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View Full Version : Serena, on her terms. Will not conform.


Kunal
Apr 5th, 2007, 11:52 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/04/04/mailbag/index.html

John Wertheim's Tennis Mailbag.

Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

When I see Serena Williams play as dominating a match as she did against Maria Sharapova [in Key Biscayne], I'm almost more frustrated with Williams. Not with how she's playing now (stellar) but at the years she wasted in Hollywood. She could have gone down as the best ever, don't you think?
-- Ken Schneck, Bronxville, N.Y.

I see your point, though you leave yourself open to the inevitable rebuttal of, "She had a death in the family. This swoon was not all about velvet ropes and eating coconut shrimp at premieres." Personally, I've reached a point with Serena in particular where I accept the contradictions and the wavering commitment as part of the gestalt and move on. A prominent male player recently dismissed Serena to me as "a talent abuser." This echoes Chris Evert's sentiments from last year, too.

I think this misses the point at some level. From day one, Serena approached the sport differently from other players. To both her credit and detriment, she never conformed. And she never will.

If you're looking her to play 18 events or train consistently or hire a coach with technical know-how or stress out about the WTA commitment rules, you'll be disappointed. Never going to happen. And if she costs herself a seat in the Graf-Evert-Navratilova table in the process, so be it. She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms.

Billy Moonshine
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:08 PM
I think we all have to get over Serena's depressing March 2005-Dec 2006 period. She has done so, and that abiltity to move on is what makes her the player she is today.

Craigy
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:10 PM
Why must they still bring up all that Hollywood shit. :rolleyes: This is 2007, move on!

John.
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:13 PM
:yawn:

brickhousesupporter
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:15 PM
It better not be Roger who called her a tennis abuser, because my love for Serena runs deeper than my love for him.

Tennisaddict
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:17 PM
Looks like they still can´t get over the fact that Serena has been raised and coached to be the best player of her generation on her parents and her own terms :lol:

A'DAM
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:17 PM
For me she already sit there with the all time best players louge!! Daahhhh

Marcell
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:20 PM
Didn't Serena just participate in another reality show and still won in Miami? What these people fail to realize is that Serena came back when she was ready to come back. Why does the public assume that Serena wants to win 15 grandslams? Maybe she a number that she feels is enough for her and see a balance in doing other things that makes her happy.

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:32 PM
that's very true!!!!I hope it's not him cause I have loved Serena since 99....but you can't be a Serena fan without accepting what she does....she's always had her outside interests even when she was winning so it doesn't bother me...people need to get over it :)

frontier
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:39 PM
why should serena conform,to please who?she can only please herself first,family second and probably her fans third.these so called experts think we dont know about their subtle insults towards serena and her coaches.this letter is insinuating that oracene and richard are not capable.who cares whether she joins the graff,nav and evert legacy,she has made her own legacy and her fans will remember her as the most fascinating talented player of her generation.
what has male players got to do with women players,they should bother with how to beat roger.
these so called experts should be worried about their pet pova and leave serena the hell alone.they think serena listens to evert or pay attention to the navratilova statistics.
serena is going to make history this year she will play tournaments and win all the time.pova is going to be shut out completely,serena's competetion is going to be justine not momo,the russians or any other wannabe.
2007 is going to showcase serena as a legend in her time and beyond.she is a player who epitomes the catch phrase "it is what it is".

tennnisfannn
Apr 5th, 2007, 12:51 PM
Aren't these the same guys who were having a go at serena when she was struggling? Quite frankly I don't believe they really want to see serena as the greatest ever, this is let's criticise serena regardless of what she has accomplished.
If serena dominates again, look to see the 'death to power tennis' flags waved again. Why didn't they acknowledge this talent in 02/03. Weren't they all saying how unfair it was that they i.e both sisters were so much bigger than the others. it didn't even matter that justine was beating the sugar out of Lindsay then.

Kunal
Apr 5th, 2007, 01:02 PM
seriously....?? people were saying that shit??

i wasnt reading up so much about the tennis back then. but if there is no consistency in sports columnists words and thoughts then i think that is showing double standards

Vamos.
Apr 5th, 2007, 01:24 PM
Stupid post from Ken or whatever his name was. He seems to have just caught the train of two years ago...moose.

Anyway, I like Wertheim's reply though...everyone should accept Serena for who she is. If she wanted to be on the table of Graf and co (so badly, like say Federer wants to surpass Sampras so badly in the men's game) then she would be; end of, she is getting what she wants out of tennis and life. 'Grats to her.

bandabou
Apr 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM
Makes Serena even greater..all on her own terms. No junior playing, no playing yourself to death..allows herself to drop out of top 100 and then comes back to win Oz open ( destroying the no.1 to be, who hasn't been the same since) and Miami (destroying no.2 again and rallying from set and 4-5 15-40 down!) . That's why she'll go down as a legend.

tennnisfannn
Apr 5th, 2007, 01:34 PM
I would like to add that tenis is not a science. No one will ever know what would hvae happened to serena under different circumstances. Who would have bet that in the constant absence of both williams and belgians in the 03/05 Lindsay who was next in line to win a major would not when the likes of myskina a non clay courter, kuzy, amelie, etc players lindsay was arguably so much better would win majors instead. Even Pierce came back to the finals the same no of times as lIndsay.
perhaps even if all had gone well, serena may not have even won slams.
When Venus won USO 2001, who would have thought it would a solid 4 years before she won another slame. bear in mind she was at the top of her game too till that damned injury in 03.
kim finally wins a major, still at the top of women's tennis and never wins another.
We really cannot lament wasted talent, unless of course a player just quits with no injury insight.

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 5th, 2007, 01:40 PM
not only a set...but a 0-6 set...the American media has always been this way....but think nothing of it...they only want Serena now cause American men or women aren't dominating the sport like they once were....Serena and Venus..Americans...#1 and #2 respectively....and were disowned by their own just because....on comes MaSha...who fits the mould of what they think a tennis player should look like....and they latch on to her....now she won't change her citizenship to American...and little by little they are starting to go the same route with her....now Serena comes back when she feels like playing again....and I say feel like cause nothing made her comeback but herself....and the Americans want to talk about how good this is for American tennis....wasn't she always good for American tennis?? oh wait no....forgot she wasn't white...or tall....or slim....or blonde...with blue eyes...dish of humble pie anyone??

mykarma
Apr 5th, 2007, 02:21 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/04/04/mailbag/index.html

John Wertheim's Tennis Mailbag.

Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

When I see Serena Williams play as dominating a match as she did against Maria Sharapova [in Key Biscayne], I'm almost more frustrated with Williams. Not with how she's playing now (stellar) but at the years she wasted in Hollywood. She could have gone down as the best ever, don't you think?
-- Ken Schneck, Bronxville, N.Y.

I see your point, though you leave yourself open to the inevitable rebuttal of, "She had a death in the family. This swoon was not all about velvet ropes and eating coconut shrimp at premieres." Personally, I've reached a point with Serena in particular where I accept the contradictions and the wavering commitment as part of the gestalt and move on. A prominent male player recently dismissed Serena to me as "a talent abuser." This echoes Chris Evert's sentiments from last year, too.

I think this misses the point at some level. From day one, Serena approached the sport differently from other players. To both her credit and detriment, she never conformed. And she never will.

If you're looking her to play 18 events or train consistently or hire a coach with technical know-how or stress out about the WTA commitment rules, you'll be disappointed. Never going to happen. And if she costs herself a seat in the Graf-Evert-Navratilova table in the process, so be it. She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms.
That's it and the sooner the know it alls realize that the better off they'll be. If it was important to Serena to be with Graf etc. she'd accomplished that or at least made an attempt. Because both sisters have done it there way, is one of the reasons I love them.

mykarma
Apr 5th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Aren't these the same guys who were having a go at serena when she was struggling? Quite frankly I don't believe they really want to see serena as the greatest ever, this is let's criticise serena regardless of what she has accomplished.
If serena dominates again, look to see the 'death to power tennis' flags waved again. Why didn't they acknowledge this talent in 02/03. Weren't they all saying how unfair it was that they i.e both sisters were so much bigger than the others. it didn't even matter that justine was beating the sugar out of Lindsay then.
Give em a break, they don't have anyone else to really talk about. :lol:

Vlover
Apr 5th, 2007, 02:59 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/04/04/mailbag/index.html

From day one, Serena approached the sport differently from other players. To both her credit and detriment, she never conformed. And she never will.

If you're looking her to play 18 events or train consistently or hire a coach with technical know-how or stress out about the WTA commitment rules, you'll be disappointed. Never going to happen. And if she costs herself a seat in the Graf-Evert-Navratilova table in the process, so be it. She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms.

Obviously Wertheim is one of the few who actually gets this. I've never heard Serena or Venus aspire to outdo Graf, Evert etc because they knew they had no intentions of playing tennis with such myopia as the others did.

The Williams vision was always to be the best they can be during their careers. If they wanted to equal or surpass the records of others they would have started much earlier, play more and focus only on tennis. They clearly just want to live a complete and enjoyable life while playing tennis.

Personally as a fan I respect how they want to live their lives and just enjoy them more for all the thrills I've recieved so far and will be savouring even more their successes in the future. Quite frankly they don't need Graf numbers to recognize their impact on the sport during this generation.:worship:

Go Venus! Go Serena! I'm with you to the end regardless of the numbers.:kiss: :hearts:

thrust
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:01 PM
It^s her life! She is proving that she can stay away from the game, come back, and win. It doesn^t have to be her life to win. Lucky Lady, most can^t do that.

harloo
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:12 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/04/04/mailbag/index.html

John Wertheim's Tennis Mailbag.

Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

When I see Serena Williams play as dominating a match as she did against Maria Sharapova [in Key Biscayne], I'm almost more frustrated with Williams. Not with how she's playing now (stellar) but at the years she wasted in Hollywood. She could have gone down as the best ever, don't you think?
-- Ken Schneck, Bronxville, N.Y.

I see your point, though you leave yourself open to the inevitable rebuttal of, "She had a death in the family. This swoon was not all about velvet ropes and eating coconut shrimp at premieres." Personally, I've reached a point with Serena in particular where I accept the contradictions and the wavering commitment as part of the gestalt and move on. A prominent male player recently dismissed Serena to me as "a talent abuser." This echoes Chris Evert's sentiments from last year, too.

I think this misses the point at some level. From day one, Serena approached the sport differently from other players. To both her credit and detriment, she never conformed. And she never will.

If you're looking her to play 18 events or train consistently or hire a coach with technical know-how or stress out about the WTA commitment rules, you'll be disappointed. Never going to happen. And if she costs herself a seat in the Graf-Evert-Navratilova table in the process, so be it. She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms.

This is another insult in reference to Oracene and Richard's coaching ability. I haven't heard anyone question Yuri's ability to coach his daughter and Maria's slumping now. Have Tracy and crew stated anything about Maria needing to get assistance from a "real coach"? I don't see outside coaching as a negative but why is it ok for these people to single out the Williams? Many players could benefit from outside coaching, not just the sisters.:rolleyes:

hotandspicey
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Same soup warmed over. :yawn:..Serena makes it taste better and better now. :drool:

venusdemilo
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:13 PM
^ Don't the sisters have some outside coaching? Didn't they go to Bolletieri (sp?) at one point?

tennisbum79
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:38 PM
"a talent abuser."

I like this expression, even thought it was not meant as a compliment.

Serena has so much talent, people think she is abusing it.
Isnt' time to stop these endless threads and superfluous
always comparing Serena to thenew "most talented of the week".

The way you know somebody is talented is when
cool head, dispassionate, non-specialist individuals
can notice her gift.

I have come to believe that posters who find the need
to constantly compare their fave to Serena in fact think their
action bring favorabel attention to their favorite player.
Whether the fave wins the poll or not.

mykarma
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:40 PM
Obviously Wertheim is one of the few who actually gets this. I've never heard Serena or Venus aspire to outdo Graf, Evert etc because they knew they had no intentions of playing tennis with such myopia as the others did.

The Williams vision was always to be the best they can be during their careers. If they wanted to equal or surpass the records of others they would have started much earlier, play more and focus only on tennis. They clearly just want to live a complete and enjoyable life while playing tennis.

Personally as a fan I respect how they want to live their lives and just enjoy them more for all the thrills I've recieved so far and will be savouring even more their successes in the future. Quite frankly they don't need Graf numbers to recognize their impact on the sport during this generation.:worship:

Go Venus! Go Serena! I'm with you to the end regardless of the numbers.:kiss: :hearts:
He only got it after Serena came back kicking butt.

Larrybidd
Apr 5th, 2007, 03:49 PM
"She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms."

Obviously Wertheim is one of the few who actually gets this. :

Wertheim actually figured this out quite awhile ago, which is why I respect him most of all the tennis writers. Venus and Serena were raised to make themselves happy, and forget about trying to make everybody else happy. I love it.

