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View Full Version : Steffi vs. Venus 99' Hannover Highlights


Paneru
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5Z7s8wogs

Looks like a very entertaining match. :cool:

Mina Vagante
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:11 PM
that dress on venus :eek:

:inlove:
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:16 PM
I have this match on DVD. :hearts: It's a great match. :D

Tennisaddict
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:23 PM
Thanks

Sylwiiia
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:30 PM
Thank you :) I think I haven't see it before.

Does anyone know if there are any torrents with Venus matches?

MisterMan
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:32 PM
Damn Venus was good.
She just can't do that stuff anymore.

What a bizarre stiff service motion Graf had for such a great player.

orfeus
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww5Z7s8wogs

Looks like a very entertaining match. :cool:

yeah no wonder Steffi's the greatest ever...my observations:
- I've noticed just one UE by her in the whole clip...
- her precision and placement are just unbelievable...
- her court coverage is worse than that of Venus but Steffi was 30 back then...

darrinbaker00
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:41 PM
That's how Venus should be playing all the time..... ;)

RenaSlam.
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:47 PM
Two of the all-time greats :worship:

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:52 PM
That's how Venus should be playing all the time..... ;)

No doubt.

She was playing very smart, too. Adhering to the "book" on Steffi, attacking and approaching off of Steffi's backhand.

Volcana
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:54 PM
Damn Venus was good.
She just can't do that stuff anymore.I beg to differ. Ididn't see anything in that match I didn't see at Wimbledon in 2005. Can she still do it Now? Ask people who saw the Memphis final, which I did not.

NOTE: Venus was volleying pretty effectively against possibly THE best baseline player in history. (Ms. Evert, calm down. I said possibly.) In 1999. Yet somehow, there have been people her whole career who claim Venus has no or a poor net game. Hmmmm....

Apoleb
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:55 PM
Oh god I hated that match, because Steffi lost. :sad: As good as her serve is, it was her Achilles heel in that match.

Shimizu Amon
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:01 PM
Steffi lost that match :sad:

starin
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:05 PM
That's how Venus should be playing all the time..... ;)

its a highlights video so i'm sure we missed hte 30 UE she hit. Venus was looking good when she played Shahar. Reminded me of the Venus in this video. As long as Venus 2006 doesn't come back i'm happy.

volta
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:06 PM
vee was fast as hell :hearts: :hearts:

Mightymirza
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:09 PM
steffi was such a wizard on court..:worship: vee kept her nerve tho..

V-fan
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:16 PM
It's great to see how fearless Venus was playing back then..........

alfonsojose
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:23 PM
Steffi's backhand :help:

LUIS9
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:24 PM
vee was fast as hell :hearts: :hearts:

Why are we using the past tense? There's no need to insist on using past tense when Venus' career is very much on a present tense. The girl is still fast and very much a top tennis player.

Awesomeness, I unfortunately can't watch this at work, the network controller does not allow us to use youtube. :tape: :o

sweetpeas
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:36 PM
The girl is still fast and very much a top tennis player.

Thanks LUIS 9. The new tape on you tube M. game 2007,show Queen V.is add new stuff to her game?Second serve? Venus will rock this year .Just hope Venus and Serena stay,healthy?

kiwifan
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:54 PM
:angel: I love in the last minute of the highlights when Venus hits a great shot and her whole bodylanguage is "ready to celebrate" but she throws her arms down to her sides and gives the "calm down" signal you see from Serena all the time. :angel:

That was one lucky crowd. :cool:

spencercarlos
Mar 2nd, 2007, 07:59 PM
I beg to differ. Ididn't see anything in that match I didn't see at Wimbledon in 2005. Can she still do it Now? Ask people who saw the Memphis final, which I did not.

NOTE: Venus was volleying pretty effectively against possibly THE best baseline player in history. (Ms. Evert, calm down. I said possibly.) In 1999. Yet somehow, there have been people her whole career who claim Venus has no or a poor net game. Hmmmm....
Sorry but the best at it was Monica Seles.

Graf was VULNERABLE when attacked at the net off the backhand side. Have seen many matches (1990-1992) from Graf/Sabatini and that was indeed the strategy to win point after point.
The thing was that Graf great movement enabled her to escape from her backhand to hit forehands, but when forced to produce a great shot with her backhand her percentages were minimal.

spencercarlos
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:00 PM
Why are we using the past tense? There's no need to insist on using past tense when Venus' career is very much on a present tense. The girl is still fast and very much a top tennis player.

Awesomeness, I unfortunately can't watch this at work, the network controller does not allow us to use youtube. :tape: :o
Network Policies :p ;)

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:04 PM
The girl is still fast...

I would even say FASTER than before. That's one great thing about speed. It doesn't just go away because you're no longer 20. With good training, her speed will be there at least until she's 30, 31.

volta
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:07 PM
Why are we using the past tense? There's no need to insist on using past tense when Venus' career is very much on a present tense. The girl is still fast and very much a top tennis player.

Awesomeness, I unfortunately can't watch this at work, the network controller does not allow us to use youtube. :tape: :o

cuz that match is past :o i was not saying that she was not fast now was just making a observation about her speed on that match ;)

serenafan08
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:11 PM
Great stuff from both players. Venus didn't even think on her forehand - she just hit it. If she would do that now, her forehand wouldn't be such a liability. And she needs to attack the net now like she was then!!! I love her volleys and technique; she is so smart when she gets to the net. And Steffi's forehand is/was/will be one of the best in the game.

MistyGrey
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:12 PM
Steffi's backhand! :hearts:

It was Steffi's serve that deserted her in this match. I remember the commentators kept mentioning how frustrated Steffi must've felt because she wasnt as fast as her pre-knee surgery self against a young powerful atheletic opponent like Venus, who was playing great tennis.

new-york
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:20 PM
Sorry but the best at it was Monica Seles.

Graf was VULNERABLE when attacked at the net off the backhand side. Have seen many matches (1990-1992) from Graf/Sabatini and that was indeed the strategy to win point after point.
The thing was that Graf great movement enabled her to escape from her backhand to hit forehands, but when forced to produce a great shot with her backhand her percentages were minimal.

who said it was venus.

MistyGrey
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:21 PM
Thanks for the highlights.
Great points and I have to say , Steffi was not overpowered at all. Looking at the points, Steffi's forehand is hit just as hard as Venus' groundies, and Steffi was still quite quick even at 30. Off topic, and I really dont wanna start an argument, but contrary to what most younger fans believe, I think a peak Steffi would've done just fine against today's players.

calico_101
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:28 PM
Kimiko Date vs Steffi at Wimbledon was on youtube last night but is gone now............but at least I got to see Venus and Steffi in Hanover. Steffi just had one of those games, apart from her forehand, each individual stroke is almost average, but when you take the sum of it's parts, that forehand, fabulous movement and an intense will to win you end up with one of the greatest of all time. The WTA has never been the same since if you ask me....

Infiniti2001
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:45 PM
Damn Venus was good.
She just can't do that stuff anymore.

What a bizarre stiff service motion Graf had for such a great player.

I've seen this match, and let me tell you-- the Venus who played Shahar in Memphis played better than Miss Beads herself :lol:

Venus3000
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:21 PM
Do anybody have video of Graf vs Venus at 1999 Miami SF and Graf vs Venus at 1999 Wimby QF?

