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TSequoia01
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:12 PM
Everyone has enjoyed the fierce Jen and Serena rivalry which lil sis leads 10/7. But amazingly enough Jen has yet to defeat Venus (4-0). Wonder why this is? What is it about Venus that gives Jen such a hard time? I say it simply is a matter of styles. Jen seems to more easily run down Serena's shots. Does Venus hit the ball flatter? Or is it harder to get a ball by Vee?

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:16 PM
Its a mental thing. Its not a competetive thing, although im a fan of both, Its a matter of Venus playing aggresive at the right times and jennifer being too defensive. Thats what it came down too. Venus does hit flat your right. Venus didnt have the same problems with Jen as serena did, for some reason she liked the more steady play of Capriati.

Maybe im wrong but to me it was just the lack of aggresion, plus Venus served HUGE when she needed to, so props for her. Jennifer had her oppertunities, she just didnt take em' Vee did. Look at 2001 they played 4 times that year, capriati was under pressure the whole time esp against Venus whom she had to beat to be the "real #1" thats pressure. Besides that she lost a close match in the finals at the NASDAQ Open and she had 8 match points, she played to not lose, not to win. That fucked her over.:help: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey: Both are awsome fighters and great woman in the end...:wavey:

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:22 PM
Everyone has enjoyed the fierce Jen and Serena rivalry which lil sis leads 10/7. But amazingly enough Jen has yet to defeat Venus (4-0). Wonder why this is? What is it about Venus that gives Jen such a hard time? I say it simply is a matter of styles. Jen seems to more easily run down Serena's shots. Does Venus hit the ball flatter? Or is it harder to get a ball by Vee?
They played too little, and plus they played 2 times on Venus´s dominating period.
Capriati should have won one of those, but she choked and Venus does not need too much from her oponnent to get back in a match, she is always there fighting.

:inlove:
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:25 PM
Well she's had her fair share of chances.
8 to be exact.

disco_rage
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:26 PM
Amazing really that Venus and Jen only played four times!!!!

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:27 PM
Well she's had her fair share of chances.
8 to be exact.

that was an awful match, and it was full of crap. She had 8 match points where she either dumped it into the net or Vee Outhit her because jen was feeding her short balls...it wasnt pretty.

They never had any good matches, they were all pretty average if not just forgettable. (other than the staredown):wavey:

:inlove:
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:33 PM
The 3rd set was good, exciting quality I thought. The first 2 sets were painfully crap.

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:35 PM
The 3rd set was good, exciting quality I thought. The first 2 sets were painfully crap.

meh, it didnt make upfor anything. U wanna see a good match?

Go watch any serena jennifer match, now THATS QUALITY!~
(well maybe not, but its not FORGETTABLE)

especially there LAST meeting:devil: hehehehe that one was my favorite!:devil: I was thouroughly entertained!:lol: :tape: :lick:

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:37 PM
that was an awful match, and it was full of crap. She had 8 match points where she either dumped it into the net or Vee Outhit her because jen was feeding her short balls...it wasnt pretty.

They never had any good matches, they were all pretty average if not just forgettable. (other than the staredown):wavey:

That's because Venus didn't play. :cool:

If Jennifer/Serena's match quality was low, their was still
the fire there and niether was shy in expressing it which
made their match-up's IMO all the more exciting.

Venus during their match-up's didn't emote until after
the completion of the match. I always felt like their
match-up was Ashe/Connors-esque Wimbledon. Venus
calm and steady like Ashe & Jennifer fiery and emotive
like Connors. Jennifer IMO feeds off the opponents emotive
intensity.

:inlove:
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:37 PM
Yeah their last meeting was very dramatic. :)
Especially when Jen got booed at the end.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:39 PM
That's because Venus didn't play. :cool:

If Jennifer/Serena's match quality was low, their was still
the fire there and niether was shy in expressing it which
made their match-up's IMO all the more exciting.

Venus during their match-up's didn't emote until after
the completion of the match. I always felt like their
match-up was Ashe/Connors-esque Wimbledon. Venus
calm and steady like Ashe & Jennifer fiery and emotive
like Connors. Jennifer IMO feeds off the opponents emotive
intensity.

