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Marcell
Mar 8th, 2007, 12:08 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/6545804?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=199



Worn-down Hingis fighting to regain success




Martina Hingis' vaunted comeback is so far in the rearview mirror now that her vision of regaining her much beloved No. 1 ranking has nearly faded to black.

"You always have to have hope and hope dies last," Hingis said in an exclusive interview with FOXSports.com.

Martina Hingis (right) hasn't been completely shut out in her second stint on the WTA Tour. She won the Qatar Open doubles title Saturday with Maria Kirilenko. (Shajahan / Associated Press)

The once-dominant Hingis is the third seed at this week's Pacific Life Open at Indian Wells, but there aren't too many folks who think she has a great chance to win the title — not when in the past 15 months, she's won all of three crowns and has posted a poor record against the top five.

The 26-year-old has scored plenty of impressive wins and is rarely routed, but still hasn't shown her once-steely ability to face down all comers with a mix of brains, slight-of-hand tactics and pure moxie.

Hingis' comeback, which is 15 months old, has already taken its toll as she had forgotten how much she began to dislike the daily grind of the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour when she left completely burned out at the end of 2005.

"At this point, I'm trying to overcome the travel and other things and be fresh and ready to go," she said. "My strongest point has been to be concentrating at a high level and to be 100 percent healthy and that's so key to whether I'm on or off. That split second of being faster than the other and to be ready with my head is important."

The first stage of her career seems like another lifetime for Hingis. Between 1996 and 2000, when she won her five Grand Slam titles and enjoyed 209 weeks at No. 1, there wasn't a player out there who she couldn't figure out, couldn't speed past, couldn't put up a defensive wall against.

But now, there is a little confusion in her eyes when she talks about some of the other elite players like Serena Williams, Maria Sharapova, Amelie Mauresmo, Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters. She can't trick the other superstars like she used to, and she wears down in three-set matches.

Consequently, in the five Grand Slams she's played during her comeback, she has been unable to reach a semifinal.

Between 1996 and 2002, when she retired, she always reached at least one semifinal. In her second life, she's been shut out.

"It was one way of living," Hingis said. "I was very young when it all happened. Time has gone on. You can't be out for three years and think you are going to crush everybody again. It wouldn't be realistic for me. I don't have the size of Serena coming back and winning a Grand Slam. It's confidence and other things I can build up on. My biggest fear coming back was I wouldn't be able to survive the game. I have.

"Now I'm back in the top 10 and I've had some great matches against top players. And of course there's my drive where I want to beat them."

No one completely questions Hingis' desire, not when she climbed back to No. 6 in the rankings in a relatively short period of time. It's her staying power that's still up in the air. It's hard to imagine a once dominant player hanging on if she can't go to toe with the best, and Hingis has only shown brief glimpses that she can do so.

"If you know you do everything possible in practice and in matches, there's the possibility I can," she said. "I've beaten Maria, Nadia Petrova and Lindsay Davenport when she was No. 3."

But she's also lost to Sharapova twice, whose the No. 1 seed at Indian Wells, to Henin, and to Mauresmo.

Then there are other players, like Clijsters, who will retire at year's end, which is great news for Hingis, since the Belgian has beaten her in the quarterfinals of three of the five Grand Slams Hingis has contested during her comeback.

Hingis choked during their quarterfinal at the 2007 Australian Open, unable to push through Clijsters and losing another critical three-setter.

"I had her," Hingis said. "That was the best chance I had. I have to build on that and if I get into that position again, have no fear."

When Hingis first retired, she wasn't only burned out from playing, but homesick and ready for new mental and personal challenges. She likes having a partner around and isn't one to stay single for too long.

She's now engaged to Czech player Radek Stepanek. When they first became engaged last year, Stepanek was out with an injury and his days were filled with supporting his number one woman. Hingis loved that.

"He had a lot of time for me and I very much got used to that," she said with a laugh. "It's not only me any more. I wish it was like that. But it's nice to be able to support each other and have off-court time. He's (at tournaments) so it's not like you have to travel to the place where your heart is."

Hingis' heart may be in the right place off the court, but on-court she's still searching for her guts. She says she is committed to the grind, which is the only way she will eventually reap long-term results. But she has a distate for working out, which is not doing her any favors in matches that go beyond two hours.

Hingis' mother and coach Melanie has implored her to get in a little better shape, as has Stepanek.

"I'm not going to close myself in a cage for four weeks to do conditioning," Hingis said. "I wouldn't be able to hit a ball because I need the balance. In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."

That sounds like a juicy justification, but Hingis knows herself better than anyone — except her mother, who sits courtside with her head in her hands when her prodigy loses.

"She says it's not my game that's the problem, it's the physical part," Hingis said. "It's always the same thing that I have to win in straight sets if I want to beat them. Radek says you have the game, that's not it. It's lasting a little bit longer, (winning) a few extra points. But its not just falling into my hands."

And it won't any time in the future. Hingis is still a legend and when her foes get on court, they go big-game hunting. Whether she can avoid the arrows will decide whether she has a long-term future on tour.

"I'm back in the position where I used to be," she said. "Everyone hunts the top 10 because they know it's the last station and it brings out the best in them. But I'm looking forward to the challenge."

kabuki
Mar 8th, 2007, 12:14 PM
Because she might start over-running the balls? :lol:

It's her choice if she wants to get in better shape or not. She clearly needs to, and it is good that her camp knows it too. Hopefully she will commit to the work needed to get to the next level. :D

Volcana
Mar 8th, 2007, 12:39 PM
Hingis' comeback, which is 15 months old, has already taken its toll as she had forgotten how much she began to dislike the daily grind of the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour when she left completely burned out at the end of 2005.
Don't I remember something about foot injuries?
I don't have the size of Serena coming back and winning a Grand Slam.I don't like that quote. It's sound like she's fooling herself. She DOES have the size of a Henin, to come back and win a GS title. It's not about size.
When Hingis first retired, she wasn't only burned out from playing, but homesick and ready for new mental and personal challenges.Don't I remember something about foot injuries?
In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."That's disturbing. If these quotes are right, she's in serious denial. Getting stronger and faster needn't involve bulk. Henin is the perfect example.
"She says it's not my game that's the problem, it's the physical part," Hingis said. "It's always the same thing that I have to win in straight sets if I want to beat them. Radek says you have the game, that's not it. It's lasting a little bit longer, (winning) a few extra points. But its not just falling into my hands."Right. and it's not going to. Still, the people around her are evidently saying the right things.

brickhousesupporter
Mar 8th, 2007, 12:40 PM
Could Hingis be afraid. If she gets in better conditioning, and she still can not win, what excuse would she have. Now she can always blame it on the fact that the other girls are bigger than her etc.

starred06
Mar 8th, 2007, 01:10 PM
She is pretty in shape already. The reason she does not have the power is because of the way she hits the ball, especially her forehand. She takes the ball early and with an open-stance. You can never generate too much drive with an open-stance.

It is more about her mental part. It seems like she does not walk into matches believing her chances. Even worse, when her opponent starts winning during the game, she gets tight and loses her touch. She is also not aggressive enough when closing out games. She could race quickly to a 40-0 lead but then lose 4 points in a row, or have 3 break points and then waste them in no time. How many times have we seen her racing a big lead and then losing a few games badly? It looks like whenever she's leading, she steps on the brake herself and let her opponent catches up or even go ahead of her.

It's definitely her mind. She came back to the tour believing she could take out the top girls, and then found herself kind of struggling. Then she lost a little confidence, and went the wrong direction. She is also giving herself more pressure as her ranking climbs up.

Physically she has definitely improved since last year. But mentally, it is deteriorating. Last year AO, she had the pressure-free mind and aggression against Kim, but lacked the stamina to close out. This year AO, she had the game and physique to win against Kim, but choked mentally.

barmaid
Mar 8th, 2007, 01:42 PM
She is pretty in shape already. The reason she does not have the power is because of the way she hits the ball, especially her forehand. She takes the ball early and with an open-stance. You can never generate too much drive with an open-stance.

It is more about her mental part. It seems like she does not walk into matches believing her chances. Even worse, when her opponent starts winning during the game, she gets tight and loses her touch. She is also not aggressive enough when closing out games. She could race quickly to a 40-0 lead but then lose 4 points in a row, or have 3 break points and then waste them in no time. How many times have we seen her racing a big lead and then losing a few games badly? It looks like whenever she's leading, she steps on the brake herself and let her opponent catches up or even go ahead of her.

It's definitely her mind. She came back to the tour believing she could take out the top girls, and then found herself kind of struggling. Then she lost a little confidence, and went the wrong direction. She is also giving herself more pressure as her ranking climbs up.

