PDA

View Full Version : U.N. report says Britain worst place for children (U.S. close second)


Stamp Paid
Feb 15th, 2007, 06:33 AM
By Astrid Zweynert and Kate Kelland
Wed Feb 14, 11:12 AM ET


Britain is the worst country in the industrialized world in which to be a child, closely followed by the United States, the United Nations Children's Fund said on Wednesday.
The UNICEF charity looked at 40 indicators to gauge the lives of children in 21 economically advanced nations -- the first study of its kind -- and found Britain's children were among the poorest and most neglected.
Britain lagged behind on key measures of poverty and deprivation, happiness, relationships, and risky or bad behavior, the study showed.
It scored better for health and safety of children but languished in the bottom third for all other measures, giving it the lowest overall placing, just below the United States.
The United States was ranked worst for health and safety and only Britain scored lower for relationships and risky or bad behavior. The highest ranking for the United States was for education where it was ranked 12th out of the 21 countries.
The study found there was no consistent relationship between a country's wealth, as measured in gross domestic product per capita, and a child's quality of life.
The Czech Republic, for example, achieved a higher ranking than economically wealthier France, which was mired in the bottom third along with Britain and the United States.
Children's happiness was rated highest in northern Europe, with the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark leading the list.
"All countries have weaknesses that need to be addressed and no country features in the top third of the rankings for all six dimensions," said David Bull, UNICEF UK's executive director.
DOG-EAT-DOG SOCIETY
Jonathan Bradshaw, professor of social policy at York University in England, one of the report's authors, put Britain's poor ratings down to long-term under-investment in children and a "dog-eat-dog" society.
"In a society which is very unequal, with high levels of poverty, it leads on to what children think about themselves and their lives. That's really what's at the heart of this," Bradshaw told a news conference.
Colette Marshall, UK director of charity Save the Children, said the report was a "shameful" verdict on Britain.
"Despite the UK's wealth, we are failing to give children the best possible start in life," she said in a statement.
She said "drastic action," including an injection of 4.5 billion pounds, was needed to meet a government target of halving the number of children in poverty by 2010.
A government spokeswoman said the data in the report -- mainly taken from 2000 to 2003 -- was not up to date and that reforms introduced through the "Every Child Matters" initiative had improved child welfare.
George Osborne, Treasury spokesman for the opposition Conservative Party, said the report was a damning indictment of the policies of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his finance minister and likely successor Gordon Brown.
"After ten years of his welfare and education policies, our children today have the lowest well-being in the developed world," he said. Brown had "failed this generation of children and will fail the next if he's given a chance," Osborne said.

Wigglytuff
Feb 15th, 2007, 06:59 AM
yeah this sucks.

of course i dont like children, but i still think they should be given the best there is particularly when there is so much wealth and no reason not too.

Halardfan
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:11 PM
I really feel we are a failing society in Britain now...that instead of proggressing in some ways we are regressing...people behavior towards each other feels like its getting worse...or maybe Im just getting old!

Kart
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:21 PM
I really feel we are a failing society in Britain now...that instead of proggressing in some ways we are regressing...people behavior towards each other feels like its getting worse...or maybe Im just getting old!

You're not getting old.

People are more aggressive now than I remember them being when I was a child.

samsung101
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:36 PM
The reason this UN report should be believed is what exactly?

Not that the UN has any bias or anti-UK, anti-US feelings among
the lovely nations that make up the bulk of the meaningless
United Nations these days.




The UN is made up of freedom loving, peaceful, female equality
places like Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Pakistan, Russia,
Uganda, etc.

Another problem would be that children in many of the Euro nations
noted are not wanted: near zero population growth in those areas.
Great place for a kid, if they were wanted or if adults were having
more of them.


Yes, it's true! The US and UK are horrific!

Stay away. Please illegal aliens, stay away. Stay in the lovely
places you come from in droves, like Mexico, Guatemala,
El Salvador, Russia, China, North Korea (if you're lucky to
escape), Venezuela, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, etc

Read the report immigrants, stay out, go to a fun place like
Greenland or Bolivia or Vietnam.

!<blocparty>!
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:40 PM
I was reading about this yesterday, very disappointing.

Sadly I think things are still getting even worst.

Pengwin
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:42 PM
The reason this UN report should be believed is what exactly?

Not that the UN has any bias or anti-UK, anti-US feelings among
the lovely nations that make up the bulk of the meaningless
United Nations these days.




The UN is made up of freedom loving, peaceful, female equality
places like Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Pakistan, Russia,
Uganda, etc.

