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Qrystyna
Feb 13th, 2007, 04:51 PM
BEIJING -
North Korea agreed Tuesday to shut down its main nuclear reactor and eventually dismantle its atomic weapons program in exchange for millions of dollars in aid, just four months after the communist state shocked the world by testing a nuclear bomb.
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The deal, reached after arduous talks, marks the first concrete plan for disarmament in more than three years of six-nation negotiations. The plan also could potentially herald a new era of cooperation in the region with the North's longtime foes the United States and Japan also agreeing to discuss normalizing relations.

"Obviously we have a long way to go, but we're very pleased with this agreement," U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill told reporters. "It's a very solid step forward."

Making sure North Korea declares all its nuclear facilities and shuts them down is likely to prove difficult, nuclear experts have said. In a sign of possible tensions to come, North Korean state media said the pact required only a "temporary suspension" of the country's nuclear facilities.

The White House said the agreement was an important step.

"If they don't abide by the terms, they don't get the benefits they desire," White House press secretary Tony Snow said.

The country has sidestepped previous agreements, allegedly running a uranium-based weapons program even as it froze a plutonium-based one sparking the latest nuclear crisis in late 2002. There are believed to be countless mountainside tunnels in which to hide projects.

"We don't have an agreement at this point even on the existence of this program but I certainly have made very clear repeatedly that we need to ensure that we know precisely the status of that," Hill said.

Under the deal, the North would receive initial aid equal to 50,000 tons of heavy fuel oil for shutting down and sealing its main nuclear reactor and related facilities at Yongbyon, north of the capital, within 60 days, to be confirmed by international inspectors. For irreversibly disabling the reactor and declaring all nuclear programs, the North will eventually receive another 950,000 tons in aid.

One million tons of oil would be equivalent to more than two-thirds of North Korea's entire oil consumption in 2004, according figures in the
CIA Factbook. Hill said the aid package was worth about $250 million.

The agreement, which also requires that North Korea state all its nuclear programs including plutonium already extracted, was read to all delegates in a conference room at a Chinese state guesthouse. Chinese envoy Wu Dawei asked if there were objections. With none made, the officials all stood and applauded.

"I consider the agreement as a new milestone in denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula," said South Korean Assistant Foreign Minister Chun Yung-woo.

But already before its adoption, the deal drew strong criticism from John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., who urged
President Bush to reject it.

"I am very disturbed by this deal," Bolton told CNN. "It sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: 'If we hold out long enough, wear down the State Department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded,' in this case with massive shipments of heavy fuel oil for doing only partially what needs to be done."

If North Korea goes through with its promises, they would be the first moves the communist nation has made to scale back its atomic development since the talks began in 2003 after the North kicked out international inspectors and restarted its sole operating nuclear reactor.

Hill said North Korea miscalculated world reaction when it tested a nuclear device in October.

"I think they understand that these nuclear weapons, far from being a means of security or prestige, have really acted to isolate North Korea as never before," Hill told the Associated Press.

Hill said the North Koreans had insisted that the specific amount of aid be spelled out during the talks and not left to a later working group to address as the U.S. had wanted.

In return, Hill said the negotiators moved to also discuss the next step in disarmament, the actual disabling of the North's programs so they could not easily be restarted.

"We took what was essentially a sticking point and used it as a way to make further progress on the road to denuclearization," he said.

Under the agreement, North Korea and United States will embark on talks aimed at resolving disputes and restarting diplomatic relations, Wu said. The Korean peninsula has remained in a state of war for more than a half-century since the Korean War ended in a 1953 cease-fire.

The United States will also begin the process of removing North Korea from its designation as a terror-sponsoring state and also on ending U.S. trade sanctions, but no deadlines have been was set, according to the agreement.

Washington's blacklisting of a Macau bank in September 2005 had led the North to a more-than-yearlong boycott of the six-nation talks during which it tested its first nuclear bomb. Hill said the U.S. would address that matter within 30 days.

Japan and North Korea also will seek to normalize relations, under the agreement.

But Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in Tokyo that his country would not contribute aid to the North until the issue of the abductions of its citizens by North Korea is resolved. North Korea has admitted to abducting Japanese citizens, but not to Japan's satisfaction.

After the initial 60 days, a meeting will be held of foreign ministers from all countries at the talks China, Japan, Russia, the United States and the two Koreas.

Under the agreement, five working groups are to meet within 30 days: denuclearization; normalization of U.S.-North Korea relations; normalization of North Korea-Japan relations; economy and energy cooperation; and peace and security in northeast Asia.