Also kind of like McEnroe/Borg....with Jen being McEnroe :tape:

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:41 PM
Yeah their last meeting was very dramatic. :)
Especially when Jen got booed at the end.

yes well, that was all the williams fans bitter about losing. typical stuff really.:o Jennifer told them to shut there pie holes and they did....shes such a bitch!:hearts: :hearts: I MISS HER!

...but she won, and rightly so!:lol: :tape: :lick: :help:

StarsAreBlind
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:45 PM
Jen is a star. Serena is a star. They are both bitches. But i love 'em more for it!

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:45 PM
Also kind of like McEnroe/Borg....with Jen being McEnroe :tape:

yes well, look what happened to borg...the poor guy has stooped to the level of actually selling his wimbledon titles...i mean really, thats just pathetic (unless it was boris becker...i always forget these things!)

Id rather be McEnroe really, he had all the fun, plus he made more money!:wavey: :tape: :lol:

V's a star
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:49 PM
I think its just to hard 4 Jen to put balls away against venus. I watched the 01 USO semi and in the 1st set which was 6-4 Jenn only hit 2 winners. Venus covered to much court and had more power

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:52 PM
I think its just to hard 4 Jen to put balls away against venus. I watched the 01 USO semi and in the 1st set which was 6-4 Jenn only hit 2 winners. Venus covered to much court and had more power

i agree completely, Vee just got everything back.:wavey:

One Slam Wonder
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:05 PM
Hopefully Jen will come back soon and get a win over Venus! I too think that it was because Jen had trouble putting the ball away against venus, in that whole match at the 2001 U.S Open, she hit all of four winners.

Btw, a similar question could be asked of why Lindsay has such difficulty against Serena, and Jen doesn't.

TSequoia01
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:09 PM
Hopefully Jen will come back soon and get a win over Venus! I too think that it was because Jen had trouble putting the ball away against venus, in that whole match at the 2001 U.S Open, she hit all of four winners.

Btw, a similar question could be asked of why Lindsay has such difficulty against Serena, and Jen doesn't.

On that question...lindsay had a problem with court coverage, while Jen was one of the best defensive players out there.

:inlove:
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:16 PM
yes well, that was all the williams fans bitter about losing. typical stuff really.:o Jennifer told them to shut there pie holes and they did....shes such a bitch!:hearts: :hearts: I MISS HER!

...but she won, and rightly so!:lol: :tape: :lick: :help:

:spit: They were booing because Jennifer was wrong about Serena winning the game in which she got a call which you probably would say was out. :o And 3 more in the last game, but I won't be lured into going into that. :o :o

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:18 PM
that was an awful match, and it was full of crap. She had 8 match points where she either dumped it into the net or Vee Outhit her because jen was feeding her short balls...it wasnt pretty.

They never had any good matches, they were all pretty average if not just forgettable. (other than the staredown):wavey:The New Haven SF was hardly average.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:21 PM
Everyone has enjoyed the fierce Jen and Serena rivalry which lil sis leads 10/7. But amazingly enough Jen has yet to defeat Venus (4-0). Wonder why this is? What is it about Venus that gives Jen such a hard time? I say it simply is a matter of styles. Jen seems to more easily run down Serena's shots. Does Venus hit the ball flatter? Or is it harder to get a ball by Vee?

It's weird, but whenever Serena plays Jen, she stops taking the ball as early and lets Jen make it a track meet. Believe it or not, I don't think track meet tennis ultimately favors Serena. Serena runs incredibly well, but when she's at her best she's taking the ball early and getting in the first strike. When she backs off that- as she often does with Jen'- she gets lulled into running around and playing Capriati style instead of Serena style.

Venus LOVES a track meet. A running match ALWAYS favors Venus. ALWAYS. It's tougher to get a ball past her than it is Serena. When asked about Venus' game, that's one of the first things you always here Serena mention- how tough it is to get a ball past her.

In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.

Anyway, jmho.

TSequoia01
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:37 PM
It's weird, but whenever Serena plays Jen, she stops taking the ball as early and lets Jen make it a track meet. Believe it or not, I don't think track meet tennis ultimately favors Serena. Serena runs incredibly well, but when she's at her best she's taking the ball early and getting in the first strike. When she backs off that- as she often does with Jen'- she gets lulled into running around and playing Capriati style instead of Serena style.

Venus LOVES a track meet. A running match ALWAYS favors Venus. ALWAYS. It's tougher to get a ball past her than it is Serena. When asked about Venus' game, that's one of the first things you always here Serena mention- how tough it is to get a ball past her.