Another problem would be that children in many of the Euro nations
noted are not wanted: near zero population growth in those areas.
Great place for a kid, if they were wanted or if adults were having
more of them.


Yes, it's true! The US and UK are horrific!

Stay away. Please illegal aliens, stay away. Stay in the lovely
places you come from in droves, like Mexico, Guatemala,
El Salvador, Russia, China, North Korea (if you're lucky to
escape), Venezuela, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, etc

Read the report immigrants, stay out, go to a fun place like
Greenland or Bolivia or Vietnam.

Apart from the fact that the US totally dominates the UN, this post still doesn't make any sense.

Kart
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:49 PM
Read the report immigrants, stay out, go to a fun place like
Greenland or Bolivia or Vietnam.

I think you'd have better success putting them off if you got them to read some of your insensitive posts.

HippityHop
Feb 15th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Apart from the fact that the US totally dominates the UN, this post still doesn't make any sense.


Actually, the post makes a lot of sense. One may not agree with it, but that's not the same as it not making sense.

ptkten
Feb 15th, 2007, 08:23 PM
I'm sick and tired of these reports saying the UK and the US are such horrible places to live. If they were so bad, then why do people keep wanting to come here and to Britain. I would love to see how they came up with their data.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with a lot of the economic and domestic policies of either of these countries, and the United States obviously still has A LOT of work to do, especially among our minority citizens.

However, it's certainly a lot easier to grow up as a child in the United States than in the Czech Republic, even in some of the most poor areas of the U.S. I've spent a lot of time in both places, and the opportunities that exist in the U.S., just arent there yet in the Czech Republic.

Rocketta
Feb 15th, 2007, 08:23 PM
This in no way is shocking news about the US as children don't vote so politicians don't give a rat's ass about them. :shrug:

Sally Struthers
Feb 15th, 2007, 08:26 PM
of course i dont like children,

and you're studying to be a teacher? :weirdo: :help:

Helen Lawson
Feb 15th, 2007, 08:29 PM
and you're studying to be a teacher? :weirdo: :help:

I knew someone who was a teacher for like 20 years and then quit. I asked her why she quit, expecting to hear woes of administrative red tape, school not caring about the students, etc. Nope. The response was, "I hated those awful kids."

Sally Struthers
Feb 15th, 2007, 08:30 PM
I knew someone who was a teacher for like 20 years and then quit. I asked her why she quit, expecting to hear woes of administrative red tape, school not caring about the students, etc. Nope. The response was, "I hated those awful kids."

she was probably one of those bitter ones who couldn't make it in another job so ended up teaching

Cat's Pajamas
Feb 15th, 2007, 11:51 PM
I don't understand how the US and UK are worse than third world countries in Africa and Asia :shrug:

Pengwin
Feb 15th, 2007, 11:51 PM
I don't understand how the US and UK are worse than third world countries in Africa and Asia :shrug:

The title is misleading, it's only out of 25 developed nations.

Rtael
Feb 16th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I don't understand how the US and UK are worse than third world countries in Africa and Asia :shrug:


Didn't read the article?

Stamp Paid
Feb 16th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I don't understand how the US and UK are worse than third world countries in Africa and Asia :shrug:

The article says amongst industrialized nations.

I believe it, I see children this country has forgotten about everyday.

Cat's Pajamas
Feb 16th, 2007, 12:07 AM
I didn't read it all! :o

OK, now I could see that, but my childhood was fine. :shrug:

aussie12
Feb 16th, 2007, 12:28 AM
look at oliver twist, charlie (before he was given the chocolate factory), and even billy elliot was unhappy before he learnt how to dance. let your children dance britian, let them dance!!!

SJW
Feb 16th, 2007, 01:21 AM
hmmmm on one hand I totally see it, on the other hand I loved growing up there and wouldn't have wanted to grow up anywhere else :confused:

Wigglytuff
Feb 16th, 2007, 05:01 AM
and you're studying to be a teacher? :weirdo: :help:

yes, you retarded rat: thats what a sommelier is, :smash: :lol: , wait. no, no its not. will someone with a dictionary tell this retarded rat what a sommelier is...

Wigglytuff
Feb 16th, 2007, 05:05 AM
hmmmm on one hand I totally see it, on the other hand I loved growing up there and wouldn't have wanted to grow up anywhere else :confused:

this is also very true.

Wigglytuff
Feb 16th, 2007, 05:12 AM
I knew someone who was a teacher for like 20 years and then quit. I asked her why she quit, expecting to hear woes of administrative red tape, school not caring about the students, etc. Nope. The response was, "I hated those awful kids."

yeah, kids can be awesome, but they can definitely be awful. few people have what it takes to make it as a great teacher, i know i didnt.