Physically she has definitely improved since last year. But mentally, it is deteriorating. Last year AO, she had the pressure-free mind and aggression against Kim, but lacked the stamina to close out. This year AO, she had the game and physique to win against Kim, but choked mentally.

Good post, Martina did try to "bulk up" back in 2000-01 and went to the gym
but it affected her game diversely like she said "I'm not going to close myself in a cage for four weeks to do conditioning," Hingis said. "I wouldn't be able to hit a ball because I need the balance. In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."

Her "fitness" is not in question here, its those extra points she needs to execute when closing out matches which is more of a mental challenge than a physical one. (as in the case of Hantuchova last week 6-1 and 4-1 and then losing the match). There will always be hurdles and challenges to overcome in tennis...I think she's content to be where she's at..its that quest for the next Slam she's aiming for so "Good Luck" Martina beating Maria would be a good start!:worship:

barmaid:wavey:

Corswandt
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Hingis choked during their quarterfinal at the 2007 Australian Open, unable to push through Clijsters and losing another critical three-setter.

"I had her," Hingis said. "That was the best chance I had. I have to build on that and if I get into that position again, have no fear."

Can't agree with this. Hingis was never in control of that match. The only way she'd win it was if Clijsters continued to spray errors all over the place like she did on the first half of the match. It was obvious that, once Clijsters found her range, Hingis was toast.

hingisGOAT
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:17 PM
LMAO. I was wondering when the needlessly negative, out-of-context Hingis articles would begin showing up. I'm glad we had a year without them :)

Chrissie-fan
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Could Hingis be afraid. If she gets in better conditioning, and she still can not win, what excuse would she have. Now she can always blame it on the fact that the other girls are bigger than her etc.
There's only one way for Hingis (or any other player for that matter) to give an interview for which she won't get criticized and that is to refuse to answer any of the questions.

The other girls ARE bigger than Hingis. I know, there is the exception of Henin, but it's undeniable that in the age of power tennis it's an advantage to be big and strong. Look at the average physique of the top 20 players from, say, 20 years ago and compare them to those of today. The fact that we have so many big and strong girls at the top today proves that players with that body type are more likely to succeed.

It doesn't mean that others can't win also, but let's be honest here: Who do you think has the heavier punch? The big guy or the small guy? Who do you think is more likely to win a tennis match at a time when the game is mostly based on power and physical strenght? The big girl or the small girl?

hingisGOAT
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:31 PM
:haha: and once again, the first three posts were by williams fans -- this thread was doomed from the start.

_Cell-chuk
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:37 PM
She has no confidence when playing against top 5 players. Before her retirement she always believed she was capable of beating anyone even if she lost at the end.
She would be more successful if she gets into a better shape maybe then she can endure the third sets.

oliverbecken
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:40 PM
MARTINA!!!:bounce:

starred06
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:47 PM
There's only one way for Hingis (or any other player for that matter) to give an interview for which she won't get criticized and that is to refuse to answer any of the questions.

The other girls ARE bigger than Hingis. I know, there is the exception of Henin, but it's undeniable that in the age of power tennis it's an advantage to be big and strong. Look at the average physique of the top 20 players from, say, 20 years ago and compare them to those of today. The fact that we have so many big and strong girls at the top today proves that players with that body type are more likely to succeed.

It doesn't mean that others can't win also, but let's be honest here: Who do you think has the heavier punch? The big guy or the small guy? Who do you think is more likely to win a tennis match at a time when the game is mostly based on power and physical strenght? The big girl or the small girl?


FYI, the only girls that Martina failed to beat at least once since her comeback are Mauresmo, Henin and Clijsters. None of them are even close to 6' tall. I don't think being "overpowered" is the main cause of her inability to score bigger wins.

I mean, come on, Serena is 5'9". She is like half a foot shorter than Sharapova, but she definitely never has the power problem.

Martina's problem is definitely more about her mind than her shape.

No Name Face
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:51 PM
she's just being a baby because it's not coming easy to her. no offense to her fans, but she shouldn't expect to win a slam within a year of her coming back. she should have planned a three year window to win a slam. plus, clijsters is retiring.

Craigy
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:55 PM
:haha: and once again, the first three posts were by williams fans -- this thread was doomed from the start.

Don't be such a hypocrite. You do the same with the Williams threads.

Craigy
Mar 8th, 2007, 02:56 PM
Anyway, Hingis should just try to stay positive. This is another good chance to win a title. She can do it if she really tries hard I guess.

Chrissie-fan
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:09 PM
FYI, the only girls that Martina failed to beat at least once since her comeback are Mauresmo, Henin and Clijsters. None of them are even close to 6' tall. I don't think being "overpowered" is the main cause of her inability to score bigger wins.

I mean, come on, Serena is 5'9". She is like half a foot shorter than Sharapova, but she definitely never has the power problem.

Martina's problem is definitely more about her mind than her shape.
I not only mean big in terms of height (although it definitely helps) but also in terms of body weight. And I know that Hingis has beaten most of the other players since her comeback. I didn't say she can't, only that her physique puts her at a disadvantage. I'm really surprised that this is even a topic of discussion really.

I don't really see why some find it necessary to always pound on Hingis. Whatever makes them happy I suppose.:)

Apoorv
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:13 PM
martina has to be faster and confident. she does not require more power.

Mightymirza
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
please dont leave the game again for a while martina..

starin
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:22 PM
She is pretty in shape already. The reason she does not have the power is because of the way she hits the ball, especially her forehand. She takes the ball early and with an open-stance. You can never generate too much drive with an open-stance.

It is more about her mental part. It seems like she does not walk into matches believing her chances. Even worse, when her opponent starts winning during the game, she gets tight and loses her touch. She is also not aggressive enough when closing out games. She could race quickly to a 40-0 lead but then lose 4 points in a row, or have 3 break points and then waste them in no time. How many times have we seen her racing a big lead and then losing a few games badly? It looks like whenever she's leading, she steps on the brake herself and let her opponent catches up or even go ahead of her.

It's definitely her mind. She came back to the tour believing she could take out the top girls, and then found herself kind of struggling. Then she lost a little confidence, and went the wrong direction. She is also giving herself more pressure as her ranking climbs up.

Physically she has definitely improved since last year. But mentally, it is deteriorating. Last year AO, she had the pressure-free mind and aggression against Kim, but lacked the stamina to close out. This year AO, she had the game and physique to win against Kim, but choked mentally.

Doesn't Venus exclusively hit open stance on both her forehand and her backhand? And she's able to get some serious pop on her forehand. She defintely needs to get more physically fit and stronger. She does not need to become Serena or Venus fit because that is not her game. The one thing I've noticed a lot is how passive she's become. Especially at the AO. She was winning all her matches quickly but she never did much, she just played steady tennis and waited for all the errors from her opponents. Against Clijsters she tried to do the same thing, and gave Clijsters the chance to find her range and start finding the court again. I think she was just too passive against Clijsters and didn't take the chances she was presented.

lecciones
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:27 PM
:haha: and once again, the first three posts were by williams fans -- this thread was doomed from the start.

LoL

and the article too:

"Hingis' comeback, which is 15 months old, has already taken its toll as she had forgotten how much she began to dislike the daily grind of the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour when she left completely burned out at the end of 2005."

I thought she left 2002 and came back 2005? whoa hahaha


And to this:
martina has to be faster and confident. she does not require more power.

I agree

also to this I agree:
Anyway, Hingis should just try to stay positive. This is another good chance to win a title. She can do it if she really tries hard I guess.
Which is how Serena won her AO07, by really trying hard.


Now Martina try hard!!! :P

selesbooz
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:38 PM
I don't think that it's that she need to get fitter, she is just being flat out beaten by these girls. I think that that has all ways been the thing with Martina, you had to go out and hit your shots against her. The girls are doing that. The Gold Coast Final in a good example of that, she got flat out beat by Safina there was nothing that she could do. This is the problem that you have with the game that she has, she can step up and start hitting winners just wait until you lose.

Sally Struthers
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:45 PM
hmm not a mention of winning tokyo a few weeks ago.

LoveFifteen
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:53 PM
hmm not a mention of winning tokyo a few weeks ago.

I love how Hingis can win two Tier I titles since her comeback -- something that has not been accomplished in the entire careers of Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc. -- and yet there are more threads in GM about how much she sucks than all the previous players combined. :sad: :sad:

CORIA01
Mar 8th, 2007, 03:58 PM
NICE ARTICLES!!!

crazillo
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Strange article...

I agree that she has to work on mental things, but getting stronger would not be wrong either.
I think Martinas best chance of winning a slam is in RG.

