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View Full Version : Serena Williams on form is unbeatable ,who agrees?


marmar1212
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:23 AM
She sad if she's playing well nobody can beat her. I agree .

DimaDinosaur
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:34 AM
Serena is amazing! She has power, brains, and fighting spirit. That's the total package, which is hard to beat on and off the court. :worship:

austennis
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:36 AM
I like Serena but i wouldnt call her unbeatable yet.. she is still to play the likes of Amelie, Justine, Kim, Martina, Venus this year..

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:42 AM
I've never seen someone beat on ON FORM Serena, but everybody knows that on these boards- even if it was true- many here wouldn't admit it. So, what's the point?

PLP
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:50 AM
She's definitely close, but nobody is unbeatable, it's a game and certain things come down to chance. Venus/JuJu/Martina/Masha are the players most capable of brining Rena down, but of course they have to be in sparkling form.

Brett.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:54 AM
Serena Williams is becoming the next Unbeatable "Roger Federer" Player! :worship:

tennnisfannn
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:39 AM
When serena is in form, it takes a cpariati to give her the run around. In the 2002/3 season, only jen could bother serena despite the lop sided h2h.
The likes of davenport, amelie only started beating serena in the last couple years when they were playing at their best and serena not so. Explans a alot.

pigam
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:41 AM
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Henin
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Mauresmo
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Hingis

this means absolutely zero.
Serena is a great great player. The players who will beat her are the ones who will be able to "get her off form". i.e; try to get her off balance by mixing it up, staying very aggressive themselves and serving out of their mind.
You can get Hingis "off form" by taking her confidence away by playing deep hard and aggressive.
You can get henin off form by hitting it very deep and hard in her backhand, by serving so that she can't step in on the return.
you can get Mauresmo off form by attacking her rather weak forehand and coming in to the net and not letting yourself get drawn into endless spin rallies etc.

every topplayer is imho unbeatable "on her top form". The thing is, how do you get her out of that topform. That's how tennis and any other sport works. If any of these player loose, is it because they were "off form"? Probably. The question than remains, who made them go "off form"? That's just mo.

franny
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:45 AM
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Henin
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Mauresmo
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Hingis

this means absolutely zero.
Serena is a great great player. The players who will beat her are the ones who will be able to "get her off form". i.e; try to get her off balance by mixing it up, staying very aggressive themselves and serving out of their mind.
You can get Hingis "off form" by taking her confidence away by playing deep hard and aggressive.
You can get henin off form by hitting it very deep and hard in her backhand, by serving so that she can't step in on the return.
you can get Mauresmo off form by attacking her rather weak forehand and coming in to the net and not letting yourself get drawn into endless spin rallies etc.

every topplayer is imho unbeatable "on her top form". The thing is, how do you get her out of that topform. That's how tennis and any other sport works. If any of these player loose, is it because they were "off form"? Probably. The question than remains, who made them go "off form"? That's just mo.

Exactly. Imo, there is no such thing as two players playing their best, because "their best" can never be defined. One can only play better relative to his or her opponent on any given day. No such thing as unbeatable, because there will always be someone out there who can take you out. Federer, as great as he is, can be beaten by someone who just plays out of their mind and whacks 200 mph shots. Plausible? Not likely. But possible that there is such a specimen out there, and possibly that we just havent found yet.

supergrunt
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:00 AM
This has been disscussed many times and I still stand by that I have never seen Serena loose when she is playing well :D . That cannot be said for some others players who play very good matches and just get outplayed. When Serena loses, it is usually becuase she makes 55+ errors so the opponent just has to get the ball back!

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:03 AM
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Mauresmo
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Hingis

2004 Wimbledon/YEC Semifinals?

1999 US Open Final :shrug:


2000 Wimbledon QF/US Open SF? :shrug:

Louis Cyphre
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:05 AM
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Henin
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Mauresmo
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Hingis

this means absolutely zero.
Serena is a great great player. The players who will beat her are the ones who will be able to "get her off form". i.e; try to get her off balance by mixing it up, staying very aggressive themselves and serving out of their mind.
You can get Hingis "off form" by taking her confidence away by playing deep hard and aggressive.
You can get henin off form by hitting it very deep and hard in her backhand, by serving so that she can't step in on the return.
you can get Mauresmo off form by attacking her rather weak forehand and coming in to the net and not letting yourself get drawn into endless spin rallies etc.

every topplayer is imho unbeatable "on her top form". The thing is, how do you get her out of that topform. That's how tennis and any other sport works. If any of these player loose, is it because they were "off form"? Probably. The question than remains, who made them go "off form"? That's just mo.

so...you are a hater and troll ;) :lol:

ASP0315
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:07 AM
Serena is in good form for sure. :yeah: But she is still beatable player. Actually to be honest Petrova and Shahar Peer got close to beating them. Petrova choked in the second set when serving for the match at 5-3. Peer also served for the match in the third at 6-5. So judging by that she still a beatable player.

Timariot
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:10 AM
2004 Wimbledon/YEC Semifinals?

1999 US Open Final :shrug:


2000 Wimbledon QF/US Open SF? :shrug:

Well then, in-form Serena was beaten by Henin in Berlin final 2002 and Rubin in LA quarters, Clijsters in Championships final etc... :)

Craigy
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:12 AM
I don't know why people are saying that right now she is beatable.
That's not the question :confused:
But I have to admit, most of the time when she's on form she is unbeatable. I think it was her drive and determination to win that set her apart from the rest.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:13 AM
I'll give you the Henin match ( gagarooney :o ) but Rubin and Clijsters?

She was injured @ YEC, and :shrug: I guess Rubin was another gagsville.

sucka_4_serena
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:16 AM
Completely!! Even when not on form Serena wins matches on fighting spirit alone! she just plays her game even if her shots arn't firing she'll just go for them with no fear until she does find them! Ultimate competitor! :D

vwfan
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:24 AM
It's pretty darn hard. If she is in just ok form, her fighting spirit gets her through even through matches where someone is giving her a run for her money a la Kim in SF 2003 or Petrova in 4th round or Maria SF 2005.

She has had many resurrections in Australia though and that is why she is the three time champion! In fact, every time she has won, she has been match point down or set down in one of her seven matches.

Gotta love it--fan or not!

CORIA01
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:27 AM
Serena can be very tough when she is at her best but I do not see her unbeatable. Mary Pierce or Kim Clijsters when they are at their top can be very tough too!! Unbeatable? NO!!
Moreover Seena has to return in top 5 and beat Martina, Kim, Masha, Justine...so we'll see!!

