PDA

View Full Version : Missing players disastrous for image of women's tennis


GoDominique
Mar 6th, 2007, 12:38 AM
I don't think most people on here realise how terrible it really is.

Men's tennis has its problems right now, with no one really threatening Federer. Still, he and his main "rivals" Nadal and Roddick will be at Indian Wells, as will be all the young guns (Murray, Djokovic, Gasquet et al.), making it an event that's guaranteed to have excitement and some great matches.

Women's tennis is in much deeper shit though.
We have a GS winner who, after being out for several months, returns steamrolling the rest of the field, only to vanish again.
We have arguably the best player on the tour right now and in the past few years who has just won two titles, yet she will miss the second biggest event of the year so far, after missing the first one as well.
And we have the current holder of two GS titles, firmly belonging in the top 4 players in the world, who will be absent as well.

Is it too bold to predict that the women's event will play second fiddle to the men in IW and be another anti-advertisement for the WTA?
As I said before, we need Serena vs. Justine, just like the ATP needs Federer vs. Nadal. They played many memorable matches last year, and not only at the Slams. This was possible because they actually played the same events (gasp!), and partly because the ATP system encourages them to do so.
But you can count the tournaments that will have both Justine and Serena in the draw on one hand, or maybe less.

Without any rivalries, women's tennis is doomed. Right now there are none because the top-players keep missing the biggest events. To them, the term "Tier I winner" is just as prestigious as it sounds - not at all. And that's a pathetic effort from all sides.

Vlover
Mar 6th, 2007, 12:54 AM
Quite frankly I couldn't care less about this tournie. I won't even watch it either because I'm in the east so I have no interest in staying up late.:p I just want these two weeks to go by quickly so Miami can begin.

scoobsuk
Mar 6th, 2007, 12:59 AM
It's only disastrous if all people do is focus on all this negativity. There's simply no need. This is not a mandatory tournament, it's got 6 of the top 10 women there thus fulfilling the agreement between the tournament and the WTA, and the field is pretty strong out of the top 10.

All this whining about who's not there just amplifies the feeling that this is a problem - it's not.

I think Indian Wells should be mandatory also and I gather moves are afoot to make it so by 2009, but at the moment it isn't and for an optional Tier 1 it has a very good field and I'm looking forward to it. Compared to Pan Pacific this year, Charleston last year and the mess that was Montreal, Indian Wells is doing pretty well to pull the players in. It's a stronger field than last year.

Wayn77
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:00 AM
15 of the top 20 have entered IW - I think we may be in for some excellent WTA tennis over the next couple of weeks. Can't wait for the tourney to start! :)

Matt01
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:01 AM
Well, it could be worse. If Justine decided to play IW instead of Miami like she did some years ago, the chance of Justine vs. Serena would be even lower (I know that Miami is mandatory now, but still :P)

stevos
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:33 AM
It's not THAT bad.

But how pathetic is this, Canada doesn't even get coverage :help:

shap_half
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:40 AM
I think the problem is scheduling.
With the MidEast tournies becoming sooo popular and Miami being mandatory, a tournament like IW is bound to get the shitty end of the stick. Especially next year when Doha becomes a Tier I.

goldenlox
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:41 AM
I think this is a great tournament. It has all the top men and most of the WTA's top 20.

hablo
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:41 AM
Is it too bold to predict that the women's event will play second fiddle to the men in IW and be another anti-advertisement for the WTA?
Even if the all the top players had shown up, the womens' tournie would still have played second fiddle to the mens' as it usually does. :yawn:
Canada doesn't even show it. :help:

Solitaire
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:23 AM
Even if the all the top players had shown up, the womens' tournie would still have played second fiddle to the mens' as it usually does. :yawn:
Canada doesn't even show it. :help:

That's mainly why I'm not a big fan of mixed events.


Sure it woulod be nice to have all the top players at IW but I don't think one tourney without all the top girls is really going to hurt the tour in the long run.


Plus the field is pretty darn good IMO. There are established players and raising stars. Maria & Martina are going to put butts in the seats.

brickhousesupporter
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:24 AM
I don't think most people on here realise how terrible it really is.