Volcana
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:12 PM
It doesn't mean that others can't win also, but let's be honest here: Who do you think has the heavier punch? The big guy or the small guy? Who do you think is more likely to win a tennis match at a time when the game is mostly based on power and physical strenght? The big girl or the small girl?Who's the winningest player in the slams the past three years? One of the big girls? Or the smallest player in the top twenty? Are the players taller than six feet winning most of the slams, or the players shorter than six feet?

I concede that size does help, but the ability to hit with pace isn't size dependent. Neither is winning.

As for all of you who are convinced that it's a mental issue, Hingis is quoted in the article saying that the two people closest to her, her mother and her fiance, say it's a phsysical issue, not a mental one. Hingis herself wants to just work on the mental stuff. That's what's not succeeding. Leaner, stronger, faster, more endurance is the way to go.

She's never going to have arms like Serena. That's genetics. But the difference between Henin's physical condition and Hingis' is the difference between being able to beat three or four bigger, opponent in row, and losing to one of them in semis or QFs.

When the two people closest to you are telling you your cardio isn't good enough, your cardio isn't good enough.

PLP
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:13 PM
HMM...I don't know how I feel about this article. Martina never said she was 'burned-out' by the tour.

She works very hard on her fitness so her quote about not wanting to get fitter seems like it must be out of context, unless it means spending a month 'bulking-up' which probably wouldn't help her game.

She needs mental toughness. Maybe she is just missing Radek a lot right now. It was interesting that this article still refers to Melanie as Martina's main coach....Is she in Cali with Martina?!

ico4498
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Martina thinks she'll lose brain cells if she gets fitter ...

"In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."

frontier
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:14 PM
I love how Hingis can win two Tier I titles since her comeback -- something that has not been accomplished in the entire careers of Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc. -- and yet there are more threads in GM about how much she sucks than all the previous players combined. :sad: :sad:hingis should keep on playing because at one point the draw will open up for her like what happened to serena,her best chance is at roland garros.her comeback has been great considering that nobody gave her a chance.hingis is one of the greats of her generation and cannot be compared with the above mentioned,by the age of vaidisova she had won a lot of titles including grand slams.she needs patience soon it will all come together.:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

starin
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:16 PM
I love how Hingis can win two Tier I titles since her comeback -- something that has not been accomplished in the entire careers of Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc. -- and yet there are more threads in GM about how much she sucks than all the previous players combined. :sad: :sad:

Well...that's probably because there are higher expectations for Hingis. She's won 5 slams, been no.1 for a really long time and seemed to explode back on tour after a few years of retirement. I, personally was shocked at how fast she climbed back to the top. Hingis has already been no.1, has already won tons of titles, what's most important to her and to the people watching her is whether she can win slams. I believe she can. I've grown to like hingis' game and attitude (and unlike certain Hingis fans (cough...heylooki'mgay....cough) i can respect and enjoy her game even though i'm a fan of her nemesis the WS. I think she's just gotten too used to waiting for errors from her opponents. She's won many matches like that and because of that she has become passive. She needs to become more aggressive and construct her points. Basically she needs to play the way she did against Petrova at YEC 2006. I would love for her to win IW by beating Sharapova and Kuznetsova. That would make the rest of the season so interesting.

harloo
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:18 PM
I love how Hingis can win two Tier I titles since her comeback -- something that has not been accomplished in the entire careers of Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc. -- and yet there are more threads in GM about how much she sucks than all the previous players combined. :sad: :sad:

We all know Hingis is capable of winning a Tier I where only a fraction of the top players show up, but can she do it at a slam? The very thing Hingis is looking down on(conditioning) is the only element holding her back. Hey, maybe she won't be able to become #1 again and win multiple slams, but it's about maximizing your chances. With a bit more belief and physical improvement anything can happen, look at Justine.:)

cellophane
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:18 PM
I love how Hingis can win two Tier I titles since her comeback -- something that has not been accomplished in the entire careers of Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc. -- and yet there are more threads in GM about how much she sucks than all the previous players combined. :sad: :sad:

Simple. a) Hingis is a slam champion. b) her game hasn't been good enough for slams so far in her comeback

MatchpointPRT
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:23 PM
She will do well... Maybe she could be a bit stronger because it would just be better for her, but i think her main problem is in her mind... she hesitates a lot whether she has to atack or if she has to defend.., particularly at the end of the matches where she tends to be too passive. Although i think thatīs normal to see that in a player like her because the player that are called "thinkers" on court normally as they have to be always thinking on the best shot, best shot selection,best tactic, they miss the shot if they are under pressure because they arenīt able to think so clearly, or they simply donīt atack enough, waiting for the error of the opponent that is trying all the way to save the match, and so he will have success. On the other hand the hard hiters they donīt need to think too much, they have 1 plan, so they just have to execute their plans,( hit hard to the lines).
Martina lacks courage in my opinion and thats why she loses, but itīs exactly because of that, that i believe she still can do very well in the future because when players overtake their mental barriers lots of things change for better...

Vlover
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:28 PM
[QUOTE]I don't think that it's that she need to get fitter, she is just being flat out beaten by these girls. I think that that has all ways been the thing with Martina, you had to go out and hit your shots against her.

I think this is very difficult for her fans to expect. With her present game she cannot consistently defeat these girls because she has to rely on their errors to win matches. If her hard hitting opponents are playing well she's going to lose then they all use the "over powering" sympathy card.:rolleyes: I don't even see the logic of this either because they all claim she can use her "brain" to counteract "brainless" power hitters therefore why all this "pity" if she doesn't win.:shrug:

John.
Mar 8th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Watching Martina against Zvonareva at AO last year and watching her now, it looks as if she has taken a step back IMO.

During that match, she was continually inside the court, pushing forward and being aggressive. That's what she needs to do more off. She isn't going to beat the likes of Clijsters, Henin & Mauresmo consistently by staying back and waiting for them to make errors. She needs to take the game to them and her opportunities when they arise.

Chrissie-fan
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:05 PM
Who's the winningest player in the slams the past three years? One of the big girls? Or the smallest player in the top twenty? Are the players taller than six feet winning most of the slams, or the players shorter than six feet?

I concede that size does help, but the ability to hit with pace isn't size dependent. Neither is winning.

As for all of you who are convinced that it's a mental issue, Hingis is quoted in the article saying that the two people closest to her, her mother and her fiance, say it's a phsysical issue, not a mental one. Hingis herself wants to just work on the mental stuff. That's what's not succeeding. Leaner, stronger, faster, more endurance is the way to go.

She's never going to have arms like Serena. That's genetics. But the difference between Henin's physical condition and Hingis' is the difference between being able to beat three or four bigger, opponent in row, and losing to one of them in semis or QFs.

When the two people closest to you are telling you your cardio isn't good enough, your cardio isn't good enough.
Well, you agree that size does help and that because of genetics she'll never have the arms of Serena. I think that's basically the point I'm making, ain't it? I ain't saying that it's impossible for Hingis to compensate for those things by improving other aspects of her game and win, only that her body type puts her at a disadvantage. Problem is that when I try to put forward such an opinion that some will interpret it as an attack on the ability of power players or that I'm making excuses for Hingis (as if she needs any) or whatever, which isn't my intention.:help: To me the size/weight/physical strenght point I'm trying to make seems so obvious that it borders on the absurd to deny it. But obviously that's just me...

franny
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:20 PM
Her team has the right mindset. Martina just needs to follow through and do it.

Steffica Greles
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:20 PM
Hingis is a legend? Come on now, I think that word is a little over-used nowadays.

Hingis is, has been, a very, very good player -- an exceptionally good player. She's been the best for around 9-12 months (from spring 1998 it was clear to me that whatever the rankings told us, Hingis was not the best player in the world when Venus or Lindsay, and soon afterwards, Serena, played at the height of their form).

But with five grandslam titles, I wouldn't call her a legend. There are very few legends of the game, actually.

Lambert-Chambers
Lenglen
Wills-Moody
Connolly
Court
King
Evert
Navratilova
Graf
Seles (arguably, but I would include her)
Serena Williams


But not Hingis.

John.
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Hingis is a legend? Come on now, I think that word is a little over-used nowadays.

Hingis is, has been, a very, very good player -- an exceptionally good player. She's been the best for around 9-12 months (from spring 1998 it was clear to me that whatever the rankings told us, Hingis was not the best player in the world when Venus or Lindsay, and soon afterwards, Serena, played at the height of their form).

But with five grandslam titles, I wouldn't call her a legend. There are very few legends of the game, actually.