Timariot
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:28 AM
I'll give you the Henin match ( gagarooney :o ) but Rubin and Clijsters?

She was injured @ YEC, and :shrug: I guess Rubin was another gagsville.

Much like Martina in USO semis 2000, then?

Mina Vagante
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:34 AM
at her best she is THE best :p

Si_Hi
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:41 AM
i do think it's difficult to beat on form serena...
but it doesn't mean nobody can beat her whe she's on form...

Si_Hi
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:43 AM
Serena can be very tough when she is at her best but I do not see her unbeatable. Mary Pierce or Kim Clijsters when they are at their top can be very tough too!! Unbeatable? NO!!
Moreover Seena has to return in top 5 and beat Martina, Kim, Masha, Justine...so we'll see!!
Exactly;) ;) :yeah: :yeah:

shibster
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:47 AM
serena is the best tennis player ever :) it's hard to argue with that. when she's on form and winning :). but when she looses, it's cos she's just not on form, or injuries.

why can't you guys get it?

Si_Hi
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:51 AM
serena is the best tennis player ever :) it's hard to argue with that. when she's on form and winning :). but when she looses, it's cos she's just not on form, or injuries.

why can't you guys get it?
well, good one:lol: :lol: :lol::rocker:

Beny
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:57 AM
I`m sorry but I don`t agree. I can`t see whatever Serena (super mega top in form) beating peak Justine on clay ;)

Volcana
Feb 3rd, 2007, 12:55 PM
RIght now, on red clay, if Henin is in top form, and Serena is in top form, Henin could win. Venus, in top form, could win on grass. And yes, two players CAN both play in top form. Sooner or later, somebody gets two points ahead in a tie-breaker.

There have been some great matches where both players held form through-out. Look at the history of the Capriati-Serena matches. Or the Wimbledon '05 final. The '01 RG final, 12-10 in the third, Capriati def Clijsters. And Graf vs Seles, and Evert vs Navratilova, both contain many absolute barn-burners.

If both players are onform, then whoever hits the most winners, wins. It IS possible to hit the ball to places the other player can't reach.

Craigy
Feb 3rd, 2007, 12:57 PM
I`m sorry but I don`t agree. I can`t see whatever Serena (super mega top in form) beating peak Justine on clay ;)

She's done it before :)

UncleZeke
Feb 3rd, 2007, 01:06 PM
Serena at her best, beats anybody on the Tour, today, at their best.

rottweily
Feb 3rd, 2007, 01:06 PM
Bullshit, everybody in top 5 is unbeatable when in top top form. The fact is no such form exists.

rottweily
Feb 3rd, 2007, 01:12 PM
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Henin
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Mauresmo
I have never seen anyone beat an on form Hingis

this means absolutely zero.
Serena is a great great player. The players who will beat her are the ones who will be able to "get her off form". i.e; try to get her off balance by mixing it up, staying very aggressive themselves and serving out of their mind.
You can get Hingis "off form" by taking her confidence away by playing deep hard and aggressive.
You can get henin off form by hitting it very deep and hard in her backhand, by serving so that she can't step in on the return.
you can get Mauresmo off form by attacking her rather weak forehand and coming in to the net and not letting yourself get drawn into endless spin rallies etc.

every topplayer is imho unbeatable "on her top form". The thing is, how do you get her out of that topform. That's how tennis and any other sport works. If any of these player loose, is it because they were "off form"? Probably. The question than remains, who made them go "off form"? That's just mo.

Indeed.

rottweily
Feb 3rd, 2007, 01:16 PM
All this boasting will stop again when she again loses to a nobody.

mykarma
Feb 3rd, 2007, 02:14 PM
When serena is in form, it takes a cpariati to give her the run around. In the 2002/3 season, only jen could bother serena despite the lop sided h2h.
The likes of davenport, amelie only started beating serena in the last couple years when they were playing at their best and serena not so. Explans a alot.
I miss those Serena/Cappy matches. Perhaps Serena's come back will inspire Cappy.

Vlad Tepes
Feb 3rd, 2007, 02:24 PM
She is indeed very hard to beat, but it really depends on the surface and the opponent. I think a Serena - Justine match at RG, with both of them in top form would go Juju's way.

trufanjay
Feb 3rd, 2007, 02:40 PM
She is indeed very hard to beat, but it really depends on the surface and the opponent. I think a Serena - Justine match at RG, with both of them in top form would go Juju's way.
I don't agree with that at all

I think Serena at her best is better than everyone else at their best. Some people may disagree but that is okay. And someone mentioned that they never saw Mauresmo, Justine and Hingis beaten at their best.

For all those who agree with that are you sure that......

An on form Hingis has never been beaten by Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati, Clijsters

An on form Justine has never been beaten by Venus, Serena, Sharapova, Mauresmo

An on form Mauresmo has never been beaten by Venus, Serena, Justine, Davenport

Cause I don't agree with any of those at all. All three of these players have been outplayed and overpowered at some point. Justine is a question mark because I agree that she is a serious force when she plays her best.

iPatty
Feb 3rd, 2007, 02:49 PM
This has been disscussed many times and I still stand by that I have never seen Serena loose when she is playing well :D . That cannot be said for some others players who play very good matches and just get outplayed. When Serena loses, it is usually becuase she makes 55+ errors so the opponent just has to get the ball back!

DEATH at the last sentence. typical serena fan response.
"serena has to play badly to lose."

did you ever think that she's playing badly because her opponent is playing well and not just "getting the ball back"?
when maria beat serena at wimbledon in 2004, she wasn't just hitting the ball back. she was outplaying serena.

get over yourself.

no, she's not unbeatable, by the way.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 02:53 PM
I like Serena but i wouldnt call her unbeatable yet.. she is still to play the likes of Amelie, Justine, Kim, Martina, Venus this year..


She may lose to some of these players. But if she plays like she did
at the AO, Nearly 70% first serve, 11 UFE, a slew of winners, No one
will beat her. Venus is the only one who has a chance, because if she is
playing in form she is nearly as unbeatable.

croat123
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:06 PM
yeah, i miss the serena vs. jen matches. that was one of my favorite rivalries

Dasha_
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:18 PM
I agree.