Men's tennis has its problems right now, with no one really threatening Federer. Still, he and his main "rivals" Nadal and Roddick will be at Indian Wells, as will be all the young guns (Murray, Djokovic, Gasquet et al.), making it an event that's guaranteed to have excitement and some great matches.

Women's tennis is in much deeper shit though.
We have a GS winner who, after being out for several months, returns steamrolling the rest of the field, only to vanish again.
We have arguably the best player on the tour right now and in the past few years who has just won two titles, yet she will miss the second biggest event of the year so far, after missing the first one as well.
And we have the current holder of two GS titles, firmly belonging in the top 4 players in the world, who will be absent as well.

Is it too bold to predict that the women's event will play second fiddle to the men in IW and be another anti-advertisement for the WTA?
As I said before, we need Serena vs. Justine, just like the ATP needs Federer vs. Nadal. They played many memorable matches last year, and not only at the Slams. This was possible because they actually played the same events (gasp!), and partly because the ATP system encourages them to do so.
But you can count the tournaments that will have both Justine and Serena in the draw on one hand, or maybe less.

Without any rivalries, women's tennis is doomed. Right now there are none because the top-players keep missing the biggest events. To them, the term "Tier I winner" is just as prestigious as it sounds - not at all. And that's a pathetic effort from all sides.

Not to nitpick, but Mauresmo currently holds 1 grandslam right now.

GoDominique
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:32 AM
Sure it woulod be nice to have all the top players at IW but I don't think one tourney without all the top girls is really going to hurt the tour in the long run.


Plus the field is pretty darn good IMO. There are established players and raising stars. Maria & Martina are going to put butts in the seats.
One??? It happens on a regular basis.

And the field is NOT pretty darn good, considering it's the 7th biggest event of the year. Three of the top 4 players are absent.

GoDominique
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:33 AM
Not to nitpick, but Mauresmo currently holds 1 grandslam right now.
Correct.

Bruno71
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:39 AM
Bigger picture: the WTA players feel there are too many tournaments and not enough time to rest. They don't want to play a lot. Call it what you want, but the idea of 2 tournaments back to back for many of the players strikes fear in their hearts.

Why Justine chose to play both ME tournies back to back instead of IW & Miami I don't know. I guess she just likes that area and those tournies better? We can all understand why she loves Dubai.

Serena...well...if she plays 5 total tournaments this year that'll be an improvement over last year.

How about Kim? Wtf is she up to? Skipping Roland Garros in her final year so that she can play Eastbourne? There's something just so wrong about that.

They need to space out these major tournies more, but at the same time they need to take measures to strongly discourage the diva attitudes of some of the top players, who only care about Grand Slams and perhaps YEC.

treufreund
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:49 AM
Amelie has only had 1 week off after several weeks of tourney with 2 finals. Justine won 2 of them back to back and would have to travel very far and then turn around and play Miami. Even Federer would not do that! Why Kim is skipping is a little harder to explain but she is phasing tennis out as she is retiring anyways. Maria skipped Dubai and Doha and got criticized but she was injured still. It's just too many events back to back to back so this is how it goes!

GoDominique
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:57 AM
Amelie has only had 1 week off after several weeks of tourney with 2 finals. Justine won 2 of them back to back and would have to travel very far and then turn around and play Miami. Even Federer would not do that! Why Kim is skipping is a little harder to explain but she is phasing tennis out as she is retiring anyways. Maria skipped Dubai and Doha and got criticized but she was injured still. It's just too many events back to back to back so this is how it goes!
I am aware of that, but that's not the point.

The male players schedule their other tournaments around the Masters events.
The female don't do the same for the big Tier I's.

switz
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:59 AM
At least the men's tournament will be great :bounce: The fact that Roger is highly likely to win doesn't bother because there's also so much quality tennis to watch throughout.

treufreund
Mar 6th, 2007, 03:05 AM
I am aware of that, but that's not the point.

The male players schedule their other tournaments around the Masters events.
The female don't do the same for the big Tier I's.

Until it's mandatory I can't say that I blame them. Besides, I think Dubai and Doha treat the players way better. That is something IW can improve upon!

williams123
Mar 6th, 2007, 04:22 AM
I don't think most people on here realise how terrible it really is.