Volcana
Feb 16th, 2007, 05:25 AM
Apart from the fact that the US totally dominates the UN, this post still doesn't make any sense.
It makes as much sense as most of samsung's stuff.

Oh wait, that's what you said.

Seriously, that article doesn't tell us what the measures were, or WHY the USA and Britain ranked so low.

However, for those of you who don;t trust the UN, let's see what the Bush administration has to say.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2003/cb03-153.html

" - According to the official poverty measure, about 1.7 million more
people were in poverty in 2002 than in 2001 34.6 million versus
32.9 million. These estimates reflect the effect of the recession,
which began in March 2001 and ended in November of the same year.

- Five of the six alternative poverty measures developed in response to
the National Academy of Sciences recommendations show no significant
change in the number of people in poverty between 2001 and 2002; the
sixth shows the number in poverty rose by 1.0 million. Each of
the nine additional alternative measures show an increase in the number
of people in poverty, ranging from 1.2 million to 1.4 million.

- Both sets of alternative measures illustrate how estimates of the
poverty rate are sensitive to the method used. In comparison to the
official estimate of 12.1 percent, all six of the NAS-based measures
show somewhat higher poverty rates. On the other hand, nine other
alternative poverty measures based on alternative definitions of income
show substantially lower rates of poverty, with the lowest estimate
being 7.5 percent.

- The poverty rate and number of families in poverty increased from 6.8
million in 2001 (or 9.2 percent of all families) to 7.2 million (or
9.6 percent) in 2002.

- The poverty rates for children, those age 65 and over, non-Hispanic
whites, Asians, Hispanics, female-householder families, those in
central cities or outside metropolitan areas and people in the
Northeast, South and West did not change between 2001 and 2002.

- The number of people in severe poverty increased from 13.4 million in
2001 to 14.1 million in 2002, and the number just above the poverty
threshold, 12.5 million, did not change."

Now let's pry loose what that means. In 2002, there were somewhere between 280,000,000 and 290,000,000 people living legally in the USA. This jibes with a poverty rate of 12.1%, at a population of 34.6 million.

How many of those are children? The report carefully doesn't say. I happen to know that most of those living in poverty are children, but is it 51%, or 90%? Big difference. Add in the number of Americans without health insurance.

So why would a poor country do better than a wealthy one? Well, if the poor country guaranteed children access toa doctor, even if the doctor didn't have access to the range of medicine an American doctor did, that WOULD make a difference.

However, the central point that the USA dominates the UN is the one that lends the most validity to the report. The idea that the US is a hotbed of anti-USA sentiment is false. It is, however, a place where support for the USA, and it's actions, is not required. It's not terribly surprising that sometimes they disagree with us. But I haven't noticed any worldwide movement to re-locate the UN to the Hague.

Caz
Feb 16th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Seriously, that article doesn't tell us what the measures were, or WHY the USA and Britain ranked so low.



There was a link to the full report on Yahoo and I was going to read it, but I didn't have time and didn't bookmark it and now I can't find the link again. I did look at it briefly though and from what I remember there were five categories on things like poverty, education, safety and well being, subjective well being and things like that. I believe the UK was only out of the bottom sector of the results for saftey and well being and the US got it's highest result for education and possibly was out of the bottom sector for someting else too, but I might be wrong, cos don't remember exactly and as I say, unfortunately, I can't find the link again to read the report properly.

Cam'ron Giles
Feb 16th, 2007, 01:17 PM
I'm not a kid but I love living in the US...Love the things it affords me and the opportunity to be whatever I want...:D

Calvin
Feb 16th, 2007, 01:21 PM
There was a link to the full report on Yahoo and I was going to read it, but I didn't have time and didn't bookmark it and now I can't find the link again. I did look at it briefly though and from what I remember there were five categories on things like poverty, education, safety and well being, subjective well being and things like that. I believe the UK was only out of the bottom sector of the results for saftey and well being and the US got it's highest result for education and possibly was out of the bottom sector for someting else too, but I might be wrong, cos don't remember exactly and as I say, unfortunately, I can't find the link again to read the report properly.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2007/02/14/UNchildwellbeing.pdf

Caz
Feb 16th, 2007, 01:38 PM
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2007/02/14/UNchildwellbeing.pdf

Thanks!! :)

Pengwin
Feb 18th, 2007, 05:04 PM
Indeed, British teenagers are, have always been, by nature, rebellious, stroppy, and a lot less interested in being fair than they are in being interesting. Which to my mind is much less creepy and disturbing than the thought of all those sucky-up kids from Holland and Sweden (henceforth known as the apple-polishing nations) chirruping away about how much they respect their elders. Bearing this in mind, this was the only possible result for this study.