(I guess Sharapova also agrees)

Beny
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:18 PM
She's done it before :)

2002 Rome :lol:

2002=peak Serena
2002= no peak Henin

2005 clay season...if peak Serena met Justine in 2005`s clay season, Serena would lose ;)

lecciones
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:28 PM
Anybody can win when they are in their best. Its the rhetoric here that matters guys so don't care to post if your not going to say anything nice about Serena thats how this thread goes.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:32 PM
Serena is in good form for sure. :yeah: But she is still beatable player. Actually to be honest Petrova and Shahar Peer got close to beating them. Petrova choked in the second set when serving for the match at 5-3. Peer also served for the match in the third at 6-5. So judging by that she still a beatable player.


Serena was not at her best against Pet and Peer. Its difficult to understand
how anyone who saw the AO final could believe anyone of the ladies
out there would have beaten that Serena.

The excuse was that Pova was serving badly. There was a reason for that.
Serena. Serena was Crushing her 2nd serve. She was going for everthing
including the kitchen sink on her 1st serve cause she didn't want to hit a 2nd.
At one point it looked like she was afraid to hit the ball. No one can serve
well like that.


Henin has never beaten Serena except on Clay and had to cheat in
one of those. And wasn't it Momo who said during Serena Slam time
that basicly everyone else was playing for #3. As for Kim,AO, Up 5-1
in the third when Serena started playing in form and snatched the
match from her. Also Venus in that Wimby Semi final Beat kim when
she could hardly walk. When they are playing at their best no one else
is going to beat either Sister.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:40 PM
Well then, in-form Serena was beaten by Henin in Berlin final 2002 and Rubin in LA quarters, Clijsters in Championships final etc... :)

What makes you think Serena was in-form. If Ree was in-form she wouldn't
have lost. And It was on clay. And didn't Serena come back and beat Henin, on clay, a week or two later in Rome, on clay.

Serena has beaten Henin on all surfaces, Henin has not. Henin has won
only on clay.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:44 PM
i do think it's difficult to beat on form serena...
but it doesn't mean nobody can beat her whe she's on form...

Haven't seen it yet.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:45 PM
Serena can be very tough when she is at her best but I do not see her unbeatable. Mary Pierce or Kim Clijsters when they are at their top can be very tough too!! Unbeatable? NO!!
Moreover Seena has to return in top 5 and beat Martina, Kim, Masha, Justine...so we'll see!!


She already has. I think she has a winning record against all of those players.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:46 PM
serena is the best tennis player ever :) it's hard to argue with that. when she's on form and winning :). but when she looses, it's cos she's just not on form, or injuries.

why can't you guys get it?

Its a mystery to me too.

MH0861
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:47 PM
I personally don't think ANYONE is "unbeatable", but I do agree it's probably the most difficult to beat an on form Serena out of any of the other top players of this generation.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:54 PM
All this boasting will stop again when she again loses to a nobody.

If so it will be because she was not at her best.

And Justine has lost to nobodies. So have all the others.

Didn't Justine lose in the first round of a Slam. Serena has not done that.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:01 PM
DEATH at the last sentence. typical serena fan response.
"serena has to play badly to lose."

did you ever think that she's playing badly because her opponent is playing well and not just "getting the ball back"?
when maria beat serena at wimbledon in 2004, she wasn't just hitting the ball back. she was outplaying serena.

get over yourself.

no, she's not unbeatable, by the way.


When Serena loses take a look at her UFE. Then realize what UFE mean.
Players just get the ball back and hope she misses.
Now look at her UFE against Pova. Only 11. Now look at the outcome
of that match. Nuff said.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:08 PM
I personally don't think ANYONE is "unbeatable", but I do agree it's probably the most difficult to beat an on form Serena out of any of the other top players of this generation.

And any past generation. As for Future Generations of course someone
will come along who is better. Its the nature of things.

walk_away
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:11 PM
Serena at her best is the best player in the world. She has the best serve, most punishing groundstrokes on the women's tour and she has the fight and athleticism that truly sets her apart from the rest. The only other player who comes close to matching that is Venus.

lecciones
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:13 PM
If so it will be because she was not at her best.

And Justine has lost to nobodies. So have all the others.

Didn't Justine lose in the first round of a Slam. Serena has not done that.

I will put my shield up because this is going nowhere. so in other words this thread is useless and so please non serena lovers don't post here.

sweetpeas
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:35 PM
I will put my shield up because this is going nowhere. so in other words this thread is useless and so please non serena lovers don't post here.

Specially if their talking mess ? When someone "'talking the true,let them talk!1 rjd11111111...........speaking the true! Justine won f.o. and Serena took her out in 2 set at wimb.Justine was her best at f.o. right? I hope all the player"s stay healthy.We will see?

Kunal
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:50 PM
of course...there is no doubt about that

Nicolás89
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:51 PM
tipycall serena fans thread she has one excellent tournament and a very 02-03 type of match again sharapova and serena is on form now, wait to her next tournaments to see if she is on form or not, and please soon or later she will lose to bammer again (maybe sooner than we think):wavey:

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:58 PM
I will put my shield up because this is going nowhere. so in other words this thread is useless and so please non serena lovers don't post here.

Its okay. It hard to shield against logic.

SJW
Feb 3rd, 2007, 05:02 PM
Agreed. But I've thought that for about 6 years now :D

MCM
Feb 3rd, 2007, 05:11 PM
What makes you think Serena was in-form. If Ree was in-form she wouldn't
have lost. And It was on clay. And didn't Serena come back and beat Henin, on clay, a week or two later in Rome, on clay.

Serena has beaten Henin on all surfaces, Henin has not. Henin has won
only on clay.

I think the 2002 Berlin final was the best match Justine ever played against Serena. I don't believe either player was at their best level at the 2003 FO SF. In my opinion, if Justine ever beat Serena at her best (and this is a sticky question) it would have been the 2002 Berlin final. Granted it has been a long time since I saw it, but I remember that being very high quality, followed by another high quality final which went to Serena in Rome the next week.

rottweily
Feb 3rd, 2007, 05:15 PM
Its okay. It hard to shield against logic.

No, it's hard to reason with people deprived from any logic.

harloo
Feb 3rd, 2007, 05:28 PM
Even on her worst surface she's very tough to beat, but if you're going to defeat an in-form Serena it's best to do it on clay. When she dominated this was the only surface she struggled on, but still managed to win some Tier 1 tourneys and the FO. If she improves anymore on clay it's lights out for the rest of the field.:)

Lulu.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 06:12 PM
at her best she is THE best :p

Pretty much

spencercarlos
Feb 3rd, 2007, 06:20 PM
This has been disscussed many times and I still stand by that I have never seen Serena loose when she is playing well :D . That cannot be said for some others players who play very good matches and just get outplayed. When Serena loses, it is usually becuase she makes 55+ errors so the opponent just has to get the ball back!
Even if she does that she lost the match period.