Lambert-Chambers
Lenglen
Wills-Moody
Connolly
Court
King
Evert
Navratilova
Graf
Seles (arguably, but I would include her)
Serena Williams


But not Hingis.

I agree that she is not a legend, however, she will be remembered as one of the greats of the game, simply because of everything she achieved at such a young age

barmaid
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:27 PM
Volcana said "But the difference between Henin's physical condition and Hingis' is the difference between being able to beat three or four bigger, opponent in row, and losing to one of them in semis or QFs."

I agree that Henin has won more Slams than anybody else in the past 4 years the stats back her up, but the "How and Why" aspect is where we differ. Henin is just a better "fighter" when the going gets tough...that is not taught, nor can it be taught, its deep within...its a mental strength that you "must" have to be a winner. :worship: So until Martina can "get back" that mentality of having a "killer instinct" on the court (she had it once) :devil: she will always be a losing in the QF's or semi's!:sad:

barmaid:wavey:

Chrissie-fan
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Hingis is a legend? Come on now, I think that word is a little over-used nowadays.

Hingis is, has been, a very, very good player -- an exceptionally good player. She's been the best for around 9-12 months (from spring 1998 it was clear to me that whatever the rankings told us, Hingis was not the best player in the world when Venus or Lindsay, and soon afterwards, Serena, played at the height of their form).

But with five grandslam titles, I wouldn't call her a legend. There are very few legends of the game, actually.

Lambert-Chambers
Lenglen
Wills-Moody
Connolly
Court
King
Evert
Navratilova
Graf
Seles (arguably, but I would include her)
Serena Williams


But not Hingis.
Comes down to ones own interpretation of what it takes to be a legend I guess. Personally I would describe her as "unforgettable." Fans with a real interest in the game will always remember her as a great player. In terms of "All Time Greatness" I think she has already surpassed, say Hana Mandlikova and is closing in on Evonne Goolagong....something like that.

thrust
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:33 PM
I agree that Hingis main problem is mental, primarily loss of concentration. No doubt she is not very confident when she has to play the top 5, but she has a few losses to lesser players due to loss of concentration which then affects her attitude. Her loss at Wimbledon to Sugiama<?> was a good example.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:36 PM
Loved this quote.

"You always have to have hope and hope dies last,"

Didn't like this. It sounded foolish.

I don't have the size of Serena coming back and winning a Grand Slam.

Hated this! It's just goofy. :weirdo:

If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."


I gotta say, I thought the article minimized the significance of Hingy's comeback. And I, as someone else mentioned, found it odd it didn't mention Tokyo.

But, all that aside, Hingis is utterly fooling herself if she thinks that she doesn't need to get fitter! I feel sorry for her fans if this is her attitude toward it. All this tells me is she refuses to see that the game demands a higher commitment to athleticism. She's being just plain spoiled and stubborn. If you want to take the ride, you gotta pay the toll.

It's sad when the people who love you most (Stepanek and Molitor) are trying to tell you what the deal is, and you simply refuse- kinda like intervention gone bad. It doesn't bode well. Martina's track record after refusing to listen to her coach/mom isn't so good.

Orion
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:39 PM
She DOES have the size of a Henin, to come back and win a GS title. It's not about size[...]Getting stronger and faster needn't involve bulk. Henin is the perfect example.

Compare the bulk of Henin from the 2001-early 2002 season, when she was sitting pretty in the bottom half of the top 10, to the bulk of Henin from 2003-present day, and you will see a pretty noticeable difference. Now, while she has certainly become a top-flight player and potential all-time great, what else has this transformation led to? Injuries.

Like it or not, the power game is a double-edged sword. A lot of people are not built to put that much pressure on their bodies. It's noteworthy that in her entire career, Serena has only ever competed six consecutive slams. The pressure of becoming a power player, of adding that muscle and stress to her body, is certainly a factor in Henin's medical issues.

I could talk about that for quite a bit longer, but the main point I want to get across is that Hingis has two options: she can do the fitness thing and hope it turns out well, she wins a couple slams, has a couple injured phases, and retires with 7-8 big trophies, but less time on tour. OR, she can keep what she's doing now, stay competitive for five more years, do what she wants, and not worry about injuries.

It's really a toss up. She could decide she wants that French title really badly, or she could decide she'd rather just have fun reaching the quarters of virtually everything she enters. Who knows? Only Martina.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 8th, 2007, 05:52 PM
A lot of people are not built to put that much pressure on their bodies. It's noteworthy that in her entire career, Serena has only ever competed six consecutive slams. The pressure of becoming a power player, of adding that muscle and stress to her body, is certainly a factor in Henin's medical issues.

This is nonsense.

Nobody is talking about her just adding "bulk." That's silly. The only truly "bulky" (and I wouldn't say this, but I know others do) player out there is Serena. And that is natural. Serena is built like her mom. Period!

Hingis simply needs to get fitter. And here's a little revelation :rolleyes: it's not like Hingy is itty-bitty now. All she has to do is be willing to change her body COMPOSITION- adding more LEAN muscle, not gain "bulk."

And Henin's health problems were not generated by too much "bulk." Again, that's laughable. She picke up viral infections. Now, it could be that they were a result of OVER TRAINING, ie, not enough rest in relation to the intensity and frequency of her work outs, but they have nothing to do with getting stronger or "bulk."

This should be such a non-issue. What athlete would NOT want to get fitter? It's silly! If you see yourself as an athlete, you should want to be in the best shape possible.

Stepanek and Molitor don't seem to be talking about "bulk" so much as fitness to last through a tough three setter. Two different things.

Hingy simply needs to get stronger- endurance and musculature. That doesn't mean size, necessarily, but it does mean a change in body composition.

LondonSteve
Mar 8th, 2007, 06:18 PM
Am I the only one that is beginning to get a little bored with Martina's 'comeback'. She's comeback already. Unless she makes a mark at Roland Garros and Wimbledon - at least improves on her Wimbledon foray last year - the 'comeback' story will evaporate very quickly.

alfonsojose
Mar 8th, 2007, 06:30 PM
she's just being a baby because it's not coming easy to her. no offense to her fans, but she shouldn't expect to win a slam within a year of her coming back. she should have planned a three year window to win a slam. plus, clijsters is retiring.

That's it. This is not the 90s anymore. grind it or change that open stance forehand

Knizzle
Mar 8th, 2007, 06:33 PM
Watching Martina against Zvonareva at AO last year and watching her now, it looks as if she has taken a step back IMO.

During that match, she was continually inside the court, pushing forward and being aggressive. That's what she needs to do more off. She isn't going to beat the likes of Clijsters, Henin & Mauresmo consistently by staying back and waiting for them to make errors. She needs to take the game to them and her opportunities when they arise.
I agree with this, she needs to realize that in today's game u have to hit every ball with purpose. Either u hit hard and deep, close to the sidelines, or great angle or you could be in trouble. It's really that simple. Even Venus found that out during her struggles after the stomach injury.

frontier
Mar 8th, 2007, 06:39 PM
she thought it was going to be easy,specially when venus won wimbledon.that right there was her main motivation , she was commentating with carillo and she was saying some really negative stuff about venus and to see her peer win and equal her number of slams.
i think venus is going to win a slam this year between wimbledon and usa open.

The Dawntreader
Mar 8th, 2007, 06:42 PM
bizarre kind of answers from Hingis:lol:

Like she's convincing herself not too train at an elite level:confused: :scratch:

pigam
Mar 8th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Idon't really like the article, but (for once) it actually lead to a rather interesting thread :eek: :yeah:

This one is a difficult one. Hingis without a doubt has all the ability to win a slam these days. i'm not even sure if she needs much more physical abilities to do so. I've seen ehr play some really god matches the past year. some really good ones. What she doés need, imo, is some kind of mental believe which isn't always there against the "topguns". Now how will she get this selfbelief? Maybe by winning some "ugly matches" my grinding it out? And maybe she doés need a little more fitness.
Do I make sense?
Intinsicly, she is fine how she is; If she plays very well, and isn't forced into a long match (met alone long tournament) she can definetly win. I don't know. She probably knows best. It's also possible that she just doesn't WANT to put in the effort. That's maybe a shame. But it's apossibility. There are plenty of players who hate to workout. Maybe Hingis is one of them?

ico4498
Mar 8th, 2007, 08:29 PM
It's also possible that she just doesn't WANT to put in the effort.

i think she made that pretty clear.

Bruno71
Mar 8th, 2007, 08:36 PM
We have to remember it's only been a few months over a year since Hingis started her comeback. When she began, no one believed she'd get to #6 so quickly. It would've been natural for her to have some mental breakdowns against top players when she started last year.