A meeting of the nuclear envoys is set for March 19 to check on the groups' progress.

In September 2005 during the six-nation talks, North Korea was promised energy aid and security guarantees in exchange for pledging to abandon its nuclear programs. But talks on implementing that agreement repeatedly stalled on other issues.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070213/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear

samsung101
Feb 13th, 2007, 04:57 PM
More of the same old thing from North Korea.
It would be nice if worked out.

Chances of that are slim to zero.

We promise to talk, and we remove sanctions, and they get
cash.

We get........squat.


Not as horrific as the Albright/Jimmy Carter pushed package
of the 90's.

But, almost.

North Korea gets cash.
We get promises.
North Korea gets time.
We get promises.

Kim's track record proves what his promise is worth: nothing.

China smiles.
Iran smiles.

The more the USA has to deal with North Korea, as the rest of the
UN nations do nothing, the more China, Iran, Venezuela, Syria, etc.,
can continue to do what they like....build nukes, arm terrorists,
and spread communist/Islamo-fascist ideas to the world. China
is building a gigantic military at an alarming rate, not to be the
friend of the West. Who is helping fund North Korea, Iran, and
Venezuela, and Cuba still? China. Waiting to take out Taiwan.
Waiting to move south in Korea.

The U.S. State Dept. track record with agreements and treaties
since the 1979 Iran takeover....miserable.

Lord Nelson
Feb 13th, 2007, 07:09 PM
Yet another victory for the Bush Administration. Man, how much good work has Bush done? Iraq, Afghanistan, Liberia, Haiti and now North Korea. Lets not forget the peace deal with Libya. Also the fight against Islamic radicalism in southern Phillippines is finally paying dividends. I can go on and on about Bush successes.

Sure things are not perfect. But now Al queda must be hating to see shiites fighting sunnis and the so called Islamic union against the West. As for North korea, even China is pressuring them to change. China does not want North Korea to leave its zone of influence and end being communist. But it wants it to be stable and that only can be done if tension is dramatically decreased with its neighbours and U.S. Japan did a good job with its sanctions though South Korea was too chicken to do anything.

Pureracket
Feb 13th, 2007, 07:11 PM
Yet another victory for the Bush Administration. Man, how much good work has Bush done? Iraq, Afghanistan, Liberia, Haiti and now North Korea. Lets not forget the peace deal with Libya. Also the fight against Islamic radicalism in sotuthern Phillippines is finally paying dividends. I can go on and on about Bush successes.

Sure things are not perfect. But now Al queda must be hating to see shiites fighting sunnis and the so called Islamic union against the West. As for North korea, even China is pressuring them to change. Chian does not want North Korea to leave its zone of influence and end being communist. But it wants it to be stable and that ponly can be done if tension is dramatically decreased with its neighbours and U.S. Japan did a good job with its sanctions though South Korea was too chicken too do anything.
LOL!!!!! Wondering if you like your own gov't as much as you like the one over here.:confused: I've heard of foreigners loving the US, but. . .damn.

Also, I'm sure not even the most rabid Bush NeoCon believes the N. Koreans on this.

Lord Nelson
Feb 13th, 2007, 07:19 PM
LOL!!!!! Wondering if you like your own gov't as much as you like the one over here.:confused: I've heard of foreigners loving the US, but. . .damn.

Also, I'm sure not even the most rabid Bush NeoCon believes the N. Koreans on this.

I love all U.S. Governments whether they are republican or democrat. I am now rooting for Obama to win the U.S. elections. Of course foreigners love the U.S. why do you think so many are emigrating there? D'oh.

Yes I love both of my nations, Bhārat Gaṇarājya and Helvetia. The Swiss government is also ideal for its size. The federal council which is the executive power is made up of all of the main political components. As for the Indian government, for a developing nation it is not doing too badly. I actually wish that the Congress party made a Grand Coalition with the BJP party instead of allying itself with left wing radicals. :rolleyes:

HippityHop
Feb 13th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. :tape:

Qrystyna
Feb 13th, 2007, 11:02 PM
Yet another victory for the Bush Administration. Man, how much good work has Bush done? Iraq, Afghanistan, Liberia, Haiti and now North Korea. Lets not forget the peace deal with Libya. Also the fight against Islamic radicalism in southern Phillippines is finally paying dividends. I can go on and on about Bush successes.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
You should really move to the USA and join Fox News. You would be perfect for them.