Larrybidd
Apr 5th, 2007, 04:04 PM
This is another insult in reference to Oracene and Richard's coaching ability. I haven't heard anyone question Yuri's ability to coach his daughter and Maria's slumping now. Have Tracy and crew stated anything about Maria needing to get assistance from a "real coach"? I don't see outside coaching as a negative but why is it ok for these people to single out the Williams? Many players could benefit from outside coaching, not just the sisters.:rolleyes:

I suppose you could see this as an insult. I say it just illustrates 2 things i beleive: 1) tennis is not rocket science, and 2) Coaching in tennis, and frankly IMO, at the TOP levels of most sport, is way OVERATED.

I think its great that a man can go to the library, get some books on tennis, and with that and a lot of common sense and drive, train 2 of the top tennis players in history. Forget about someone diminishing his accomplishments: nobody can ever argue with the incredible success of Richard and Oracene.

Sharapova has a TEAM of coaches, of which Yuri is head coach. The sisters (while getting help from others periodically during their careers) just have mom and dad as coaches.

Mina Vagante
Apr 5th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Why must they still bring up all that Hollywood shit. :rolleyes: This is 2007, move on!

omg ure avatar :sad:

Stamp Paid
Apr 5th, 2007, 04:19 PM
If you're looking her to hire a coach with technical know-how.

WTF?

Pureracket
Apr 5th, 2007, 05:22 PM
WTF?
Well, umm....Serena has a mediocre serve, no backhand worth mentioning, and her forehand is atrocious.

She needs to hire someone with technical know how.

V-fan
Apr 5th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Obviously Wertheim is one of the few who actually gets this. I've never heard Serena or Venus aspire to outdo Graf, Evert etc because they knew they had no intentions of playing tennis with such myopia as the others did.

The Williams vision was always to be the best they can be during their careers. If they wanted to equal or surpass the records of others they would have started much earlier, play more and focus only on tennis. They clearly just want to live a complete and enjoyable life while playing tennis.

Personally as a fan I respect how they want to live their lives and just enjoy them more for all the thrills I've recieved so far and will be savouring even more their successes in the future. Quite frankly they don't need Graf numbers to recognize their impact on the sport during this generation.:worship:

Go Venus! Go Serena! I'm with you to the end regardless of the numbers.:kiss: :hearts:

You are very right........Very nice said........You don't need to all the records, because we will never forget the williams sisters.....They brought tennis where it is today...and a lot of people with disagree with this, but the rise of the womens game happent in their era........I hope we will see them for the coming years.........

ico4498
Apr 5th, 2007, 06:23 PM
This is another insult in reference to Oracene and Richard's coaching ability. I haven't heard anyone question Yuri's ability to coach his daughter and Maria's slumping now. Have Tracy and crew stated anything about Maria needing to get assistance from a "real coach"? I don't see outside coaching as a negative but why is it ok for these people to single out the Williams? Many players could benefit from outside coaching, not just the sisters.:rolleyes:

after the sisters played their third consecutive slam final a reader asked Jon if that would quell the questions re Richard's coaching acumen. He said no, folks would still wonder how much better they would be with a proper coach.


Richard will always be a tuff nut to swallow for the tennis bluebloods. he not only did it his way, but thumbed his nose at the establishment at every opportunity.

SAEKeithSerena
Apr 5th, 2007, 06:37 PM
I think we all have to get over Serena's depressing March 2005-Dec 2006 period. She has done so, and that abiltity to move on is what makes her the player she is today.


:bounce: :worship: :worship: :worship:

SJW
Apr 5th, 2007, 07:01 PM
It better not be Roger who called her a tennis abuser, because my love for Serena runs deeper than my love for him.

Serena is Roger's favourite player.

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 5th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Richard Williams should have his own tennis academy.

Seems to me, more players could use Richard's supposed lack of technical no how.


Wertheim needs to hear from the Sister's fans on this one.

The fact that people will argue that Richard is not a great coach after his daughters have amassed 13 slams between them- in other words arguing against the facts to make their point- lets you know who's attempting to deal with integrity and who simply hate all things Richard Williams.

The biggest success of Richard and Oracene is that they've managed to raise to loving sisters who value their relationship more than they value their tennis success. :yeah:

serenafan08
Apr 5th, 2007, 08:01 PM
:yawn: :rolleyes:

Serena!
Apr 5th, 2007, 09:40 PM
Why must they still bring up all that Hollywood shit. :rolleyes: This is 2007, move on!

seriously. she didnt waste "years in hollywood":rolleyes:
whatever
she's the best

Kunal
Apr 5th, 2007, 10:54 PM
a thread thats intended as info gets skewed

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 5th, 2007, 11:35 PM
Serena is Roger's favourite player.


o0o0 yes I forgot about that.....more than likely it's hewitt....never did like black people...anyone ever heard that song "here to stay" by christina aguilera?? that's a song that truly describes Serena..."gonna keep on doing my thing, cause whether they love or they hate on me, I'll still be the same girl I used to be, cause I ain't goin' nowhere, no I'm here to stay....I know some people wanna criticise, makes 'em feel better bout themselves...so say what you will, time will reveal, that in the end that I will be here still".....those are lyrics for her :devil:

serenafann
Apr 5th, 2007, 11:57 PM
These are the same old Dopey Annoying talking points where Serena is concerned,I guess her injuries have had nothing to do with her abscenses from tennis,so many act as if one day She was in the semis of Wimbledon but abruptly left the tournament to make a movie.The point is when Serena was HEALTHY She Played a more limited schedule than many But rarely missed the Grand Slams.Wertheims seeming attempt to downplay the "Death in the family"angle as having had an impact is bothersome.Funny how it is often described in these non specific terms if at all by commentators or writers Serena and Venus's sister was MURDERED in the streets of L.A. while all death can be tragic this is something totally different and it upsets me when I feel they are minimizing or dismissing it as a legitimate trauma for both women,case in point the Rotten Mary Carillo at the 05 Aussie Open and The 07 Aussie Open.Also I didn't like or appreciate Wertheims mentioning hiring a coach with technical know-how,this is about more negative talking points. Serena has a Hall of fame game and talent,other players have technical issues with their games including past and present players and Hall Of Famers included,but it has not been made the issue that Serena's or Venus' have been at times.Serena hasn't cost herself anything she will go down as one of the all time greats, her Tennis resume already shows that and no amount of spin,revisionist history or bogus talking points will affect that.

MikeJones
Apr 6th, 2007, 12:10 AM
Well Serena doing ANYTHING in Hollywood is a joke.

She is a Tennis player, and at the very best a b list celebrity.

I hope she doesnt take her "hollywood thing" seriously...seriously. :rolleyes:

mdterp01
Apr 6th, 2007, 12:30 AM
Serena does it her way and thats ALWAYS something I've liked about her the most. I'm sick of the old, waspy guard and their criticisms of Serena talking about how she should do this and how she should do that. If she wants to do things in Hollywood, then let her do things in Hollywood. Did she sign a contract with the WTA tour? Umm..don't think so. She can go to all the premieres and parties that she wants to. What I love about Venus and Serena is that they aren't a SLAVE to the WTA tour. They aren't gonna be like some players I won't mention who play a gazillion tournaments to amass a ranking that truly doesn't reflect how good they really are. Serena and Venus at this point need to play a regular schedule but not too heavy.

Unlike the other players, Venus and Serena's lives do not revolve around tennis. Rather, tennis revolves around their lives. They are in control and won't cowtow to Larry Scott, Chris Evert's stupid ass "open letters", or any of Pam Shriver and Mary Carillo's haterade. Those two heifers wish they had the singles success Serena had. :fiery: :fiery:

ico4498
Apr 6th, 2007, 12:30 AM
MikeJones, why not? Serena's Hollywood thing brings attention to tennis, everyone wins.

world class tennis pro + B list Hollywood celeb = more attention for tennis

it's a good thing.

Volcana
Apr 6th, 2007, 01:16 AM
There is such a thing as over-commitment, followed by burnout. Serena is as good as she is doing it her way. It's possible she'd have won more by now by being more conventional, but she also might have won less. What would Jennifer Capriati have accomplished if her family had put LESS pressure on her.

Also, Serena is AHEAD of where Navratilova was at that age, in terms of slam singlkes titles.

Denise4925
Apr 6th, 2007, 01:44 AM
this is let's criticise serena regardless of what she has accomplished.


No, it's the let's criticize Serena regardless.

Denise4925
Apr 6th, 2007, 01:51 AM
Well, umm....Serena has a mediocre serve, no backhand worth mentioning, and her forehand is atrocious.

She needs to hire someone with technical know how.

:worship: :worship: :lol:

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 6th, 2007, 01:51 AM
I know..is she EVER going to get her game together enough to go deep in a major for once, or win a big title? :shrug:

All that damn talent...WASTED

Denise4925
Apr 6th, 2007, 01:54 AM
o0o0 yes I forgot about that.....more than likely it's hewitt....never did like black people...anyone ever heard that song "here to stay" by christina aguilera?? that's a song that truly describes Serena..."gonna keep on doing my thing, cause whether they love or they hate on me, I'll still be the same girl I used to be, cause I ain't goin' nowhere, no I'm here to stay....I know some people wanna criticise, makes 'em feel better bout themselves...so say what you will, time will reveal, that in the end that I will be here still".....those are lyrics for her :devil:

Did you happen to think of that or did you know that they played that right before the Miami final? :D

Denise4925
Apr 6th, 2007, 01:56 AM
Well Serena doing ANYTHING in Hollywood is a joke.

She is a Tennis player, and at the very best a b list celebrity.

I hope she doesnt take her "hollywood thing" seriously...seriously. :rolleyes:

Wow, a "b" list celebrity hanging out with "a" listers. That's interesting.

RVD
Apr 6th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Serena the nonconformist..?!

LOVES IT! :worship:

I also love how she outright thumbs her nose at all the pompous "legends" of tennis and does it her way. :devil: :angel:

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 6th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Did you happen to think of that or did you know that they played that right before the Miami final? :D

omg really???? LOL I had no idea but I bet if I look back I'll hear it...but it just came to me when I was writing the post...but it goes well with Serena....I think Christina should perform that before the US Open final that Serena and Venus will be playing (yes I have my crystal ball out)

Dawn Marie
Apr 6th, 2007, 03:53 AM
How do these idiots know that if Serena didn't act in some small parts that she would have won 22 grandslams like Steffie?? The establishment will try to use anything to find some way to speak in a negative light on Serena.

Truth be told she had a knee injury and a death in the family.

Jakeev
Apr 6th, 2007, 04:50 AM
Didn't Serena just participate in another reality show and still won in Miami? What these people fail to realize is that Serena came back when she was ready to come back. Why does the public assume that Serena wants to win 15 grandslams? Maybe she a number that she feels is enough for her and see a balance in doing other things that makes her happy.

It's not that the public assumes that Serena wants to win 15 Grand Slams but that her fans WANT to see her win those 15.

But like what is being said, Serena is proving that she has the talent to do things her way and not traditionally the way those great ones before her did.

In 2107, she will probably be talked more than any other great champions efore and probably after her.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 6th, 2007, 05:10 AM
You are very right........Very nice said........You don't need to all the records, because we will never forget the williams sisters.....They brought tennis where it is today...and a lot of people with disagree with this, but the rise of the womens game happent in their era........I hope we will see them for the coming years.........
Popularity of the sport of professsional tennis has waned since its pennacle in the 1970's.

However, its appearant that no one from this generation of "stars" with the exception of a currently injured Sharapova will have an opportunity to make a run at history.

I agree and disagree with Werthless in some respects. He's correct when he said that "she did it her way," and on her own terms, however, even without the lengthy breaks in her career (and with tennis as a priority), I still don't think she would have been able to challenge Graf/Navratilova/Evert historically because she never consistently focused. Only in spurts.

Both sisters did everything Richard said they would.

ico4498
Apr 6th, 2007, 06:45 AM
However, its appearant that no one from this generation of "stars" with the exception of a currently injured Sharapova will have an opportunity to make a run at history.

lol, obviously yah make this shit up as yah go along.

history will take its own perspective. Nostradamus and Miss Cleo claim prescience, guess i'll add some crazee ass wtaworlder to that list of loonies.

it is apparent that breaking the standard of former greats will be a challenge for all current players. time, circumstance, opportunity ... it is a brave new world.

CORIA01
Apr 6th, 2007, 06:49 AM
Boring!

booshbish
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Looks like they still can´t get over the fact that Serena has been raised and coached to be the best player of her generation on her parents and her own terms :lol:

Serena was coached in her formative years at Bolleteri's.

This is super important for you to remember ok tennisaddict?

Di

Tennisaddict
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:44 PM
Serena was coached in her formative years at Bolleteri's.

This is super important for you to remember ok tennisaddict?