Now that she's re-established herself, and quite well for the most part, she must realize that she is a top player again. Clijsters is #4 (was #5 last week) now and Hingis is #6. The belief has to be there for her to have a chance against these players. And she has to remember that she defeated the current #1 player just over a year ago.

I'm more concerned with her mental lapses that have occurred against lesser opponents. Against Sugiyama (not very good...and she'd had that match in hand), Razzano (heinous), Ivanovic (not a lesser opponent and not terrible, but way too lopsided), and Mirza (bad with a bagel). She should be at a point where maybe one upset loss occurs once in awhile but nor four.

KYLIE
Mar 8th, 2007, 09:27 PM
I cannot believe what Martina said!

Shes afraid of getting bulky?!!!

Lord, she NEEDS to get fitter, for someone with such a clever mind shes making a foolish choice. She has everything she can possibly dream of possesing, acuracy, timing, ability to chance direction on balls, amazing angles. The only thing she lacks is a KILLER shot.

Problem solver? : gain 10-15 lbs in muscle and trust me, her problems will be solved....she will be craking those forhands!

Shes procrastinating and fumbling with lame excuses, who cares what you look like in a skirt with bulging muscles MARTINA! For god sakes! Its your CAREER! You want to be #1 again....? Or look "good" in a dress?

Vanity is killing her hopes at reclaiming a top spot! Even her mother can see it! WAKE UP! Go to the gym and do some pushups!~ It aint hard!

Volcana
Mar 8th, 2007, 09:41 PM
To me the size/weight/physical strenght point I'm trying to make seems so obvious that it borders on the absurd to deny it. As long as Henin is on the tour, that arguement will only go so far. She's shorter than Hingis, and has a leaner body. In other words, she's giving up height and weight, yet she's consistently beating the same players Hingis doesn't.

It CAN'T be 'size/weight/physical strength'. Henin has those same disadvantages.
Compare the bulk of Henin from the 2001-early 2002 season, when she was sitting pretty in the bottom half of the top 10, to the bulk of Henin from 2003-present day, and you will see a pretty noticeable difference.I disagree. She's more defined, and her percentage body fat looks like it's about 1% sometimes, but she's not a whole lot more muscular.
Now, while she has certainly become a top-flight player and potential all-time great, what else has this transformation led to? Injuries.Someone else made the point that Henin got sick, not injured.

However, I know from my time (long, LONG ago) as a dancer that, when you get really lean, it's easier to get sick.

NOTE: I want Hingis to get back to being able to win a GS so I can go back to rooting against her. She was a wonderfully arrogant champion, and the perfect foil for Venus.

Chrissie-fan
Mar 8th, 2007, 10:00 PM
As long as Henin is on the tour, that arguement will only go so far. She's shorter than Hingis, and has a leaner body. In other words, she's giving up height and weight, yet she's consistently beating the same players Hingis doesn't.

It CAN'T be 'size/weight/physical strength'. Henin has those same disadvantages.

Exactly: THOSE SAME DISADVANTAGES. I didn't say that it's impossible to overcome those disadvantages, only that THEY HAVE those disadvantages, both of them. Of course they can work on their physical strenght and Henin has done that, more so than Hingis. But she probably had to work twice as hard to develop what mother nature had given her less of than "the bigger girls." IOW, the by nature big and strong girls got a head start where power is concerned, which is an advantage. I agree that Henin has found a way to win against the big names on a consistent basis, partly thanks to the hard work she put in whereas Hingis so far hasn't, although she too is doing well IMO. Let's put things in perspective, Hingis is at least a top 10 player, possibly top 5 at the end of the season, most other players would sell their souls to the devil to be playing that "badly."

PLP
Mar 8th, 2007, 10:40 PM
she thought it was going to be easy,specially when venus won wimbledon.that right there was her main motivation , she was commentating with carillo and she was saying some really negative stuff about venus and to see her peer win and equal her number of slams.
i think venus is going to win a slam this year between wimbledon and usa open.

I don't think that made Hingis think it would be easy though.

I think Martina is just too stubborn sometimes...she should just listen to her Mom! :)

spencercarlos
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:04 PM
Good post, Martina did try to "bulk up" back in 2000-01 and went to the gym
but it affected her game diversely like she said "I'm not going to close myself in a cage for four weeks to do conditioning," Hingis said. "I wouldn't be able to hit a ball because I need the balance. In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."

Her "fitness" is not in question here, its those extra points she needs to execute when closing out matches which is more of a mental challenge than a physical one. (as in the case of Hantuchova last week 6-1 and 4-1 and then losing the match). There will always be hurdles and challenges to overcome in tennis...I think she's content to be where she's at..its that quest for the next Slam she's aiming for so "Good Luck" Martina beating Maria would be a good start!:worship:

barmaid:wavey:
Well you seem to forget she enjoyed a great period between the end of 2000 and 2001, she came back and beat Venus, Serena (2 times), Davenport (2 times) and some other top players. I think thatīs the best i have seen Hingis play, she hit throught her forehand at the time, and went for her shots, and was very agressive.

As Volcana said people in her camp are telling her the right thigs, i think she is doing a very stupid job of ignoring them, because Hingis is not improving at all. And she wonīt win a grand slam with her current game.

spencercarlos
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:07 PM
Volcana said "But the difference between Henin's physical condition and Hingis' is the difference between being able to beat three or four bigger, opponent in row, and losing to one of them in semis or QFs."

I agree that Henin has won more Slams than anybody else in the past 4 years the stats back her up, but the "How and Why" aspect is where we differ. Henin is just a better "fighter" when the going gets tough...that is not taught, nor can it be taught, its deep within...its a mental strength that you "must" have to be a winner. :worship: So until Martina can "get back" that mentality of having a "killer instinct" on the court (she had it once) :devil: she will always be a losing in the QF's or semi's!:sad:

barmaid:wavey:
Henin is not only a better fighther, is not about giving up, its about strenght, Henin is a better athete than Hingis today and is a better hitter of the ball than Hingis, she can penetrate more, she makes things happen. Hingis expects more to come to her (oponnents errors), and by now she should have realized this.

Volcana
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Henin is not only a better fighther, is not about giving up...After the OZ '06 final, I have to question how much of a 'fighter' Henin is. I have to question how much she's about 'never giving up'.

Ultimately fighting spirit is best measured by how much you display when you're getting your ass handed to you. It's a lot easier to fight when you think you're going to find a way to win. Going just as hard when you're virtually certain to lose is the mark of a fighter.

1975 US Open finals: Guillermo Vilas is up 2 sets to love, and 5-0 in the third vs Manuel Orantes. Orantes beat him. That's a fighter. Vilas was a much better player, holding a seemingly insurmountable lead. Orantes not only didn't quit, he fought for every point. That's not Henin.

tennisbum79
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:39 PM
"I'm not going to close myself in a cage for four weeks to do conditioning," Hingis said. "I wouldn't be able to hit a ball because I need the balance. In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."

That sounds like a juicy justification, but Hingis knows herself better than anyone — except her mother, who sits courtside with her head in her hands when her prodigy loses.

"She says it's not my game that's the problem, it's the physical part," Hingis said. "It's always the same thing that I have to win in straight sets if I want to beat them. Radek says you have the game, that's not it. It's lasting a little bit longer, (winning) a few extra points. But its not just falling into my hands."

And it won't any time in the future. Hingis is still a legend and when her foes get on court, they go big-game hunting. Whether she can avoid the arrows will decide whether she has a long-term future on tour.

"I'm back in the position where I used to be," she said. "Everyone hunts the top 10 because they know it's the last station and it brings out the best in them. But I'm looking forward to the challenge."

I sai this before, and I will said it again.
The conditon that precipiated her first retirement have surfaced again.
What was that condition?
The power hiters. And Hingis can hear their
footsteps and she is nevrous and apprehensive about it.

When I created a thread about this, there was an uproar on this board. T
he reactions were violent but usually not well thought out.
Here is that thread where I echo the sentiments expressed here

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=283356

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spencercarlos
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:41 PM
After the OZ '06 final, I have to question how much of a 'fighter' Henin is. I have to question how much she's about 'never giving up'.

Ultimately fighting spirit is best measured by how much you display when you're getting your ass handed to you. It's a lot easier to fight when you think you're going to find a way to win. Going just as hard when you're virtually certain to lose is the mark of a fighter.

