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CaptnMatt
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Seriously, every 2nd thread I read about Martina is about the number of tournaments she's entered and the fact that she doesn't deserve her ranking or seeding.

These people are full of absolute crap.

I'm not going to list Hingis' credentials and achievements in the past year - but in my opinion - her ranking of No.6 is accurate (and at times I think she's better than Kuznetsova who is above her - and results support that).

So what if she is 2nd seed at Indian Wells (she's actually 3rd seed now that Kuznetsova has entered)???
Hingis deserves to be where she is. There are MANY players around her who play just as many or MORE to achieve their ranking and nobody ever says a thing.

Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Schnyder, Petrova, Vaidisova, Chakvetadze, Safina, Ivanovic and Jankovic have all played more tournaments and are 'BEHIND' Hingis. It has nothing to do with the number of tournaments played.....she deserves to be where she is and plays no more tournaments (20 in total) than any other player who is injury-free in the top 10.

On top of that, I'm sick of everyone jumping on the bandwagon....''Hingis should retire'', ''hingis is losing her legacy'', ''hingis is hopeless'' because she loses.

Yes, she lost to Hantuchova after being up 6-1 4-1....but people who actually watch the match will see that whilst Hingis could have played better, Hantuchova was really on fire. Everybody has their off-days....it doesn't mean that Hingis is not as good anymore....She won Tokyo just a month ago beating Dementieva and Ivanovic in succession....how bout people focus on the positives rather than negatives??

I dare say that most criticism is from Williams supporters who feel now that Serena has won a slam again that they can open their mouths with crap about Hingis.....If Serena played more, yeah she'd be ranked above Martina (BUT SHE'D ALSO BE RANKED ABOVE THE OTHER 14 PLAYERS WHO ARE CURRENTLY ABOVE HER, ALTHOUGH MAYBE NOT HENIN)...the fact is, she doesn't play enough tournaments.....Hingis deserves her ranking and her seeding at Indian Wells. Period.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:29 AM
:rolleyes:

Another slap at slap at Williams fans. :rolleyes:

Tie-Break
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:34 AM
You have to look at where it's coming from and then you'll get your answer Captain. It's pretty obvious really. Most other fan bases respect Martina ... (except maybe two) :) , but then again, they diss most fan bases, so it's not surprising is it? :shrug:

Remember Captain, those dissing and criticising are the ones sitting at home in front of their computer whilst Martina is the legend and multi-millionairess tennis player - something all the dissers have wanted to be but could not.

Tie-Break
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:36 AM
:rolleyes:

Another slap at slap at Williams fans. :rolleyes:

Not surprised are you? It is mainly the Williams fans that slag off the other players, so it's understandable.

venus_rulez
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:42 AM
Because despite all the criticisms of her game, she hasn't really improved any of the aspects of her game to be a true bonaide contender at the slams. This isn't about disliking Hingis (which I do) it's just plain true. For all the talk about Venus' technique on the forehand and on her serve, when it's all working (like it was in Wimbledon 05) she is still a force to be reckoned with and anybody would be a fool to bet against her. Hingis has pretty much maxed out her game with the way she's playing. Of course it's still an amazing game (she is number 6 after all) but the game she's playing now is the same game she was playing in 2000 and she still hasn't won a slam. Is it good enough to beat the power players? Well yeah, but she can't rely on it to beat a bunch of them in succession just like she couldn't count on it before she retired.

Frode
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:42 AM
Sucksess=Jealousy=Criticism



Same for Maria Sharapova, S. williams, JJ or whoevers on a roll.

Just the way this board is.

!<blocparty>!
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:43 AM
I've never dissed her for her ranking (which is, obviously, fully deserved IMO) but I have been been critical after some her her performances so far this year.

I don't know if I can call myself a fan, but I like Hingis a lot, and want to see her do well. So when she puts in these complete bullshit performances (Kim, Na @ the AO, Hantuchova @ Quatar) it's just really, really frustrating. The Hingis of old would be a MAJOR force on the tour today. It's hard to understand how such a great player can go backwards.

SJW
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:47 AM
Because seeing Hingis lose to players like Hantuchova is disappointing.
She's better than that.
Have you ever thought that she may get stick from Williams fans because Hingis fans dish out a lot of shit too? Imagine that.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:50 AM
Seriously, every 2nd thread I read about Martina is about the number of tournaments she's entered and the fact that she doesn't deserve her ranking or seeding.