Di

Serena´s main coaches have been and will always be Richard and Oracene.
Bolletieri´s has added to that. Like it or not Richard has teached both his daughters the techniques they´re displaying today. Now you remember that booshbish :rolleyes:

alfajeffster
Apr 6th, 2007, 10:57 PM
Serena´s main coaches have been and will always be Richard and Oracene.
Bolletieri´s has added to that. Like it or not Richard has teached both his daughters the techniques they´re displaying today. Now you remember that booshbish :rolleyes:

Actually, Richard carted both his girls around the State of Florida, and I think Rick Macci actually had the most influence on both girls' tennis stroke production and on-court strategies. Neither Richard nor Oracene were or are (to my knowledge) accomplished tennis players, let alone of the caliber to be able to teach up-and-coming young girls world-class technique, especially with virtually no junior tournament experience. They did an outstanding (unprecedented in the past 20 years) job of instilling a fighting mentality, and in that job, did and do circles around anything Nick Bolletieri may claim to have accomplished with the girls.

Slutiana
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:09 PM
I dont know if other people dont but i dont care that serena will probably never win the most singles grand slam titles...as much as i love her...imagine venus vs serena finals EVERY SINGLE GRAND SLAM for like 10 years...exploring new things makes serena the plpayer is today...it gave her the desire to get back to the top after a few long timeouts but the thing is..serena doesnt care that she will never win the most titles...why? because she KNOWS that she IS THE BEST PLAYER EVER you've seen in the past that both williams dont care what people say about them and this is the same...serena doesnt care what people say about her...she KNOWS on her day theres only possibly one person who can beat her and That would be venus (playing well aswell) but loads of these players before have tried to prove their the best ever by playing in soo many tournaments..serena is different the only thing that matters is if SHE thinks SHES the best ever and she doesnt need 30 Grand slams to tell her that

Tennisaddict
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:32 PM
Actually, Richard carted both his girls around the State of Florida, and I think Rick Macci actually had the most influence on both girls' tennis stroke production and on-court strategies. Neither Richard nor Oracene were or are (to my knowledge) accomplished tennis players, let alone of the caliber to be able to teach up-and-coming young girls world-class technique, especially with virtually no junior tournament experience. They did an outstanding (unprecedented in the past 20 years) job of instilling a fighting mentality, and in that job, did and do circles around anything Nick Bolletieri may claim to have accomplished with the girls.

I know they worked with Rick Macci but they had been training before that with their parents. Richard moved them to Florida in 19991 when they were 10and 11 years old. Besides Richard stopped working with Macci after a while and started to coach them again. He and Oracene have been coaching V & S for the largest part of their tennis careers and not only on the mentality part but also on the technical part and on court strategie. They deserve a lot of credit for that.

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 6th, 2007, 11:48 PM
lol, obviously yah make this shit up as yah go along.

history will take its own perspective.
The current records of the WTA cannot be changed. It's a standard set by previous generations, as each generation historically is ALWAYS compared to their predecessors. You can't make up "shit" that is open and public knowledge, Einstein. Do you know what the International Tennis Hall of Fame is?
it is apparent that breaking the standard of former greats will be a challenge for all current players. time, circumstance, opportunity ... it is a brave new world.
It wasn't for Graf, Navratilova and Evert. It only takes someone young to begin winning GS titles, play consistently and stay focused throughout their career. Maria is the only one at this point who has a shot.

supergrunt
Apr 7th, 2007, 01:39 AM
The current records of the WTA cannot be changed. It's a standard set by previous generations, as each generation historically is ALWAYS compared to their predecessors. You can't make up "shit" that is open and public knowledge, Einstein. Do you know what the International Tennis Hall of Fame is?

It wasn't for Graf, Navratilova and Evert. It only takes someone young to begin winning GS titles, play consistently and stay focused throughout their career. Maria is the only one at this point who has a shot.

Yes, maybe when Serena retires. :)

Mother_Marjorie
Apr 7th, 2007, 01:11 PM
Yes, maybe when Serena retires. :)
That would be all well and good, but I'm doubtful that Serena has the focus to win at least two grand slam singles titles in each of the next five years, when she's not been able to string two in the same calendar year since 2003.

It would mean that not only would Serena be fighting tennis history, but her own personal history as well.

The train has passed.

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2007, 01:28 PM
That would be all well and good, but I'm doubtful that Serena has the focus to win at least two grand slam singles titles in each of the next five years, when she's not been able to string two in the same calendar year since 2003.

It would mean that not only would Serena be fighting tennis history, but her own personal history as well.

The train has passed.

Still..she's last to win multiple majors for two seasons..and is line to do it again...for all the bru bru and brah brah of Henin, Maria et al, yet to do that.

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2007, 01:30 PM
Actually, Richard carted both his girls around the State of Florida, and I think Rick Macci actually had the most influence on both girls' tennis stroke production and on-court strategies. Neither Richard nor Oracene were or are (to my knowledge) accomplished tennis players, let alone of the caliber to be able to teach up-and-coming young girls world-class technique, especially with virtually no junior tournament experience. They did an outstanding (unprecedented in the past 20 years) job of instilling a fighting mentality, and in that job, did and do circles around anything Nick Bolletieri may claim to have accomplished with the girls.

Neither was Peter Graf...yet you won't hear anybody talk about that.

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 7th, 2007, 02:15 PM
plz don't take away from richard and oracene!!! they coached them...they still coach them....getting outside opinions doesn't mean that they had the most influence on them...it's just an opinion!!!and how can you say the train has passed....didn't everyone say that in 05....06...07 at the beginning.....pfft...your funeral....Serena doesn't need to play a full season like some people...when she plays her best she's the best...why is it that everyone's ratings went down when the sister's weren't playing?? go figure....Serena and Venus are the definition of history!!! can't say tennis without calling a Williams....but yes I can see where you say she's fighting her personal history...it's tough to know you can beat everyone hands down...I wouldn't be motivated to play either if I could do what she could do....be "unfit" "not dedicated" "out of shape" and win the AO in WiNtage style....yup....I definitely wouldn't want to be in a sport where I could be all those things and be winning left right and centre....maybe she should take up something else...golf maybe??

supergrunt
Apr 7th, 2007, 02:45 PM
Mother Majorie is just really bitter right now. Let her cool off. :)

Vlover
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:24 PM
That would be all well and good, but I'm doubtful that Serena has the focus to win at least two grand slam singles titles in each of the next five years, when she's not been able to string two in the same calendar year since 2003.

It would mean that not only would Serena be fighting tennis history, but her own personal history as well.

The train has passed.

Right! :rolleyes: The great focused Maria has not been able to win two consecutive majors but Serena has been able to win four consecutive majors. Maybe she's waiting to turn 20 like Serena:lol: If its so easy why not even Justine who dominated while the sisters were out couldn't even accomplish this.:tape:

I must say it's very entertaining to watch all these hate filled bias predictions
evaporates as the season progresses. When are you going to get it that your idle chatter has no relevance to the reality on the court.

Serena has no interest in competing with tennis history but making her own tennis history. Smarmi your logic is :cuckoo: as things now stand you are giving Maria the benefit of the doubt of winning at least two majors over Serena who has demolished her twice already this season while Serena is still not in her best form..:help: Go figure! Dream on if that is your only hope of surviving reality.:lol:

Vlover
Apr 7th, 2007, 03:30 PM
[QUOTE]Mother Majorie is just really bitter right now.

Smarmy has always been bitter but she's having even more troubled times now because she thought she had hitched her bandwagon to two players who could threaten the sisters but its not working out as she predicted.:haha: She's always good for a laugh though.:D

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 7th, 2007, 09:42 PM
That would be all well and good, but I'm doubtful that Serena has the focus to win at least two grand slam singles titles in each of the next five years, when she's not been able to string two in the same calendar year since 2003.

It would mean that not only would Serena be fighting tennis history, but her own personal history as well.

The train has passed.

Well...considering the fact that she's missed at least 1 major for the past 4 seasons, still managing to get to a final an average every 3 times, and winning 66% of the time, if she can stay healthy for 4+ years, she will be knocking on 20+ and there's NOTHING you can do about it :wavey:

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2007, 02:45 AM
That would be all well and good, but I'm doubtful that Serena has the focus to win at least two grand slam singles titles in each of the next five years, when she's not been able to string two in the same calendar year since 2003.

It would mean that not only would Serena be fighting tennis history, but her own personal history as well.

The train has passed.

I hope someone bookmarks this :bs: :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:03 AM
it's not that stupid of a post if you look at it through your ass

Stamp Paid
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:07 AM
I hope someone bookmarks this :bs: :lol:

That bitch said this stupid shit too. http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9805031&postcount=120
She just makes the shit up as she gos along.

Denise4925
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:12 AM
That bitch said this stupid shit too. http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9805031&postcount=120
She just makes the shit up as she gos along.

:o :haha:

Thkmra
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:13 AM
[QUOTE=supergrunt;10463850]

Smarmy has always been bitter but she's having even more troubled times now because she thought she had hitched her bandwagon to two players who could threaten the sisters but its not working out as she predicted.:haha: She's always good for a laugh though.:D

:lol: :lol: I said it awhile ago!!!! I'm proud to say, I called her out on that bandwagon bullshit, and she was pissed:lol: :tape: Allez Justine my ass, Mother swampy WILL be singing Mauresmo's praises if Serena beats at the French!

mykarma
Apr 10th, 2007, 03:16 AM
it's not that stupid of a post if you look at it through your ass
:lol::lol::lol:

lacigirl
Apr 10th, 2007, 04:23 AM
That bitch said this stupid shit too. http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9805031&postcount=120
She just makes the shit up as she gos along.

:tape: :tape: :tape: :tape:

:rolls: :rolls: :rolls: :rolls:

:haha: :haha: :haha:

ico4498
May 12th, 2007, 07:55 AM
each generation historically is ALWAYS compared to their predecessors.

always compared by fools.

the game has changed, thus no common ground for an accurate comparison. as a tennis fan i celebrate all the former greats ... if you're not a stooge trying to discount the current generation, yah know they're probably faster & stronger.

comparisons to folks they've never met on-court is just entertaining conversation, nothing else.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 12th, 2007, 08:12 AM
always compared by fools.

the game has changed, thus no common ground for an accurate comparison. as a tennis fan i celebrate all the former greats ... if you're not a stooge trying to discount the current generation, yah know they're probably faster & stronger.

comparisons to folks they've never met on-court is just entertaining conversation, nothing else.

:worship: :worship:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 12th, 2007, 08:18 AM
That bitch said this stupid shit too. http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=9805031&postcount=120
She just makes the shit up as she gos along.

LMAO!! someone was made to eat their words in stunning fashion and still spews the same dribble??? wow she is brave I'll give her that..not the smartest cookie in the jar though

pav
May 12th, 2007, 10:36 AM
It is an amusing insight into human nature to observe how a large number of Serena fans seem to have massive doses of insecurity and chips on their shoulders and instead of respecting Serena, use her as a sort of racquet swinging light sabre to slice at their enemies, these seeming to be anyone who types anything less than adoring of her. but it is a free world so if it gives you lot as much amusement as it gives me reading it now and again,go to it you silly buggers! Oh half time is over now back to the rugby league.

Olórin
May 12th, 2007, 10:38 AM
It is an amusing insight into human nature to observe how a large number of Serena fans seem to have massive doses of insecurity and chips on their shoulders and instead of respecting Serena, use her as a sort of racquet swinging light sabre to slice at their enemies, these seeming to be anyone who types anything less than adoring of her. but it is a free world so if it gives you lot as much amusement as it gives me reading it now and again,go to it you silly buggers! Oh half time is over now back to the rugby league.


I also find it amusing when holier than thou posters in the "neutral zone" come out and practice their amateur psychology :rolleyes:

grogom31
May 12th, 2007, 10:45 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/04/04/mailbag/index.html

John Wertheim's Tennis Mailbag.

Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

When I see Serena Williams play as dominating a match as she did against Maria Sharapova [in Key Biscayne], I'm almost more frustrated with Williams. Not with how she's playing now (stellar) but at the years she wasted in Hollywood. She could have gone down as the best ever, don't you think?
-- Ken Schneck, Bronxville, N.Y.

I see your point, though you leave yourself open to the inevitable rebuttal of, "She had a death in the family. This swoon was not all about velvet ropes and eating coconut shrimp at premieres." Personally, I've reached a point with Serena in particular where I accept the contradictions and the wavering commitment as part of the gestalt and move on. A prominent male player recently dismissed Serena to me as "a talent abuser." This echoes Chris Evert's sentiments from last year, too.

I think this misses the point at some level. From day one, Serena approached the sport differently from other players. To both her credit and detriment, she never conformed. And she never will.

If you're looking her to play 18 events or train consistently or hire a coach with technical know-how or stress out about the WTA commitment rules, you'll be disappointed. Never going to happen. And if she costs herself a seat in the Graf-Evert-Navratilova table in the process, so be it. She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms.well i would say she doesn't have to win 20 more slams to be classified as the best ever if that's why the writer trying to say.She is already there, she already made history.

mankind
May 12th, 2007, 12:12 PM
It better not be Roger who called her a tennis abuser, because my love for Serena runs deeper than my love for him.

Well it definitely wasn't Rodick!

