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Chris 84
Jan 31st, 2007, 11:30 PM
As there are no properly written, definitive tie break rules within TT, I have discussed the matter with SloKid and have come up with what I hope to be adopted as the official TB rules. Obviously, anyone is perfectly welcome to give their opinions on what is proposed, and we will consider any criticism or potential improvements that TT players give us.

Proposed TB rules:

1/ There will be at least 2 tie break matches per round of TT in which the competitors predict the exact score of the match in progress. The purpose of the TB matches is to produce a winner when the scores are tied.

2/ TB1 is always the most important TB match, and TB2, TB3, etc are only ever used where TB1 does not produce a winner.

3/ The method of determining a winner based on the TB match is as follows:

- where player A has the correct winner of the match and player B does not, player A wins.

-where both players have the correct winner of the match, but player A has the correct set ratio and player B does not, then player A wins.

-where both players have the correct winner of the match and the correct set ratio, the player who is closest to the actual score wins.
eg, where a player has the score exactly right, they will always win, unless the other player also has the score exactly right. Predicting 2 sets exactly right is the next best thing to do, followed by predicting 2 sets right in the wrong order, followed by predicting 1 set exactly right, followed by predicting 1set in the wrong order. If none of this occurs, then the player who is closest to the actual score without correctly guessing any sets is the winner (eg Player A picks 6-3 6-3, player B picks 6-4 6-4, actual score is 7-6 7-6, then player B wins)

-in cases where players do guess a set correctly, then the player who is closest to the actual score should win (eg Player A picks 63 46 64, player B picks 63 46 62, actual score is 62 64, then player B wins as he was closer to the actual score in the match)

-in cases where the match finishes eg 6-1 6-1, and player A has picked 7-5 6-3 and player B picks 6-4 6-4, player B wins the match. Both players have given the loser 8 games, but because player B gave the winner the correct number of games, he wins.

-where both players have the incorrect winner of the match, the player who gives the most sets to the winning wta player will be the winner. Where both players give the same number of sets to the winning player, the player who gives the winning wta player the most number of games shall win.

4/ Where none of the above produces a winner, use TB2 and repeat the above process.


*TB rule changes*

- Set Ratios DO NOT count as points in themselves any more, but will still be used when there are less than 8 matches as the primary tie break method.
(eg there are 5 matches, and Chris 84 and meelis both get 4 correct winners each. The score is then 4-4, but we then compare correct SRs, and whoever has more correct wins)
The secondary TB method is then TB1.
Where there are 8 or more matches, SRs are not needed and the primary TB method remains TB1.

- where players get the wrong winner in TB1, it is no longer the case that the person who gives more games to the loser will win. However, if Player A gives a set to the winner, and Player B does not, then Player A wins)
If neither player has given a set to the winner, then move on to TB2 as the means of separating the players. If all TB matches are looked at and fail to produce a winner, the old method of TB will be used where the person who gives the winner the most games will win.

-There will now be 5 TB matches.

Chris 84
Jan 31st, 2007, 11:31 PM
I hope I have explained this well enough, but some of the rules here aren't so easy to explain, so if there are any questions, I will be happy to answer them, and I will use examples if necessary to show how it would work in practice :)

daniela86
Feb 1st, 2007, 12:57 AM
Chrissy :rocker: :worship: :bowdown: :bounce: Thank you,great explanation :D :kiss: You would be a nice professor I guess :p

gumoll
Feb 1st, 2007, 01:35 PM
now to sticky this thread :angel:

SloKid
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:48 PM
Or just add it to the Rules thread, when people agree with this change.

Chris 84
Feb 1st, 2007, 09:11 PM
Chrissy :rocker: :worship: :bowdown: :bounce: Thank you,great explanation :D :kiss: You would be a nice professor I guess :p

:lol: Thank you :hatoff: :)

Ben.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 07:26 AM
i have no complaints at all :) thanks :yeah:

gumoll
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:43 PM
and when a players send me such TB :

2-1 6-4 6-4???

I "see" only 6-4 6-4???


and when the match ends with a 6-4 6-4 and player A has 7-5 6-2 and player B 7-6 6-3???

who wins???

Chris 84
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:49 PM
and when a players send me such TB :

2-1 6-4 6-4???

I "see" only 6-4 6-4???

Yes.
If the poster has sent that scoreline, then the "2-1" part will determine how many points the poster gets, and the 6-4 6-4 part is what is used when a TB is necessary.


and when the match ends with a 6-4 6-4 and player A has 7-5 6-2 and player B 7-6 6-3???

who wins???

In my opinion, nobody wins when the scores look like that.
You use TB2 in that circumstance.

gumoll
Feb 2nd, 2007, 09:02 PM
thanks Chris :bigwave:

gumoll
Apr 22nd, 2007, 11:31 PM
Needed

DAVAJ MKirilenko
May 6th, 2007, 10:58 AM
If the score in a match is 6-3 6-3 and Player A predicted 6-2 6-2 and Player B predicted 6-4 6-4, will the TB be undecided then?

gumoll
May 6th, 2007, 01:27 PM
If the score in a match is 6-3 6-3 and Player A predicted 6-2 6-2 and Player B predicted 6-4 6-4, will the TB be undecided then?
yes

you have to see TB2 :)

DAVAJ MKirilenko
May 6th, 2007, 03:14 PM
yes

you have to see TB2 :)

Ok, thanks.

