PDA

View Full Version : The Williams Sisters and Indian Wells


TAMUStud86
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:01 PM
Can someone please explain to me what happened with Venus and Serena and Indian Wells? Why do they boycott the tournament?

V-MAC
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Funny, I was just thinking about this tournament today actually and wondering if Vee and Serena will ever play there again. Anyway, what happened was Vee had to pull out of her semi-final with Serena due to injury. People were angry coz they thought it was a fix and also coz they thought it was unfair for Kim to play her semi when Serena got a free pass into the final. As a result, Serena got jeered like crazy during the final. The crowd were really pathetic :rolleyes:

sfselesfan
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Venus attended the final with Richard and they were called n***ers by some of the fans. I think that might have a lot to do with it too. Plus, with the way their bodies are, playing four weeks in a row right before clay season is difficult for them.

SF

LoveFifteen
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:16 PM
The Williams will NEVER play there again. Not even for $10 million.

jujufreak
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:17 PM
Can someone please explain to me what happened with Venus and Serena and Indian Wells? Why do they boycott the tournament?

The last time they participated was in 2001. The two sisters were supposed to meet each other in the semis, but Venus had to withdraw. Serena went through to the final and beat Kim Clijsters. The audience didn't appreciate Venus' withdrawal, you could say they were hostile towards Serena. The Williamses thought those spectators were racists (maybe someone can prove it with examples of their behaviour) and since then they don't play there anymore

Morrissey
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Its excellent that the Williams Sisters stand up to racism. They will not put up with that crap.

Becool
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:19 PM
God.. everytime someone pops this quetsion..

franny
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:37 PM
Venus withdrew from her match like ten minutes before they were supposed to play. That was like the most highly anticipated match of the tournament, everyone was so excited about it. It was wrong that she withdrew at the last minute. Like fans didn't even know until they were in their seats and they announced it.

However, the crowd was way out of control and out of hand. No one has the right to throw racial remarks at people, nor should they boo someone for an entire match. They even booed Venus and Richard just for walking down the stairs (Venus was visibly limping btw) the day of the final. Anyway, Serena won that match, which was pretty much a big F-You to the crowd, and then since then the Wililams have and will never play there again.

cellophane
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:39 PM
Its excellent that the Williams Sisters stand up to racism. They will not put up with that crap.

But why do we have to put up with your crap?

Pureracket
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:41 PM
Venus withdrew from her match like ten minutes before they were supposed to play. That was like the most highly anticipated match of the tournament, everyone was so excited about it. It was wrong that she withdrew at the last minute. Like fans didn't even know until they were in their seats and they announced it.

However, the crowd was way out of control and out of hand. No one has the right to throw racial remarks at people, nor should they boo someone for an entire match. They even booed Venus and Richard just for walking down the stairs (Venus was visibly limping btw) the day of the final. Anyway, Serena won that match, which was pretty much a big F-You to the crowd, and then since then the Wililams have and will never play there again.Correction: Venus had actually shown up 3 hours before her withdrawal to the tennis site in order to withdraw; however, the tournament doctor got there only 30 minutes before the match. They actually had her attempt to do calisthenics, and the doctors agreed that she was unfit for match play.

Pat McEnroe was getting ready to call that match, and I don't think he'll ever forgive Venus and Serena for that. He was on the air fuming.

sfselesfan
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:42 PM
But why do we have to put up with your crap?

Here we go again.

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg

SF

:inlove:
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:48 PM
No way is this thread up AGAIN.

The Daviator
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:52 PM
Serena's got two IW titles, she doesn't need to go back :)

The Dawntreader
Jan 30th, 2007, 08:59 PM
Yeah the sisters dont exactly need another controversial apperance at IW, Miami is always the week after so will play there. Enough big names to satisfy the crowds at IW:)

Viktymise
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:01 PM
They will never play there again and rightfully so, they have way too much self respect than to play there again :o

GracefulVenus
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Wow, never knew that happened. And I love Indian Wells, just hate that dumb commercial they play every 15 seconds!