I fail to see how any of this has to do with Bush. (I also fail to see what good he's done in Iraq, or what exactly he's done for Liberia or Haiti, but that's another thread). It is quite clear that by what the North Korean propaganda machine is telling its citizens, it probably won't live up to its end of the bargain.

SelesFan70
Feb 14th, 2007, 02:09 AM
We heard this in 1994 when Madame Albright sipped champaign with Kim Jong Il.... :rolleyes:

aussie12
Feb 14th, 2007, 02:15 AM
well done to the other countries especially china who didnt give in to north korea

Lord Nelson
Feb 14th, 2007, 01:06 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You should really move to the USA and join Fox News. You would be perfect for them.

I fail to see how any of this has to do with Bush. (I also fail to see what good he's done in Iraq, or what exactly he's done for Liberia or Haiti, but that's another thread). It is quite clear that by what the North Korean propaganda machine is telling its citizens, it probably won't live up to its end of the bargain.

I already lived in the U.S. Been there, done that. Also there is nothing wrong with Fox News. It can't be worse then the Guardian. With Haiti, the nation is more stable today after Arisitide was booted out by Americans and French. Preval is a far better leader then Aristide ever was. As for Liberia, the country was in a civil war which ended after U.S. troops arrived in the country and the notorious warlord Charles Taylor fled Liberia. With U.S. help, elections were successful and the new leader is so far doing a good job. With regards to North Korea, the deal is not about making the nation a democracy but to dismantle the main nuclear power station. Of course things will probably not go as planned but we can all hope like we did for Clinton when Albright went to North Korea. :lol:

With Iraq, Bush has freed the Kurds frm the clutches of the Arabs. Things will be better once Kirkuk becomes the capital of an autonomous Kurdistan. The Turks will bitch but won't do anything about it becasue they want to have good relations with U.S. The Arabs will hate it but they are already fighting each other (sunnis vs. shiites) and won't have the time to fight against Kurds. Even if they do they will have to face off against the Kurdish Peshmerga. :worship:

The pan Islamic alliance that was dreamt by al queda was shattered when sunnis began fighting against shiites. So there won't be muslims vs. west. It is muslims vs. muslims. All this thanks to Bush who only had to get rid of a madman-Saddam Hussein and watch the enemy fight with each other. Ex. Al queda of Iraq against shiite militias. :yeah:

Hagar
Feb 14th, 2007, 04:42 PM
I So there won't be muslims vs. west. It is muslims vs. muslims.

Although I find it very sad to see the bombings every day on the news, I'm kind of happy to see that the eternal blaming of the West by muslims is unfounded. They are doing it to themselves and the whole world can see it.
I do hope that moderate muslims say "Stop" to all this violence and force the violent idiots to grow up and behave in a civilized way.

samsung101
Feb 14th, 2007, 04:53 PM
North Korea did not agree to disarm.

They agreed to smile, talk some more to men and women in
nice suits from a few nations, and the USA, and make lots of
promises to be let them talk about nuclear disarmament.

They in return for this get fuel, cash, and international praise.

We get, smiles and tables with men and women in suits talking.
Not much more.

We've been down this road over and over w/North Korea. Same
old, same old. Better than nothing? It's about the same thing
as nothing. It only allows the US State Dept. to look like it did
something.

They did the same dance with Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and with
Dubya. He has refused to talk alone w/them, which is good. But,
this isn't much progress really.

They should be forced to open up their nation to the world for
review now, and then given something like food, and nothing else.

Give up the material and equipment, and you get something in return.

But, that's too 'mean'.



North Korea is laughing.
China, the #1 North Korea supplier and cash purse, is laughing.
Iran and Venezuela, say, good, more time to do our stuff.

meyerpl
Feb 14th, 2007, 05:31 PM
I've got to give the Bush administration credit on this one. Of course we don't trust North Korea, however; we have a choice, as with any adversary, between talking with them, fighting with them or ignoring them and they'll do whatever they will.

This aggreement doesn't eliminate North Korea as a threat, but we're in a much better position to monitor the North Koreans with it than we are without it.