CORIA01
May 12th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Its True. She Could Have Been Even Better But She Prefers Hollywood
For Money?

mankind
May 12th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Its True. She Could Have Been Even Better But She Prefers Hollywood
For Money?

I disagree. If she had kept on dominating like she did in 2002, she would have burnt out. Now she's back and dominating - it's all about longevity.

Olórin
May 12th, 2007, 12:38 PM
I disagree. If she had kept on dominating like she did in 2002, she would have burnt out. Now she's back and dominating - it's all about longevity.

I agree, she is not as much of a winning machine as Graf.

She needed the mental time out, especially after injury. Now she is back and hopefully will stick around til she's in her late 20's :)

rjd1111
May 12th, 2007, 02:20 PM
Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

Wertheim:

" But I do agree with Roger's other premise: Head-to-head, Serena beats everyone. Ply all the greats with the same racket, pit them in a tournament and my money is on Williams. And I think that should have some bearing on how history recalls her. "


Of course Serena will never surpass some of the greats in numbers. But those
numbers are only relevant to who they played in their generation. While
numbers, stats, and longivity have their place, I think it comes down to
Who would beat the rest. I, and apparently Wortheim, think that's Serena.

Not only does she have a place amongst the all time greats I think
She sits at the head of the table.

Vlover
May 12th, 2007, 02:23 PM
[QUOTE]It is an amusing insight into human nature to observe how a large number of Serena fans seem to have massive doses of insecurity and chips on their shoulders

Hey you stated that it's human nature therefore its certainly not limited to Serena fans and can be applied generously to any/all fan bases.:)

Craigy
May 12th, 2007, 02:23 PM
Its True. She Could Have Been Even Better But She Prefers Hollywood
For Money?

Oh and how exactly do you know this. Are you Serena herself? No I think not.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 12th, 2007, 02:31 PM
why does everyone say that Kim can do what she wants but Serena has to stick to tennis only?? I understand....she's just so great that you don't want to see her doing anything else right?? I know how you feel...I can't help but be in awe of her as well

lacigirl
May 12th, 2007, 03:54 PM
I also find it amusing when holier than thou posters in the "neutral zone" come out and practice their amateur psychology :rolleyes:


:tape: :tape: :tape: :tape:

rjd1111
May 12th, 2007, 04:34 PM
Its True. She Could Have Been Even Better But She Prefers Hollywood
For Money?


Money? She can make more money at Tennis. Each Slam at a Million+
and all the endorsements that roll in by winning slams.

Simplicity.
May 12th, 2007, 04:38 PM
why does everyone say that Kim can do what she wants but Serena has to stick to tennis only?? I understand....she's just so great that you don't want to see her doing anything else right?? I know how you feel...I can't help but be in awe of her as well

Why do you post in bold :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But anyway, Im pretty sure a fair number of people on here have made comments about Clijsters too. The thing about the Williams is that they whine or whatever but Clijsters has never really whined or complained. Therefore people are going to make a bigger deal about the Williams' than Clijsters.

Craigy
May 12th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Why do you post in bold :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What's wrong with someone posting in bold? :cuckoo:

Slutiana
May 12th, 2007, 05:26 PM
Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

Wertheim:

" But I do agree with Roger's other premise: Head-to-head, Serena beats everyone. Ply all the greats with the same racket, pit them in a tournament and my money is on Williams. And I think that should have some bearing on how history recalls her. "


Of course Serena will never surpass some of the greats in numbers. But those
numbers are only relevant to who they played in their generation. While
numbers, stats, and longivity have their place, I think it comes down to
Who would beat the rest. I, and apparently Wortheim, think that's Serena.

Not only does she have a place amongst the all time greats I think
She sits at the head of the table.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

sweetpeas
May 12th, 2007, 05:37 PM
If Mr.John won"t speak names,then to me he lying.Never can do that in court?

StarDuvallGrant
May 12th, 2007, 07:25 PM
Why do you post in bold :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But anyway, Im pretty sure a fair number of people on here have made comments about Clijsters too. The thing about the Williams is that they whine or whatever but Clijsters has never really whined or complained. Therefore people are going to make a bigger deal about the Williams' than Clijsters.

What do Venus and Serena whine or complain about? All three should be allowed to do as they see fit with their lives.

Slutiana
May 12th, 2007, 08:55 PM
exactly...its they're lifes and they should do what they want with it..

and as i've said before...we all know that venus and serena are only doing it for themselves...not 4 the media, not for their coaches, not even for their mum or dad..but for themselves..if and when they hang up their rackets they feel they are the best players ever, thats all that matters.period.

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Why do you post in bold :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But anyway, Im pretty sure a fair number of people on here have made comments about Clijsters too. The thing about the Williams is that they whine or whatever but Clijsters has never really whined or complained. Therefore people are going to make a bigger deal about the Williams' than Clijsters.
Williams sisters whine and complain? I don't know what you've been smoking, but whatever it is, you need to put it down real quick. I'm pretty sure, however, you've been drinking some Haterade.

lacigirl
May 12th, 2007, 09:15 PM
Williams sisters whine and complain? I don't know what you've been smoking, but whatever it is, you need to put it down real quick. I'm pretty sure, however, you've been drinking some Haterade.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

volta
May 12th, 2007, 09:37 PM
:tape: :tape: :tape: :tape:

omg is that rena on ur avatar:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

parn2257
May 12th, 2007, 09:44 PM
poor serena

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 09:44 PM
[I][B]why does everyone say that Kim can do what she wants but Serena has to stick to tennis only?? I understand....

In the days since Kim retired, plenty of people have criticized her for her decision. Including Pete Bodo on Tennismagazine.com (who really ripped her)! Many women's sites have also criticized Kim because she says she wants to quit her career for marriage and children. So not "everyone" is in support of Kim "doing what she wants."

The bottom line is, who cares what anyone else thinks! Both Kim and Serena will do what they wish, as we all will.

I thought that Chris Evert's letter was on time to Serena, because she was merely asking her to think about what she wanted to do overall with her career. Chris ended the letter wishing her well with whatever Serena decided to do. It was what everyone was wondering and Chris voiced it. Her fans wanted to know what was going on too.

Now Serena is back (more or less -- she's been fighting another injury this time with her thigh -- this season) and motivated and wants to be the best again in tennis (arguably she's the best right now -- but she still has to prove it with ranking points). So, the Evert letter was a success from where I stand.

ico4498
May 12th, 2007, 09:51 PM
I thought that Chris Evert's letter was on time to Serena, because she was merely asking her to think about what she wanted to do overall with her career.

nice try but that surely isn't all the hypocrite tried to say ...

terjw
May 12th, 2007, 09:53 PM
why does everyone say that Kim can do what she wants but Serena has to stick to tennis only?? I understand....she's just so great that you don't want to see her doing anything else right?? I know how you feel...I can't help but be in awe of her as well

The essentisl important difference is that Kim had announced she would be retiring. So it's not the same situation at all.

The main reason for all the comments from people like Chrissie was that prior to Wimbledon last year it really looked like she was drifting tennis-wise with all that entering tournaments and pulling out at the last minute coupled with her other interests. There just seemed no plan - not one she was sticking to anyway. And when she did play losing to players she should be beating. The "wasted talent" articles were really because it wasn't clear at all that she had any purpose. So I don't think they were wrong then. I also think that purpose came back to Serena well before the AO this year - but was in evidence after Wimbledon last year.

I don't think respected people like Chris would have criticised her for a waste of talent if she'd announced she was retiring. I think she'd have respected her decision. So it's nothing to do with they want to criticise Serena and not Kim. And I don't think anyone serious would criticise either sister now for having outside interests. Both seem pretty committed at the moment.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

Wertheim:

" But I do agree with Roger's other premise: Head-to-head, Serena beats everyone. Ply all the greats with the same racket, pit them in a tournament and my money is on Williams. And I think that should have some bearing on how history recalls her. "


Of course Serena will never surpass some of the greats in numbers. But those
numbers are only relevant to who they played in their generation. While
numbers, stats, and longivity have their place, I think it comes down to
Who would beat the rest. I, and apparently Wortheim, think that's Serena.

Not only does she have a place amongst the all time greats I think
She sits at the head of the table.


I still say that eras canNOT be compared, so no one can say who would beat who head to head.

Its not about the racquets only, its about how the players grew up and how they trained in the time period in which they learned the sport.

Players from the 60's and 70s' didn't grow up eating for athletics nor with the knowledge of how to train their bodies for athletics. Chris Evert as a teen lived on Coke and McDonald's! She even drank Coke during matches. Egads, no one would do that today!

Gym? Fitness? Weights? Most girls and guys back before the 80's considered that something that only lesbians did!. These girls from early eras grew up hitting tennis balls only.

So of course, just changing racquets wouldn't help the players from the earlier eras be as powerful as today's players. They would have had to grow up in the same era as Serena or even players such as Graf to be as powerful.

I love Serena, but I'm not going to agree that she's the GOAT. That title for me still belongs to Martina Navratilova, who proved she was super woman of her era by being dominate not only in singles, but in doubles, and mixed doubles.

IF Martina had grown up in a similar situation as Serena, and learned the power game, and had Rick Macci and Nick B coaching as a tot on up? Who knows WHAT would have happened in a match between her and Serena.

OR, if Serena had been a teen in the 70's and grew up in the era of Evert and Goologong and Martina, who knows what she would have done had she been trained as they were.

As it stands, that is NOT what happened. Serena grew up several decades apart from Evert or Martina of Evonne, and even further apart from greats such as Billie Jean King or Margaret Court or Darlene Hard or Althea Gibson, and even further from greats such as Suzanne Lenglen, etc.

Therefore these players of different eras can't be fairly compared in terms of how they'd play each other. Its a pointless discussion from Wertheim and anyone else.

By the way, Evert, Goolagong and Martina Navratilova were a pretty formidable group of tennis players! Martina didn't simply win the GOAT title against wimps! Neither did Court (for those who consider her the GOAT), nor Graf (although Seles probably would have given her a tougher time earning those 22 GS times), or Lenglen, or Connolly! All these women played some great players in their own eras.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:06 PM
nice try but that surely isn't all the hypocrite tried to say ...

Its not a try. And Chris is not a hypocrite. All she was doing was encouraging Serena.

Never before have I read Chris tell a player that she could be the best of ever to play the sport, as she did Serena. She has that much respect for Serena as a player. In the end, Chris again respected that Serena would do what she wanted. She was trying to help.

lacigirl
May 12th, 2007, 10:06 PM
omg is that rena on ur avatar:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Yes it is. I :hearts: this picture.

StarDuvallGrant
May 12th, 2007, 10:08 PM
So, the Evert letter was a success from where I stand.

Chris didn't have anything to do with Serena's success.

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 10:09 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/04/04/mailbag/index.html

John Wertheim's Tennis Mailbag.

Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

When I see Serena Williams play as dominating a match as she did against Maria Sharapova [in Key Biscayne], I'm almost more frustrated with Williams. Not with how she's playing now (stellar) but at the years she wasted in Hollywood. She could have gone down as the best ever, don't you think?
-- Ken Schneck, Bronxville, N.Y.

I see your point, though you leave yourself open to the inevitable rebuttal of, "She had a death in the family. This swoon was not all about velvet ropes and eating coconut shrimp at premieres." Personally, I've reached a point with Serena in particular where I accept the contradictions and the wavering commitment as part of the gestalt and move on. A prominent male player recently dismissed Serena to me as "a talent abuser." This echoes Chris Evert's sentiments from last year, too.

I think this misses the point at some level. From day one, Serena approached the sport differently from other players. To both her credit and detriment, she never conformed. And she never will.

If you're looking her to play 18 events or train consistently or hire a coach with technical know-how or stress out about the WTA commitment rules, you'll be disappointed. Never going to happen. And if she costs herself a seat in the Graf-Evert-Navratilova table in the process, so be it. She is who she is, an exceptional player, happy to play on her terms but unwilling to conform to the usual rules and rhythms.

can we now admit sharapova has been far from 100%

serena approaches the game like a lot rich athletes do. she trys to sneak in here and there, but cannot standup to week in and week out competition, unlike the worlds best justine henin.

serena isn't even in the same building as graf-martina-evert. and henin is the best of there generation.

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 10:09 PM
Now Serena is back (more or less -- she's been fighting another injury this time with her thigh -- this season) and motivated and wants to be the best again in tennis (arguably she's the best right now -- but she still has to prove it with ranking points). So, the Evert letter was a success from where I stand.
Serena has a thigh injury?

Anyway, as long as Serena keeps winning Slams and tournaments, she doesn't have to prove she's the best with ranking points. The fact that she hardly plays tennis and still can beat the so-called #1s and #2s bact to back to win big titles is proof enough that she's the best.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Chris didn't have anything to do with Serena's success.

It was a success in terms of getting Serena to think about coming back! Yes, I know that she was doing PT and working with a great doctor (he's a friend of my husband's) on her knee (plus dealing with the person issues regarding her sis' murder -- I live here in LA and followed it --,etc, but I think that Serena got a little angry, and that motivated her more than anything to show that she could be the best again.