The Dawntreader
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:31 PM
Venus just the most natural athlete in the women's game today. Graf and Venus the best tennis athletes i've ever seen:worship:

FrenchY52
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:37 PM
Steffi's forehand :hearts:

trufanjay
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:39 PM
Venus was and still is such a great athlete. I have Venus vs. Graf at Lipton. That is a great match also.

RJWCapriati
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:40 PM
:)

fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:44 PM
Great stuff from both players. Venus didn't even think on her forehand - she just hit it. If she would do that now, her forehand wouldn't be such a liability. And she needs to attack the net now like she was then!!! I love her volleys and technique; she is so smart when she gets to the net. And Steffi's forehand is/was/will be one of the best in the game.

yah Steffi was workin Venus' forehand a bit there but she seemed very solid on it!!

spencercarlos
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:50 PM
I've seen this match, and let me tell you-- the Venus who played Shahar in Memphis played better than Miss Beads herself :lol:
I´ve seen both matches and let me tell you-- the Steffi who played Venus in Hannover 99 played better than Miss Peer of Memphis 2007

trufanjay
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:02 PM
Look at the forehand Venus hit at 6:28 in the video. How in the world did she get that back? That's Venus' athleticism at it's best.

Infiniti2001
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:07 PM
I´ve seen both matches and let me tell you-- the Steffi who played Venus in Hannover 99 played better than Miss Peer of Memphis 2007

Say Venus and they come crawling from under their rocks :rolleyes: Meanwhile, didn't that same steffi win a slam later that year? :shrug:

spencercarlos
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:32 PM
Say Venus and they come crawling from under their rocks :rolleyes: Meanwhile, didn't that same steffi win a slam later that year? :shrug:
Should be maybe because this thread has Venus on its title ?:smash:

Meanwhile, didn't that same steffi win a slam later that year? :shrug:
She did but also kicked that ass at Wimbledon :)

spencercarlos
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:42 PM
Meanwhile, didn't that same steffi win a slam later that year? :shrug:
Ah probably you did not understood my post let me explain.
Steffi 1999 > Peer 2007
Steffi 1988/89/1992 -1996 :worship: > Venus of any year

:kiss:
:wavey:

trufanjay
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:45 PM
Ah probably you did not understood my post let me explain.
Steffi 1999 > Peer 2007
Steffi 1988/89/1992 -1996 :worship: > Venus of any year

:kiss:
:wavey:
:tape:

I'm sure you know I don't agree with that. :lol:

starin
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:53 PM
Ah probably you did not understood my post let me explain.
Steffi 1999 > Peer 2007
Steffi 1988/89/1992 -1996 :worship: > Venus of any year

:kiss:
:wavey:

Venus against Peer 2007 > Venus against Steffi
Obviously Steffi is better than Peer but this is only an observation of Venus' level. Which usually is her second serve and her UE count.
Steffi > Venus ....? Of course I'm going to say Venus. But can never really know. Both played in different games with completely different players with the only overlap happening when Steffi was old and about to retire and Venus young, unproven and still erratic. Steffi's forehand though would still be one the best amongst today's players. Actually is there any player today who has a better forehand than Steffi?

Paneru
Mar 2nd, 2007, 11:08 PM
Say Venus and they come crawling from under their rocks :rolleyes:

Did you really expect anything different?
Especially from him! ;)

This is a wet dream thread for him.
Slighting Venus and fawning over
Steffi all in one! :lick: :drool:

Tennisation
Mar 2nd, 2007, 11:16 PM
I want Steffi's forehand and Vee's backhand....what a great combo that would be:hearts:

Chance
Mar 3rd, 2007, 02:39 AM
thanks for the clip :)

Any chance anyone can upload the entire match??

.Andrew.
Mar 3rd, 2007, 02:54 AM
Thanks, Paneru.

I saw it and looked to be high-quality. Well done, Venus! :yeah:

Btw, that outfit :eek:

Reuchlin
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:17 AM
Clearly Venus is a better player NOW. Those were the HIGHLIGHTS

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:28 AM
Clearly Venus is a better player NOW. Those were the HIGHLIGHTS

So player who stays on the baseline depending on a forehand that comes and goes, is a better than a Venus in this video who knows she has some issues on that side and is moving in and using her superior net game to make Graf's life a living hell?
Venus rarely comes to net at a neutral point in a rally these days.
She's probably the only player that can sneak in and get away with winning a majority of points doing that.

Polikarpov
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:34 AM
yeah no wonder Steffi's the greatest ever...my observations:
- I've noticed just one UE by her in the whole clip...
- her precision and placement are just unbelievable...
- her court coverage is worse than that of Venus but Steffi was 30 back then...

Well it's a the match's highlight. Naturally, they won't show points with unforced errors. :)

I like Steffi's backhand!

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:43 AM
So player who stays on the baseline depending on a forehand that comes and goes, is a better than a Venus in this video who knows she has some issues on that side and is moving in and using her superior net game to make Graf's life a living hell?

Venus has always stayed primarily on the baseline
with her forehand coming and going.

The difference's today are that she was more
aggressive then and is a more saavy player now.

The aggressiveness then had her going all out in
all aspects of her game, all or nothing. It won
her titles and lost her titles.

The saavy now has her playing with more of a
game plan. And their is a plan "b" when her "a"
game is off. The saavy has won her matches
and lost her matches when not backed up by
the aggression.

What I saw in the Memphis Final and tournament on the whole
was a the best of both! She was aggressive, but had the saavy to
play wisely and control and temper the aggression based on the
situation. If she can continue in this type of play, it'll be the best
Venus by far!

Venus did talk about the aggression during Memphis
and the issue is, she isn't always as aggressive in every
match as she knows she should be. The best thing is that
she is aware of it and acted on it in the final.

Richard went from ripping her(which I heard from tripp
that was suppossed to be of the record, but the reporter
ran it in the article anyway) to praising her and saying
she'll be winning more Slams.

In Memphis, best serving in years, getting that 2nd serve
stronger, getting to net, and controlled aggression.

So, this current Venus is the best of both and she simply
has to stay healthy and keep this type of play consistently.
We'll see if she does. Either way, sure will be exciting to watch! :cool:

JMO. ;)

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:46 AM
Venus has always stayed primarily on the baseline
with her forehand coming and going.

The difference's today are that she was more
aggressive then and is a more savy player now.

The agressiveness then had her going all out in
all aspects of her game, all or nothing. It won
her titles and lost her titles.

The savy now has her playing with more of a
game plan. And their is a plan "b" when her "a"
game is off. The savy has won her matches
and lost her matches when not backed up by
the aggression.

What I saw in the Memphis Final was a the best
of both! She was agressive, but had the savy to
control and temper the aggression based on the
situation. If she can continue in this type of play,
it'll be the best Venus by far!

Venus did talk about the aggression during Memphis
and the issue is, she isn't always as aggressive in every
match as she knows she should be. The best thing is that
she is aware of it and acted on it in the final.

Richard went from ripping her(which I heard from tripp
that was suppossed to be of the record, but the reporter
ran it in the article anyway) to praising her and saying
she'll be winning more Slams.