-Ph51-
Feb 14th, 2007, 06:47 PM
And tomorrow the next episode...;)

Qrystyna
Feb 14th, 2007, 07:47 PM
I already lived in the U.S. Been there, done that. Also there is nothing wrong with Fox News. It can't be worse then the Guardian. With Haiti, the nation is more stable today after Arisitide was booted out by Americans and French. Preval is a far better leader then Aristide ever was. As for Liberia, the country was in a civil war which ended after U.S. troops arrived in the country and the notorious warlord Charles Taylor fled Liberia. With U.S. help, elections were successful and the new leader is so far doing a good job. With regards to North Korea, the deal is not about making the nation a democracy but to dismantle the main nuclear power station. Of course things will probably not go as planned but we can all hope like we did for Clinton when Albright went to North Korea. :lol:

With Iraq, Bush has freed the Kurds frm the clutches of the Arabs. Things will be better once Kirkuk becomes the capital of an autonomous Kurdistan. The Turks will bitch but won't do anything about it becasue they want to have good relations with U.S. The Arabs will hate it but they are already fighting each other (sunnis vs. shiites) and won't have the time to fight against Kurds. Even if they do they will have to face off against the Kurdish Peshmerga. :worship:

The pan Islamic alliance that was dreamt by al queda was shattered when sunnis began fighting against shiites. So there won't be muslims vs. west. It is muslims vs. muslims. All this thanks to Bush who only had to get rid of a madman-Saddam Hussein and watch the enemy fight with each other. Ex. Al queda of Iraq against shiite militias. :yeah:

You always come off sounding like a Fox News mouthpiece Lord Nelson. Fox News is worse than the Guardian because it likely has a much larger viewership, and it is incredibly biased. As a poster you completely baffle me. I can understand why samsung101 posts what it does (even if I'm not sure it's a real person) but I don't really get you at all!

Lord Nelson
Feb 14th, 2007, 08:17 PM
You always come off sounding like a Fox News mouthpiece Lord Nelson. Fox News is worse than the Guardian because it likely has a much larger viewership, and it is incredibly biased. As a poster you completely baffle me. I can understand why samsung101 posts what it does (even if I'm not sure it's a real person) but I don't really get you at all!

Look, I always was hostile to arabization of the middle east. I am not biased. If Clinton did what Bush did then I would pat him on his back too. He did help with the Yugoslavian war though things may get nasty there such as in Kosovo. But I liked what he did there.

Unlike some people I look at results regardless of who makes these results. I don't want to demonize Bush just because almost every Tom, Dick and Harry does so. It is clear cut that things have impoved in Haiti and Liberia. Also the siituation of the Kurds has improved too. There is no doubt about that.....By the way I am not pro-Republican I am pro-American policy. The dems and republicans have almost the same attitide with regards to foreign policy then one would think. i.e support of Israel, fighting of islamist radicalism, fight of communism, strengthening of democracies and opening of markets. All these items I support. Now if you are still in the loop why I am pro U.S. then sorry I can't help you.

Fingon
Feb 14th, 2007, 09:13 PM
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. :tape:

very true, however, it's not that simple.

I find it really puzzling how posters, from the right and the left criticize this agreement. Yes, North Korea is not to be trusted, yes, North Korea maybe buying time, yes to all of that.

But, what's the alternative? there is one thing that is clear, if you want to prevent a country from adquiring nuclear weapons, you have to do it before they get them, because once they have them, it's very difficult to attack them, pure and simple.

Here the one at fault is Clinton, because when he negotiated the agreement, North Korea did not have nuclear weapons, it could be attacked, not now, not unless they are willing to pay the price.

North Korea is not Iraq, it's not Iran and is certainly not Afghanistan. It has a comparative large army, well trained and well equipped, an invasion would be extremely difficult.

Air strikes? it wouldn't be that simple, North Korea's air force has to be taken seriously, still, the Americans' B2 bombers can get through but they wouldn't be able to launch a massive operation, they only have 21 B2s in service, the F22s would also do the job but they have not enough of them (that's also for those who said the US air force you have sticked to the F15), anyway, military technology aside, it's likely that conventional weapons wouldn't do the job, they would probably not destroy the nuclear sites and any strategy trying to force North Korea into sumission by bombing the hell out of them would not work because the North Koreans have the nuclear card.

So what are the posters that say the agreement is bad proposing? a nuclear attack? using strategic weapons?, even if we forget about the lives or North Koreans that would be killed in mass, the radiation would likely affect South Korea very seriously, and parts of China and Russia, there could be massive earthquakes and tsunamis and that's assuming the North Koreans don't launch one of their own nukes against South Korea or Japan.

One big problem is, the massive nuclear capability of the US is not a deterrent against North Korea because their leader Kim jong_il just doesn't care, either we gets his own way of he can burn the entire country with him.

They don't need a trident missile to solve the Korean problem, they only need a small bullet in Kim Jong Il's head.