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 10:10 PM
can we now admit sharapova has been far from 100%

serena approaches the game like a lot rich athletes do. she trys to sneak in here and there, but cannot standup to week in and week out competition, unlike the worlds best justine henin.

serena isn't even in the same building as graf-martina-evert. and henin is the best of there generation.
Here we go again. :lol:

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 10:13 PM
Serena has a thigh injury?

Anyway, as long as Serena keeps winning Slams and tournaments, she doesn't have to prove she's the best with ranking points. The fact that she hardly plays tennis and still can beat the so-called #1s and #2s bact to back to win big titles is proof enough that she's the best.

henin has won far more tournaments, and will catch serena in slams. serena manges to win a tournament every couple years, and she should be considered the best? :haha:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:16 PM
Anyway, as long as Serena keeps winning Slams and tournaments, she doesn't have to prove she's the best with ranking points. The fact that she hardly plays tennis and still can beat the so-called #1s and #2s bact to back to win big titles is proof enough that she's the best.

To be the GOAT (greatest of all time), she has to have the numbers. Period.

To be the best now, she's proven that she's that already. I agree.

StarDuvallGrant
May 12th, 2007, 10:17 PM
It was a success in terms of getting Serena to think about coming back! Yes, I know that she was doing PT and working with a great doctor (he's a friend of my husband's) on her knee (plus dealing with the person issues regarding her sis' murder -- I live here in LA and followed it --,etc, but I think that Serena got a little angry, and that motivated her more than anything to show that she could be the best again.


Serena was on the come back trail long before Chris' opportunistic letter came out. Serena did make it a note to state that she loves proving haters and detractors wrong and certainly Chris fits into that role, however Serena was making a come back in 2006. Chris' letter alone did not make Serena get on the courts and train (how can it when Serena didn't read it?) - we heard she fought hard for her sister, we heard how she was very upset losing in Hobart and obviously she digs the Warrior role - Serena did not need one simple letter to be motivated. We saw the winning results in 2007 and hopefully we'll continue seeing her drive and determination to be the best that she can be.

ico4498
May 12th, 2007, 10:20 PM
Its not a try. And Chris is not a hypocrite. All she was doing was encouraging Serena.

she is a hypocrite, she took time off from tennis too ...

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 10:20 PM
It was a success in terms of getting Serena to think about coming back! Yes, I know that she was doing PT and working with a great doctor (he's a friend of my husband's) on her knee (plus dealing with the person issues regarding her sis' murder -- I live here in LA and followed it --,etc, but I think that Serena got a little angry, and that motivated her more than anything to show that she could be the best again.
How do you know it was Evert who got Serena to think of coming back? Did Serena tell you that? Did she say to you she was never going to come back to play tennis again if it wasn't for Evert's open letter to her?

StarDuvallGrant
May 12th, 2007, 10:23 PM
How do you know it was Evert who got Serena to think of coming back? Did Serena tell you that? Did she say to you she was never going to come back to play tennis again if it wasn't for Evert's open letter to her?

Actually Serena specifically states she didn't read Chris' letter so again, Chris had nothing to do with Serena's success.

And for those who are seriously concerned with Serena and the greatest of all time label, read Serena's own words on that issue:

http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=10656313&postcount=1

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 10:24 PM
Serena was on the come back trail long before Chris' opportunistic letter came out. Serena did make it a note to state that she loves proving haters and detractors wrong and certainly Chris fits into that role, however Serena was making a come back in 2006. Chris' letter alone did not make Serena get on the courts and train - we heard she fought hard for her sister, we heard how she was very upset losing in Hobart and obviously she digs the Warrior role - Serena did not need one simple letter to be motivated. We saw the winning results in 2007 and hopefully we'll continue seeing her drive and determination to be the best that she can be.
Thank you!

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 10:25 PM
Serena doesn't read hate mail from a "wannabe best tennis player in the world" = NOT EVERt. Serena is and always will be the best tennis player in the world. She doesn't need to prove it again b/c she will always rip "white America's" favorites to shreads; i.e. Sharapova, Mauresmo, Davenport, etc. Just stop the conversation right now before it gets real ugly.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:26 PM
How do you know it was Evert who got Serena to think of coming back? Did Serena tell you that? Did she say to you she was never going to come back to play tennis again if it wasn't for Evert's open letter to her?

I "know" because Serena started talking about what people were asking after the Evert letter. There was ALL kinds of press and many comments from Serena. So, yes, Serena DID tell me and all what she was thinking after that letter!!!

And I never wrote (nor did Evert) that Serena "was never going to come back to play!" That's what YOUUUUUUUUUU and only YOUUUUUUUUU have written above!

I wrote that Evert's letter got Serena sufficiently motivated and angry to come back and prove that she was still the best. It motivated her to put more into her tennis, whereas previously she was concentrating on "other things" (as well as rehabing her knee) according to both her and all reports of her comings and goings while she was off the tour.

terjw
May 12th, 2007, 10:27 PM
Serena has a thigh injury?

Anyway, as long as Serena keeps winning Slams and tournaments, she doesn't have to prove she's the best with ranking points. The fact that she hardly plays tennis and still can beat the so-called #1s and #2s bact to back to win big titles is proof enough that she's the best.

The trouble I have with this sort of post is - yes Serena doesn't have anything to prove and she doesn't have to be #1. But in the real world the true greats - Nav, Evert, Graf and in the men's game recently - Federer, Sampras dominated the game for a lengthy period as well as having an incredible number of slams. And they were undisputed #1 in the rankings year in, year out. You can't have your cake and eat it on this. She can do what she wants but she hasn't attained that dominance at #1 year in year out yet that these other greats have. Right now Serena reminds me more of Agassi with their comebacks than Federer or Sampras.

Of course we don't know what will happen. If she were to dominate the next 3 years I'd put her right up there with the likes of Federer.

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 10:27 PM
It was a success in terms of getting Serena to think about coming back! Yes, I know that she was doing PT and working with a great doctor (he's a friend of my husband's) on her knee (plus dealing with the person issues regarding her sis' murder -- I live here in LA and followed it --,etc, but I think that Serena got a little angry, and that motivated her more than anything to show that she could be the best again.



i agree about chris's intentions, however serena has made several comeback trys long before the letter, and was just getting her tail kicked.

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 10:29 PM
Actually Serena specifically states she didn't read Chris' letter so again, Chris had nothing to do with Serena's success.
And for those who are seriously concerned with Serena and the greatest of all time label, read Serena's own words on that issue:

http://wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=10656313&postcount=1
That's correct! It's amazing how many Serena detractors want to take credit for her success.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:29 PM
b/c she will always rip "white America's" favorites to shreads; i.e. Sharapova, Mauresmo, Davenport, etc. Just stop the conversation right now before it gets real ugly.

What a horribly racist thing to write! I by the way am a black woman, and Serena' being the best is not about her race! Its about her game.

Serena is not playing to "rip white American's favorites to shreads." In fact, the BEST right now are not white AMERICAN'S! They are European.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:31 PM
That's correct! It's amazing how many Serena detractors want to take credit for her success.

I am NOT a Serena detractor. I am one of her fans. Yes, I know that she says that she didn't read the letter from Chris, but she DID hear of it and was asked about it many times since it was written last year. Including Serena being asked about it and a quote from it in the article that you refer to from the UK (which I read the evening that it came out - before it was posted here!).

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 10:32 PM
It's not racist, it's the truth. And for ur info I'm African American also, and there aren't many black players to mention who she rips into pieces.

MrSerenaWilliams
May 12th, 2007, 10:34 PM
I am NOT a Serena detractor. I am one of her fans. Yes, I know that she says that she didn't read the letter from Chris, but she DID hear of it and was asked about it many times since it was written last year. Including Serena being asked about it and a quote from it in the article that you refer to from the UK (which I read the evening that it came out - before it was posted here!).

yeah, that's what I think about it too. It's like, how could she have not at least KNOWN abou it. I mean I think she HEARS about all of the :bs: negative press that she gets, but I don't think she ACTUALLY takes the time out to read it.

which is really smart if you ask me :angel:

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:35 PM
It's not racist, it's the truth. And for ur info I'm African American also, and there aren't many black players to mention who she rips into pieces.

The poster wrote about Serena ripping favorite white American players to shread. Serena is ripping ALLL players to shreds. I believe she would also rip Venus if she was standing between Serena and a GS.

So, its not about black or white! There in fact are as many decent black players these days playing well from America as white. Shenay Perry, Vania King, and Jamea Jackson (a fav or mine -- if she's able to come back) come to mind. Alex Stevenson isn't doing so very well, so I don't add her to the list.

MrSerenaWilliams
May 12th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Damn Right!

StarDuvallGrant
May 12th, 2007, 10:37 PM
That's correct! It's amazing how many Serena detractors want to take credit for her success.

The Chris and Pat Cash types of the world probably felt they tore Serena down to build her up so of course they'd want to take credit :o

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 10:40 PM
The poster wrote about Serena ripping favorite white American players to shread. Serena is ripping ALLL players to shreds. I believe she would also rip Venus if she was standing between Serena and a GS.

So, its not about black or white! There in fact are as many decent black players these days playing well from America as white. Shenay Perry, Vania King, and Jamea Jackson (a fav or mine -- if she's able to come back) come to mind. Alex Stevenson isn't doing so very well, so I don't add her to the list.


Umm...since when was Vania King black? :rolleyes:

MrSerenaWilliams
May 12th, 2007, 10:42 PM
The Chris and Pat Cash types of the world probably felt they tore Serena down to build her up so of course they'd want to take credit :o

I know, which is TOTAL, COMPLETE, AND UTTER :bs:

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 10:43 PM
The poster wrote about Serena ripping favorite white American players to shread. Serena is ripping ALLL players to shreds. I believe she would also rip Venus if she was standing between Serena and a GS.

So, its not about black or white! There in fact are as many decent black players these days playing well from America as white. Shenay Perry, Vania King, and Jamea Jackson (a fav or mine -- if she's able to come back) come to mind. Alex Stevenson isn't doing so very well, so I don't add her to the list.

venus has beaten serena the last few times, and serena has been avoiding practicing with venus. venus will end up with the lifetime h2h advantage. as far as serena ripping up the field, when did this happen? serena trounced an injured maria, as has struggled against everyone else(won a whole 2 tournaments). and we wont even talk about 2006. and now shes ducking out of the clay.

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:46 PM
It's not racist, it's the truth. And for ur info I'm African American also, and there aren't many black players to mention who she rips into pieces.

She hasn't played the black players that I looked up by luck of the draw. I just checked the head to head against Perry, Jackson and King -- and its 0 - 0. But IF she played them, I'm sure Serena would treat them like any other player and win.

Her head to head with Venus is tied I see. But, I never believed that there was any fix between the sisters as some claimed, and that Serena would play her best against Venus. Which means, at this time, I believe Serena would win.

I think that Serena is the best player in the world at the moment, so why wouldn't Serena be most likely to win over any one? Regardless of a players race, creed, or color. Its not about that, its about the players game, and how well they play it. She beat the number one player (Shriek) at the AO and the next number 1 (Henin) at Miami.

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 10:47 PM
venus has beaten serena the last few times, and serena has been avoiding practicing with venus. venus will end up with the lifetime h2h advantage. as far as serena ripping up the field, when did this happen? serena trounced an injured maria, as has struggled against everyone else(won a whole 2 tournaments). and we wont even talk about 2006. and now shes ducking out of the clay.

Ok, here we go again. I am sooooooooooo tired of hearing that Serena crushed her b/c she was injured. If she was injured in January, she was still injured in March?! PLEASE!!!! She has not struggled against everyone else and beat Vaidisova, and Peer twice and easily. She beat Henin in an impressive display and Henin is the undisputed number one?!!! I don't know what u people are seeing I just can't wait for the French Open. Believe me!

ico4498
May 12th, 2007, 10:50 PM
The Chris and Pat Cash types of the world probably felt they tore Serena down to build her up so of course they'd want to take credit :o

yup, they tried to tear her apart in the press just to help. thats the ticket!

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 12th, 2007, 10:52 PM
venus has beaten serena the last few times, and serena has been avoiding practicing with venus. venus will end up with the lifetime h2h advantage. as far as serena ripping up the field, when did this happen? serena trounced an injured maria, as has struggled against everyone else(won a whole 2 tournaments). and we wont even talk about 2006. and now shes ducking out of the clay.

At the AO a lot of players were struggling with the heat, so I didn't figure that what was happening with Shriek was too much more than what was happening with everyone. Serena struggled in a couple of matches (Petrova probablys hould have beaten her in the AO). Shriek came into the AO tournament dominant. So, no excuses.

As for Miami, I know that Serena says that Venus was beating her in practice. Shriek beat Venus. Which means that whatever was "bothering" Shriek didn't effect her beating a player who Serena considers tough. Then Serena beat Shriek.

Suddenly, we find out that Shriek had a shoulder injury! Okay. Still, if you show up to play, you're well! So, it was a fair win for Serena. No excuses.