Men's tennis has its problems right now, with no one really threatening Federer. Still, he and his main "rivals" Nadal and Roddick will be at Indian Wells, as will be all the young guns (Murray, Djokovic, Gasquet et al.), making it an event that's guaranteed to have excitement and some great matches.

Women's tennis is in much deeper shit though.
We have a GS winner who, after being out for several months, returns steamrolling the rest of the field, only to vanish again.
We have arguably the best player on the tour right now and in the past few years who has just won two titles, yet she will miss the second biggest event of the year so far, after missing the first one as well.
And we have the current holder of two GS titles, firmly belonging in the top 4 players in the world, who will be absent as well.

Is it too bold to predict that the women's event will play second fiddle to the men in IW and be another anti-advertisement for the WTA?
As I said before, we need Serena vs. Justine, just like the ATP needs Federer vs. Nadal. They played many memorable matches last year, and not only at the Slams. This was possible because they actually played the same events (gasp!), and partly because the ATP system encourages them to do so.
But you can count the tournaments that will have both Justine and Serena in the draw on one hand, or maybe less.

Without any rivalries, women's tennis is doomed. Right now there are none because the top-players keep missing the biggest events. To them, the term "Tier I winner" is just as prestigious as it sounds - not at all. And that's a pathetic effort from all sides.


get real. tennis need justine henin like a whole in the head. excuse me, but when did justine get on the great serena williams level?, when did this happen?, was it when she stole the french open from her?, i dont know, so tell me something cause i thought maria sharapova was suppose to be the williams beater.., oh wait, venus took her down at wimbldon in 05.., and serena just dismantled her at the oz. so your right, justine is the next hope i guess. if i were you i would'nt bet too much of your money on justine cause she's outgunned all day long.:help:

rrfnpump
Mar 6th, 2007, 04:35 AM
get real. tennis need justine henin like a whole in the head. excuse me, but when did justine get on the great serena williams level?, when did this happen?, was it when she stole the french open from her?, i dont know, so tell me something cause i thought maria sharapova was suppose to be the williams beater.., oh wait, venus took her down at wimbldon in 05.., and serena just dismantled her at the oz. so your right, justine is the next hope i guess. if i were you i would'nt bet too much of your money on justine cause she's outgunned all day long.:help:

:rolleyes: completely missed the point of the thread and spammed it with some "Williams are unbeatable" bullshit :o Justine beat Serena before this infamous French Open.

I agree with you GoDom, tennis needs the Williams, needs Henin around. Svetlana Kuzenstova is just not a character for example.

Bruno71
Mar 6th, 2007, 04:59 AM
get real. tennis need justine henin like a whole in the head. excuse me, but when did justine get on the great serena williams level?, when did this happen?, was it when she stole the french open from her?, i dont know, so tell me something cause i thought maria sharapova was suppose to be the williams beater.., oh wait, venus took her down at wimbldon in 05.., and serena just dismantled her at the oz. so your right, justine is the next hope i guess. if i were you i would'nt bet too much of your money on justine cause she's outgunned all day long.:help:


Exactly the type of Williams fan that undeservedly gives all the others a bad name. What a load of b.s.

go hingis
Mar 6th, 2007, 06:38 AM
They need to space out these major tournies more, but at the same time they need to take measures to strongly discourage the diva attitudes of some of the top players, who only care about Grand Slams and perhaps YEC.

I think only caring about the slams is ruining womens tennis and all the work the girls before have done. Remember back when the whole world would know who Martina, Lindsay, Serena, Venus and Anna are. It didn't happen overnight. The girls worked hard to bring sponsors, publicity, media coverage, more/equal prize money etc.