Don´t get me wrong i know how great Serena at her best is, but its very difficult to sustain that peak level for the Williams Sisters, either phisically or tecnically (Venus) something always comes up. This has been proved over the years since 2003.

We´ll see how the rest of the year goes for them.

iPatty
Feb 3rd, 2007, 06:21 PM
When Serena loses take a look at her UFE. Then realize what UFE mean.
Players just get the ball back and hope she misses.
Now look at her UFE against Pova. Only 11. Now look at the outcome
of that match. Nuff said.

are you serious?

when she lost to sharapova in wimbledon 2004, maria wasn't just "getting the ball back".

if you read my post instead of just spewing a response out of your ass, you would've seen that i already said that.

spencercarlos
Feb 3rd, 2007, 06:48 PM
serena is the best tennis player ever :) it's hard to argue with that. when she's on form and winning :). but when she looses, it's cos she's just not on form, or injuries.

why can't you guys get it?
How much Serena´s best could be/has been sustained over the years? 2 years at most? Sorry two years of domination of womens tennis is not enough to even qualify among the best top 5 ever. Period.

Serena is still a long way to get there. If she´s so above the rest of the field why then at her middle of her carreer she was only 8 grand slams? or why she only has won 2 GS only in almost 4 years?. You seem to forget that at 19 Seles already had 8 grand slams for example.

Sorry there is a long way to go for Serena still to be considered the best ever, even emulating her success so far, she does not make it.

Will Serena win 8 more grand slams from now on? Hmm We´ll see.

DavidEllul
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:13 PM
She's done it before :)


that's absurd. justine was no where near her peak in 2002:tape:

Jakeev
Feb 3rd, 2007, 07:44 PM
What makes deadly when she is spot on is that she pounces on the first strike and the ball comes at you like a locomotive. Don't care what player it is; Maria, Justine and even Venus, it's hard to return those types of balls with equal fury.

So yeah I agree, when Serena is on form from start to finish, you might as well pray she will start missing.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 3rd, 2007, 08:06 PM
I`m sorry but I don`t agree. I can`t see whatever Serena (super mega top in form) beating peak Justine on clay ;)

:secret: 2002 Rome final, in straight sets by the way, only 1 of Justine's wins over Serena was in straights ;), just thought you should know.

-VSR-
Feb 3rd, 2007, 08:30 PM
SERENA IS THE BEST AND WILL KILL YOUR FAVES, BITCHES! :woohoo:

Complain all you want but it won't change the fact Serena is back!

Peace.

rjd1111
Feb 3rd, 2007, 08:34 PM
are you serious?

when she lost to sharapova in wimbledon 2004, maria wasn't just "getting the ball back".

if you read my post instead of just spewing a response out of your ass, you would've seen that i already said that.


Why do you people take everything so literally. Pova won that wimby
final. Kim beat her in that YEC final also. There are a few others.
But the vast majority of their losses were because they had a lot
of UFE and first Serve % is low. Lindsay beat Venus in a match
a couple of years ago where Venus had 72 UFEs The score was
7-6 5-7 7-6. Two less errors at the right time she would have won.

The book on the Sisters for years has been to keep the ball in play,
provoke long rallies, and you will win points on their errors.

This is the post you were responding to:

." That cannot be said for some others players who play very good matches and just get outplayed. When Serena loses, it is usually becuase she makes 55+ errors so the opponent just has to get the ball back!"

Notice the poster said "usually". Not saying it happened everytime
either.

Incidently I just went back to that match in 04' and Serena lost the 1st
set handily. But near the end of the 2nd set Serena had 2 back to back
UFEs that let Maria go up 5-4. And 3 in the final game.

" Serena volleyed the next piont into the net, and on break point Serena
slipped on the turf, hitting an error wide. It was 5-4 Maria. After falling
behind 0-15, Maria hit her 2nd ace of the day while serving for the match.
A couple of errors by Serena took her to 40-15. After Maria hit the first
Match point wide, Serena hit the 2nd match point into the net."

Serena has lost the first set in a lot of matches and came back.
1-6 to Petrova but pulled out a close 2nd set.
Who knows what would have happened had she not slipped.

While Maria was not "just getting the ball back" it still came down to
UFE.
Maybe you should heed your last statement

RR-87
Feb 3rd, 2007, 08:35 PM
i think Justine beat her on clay even Serena is on form :shrug:

Andy.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 08:36 PM
At her very best which she was pretty much close too or even on at the AO final she is unbeatable.

DavidEllul
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:22 PM
:secret: 2002 Rome final, in straight sets by the way, only 1 of Justine's wins over Serena was in straights ;), just thought you should know.


Then what:confused:

The question is, "if both on their top forms, can serena beat justine on clay?" And you answered yes, the proof was "serena did beat justine in 2002 Rome final 7:5 7:6" That means you thought justine already has reached her peak in 2002...:lol: This is sooooooo lame. She didn't even have a single slam yet at that moment. And she was like no.4 or no.5 in the world. Her best performance in majors the whole year was Wimbledon SF. So you call that her peak ? :tape: :help: Do you need some help or what?

DavidEllul
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:31 PM
Ok then, if this is what some ppl want to hear:


Serena is the greatest player ever on : Grass / Clay / Hardcourt / Carpet


End of story :)

<!Society!>
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:52 PM
Serena is in good form for sure. :yeah: But she is still beatable player. Actually to be honest Petrova and Shahar Peer got close to beating them. Petrova choked in the second set when serving for the match at 5-3. Peer also served for the match in the third at 6-5. So judging by that she still a beatable player.

judging by what?

your talking about 2 girls who have played most of last seasoon compared to serenas limited tournaments, your also talking about 2 girls who were well above serenas ranking, and like you said, 2 girls who ALMOST came close to beating her.

but guess what, they never. so i dont see how you can arrive at your judgement from players ALMOST beating her.

Viktymise
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:54 PM
Venus at her best on grass can do it ;)

trufanjay
Feb 3rd, 2007, 09:58 PM
Venus at her best on grass can do it ;)
I may have to agree with that.

VS Fan
Feb 3rd, 2007, 10:12 PM
Well, on-form Serena only occurs rarely.