^^

From the Guardian :lol:

suffer well
Feb 18th, 2007, 05:29 PM
"No but yeah but yeah but yeah no but yeah no but yeah... ...but no because the working class now becoming the scum of the earth... ...when we were once the salt of the earth."

"Oh... I can't believe you just said that"

"Don't give me evos!"

Monica_Rules
Feb 18th, 2007, 06:32 PM
^ LOL!

I think it also depends on what part of the country you live in. If you come from a run down inner city area your up bringing will be not so good and britian has a LOT of these kind of areas.

I come from the country side and my upbringing has been great, i feel safe, good education, crime has hardly affected me so far so where in a country you are brought up will affect it.

But i'm not suprised to fidn the UK and USA the bottom 2.

*hingis_forever*
Feb 18th, 2007, 10:30 PM
I'm sorry but this survey is irrelevant. Part of the criteria was asking the kids if they liked school. Of course they're gonna say no. I'd also like to know who they surveyed. UK and USA may not be the best for children by all means but they are by no means the worst places for children out of developed nations.

Wigglytuff
Feb 19th, 2007, 12:21 AM
I'm sorry but this survey is irrelevant. Part of the criteria was asking the kids if they liked school. Of course they're gonna say no. I'd also like to know who they surveyed. UK and USA may not be the best for children by all means but they are by no means the worst places for children out of developed nations.

thats not true. school can be enjoyable for students, and the reasons why its not enjoyable do matter. is it not enjoyable because they arent learning anything, because their basic needs are not being met, because the system has taken all the joy out of learning. any of these things and more matter.

and personally as a former educator i can think of no worse developed nation for children to be educated than america. maybe its not the worst, but i have not been to any other developed nation that is doing a worse job. maybe you have and can share with us your experiences.

SelesFan70
Feb 19th, 2007, 03:13 AM
thats not true. school can be enjoyable for students, and the reasons why its not enjoyable do matter. is it not enjoyable because they arent learning anything, because their basic needs are not being met, because the system has taken all the joy out of learning. any of these things and more matter.

and personally as a former educator i can think of no worse developed nation for children to be educated than america. maybe its not the worst, but i have not been to any other developed nation that is doing a worse job. maybe you have and can share with us your experiences.

Problem number 1... :lol:

!<blocparty>!
Feb 19th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Problem number 1... :lol:

Death.

Wigglytuff
Feb 19th, 2007, 03:37 AM
Problem number 1... :lol:

:retard: :smash:

Wigglytuff
Feb 19th, 2007, 03:40 AM
It makes as much sense as most of samsung's stuff.

Oh wait, that's what you said.

Seriously, that article doesn't tell us what the measures were, or WHY the USA and Britain ranked so low.

However, for those of you who don;t trust the UN, let's see what the Bush administration has to say.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2003/cb03-153.html

" - According to the official poverty measure, about 1.7 million more
people were in poverty in 2002 than in 2001 34.6 million versus
32.9 million. These estimates reflect the effect of the recession,
which began in March 2001 and ended in November of the same year.

- Five of the six alternative poverty measures developed in response to
the National Academy of Sciences recommendations show no significant
change in the number of people in poverty between 2001 and 2002; the
sixth shows the number in poverty rose by 1.0 million. Each of
the nine additional alternative measures show an increase in the number
of people in poverty, ranging from 1.2 million to 1.4 million.

- Both sets of alternative measures illustrate how estimates of the
poverty rate are sensitive to the method used. In comparison to the
official estimate of 12.1 percent, all six of the NAS-based measures
show somewhat higher poverty rates. On the other hand, nine other
alternative poverty measures based on alternative definitions of income
show substantially lower rates of poverty, with the lowest estimate
being 7.5 percent.

- The poverty rate and number of families in poverty increased from 6.8
million in 2001 (or 9.2 percent of all families) to 7.2 million (or
9.6 percent) in 2002.

- The poverty rates for children, those age 65 and over, non-Hispanic
whites, Asians, Hispanics, female-householder families, those in
central cities or outside metropolitan areas and people in the
Northeast, South and West did not change between 2001 and 2002.

- The number of people in severe poverty increased from 13.4 million in
2001 to 14.1 million in 2002, and the number just above the poverty
threshold, 12.5 million, did not change."

Now let's pry loose what that means. In 2002, there were somewhere between 280,000,000 and 290,000,000 people living legally in the USA. This jibes with a poverty rate of 12.1%, at a population of 34.6 million.