Chris 84
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:02 PM
I added this bit to the rules following the current dispute regarding Nadie v Forza Pennetta:

-in cases where players do guess a set correctly, then the player who is closest to the actual score should win (eg Player A picks 63 46 64, player B picks 63 46 62, actual score is 62 64, then player B wins as he was closer to the actual score in the match)


PLEASE NOTE - this is a new rule, so it does not relate to matches already played. In other words, Aleksz's decision will stand. The confusion about this match is not his fault, it is mine.

Chris 84
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:05 PM
Also note that the above alteration is a PROPOSAL and not a rule as yet. If people think that the rules should be different, then they are welcome to post their point of view. Clearly people like Aleksz and Tomek interpreted the rules in a different way from me, and perhaps people prefer that way.

It is up to you guys to let me know what you think is best.

FORZA SARITA
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:10 PM
I added this bit to the rules following the current dispute regarding Nadie v Forza Pennetta:

-in cases where players do guess a set correctly, then the player who is closest to the actual score should win (eg Player A picks 63 46 64, player B picks 63 46 62, actual score is 62 64, then player B wins as he was closer to the actual score in the match)


PLEASE NOTE - this is a new rule, so it does not relate to matches already played. In other words, Aleksz's decision will stand. The confusion about this match is not his fault, it is mine.

for me this rule was already ok :p

Chris 84
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:17 PM
for me this rule was already ok :p

Yeah, and for me too.....but clearly that wasn't the case for others :p

gumoll
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:18 PM
not good to change rules in end of a season :(

Chris 84
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:20 PM
not good to change rules in end of a season :(

I amn't trying to change anything, I am trying to clarify. I mean if I was in Aleksz's position, I'd have made FP win. Whereas you would have made Nadie win. The rule, therefore is ambiguous and needs to be clarified.

FORZA SARITA
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:21 PM
not good to change rules in end of a season :(

Chris didn't change nothing :lol: :tape:

gumoll
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:25 PM
I hope next year TB rules will be more profesional :)

Chris 84
Aug 21st, 2007, 09:29 PM
I hope next year TB rules will be more profesional :)

:lol: Me too.

I won't implement any changes that people don't want, but the rules can certainly be improved.

Aleksz
Aug 22nd, 2007, 12:41 PM
another interesting case today :devil:

RADWANSKA def. SUGIYAMA 76 36 64
radwanska 16 games - sugiyama 16 games


Chris 84 picked RADWANSKA 76 63
SloKid picked RADWANSKA 75 63
Nadie picked RADWANSKA 64 64
FORZA PENNETTA picked RADWANSKA 64 63
Chris predicted the first set exactly right...
both Nadia and Francesco predicted 2 sets right but not at the right place

Chris and Milan had 13 games to the winner - 9 + 8 to Sugiyama
Nadia and Francesco only 12 to Radwanska - 8 + 7 to Sugiyama

Chris and Milan should be the winners, but who knows... :p :lol:

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2007, 03:58 PM
this time i lose :p

Aleksz
Aug 22nd, 2007, 04:34 PM
http://i10.tinypic.com/6397vr9.jpg

not finished yet... but what do you think about this? :p

Rui.
Aug 22nd, 2007, 07:12 PM
http://i10.tinypic.com/6397vr9.jpg

not finished yet... but what do you think about this? :p

its good so keep working! :p

Uranus
Aug 22nd, 2007, 08:58 PM
Thanks, Chris! It was necessary and you did it well. :worship:

Answer to Aleksz:
imo Chris & Milan win. First set correct. I didn't know the 6-4 sets (Nadie & Fran) were worth anything, as it's not the correct set.

Chris 84
Aug 22nd, 2007, 09:01 PM
Thank you Aleksz :)

Rik.
Feb 29th, 2008, 07:05 PM
don't delete this again ;)

James
Mar 4th, 2008, 09:17 PM
It wasn't deleted. :shrug:

In The Zone
Mar 6th, 2008, 02:13 AM
James, maybe we can sticky this thread? It's very helpful.

In The Zone
Mar 7th, 2008, 08:01 PM
Thanks. :p

Chris 84
Jun 28th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Rule changes:

2/ TB rule changes

- Set Ratios DO NOT count as points in themselves any more, but will still be used when there are less than 8 matches as the primary tie break method.
(eg there are 5 matches, and Chris 84 and meelis both get 4 correct winners each. The score is then 4-4, but we then compare correct SRs, and whoever has more correct wins)
The secondary TB method is then TB1.
Where there are 8 or more matches, SRs are not needed and the primary TB method remains TB1.

- where players get the wrong winner in TB1, it is no longer the case that the person who gives more games to the loser will win. However, if Player A gives a set to the winner, and Player B does not, then Player A wins)
If neither player has given a set to the winner, then move on to TB2 as the means of separating the players. If all TB matches are looked at and fail to produce a winner, the old method of TB will be used where the person who gives the winner the most games will win.

-There will now be 5 TB matches.

Rik.
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Where both players have the right winner in TB1 but both no set's right. Do I have to go to TB2 then or just look which player is closer to the score? :wavey:

In The Zone
Jul 9th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Games. And if equal, then TB2. Still old method if the winners are the same.

LCS
Oct 3rd, 2008, 06:33 PM
I looked for it here but didn't find it. In the case of doubles, when there's a 4-pick-round (meaning we will have a total of 8 picks per team) do we use the SR if there's a tie, or do we go straight ahead and use the TBs?

Meelis
Oct 3rd, 2008, 06:43 PM
No set ratios, straight to TB1.