So, this current Venus is the best of both and she simply
has to stay healthy and keep this type of play consistently.
We'll see if she does. Either way, sure will be exciting to watch! :cool:

JMO. ;)
So Venus has a plan B? :) great to know

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:48 AM
So Venus has a plan B? :) great to know

Is, isn't it. :)

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:52 AM
Venus has always stayed primarily on the baseline
with her forehand coming and going.

The difference's today are that she was more
aggressive then and is a more savy player now.

The aggressiveness then had her going all out in
all aspects of her game, all or nothing. It won
her titles and lost her titles.

The savy now has her playing with more of a
game plan. And their is a plan "b" when her "a"
game is off. The savy has won her matches
and lost her matches when not backed up by
the aggression.

What I saw in the Memphis Final and tournament on the whole
was a the best of both! She was agressive, but had the savy to
play wisely and control and temper the aggression based on the
situation. If she can continue in this type of play, it'll be the best
Venus by far!

Venus did talk about the aggression during Memphis
and the issue is, she isn't always as aggressive in every
match as she knows she should be. The best thing is that
she is aware of it and acted on it in the final.

Richard went from ripping her(which I heard from tripp
that was suppossed to be of the record, but the reporter
ran it in the article anyway) to praising her and saying
she'll be winning more Slams.

In Memphis, best serving in years, getting that 2nd serve
stronger, getting to net, and controlled aggression.

So, this current Venus is the best of both and she simply
has to stay healthy and keep this type of play consistently.
We'll see if she does. Either way, sure will be exciting to watch! :cool:

JMO. ;)

OK but I still feel that going away from coming to net on neutral points in a rally is a saavy play that Venus should still use in her game from time to time.
Noone really expects it and it's hard to do much to beat her there.
She's definately in the opponent's head when she does that. They don't know when she's going to come in.

JMO.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 3rd, 2007, 03:56 AM
So player who stays on the baseline depending on a forehand that comes and goes, is a better than a Venus in this video who knows she has some issues on that side and is moving in and using her superior net game to make Graf's life a living hell?

Actually, that was one of the best ways (:lol: if there was a "best" way) to play Steffi- attack/approach the backhand side. Force Steffi to come over the top of a backhand, something she didn't like doing. It's a good sound strategy. Why stay back on the baseline and let a more experienced, cleaner playing Graf gain the upper hand. Attack- shorten the point. Against other players, Vee stayed back quite a bit.

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:01 AM
Actually, that was one of the best ways (:lol: if there was a "best" way) to play Steffi- attack/approach the backhand side. Force Steffi to come over the top of a backhand, something she didn't like doing. It's a good sound strategy. Why stay back on the baseline and let a more experienced, cleaner playing Graf gain the upper hand. Attack- shorten the point. Against other players, Vee stayed back quite a bit.

Yeah I know that.
Nine out of ten times when she comes over the top on the backhand, she's hitting it down the line.
Venus read it easily on one of the volleys on the video.
I think in many cases we're giving a lot of players too much credit for their passes.
Other than Mauresmo's and Justine's backhand, daring most players to make a pass will have them dunking the ball into the net.

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:02 AM
OK but I still feel that going away from coming to net on neutral points in a rally is a saavy play that Venus should still use in her game from time to time.
Noone really expects it and it's hard to do much to beat her there.
She's definately in the opponent's head when she does that. They don't know when she's going to come in.

JMO.

In quite a few matches last year she came in
a little too much and lost points, but those were mostly
because she was coming in behind weak approach shots.

I do catch your drift and am with you on that.
It would drive her opponents crazy.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:12 AM
I think in many cases we're giving a lot of players too much credit for their passes.
Other than Mauresmo's and Justine's backhand, daring most players to make a pass will have them dunking the ball into the net.

Agreed, provided it's a decent approach.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:14 AM
So Venus has a plan B? :) great to know

I think she has even a plan C, which most of the other power players (ie Vaidisova, Sharapova) do not have.

Polikarpov
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:17 AM
I think she has even a plan C, which most of the other power players (ie Vaidisova, Sharapova) do not have.

What is it?

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:28 AM
What is it?

Yea. I'm wondering about that too.
What's plan C?
Actually I don't know if I've ever seen plan B.
What's plan B?

Apoorv
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:34 AM
Yea. I'm wondering about that too.
What's plan C?
Actually I don't know if I've ever seen plan B.
What's plan B?

Retiring:tape:

Apoorv
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:36 AM
sorry about above post. just couldnt help it :p

good match by both players.

Jakeev
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:01 AM
That was a tremendous match. Venus was not quite close to her best yet she outhit and outran Steffi that entire match.

Probably won of Vee's most satisfying non Grand Slam wins.

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:04 AM
Yea. I'm wondering about that too.
What's plan C?
Actually I don't know if I've ever seen plan B.
What's plan B?

Um, if you can't see it, well... :cool:

Venus back then is Sharapova today in many aspects
when playing such crafty players as a Mauresmo,
Henin, Hingis, ect....

Venus was all one speed, hit
everything and hit it hard!

What gave her and gives Maria trouble,
made to generate own pace, spins,
slices, off pace balls, ect....

We've seen from Venus IMO since 04' that she isnt'
an all or nothing player nearly like she used to be,
which IMO explains why she has become a better
clay court player having her most success on it in
the past three years.

She's willing to take pace off the serves to get more
1st serves in, coming to net in tight situations, changing
up the pace in rallies, ect....we saw this during her 05' W
run.

mm1147
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:07 AM
i really dont know why venus can't go back to her form in 2002 i hope her win this year motivates her to do well the rest of the year;)

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:09 AM
Yea. I'm wondering about that too.
What's plan C?
Actually I don't know if I've ever seen plan B.
What's plan B?

Oh please,

Venus primary game of course is power, aggressive, attacking. However Venus can also take pace off the ball (especially if she's playing a hard hitter) and defend, look for openings and then attack...which IMO is a plan B. If Venus is tired or the aggressive game from the baseline isn't working...she can move in and finish points quickly at the net (See 2005 Stanford SF vs Schnyder) which can be considered a plan C.

I think people are so numb and used to listening to "analysis" of the game, that they rarely look for themselves and see that these professionals are a lot more talented than they get credit for. I'd love to see someone with a mouth as big as Wannabeknowitall just to play 1 game with Venus and be silenced forever.

No Venus is not Henin, or Hingis who probably have more tricks up their sleeve, but Venus doesn't just hit hard and harder (ala Ivanovic or Vaidisova) like you'd probably want everyone to believe.

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:15 AM
Um, if you can't see it, well... :cool:


We've seen from Venus IMO since 04' that she isnt'
an all or nothing player nearly like she used to be,
which IMO explains why she has become a better
clay court player having her most success on it in
the past three years.



She's won a Tier III title on clay in the last three years.
I saw some of Venus craftiness during her Peer match but that was plan A.
What does she do when that isn't working?

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:25 AM
Oh please,

Venus primary game of course is power, aggressive, attacking. However Venus can also take pace off the ball (especially if she's playing a hard hitter) and defend, look for openings and then attack...which IMO is a plan B. If Venus is tired or the aggressive game from the baseline isn't working...she can move in and finish points quickly at the net (See 2005 Stanford SF vs Schnyder) which can be considered a plan C.