In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.

Anyway, jmho.

That is the best theory I have heard yet, when you mention Serena's game is wrapped around Vee it really is. Her quick strike capability, ruthless return of second serves, and ability to place powerful balls in each corner. Add to that her serve, it is the primary weapon against big sis.

ico4498
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:42 PM
In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.

Anyway, jmho.

interesting theory, very plausible!

Volcana
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:44 PM
Capriati's relative success against Serena was a matter of patience. Specifically, Serena's lack of it. By her own admission, Capriati depended on getting every ball back, and hitting hard enough to make the next return tough. She didn't hit deep, or near the lines. She kept her errors down, and extended points til her opponent made errors.

Venus would just rally with her, hitting harder than Capriati, and closer to the lines, but not goin for an outright winner til it presented itself.

Serena tried to hit winners early in the rally. And when the ball came back, she'd try to hit another winner. And make a lot of errors doing it, thus losing some matches.

KYLIE
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:50 PM
It's weird, but whenever Serena plays Jen, she stops taking the ball as early and lets Jen make it a track meet. Believe it or not, I don't think track meet tennis ultimately favors Serena. Serena runs incredibly well, but when she's at her best she's taking the ball early and getting in the first strike. When she backs off that- as she often does with Jen'- she gets lulled into running around and playing Capriati style instead of Serena style.

Venus LOVES a track meet. A running match ALWAYS favors Venus. ALWAYS. It's tougher to get a ball past her than it is Serena. When asked about Venus' game, that's one of the first things you always here Serena mention- how tough it is to get a ball past her.

In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.

Anyway, jmho.

loves it, too true, Jen loves a track meet, unless shes not fit, then she tends to spray everything. She cant outhit Vee tho, so Jen has no option but to make it a track meet...unless shes 100% fit whereas shes got a few more weapons.:wavey:

Venus3000
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:51 PM
I see you guys are right on point with this.

Venus matched up better against Jen than Serena did then combine that with the fact Jen played Serena several times when she wasn't at her peak. Jen never played Venus when she wasn't at her peak.

The reason Venus gave Jennifer fits was because of her movement and natural athletic ability which was/is better than even Serena. What Serena had over Venus back then was better tennis technique(especially on serve and forehand) and better tennis tactics, also Serena was hungrier because she hadn't won a slam in a while. I'm not sure if all that still holds true today though.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:52 PM
That is the best theory I have heard yet, when you mention Serena's game is wrapped around Vee it really is. Her quick strike capability, ruthless return of second serves, and ability to place powerful balls in each corner. Add to that her serve, it is the primary weapon against big sis.

Exactly. I think Serena had grown up knowing and believing that Venus is the one to beat. Ultimately, her play against Venus was the easiest way to measure her own progress. She had the luxury of being able to observe from EXTREMELY close up Venus' successes and failures, strengths and weaknesses and learn from them in a much lower pressure environment than Vee, who all eyes were on at the time. Couple all this with that unteachable mental strength and self-confidence and you have the perfect recipie for the GREATEST player of her generation. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

venus_rulez
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:54 PM
Capriati's relative success against Serena was a matter of patience. Specifically, Serena's lack of it. By her own admission, Capriati depended on getting every ball back, and hitting hard enough to make the next return tough. She didn't hit deep, or near the lines. She kept her errors down, and extended points til her opponent made errors.

Venus would just rally with her, hitting harder than Capriati, and closer to the lines, but not goin for an outright winner til it presented itself.

Serena tried to hit winners early in the rally. And when the ball came back, she'd try to hit another winner. And make a lot of errors doing it, thus losing some matches.



I was just going to say that part of what gives Jennifer an easier time against Serena is that Serena tends to go for her shots much quicker and faster than Venus does. I think while Serena has more of an aggressive game, Venus is a bit better at playing an all court game (as far as coming to the net and being able to stay in a rally and rally in general. Plus I think Venus is a bit more unpredictable than Serena and I think it throws people off. When Serena is playing badly, it's still impressive because if nothing else her serve is always there so there's a sense of I still need to be in this match. Venus' worse is pretty scratchy, but she's able (especially back then) to out of nowhere up the level of her game. I think that's what bothers Capriati the most about Venus. In the first set of their U.S. Open encounter, Venus hit 15 errors alone just on her forehand to get down 1-4, then suddenly almost out of nowhere she played championship tennis. Capriati was never able to find that extra gear against Venus.