Shriek beat Serena when she was clearly very injured and barely able to serve or even hit her groundies during one of the YEC's, yet Shriek celebrated it as a win. As she should. A W is a W!

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 10:56 PM
At the AO a lot of players were struggling with the heat, so I didn't figure that what was happening with Shriek was too much more than what was happening with everyone. Serena struggled in a couple of matches (Petrova probablys hould have beaten her in the AO). Shriek came into the AO tournament dominant. So, no excuses.

As for Miami, I know that Serena says that Venus was beating her in practice. Shriek beat Venus. Which means that whatever was "bothering" Shriek didn't effect her beating a player who Serena considers tough. Then Serena beat Shriek.

Suddenly, we find out that Shriek had a shoulder injury! Okay. Still, if you show up to play, you're well! So, it was a fair win for Serena. No excuses.

Shriek beat Serena when she was clearly very injured and barely able to serve or even hit her groundies during one of the YEC's, yet Shriek celebrated it as a win. As she should. A W is a W!

I agreed with u all the way up to the end. If a player is "injured" before the match, ("like Sharapova"), and decided to play "injured", than a win is a win. If a player is injured during the match, (like Serena at the YEC in 2004), than it is basically defaulted. Serena could barely serve at that match and was obviously in pain. I'm sorry that is NOT a win.

Chrissie-fan
May 12th, 2007, 10:59 PM
Serena does things on her terms...even if it costs her a place amongst the all time greats.

Wertheim:

" But I do agree with Roger's other premise: Head-to-head, Serena beats everyone. Ply all the greats with the same racket, pit them in a tournament and my money is on Williams. And I think that should have some bearing on how history recalls her. "


Of course Serena will never surpass some of the greats in numbers. But those
numbers are only relevant to who they played in their generation. While
numbers, stats, and longivity have their place, I think it comes down to
Who would beat the rest. I, and apparently Wortheim, think that's Serena.

Not only does she have a place amongst the all time greats I think
She sits at the head of the table.
Why won't Serena surpass past greats in numbers? Federer does it overall and Nadal is on the longest claycourt winning streak in history. I guess todays players on the male side are not as strong and fast as they used to be....

The table with all time greats is round, so no one is sitting at the head. Serena is playing for the right to join them at that table. She doesn't have to win a zillion slams to do so IMO, because in the modern game injuries occur more frequently and careers are shorter. And yes, I think she will make it.

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 11:00 PM
At the AO a lot of players were struggling with the heat, so I didn't figure that what was happening with Shriek was too much more than what was happening with everyone. Serena struggled in a couple of matches (Petrova probablys hould have beaten her in the AO). Shriek came into the AO tournament dominant. So, no excuses.

As for Miami, I know that Serena says that Venus was beating her in practice. Shriek beat Venus. Which means that whatever was "bothering" Shriek didn't effect her beating a player who Serena considers tough. Then Serena beat Shriek.

Suddenly, we find out that Shriek had a shoulder injury! Okay. Still, if you show up to play, you're well! So, it was a fair win for Serena. No excuses.

Shriek beat Serena when she was clearly very injured and barely able to serve or even hit her groundies during one of the YEC's, yet Shriek celebrated it as a win. As she should. A W is a W!

lol, like serenas never made excuses.

great then serena should have no excuses for her 2 early round exits this year, and all her loses over the last 2-3 years, or 2004 wimbledon or 2004 yearend champs.

nobodys ever in shape for the ao, so serena uses it for a good backdoor play, especially when justine isn't there.

sharapovas lost to invanovic, zonereva, shes been terrible all year. when serena can play a full year and finish #1, then talk.

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 11:03 PM
There is no requirement on a what a "full year" is. She can play the 4 grand slams, miami, and the YEC, win all of them and then what? She will finish number one and then I will be talking so loud and so much that u will be sick of it! :>)

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 11:07 PM
The trouble I have with this sort of post is - yes Serena doesn't have anything to prove and she doesn't have to be #1. But in the real world the true greats - Nav, Evert, Graf and in the men's game recently - Federer, Sampras dominated the game for a lengthy period as well as having an incredible number of slams. And they were undisputed #1 in the rankings year in, year out. You can't have your cake and eat it on this. She can do what she wants but she hasn't attained that dominance at #1 year in year out yet that these other greats have. Right now Serena reminds me more of Agassi with their comebacks than Federer or Sampras.

Of course we don't know what will happen. If she were to dominate the next 3 years I'd put her right up there with the likes of Federer.
I understand your point, but Serena is not going to play lots of tournaments to prove to anyone that she's attained dominance at #1 year after year. As she herself just stated in a recent article, she doesn't concerned herself with history and compared herself to former greats...Nav, Evert, Graf, etc...who dominated the game. If she were, she would definitely play a lot more tennis. Winning Grand Slams is her #1 priority. Besides, unlike the ATP, these days, being ranked #1 in the WTA doesn't mean that you're the best and dominant. Serena has proven that over and over again.

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 11:08 PM
There is no requirement on a what a "full year" is. She can play the 4 grand slams, miami, and the YEC, win all of them and then what? She will finish number one and then I will be talking so loud and so much that u will be sick of it! :>)

and pigs can fly.

and whose been consistently the best for the last 4 years?

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Yeah, they'll be flying by November! Or u could say, "And Sharapova's going to win the French" HA!

ico4498
May 12th, 2007, 11:12 PM
and whose been consistently the best for the last 4 years?

read the rankings and stop begging ...

Bijoux0021
May 12th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I "know" because Serena started talking about what people were asking after the Evert letter. There was ALL kinds of press and many comments from Serena. So, yes, Serena DID tell me and all what she was thinking after that letter!!!

And I never wrote (nor did Evert) that Serena "was never going to come back to play!" That's what YOUUUUUUUUUU and only YOUUUUUUUUU have written above!

I wrote that Evert's letter got Serena sufficiently motivated and angry to come back and prove that she was still the best. It motivated her to put more into her tennis, whereas previously she was concentrating on "other things" (as well as rehabing her knee) according to both her and all reports of her comings and goings while she was off the tour.
Again, when did Serena say to you that Evert's letter got her motivated and angry to come back?

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 11:14 PM
read the rankings and stop begging ...

:lol:

volta
May 12th, 2007, 11:16 PM
Yes it is. I :hearts: this picture.

can you pm it to me OMG i never saw that one :lick: :drool:

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 11:17 PM
read the rankings and stop begging ...

i suppose theres something profound somewhere here. :eek:


serena's #1 right?

or wait serena beat justine barely on her homecourt once in 3 years?

doni1212
May 12th, 2007, 11:19 PM
No, u just asked whose been consistenly on top the last four years. Well, it wasn't Justine Henin; that name wasn't on the rankings, lol.

Chrissie-fan
May 12th, 2007, 11:21 PM
The trouble I have with this sort of post is - yes Serena doesn't have anything to prove and she doesn't have to be #1. But in the real world the true greats - Nav, Evert, Graf and in the men's game recently - Federer, Sampras dominated the game for a lengthy period as well as having an incredible number of slams. And they were undisputed #1 in the rankings year in, year out. You can't have your cake and eat it on this. She can do what she wants but she hasn't attained that dominance at #1 year in year out yet that these other greats have. Right now Serena reminds me more of Agassi with their comebacks than Federer or Sampras.

Well, Agassi qualifies as a tier 1 ATG in my opinion. He doesn't have the years of incredible dominance in the rankings, but he has other things to compensate for that: Winner of ALL FOUR slams, Olympic gold, YEC, longevity. Incredible career by anyone's standards really.

ico4498
May 12th, 2007, 11:22 PM
i suppose theres something profound somewhere here. :eek:


serena's #1 right?

nothing earth shattering ... you're just another lazy wtaworld poster unworthy of the 10 secs it took me to reply. bye! :wavey:

10s4life
May 12th, 2007, 11:25 PM
Well, Agassi qualifies as a tier 1 ATG in my opinion. He doesn't have the years of incredible dominance in the rankings, but he has other things to compensate for that: Winner of ALL FOUR slams, Olympic gold, YEC, longevity. Incredible career by anyone's standards really.

sure he does, near the bottom of tier 1 thats all.

Chrissie-fan
May 12th, 2007, 11:42 PM
I agreed with u all the way up to the end. If a player is "injured" before the match, ("like Sharapova"), and decided to play "injured", than a win is a win. If a player is injured during the match, (like Serena at the YEC in 2004), than it is basically defaulted. Serena could barely serve at that match and was obviously in pain. I'm sorry that is NOT a win.
I wonder if you would make the same argument if Sharapova had been in Serena's position and vice-versa though.

Both are legitimate wins IMO. Wins over an injured opponent, but legitimate nonetheless.

mykarma
May 13th, 2007, 12:55 AM
Williams sisters whine and complain? I don't know what you've been smoking, but whatever it is, you need to put it down real quick. I'm pretty sure, however, you've been drinking some Haterade.
:worship::worship::worship:

mykarma
May 13th, 2007, 01:04 AM
It was a success in terms of getting Serena to think about coming back! Yes, I know that she was doing PT and working with a great doctor (he's a friend of my husband's) on her knee (plus dealing with the person issues regarding her sis' murder -- I live here in LA and followed it --,etc, but I think that Serena got a little angry, and that motivated her more than anything to show that she could be the best again.
:lol::lol::lol:

SJW
May 13th, 2007, 01:31 AM
i suppose theres something profound somewhere here. :eek:


serena's #1 right?

or wait serena beat justine barely on her homecourt once in 3 years?

You really don't want to get into a Justine vs Serena battle.
The supposed "best player of there (sic) generation" had 2mps and a 6-0 5-4 40-15 headstart and she still lost.
Against someone who hadn't played a tournament in 2 months, while she was the in-form player.
Against someone who "only wins a title every couple of years".
Against someone who has "struggled against everybody but Sharapova" this year.
The "undisputed world #1" vs the world number...11 is it? (Forgive me, Serena has proved to me there's no point in following the rankings :))
They're both fantastic players, both have made 4 grandslams in a row.
Difference is, Serena managed to win all of hers.
Superior h2h, more slams, better career winning percentage, better h2h vs former #1s...should I keep going?
Not to mention she's handed Henin a beating on every single surface.
Every. Single. One. Think about it.
Serena has won the two biggest titles of the year to date. JH is doing a fantastic job of cleaning up everything else.
The story of their "rivalry" to date really. Am I correct in saying the only slam JH has won while Serena has been in the draw is FO 03?
And I'm not even gonna get into that :angel:...

OrdinaryfoolisNJ
May 13th, 2007, 01:35 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

I like how you disagree! No name calling and you've made your point. I respect that.

Moderators, IF you expect me to pay for a premium membership, I suggest having the name callers and insulters opperate like "mykarma!" I got the point -- but I could at least appreciate and laugh while feeling it! :worship:

Slutiana
May 13th, 2007, 07:15 AM
You really don't want to get into a Justine vs Serena battle.
The supposed "best player of there (sic) generation" had 2mps and a 6-0 5-4 40-15 headstart and she still lost.
Against someone who hadn't played a tournament in 2 months, while she was the in-form player.
Against someone who "only wins a title every couple of years".
Against someone who has "struggled against everybody but Sharapova" this year.
The "undisputed world #1" vs the world number...11 is it? (Forgive me, Serena has proved to me there's no point in following the rankings :))
They're both fantastic players, both have made 4 grandslams in a row.
Difference is, Serena managed to win all of hers.
Superior h2h, more slams, better career winning percentage, better h2h vs former #1s...should I keep going?
Not to mention she's handed Henin a beating on every single surface.
Every. Single. One. Think about it.
Serena has won the two biggest titles of the year to date. JH is doing a fantastic job of cleaning up everything else.
The story of their "rivalry" to date really. Am I correct in saying the only slam JH has won while Serena has been in the draw is FO 03?
And I'm not even gonna get into that :angel:...

WOW...great post...u are getting a million reps once i spread it around;):worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

also about the 03 FO...we all know she won with her hand, rather than good tennis.....