That thread was started by a JuJu fan, NOT a Williams fan.

So, if we're REALLY considering the source, consider that.

Wayn77
Mar 5th, 2007, 01:53 AM
I might wind-up a few of her fans here from time to time - but I enjoy watching Martina. I hear a lot about the Hingis of old, can someone tell me what is missing from comeback Hingis's game compared to Hingis in her no. 1 pomp. Is it simply the power which is the difference - are these girls on tour just returning a lot heavier, more consistently now?

faboozadoo15
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:01 AM
The only criticism I can see of Hingis is that at times, she could be doing even better. Right now in tennis, she has the perfect opportunity to add to her slam tally, but she needs to get her heart into it.

Hingis was so good so early she didn't even need to learn how to fight. It's almost amazing if you think about how easily she dominated. Now's the time where she needs to wear her heart on her sleeve. I'm glad she's out there having a great time in the top 10. Nobpdy's taking that away, but she's already blown the australian open this year, if you ask me (she should have beaten kim...) I just really hope to see her shine on the clay and FINALLY win roland garros. Her star and legend status would shine 10X brighter if she could find the heart to win the event she was born to win.

Mother_Marjorie
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:05 AM
That thread was started by a JuJu fan, NOT a Williams fan.

So, if we're REALLY considering the source, consider that.
You are so fucking obsessed with Justine, its pathetic.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:08 AM
...can someone tell me what is missing from comeback Hingis's game compared to Hingis in her no. 1 pomp.

Belief and daring are what's missing from game in her "no. 1 pomp." But even then she was struggling with power. Also, no REAL weapon that she can depend on other than her guile (which is considerable), but even that can be nullified with power and accuracy.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:09 AM
You are so fucking obsessed with Justine, its pathetic.

I just stated a fact. :shrug:

Kenny
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:09 AM
....She won Tokyo just a month ago beating Dementieva and Ivanovic in succession....how bout people focus on the positives rather than negatives??

No one does that, and neither do you.. or else you would say atleast there aren't that many threads about Martina.. or you might say wow a lot of these people keep Martina on their mind... or a multitude of many different options.

;)

faboozadoo15
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:14 AM
I might wind-up a few of her fans here from time to time - but I enjoy watching Martina. I hear a lot about the Hingis of old, can someone tell me what is missing from comeback Hingis's game compared to Hingis in her no. 1 pomp. Is it simply the power which is the difference - are these girls on tour just returning a lot heavier, more consistently now?

Basically. Also if you look at when Hingis dominated, she had Graf out, she outplayed Monica for 2 years before Monica learned how to beat her, and by virtue Martina is better than Arantxa and the rest of the game at that time. Also, the heavy hitters couldn't find their range against Hingis. She could throw them off balance, and she could force THEM to react to her instead of it being the other way around. Players weren't confident enough to take the first strike away from Hingis.

She can still do all tyhose things. There are just more players who can take the initiative away from her. She needs to be riskier in her game yet still make no errors if she wasn't to win a major. She needs to be at net and serving bigger too.

thelittlestelf
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:45 AM
Basically. Also if you look at when Hingis dominated, she had Graf out, she outplayed Monica for 2 years before Monica learned how to beat her, and by virtue Martina is better than Arantxa and the rest of the game at that time. Also, the heavy hitters couldn't find their range against Hingis. She could throw them off balance, and she could force THEM to react to her instead of it being the other way around. Players weren't confident enough to take the first strike away from Hingis.

She can still do all tyhose things. There are just more players who can take the initiative away from her. She needs to be riskier in her game yet still make no errors if she wasn't to win a major. She needs to be at net and serving bigger too.Totally agree. Back in 97-00 (and in sporadic periods after that) Martina was so much more agressive and confident. Her serve, though it was never a weapon, wasn't a weakness either and when she wanted to she could win cheap points off of it. Martina is really so talented and, while many people might believe that she has reached her capacity at #6 in the world/never winning another slam, I believe she is more than talented enough to become a huge threat for every title.

Polikarpov
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:50 AM
This can be said about almost all the fanbases here.