I think people are so numb and used to listening to "analysis" of the game, that they rarely look for themselves and see that these professionals are a lot more talented than they get credit for. I'd love to see someone with a mouth as big as Wannabeknowitall just to play 1 game with Venus and be silenced forever.

No Venus is not Henin, or Hingis who probably have more tricks up their sleeve, but Venus doesn't just hit hard and harder (ala Ivanovic or Vaidisova) like you'd probably want everyone to believe.

I've watched Venus live many times.
I know she's been working on her serve for years when people thought she hasn't.
I rarely if ever see Venus take much pace off the ball and defend.
I've seen Serena do it many times though and quite successfully.

I would consider looking for openings, attacking, and finding a way to shorten shots plan B.
BTW, coming to net and finishing points against a player like Schynder, who when she was in the top ten was the worse net passer of the group, is just a good way to beat Patty generally.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:28 AM
BTW, coming to net and finishing points against a player like Schynder, who when she was in the top ten was the worse net passer of the group, is just a good way to beat Patty generally.

Okay, so obviously you're crediting Venus for changing her game plan since she obviously knew this about Patty. A player who had no plan B wouldn't have done this correct?

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:31 AM
She's won a Tier III title on clay in the last three years.

Hmmmm.....

04' Tier 1 - Charleston
04' Tier 2 - Warsaw
05' Tier 3 - Istanbul

04' 19 match win streak on clay.
Charleston to RG.
Had to default final of Berlin to
Momo due to injury.

06' SF of Rome & QF of Warsaw/RG

Since 03' Outside of 05' Wimbledon
her best results i.e. titles have been
on clay until last week.

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:35 AM
Okay, so obviously you're crediting Venus for changing her game plan since she obviously knew this about Patty. A player who had no plan B wouldn't have done this correct?

Guess being a power player and being known
for your power means one is too inept to
have a plan b. Just can't be done. :cool:

starin
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:42 AM
So Venus has a plan B? :) great to know

lol...cruel. I def. believe Venus has more of a plan B than Sharapova, Vaidisova, & co. But in 2006 it sure didn't look like Venus had a plan B or even a plan A. Venus doesn't have that much variety but she does have an excellent net game which can be considered a plan B. She def. showed that in her SF against Sharapova. (especially on break points).

Serena def. has more variety and more of a plan B than Venus.

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:45 AM
Always and forever V!

Can't win for trying with people
and the best thing is to do you
as lady V always does. :cool:

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:51 AM
Hmmmm.....

04' Tier 1 - Charleston
04' Tier 2 - Warsaw
05' Tier 3 - Istanbul

04' 19 match win streak on clay.
Charleston to RG.
Had to default final of Berlin to
Momo due to injury.

06' SF of Rome & QF of Warsaw/RG

Since 03' Outside of 05' Wimbledon
her best results i.e. titles have been
on clay until last week.

The clay season is already a month into 2007.
Three years should be considered 2005, 2006, 2007.
Players like Ferrero, Garbin, Pennetta, Gaudio, are already working towards success at the French Open.
Even if you include 2004, Venus winning percentage on grass is not that far from her winning percentage on clay.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:54 AM
The clay season is already a month into 2007.
Three years should be considered 2005, 2006, 2007.
Players like Ferrero, Garbin, Pennetta, Gaudio, are already working towards success at the French Open.
Even if you include 2004, Venus winning percentage on grass is still higher than her winning percentage on clay.

However, if you compare Venus to other "one-dimensional" players who excel on hardcourts and grass (excluding Serena)...her clay results are spectacular.

winone23
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:54 AM
The clay season is already a month into 2007.
Three years should be considered 2005, 2006, 2007.
Players like Ferrero, Garbin, Pennetta, Gaudio, are already working towards success at the French Open.
Even if you include 2004, Venus winning percentage on grass is still higher than her winning percentage on clay.

You're wrong that's not how it works :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: three years ago from this year is 2004 not 2005. Stop playing stupid!!!!!!

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:01 AM
You're wrong that's not how it works :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: three years ago from this year is 2004 not 2005. Stop playing stupid!!!!!!

:lol: Amazing how basic math skills allude people :tape:

Paneru
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:02 AM
You're wrong that's not how it works :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: three years ago from this year is 2004 not 2005. Stop playing stupid!!!!!!

It's cool, expected. ;)

:wavey:

winone23
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:03 AM
Hmmmm.....

04' Tier 1 - Charleston
04' Tier 2 - Warsaw
05' Tier 3 - Istanbul

04' 19 match win streak on clay.
Charleston to RG.
Had to default final of Berlin to
Momo due to injury.

06' SF of Rome & QF of Warsaw/RG

Since 03' Outside of 05' Wimbledon
her best results i.e. titles have been
on clay until last week.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:12 AM
However, if you compare Venus to other "one-dimensional" players who excel on hardcourts and grass (excluding Serena)...her clay results are spectacular.

Umm... what one-dimensional player on tour excels on hardcourts and grass?

VenusSerenaBlvd.
Mar 3rd, 2007, 04:52 PM
I loved how Venus plays from "Defense to Offense." It is always amazing to see that from both Venus and Serena. Other players can do it nowadays, but V and S has done are two of the best at it. Along with Sharapova, Henin, and Capriati.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:03 PM
Hmmmm.....

04' Tier 1 - Charleston
04' Tier 2 - Warsaw
05' Tier 3 - Istanbul

04' 19 match win streak on clay.
Charleston to RG.
Had to default final of Berlin to
Momo due to injury.

06' SF of Rome & QF of Warsaw/RG

Since 03' Outside of 05' Wimbledon
her best results i.e. titles have been
on clay until last week.
Which ironically is the saddest thing for her as we know despite those results (that doesn´t include many great wins), she won´t never win the French Open.

Apoleb
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:06 PM
omg @ some of those Graf forehands. :worship: Reminds me what a great shot it is.

Pureracket
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:07 PM
Which ironically is the saddest thing for her as we know despite those results (that doesn´t include many great wins), she won´t never win the French Open.I think you may be mixing her up with your fav, the unbeatable Gaby.

starin
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:09 PM
Umm... what one-dimensional player on tour excels on hardcourts and grass?

Sharapova!! lol. She's won Wimbledon and USO and you would hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think she is one-dimensional.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:12 PM
I think you may be mixing her up with your fav, the unbeatable Gaby.
Gaby may never had to play a none like Clarissa Fernandez in the Semifinals of Roland Garros to get to the final, sadly she always got Evert, Graf or pre-stabbing Monica :(
But by the way.
Gaby on clay > Venus on clay. Period :)

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:14 PM
Which ironically is the saddest thing for her as we know despite those results (that doesn´t include many great wins), she won´t never win the French Open.
Hmm.......we'll see. I never say never when it comes to the Williams sisters. But that's just me. The only two players that can stop her at RG are Serena and Justine. But that's if Venus is playing her best clay court game. If she doesn't win it this year then I may give up my hope of her winning it. But we'll see. :)

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:19 PM
Hmm.......we'll see. I never say never when it comes to the Williams sisters. But that's just me. The only two players that can stop her at RG are Serena and Justine. But that's if Venus is playing her best clay court game. If she doesn't win it this year then I may give up my hope of her winning it. But we'll see. :)
:lol: Sorry that´s riduculous!