BuTtErFrEnA
May 13th, 2007, 11:46 AM
You really don't want to get into a Justine vs Serena battle.
The supposed "best player of there (sic) generation" had 2mps and a 6-0 5-4 40-15 headstart and she still lost.
Against someone who hadn't played a tournament in 2 months, while she was the in-form player.
Against someone who "only wins a title every couple of years".
Against someone who has "struggled against everybody but Sharapova" this year.
The "undisputed world #1" vs the world number...11 is it? (Forgive me, Serena has proved to me there's no point in following the rankings :))
They're both fantastic players, both have made 4 grandslams in a row.
Difference is, Serena managed to win all of hers.
Superior h2h, more slams, better career winning percentage, better h2h vs former #1s...should I keep going?
Not to mention she's handed Henin a beating on every single surface.
Every. Single. One. Think about it.
Serena has won the two biggest titles of the year to date. JH is doing a fantastic job of cleaning up everything else.
The story of their "rivalry" to date really. Am I correct in saying the only slam JH has won while Serena has been in the draw is FO 03?
And I'm not even gonna get into that :angel:...

fabulous:worship: :worship: although one question to the haters....why then if Serena plays so infrequently did she beat the "injured" MaSha as well as a perfectly healthy JH?? shouldn't she still be 139 in the world with how poorly and infrequently she plays not at all due to any sort of injury??

doni1212
May 13th, 2007, 01:09 PM
You really don't want to get into a Justine vs Serena battle.
The supposed "best player of there (sic) generation" had 2mps and a 6-0 5-4 40-15 headstart and she still lost.
Against someone who hadn't played a tournament in 2 months, while she was the in-form player.
Against someone who "only wins a title every couple of years".
Against someone who has "struggled against everybody but Sharapova" this year.
The "undisputed world #1" vs the world number...11 is it? (Forgive me, Serena has proved to me there's no point in following the rankings :))
They're both fantastic players, both have made 4 grandslams in a row.
Difference is, Serena managed to win all of hers.
Superior h2h, more slams, better career winning percentage, better h2h vs former #1s...should I keep going?
Not to mention she's handed Henin a beating on every single surface.
Every. Single. One. Think about it.
Serena has won the two biggest titles of the year to date. JH is doing a fantastic job of cleaning up everything else.
The story of their "rivalry" to date really. Am I correct in saying the only slam JH has won while Serena has been in the draw is FO 03?
And I'm not even gonna get into that :angel:...

Thanks, that was just perfect.

Bijoux0021
May 13th, 2007, 02:12 PM
You really don't want to get into a Justine vs Serena battle.
The supposed "best player of there (sic) generation" had 2mps and a 6-0 5-4 40-15 headstart and she still lost.
Against someone who hadn't played a tournament in 2 months, while she was the in-form player.
Against someone who "only wins a title every couple of years".
Against someone who has "struggled against everybody but Sharapova" this year.
The "undisputed world #1" vs the world number...11 is it? (Forgive me, Serena has proved to me there's no point in following the rankings :))
They're both fantastic players, both have made 4 grandslams in a row.
Difference is, Serena managed to win all of hers.
Superior h2h, more slams, better career winning percentage, better h2h vs former #1s...should I keep going?
Not to mention she's handed Henin a beating on every single surface.
Every. Single. One. Think about it.
Serena has won the two biggest titles of the year to date. JH is doing a fantastic job of cleaning up everything else.
The story of their "rivalry" to date really. Am I correct in saying the only slam JH has won while Serena has been in the draw is FO 03?
And I'm not even gonna get into that :angel:...
:bigclap: :worship: :clap2: BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! :clap2: :worship: :bigclap:

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 02:25 PM
I still say that eras canNOT be compared, so no one can say who would beat who head to head.

Its not about the racquets only, its about how the players grew up and how they trained in the time period in which they learned the sport.

Players from the 60's and 70s' didn't grow up eating for athletics nor with the knowledge of how to train their bodies for athletics. Chris Evert as a teen lived on Coke and McDonald's! She even drank Coke during matches. Egads, no one would do that today!

Gym? Fitness? Weights? Most girls and guys back before the 80's considered that something that only lesbians did!. These girls from early eras grew up hitting tennis balls only.

So of course, just changing racquets wouldn't help the players from the earlier eras be as powerful as today's players. They would have had to grow up in the same era as Serena or even players such as Graf to be as powerful.

I love Serena, but I'm not going to agree that she's the GOAT. That title for me still belongs to Martina Navratilova, who proved she was super woman of her era by being dominate not only in singles, but in doubles, and mixed doubles.

IF Martina had grown up in a similar situation as Serena, and learned the power game, and had Rick Macci and Nick B coaching as a tot on up? Who knows WHAT would have happened in a match between her and Serena.

OR, if Serena had been a teen in the 70's and grew up in the era of Evert and Goologong and Martina, who knows what she would have done had she been trained as they were.

As it stands, that is NOT what happened. Serena grew up several decades apart from Evert or Martina of Evonne, and even further apart from greats such as Billie Jean King or Margaret Court or Darlene Hard or Althea Gibson, and even further from greats such as Suzanne Lenglen, etc.

Therefore these players of different eras can't be fairly compared in terms of how they'd play each other. Its a pointless discussion from Wertheim and anyone else.

By the way, Evert, Goolagong and Martina Navratilova were a pretty formidable group of tennis players! Martina didn't simply win the GOAT title against wimps! Neither did Court (for those who consider her the GOAT), nor Graf (although Seles probably would have given her a tougher time earning those 22 GS times), or Lenglen, or Connolly! All these women played some great players in their own eras.


I agree that these comparisons are unfair to the older players.
But many still do it. Athletes of today are better than athletes of
yesterday. Thats the natural progression. And Serena IMO is rung above
most athletes today.

If Serena had the same atitude as Nav, concentrating on Tennis 24-7
to the exclusion of all else I think her numbers would compare to
Graf and Nav and this conversation would be moot. The fact that
She doesn't have that atitude does not diminish her abilities.

The same applies to doubles. Serena is 94-15 in doubles with the
career GS. And some of those 15 were withdrawals for injury to
her or Vee and other reasons. But there is little doubt that if
She and Venus had the Tennis above all else atitude and played a
lot of doubles they would be the best team of all times. A good
example is that GS when they entered doubles and weren't even
ranked because they hadn't played in a long time. The Tournament
seeded them # 1. This made the reigning # 1 team very angry.
The Sisters won anyway.

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 02:40 PM
To be the GOAT (greatest of all time), she has to have the numbers. Period.

To be the best now, she's proven that she's that already. I agree.


Many people have this thing about Numbers. Another poster in a
similar thread once asked the question

If Graf or Nav, in a match against Serena, brought all of their
trophies to the court how many points would they win for them?

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 02:45 PM
It was a success in terms of getting Serena to think about coming back! Yes, I know that she was doing PT and working with a great doctor (he's a friend of my husband's) on her knee (plus dealing with the person issues regarding her sis' murder -- I live here in LA and followed it --,etc, but I think that Serena got a little angry, and that motivated her more than anything to show that she could be the best again.


Serena says she never read the open letter Chris Evert addressed to her, but there was one question in it, I tell her, that I've been wondering about, too: 'Do you ever consider your place in history?'

'I don't,' she says, shaking her head. 'I think when my career is over, then I'll look back, I'll look at everything that I've done and I'll probably drop to my knees and be like, "Wow, how did I accomplish all that?" But this keeps me hungry. If I thought, "Oh, I'm historic," my head would be crazy. Honestly, at the end of the day I come home to my dogs and my sister. I have friends, and I cry when I see movies, and I watch reality TV ...'

She shrugs, and I think: 'Who needs fairy tales, after all, when such a great story can be as simple as this?'

'I'm Serena,' she says, 'And that's all I am. I've never considered history.'

Chrissie-fan
May 13th, 2007, 02:47 PM
Athletes of today are better than athletes of yesterday. Thats the natural progression.
Not talking about Serena, or anyone else in particular, but just how "natural" that progression in sports is.....let's just say that there are a lot of unanswered questions about that. ;)

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 03:05 PM
The trouble I have with this sort of post is - yes Serena doesn't have anything to prove and she doesn't have to be #1. But in the real world the true greats - Nav, Evert, Graf and in the men's game recently - Federer, Sampras dominated the game for a lengthy period as well as having an incredible number of slams. And they were undisputed #1 in the rankings year in, year out. You can't have your cake and eat it on this. She can do what she wants but she hasn't attained that dominance at #1 year in year out yet that these other greats have. Right now Serena reminds me more of Agassi with their comebacks than Federer or Sampras.

Of course we don't know what will happen. If she were to dominate the next 3 years I'd put her right up there with the likes of Federer.


# 1 does not have the same meaning these days. Players have learned
that you can reach a high rank without winning tournaments. Just play
every week and go fairly deep in the draw. Look at Janko. She is
rising in the ranks like a rocket. She hasn't won a slam and I think
only won a small tourny this year. Its possible that she could reach
# 1 this year in this manner.

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 03:11 PM
venus has beaten serena the last few times, and serena has been avoiding practicing with venus. venus will end up with the lifetime h2h advantage. as far as serena ripping up the field, when did this happen? serena trounced an injured maria, as has struggled against everyone else(won a whole 2 tournaments). and we wont even talk about 2006. and now shes ducking out of the clay.


The only injury Maria suffered from was Serenaitis.

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 03:25 PM
Why won't Serena surpass past greats in numbers? Federer does it overall and Nadal is on the longest claycourt winning streak in history. I guess todays players on the male side are not as strong and fast as they used to be....

The table with all time greats is round, so no one is sitting at the head. Serena is playing for the right to join them at that table. She doesn't have to win a zillion slams to do so IMO, because in the modern game injuries occur more frequently and careers are shorter. And yes, I think she will make it.


Hi Chrissy-fan. Read your messages.

Serena doesn't and never has played played a full schedule and I know
she won't still be playing at 50 yrs old like Nav. So she will not
amass the numbers Nav has. It will be very difficult for any of today's
players to do it with the dynamics of todays game that you stated.

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 03:38 PM
You really don't want to get into a Justine vs Serena battle.
The supposed "best player of there (sic) generation" had 2mps and a 6-0 5-4 40-15 headstart and she still lost.
Against someone who hadn't played a tournament in 2 months, while she was the in-form player.
Against someone who "only wins a title every couple of years".
Against someone who has "struggled against everybody but Sharapova" this year.
The "undisputed world #1" vs the world number...11 is it? (Forgive me, Serena has proved to me there's no point in following the rankings :))
They're both fantastic players, both have made 4 grandslams in a row.
Difference is, Serena managed to win all of hers.
Superior h2h, more slams, better career winning percentage, better h2h vs former #1s...should I keep going?
Not to mention she's handed Henin a beating on every single surface.
Every. Single. One. Think about it.
Serena has won the two biggest titles of the year to date. JH is doing a fantastic job of cleaning up everything else.
The story of their "rivalry" to date really. Am I correct in saying the only slam JH has won while Serena has been in the draw is FO 03?
And I'm not even gonna get into that :angel:...


By George I think you've got it.

mykarma
May 13th, 2007, 04:00 PM
I like how you disagree! No name calling and you've made your point. I respect that.

Moderators, IF you expect me to pay for a premium membership, I suggest having the name callers and insulters opperate like "mykarma!" I got the point -- but I could at least appreciate and laugh while feeling it! :worship:
I thought everyone knew that I was an :angel:. :worship:

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 04:02 PM
Not talking about Serena, or anyone else in particular, but just how "natural" that progression in sports is.....let's just say that there are a lot of unanswered questions about that. ;)


Through out the history of sport there has been progression.
They thought it was impossible to run a 4 min mile until Roger
Bannister did it. Or Beamon beating the world long jump record
by 2 feet. Its why records continue to be broken.

mykarma
May 13th, 2007, 04:04 PM
The only injury Maria suffered from was Serenaitis.
You got a rep coming. :worship:

Chrissie-fan
May 13th, 2007, 04:51 PM
Through out the history of sport there has been progression.
They thought it was impossible to run a 4 min mile until Roger
Bannister did it. Or Beamon beating the world long jump record
by 2 feet. Its why records continue to be broken.
Obviously, but I think that a lot of that progression has been, at least in part, the result of less than natural means.

How many of those world records in track & field (or swimming for that matter) can we take seriously considering the number of scandals there have been in recent (and not so recent) history? Who knows how fast Jesse Owens would have been if he too would have been filled up to his ears with steroids, growth hormone and God only knows what else?

In cycling (a minor sport in the US, but huge in Europe) there are new revelations on a daily basis, involving nearly all of the big (and not so big) names from the 1970's up to today. Announce that there's going to be drug testing at a weightlifting tournament and more than half of the contestants go home because they all of a sudden are injured (happened for real a few years ago). In boxing fighters move up in weight but don't look any fatter. They just add five or ten (or more) pounds of muscles in a matter of months. Somehow I don't believe that this is only the result from hitting the heavy bag. Countless other examples can be given by people who have more knowledge about sports in general than me, I'm sure.

I can't prove it, but it sounds terribly naive to me to think that a high profile sport such as tennis would be exempt from that type of cheating. I'm not accusing anyone, because the chance that my faves aren't 100% kosher is just as big as anyone elses. It always amuses me when players are called cheats on these boards for disputing a line-call or something minor like that. How trivial compared to what is probably going on without us knowing about it.

rjd1111
May 13th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Obviously, but I think that a lot of that progression has been, at least in part, the result of less than natural means.

How many of those world records in track & field (or swimming for that matter) can we take seriously considering the number of scandals there have been in recent (and not so recent) history? Who knows how fast Jesse Owens would have been if he too would have been filled up to his ears with steroids, growth hormone and God only knows what else?