I think you can see how long the WTA Number 1 has held her place the past few years compared to the past. Before this generation we had such a small prestigious list of World Number 1's but now it's passed around like a hankie. That's why people still know more about and names of, old champs more than current multiple grandslam holders. Many girls are now coming into the game with the same attitude or once they reach the top they start to adopt it. Lindsay and Martina had no problem controlling the field all year long back in their day, meeting in many finals.

darrinbaker00
Mar 6th, 2007, 06:53 AM
Why Justine chose to play both ME tournies back to back instead of IW & Miami I don't know. I guess she just likes that area and those tournies better? We can all understand why she loves Dubai.
I can think of about a million reasons why Justine played both Middle East tournaments, my friend. ;)

jazar
Mar 6th, 2007, 06:58 AM
as long as sharapova is in the draw then the image of women's tennis is doing fine

SvetaPleaseWin.
Mar 6th, 2007, 07:01 AM
i dont think its as bad as youre making out-IW is known as one of the (many) tier Is that a lot of the top players miss out, this year its actually a pretty good field.
i think the problem is (when comparing entry lists with the atp) that some of tier IIs are preferred by players to the tier Is and they still offer decent points, whereas in the mens, they have the masters series and then there is a big drop to the international series or gold series whatever it is.
the men have 9 tournys excluding slams where everyone turns up, there are more top tournys in the wta-there isnt that much difference between the tier Is and IIs except for miami which is out on its own. therefore, in the atp there are more tournys with crappy entry lists but all the focus is on the masters series so it doesnt matter, in the wta-only some of the tier Is get coverage and quite frankly the average entry lists get a lot of stick.

as has been discussed sooo many times-the depth in the wta is increasing whereas in the mens it is decreasing. with players like jankovic, ivanovic, peer, vaidisova and, even though i hate to admit it, chakvetadze coming through and beating the best the game is in good shape. yes serena is always going to attract more attention for the tourny because shes bigger than the sport as is sharapova, venus etc. but lets face it, a tournamnet without serena, venus and henin is still interesting-a tournament without federer and nadal...pointless

Tennisation
Mar 6th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Do u think the top players lost motivation to go to IW just because other top players aren't there? I mean, if I was one of the best in the world, I'd only wanna play with the best. Beating the subpar players don't heighten their glory even if the money is good, especially since they're all millionaires already (with the exception of Maria cuz Yuri is just a money hungry cow).

Kunal
Mar 6th, 2007, 07:50 AM
yea it really sucks

lecciones
Mar 6th, 2007, 08:03 AM
I think only caring about the slams is ruining womens tennis and all the work the girls before have done. Remember back when the whole world would know who Martina, Lindsay, Serena, Venus and Anna are. It didn't happen overnight. The girls worked hard to bring sponsors, publicity, media coverage, more/equal prize money etc.

I think you can see how long the WTA Number 1 has held her place the past few years compared to the past. Before this generation we had such a small prestigious list of World Number 1's but now it's passed around like a hankie. That's why people still know more about and names of, old champs more than current multiple grandslam holders. Many girls are now coming into the game with the same attitude or once they reach the top they start to adopt it. Lindsay and Martina had no problem controlling the field all year long back in their day, meeting in many finals.


Grandslams are great but too much attention is being pulled away from the Tiered tournaments. The no.1 ranking doesnt sound as great anymore as it used to, and thats particularly because may girls would rather concentrate on winning more grandslams and then picking only a few tiered tournaments to pass time for the next grandslam. I most probably am wrong, but I'm sure Doha and Dubai have too much appearance fees and so playing there back to back many players need a break in between that and Miami. But all in all as stated above 15 of the top 20 are in the draw so thats not bad at all.

Solitaire
Mar 6th, 2007, 09:57 AM
One??? It happens on a regular basis.

And the field is NOT pretty darn good, considering it's the 7th biggest event of the year. Three of the top 4 players are absent.



IMO it's a good field. Could it be better of course. But the top girls can't play week in and week out they need a break. The Middle East swing and Miami really hurt IW. As for the players themselves schedules and injuries keep them from entering more tournies.

The tour is much more than just the top players. Many people have favs that aren't at the top and will pay to go see them. As I said before Martina & Maria are big names that will get people to come.


I think the image of women's tennis is just fine. No matter what happens on the tour people will always say something negative about it.

lauro78
Mar 6th, 2007, 10:40 AM
tennis is NOT centered to only a handful of players.

supergrunt
Mar 6th, 2007, 10:45 AM
Isn't the men's event a masters series? That could bewhy all the top men are there! Just a thought.

goldenlox
Mar 6th, 2007, 10:50 AM
If the WTA wants all the top players in California in April, they have to make IW mandatory, or move the middle east tournaments to a different month, because they offer huge appearance fees to a few players.
And they will make it mandatory for 2009, and almost double the prizemoney.