Maybe Myskina, Karatancheva, Vaidisova, Zvonareva, names ring you a bell pr two?

Sorry but Venus could be beaten by a lot players on clay.

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:24 PM
Sharapova!! lol. She's won Wimbledon and USO and you would hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think she is one-dimensional.

Other than Kuznetsova, she's the only player to make it to the 4th round of Roland Garros the last three years.
Because she hasn't won a clay court tournament yet does not mean she's one-dimensional.
She's never played anything lower than a Tier I WTA sanctioned tournament on clay.
Any player excluding Justine, could play her clay schedule in the last couple of years and not win a tournament.
I'm sure if she played a Tier III on clay she would have her tournament win but as of now she refuses to do so and instead she decides to reach high.

starin
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:26 PM
:lol: Sorry that´s riduculous!

Maybe Myskina, Karatancheva, Vaidisova, Zvonareva, names ring you a bell pr two?

Sorry but Venus could be beaten by a lot players on clay.


Venus has beaten all the big name clay courters on clay. Lol..namely Henin, Hingis, Schnyder. Although I don't think she's played Nadia on clay. Of those 4 you listed players Venus has the better overall clay court record. Although Myskina won FO, she hasn't done as well in other clay tourneys (even FO) since then. Vaidisova is too young to compare, yet. Venus is a good clay courter and should have won FO by now. She's had such easy draws!!! But Venus is a headcase when it comes to the french.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:31 PM
Venus has beaten all the big name clay courters on clay. Lol..namely Henin, Hingis, Schnyder. Although I don't think she's played Nadia on clay. Of those 4 you listed players Venus has the better overall clay court record. Although Myskina won FO, she hasn't done as well in other clay tourneys (even FO) since then. Vaidisova is too young to compare, yet. Venus is a good clay courter and should have won FO by now. She's had such easy draws!!! But Venus is a headcase when it comes to the french.
Sorry but Venus has beaten Henin on green clay, and has never beaten her on red clay, the surface where Roland Garros is played.

And oh well, Hingis has never won Roland Garros, she is a nice clay court player, but i would name at least 5 players ahead of her on the surface.

Schnyder? :lol: are you kidding me? She has not even reached a semifinal at Roland Garros.

PD. I named those players because they have beaten Venus at Roland Garros, unlike well what the poster said that "only" Henin and Serena could :lol:. And sorry Venus has played many Roland Garros events to say that she "should have" won it by now. She just does not have what it takes to win there.

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:34 PM
Sorry but Venus has beaten Henin on green clay, and has never beaten her on red clay, the surface where Roland Garros is played.

And oh well, Hingis has never won Roland Garros, she is a nice clay court player, but i would name at least 5 players ahead of her on the surface.

Schnyder? :lol: are you kidding me? She has not even reached a semifinal at Roland Garros.

PD. I named those players because they have beaten Venus at Roland Garros, unlike well what the poster said that "only" Henin and Serena could :lol:So name all the better clay courters than Venus on the tour for me.

Apoorv
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:36 PM
I miss Steffi Graf. :sad: the player who made me love tennis.

But I guess life means moving on.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:39 PM
:lol: Sorry that´s riduculous!

Maybe Myskina, Karatancheva, Vaidisova, Zvonareva, names ring you a bell pr two?

Sorry but Venus could be beaten by a lot players on clay.
Notice I said if Venus is playing her best clay court game. Yeah all those players beat her but was Venus playing the way she did when she made the 2002 RG final? I watch Venus enough to know who she lost to, trust me. But an in form Venus is not losing to any of those players on any surface. My point is that if she is playing well she has a great chance to win.

Ridiculous? I don't think so. :p

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:39 PM
So name all the better clay courters than Venus on the tour for me.

Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Mary Pierce, Justine, Serena...

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:41 PM
And sorry Venus has played many Roland Garros events to say that she "should have" won it by now. She just does not have what it takes to win there.

:weirdo:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:42 PM
Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Mary Pierce...

If I'm not mistaken, Venus has better winning % on clay than all of those players you mentioned.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:43 PM
So name all the better clay courters than Venus on the tour for me.
Henin, Serena, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Hingis all of them very capable of beating Venus on clay. And some other new comers that can beat her on clay too lets say Vaidisova, Jankovic, Golovin, Peer.

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:44 PM
Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Mary Pierce...She won RG, but she's never been a threat to Venus on clay. As far as Kim and Sveta go, I'd say they are comparable clay courters to Venus.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:45 PM
Venus can beat Mary, Kuznetsova and Kim on clay imo.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:45 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Venus has better winning % on clay than all of those players you mentioned.
Whatever keep for you the winning % on clay, im just talking about winning Roland Garros. And yet again Venus does a great job of proving me right year after year :) she will never dissapoint me :kiss:

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:46 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Venus has better winning % on clay than all of those players you mentioned.

Lindsay davenport has a higher percentage of wins on clay than Mary Pierce.
Am I going to deduce that Lindsay is then a better playeron clay than Mary Pierce, hellz no.
A slam win and two finals at Roland Garros trumps Lindsay percentage and Venus percentage.
Mary Pierce played her best tennis on the biggest stage, thus she is a better clay court player.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:46 PM
Venus can beat Mary, Kuznetsova and Kim on clay imo.
Venus can beat anybody on clay IMO. But i just don´t think she can do it at Roland Garros.

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:47 PM
Henin, Serena, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Hingis all of them very capable of beating Venus on clay. And some other new comers that can beat her on clay too lets say Vaidisova, Jankovic, Golovin, Peer.What a PUNKASS response spencer. I asked who was BETTER than Venus on clay, not who COULD possibly beat her, regroup and come back with a list of players who are better than Venus on clay.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:48 PM
And yet again Venus does a great job of proving me right year after year :) she will never dissapoint me :kiss:

You're sick :haha:

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:50 PM
What a PUNKASS response spencer. I asked who was BETTER than Venus on clay, not who COULD possibly beat her, regroup and come back with a list of players who are better than Venus on clay.
Ok better than Venus on clay:
Henin, Hingis, Pierce, Clijsters, Myskina among the active players have a better resume on clay than Venus.. Period.
Not far off Kuznetsova.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:51 PM
Ok better than Venus on clay:
Henin, Hingis, Pierce, Clijsters, Myskina among the active players have a better resume on clay than Venus.. Period.
Not far off Kuznetsova.

On CLAY or at ROLAND GARROS? Seems like you're contradicting yourself.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:52 PM
Henin, Serena, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Hingis all of them very capable of beating Venus on clay. And some other new comers that can beat her on clay too lets say Vaidisova, Jankovic, Golovin, Peer.
Venus can beat all of those players on clay besides Serena and maybe Justine. You aren't giving Venus any credit.

Venus has beaten Hingis, Kuznetsova, Vaidisova, and Jankovic on red clay by the way.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:57 PM
Venus can beat all of those players on clay besides Serena and maybe Justine. You aren't giving Venus any credit.