Drake1980
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:07 AM
Very well written

tae04
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:13 AM
Go Martina. I'm a Hingis and Williams fan. Hingis doesn't deserve the criticism. She makes her QFs at least, so she is still doing good. She's not the favorite but always can be somewhat a contender anywhere. Hope she does well next week.

tennisbum79
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:29 AM
This criticism of Hingis is not new.
This also surfaced the last couple years before her retirement.
In those years, it was customary for the number 1 ranked palyer to win at least GS in the year she was number 1.
But Hingis had not won a GS for awhile, and yet she she was # 1 or ranked very high.
And the crticism came mainly from the press, MC, Johnny Mac, Pat Mac, etc.

They were saying that she was playing the ranking system as a game: enter many tournament to rake point and keep your ranking up.

So as much as many posters would like to blame the WS fans, it is not they
who first brought this up.
I know some posters are quiet young and may not recall what went on then.
On the other hand, posters old enough to know just are playing the ommision game by blaming the convenient and easy vilain that is the Williams Fans base.

treufreund
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:40 AM
Hingis is held to a different standard. It's unfair in many ways but, otoh, it is because people expect a lot from her.

Chrissie-fan
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:43 AM
Maybe if the fans of all three players could accept that Martina, Serena and Venus are all wonderful players and that we should be happy to witness their rivalry we wouldn't have any problems whatsoever.:shrug:

tennisbum79
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:52 AM
Hingis is held to a different standard. It's unfair in many ways but, otoh, it is because people expect a lot from her.
To take it further, she is a 5-time GS champions.
And soem fans expect her to perform at the same level of her winnig years.

The rationale the way I undersatnd it goes like this.
Hingis came back because she knows she can win again.
During the years spent behind the microphone watchnig these players, she has fgiured out how to beat them.

Otherwise, why a former, gifted, mutli GS winner would come from retirement
to play at the same level she was playing just before retiring?
Mind you, she was disatisfied with that levele of palying.

Did what she did not like then in her performance level
suddenly become acceptable to her now?
Has she lowered her standards to accept the role of just an average player who will not beat
a top ranked, versatile power player again?
And she if she can't, then she will not win a GS.
So why did she come back?

Kabezya
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:59 AM
Maybe if the fans of all three players could accept that Martina, Serena and Venus are all wonderful players and that we should be happy to witness their rivalry we wouldn't have any problems whatsoever.:shrug:

This is how it should it be.

danieln1
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:02 AM
Great thread, it could be a way to silent these haters...

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:07 AM
Maybe if the fans of all three players could accept that Martina, Serena and Venus are all wonderful players and that we should be happy to witness their rivalry we wouldn't have any problems whatsoever.:shrug:

I agree. As I've said many times. I'm not a fan of Hingis' but I truly admire her- and for more than just her play. I admire the mentality she brings to the game. Sure, I don't EVER want to see her beating my faves again. :lol: Never ever! But I think she's incredibly facinating.

Earlier a poster (I won't mention names because I don't want to glorify the incident) accused me of being obsessed or something like it of JuJu. Actually, it would have been much more accurate to say I'm "obsessed" with Hingis (if it were possible for me to be obsessed by any player other than Serena ;) )

Hingis is truly facinating in as much as her play as her personality- like it or hate it. She's a compelling swirl of diva, petulant kid, virtuoso with a racquet and glorious, infuriating irreverence. I've probably posted more about her than any other player who's last name wasn't Williams.

I think part of the reason the name Williams comes up so quickly when Hingy's name is mentioned is because the careers of all three- mainly Vee's and Martina's- are so inextricably linked. I think history will always bring up a Williams when Hingis' name comes up in discussions of tennis history. :shrug:

cellophane
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:15 AM
Because she hasn't been past the quarters of a slam. Because she is still top 10, even though she isn't as good as she was in 2002. Because she plays passive tennis these days.

brodle1
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:17 AM
I think she came back to win the FO. It is decidely missing from her resume, and in my opinion, she should be able to give Henin a run for her money for the title. I never could quite figure out that of all the slams Hingis has the FO is the one she's missing as it helps to negate power and favors placement and strategy which is Hingis's style of play (why it's my favorite tourney too), and rewards fitness (which is the one thing I think Hingis has improved on in her return).