1975 US Open finals: Guillermo Vilas is up 2 sets to love, and 5-0 in the third vs Manuel Orantes. Orantes beat him. That's a fighter. Vilas was a much better player, holding a seemingly insurmountable lead. Orantes not only didn't quit, he fought for every point. That's not Henin.
Serena basically has her own history of quitting matches when she was about to get beaten, Wimbledon 99, Amelia Island 2000 should ring some bells. And with even worse excuses. Its not the first time players do that.
Henin basically quit her match, and yeah i disapproved that one, but she felt that phisically she could not pull out the win. I don´t even want to run into that 2006 Australian Open match.

But Henin´s performances of late ever since have shown to be the contrary, she is a great fighther and that´s why she has won a lot of tournaments in the past year. A player that would put no fight at all would not have.

mboyle
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:54 PM
Can't agree with this. Hingis was never in control of that match. The only way she'd win it was if Clijsters continued to spray errors all over the place like she did on the first half of the match. It was obvious that, once Clijsters found her range, Hingis was toast.

A player does not suddenly go from 6-2; 6-2 error free romps to a match with sixty plus errors. Martina was brilliant in that match and was totally inside Kim's head, essentially making her hit errors.

hingisGOAT
Mar 8th, 2007, 11:55 PM
can we stop this power player rhetoric? hingis has made a career beating girls who are bigger than stronger than her. this was every bit as true in 1994 as it was in 1997 as it was in 2006 and as it is now.

i think people fall into the "oh, she can't beat power players!" trap because they are incapable of analyzing the actual weight, angle, placement, and depth of a tennis stroke. instead, because of a lack of playing experience, they only see miles per hour. :rolleyes:

this assumption is also dangerous because it assumes that -- while players like sharapova, williams etc. are able to have great "on" days and bad "off" days (ahem), hingis is the queen of playing at the same level every time she steps onto the court. which could not be further from the truth, of course, yet everytime hingis loses, all we hear is how her meek little game was blown into outerspace and she was all but incapable of making the slightest impact.

to this, i will say: hingis has her good days and bad days too, and a 5-time Slam champion is more than capable of obliterating the competition on a good day. she has done it many times. hingis' fate is COMPLETELY in her hands and her two ever-present weaknesses remain much as they have since 1999: mental strength and conditioning.

to end this little rant, i'd like to once again point out that hingis' losses since her return have come LESS from power players and MORE from the girls with versatile games.

tennisbum79
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:01 AM
can we stop this power player rhetoric? hingis has made a career beating girls who are bigger than stronger than her. this was every bit as true in 1994 as it was in 1997 as it was in 2006 and as

It Hingis you need to ask, not the posters here.
I wonder if you read the interview. It is at the center of all her concerns and anxities

hingisGOAT
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:06 AM
It Hingis you need to ask, not the posters here.
I wonder if you read the interview. It is at the center of all her concerns and anxities

no, it's not :confused: did YOU read the interview? she talks mainly about conidtioning and coaching :wavey:. the rest all in your head, hater :lol:

Chrissie-fan
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:09 AM
After the OZ '06 final, I have to question how much of a 'fighter' Henin is. I have to question how much she's about 'never giving up'.

Ultimately fighting spirit is best measured by how much you display when you're getting your ass handed to you. It's a lot easier to fight when you think you're going to find a way to win. Going just as hard when you're virtually certain to lose is the mark of a fighter.

1975 US Open finals: Guillermo Vilas is up 2 sets to love, and 5-0 in the third vs Manuel Orantes. Orantes beat him. That's a fighter. Vilas was a much better player, holding a seemingly insurmountable lead. Orantes not only didn't quit, he fought for every point. That's not Henin.
Yes, Jimmy Connors is also an example, maybe even the ultimate example of the never say die attitude you're talking about. Still, these champs play many of hundreds of matches throughout their careers. Whether you think that stomach problem she had was a good enough reason to quit or not, I don't think you can judge Henin by just that one match.

pigam
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:12 AM
can we stop this power player rhetoric? hingis has made a career beating girls who are bigger than stronger than her. this was every bit as true in 1994 as it was in 1997 as it was in 2006 and as it is now.

i think people fall into the "oh, she can't beat power players!" trap because they are incapable of analyzing the actual weight, angle, placement, and depth of a tennis stroke. instead, because of a lack of playing experience, they only see miles per hour. :rolleyes:

this assumption is also dangerous because it assumes that -- while players like sharapova, williams etc. are able to have great "on" days and bad "off" days (ahem), hingis is the queen of playing at the same level every time she steps onto the court. which could not be further from the truth, of course, yet everytime hingis loses, all we hear is how her meek little game was blown into outerspace and she was all but incapable of making the slightest impact.

to this, i will say: hingis has her good days and bad days too, and a 5-time Slam champion is more than capable of obliterating the competition on a good day. she has done it many times. hingis' fate is COMPLETELY in her hands and her two ever-present weaknesses remain much as they have since 1999: mental strength and conditioning.

to end this little rant, i'd like to once again point out that hingis' losses since her return have come LESS from power players and MORE from the girls with versatile games.

I agree wholeheartedly.
Glad to see that you're able to build a good argumentation like this one, instead of euhm... yeah ;)
And all that for your all time fav :yeah:

tennisbum79
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:19 AM
no, it's not :confused: did YOU read the interview? she talks mainly about conidtioning and coaching :wavey:. the rest all in your head, hater :lol:

Hingis' mother and coach Melanie has implored her to get in a little better shape, as has Stepanek.

"I'm not going to close myself in a cage for four weeks to do conditioning," Hingis said. "I wouldn't be able to hit a ball because I need the balance. In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."

That sounds like a juicy justification, but Hingis knows herself better than anyone — except her mother, who sits courtside with her head in her hands when her prodigy loses.

"She says it's not my game that's the problem, it's the physical part," Hingis said. "It's always the same thing that I have to win in straight sets if I want to beat them. Radek says you have the game, that's not it. It's lasting a little bit longer, (winning) a few extra points. But its not just falling into my hands."

And it won't any time in the future. Hingis is still a legend and when her foes get on court, they go big-game hunting. Whether she can avoid the arrows will decide whether she has a long-term future on tour.

"I'm back in the position where I used to be," she said. "Everyone hunts the top 10 because they know it's the last station and it brings out the best in them. But I'm looking forward to the challenge."

This long excerpt has no mention of coaching.
And NO, I am not a hater, I like Hingis game and I created many threads to attest to that.

My debating approach is one topic at a time.
And the discussion and agrument I make stay within the parameters of the topic alone.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:39 AM
The fact that people are arguing on behalf of this one time prodigy with ability out the wazoo who utterly dominated the tennis world as a teenager that we (and presumably, by extension, She) should simply be happy with the chance at cracking the top 5 in the world, tells us how far she's fallen and that she is underachieving.

The thing that is so frustrating to see is that she STILL has the opportunity to be that legend that her teen years seemed to promise. If she only weren't soooo pig-headed. Yes, I said it. P-I-G-H-E-A-D-E-D! She could be the proto-type of what the NEXT generation of dominant players would be.

Imagine a player that has the TACTICAL BRILLIANCE AND GUILE of vintage Martina Hingis and the power, athleticism and first-strike capability of the best of the Floridian power players! THAT player is the future of women's tennis.

I know this might sound strange coming from a Serena die-hard like myself, but I believe Hingis- while perhaps not able to FULLY become that player- can begin to point the way to that player. I think she would be rewarded with wins- major wins- because of it.

Unfortunately, there she sits in her petulant stubborness, refusing to listen to mom, refusing to listen to fiance', refusing to acknowledge that the tour, the game and sports in general are a living, breathing EVOLVING thing.

Yes, she will continue to be a top ten-er, maybe even top five, but it is almost criminal when someone with soooo much promise simply refuses to put in the extra effort to achieve above and beyond her already extraordinary career and take the game to it's next state of evolution.

Chrissie-fan
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:49 AM
The fact that people are arguing on behalf of this one time prodigy with ability out the wazoo who utterly dominated the tennis world as a teenager that we (and presumably, by extension, She) should simply be happy with the chance at cracking the top 5 in the world, tells us how far she's fallen and that she is underachieving.

The thing that is so frustrating to see is that she STILL has the opportunity to be that legend that her teen years seemed to promise. If she only weren't soooo pig-headed. Yes, I said it. P-I-G-H-E-A-D-E-D! She could be the proto-type of what the NEXT generation of dominant players would be.

Imagine a player that has the TACTICAL BRILLIANCE AND GUILE of vintage Martina Hingis and the power, athleticism and first-strike capability of the best of the Floridian power players! THAT player is the future of women's tennis.

I know this might sound strange coming from a Serena die-hard like myself, but I believe Hingis- while perhaps not able to FULLY become that player- can begin to point the way too that player. I think she would be rewarded with wins- major wins- because of it.