I am talking about when she is "on" for the entire match.

I have seen it only six or seven times.
The most recent was the AO 2007 final.
She was NOT on-form in the preveious six matches at the AO.
(flashes of brillance, but not "on form")

Others: ("on form")

Wimbledon 2004 QF vs Jennifer 6-1, 6,1
Roland Garros 2003 QF vs Maresmo 6-1, 6-1
NASDAQ 2002 SF vs Venus 6-?, 6-?
US Open 2001 SF vs Martina 6-?, 6-?
Wimbledon 2000 QF vs Lisa Raymond 6-?, 6-?

I know I am leaving some good ones out, but these "zone" games are rare, but beautiful when they occur.

cnelson575
Feb 3rd, 2007, 10:25 PM
This is sorta subjective. Its been rare to me to see 2 champion players play each other both in top form. I think there are a handful of active players that you could say if in form at there best there not going to be beat

trufanjay
Feb 3rd, 2007, 10:48 PM
This is sorta subjective. Its been rare to me to see 2 champion players play each other both in top form. I think there are a handful of active players that you could say if in form at there best there not going to be beat
I find that interesting because how can more than one player be unbeatable at their best? I can't say that oh Lindsay is unbeatable on form and Justine is unbeatable on form because what if they play each other and they're both on form? But then again you said that the instance in which two champions play each other at their best is rare and I think most people can agree with that. But I guess from then on you would have to speculate and go with who you think is more talented right?

piercerocks
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:26 PM
anyone on a given day could beat anyone.

VS Fan
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:39 PM
Well an "in-form" Venus played an "in-form" Lindsay at Wimbledon 2005.

Venus squeaked out a win, but Lindsay had a match point.
This match could have gone either way. (I feel sorry for Lindsay)

Conclusion: When two top players meet and are both "in-form", this would be the type of match to expect!

If only we could be so lucky more often!!

trufanjay
Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:55 PM
Well an "in-form" Venus played an "in-form" Lindsay at Wimbledon 2005.

Venus squeaked out a win, but Lindsay had a match point.
This match could have gone either way. (I feel sorry for Lindsay)

Conclusion: When two top players meet and are both "in-form", this would be the type of match to expect!

If only we could be so lucky more often!!
I agree.

rjd1111
Feb 4th, 2007, 05:59 AM
that's absurd. justine was no where near her peak in 2002:tape:


Okay. The Williams Sisters were winning all the Slams. Serena had knee surgury and Venus had an Ab tear and were out 8 and 6 months.

For some reason that is when Juicy reached her peak and won a cpl of

Slams. Very Mysterious. Coincidence I guess.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 4th, 2007, 06:40 AM
:scratch: VERY Mysterious ;) :lol:

But credit to JH for taking the opportunity though :yeah:

floco
Feb 4th, 2007, 08:41 AM
so...you are a hater and troll ;) :lol:

:help: This board is insane... People get called trolls because they express their opinion, without any hate like Pigam just did.:rolleyes:
Posters like you are a shame for this board. Stay on Serena's website if u are too afraid to hear other opinions.

floco
Feb 4th, 2007, 08:44 AM
This has been disscussed many times and I still stand by that I have never seen Serena loose when she is playing well :D . That cannot be said for some others players who play very good matches and just get outplayed. When Serena loses, it is usually becuase she makes 55+ errors so the opponent just has to get the ball back!

Most of the time, when a player - even Serena the Great - makes tons of errors, there's a reason: the opponent's game.... YES, sometimes, Serena's opponents DO play well and make her play bad, even though she cant admit it.

DavidEllul
Feb 4th, 2007, 08:58 AM
Okay. The Williams Sisters were winning all the Slams. Serena had knee surgury and Venus had an Ab tear and were out 8 and 6 months.

For some reason that is when Juicy reached her peak and won a cpl of

Slams. Very Mysterious. Coincidence I guess.


Oh god. the same old argument, once again :tape: Why can't u Williams Fans just create sth new, sth original and more convictive ?

So I can also say SW started to win a cpl of slams right after Steffi retired, I think this also makes sense doesn't it? :devil: Very Mysterious. Coincidence I guess.:lol: :lol:

hwanmig
Feb 4th, 2007, 09:20 AM
Serena Williams on form is unbeatable ,who agrees?

Serena, her fans and others who secretly admire her. Serena is no Federer sorry

bandabou
Feb 4th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Hmmm...maybe in 2002-2003. Not getting carried away. Her first title in 2 years and some fans are acting like she's the best player in the world again.

lecciones
Feb 4th, 2007, 09:48 AM
Most of the time, when a player - even Serena the Great - makes tons of errors, there's a reason: the opponent's game.... YES, sometimes, Serena's opponents DO play well and make her play bad, even though she cant admit it.


They will never admit that, I haven't watched a match where they lost and just said that the opponent was better, it was always something to do with how bad they played that day. Many champions out there dont hesitate as much when credit is due.

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 01:27 AM
:scratch: VERY Mysterious ;) :lol:

But credit to JH for taking the opportunity though :yeah:

Of course. She did what anyone would do.

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 01:42 AM
Oh god. the same old argument, once again :tape: Why can't u Williams Fans just create sth new, sth original and more convictive ?

So I can also say SW started to win a cpl of slams right after Steffi retired, I think this also makes sense doesn't it? :devil: Very Mysterious. Coincidence I guess.:lol: :lol:


No! Did somebody make Stefi Retire? She Chose to retire.
It seemed to me, Since Stef was still playing well that she saw this
Hard Hitting determined 17 year old, along with her Sister, coming
into their own and decided to Git out while the Gittin was good.

Venus and Serena didn't ask to be injured. And it wasn't right after
Graf retired (exept for USO 99'). Serena Slam was a couple of years later.

ZListCelebrity
Feb 5th, 2007, 01:49 AM
I remember Mary Pierce blowing an in form Serena out of the court.

tennisbum79
Feb 5th, 2007, 01:53 AM
2004 Wimbledon/YEC Semifinals?

1999 US Open Final :shrug:


2000 Wimbledon QF/US Open SF? :shrug:

Exactly!

It is hard to beat Serena and Venus when in form, whereas these
other players can be beaten by the two sisters both palyers are in form.

pengluv
Feb 5th, 2007, 01:57 AM
Ummm at serena's best i dont really think anyone can beat her.. which is in fact proven... but umm to the other haters that uhh say any player with topspin can be undefeatable at the best so ummm camille pin at her best can win a grandslam too rite? or mayb tian tian sun!!! wait!!! anna kounrikova can win one at her best too!