Why she's held to a different standard - I don't know? There are a few players on this board who seem to be held to different standards and Hingis is amongst them. Perhaps it is because most of them are former champions or individuals who people think "should" be a champion so their losses bring more disappointments?

I also don't understand what goes on this board with people. I love tennis. I was happy to find a place where knowledgable tennis fans could talk about tennis. However after registering last year I only posted two times until the last several weeks because people here seem to want to engage in arguments with eachother about comments they make. I for one can honestly say I don't "hate" any player. However, on here I have to admit I am a bit afraid to make comments that are critical of players because people seem so willing to jump on the "hater" bandwagon. This is just my little rant - it would be a lot nicer here if people could be allowed to be critical (not everyone who is critical is a "hater" BTW).

Anyway, I wish Hingis success and am rooting for her to win the FO because it would really be a big story for women's tennis.

PLP
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:25 AM
I agree. As I've said many times. I'm not a fan of Hingis' but I truly admire her- and for more than just her play. I admire the mentality she brings to the game. Sure, I don't EVER want to see her beating my faves again. :lol: Never ever! But I think she's incredibly facinating.

Earlier a poster (I won't mention names because I don't want to glorify the incident) accused me of being obsessed or something like it of JuJu. Actually, it would have been much more accurate to say I'm "obsessed" with Hingis (if it were possible for me to be obsessed by any player other than Serena ;) )

Hingis is truly facinating in as much as her play as her personality- like it or hate it. She's a compelling swirl of diva, petulant kid, virtuoso with a racquet and glorious, infuriating irreverence. I've probably posted more about her than any other player who's last name wasn't Williams.

I think part of the reason the name Williams comes up so quickly when Hingy's name is mentioned is because the careers of all three- mainly Vee's and Martina's- are so inextricably linked. I think history will always bring up a Williams when Hingis' name comes up in discussions of tennis history. :shrug:

Excellent point!

Now that all three are mid-20's and we don't know how much longer they will be in the game, I hope more posters can appreciate all that they have done and respect it, even if you're not a fan...of course all of that will go to shit the next time Martina plays either sister, but those are the matches that I watch tennis for! :devil:

BTW, the poster who made a point of Martina having to play 'with her heart' is 100% spot on. Hingis obviously loves the game so much but I think she is practical and looks at it as her 'job', which it is. I think if she could get a bit more emotionally invested in a match though, she will start winning more 3 setters. She is in the best shape ever, of her career, and while that can always be improved upon it's not the reason that she has lost more of these matches than won since her comeback, at least IMHO!

tonybotz
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:34 AM
she is criticized because she is a former dominant world number one. simple as that. comes with the territory.

hdfb
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:44 AM
I'm a big Hingis fan but I do have to admit I do see where some people are coming from. Maybe it's just the overall lack of quality in the tour right now, but Martina has lost some matches in recent times which she should have won. Personally I think a ranking of around 10 would be suitable. 6 just doesn't seem right at this stage.

ico4498
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:06 AM
Seriously, every 2nd thread I read about Martina is about the number of tournaments she's entered and the fact that she doesn't deserve her ranking or seeding.

you're placing way too much importance on opinions here. fans post in these "threads" ... it's hardly balanced or reasonable, certainly not objective.

enjoy her while yah can, its just tennis.

Black Mamba.
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:16 AM
Last time I checked 90% of the Martina threads haven't been started by us and in reality most of the criticism comes from her own fans so fall back and get your facts straight

tennisbum79
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:24 AM
Last time I checked 90% of the Martina threads haven't been started by us and in reality most of the criticism comes from her own fans so fall back and get your facts straight
I think it has become convenient and acceptable to blame the Williams fans
when one does not know who to blame.
yes the Williams fans are now the convinient vilain for lazy posters who refuse
to look deeper into matters.

The fact is, Hingis has been criticized for playing the ranking game before she retired.
And that was by the press.

Marcus Jordan
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:30 AM
Because despite all the criticisms of her game, she hasn't really improved any of the aspects of her game to be a true bonaide contender at the slams. This isn't about disliking Hingis (which I do) it's just plain true. For all the talk about Venus' technique on the forehand and on her serve, when it's all working (like it was in Wimbledon 05) she is still a force to be reckoned with and anybody would be a fool to bet against her. Hingis has pretty much maxed out her game with the way she's playing. Of course it's still an amazing game (she is number 6 after all) but the game she's playing now is the same game she was playing in 2000 and she still hasn't won a slam. Is it good enough to beat the power players? Well yeah, but she can't rely on it to beat a bunch of them in succession just like she couldn't count on it before she retired.