Unfortunately, there she sits in her petulant stubborness, refusing to listen to mom, refusing to listen to fiance', refusing to acknowledge that the tour, the game and sports in general are a living, breathing EVOLVING thing.

Yes, she will continue to be a top ten-er, maybe even top five, but it is almost criminal when someone with soooo much promise simply refuses to put in the extra effort to achieve above and beyond her already extraordinary career and take the game to it's next state of evolution.
I have to admit: That's one hell of a good post.:worship: ;)

spencercarlos
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:50 AM
The fact that people are arguing on behalf of this one time prodigy with ability out the wazoo who utterly dominated the tennis world as a teenager that we (and presumably, by extension, She) should simply be happy with the chance at cracking the top 5 in the world, tells us how far she's fallen and that she is underachieving.

The thing that is so frustrating to see is that she STILL has the opportunity to be that legend that her teen years seemed to promise. If she only weren't soooo pig-headed. Yes, I said it. P-I-G-H-E-A-D-E-D! She could be the proto-type of what the NEXT generation of dominant players would be.

Imagine a player that has the TACTICAL BRILLIANCE AND GUILE of vintage Martina Hingis and the power, athleticism and first-strike capability of the best of the Floridian power players! THAT player is the future of women's tennis.

I know this might sound strange coming from a Serena die-hard like myself, but I believe Hingis- while perhaps not able to FULLY become that player- can begin to point the way too that player. I think she would be rewarded with wins- major wins- because of it.

Unfortunately, there she sits in her petulant stubborness, refusing to listen to mom, refusing to listen to fiance', refusing to acknowledge that the tour, the game and sports in general are a living, breathing EVOLVING thing.

Yes, she will continue to be a top ten-er, maybe even top five, but it is almost criminal when someone with soooo much promise simply refuses to put in the extra effort to achieve above and beyond her already extraordinary career and take the game to it's next state of evolution.
Completly agree. Can´t have a better explanation or anything to add. :worship:

Derek.
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:56 AM
Hingis won't be able to do what Serena did at the AO because Serena can decide point after point herself vs. anyone.

Hingis needs the top 5 players (and a few remote others) to be a bit off to beat them.

Clijsters was way off at the AO and still beat Hingis.




I love how Hingis can win two Tier I titles since her comeback -- something that has not been accomplished in the entire careers of Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc. -- and yet there are more threads in GM about how much she sucks than all the previous players combined. :sad: :sad:


Yet they still beat her. ;)

And entire career is hard to say because you have a few under-20 yo players there. :lol:

But I love the effort LoveFifteen. :kiss:

spencercarlos
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:00 AM
"I'm not going to close myself in a cage for four weeks to do conditioning," Hingis said. "I wouldn't be able to hit a ball because I need the balance. In tennis you need to think and I've always been a thinker and love strategy. If I lose that and become too bulky, it wouldn't be good. I need to be more fluid. If I get too in-shape, I might start over-running the balls and that's not good either."
Have to say this is the most deluded and ridiculous thinking from a top player ever. She is not even a good thinker as she said.

This is pretty similar to her quotes after losing to Clijster at the Australian Open when she said something like "My game is not about power is about placing the ball" sort kind of sh.t. She is just to comitted, what get me more angry is the fact that she has not learned anything from the game and from each of her matches this part 15-16 months on the tour :rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:11 AM
Well...that's probably because there are higher expectations for Hingis. She's won 5 slams, been no.1 for a really long time and seemed to explode back on tour after a few years of retirement. I, personally was shocked at how fast she climbed back to the top. Hingis has already been no.1, has already won tons of titles, what's most important to her and to the people watching her is whether she can win slams. I believe she can. I've grown to like hingis' game and attitude (and unlike certain Hingis fans (cough...heylooki'mgay....cough) i can respect and enjoy her game even though i'm a fan of her nemesis the WS. I think she's just gotten too used to waiting for errors from her opponents. She's won many matches like that and because of that she has become passive. She needs to become more aggressive and construct her points. Basically she needs to play the way she did against Petrova at YEC 2006. I would love for her to win IW by beating Sharapova and Kuznetsova. That would make the rest of the season so interesting.

I agree.
I do not know what is with some posters, but this the main point they do not get.
Hingis was a child prodigy, for whom nothing was impossible, and who delighted palyers and spectators alike. In her heyday, it was not unusal for other players to stcik around after losing to watch her play.
As we all know she won 5 GS and came close to winning more.

So this is the backdrop of the discussion.
In many people's mind, ionce s a great athlete retire prematurely and decides to come, it is NOT EXPECTED s/he down live her pre-retirement performance.
And that is what frustrating to some people.
If she can't win as she used to, why come back at all?

There are 2 camps among the people who think this way.
The one who were aound tennis she was winning. These people think she
is running her legacy by performing under par, and clearly she is not able to beat the top versatile power players. You can even sense of
resignation in her fiance's and mother-coach half-hearted effort to get her to the gym.
Because her tennis mind is still there, she is just is not given the opportunity by other players to use it.

The seond category are the people who do not knnow much what Hingis accomplished in the past, and are just happy that she is playing at all.

Nicolás89
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:16 AM
i said this in another thread
i love how martina is doing i couldnt ask more for a comeback, i dont care if she is not able to beat serena or juju, i just wanna see her play winning some tourneys and staying in the top 10,

she is playing better than last year (for me) she is adding a bit more of pace in her serve, her volleys are better, she is playing doubles so it means that she is more fit and the stamina is ok, (in 3 setters she is closer to succeed:tape:)

Ryan
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:16 AM
Uh, you're generalizing WAY too much. I was around from 1999 onwards and saw her win a bunch of stuff. I'm just happy she's playing - obviously I want her to win a slam and every event she plays, but I am realistic and really just enjoy watching her play tennis.

williams123
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:19 AM
miss thing is through.

Ryan
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:20 AM
miss thing is through.

She's won more than Venus in the past year. :shrug:

spencercarlos
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:25 AM
I agree.
I do not know what is with some posters, but this the main point they do not get.
Hingis was a child prodigy, for whom nothing was impossible, and who delighted palyers and spectators alike. In her heyday, it was not unusal for other players to stcik around after losing to watch her play.
As we all know she won 5 GS and came close to winning more.

So this is the backdrop of the discussion.
In many people's mind, ionce s a great athlete retire prematurely and decides to come, it is NOT EXPECTED s/he will down live her pre-retirement performance.
And that is what frustrating to some people.
If she can't win as she used to, why come back at all?

There are 2 camps among the people who think this way.
The one who were aound tennis she was winning. These people think she
is running her legacy by performing under par, and clearly she is not able to beat the top versatile power players. You can even sense of
resignation in her fiance's and mother-coach half-hearted effort to get her to the gym.
Because her tennis mind is still there, she is just is not given the opportunity by other players to use it.

The seond category are the people who do not knnow much what Hingis accomplished in the past, and are just happy that she is playing at all.
I don´t care if she wins or loses with her old game, but if she gives her 100% effort to overcome today´s challenges that would be something. She just not doing that, and she will continue with her actual results, her great court sense and ability will take her probably to the last 8 or last 4 in a big event, but once she faces a tough foe, she will give her a good battle, but its a long losing battle, where she not only spends a lot of energy, but she will normally end in the losing side of that battle. Or lose in her later match because of being spent.

vejh
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:36 AM
Confidence is missing..confidence. I see it this past year more than ever. At the YEC she was so confident and playing with so much initiative. She was stoked. Now, the fear of the big hitters is getting to her, the fear of losing, the fear of failing..fear and lack of confidence. I see some of her matches now, and I see indecision, passiveness and a defeatist attitude sometimes. Hopefully she'll improve her mental game but admittedly it is hard to overcome fear and lack of self-belief.

Oh yeah, physically she needs endurance. That has been her problem through the ages..maybe that also affects her confidence.

UncleZeke
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:54 AM
wish she would hit the weights, get stronger.

spencercarlos
Mar 9th, 2007, 02:27 AM
Confidence is missing..confidence. I see it this past year more than ever. At the YEC she was so confident and playing with so much initiative. She was stoked. Now, the fear of the big hitters is getting to her, the fear of losing, the fear of failing..fear and lack of confidence. I see some of her matches now, and I see indecision, passiveness and a defeatist attitude sometimes. Hopefully she'll improve her mental game but admittedly it is hard to overcome fear and lack of self-belief.

Oh yeah, physically she needs endurance. That has been her problem through the ages..maybe that also affects her confidence.
Indeed if you are well trained and you know you can go the distance without losing much lenght and power on your groundstrokes of course it translate to confidence. But i still she needs more pop on her forehand and serve. She needs the gym.