DemWilliamsGulls
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:02 AM
No Venus is the only person who can beat Serena in top form...to me when Venus is in top form nobody can beat her.

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:05 AM
I remember Mary Pierce blowing an in form Serena out of the court.
I remember a #304 ranked Serena blowing a #7 ranked Pierce off of the court too :wavey:

vogus
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:34 AM
obviously Serena even on her best form could be beaten by most male pro's.

So the answer to the thread is no.

ZListCelebrity
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:39 AM
I remember a #304 ranked Serena blowing a #7 ranked Pierce off of the court too :wavey:

Serena after match told that there was nothing she could do because Mary was painting the lines and corners. Go and figure. :rolleyes:

starin
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:43 AM
mary pierce when on form is a scary sight. But mary practically just goes for the lines all the times. When she's on, I think maybe she's unbeatable. But iono, I would love see Mary Pierce vs Serena or Venus with both players playing they're best tennis.

Got a little taste of that during the second set Wimbledon QF (Venus/Pierce) It was amazing stuff. Also, whene Sprem is playing well... I think she could beat anyone.

ZListCelebrity
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:55 AM
obviously Serena even on her best form could be beaten by most male pro's.

So the answer to the thread is no.

I'm sure her daddy will disagree and take some of your money to prove ;)

plantman
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:02 AM
Ummm at serena's best i dont really think anyone can beat her.. which is in fact proven... but umm to the other haters that uhh say any player with topspin can be undefeatable at the best so ummm camille pin at her best can win a grandslam too rite? or mayb tian tian sun!!! wait!!! anna kounrikova can win one at her best too!

umm, uhh..............Alot of players playing at their best could win a slam!

-VSR-
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:15 AM
umm, uhh..............Alot of players playing at their best could win a slam!

Oh my, look who I found. :lol: ;)

plantman
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:19 AM
Oh my, look who I found. :lol: ;)

It's not suprising VSR............After all you're stalking me!:kiss:

-VSR-
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:27 AM
It's not suprising VSR............After all you're stalking me!:kiss:

Doesn't take much. I stick to the threads about my faves.

plantman
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:34 AM
Doesn't take much. I stick to the threads about my faves.

Now that's not all truth and you know it! You can't pass yourself off as an :angel: Things could come back to haunt you!:)

-VSR-
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:37 AM
Now that's not all truth and you know it! You can't pass yourself off as an :angel: Things could come back to haunt you!:)

Speaking of?

SAEKeithSerena
Feb 5th, 2007, 06:09 AM
she definitely is...without a doubt.

Mr.Kardashian
Feb 5th, 2007, 06:20 AM
in my (arguable) opinion serena is one of the greatest players in the history of the game. at her best she is unbeatable

Kworb
Feb 5th, 2007, 06:57 AM
No one is unbeatable. Tennis is way more complicated than counting winners and unforced errors. Just because Serena was given the opportunity to outplay Maria in the final, doesn't mean she would've dominated in a similar manner against Justine or Kim or Martina or whoever. The way you hit the ball is only half of the equation, the way it is returned is just as important.

pav
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Beware of overconfident crowing, as many a rooster could tell you if only they could come back. Serena never ever has been beaten by a fellow player ,only herself.

MistyGrey
Feb 5th, 2007, 10:20 AM
I remember a #304 ranked Serena blowing a #7 ranked Pierce off of the court too :wavey:

7-6,6-3 is hardly blowing someone off the courtspecially when the # 7 ranked player was coming back from injury. The only time Serena blew Mary off the court was at RG02, but there she was ranked #3 and Mary was 132nd. :wavey:

MistyGrey
Feb 5th, 2007, 10:25 AM
Serena after match told that there was nothing she could do because Mary was painting the lines and corners. Go and figure. :rolleyes:

Serena also said that was the best she had seen Mary play and the she was gonna win the event. That was such a good match for me, got my hopes very high, and then Mary lost to hingis 6-4,6-2 in the next round :tape: :lol:

MistyGrey
Feb 5th, 2007, 10:27 AM
No! Did somebody make Stefi Retire? She Chose to retire.
It seemed to me, Since Stef was still playing well that she saw this
Hard Hitting determined 17 year old, along with her Sister, coming
into their own and decided to Git out while the Gittin was good.


:bs: What a load of crap :lol: the same hardhitting 17 year old, and her 19 year old sister for that matter, who never managed to win a GS when Stef was in the draw. Maybe here mere presence was enough to shake that determination :tape::tape:



:lol:

Petersmiler
Feb 5th, 2007, 10:34 AM
Oh God. I really thought these days had passed.

I was thrilled to see Serena winning the AO. I admit that I didn't think she stood a chance, and I'm glad that I had to eat my own words, the winners speach was enough to do that for me.

I am also excited at the prospect of seeing her compete during the upcoming year. I cannot wait for the next match against Justine.

However, I just don't understand the mentality of her fans. You make a thread in GM about how good you think she is, and then you pretty much try and force everyone to agree. If anyone so much as mentions another player you churn out the same old H2H's you've been quoting since they began playing, carefully ignoring any losses that occured.

Your argument can be used with any player:

EG:
All of Justine's losses to Serena came while she was not at her best. The times she beat Serena, she was at her best and unbeatable. You cannot argue with it, the same as your argument cannot be countered because it's subjective.

Please, for the sake of the boards sanity, if you want to make this type of thread, put it in the player forums. That way, you won't have to read the posts from so-called 'haters' and keep typing the same old arguments time and time again.

You'll be happy because the thread will only state how good she is, and the board will be happy because we won't have to keep reading the same tired old story!

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 02:03 PM
:bs: What a load of crap :lol: the same hardhitting 17 year old, and her 19 year old sister for that matter, who never managed to win a GS when Stef was in the draw. Maybe here mere presence was enough to shake that determination :tape::tape:



:lol:

Venus
Graf leads 3-2
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
192 / -- 1996 LOS ANGELES HARD (O) R16 S. GRAF 6-4 6-4 1 / 1
5 / 4 1999 SYDNEY HARD (O) Q S. GRAF 4-6 6-2 6-4 10 / 6
6 / 2 1999 HANNOVER CARPET (I) S V. WILLIAMS 6-3 3-6 6-3 7 / 3
6 / 6 1999 MIAMI HARD (O) S V. WILLIAMS 6-2 6-4 7 / 7
5 / 6 1999 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) Q S. GRAF 6-2 3-6 6-4 3 / 2

Serena
Tied at 1 - 1
Rnk/Seed Year Event Surface Rnd Winner Score Rnk/Seed
22 / -- 1999 SYDNEY HARD (O) R16 S. GRAF 6-2 3-6 7-5 10 / 6
21 / -- 1999 INDIAN WELLS HARD (O) F S. WILLIAMS 6-3 3-6 7-5 7 / 5

Seems like they were pretty evenly matched when they played.
That event in 96' Vee was #192 and just starting. Other than that one
they were even. But Graf could see that the Sisters were getting better
knew what they would be like in a couple more years. So she got out.