Hingis improved her serve clearly since returning. And she's reached the quarters in 3 of the 5 slams she played since returning. And Clijsters defeated her in all 3 slam quarter-finals (narrow losses in 2 of the 3). If Hingis wasn't a contender in the slams she wouldn't be making the quarters and losing in tight matches.

cellophane
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:01 AM
Hingis improved her serve clearly since returning. And she's reached the quarters in 3 of the 5 slams she played since returning. And Clijsters defeated her in all 3 slam quarter-finals (narrow losses in 2 of the 3). If Hingis wasn't a contender in the slams she wouldn't be making the quarters and losing in tight matches.

Frankly, if she couldn't beat a horrible Kim at the Australian Open, then she isn't if she continues playing like this.

hingisGOAT
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:02 AM
yeah, we get it, don't blame the williams fans... who are here to criticize her in yet one more thread :haha:

anyway, hingis gets a lot of criticism because of two reasons.

1) people know she's got more talent than the rest of the tour combined, and expect bigger things from her, and

2) she's whipped everyone's favorite at one point or another, probably numerous times in important matches nonetheless :)

mm1147
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:05 AM
they just can't accept that martina is back and doing better:devil:

venus_rulez
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:07 AM
Hingis improved her serve clearly since returning. And she's reached the quarters in 3 of the 5 slams she played since returning. And Clijsters defeated her in all 3 slam quarter-finals (narrow losses in 2 of the 3). If Hingis wasn't a contender in the slams she wouldn't be making the quarters and losing in tight matches.


She's clearly improved her serve? I'm not buying that at all. And she's a contender, yes, a former number one is always in with a shot, but she's not a true contender because as I said, playing the way she currently does, she is not able to handle the 2 or 3 power players she is likely to have to beat in a high pressure situation in a slam. She hasn't been able to do it since mid 1999, she certainly is going to have difficulty doing it in 2007.

venus_rulez
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:08 AM
yeah, we get it, don't blame the williams fans... who are here to criticize her in yet one more thread :haha:

anyway, hingis gets a lot of criticism because of two reasons.

1) people know she's got more talent than the rest of the tour combined, and expect bigger things from her, and

2) she's whipped everyone's favorite at one point or another, probably numerous times in important matches nonetheless :)



So am I to assume that Venus gets criticized all the time because she's won 5 slams and has whipped everyone's faves at one point or another?

hingisGOAT
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:13 AM
So am I to assume that Venus gets criticized all the time because she's won 5 slams and has whipped everyone's faves at one point or another?

while GM contains many hingis threads on the front page alone, you would have to do some serious searching to find anyone who wants to start a thread about venus :wavey:

which is not to say venus isn't criticized, but she's not a hot topic of interest, discussion, and criticism like martina hingis.

also, you conveniently ignored my first point, which was that we all know hingis' talent level is perhaps the greatest ever. we also know that venus is technically incapable of hitting quite a few different shots. so people expect more of hingis, naturally.

a more logical comparison would be serena. serena is constantly criticized, because her talent level is so high and people expect great things from her, and because she whips everyones favorites.

Aaron.
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:21 AM
Because of heylookimgay.

venus_rulez
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:32 AM
while GM contains many hingis threads on the front page alone, you would have to do some serious searching to find anyone who wants to start a thread about venus :wavey:

which is not to say venus isn't criticized, but she's not a hot topic of interest, discussion, and criticism like martina hingis.

also, you conveniently ignored my first point, which was that we all know hingis' talent level is perhaps the greatest ever. we also know that venus is technically incapable of hitting quite a few different shots. so people expect more of hingis, naturally.

a more logical comparison would be serena. serena is constantly criticized, because her talent level is so high and people expect great things from her, and because she whips everyones favorites.


I didn't conveniently ignore it, I chose to ignore it because, as I've said many times before, you can have all the talent in the world and hit every shot in the book, but if someone can blow the ball by you, that talent doesn't help much.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 5th, 2007, 06:42 AM
I didn't conveniently ignore it, I chose to ignore it because, as I've said many times before, you can have all the talent in the world and hit every shot in the book, but if someone can blow the ball by you, that talent doesn't help much.