How many of those are children? The report carefully doesn't say. I happen to know that most of those living in poverty are children, but is it 51%, or 90%? Big difference. Add in the number of Americans without health insurance.

So why would a poor country do better than a wealthy one? Well, if the poor country guaranteed children access toa doctor, even if the doctor didn't have access to the range of medicine an American doctor did, that WOULD make a difference.

However, the central point that the USA dominates the UN is the one that lends the most validity to the report. The idea that the US is a hotbed of anti-USA sentiment is false. It is, however, a place where support for the USA, and it's actions, is not required. It's not terribly surprising that sometimes they disagree with us. But I haven't noticed any worldwide movement to re-locate the UN to the Hague.

this may well be one of the reasons the us ranks so low.

antonella
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:13 AM
Charles Moore of the Telegraph had a few good points to be made on this 'subject':


'One of the great skills in modern life is knowing how to get your own view about anything entrenched in people's minds. This is what academics are always trying to do. Generally, they fail, because almost no one reads their work.
The answer, therefore, is to produce a "report", which sounds much better than a mere expression of opinions, and to push it out under the aegis of some organisation that people have heard of. The media then read and regurgitate the report's "executive summary" (the first page) and a couple of charts, and what started life as a lonely little PhD suddenly becomes universal "fact".
This week's "Report Card", An Overview of Child Wellbeing in Rich Countries, produced by Unicef, is, in this narrow sense, a work of genius. It became, in headlines, a "UN report", and, in no time at all, the press was stating as fact that Britain is (I quote from the Independent) "the worst country in the Western world in which to be a child".'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/02/17/do1701.xml

aussie12
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:15 AM
look we all know australia is the best country:)

Wigglytuff
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:25 AM
Charles Moore of the Telegraph had a few good points to be made on this 'subject':


'One of the great skills in modern life is knowing how to get your own view about anything entrenched in people's minds. This is what academics are always trying to do. Generally, they fail, because almost no one reads their work.
The answer, therefore, is to produce a "report", which sounds much better than a mere expression of opinions, and to push it out under the aegis of some organisation that people have heard of. The media then read and regurgitate the report's "executive summary" (the first page) and a couple of charts, and what started life as a lonely little PhD suddenly becomes universal "fact".
This week's "Report Card", An Overview of Child Wellbeing in Rich Countries, produced by Unicef, is, in this narrow sense, a work of genius. It became, in headlines, a "UN report", and, in no time at all, the press was stating as fact that Britain is (I quote from the Independent) "the worst country in the Western world in which to be a child".'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/02/17/do1701.xml

thats got to be longest winded way of saying "i dont buy it" ever.:eek:

antonella
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:29 AM
thats got to be longest winded way of saying "i dont buy it" ever.:eek:

The Brits excell at that sort of thing.

Wigglytuff
Feb 19th, 2007, 04:39 AM
The Brits excell at that sort of thing.

:lol: :lol: :haha: harsh dude!!! :lol: :help:

Scotso
Feb 20th, 2007, 03:00 AM
Communism works wonders.

Apoleb
Feb 20th, 2007, 03:04 AM
This isn't really shocking. The US does have one of the highest (if not the highest) poverty and crime rates in the developped world. I'm a bit surprised about the UK though, but they aren't down the list either.

trivfun
Feb 20th, 2007, 05:28 AM
The reason this UN report should be believed is what exactly?

Not that the UN has any bias or anti-UK, anti-US feelings among
the lovely nations that make up the bulk of the meaningless
United Nations these days.




The UN is made up of freedom loving, peaceful, female equality
places like Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Pakistan, Russia,
Uganda, etc.

Another problem would be that children in many of the Euro nations
noted are not wanted: near zero population growth in those areas.
Great place for a kid, if they were wanted or if adults were having
more of them.


Yes, it's true! The US and UK are horrific!

Stay away. Please illegal aliens, stay away. Stay in the lovely
places you come from in droves, like Mexico, Guatemala,
El Salvador, Russia, China, North Korea (if you're lucky to
escape), Venezuela, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, etc

Read the report immigrants, stay out, go to a fun place like
Greenland or Bolivia or Vietnam.



Stay away. Please illegal aliens, stay away. Stay in the lovely
places you come from in droves, like Mexico, Guatemala,
El Salvador, Russia, China, North Korea (if you're lucky to
escape), Venezuela, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, etc


That is what those nations have been saying to the U.S. concerning corporations, army bases, supporting local drug dealers for shipping drugs into the U.S. and other places. Of course, U.S. gets the profit in those or else.