In cycling (a minor sport in the US, but huge in Europe) there are new revelations on a daily basis, involving nearly all of the big (and not so big) names from the 1970's up to today. Announce that there's going to be drug testing at a weightlifting tournament and more than half of the contestants go home because they all of a sudden are injured (happened for real a few years ago). In boxing fighters move up in weight but don't look any fatter. They just add five or ten (or more) pounds of muscles in a matter of months. Somehow I don't believe that this is only the result from hitting the heavy bag. Countless other examples can be given by people who have more knowledge about sports in general than me, I'm sure.

I can't prove it, but it sounds terribly naive to me to think that a high profile sport such as tennis would be exempt from that type of cheating. I'm not accusing anyone, because the chance that my faves aren't 100% kosher is just as big as anyone elses. It always amuses me when players are called cheats on these boards for disputing a line-call or something minor like that. How trivial compared to what is probably going on without us knowing about it.


Okay, didn't think about the 'roids. You are correct.

They use steroids as a major shortcut to success. Without them
the progression would still happen. It would just mean the athletes
would have to go back to working harder and it would take longer.

spencercarlos
May 13th, 2007, 06:42 PM
Obviously, but I think that a lot of that progression has been, at least in part, the result of less than natural means.

How many of those world records in track & field (or swimming for that matter) can we take seriously considering the number of scandals there have been in recent (and not so recent) history? Who knows how fast Jesse Owens would have been if he too would have been filled up to his ears with steroids, growth hormone and God only knows what else?

In cycling (a minor sport in the US, but huge in Europe) there are new revelations on a daily basis, involving nearly all of the big (and not so big) names from the 1970's up to today. Announce that there's going to be drug testing at a weightlifting tournament and more than half of the contestants go home because they all of a sudden are injured (happened for real a few years ago). In boxing fighters move up in weight but don't look any fatter. They just add five or ten (or more) pounds of muscles in a matter of months. Somehow I don't believe that this is only the result from hitting the heavy bag. Countless other examples can be given by people who have more knowledge about sports in general than me, I'm sure.

I can't prove it, but it sounds terribly naive to me to think that a high profile sport such as tennis would be exempt from that type of cheating. I'm not accusing anyone, because the chance that my faves aren't 100% kosher is just as big as anyone elses. It always amuses me when players are called cheats on these boards for disputing a line-call or something minor like that. How trivial compared to what is probably going on without us knowing about it.
Oh Chrissie way too much sense in post for a kind of thread like this an most of its participants.

All you need to know today is:
1-Serena "would" have killed any of the previous world number ones
2-Serena "would" have played the way she plays today in previous eras because she is simply better than anyone ever
3-Serena plays whenever she wants
4-Serena wins whenever she wants
5-Serena is the GOAT no matter what (despite all of the above and despite we know that she is not even near or close to break any of the all time records).
And anything that goes away from those premises makes you a hater and a racist whore.

jacobruiz
May 13th, 2007, 06:42 PM
The only injury Maria suffered from was Serenaitis.

That's obviously a lie but apparantly you think if you post it often enough in as many threads as you can it will become true.:lol:

Emina.
May 13th, 2007, 06:46 PM
That's obviously a lie but apparantly you think if you post it often enough in as many threads as you can it will become true.:lol:

i dont understand why they have to mention Maria in every Serena thread and Serena in every Maria thread :shrug:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 14th, 2007, 02:38 AM
Many people have this thing about Numbers. Another poster in a
similar thread once asked the question

If Graf or Nav, in a match against Serena, brought all of their
trophies to the court how many points would they win for them?

numbers don't really show the truth...if me and my friend went to the store and I have $99 and she has $1 the average is $50 which isn't true...JJ won the most matches this year but in no way is she dominant while JH and Serena have played less and have won almost everything....Serena has a rank of #11 but has beaten everyone including JH while JJ is #5 and can't get past JH

Zweli
May 14th, 2007, 11:45 AM
numbers don't really show the truth...if me and my friend went to the store and I have $99 and she has $1 the average is $50 which isn't true...JJ won the most matches this year but in no way is she dominant while JH and Serena have played less and have won almost everything....Serena has a rank of #11 but has beaten everyone including JH while JJ is #5 and can't get past JH

TRUE,TRUE,TRUE.

rjd1111
May 14th, 2007, 08:57 PM
That's obviously a lie but apparantly you think if you post it often enough in as many threads as you can it will become true.:lol:


Not to me. There was no sign of an injury until after
the second beatdown. Then she tried to retro it to the first beatdown
2 months earlier. How many players play injured for more than 2 months.
Something is very obvious to me.

rjd1111
May 14th, 2007, 09:13 PM
i dont understand why they have to mention Maria in every Serena thread and Serena in every Maria thread :shrug:

I understand why.

spencercarlos
May 14th, 2007, 09:19 PM
Not to me. There was no sign of an injury until after
the second beatdown. Then she tried to retro it to the first beatdown
2 months earlier. How many players play injured for more than 2 months.
Something is very obvious to me.
Sure something was not quite right with Sharapova, who served really well at the Usopen while winning the title, but already in her match against Kim Clijsters (which she won 6-4 6-2) she served 8 double faults. 6 DF against Anna Ch in the quarters. Ended up serving 6 in the Serena match which was shorter.

While losing 6-1 6-1 in Miami she served 8. 13 DF served against Venus :eek:

Being an injury or not simply something is not quite right with her serve. And i don´t think Serena has been the problem.

Denise4925
May 14th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Sure something was not quite right with Sharapova, who served really well at the Usopen while winning the title, but already in her match against Kim Clijsters (which she won 6-4 6-2) she served 8 double faults. 6 DF against Anna Ch in the quarters. Ended up serving 6 in the Serena match which was shorter.

While losing 6-1 6-1 in Miami she served 8. 13 DF served against Venus :eek:

Being an injury or not simply something is not quite right with her serve. And i don´t think Serena has been the problem.

Of course not. :rolleyes:

spencercarlos
May 14th, 2007, 09:35 PM
Of course not. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: I never meant to say that Serena was not problem when she lost to her both at the Australian Open and Miami, only deluded fans like you would think. Serena was impecable in both matches and would have won anyway.
I was refeering to her serving problems, which again the deluded ones give full credit to Serena :lol: :rolleyes:

Denise4925
May 14th, 2007, 09:46 PM
:rolleyes: I never meant to say that Serena was not problem when she lost to her both at the Australian Open and Miami, only deluded fans like you would think. Serena was impecable in both matches and would have won anyway.
I was refeering to her serving problems, which again the deluded ones give full credit to Serena :lol: :rolleyes:

Well say what you mean and stop seemingly talking out of your ass.:rolleyes:

Pureracket
May 14th, 2007, 09:54 PM
:rolleyes: I never meant to say that Serena was not problem when she lost to her both at the Australian Open and Miami, only deluded fans like you would think. Serena was impecable in both matches and would have won anyway.
I was refeering to her serving problems, which again the deluded ones give full credit to Serena :lol: :rolleyes:For us Serena fans to be so deluded, you sure do stay in our threads alot.

Slutiana
May 14th, 2007, 10:01 PM
^all These Serena And Venus Fans...dont Argue..theres No Need..we're All On The Same Side Here!!!

Denise4925
May 14th, 2007, 10:11 PM
^all These Serena And Venus Fans...dont Argue..theres No Need..we're All On The Same Side Here!!!

spencercarlos is far from being a Venus or Serena fan.

spencercarlos
May 14th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Well say what you mean and stop seemingly talking out of your ass.:rolleyes:
Ok Deluded next rule about this board.
7-) Sharapova is "injured", off the tour resting it and having problems with her serve because of Serena :lol:

Denise4925
May 14th, 2007, 10:14 PM
Ok Deluded next rule about this board.
7-) Sharapova is "injured", off the tour resting it and having problems with her serve because of Serena :lol:

You seem to be not only deluded but retarded as well. I never said Maria wasn't having problems with her serve. Stop trying to make something out of nothing. You're the one who never gives credit where it's due to the WS, I called you on it, you backpeddaled and I told you to say what you mean. :rolleyes: Simple as that.

Pureracket
May 14th, 2007, 10:25 PM
You seem to be not only deluded but retarded as well. I never said Maria wasn't having problems with her serve. Stop trying to make something out of nothing. You're the one who never gives credit where it's due to the WS, I called you on it, you backpeddaled and I told you to say what you mean. :rolleyes: Simple as that.You're about to get badreps because he does have a mental disability.

Vlover
May 14th, 2007, 11:10 PM
^all These Serena And Venus Fans...dont Argue..theres No Need..we're All On The Same Side Here!!!

Don't be fooled by spencercarlos avatar because his sole reason for using it is because in his warped mind he thinks its unflattering picture of Venus. He's like a parasite that can't survive without them.:devil:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 14th, 2007, 11:38 PM
Don't be fooled by spencercarlos avatar because his sole reason for using it is because in his warped mind he thinks its unflattering picture of Venus. He's like a parasite that can't survive without them.:devil:

what I don't get is that when the sisters were having a bad period it was because of their outside interests and not because of any injuries but now for MaSha everything is due to the injuries....double standard :rolleyes: yes and from his posts in every thread dealing with the sisters you can tell that he just has that pic there cause he thinks it's ever so bad...hate her but can't help but talk about her :)

spencercarlos
May 14th, 2007, 11:46 PM
You seem to be not only deluded but retarded as well. I never said Maria wasn't having problems with her serve. Stop trying to make something out of nothing. You're the one who never gives credit where it's due to the WS, I called you on it, you backpeddaled and I told you to say what you mean. :rolleyes: Simple as that.
Them i am the one who is "supposed" to have reading disabilties, if you read what i wrote about Sharapova, i was talking about her problems with her shoulder and double faults, and that Serena had nothing to do with those particular problems, but then you highlight my comment and try to tell that i meant say that Serena "was not the problem" for Sharapova in those matches that she lost in Australian and Miami. Very low from your part :rolleyes:

spencercarlos
May 14th, 2007, 11:48 PM
Don't be fooled by spencercarlos avatar because his sole reason for using it is because in his warped mind he thinks its unflattering picture of Venus. He's like a parasite that can't survive without them.:devil:
Yeah for sure my energies and posts go always towards debunking your deluded theories that always want to put Venus and Serena above any player from any era at any price :lol:

spencercarlos
May 14th, 2007, 11:50 PM
You're about to get badreps because he does have a mental disability.
No i am not used to bad rep anyone unless they bad rep me first. And lets not even comment about the childish and insulting comments that most of you Venus fans put beside each rep :lol: Love it :devil:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 14th, 2007, 11:51 PM
why waste your precious time on the not so important williams sisters...don't you have a life outside of correcting us "deluded" fans??

vettipooh
May 15th, 2007, 01:16 AM
why waste your precious time on the not so important williams sisters...don't you have a life outside of correcting us "deluded" fans??

He lives in fear of the Williams sisters greatness:worship: .....Sabi 1....Williams 13(more to come!!):lol:

friendsita
May 15th, 2007, 04:07 AM
why should serena conform,to please who?she can only please herself first,family second and probably her fans third.these so called experts think we dont know about their subtle insults towards serena and her coaches.this letter is insinuating that oracene and richard are not capable.who cares whether she joins the graff,nav and evert legacy,she has made her own legacy and her fans will remember her as the most fascinating talented player of her generation.
what has male players got to do with women players,they should bother with how to beat roger.
these so called experts should be worried about their pet pova and leave serena the hell alone.they think serena listens to evert or pay attention to the navratilova statistics.
serena is going to make history this year she will play tournaments and win all the time.pova is going to be shut out completely,serena's competetion is going to be justine not momo,the russians or any other wannabe.
2007 is going to showcase serena as a legend in her time and beyond.she is a player who epitomes the catch phrase "it is what it is".

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 15th, 2007, 12:46 PM
He lives in fear of the Williams sisters greatness:worship: .....Sabi 1....Williams 13(more to come!!):lol:

LOL LOL :spit: you should say 13 AND counting :devil:

Slutiana
May 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM
No i am not used to bad rep anyone unless they bad rep me first. And lets not even comment about the childish and insulting comments that most of you Venus fans put beside each rep :lol: Love it :devil:

Speaking of childish, you bad rep someone if the bad rep you back....so your saying you click on their profile, find one of thier posts and bad rep it just because they bad repped you? what do you write? 'thats for badrepping me'
how low
well your getting badreps now so am i right in expecting a bad rep back?
and serena williams is the best, your hating isn't wanted here so don't come back

friendsita
May 20th, 2007, 04:04 PM
:lol: :worship: :lol:

Slutiana
May 20th, 2007, 04:40 PM
:rolleyes: I never meant to say that Serena was not problem when she lost to her both at the Australian Open and Miami, only deluded fans like you would think. Serena was impecable in both matches and would have won anyway.
I was refeering to her serving problems, which again the deluded ones give full credit to Serena :lol: :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: oh yeh and btw...serena was very close to impeccable in both matches..at the AO final, i remember the commentator saying it was the beest showing of womens tennis she'd ever seen. i think the commentator knows more about tennis than u.... Serena played better in the 6-1 6-1 than in the 6-1 6-2 so shhhh...