...AND if Hingis could "hit every shot..." what's the deal with that serve? :confused: I imagine that if people scrutinized Hingis' service techinique like, say, Dementieva's serve or Vee's forehand, they'd have to conclude that her game- and the technique therein- DOES have flaws. So this idea that Hingis posesses every shot is just a misnomer. Justine possesses every shot.

hingis-seles
Mar 5th, 2007, 07:37 AM
Hingis gets criticised so much because she still matters.

lecciones
Mar 5th, 2007, 08:32 AM
You have to look at where it's coming from and then you'll get your answer Captain. It's pretty obvious really. Most other fan bases respect Martina ... (except maybe two) :) , but then again, they diss most fan bases, so it's not surprising is it? :shrug:

Remember Captain, those dissing and criticising are the ones sitting at home in front of their computer whilst Martina is the legend and multi-millionairess tennis player - something all the dissers have wanted to be but could not.


To be TOTALLY honest with you all. The fan bases and players I totally like are: JH, Kim, MS, MK, DH, so many.... just respect NP, SK to name a few, nuetral Graf and Capriati (hehehe well cant get my mind off RG and AO, i totally respect their achievements though esp Graf, unbelievable) But there is one fan base and player/s that always jump from between hate/dislike/nuetral/and respect.

I might wind-up a few of her fans here from time to time - but I enjoy watching Martina. I hear a lot about the Hingis of old, can someone tell me what is missing from comeback Hingis's game compared to Hingis in her no. 1 pomp. Is it simply the power which is the difference - are these girls on tour just returning a lot heavier, more consistently now?

As with other posts, power has to do a lot with it, alongside the lack of belief in herself which is actually a result of losing to power players when she definitely 100% knows what to do to win in her brain but then just can't do it because sometimes the balls are just too powerful.

The only criticism I can see of Hingis is that at times, she could be doing even better. Right now in tennis, she has the perfect opportunity to add to her slam tally, but she needs to get her heart into it.

Hingis was so good so early she didn't even need to learn how to fight. It's almost amazing if you think about how easily she dominated. Now's the time where she needs to wear her heart on her sleeve. I'm glad she's out there having a great time in the top 10. Nobpdy's taking that away, but she's already blown the australian open this year, if you ask me (she should have beaten kim...) I just really hope to see her shine on the clay and FINALLY win roland garros. Her star and legend status would shine 10X brighter if she could find the heart to win the event she was born to win.

Agree. Perfect oppurtunity now. Needs to give more of herself (110,000% of her mental self). Belief, she needs to believe she can win or else her body loses it.
Oh yeah and I agee with faboozadoo15's other post that she needs to increase her wins but still maintain her UE's low.

She's clearly improved her serve? I'm not buying that at all. And she's a contender, yes, a former number one is always in with a shot, but she's not a true contender because as I said, playing the way she currently does, she is not able to handle the 2 or 3 power players she is likely to have to beat in a high pressure situation in a slam. She hasn't been able to do it since mid 1999, she certainly is going to have difficulty doing it in 2007.

YEC 06 has some great serving by Martina. Better when she was no.1. Honestly, her serve now is a lot better.

Chrissie-fan
Mar 5th, 2007, 11:26 AM
The fact is, Hingis has been criticized for playing the ranking game before she retired.
And that was by the press.
Yes, but you know that the press always must have something to complain about. I don't see why playing many tournaments to keep up her ranking would be any worse than only playing a few as the Williams sisters have done lately. What should Hingis have done? Should she have said to herself, "Gee, I haven't won a slam, so I better not compete in those smaller tournaments so that Jenny, Venus or Lindsay can be # 1 in the rankings"?

bandabou
Mar 5th, 2007, 11:45 AM
arte those martina-threads really being started by a real Williams-fan? I can't imagine that. Why would any Williams-fan bother with that?