Volcana
Mar 9th, 2007, 02:37 AM
Serena basically has her own history of quitting matches when she was about to get beaten, Wimbledon 99, Amelia Island 2000 should ring some bells. And with even worse excuses. Its not the first time players do that.Uh, Serena didn't play 1999 Wimbledon....

And, for better or worse, retiring from an opening round match of a Tier II is NOT the same as retiring from a GS final. As for 'worse' excuses, what was Serena's reason for retiring from AI that was 'worse' that quitting a GS final with a tummy ache.

But Heninīs performances of late ever since have shown to be the contrary, she is a great fighther and thatīs why she has won a lot of tournaments in the past year.She won a lot of tournaments in the past year by being one of the two best players in the world over that period.

A player that would put no fight at all would not have.I'm not saying she has NO fight. I'm just saying she's a player who can be made to quit.

lecciones
Mar 9th, 2007, 03:28 AM
The generalization about Hingis fans being just two is just..... a bit too general. I followed her career since 1997 so I've seen her heights. But, I do not see her as ruining her legacy. Her legacy is intact no matter what happens, her records are still intact up to now. What she did for the game in 1994-2002 is tremendous and has the strongest impact during those years for any player. I am a real big Martina fan and all I can say is to me she is the best and play as she wants because its her life and she's happy playing!

starin
Mar 9th, 2007, 06:26 AM
what I can't understand are her losses to Mauresmo. Mauresmo is not a power player and was being dominated by Hingis before she retired. Hingis has yet to beat Mauresmo since her comeback. I know Mauresmo won two slams...but I never really believed all the hype surrounding her. I still think Mauresmo is a player Hingis should be beating regularly. When she starst doing that again she'll be headed back to her old form(which I still think is good enough to keep her challenging at the top). Am I missing something about the Mauresmo/Hingis match up? I just can't understand why Hingis keeps losing ot her.

hwanmig
Mar 9th, 2007, 06:30 AM
Hingis will not need to worry, Kim is not playing RG so a semi is very likely.

lecciones
Mar 9th, 2007, 08:55 AM
Hopefully it turns out that way hwanmig :P There are just one thing i want for Martina in her tennis life and another thing for WTA in general. The French for Martina and Wimbledon for Kim. Then this year would be the sweetest year ever!

Chance
Mar 9th, 2007, 10:38 AM
why won't she admit that her serve needs improvement?????????

Talula
Mar 9th, 2007, 11:18 AM
why won't she admit that her serve needs improvement?????????

Along with a couple of other things!

It's great to have Martina back but as someone else said, it's not really a comeback anymore, she's back!

spencercarlos
Mar 9th, 2007, 11:45 AM
what I can't understand are her losses to Mauresmo. Mauresmo is not a power player and was being dominated by Hingis before she retired. Hingis has yet to beat Mauresmo since her comeback. I know Mauresmo won two slams...but I never really believed all the hype surrounding her. I still think Mauresmo is a player Hingis should be beating regularly. When she starst doing that again she'll be headed back to her old form(which I still think is good enough to keep her challenging at the top). Am I missing something about the Mauresmo/Hingis match up? I just can't understand why Hingis keeps losing ot her.
That is not entirely true, Hingis had lost her previous two times she faced Mauresmo before she quit in 2002.
Although i agree Mauresmo should be a player that Hingis may be able to play much more in her confort zone than other power top player.

Still Mauresmo is not a moonballer either and she has beaten a lot of power player as well, and "hype" alone does not win grand slams, especially Wimbledon where she won by finishing all of her matches, and played great grass court game.

TeamUSA#1
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:04 PM
What a crap article. And I agree with Hingis-- she doesn't need to become the hulk to start winning again. She needs to stick with her strengths, gain some more confidence, and if there is one are she would work on it would be endurance (sprints, etc...) so she could last longer, but not weight lifting...

Marcus Jordan
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:15 PM
LOL over-running balls!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHHAHha i bet she said that with a giggle :p

bandabou
Mar 9th, 2007, 12:44 PM
Don't think it's just size or being smaller..it's about heart also. Sometimes you HAVE to take risks. Look at Serena: when the chips are down, then it's when she comes her best shots, goes for the lines...hits a big serve, etc.

It's about mentality..you don't have to wait wait wait for the error. No, you have to take matters in your own hand. That is a thing Martina seems like she can't do anymore.

Hashim.
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:07 PM
its gonna be difficult..

LoveFifteen
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:09 PM
Dementieva, Schnyder, Ivanovic, Vaidisova, Jankovic, Chakvetadze, Safina, Hantuchova, Li, Peer, Golovin, etc.

Yet they still beat her. ;)

But I love the effort LoveFifteen. :kiss:

There's only one player on that list that I would say "beats" Hingis: Jelena Jankovic.

Since her comeback, Hingis's head-to-head against the rest is

Dementieva: 2-1

Ivanovic: 1-1

Vaidisova: 1-0

Chakvetadze: 1-0

Safina: 2-1

Hantuchova: 1-1

Li: 1-0

Peer: 1-0

LUIS9
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:37 PM
What a crap article. And I agree with Hingis-- she doesn't need to become the hulk to start winning again. She needs to stick with her strengths, gain some more confidence, and if there is one are she would work on it would be endurance (sprints, etc...) so she could last longer, but not weight lifting...

Actually she does need to go to the gym but to do some serious calisthenics and yes some sprinting. Intensive short spinning sessions can do the trick.

Her stamina and endurance are certainly not up to par. Getting that much needed endurance would do wonders to her confidence and she would come into many matches knowing she can withstand the heat of the battle and anything that her opponent may throw at her.

Veritas
Mar 9th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Well you seem to forget she enjoyed a great period between the end of 2000 and 2001, she came back and beat Venus, Serena (2 times), Davenport (2 times) and some other top players. I think that´s the best i have seen Hingis play, she hit throught her forehand at the time, and went for her shots, and was very agressive.

As Volcana said people in her camp are telling her the right thigs, i think she is doing a very stupid job of ignoring them, because Hingis is not improving at all. And she won´t win a grand slam with her current game.

I don't think Martina's "ignoring" the advice totally; it's more that she isn't taking them seriously.

It's good she's taking a more liberal approach since her comeback. She's not setting unrealistic goals and looks content with being just below the very top tier of women's tennis. Her passiveness on and off court gives it away.

But that won't do much for her if Grand Slam success is on the agenda. I agree that one thing Martina should do more is to work closely with her mum. There's no one in the world who's as familiar with her game than Melanie. She knows her daughter's strength and weaknesses and because of that, has a good idea of what needs to be done.

And let's be honest, Martina seems to be taking a more defeatist attitude. She's nowhere near as intense or competitive prior to her comeback and her mindset is probably the biggest setback she needs to overcome. It's much tougher to take initiative and see it through than to stick with what she's got (court craft) and hope to build on it. She's already proven her sense of the game; there's no need to work on that.

Like Volcana said, Henin is living proof that the physique needed for Grand Slam glory isn't necessarily height and bulk. Focusing just on cardio will burn muscle; any good fitness trainer will tell you that an athletic physique requires balance between muscle and cardio work.

PLP
Mar 9th, 2007, 03:13 PM
I don't think Martina's "ignoring" the advice totally; it's more that she isn't taking them seriously.

It's good she's taking a more liberal approach since her comeback. She's not setting unrealistic goals and looks content with being just below the very top tier of women's tennis. Her passiveness on and off court gives it away.

But that won't do much for her if Grand Slam success is on the agenda. I agree that one thing Martina should do more is to work closely with her mum. There's no one in the world who's as familiar with her game than Melanie. She knows her daughter's strength and weaknesses and because of that, has a good idea of what needs to be done.

And let's be honest, Martina seems to be taking a more defeatist attitude. She's nowhere near as intense or competitive prior to her comeback and her mindset is probably the biggest setback she needs to overcome. It's much tougher to take initiative and see it through than to stick with what she's got (court craft) and hope to build on it. She's already proven her sense of the game; there's no need to work on that.

Like Volcana said, Henin is living proof that the physique needed for Grand Slam glory isn't necessarily height and bulk. Focusing just on cardio will burn muscle; any good fitness trainer will tell you that an athletic physique requires balance between muscle and cardio work.

Absolutely! As much as I love Martina (and I know 1st hand how difficult it can be to listen to my mom) she needs to listen to her coach! Nobody knows her or her game better, including what she is capable of. Her mom is probably more disappointed with her recent losses than she is. I hope Melanie starts coming to tournaments with Martina again soon. Things would definitely change for the better IMHO!