Venus3000
Mar 3rd, 2007, 11:58 PM
Same reason Serena seemed to play better against Lindsay early in their careers. Serena strokes(especially forehand) won't break down as much against Lindsay.

Kart
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:01 AM
It's been such a long time since I saw Capriati play but I think Venus absorbed her power better than anyone.

Plus Capriati never really went for the lines in her games as much as her counterparts - which is why generally she made less mistakes.

spartanchris
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:04 AM
It's weird, but whenever Serena plays Jen, she stops taking the ball as early and lets Jen make it a track meet. Believe it or not, I don't think track meet tennis ultimately favors Serena. Serena runs incredibly well, but when she's at her best she's taking the ball early and getting in the first strike. When she backs off that- as she often does with Jen'- she gets lulled into running around and playing Capriati style instead of Serena style.

Venus LOVES a track meet. A running match ALWAYS favors Venus. ALWAYS. It's tougher to get a ball past her than it is Serena. When asked about Venus' game, that's one of the first things you always here Serena mention- how tough it is to get a ball past her.

In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.

Anyway, jmho.


Great theory, I never thought about that! :D

bmwofoz
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:21 AM
It's weird, but whenever Serena plays Jen, she stops taking the ball as early and lets Jen make it a track meet. Believe it or not, I don't think track meet tennis ultimately favors Serena. Serena runs incredibly well, but when she's at her best she's taking the ball early and getting in the first strike. When she backs off that- as she often does with Jen'- she gets lulled into running around and playing Capriati style instead of Serena style.

Venus LOVES a track meet. A running match ALWAYS favors Venus. ALWAYS. It's tougher to get a ball past her than it is Serena. When asked about Venus' game, that's one of the first things you always here Serena mention- how tough it is to get a ball past her.

In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.

Anyway, jmho.

I agree, Serena and Jennifer are similar in style, Serena tended to make too many errors against Jennifer, Venus had great net coverage and her attacking the net was something which appears to get at Jennifer.

I recall the Wimbledon Semi, when Serena and Jennifer squared off, that was great Tennis

jbone_0307
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:22 AM
Does anybody have that 2001 US Open Semifinal??? That was a freakin beatdown by Venus and then the stare down when she was about to serve was priceless. :lol:

LindsayRulz
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:27 AM
I miss the Jen-Serena rivalry :sad:

and I miss Jen so much :sad:

StarDuvallGrant
Mar 4th, 2007, 12:30 AM
Jen, please come back. I'd love to see more Jennifer/Serena.

vwfan
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:16 AM
In fact- and this is my own little theory- I think that's why SERENA'S GAME evolved as it did. It was designed to beat Vee. That's why Serena tries to end points quickly- play high risk, take it early and go for a winner. A track meet with Vee doesn't favor her- nor does it favor Capriati nor does it favor anyone on the tour.


I agree! I've always thought this. The only way she was going to beat Venus was to play the kind of explosive tennis that she does and she knew that once she was able to beat Venus this way, she would have success with the rest of tour!

Venus used to spank Serena all the time running her around the court until she was completely frustrated, out of position, and forced into an error. I don't know why it took Venus so long to figure out that Serena was not going to let her play that kind of game anymore and she was going for first strike tennis. (She played this kind of tennis successfully against everyone, but Capriati like Venus gets to a lot of would-be winners and returns them often with some interest.)

If Venus was going to reclaim top dog, she needs to get to net and force Serena into difficult passing shots. She'll make some great shots, but Venus at the net is intimidaing and strong!

Stamp Paid
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:18 AM
Capriati's relative success against Serena was a matter of patience. Specifically, Serena's lack of it. By her own admission, Capriati depended on getting every ball back, and hitting hard enough to make the next return tough. She didn't hit deep, or near the lines. She kept her errors down, and extended points til her opponent made errors.

Venus would just rally with her, hitting harder than Capriati, and closer to the lines, but not goin for an outright winner til it presented itself.

Serena tried to hit winners early in the rally. And when the ball came back, she'd try to hit another winner. And make a lot of errors doing it, thus losing some matches.