Chrissie-fan
Mar 5th, 2007, 11:58 AM
as I said, playing the way she currently does, she is not able to handle the 2 or 3 power players she is likely to have to beat in a high pressure situation in a slam. She hasn't been able to do it since mid 1999, she certainly is going to have difficulty doing it in 2007.
Martina Hingis hasn't got the physique of a Sharapova, Mauresmo, the Williams sisters, Clijsters or any of the other top players (with the possible exception of Henin who has to work so hard to keep up with the big girls that it almost endangers her health). And being big and strong is now almost mandatory to be a success in tennis. It's a bit absurd to compare maybe, but in other sports that require a lot of physical strenght such as weightlifting, judo or boxing, Hingis would be competing in a different weight division than those other girls. Hingis is almost like a welterweight competing in the heavyweight division, so to speak. The fact that the comparitively frail Hingis, despite her clear physical disadvantages is able to hold her own in the age of the big and strong power players at all is something worthy of praise IMO. It's in fact remarkable and it proves what a terrific talent she is.:worship:

griffin
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:29 PM
Hingis is held to a different standard. It's unfair in many ways

Exactly - I mean, we treat all the other players with respect. We never criticize the other women's losses, or argue that they didn't deserve their wins, or claim they only won x title because z player wasn't there, or question their fitness or commitment to the sport.

Really, it's just so mean the way poor Martina Hingis gets singled out.

:rolleyes:

John.
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:43 PM
I think people have expected more from her since her return, and apart from Rome and Tokyo, she hasn't really delivered. ( I know they were Tier 1's)

Yes, she's had some good wins (MS, ED, NP, VW) but she hasn't put a string of them together. Going into RG last year, she was one of the form players on the tour. Since then, she has been pretty average.

I have never been a huge Martina fan, but I am glad she came back and I want her to do well. She adds something extra to the tour.

I am starting to find it frustrating watching her, as she is losing matches, that she really should be winning.

Therefore, I can understand why she is being criticised.

Volcana
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:44 PM
I dare say that most criticism is from Williams supporters who feel now that Serena has won a slam again that they can open their mouths with crap about Hingis.....YOu may dare to say it, but it's still stupid. Hingis always took a certain amount of heat from Venus fans. Less so from fans of Serena. But the ridiculoous level of Hingis-criticism started after her retirement, and basially never let up.

And the nastiest of it was from former Hingis fans, who act like she somehow betrayed them, abandonning the tour to a) the power players, b) the Williams sisters, or c) both. Add in the fact thatr Henin's success negates the 'size' card, and you have a recipe for mounds of uncalled for criticism.

And if you've been around for a few years, you know my fave is Venus, with nobody a close second. Hingis is the LAST player I'd have defended before she retired. But the hate thrown her way is just too over the top to ignore.

But don't lay that on Williams fans. Some of both Venus and Serena's best matches were against Hingis. Noble opposition deserves respect.

lecciones
Mar 5th, 2007, 02:58 PM
Well as a BIG Hingis fan, when she retired I felt sad, but that was it, I never felt angry or hated her for it, she was tired of playing in the state she was in, she needed a break. Quite long though, only thing I regret was it was kinda long. And with everybody saying we expected more from Hingis or Hingis should've been winning against these players or in these matches, How more do you think us Hingis fans feel when these happen. But we offer our two cent advise but we don't criticize her to the point of she should retire or she's the worst top ten in the history of the WTA or she choked to the biggest choker in the tour kinda criticize. Anyway, I guess it really comes with the territory, but does it really have to and do we always have to?

Chrissie-fan
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:31 PM
Add in the fact that Henin's success negates the 'size' card
It doesn't. Roy Jones (Justine if you will) who used to be the middleweight champ of the world won a title as a heavyweight, but I doubt that any middleweight would argue that the difference in size and physical strenght doesn't matter if they would fight bigger men. If size doesn't matter than why are there so many big girls at the top these days when the average size of women is smaller? Much of todays tennis is based on power so of course it's an advantage to be big and strong.

Kunal
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:36 PM
im not one of the people who criticizes her....

perhaps one reason can be the fact that people who knew what she was capable of before her premature retirement might be frustrated at not seeing hingis get to the very top......they have to realize that it is much much harder for someone like hingis to be so dominant as she was before.....if she really wants to be in the top 4 consistently...then she will have to train more intensely and get stronger....

Diesel
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Exactly - I mean, we treat all the other players with respect. We never criticize the other women's losses, or argue that they didn't deserve their wins, or claim they only won x title because z player wasn't there, or question their fitness or commitment to the sport.