KishG
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:06 PM
Pat McEnroe was getting ready to call that match, and I don't think he'll ever forgive Venus and Serena for that. He was on the air fuming.

What did he say?

sfselesfan
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Indian Wells has never been as prominent since. I'm waiting for the day it is downgraded to a tier II. They don't get the top players they used to. They should change the date to earlier in the season to move it away from a clearly superior Key Biscayne tournament.

SF

sfselesfan
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:08 PM
What did he say?

*crying* "...and I had to give up calling the Andy Roddick match for this!?!"

- - - He's such a pathetic @sshole!

SF

KishG
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:10 PM
Indian Wells has never been as prominent since. I'm waiting for the day it is downgraded to a tier II. They don't get the top players they used to. They should change the date to earlier in the season to move it away from a clearly superior Key Biscayne tournament.

SF

I remember the booing and I wasn't even into tennis at the time. It was disgusting to watch because, at that time, being a neutral observer, I thought it was pretty low-class to turn up to a final just to boo. And Serena was only a teenager at the time.

Speaking of which, has a tournament ever been downgraded?

sfselesfan
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:12 PM
I remember the booing and I wasn't even into tennis at the time. It was disgusting to watch because, at that time, being a neutral observer, I thought it was pretty low-class to turn up to a final just to boo. And Serena was only a teenager at the time.

Speaking of which, has a tournament ever been downgraded?

Not yet.

The longer Dubai grows in popularity and Key Biscayne's success continues...the more likely it gets.

SF

Volcana
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:47 PM
How the crowd treated them was readily apparent on the TV screen. I'm inclined to accept Venus' word about what some in the crowd said. However, a simple apology from the tournament director would have resolved this. None was then or now forthcoming. (In fairness to Charlie Pasarall, it was a scene out of a football match. Nothing like that has been seen in tennis outside of the worst of the Cold War era Davis Cup matches.)

However, the fact that the tour season is too long actually plays into this, potentially.

After Europe and the Middle East, the tour comes to the States, plays in Florida and South Carolina (A one hour flight) , then goes 3000 miles to California for Indian Wells, and comes back to Florida. A lot of the players, including V&S, live in Florida. So when they come back from Europe, they can basically be home for six weeks if they skip Indian Wells.

Lindsay Davenport began skipping Miami for roughly that same reason. She played Amelia Island, maybe Charleston, maybe not, then flew to California for Indian Wells, then stayed home for a month.

Amelia Mauresmo used to skip most if the US summer hardcourt season.

The players that can afford to take breaks from the tour, often do.

NOTE: I've actually seen Venus quoted as saying she might actually said once she might play there again one day.

NOTE: Indian Wells has drawn record crowds almost every year since that incident. But their TV ratings have been off, and since a lot of tournament revenue comes from ad sales to TV, the upshot is they're selling more tickets than ever, but making less money. Add to that a bad stadium deal (they got screwed by the ATP side of the equation) and financially it's not working for them.

Last year, they were seeking to have the city of Indian Wells help them with re-financing, but I don't know where that went.

All in all, a great example of how pro tennis has gone from being an elite sport to a niche sport in one generation.

Volcana
Jan 30th, 2007, 09:51 PM
Speaking of which, has a tournament ever been downgraded?Hamburg, I think, the year before it was cancelled, was downgraded to a III.

PLP
Jan 31st, 2007, 12:41 AM
How the crowd treated them was readily apparent on the TV screen. I'm inclined to accept Venus' word about what some in the crowd said. However, a simple apology from the tournament director would have resolved this. None was then or now forthcoming. (In fairness to Charlie Pasarall, it was a scene out of a football match. Nothing like that has been seen in tennis outside of the worst of the Cold War era Davis Cup matches.)

However, the fact that the tour season is too long actually plays into this, potentially.

After Europe and the Middle East, the tour comes to the States, plays in Florida and South Carolina (A one hour flight) , then goes 3000 miles to California for Indian Wells, and comes back to Florida. A lot of the players, including V&S, live in Florida. So when they come back from Europe, they can basically be home for six weeks if they skip Indian Wells.