TSequoia01
Mar 6th, 2007, 12:10 PM
I can think of about a million reasons why Justine played both Middle East tournaments, my friend. ;)

Exactly, I could be wrong but due to Serena's ranking they may not have offered her much money so she passed.

TSequoia01
Mar 6th, 2007, 12:24 PM
I think only caring about the slams is ruining womens tennis and all the work the girls before have done. Remember back when the whole world would know who Martina, Lindsay, Serena, Venus and Anna are. It didn't happen overnight. The girls worked hard to bring sponsors, publicity, media coverage, more/equal prize money etc.

I think you can see how long the WTA Number 1 has held her place the past few years compared to the past. Before this generation we had such a small prestigious list of World Number 1's but now it's passed around like a hankie. That's why people still know more about and names of, old champs more than current multiple grandslam holders. Many girls are now coming into the game with the same attitude or once they reach the top they start to adopt it. Lindsay and Martina had no problem controlling the field all year long back in their day, meeting in many finals.

Players came to an understanding that being #1 was just an incentive for them to play too much. As the injuries mounted up many who go deep in every tournament pushed it aside as a goal. In addition those who miss slams due to over playing which causes injuries, started counting up the money. It just did not pay. Serena realizes winning a million versus 100k or less was just smart economics. Venus just won Memphis and pocketed what 28k? To these girls thats chump change. Of course they must play to keep their fitness but they will be damn picky as to who and when. :smoke:

Volcana
Mar 6th, 2007, 12:38 PM
Is it too bold to predict that the women's event will play second fiddle to the men in IW and be another anti-advertisement for the WTA?The women's event would have been 'second fiddle' anyway. As for being an 'anti-advertisement', that depends on the players. Who are they gonna show among the women, and is it going to compare favorably to the men for the average fan?

In the USA, this is the first time since OZ that most people will get to see tennis. Their last image, if they HAVE a 'last image', is Serena's destruction of Sharpaova at that tournament. That's a tough performance to follow.

Who's matched will we see besides Sharapova's. From the perspective of an American TV producer, this tournament's 2nd biggest star on the women's side is Hingis, with nobody third. If Peer makes a run, it'll help the ratings in the New York market, but overall, there aren;t many places to turn in this tournmaent if you need a female star.

Conversely, you can view the weakness of the tournament as an opportunity. This tournament made Daniela Hantuchova a star. For a couple years anyway. A sufficiently telegenic player who beats Sharapova in the final could see a significant jump in subsidiary income. I'm sure Vaidisova's agent is having trouble sleeping, thinking of the possibilities.

Paneru
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:29 PM
tennis is NOT centered to only a handful of players.

Yet, when it comes to major
marketing by the WTA, it sure is.

Vlover
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:46 PM
Especially next year when Doha becomes a Tier I.

Oh good, I hope Venus/Serena include this in their schedule for next year then rest for Miami.:D

Pureracket
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:47 PM
I knew this would happen. . . .I knew this would happen. The very people/posters who can't stand the mere existence of the Williams Sisters(including the threadstarter) are citing the absence of the Sisters for the lack of quality in a tourney.

You can't have it both ways. When Venus and Serena play, you hate them. Now that they're not, leave them alone.

Sinnet
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Personally, I find it foolish to play Indian Wells AND Miami; that's four weeks of consecutive match play. Regardless of having a day off in between matches, that's a long time, not to mention the travel in between tournaments. I prefer Miami, and cannot wait. :)

GoDominique
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:56 PM
The above post represents: selective reading, lack of comprehension, paranoia, obsession, and overall idiocy.

Impressive. :)

GoDominique
Mar 6th, 2007, 01:57 PM
Oh, of course I meant Pureracket's post. :)

Pureracket
Mar 6th, 2007, 02:04 PM
The above post represents: selective reading, lack of comprehension, paranoia, obsession, and overall idiocy.

Impressive. :)You're German, right?;)