Really, it's just so mean the way poor Martina Hingis gets singled out.

:rolleyes:

:worship:

Williams Rulez
Mar 5th, 2007, 03:54 PM
If you are happy with Martina's performance, then fair enough, you may think these critisms are unwarranted..

But for most people, I think they would expect more from her than losing to a Kim who is making 60 UE, or to Daniela when she is up 6-1 4-1.. simply because of what she has achieved in the past

-GenEz.Williams
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:08 PM
because shes popular and good period..

Vlover
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:24 PM
Have you ever thought that she may get stick from Williams fans because Hingis fans dish out a lot of shit too? Imagine that.

Because of heylookimgay.

Specimen "A". This attention whore is like a rabid mongrel bitch running around in circles and barking aimlessly at it's shadow in every Williams thread.:smash:

LUIS9
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:42 PM
I might wind-up a few of her fans here from time to time - but I enjoy watching Martina. I hear a lot about the Hingis of old, can someone tell me what is missing from comeback Hingis's game compared to Hingis in her no. 1 pomp. Is it simply the power which is the difference - are these girls on tour just returning a lot heavier, more consistently now?

For starters, the cosistency she once possessed is no longer there. I mean the errors she makes sometimes even from the middle of the court are unacceptable, her forehand too is so inconsistent; she struggles keeping length on that side which has always been her weaker wing. She's also a lot more tentative with her trademark backhand.

Her concentration lapses at times just seem absurd, she's just struggling with putting away matches she should win, of those three set losses she's had she should have won at least more than half of them. Especially her first loss to Penetta even then she was still leading in the end and had the opportunit to win that one match. Then her match against Venus in warsaw and the quarterfinal in Berlin versus Mauresmo where she was finally finding her form on clay.

She still has stamina and fitness issues to completely resolve. It's too many factors at the moment that are impeding her from excelling the way she should.

Lets not even get into her serving issues. :rolleyes:

Craigy
Mar 5th, 2007, 04:54 PM
Easy:
It's WTAworld.
If you don't like it...then leave ;)

CORIA01
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:18 PM
martina deserves her rankings. Facts are here she is n2 at the YEC and has alrady won a tier I!!!

T-GIRL87
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:27 PM
Why do these threads end up becoming this fanbase vs. another fansbase. Rather than having an intellectual discussion about Martina's game, these discussions ususually have a way of morphing into hate threads. Martina, Serena, Venus, Justine, are players whom with the exception of Venus and Serena, while they may not love each other they have an infinite amount of respect for one another, this is why they play each other tough and have formed great rivarilies over the last years. I'm sure they're not fighting over who is the "greater" player or who has they "better" game. In my opinion they make each other better players because they push one another to the limit.

El Nino
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:33 PM
The problem with Hingis is that she's back, and we're just hearing when she's loosing a match, that's the point. Some medias love to point some defeats of some controversial people who created some nervious discussions about their behaviour. Hingis is a good example. But now she has changed and that's good. She's mature and I have more pleasure to see her playing.

That's the problem with medias : some players are well-treated like Sharapova, Henin, other Russians, and we don't care when they lose. And when they have some non-tennistic problems, it's not published in a bad way. We support them.
That's not the case for Hingis, and sooner for the Williams Sisters.

The influence of the medias is quite clear in our world. And it's clear that someone like Hingis is not as well and honestly treated by the medias as others players of the TOP10.

LoveFifteen
Mar 5th, 2007, 05:51 PM
Martina Hingis hasn't got the physique of a Sharapova, Mauresmo, the Williams sisters, Clijsters or any of the other top players (with the possible exception of Henin who has to work so hard to keep up with the big girls that it almost endangers her health). And being big and strong is now almost mandatory to be a success in tennis. It's a bit absurd to compare maybe, but in other sports that require a lot of physical strenght such as weightlifting, judo or boxing, Hingis would be competing in a different weight division than those other girls. Hingis is almost like a welterweight competing in the heavyweight division, so to speak. The fact that the comparitively frail Hingis, despite her clear physical disadvantages is able to hold her own in the age of the big and strong power players at all is something worthy of praise IMO. It's in fact remarkable and it proves what a terrific talent she is.:worship:

You are just ... :hearts: :inlove: :worship: