to the very bitter end...Team Williams to the end!!! :D