Venus has beaten Hingis, Kuznetsova, Vaidisova, and Jankovic on red clay by the way.
Yeah she has beaten them, so what? does that means she is the second greatest clay court player of the last three years and that she is near of a Roland Garros title? :lol:

And BTW i would put Justine and then Serena.. Period.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:58 PM
Venus can beat anybody on clay IMO. But i just don´t think she can do it at Roland Garros.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All of this for that!!! You wait until now to say Venus can beat them on clay, unless I missed something. Regardless of what you think the possibility is still there because of the fact that Venus can beat anyone on clay. If she wants it bad enough she'll do it. Don't say she'll never win Roland Garros. There is a greater chance she won't to be honest, but we know what Venus is capable of on any surface at any tournament. I wouldn't put it past her so quickly.

crazillo
Mar 3rd, 2007, 05:59 PM
Do you also have the final against Novotna? I liked that match.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:03 PM
Yeah she has beaten them, so what? does that means she is the second greatest clay court player of the last three years and that she is near of a Roland Garros title? :lol:

And BTW i would put Justine and then Serena.. Period.
You make me sick!!!!! :mad: :lol: :lol: :lol: :p

Venus can win it. That's my point and I stick with it. You're saying that all those players can beat Venus and that's fine but if Venus makes up her mind to win Roland Garros like she did 2005 Wimbledon then she will take all those players out with no problems. If she plays top level against Justine then Justine will probably leave her event feeling hurt also. My opinion, I could care less who disagrees :p

I think it has been proven that Roland Garros is Venus' least favorite grand slam but all she needs to do is clean up that game for seven matches and who knows what will happen. I know what can happen that's for sure. :) :worship:

-VSR-
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:09 PM
:lol:

Spencercarlos is a closet Williams fan. Period. :haha:

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:09 PM
You make me sick!!!!! :mad: :lol: :lol: :lol: :p

Venus can win it. That's my point and I stick with it. You're saying that all those players can beat Venus and that's fine but if Venus makes up her mind to win Roland Garros like she did 2005 Wimbledon then she will take all those players out with no problems. If she plays top level against Justine then Justine will probably leave her event feeling hurt also. My opinion, I could care less who disagrees :p



You wouldn't be implying that Venus hasn't put her all in a grand slam would you?

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:10 PM
Ok better than Venus on clay:
Henin, Hingis, Pierce, Clijsters, Myskina among the active players have a better resume on clay than Venus.. Period.
Not far off Kuznetsova.Henin, of course, no contest, Hingis has definitely done better at RG, but keep in mind their H2H on clay, their matchup would be 50/50. Pierce has a title and a final at RG, but Venus would be a heavy favorite against her. Myskina would be a favorite against Venus in a matchup on clay for sure, RG is the ONLY thing she has over Venus on clay. Kim has a better RG record, but Venus vs. Kim on clay could go either way. You were only able to name 5 players. 2 of those I would def. agree Venus wouldn't have the edge against, Henin and Myskina. One of them she should def. be expected to definitely beat that's Pierce, and two of them could go either way. That definitely puts her in a good position when talking about the better players on clay. Funny u failed to mention Serena as a better player on clay than Venus, but somehow Myskina off her RG title alone is. :rolleyes: You're sick just like VeeReeDavJCap said.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:11 PM
You make me sick!!!!! :mad: :lol: :lol: :lol: :p

Venus can win it. That's my point and I stick with it. You're saying that all those players can beat Venus and that's fine but if Venus makes up her mind to win Roland Garros like she did 2005 Wimbledon then she will take all those players out with no problems. If she plays top level against Justine then Justine will probably leave her event feeling hurt also. My opinion, I could care less who disagrees :p

I think it has been proven that Roland Garros is Venus' least favorite grand slam but all she needs to do is clean up that game for seven matches and who knows what will happen. I know what can happen that's for sure. :) :worship:
Yeah Venus will win Roland Garros and cows fly :)

Keep the dream :)

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:13 PM
Henin, of course, no contest, Hingis has definitely done better at RG, but keep in mind their H2H on clay, their matchup would be 50/50. Pierce has a title and a final at RG, but Venus would be a heavy favorite against her. Myskina would be a favorite against Venus in a matchup on clay for sure, RG is the ONLY thing she has over Venus on clay. Kim has a better RG record, but Venus vs. Kim on clay could go either way. You were only able to name 5 players. 2 of those I would def. agree Venus wouldn't have the edge against, Henin and Myskina. One of them she should def. be expected to definitely beat that's Pierce, and two of them could go either way. That definitely puts her in a good position when talking about the better players on clay. Funny u failed to mention Serena as a better player on clay than Venus, but somehow Myskina off her RG title alone is. :rolleyes: You're sick just like VeeReeDavJCap said.
Sorry, i did not mention Serena, but she definetly is better than Venus on clay!

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:13 PM
Henin, of course, no contest, Hingis has definitely done better at RG, but keep in mind their H2H on clay, their matchup would be 50/50. Pierce has a title and a final at RG, but Venus would be a heavy favorite against her. Myskina would be a favorite against Venus in a matchup on clay for sure, RG is the ONLY thing she has over Venus on clay. Kim has a better RG record, but Venus vs. Kim on clay could go either way. You were only able to name 5 players. 2 of those I would def. agree Venus wouldn't have the edge against, Henin and Myskina. One of them she should def. be expected to definitely beat that's Pierce, and two of them could go either way. That definitely puts her in a good position when talking about the better players on clay. Funny u failed to mention Serena as a better player on clay than Venus, but somehow Myskina off her RG title alone is. :rolleyes: You're sick just like VeeReeDavJCap said.

Pierce won RG and made the finals there twice outside of her win.

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:15 PM
Pierce won RG and made the finals there twice outside of her win.You're right, I forgot about 94. Doesn't change my position on their matchup any though.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:15 PM
Henin, of course, no contest, Hingis has definitely done better at RG, but keep in mind their H2H on clay, their matchup would be 50/50. Pierce has a title and a final at RG, but Venus would be a heavy favorite against her. Myskina would be a favorite against Venus in a matchup on clay for sure, RG is the ONLY thing she has over Venus on clay. Kim has a better RG record, but Venus vs. Kim on clay could go either way. You were only able to name 5 players. 2 of those I would def. agree Venus wouldn't have the edge against, Henin and Myskina. One of them she should def. be expected to definitely beat that's Pierce, and two of them could go either way. That definitely puts her in a good position when talking about the better players on clay. Funny u failed to mention Serena as a better player on clay than Venus, but somehow Myskina off her RG title alone is. :rolleyes: You're sick just like VeeReeDavJCap said.
No i am not, you Venus fans are the ones deluded period when you try to put Venus as a great clay court player when she´s only reached Semifinals of the biggest clay court event just once, and that along with 1 semifinal at it which happens to be the same year where she played the final. :tape:

:wavey:

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:15 PM
You wouldn't be implying that Venus hasn't put her all in a grand slam would you?
Who puts their all into every grand slam? Is that possible?

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:16 PM
You're right, I forgot about 94. Doesn't change my position on their matchup any though.
So what, if it where for you Venus should not lose to anyone on any surface.. So :tape: ;)
:wavey:

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:17 PM
Yeah Venus will win Roland Garros and cows fly :)

Keep the dream :)
If she does win it you won't hear the end of it from me. :)

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:17 PM
Who puts their all into every grand slam? Is that possible?
Every professional player does, is not that why they are compeeting? huh?

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:17 PM
Who puts their all into every grand slam? Is that possible?