They couldn't win GS with her in the draw if she wasn't in the draw.
All she had to do is stick around and she would have gotten the same
treatment the other players got.

MistyGrey
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:01 PM
could'ves,should'ves,ifs,might haves...
All speculation. You can speculate all you want, but the fact is they never won with Steffi in the draw. PERIOD :lol: We dont know if they would have beaten her is a GS or not. What we do know is they NEVER won a slam with Steffi around. Talk about being intimidated ;)

:lol:

MistyGrey
Feb 5th, 2007, 03:02 PM
And not to mention, Steffi was almost 30 in those matches, with a reconstructed knee. I shudder to think what she would've done if she hadnt been injured!
;)

:lol:

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 04:30 PM
And not to mention, Steffi was almost 30 in those matches, with a reconstructed knee. I shudder to think what she would've done if she hadnt been injured!
;)

:lol:

Yes she was 30. With 22 slams under her belt and all that experience.
And both matches with young inexperinced Serena went 3 sets.
Graf beat Venus one in str8s and Venus beat her two yrs later in Str8s
their others were also 3 setters.

What if Serena had not had HER Knee Surgery. She was #1 and winning
every slam when she went out.

Venus was also out for 6 months, at the same time as Rena, missing
2 slams that she was odds on favored to win W/O serena in the mix.

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 04:39 PM
could'ves,should'ves,ifs,might haves...
All speculation. You can speculate all you want, but the fact is they never won with Steffi in the draw. PERIOD :lol: We dont know if they would have beaten her is a GS or not. What we do know is they NEVER won a slam with Steffi around. Talk about being intimidated ;)

:lol:

Of course Stefi was intimidated. Thats why she wasn't around when
The Sisters started winning Slams.

LDVTennis
Feb 5th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Of course Stefi was intimidated. Thats why she wasn't around when
The Sisters started winning Slams.

What a load of BS.

Graf at her peak was truly unbeatable.

The only time Steffi played either of the sisters at or near her peak was in 1996 in Los Angeles. She beat Venus. I was at that match and at that tournament. Steffi hardly played well. Indeed, she would lose the final to Davenport. That's as close in time as any of the sisters got to playing Steffi at her best.

By 1999, Steffi was really struggling with all kinds of niggling injuries after coming back from reconstructive knee surgery the year before. There was also a crisis of confidence going on. She wasn't training as much as she had in her early years and for Steffi, despite the appearance she always gave of being 100% ready to play, that had always been the source of her confidence.

Despite all that, Steffi still manages to play one spectacular set against Venus at the 1999 Wimbledon. Given how Steffi responded at the end, it was very clear that Steffi wanted to make a statement that would show for all time how she compared to the W sisters.

Years from now, the video footage of the third set of the '99 QF vs. Venus will still show how Steffi moved faster than Venus, how Steffi outsmarted Venus at crucial points, how Steffi's forehand could hit outright winners against even the best defense, and how Steffi had more game than Venus. The running chip lob over a flatfooted Venus at the net, what a spectacular shot!

To think, at Steffi's peak she always played like that. Will the same ever be said of either W sister?

plantman
Feb 5th, 2007, 05:26 PM
Oh God. I really thought these days had passed.

I was thrilled to see Serena winning the AO. I admit that I didn't think she stood a chance, and I'm glad that I had to eat my own words, the winners speach was enough to do that for me.

I am also excited at the prospect of seeing her compete during the upcoming year. I cannot wait for the next match against Justine.

However, I just don't understand the mentality of her fans. You make a thread in GM about how good you think she is, and then you pretty much try and force everyone to agree. If anyone so much as mentions another player you churn out the same old H2H's you've been quoting since they began playing, carefully ignoring any losses that occured.

Your argument can be used with any player:

EG:
All of Justine's losses to Serena came while she was not at her best. The times she beat Serena, she was at her best and unbeatable. You cannot argue with it, the same as your argument cannot be countered because it's subjective.

Please, for the sake of the boards sanity, if you want to make this type of thread, put it in the player forums. That way, you won't have to read the posts from so-called 'haters' and keep typing the same old arguments time and time again.

You'll be happy because the thread will only state how good she is, and the board will be happy because we won't have to keep reading the same tired old story!

AMEN:)

serenafan08
Feb 5th, 2007, 06:34 PM
All of Justine's losses to Serena came while she was not at her best. The times she beat Serena, she was at her best and unbeatable. You cannot argue with it, the same as your argument cannot be countered because it's subjective.

:bs: Justine has only beaten Serena on clay (twice), and has NEVER taken a set off of Serena on a different surface. So if I'm reading this right - since you say that Justine was never at her best when she lost to Serena - the only time she's at her best is when she plays on clay during April and May? And you don't understand our mentality? :rolleyes: When Justine can beat Serena on a different surface, then you have an argument.

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:00 PM
I think that of the current players, Serena is almost unbeatable when she's playing at or near her peak--but there are other factors such as court surface, etc.

For example, JH on clay could, I think, hang with Serena pretty well. She just matches up with her real well on clay. Any other surface, I think Serena wins.

Vee, I think, could give Ree fits on grass if she was healthy (physically and headwise). I know the sisters tend to not play well against each other, but on paper Vee's got a grass court game that is hard to beat when she's on. I think this is also TOB's only chance to take Ree out. Short points help to minimize TOB's weaknesses against Ree, and she's probably the only woman on tour who can trade forehands with an in-form Serena.

On hard courts, I think that Clijsters would have a chance--not a great one, but a chance, again assuming she's healthy and playing well. And it's not a Slam.

I'm not saying Serena can't win these matchups, or even that she doesn't win most of the time against these players. I'm just saying they aren't automatic wins even if she's playing well.

And I'd probably go with Dementieva if they're playing chess. But it'd be close.