I agree with this 100%. Venus played Jennifer the way Jennifer should be played, and exposed Jen's movement to her FH side by killing Jen with her backhand DTL. Plus Jen had the kind of game to trouble Serena, plus a fierce competitive spirit and a lot of fight. She really was Serena's ultimate opponent. Glad shes gone. :)

Venus3000
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:46 AM
You are right Venus used to beat Serena by running her around until she made errors but Serena improved her game a lot and it didn't work anymore.

No doubt Venus should have a net edge over Serena but Venus doesn't have to play that way to beat Serena IMO. Remember when everyone was saying she would have to do that to beat Maria and Lindsay at Wimby. Well, I never thought that. When everyone said that they were assuming her ground game wouldn't hold up. She was able to out hit them from the baseline. She could do the same to Serena but she would have to be in great form to do it especially on serve and forehand. Also another thing if her ground game isn't there there is no way she could dominate the net like some have suggested. IMO when and if Serena and Venus play each other again it's going to be about who serve better and whose ground game hold up the best under constant pressure. In 2002 and 2003 no doubt that would have been Serena, but I feel Venus serve and ground game is much better now than back then. But so is Serena's. So that will be interesting. Actually, I can't wait to see Venus and Serena square against all the top players again including each other.


I agree! I've always thought this. The only way she was going to beat Venus was to play the kind of explosive tennis that she does and she knew that once she was able to beat Venus this way, she would have success with the rest of tour!

Venus used to spank Serena all the time running her around the court until she was completely frustrated, out of position, and forced into an error. I don't know why it took Venus so long to figure out that Serena was not going to let her play that kind of game anymore and she was going for first strike tennis. (She played this kind of tennis successfully against everyone, but Capriati like Venus gets to a lot of would-be winners and returns them often with some interest.)

If Venus was going to reclaim top dog, she needs to get to net and force Serena into difficult passing shots. She'll make some great shots, but Venus at the net is intimidaing and strong!

Diesel
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:47 AM
She really was Serena's ultimate opponent.

:worship: So very true.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 4th, 2007, 03:02 AM
Also another thing if her ground game isn't there there is no way she could dominate the net like some have suggested.

I don't know that this is entirely true.

I think Venus' merely needs to hit really good approaches and know when to come in behind them. Her groundstrokes need to be solid, but not utterly dominant to do that.

Venus3000
Mar 4th, 2007, 03:20 AM
True not "utterly dominant" but they have to be oh what's the word, "solid" I would say.

I don't know that this is entirely true.

I think Venus' merely needs to hit really good approaches and know when to come in behind them. Her groundstrokes need to be solid, but not utterly dominant to do that.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 4th, 2007, 03:30 AM
True not "utterly dominant" but they have to be oh what's the word, "solid" I would say.

agreed. They would have to be "solid."

mykarma
Mar 4th, 2007, 03:38 AM
Well she's had her fair share of chances.
8 to be exact.
I love your avatar.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 4th, 2007, 03:50 AM
Part of the reason I think is also mental, Venus gives you nothing during a match. If you turn on the channel in the middle of a Venus match and see her expression before seeing the score, you have no idea if she's losing or winning, always looking so depressed until it's over. With Serena she doesn't hide anything, and I think Jen also played into that knowing when Serena was irritated and upping her own game.

vejh
Mar 4th, 2007, 04:01 AM
Kind of off topic but Venus' problem against Serena and most other players is the break down of her ground game and serve. When those 2 go awol, there is hardly a doubt to the outcome.lol.

Jen was a pretty good player; pretty dramatic player. I do miss her.

Sometimes I think about Serena playing moonballing tennis (according to Venus this was her style of play in her younger years). It is the oddest thing.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 4th, 2007, 04:04 AM
Sometimes I think about Serena playing moonballing tennis (according to Venus this was her style of play in her younger years). It is the oddest thing.

Actually sometimes Serena does to this day moonballs her opponents, and it's actually a very clever tactic that she doesn't get enough credit for.

vejh
Mar 4th, 2007, 04:07 AM
^she does it for a few points, but she relies 99% on powerful flat strokes. I find it hard to believe she used that strategy as a young girl because she was always strong and had good technique. And I guess knowing the Serena we do today, it's kinda funny to imagine her playing 'smashnova-type' tennis.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 4th, 2007, 04:20 AM
^she does it for a few points, but she relies 99% on powerful flat strokes. I find it hard to believe she used that strategy as a young girl because she was always strong and had good technique. And I guess knowing the Serena we do today, it's kinda funny to imagine her playing 'smashnova-type' tennis.