Maybe you need to go watch Sharapova/Serena 2005 Australian Open, and get back at me.
When you come back you'll have your answer.

Knizzle
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:19 PM
No i am not, you Venus fans are the ones deluded period when you try to put Venus as a great clay court player when she´s only reached Semifinals of the biggest clay court event just once, and that along with 1 semifinal at it which happens to be the same year where she played the final. :tape:

:wavey:Notice spencer has no answers for all the points I made in the post he just quoted. He diverts to saying Venus made the semis once instead of just saying she only made the finals once. Anything to try and make her look worse, but if we post her career results on clay, what will you have to say then?? I guess Conchita's not a great clay courter cuz she never won RG.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:23 PM
So every single player gives their all in very single grand slam? Justine Henin gave it her all when she lost in the first round of Wimbledon 2005? Or is there a difference between a player giving their all and playing their best?

Every player puts it all on the court and plays their best and does everything they can possibly do to win every single time they play a grand slam? Don't agree. Things happen, players play like crap sometimes.

Convince me please.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:23 PM
Notice spencer has no answers for all the points I made in the post he just quoted. He diverts to saying Venus made the semis once instead of just saying she only made the finals once. Anything to try and make her look worse, but if we post her career results on clay, what will you have to say then?? I guess Conchita's not a great clay courter cuz she never won RG.
For a fact Both Conchita and Sabatini are better clay court players than Venus. Period.

And i was just ponting out because some of you instead of saying 1 Runner up finish at Roland Garros love to say she played 1 final and 1 semifinal at it, so i was making it clear that despite 1+1=2, we are only talking about her Roland Garros 2002 performance. She has nothing more to show beside that.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:26 PM
So every single player gives their all in very single grand slam? Justine Henin gave it her all when she lost in the first round of Wimbledon 2005? Or is there a difference between a player giving their all and playing their best?

Every player puts it all on the court and plays their best and does everything they can possibly do to win every single time they play a grand slam? Don't agree. Things happen, players play like crap sometimes.

Convince me please.
Justine gave all what she had for that day, does it means that was all she can give at her best?.
What Wannabeknowitall means is not like Venus has not given her best effort at Roland Garros on purpose and whenever she wants to she will and will win it, like for a moment you implied.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:29 PM
Justine gave all what she had for that day, does it means that was all she can give at her best?.
What Wannabeknowitall means is not like Venus has not given her best effort at Roland Garros on purpose and whenever she wants to she will and will win it, like for a moment you implied.
I understand.

So every player gives their all but not what they can potentially give. That's sounds reasonable I guess.

jellybelly
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:33 PM
Steffi getting hammered ;) THis shoudl make those people shutup who think she could come back today. THe game moved on, now you need a backhand too :lol:

Don't joke about Venus and Sabatini. Venus is one of the best claycouters of her era. Her era>Sabatini era bigtime!

Wannabeknowitall
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:35 PM
So every single player gives their all in very single grand slam? Justine Henin gave it her all when she lost in the first round of Wimbledon 2005? Or is there a difference between a player giving their all and playing their best?

Every player puts it all on the court and plays their best and does everything they can possibly do to win every single time they play a grand slam? Don't agree. Things happen, players play like crap sometimes.

Convince me please.

Justine was still injured from the French Open that year.
She won all 24 matches during the clay season and half of them went to three sets.
She gave it her all but she obviously didn't have the lift on her serve and the practice she needed on grass against Eleni whose best performances have come on grass (who herself gave all she had in that match).


Players play like crap but it doesn't mean they aren't giving their all.
Every player has off days.

If you're not giving your all on tour in this generation, 9/10 you won't even make it to the top 100.

trufanjay
Mar 3rd, 2007, 06:37 PM
Justine was still injured from the French Open that year.
She won all 24 matches during the clay season and half of them went to three sets.
She gave it her all but she obviously didn't have the lift on her serve and the practice she needed on grass against Eleni whose best performances have come on grass (who herself gave all she had in that match).


Players play like crap but it doesn't mean they aren't giving their all.
Every player has off days.

If you're not giving your all on tour in this generation, 9/10 you won't even make it to the top 100.
I get it

So my reaosning would have to change to if Venus plays her best then.

vwfan
Mar 3rd, 2007, 07:03 PM
Did you really expect anything different?
Especially from him! ;)

This is a wet dream thread for him.
Slighting Venus and fawning over
Steffi all in one! :lick: :drool:no doubt. :lol:

at least, as far as I can tell he stayed clear of the williams def. peer threads probably because there wasn't much to find fault in during venus' game in that final!

vwfan
Mar 3rd, 2007, 07:09 PM
OK but I still feel that going away from coming to net on neutral points in a rally is a saavy play that Venus should still use in her game from time to time.
Noone really expects it and it's hard to do much to beat her there.
She's definately in the opponent's head when she does that. They don't know when she's going to come in.

JMO.I agree actually. Looking at that clip it is clear that Venus is fierce at the net and it also keeps her in the mindset of controlling the point, ending it without the long rallies that she is sometimes pulled into (the girl loves to run--that's the suppressed track star in her) and shutting down the conversation, period. that's one of the things I like about Serena's game, she basically says "this conversation is ovah!"

vwfan
Mar 3rd, 2007, 07:19 PM
Spencer Carolos wrote: "she won´t never win the French Open.":rolleyes:

the reason in grammar that a double negative is incorrect is because it reverses the meaning. So you correctly noted (freudian, i know) she will win the French Open.

and for once, just once, i agreed with your tired, trolling self!

vwfan
Mar 3rd, 2007, 07:24 PM
:lol: Sorry that´s riduculous!

Maybe Myskina, Karatancheva, Vaidisova, Zvonareva, names ring you a bell pr two?

Sorry but Venus could be beaten by a lot players on clay.

Venus has won 8 out of 10 of her matches on clay. She is tied for second with Hingis among active players based on career win/loss percentages.

whatever, nothing new from you. whenever you get desperate to disparage Venus, you're always talking about her clay court game. :help:

and while RG is the penultimate clay court prize, Venus has done quite well in every other clay court tournament.

Thkmra
Mar 3rd, 2007, 07:26 PM
Sorry but Venus has beaten Henin on green clay, and has never beaten her on red clay, the surface where Roland Garros is played.

And oh well, Hingis has never won Roland Garros, she is a nice clay court player, but i would name at least 5 players ahead of her on the surface.

Schnyder? :lol: are you kidding me? She has not even reached a semifinal at Roland Garros.