Helen Lawson
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:04 PM
Yes, this is true, but it's true for a lot of the girls on the tour. I'd say probably 10-20 girls on the tour, when they're on form, they are unbeatable. That's no uncommon in sports, that's how a lower ranked girl beats a higher one. The key to Serena that sets her apart is twofold. First, Serena can be *close to* unbeatable when she's playing at a lot less than 100%. Not so for the other girls. Second, Serena can be on form a lot more often than the other girls, I'm not sure this is mental or what, but like Lena D has played some devastatingly dominant matches, but it's only a couple a year. Serena can play 10 of these a year.

vogus
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM
:bs: Justine has only beaten Serena on clay (twice), and has NEVER taken a set off of Serena on a different surface. So if I'm reading this right - since you say that Justine was never at her best when she lost to Serena - the only time she's at her best is when she plays on clay during April and May? And you don't understand our mentality? :rolleyes: When Justine can beat Serena on a different surface, then you have an argument.


come on man. Justine and Serena haven't played each other in more than three and a half years. Their past record means little to nothing at this point. Whats the basis of this arguing, until they actually face each other again?

serenafan08
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:40 PM
come on man. Justine and Serena haven't played each other in more than three and a half years. Their past record means little to nothing at this point. Whats the basis of this arguing, until they actually face each other again?

True. I got caught up in the argument. I'll shut up (for now). :angel:

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 08:48 PM
What a load of BS.

Graf at her peak was truly unbeatable.

The only time Steffi played either of the sisters at or near her peak was in 1996 in Los Angeles. She beat Venus. I was at that match and at that tournament. Steffi hardly played well. Indeed, she would lose the final to Davenport. That's as close in time as any of the sisters got to playing Steffi at her best.

By 1999, Steffi was really struggling with all kinds of niggling injuries after coming back from reconstructive knee surgery the year before. There was also a crisis of confidence going on. She wasn't training as much as she had in her early years and for Steffi, despite the appearance she always gave of being 100% ready to play, that had always been the source of her confidence.

Despite all that, Steffi still manages to play one spectacular set against Venus at the 1999 Wimbledon. Given how Steffi responded at the end, it was very clear that Steffi wanted to make a statement that would show for all time how she compared to the W sisters.

Years from now, the video footage of the third set of the '99 QF vs. Venus will still show how Steffi moved faster than Venus, how Steffi outsmarted Venus at crucial points, how Steffi's forehand could hit outright winners against even the best defense, and how Steffi had more game than Venus. The running chip lob over a flatfooted Venus at the net, what a spectacular shot!

To think, at Steffi's peak she always played like that. Will the same ever be said of either W sister?

Venus was 16 yrs old and just starting to play. Ranked # 192 in the world.
still on limited schedule. How can you gloat about that.
But I guess when you are grasping at straws .............

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 09:02 PM
What a load of BS.

Graf at her peak was truly unbeatable.

The only time Steffi played either of the sisters at or near her peak was in 1996 in Los Angeles. She beat Venus. I was at that match and at that tournament. Steffi hardly played well. Indeed, she would lose the final to Davenport. That's as close in time as any of the sisters got to playing Steffi at her best.

By 1999, Steffi was really struggling with all kinds of niggling injuries after coming back from reconstructive knee surgery the year before. There was also a crisis of confidence going on. She wasn't training as much as she had in her early years and for Steffi, despite the appearance she always gave of being 100% ready to play, that had always been the source of her confidence.

Despite all that, Steffi still manages to play one spectacular set against Venus at the 1999 Wimbledon. Given how Steffi responded at the end, it was very clear that Steffi wanted to make a statement that would show for all time how she compared to the W sisters.

Years from now, the video footage of the third set of the '99 QF vs. Venus will still show how Steffi moved faster than Venus, how Steffi outsmarted Venus at crucial points, how Steffi's forehand could hit outright winners against even the best defense, and how Steffi had more game than Venus. The running chip lob over a flatfooted Venus at the net, what a spectacular shot!

To think, at Steffi's peak she always played like that. Will the same ever be said of either W sister?

You are on here gloating About a 28 yr old multiple Grand slam Champion
Beating a 16 yr old child just starting out and crowing about how badly
she beat that child really shows the depth of your character.
And the fact that that 16 yr old played her to 4-6 4-6 (won 8 games)
only helps prove my point.
And just two yrs later that 16 yr old reversed
that and beat her in str8s

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 5th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Nice post, but Vee was 18 in '99, but your point still holds.

Dawn Marie
Feb 5th, 2007, 09:33 PM
I think if she had no injuries and served and return well that she would win most of the matches.

I do think that anyone is beatable and yet some players control their destiny more so than others. Serena has loads of weapons.

I think Serena competes well and will add more slams. She's beatable and unbeatable. I want her to win more grandslams.

Whatzup
Feb 7th, 2007, 10:07 AM
Not unbeatable. She just has a great drive. She loves to be the underdog and proove people wrong who all think she's going to lose early. She wants to proove everybody wrong and that gives her just a great drive. Like the Aussie Open in 2005 and now in 2007. I could be possible that she will struggle again now, the drive can be gone. But I hope that she will have a great season. If she will go for it she can become world #1 again for sure.

Mina Vagante
Feb 7th, 2007, 10:59 AM
Not unbeatable. She just has a great drive. She loves to be the underdog and proove people wrong who all think she's going to lose early. She wants to proove everybody wrong and that gives her just a great drive. Like the Aussie Open in 2005 and now in 2007. I could be possible that she will struggle again now, the drive can be gone. But I hope that she will have a great season. If she will go for it she can become world #1 again for sure.

:p :)

bandabou
Feb 7th, 2007, 11:59 AM
Uhum...I think that's what makes Serena even harder to beat imo. When it gets personal for her, then all bets are off. Not gonna lose..no matter what.

Witness: her rivalry with Jennifer. After Serena blew that QF at wimby and Jen had things to say about Serena making excuses and stuff. Didn't lose to Jennifer for almost three years.

destroyed Justine after what happened at RG.

after '04, people were talking about how it was maria that became the new it girl..since, serena has probably given maria two of her most crushing defeats.

couldn't win '07..destroys no.1 seed 6-1 6-2..

moral: not a girl you want to have a vendetta with.

Ntour
Feb 7th, 2007, 12:22 PM
Bullshit, everybody in top 5 is unbeatable when in top top form. The fact is no such form exists.

agreed!
if they lost then they wouldn't be in their best form, would they?