I wouldn't say she hits 99% powerful flat strokes. Yes she does hit a high percentage of power tennis, but Serena does take pace off and roll over the ball especially on the backhand side.

henree
Mar 4th, 2007, 04:22 AM
^she does it for a few points, but she relies 99% on powerful flat strokes. I find it hard to believe she used that strategy as a young girl because she was always strong and had good technique. And I guess knowing the Serena we do today, it's kinda funny to imagine her playing 'smashnova-type' tennis.
I don't consider Serena's groundstrokes flat. Serena has always put a healthy amount of spin on her strokes. Serena does still hits moon balls. Typically to buy her enough time to re-center herself on the court. Serena is very smart. I think Serena uses her guile to beat most of her opponents. It isn't always about power with her.

serenafan08
Mar 4th, 2007, 05:07 AM
Venus is so long and covers so much court - four strides and she can cover sideline to sideline. Her defensive abilities always make her dangerous. She sort of does to Jennifer what Jennifer does to Serena - run down every ball and keep the point going until either her opponent makes a mistake or presents her with a chance to hit a winning shot. Venus has more offense than Jennifer does, so when she gets a chance to go from defense to offense, she would take it. Jennifer couldn't get a ball past Venus, and Venus would just wait for the opportunities to take advantage of what her defense would reward her with.

Serena goes for broke on every shot. It doesn't matter if she's running into the first row of the stands - she'll try to end the point right there. That would get her into trouble with Jennifer because Jennifer didn't mind running balls down. IMO, Jennifer would push more against Serena than against anybody else. How else do you win a three-set match (referring to their match @ the US Open) with only 12 winners??? She didn't go for hardly anything; she just waited for Serena to make a mistake - and Serena would take the bait everytime. She knew that she couldn't hit with Serena; that's why she lost 8 straight times against her. It's strange that Serena couldn't figure that out. I also think there was some jealousy from both players toward the other. The player that won their match would either make the semis, final or win the tournament they were playing. Both players could have won a lot more Slams and big tournaments if they hadn't had to play each other. Just think if Jennifer would have won any of those 8 matches - or if Serena would have beaten Jennifer in '04 - both of them could have a few more titles under their belt. There was more on the line when they would play, and you could sense it.

Mr. Magassi
Mar 4th, 2007, 05:16 AM
Boy I sure miss those days... wish Venus and Jenn had more matches... of course, i also miss the Serena/Jenn matches. Nobody knew how to return Serena's serve better than Jenn (Jenn just couldn't hold her own ;)

venus_rulez
Mar 4th, 2007, 05:43 AM
Part of the reason I think is also mental, Venus gives you nothing during a match. If you turn on the channel in the middle of a Venus match and see her expression before seeing the score, you have no idea if she's losing or winning, always looking so depressed until it's over. With Serena she doesn't hide anything, and I think Jen also played into that knowing when Serena was irritated and upping her own game.



Didn't Justine say it was harder for her to play Venus than Serena for that very reason?

starin
Mar 4th, 2007, 06:17 AM
Serena moonballing :tape: lol... even as a kid I can't imagine her moonballing.
To whoever said Serena hits mostly flat shots. Maybe she did earlier in her career but during the AO she was defintely hitting with a lot more topspin. At least that's what it looked like to me. She'll flatten it out from time to to time but mostly she hits with spin. Now, Venus, she still hits the ball pretty flat, which was pretty clear in her match against Peer. I kinda wish Venus would add more topspin, and play safer seeing as she can play serious Defense. But, its not her game. She is all agression, and going for her shots.

Also, I love the slices, or moonballs Serena hits to give herself more time and get back in position. I always find it wierd that Venus, with her great movement never seems to do that. She always tries to take a healthy swing at every shot, and when she is out of position she doesn't do much with it. I guess she's been so used to being able to track everything down she hasn't bothered to practice those deep slice returns or moonballs that Serena uses.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 4th, 2007, 06:23 AM
Serena throws in moon balls every now and then. And wisely so. It's a widely accepted tactic to moon ball a moon baller. When used effectively, it's a great way to push someone off the base line. Schnyder does it really well.

ghost world
Mar 4th, 2007, 07:12 AM
Am I the only one who finds the Serena/Capriati Wimbledon 2004 match hilarious? I just about lose it when serena dives at match point.