PD. I named those players because they have beaten Venus at Roland Garros, unlike well what the poster said that "only" Henin and Serena could :lol:. And sorry Venus has played many Roland Garros events to say that she "should have" won it by now. She just does not have what it takes to win there. Sorry..get your facts correct Venus just last year beat Hingis in at the Warsaw Cup,on of all things RED CLAY..great match by the way,highlights on Youtube:(

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:17 PM
Spencer Carolos wrote: "she won´t never win the French Open.":rolleyes:

the reason in grammar that a double negative is incorrect is because it reverses the meaning. So you correctly noted (freudian, i know) she will win the French Open.

and for once, just once, i agreed with your tired, trolling self!
:)
Thanks for the correction. She will never win the French Open or She won´t ever win the French Open.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:23 PM
Steffi getting hammered ;) THis shoudl make those people shutup who think she could come back today. THe game moved on, now you need a backhand too :lol:

Don't joke about Venus and Sabatini. Venus is one of the best claycouters of her era. Her era>Sabatini era bigtime!
Gaby´s era had Evert, Seles, Graf, Navratilova, Arantxa, Novotna, Conchita sorry but in today´s game you don´t have those many big names and many GS wins, even if you name all players playing in the WTA tour today :lol:
Gaby even had to play several times against "no ones" like Pierce, Davenport, Capriati etc

Graf, Navratilova among the three best players ever to play the sport, Evert who is in the top 4. Monica who would be the equivalent of today´s best player from this era Serena. Sorry you go to be joking when making a remark about Gaby´s era being worse than Venus´s.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:26 PM
Sorry..get your facts correct Venus just last year beat Hingis in at the Warsaw Cup,on of all things RED CLAY..great match by the way,highlights on Youtube:(
My advice:
Get the whole match and see it.
Venus made 80 unforced errors and Hingis around 40.
Venus was cramping and Hingis choking. Sorry but that´s horrid tennis, unforced error fest on a clay court. Not a good match to watch if you are looking for tennis quality.

Tennisaddict
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:28 PM
:)
Thanks for the correction. She will never win the French Open or She won´t ever win the French Open.

Never say never :devil:

crazillo
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:32 PM
This thread once was about Steffi and Venus in Hannover. Why not anymore... :sad: GM is so bad.

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:44 PM
Never say never :devil:
Hingis will never win another slam :p

jellybelly
Mar 3rd, 2007, 08:57 PM
Gaby´s era had Evert, Seles, Graf, Navratilova, Arantxa, Novotna, Conchita sorry but in today´s game you don´t have those many big names and many GS wins, even if you name all players playing in the WTA tour today :lol:
Gaby even had to play several times against "no ones" like Pierce, Davenport, Capriati etc

Graf, Navratilova among the three best players ever to play the sport, Evert who is in the top 4. Monica who would be the equivalent of today´s best player from this era Serena. Sorry you go to be joking when making a remark about Gaby´s era being worse than Venus´s.

Venus forehand > Sabatini forehand
Venus backhand > Sabatini backhand
Venus serve > Sabatini serve
Venus movement > Sabatini movement

sorry what were you saying again? :devil:

spencercarlos
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:16 PM
Venus forehand > Sabatini forehand
Venus backhand > Sabatini backhand
Venus serve > Sabatini serve
Venus movement > Sabatini movement

sorry what were you saying again? :devil:
I said only on clay, and i am not even comparing their games, their are totally different styles.
And you may add Mental Toughness as well.

:wavey:

jellybelly
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:36 PM
so clay is magic surface where you can have worse forehands,bachkhand,serve,movement,mental and still be a better player? :lol:

Steffica Greles
Mar 3rd, 2007, 10:53 PM
Venus has always possessed the athleticism to succeed on clay. Indeed, she has defeated the likes of Hingis, Seles, Sanchez-Vicario and even Henin (green clay) on the surface. And she's also won, by my counting, 4 major titles on clay (Rome 99, Hamburg 99, Hamburg 01, Charleston 02).

But Venus' trouble on all surfaces, particularly of recent years, is her lack of desire. Her mind goes on walkabout too many times, and she seems to lack purpose. It's as if she is asking herself why she is there. Against Vaidisova at the French last year was a prime example, and Jankovic at Wimbledon. She was fortunate not to lose to Raymond a round earlier in that championship. On clay, which demands stiff resistance, endurance, concentration, that lack of purpose, patience and resolve is most manifold.

spencercarlos
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:56 AM
Venus has always possessed the athleticism to succeed on clay. Indeed, she has defeated the likes of Hingis, Seles, Sanchez-Vicario and even Henin (green clay) on the surface. And she's also won, by my counting, 4 major titles on clay (Rome 99, Hamburg 99, Hamburg 01, Charleston 02).

But Venus' trouble on all surfaces, particularly of recent years, is her lack of desire. Her mind goes on walkabout too many times, and she seems to lack purpose. It's as if she is asking herself why she is there. Against Vaidisova at the French last year was a prime example, and Jankovic at Wimbledon. She was fortunate not to lose to Raymond a round earlier in that championship. On clay, which demands stiff resistance, endurance, concentration, that lack of purpose, patience and resolve is most manifold.
Hamburg is not a major title, it was a Tier II event.
And i agree most of Venus problems on clay is that she is forced to play many balls and more than any other surface, something she does not like to.

Knizzle
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:56 AM
So what, if it where for you Venus should not lose to anyone on any surface.. So :tape: ;)
:wavey:Spencercarlos abandoning ship. :bolt:

venus_rulez
Mar 4th, 2007, 02:19 AM
Why even argue with stupid people who apparently dislike Venus or have in their mind that if player A, who picked up a racket way back in 1506, was an active player, they would beat everyone in their path and therefore everyone's accomplishments are diminshed by the fact they didn't have to play said player?

The truth is Venus is a very accomplished clay courter and is very good on the surface. It's her worst surface and no one (in their right mind) is denying that, but saying she can't win it (when she's made a final and beaten everyone there is to beat on it, red or green) reminds me of the people who said she wouldn't win a slam before 2005 Wimbledon. You just never know in tennis.

venus_rulez
Mar 4th, 2007, 02:24 AM
And as a Venus fan can I say I am tired of people talking about her commitment level or that she doesn't have purpose when she's out there. As much as I love Venus, I realize she's human and despite knowing that she can beat anyone on any surface on any day, she has bad days sometimes where her forehand sucks ass and her serve is haywire and I get mad and think goodness get it together! It doesn't mean she isn't motivated. And as a parting note (yeah I'm in a preachy mood) look how defensive some of us Williams fans get the minute someone says something disparaging about our girls (no matter how untrue) and look how disgusting and vile some people get and enjoy discrediting the accomplishments of others. Is it no wonder the world is how it is today? I mean my goodness, at the end of the day tennis is a game that we enjoy. Why be nasty and idiotic? Oh and by the way making fun of people and being a smartass on the internet does not make you cool. AT ALL. Just my two cents.

Jessie181
Mar 4th, 2007, 07:35 AM
And as a Venus fan can I say I am tired of people talking about her commitment level or that she doesn't have purpose when she's out there. As much as I love Venus, I realize she's human and despite knowing that she can beat anyone on any surface on any day, she has bad days sometimes where her forehand sucks ass and her serve is haywire and I get mad and think goodness get it together! It doesn't mean she isn't motivated. And as a parting note (yeah I'm in a preachy mood) look how defensive some of us Williams fans get the minute someone says something disparaging about our girls (no matter how untrue) and look how disgusting and vile some people get and enjoy discrediting the accomplishments of others. Is it no wonder the world is how it is today? I mean my goodness, at the end of the day tennis is a game that we enjoy. Why be nasty and idiotic? Oh and by the way making fun of people and being a smartass on the internet does not make you cool. AT ALL. Just my two cents.

:bigclap:

bandabou
Mar 4th, 2007, 01:34 PM
wow...sure looks like a great match. Venus was very on that day. Surely not many people have been able to track Steffi's forehand down lack that.