Lindsay Davenport began skipping Miami for roughly that same reason. She played Amelia Island, maybe Charleston, maybe not, then flew to California for Indian Wells, then stayed home for a month.

Amelia Mauresmo used to skip most if the US summer hardcourt season.

The players that can afford to take breaks from the tour, often do.

NOTE: I've actually seen Venus quoted as saying she might actually said once she might play there again one day.

NOTE: Indian Wells has drawn record crowds almost every year since that incident. But their TV ratings have been off, and since a lot of tournament revenue comes from ad sales to TV, the upshot is they're selling more tickets than ever, but making less money. Add to that a bad stadium deal (they got screwed by the ATP side of the equation) and financially it's not working for them.

Last year, they were seeking to have the city of Indian Wells help them with re-financing, but I don't know where that went.

All in all, a great example of how pro tennis has gone from being an elite sport to a niche sport in one generation.

It would be great if one or both of them played there again and I am sure they would get a very warm reception.

Despite the fact that it was a terrible moment, I think the reason they have chosen to stay away has more to do with the difficult scheduling, right before Miami, a tournament that they both care about much more.

Dave.
Jan 31st, 2007, 12:53 AM
How the crowd treated them was readily apparent on the TV screen. I'm inclined to accept Venus' word about what some in the crowd said. However, a simple apology from the tournament director would have resolved this. None was then or now forthcoming. (In fairness to Charlie Pasarall, it was a scene out of a football match. Nothing like that has been seen in tennis outside of the worst of the Cold War era Davis Cup matches.)

However, the fact that the tour season is too long actually plays into this, potentially.

After Europe and the Middle East, the tour comes to the States, plays in Florida and South Carolina (A one hour flight) , then goes 3000 miles to California for Indian Wells, and comes back to Florida. A lot of the players, including V&S, live in Florida. So when they come back from Europe, they can basically be home for six weeks if they skip Indian Wells.

Lindsay Davenport began skipping Miami for roughly that same reason. She played Amelia Island, maybe Charleston, maybe not, then flew to California for Indian Wells, then stayed home for a month.

Amelia Mauresmo used to skip most if the US summer hardcourt season.

The players that can afford to take breaks from the tour, often do.

NOTE: I've actually seen Venus quoted as saying she might actually said once she might play there again one day.

NOTE: Indian Wells has drawn record crowds almost every year since that incident. But their TV ratings have been off, and since a lot of tournament revenue comes from ad sales to TV, the upshot is they're selling more tickets than ever, but making less money. Add to that a bad stadium deal (they got screwed by the ATP side of the equation) and financially it's not working for them.

Last year, they were seeking to have the city of Indian Wells help them with re-financing, but I don't know where that went.

All in all, a great example of how pro tennis has gone from being an elite sport to a niche sport in one generation.

No, Indian Wells-Miami comes before Amelia Island and Charleston/Hilton Head, always have done because they start off the claycourt season. But yer I get your point, Miami is right next to Amelia Island and Charleston so it is easier for everyone to travel.

I think that Indian Well has been one of the best tier 1's in it's recent years, but this year's entry is poor. They have been a tier 1 for just over a decade now, I think it's time to go back to tier 2 and perhaps have a tier 1 in Europe after the Pan Pacific.

LDVTennis
Jan 31st, 2007, 01:22 AM
Last year, they were seeking to have the city of Indian Wells help them with re-financing, but I don't know where that went.

Today, the tournament seems to be on sound financial footing. Last year, the city of Indian Wells worked out a deal with the tournament owners that included a trade of land around the tournament site for something like $150 million. That paid a major chunk of the outstanding loan on the stadium; the rest was refinanced at a more favorable rate. Also last year, the USTA became one of the principal owners of the tournament by buying out IMG's stake which was for sale.

I happened to be at Serena's last match at Indian Wells. I was in a box seat on the opposite side from where Venus and Richard sat.

When almost everyone started booing at Serena as she appeared on the court, I didn't know what was happening. I remember turning to the guy in the box next to us and asking him, what is happening? Mind you, he was booing too. He mentioned Venus' withdrawal from the semifinal the previous evening and the coverage in the local Palm Springs paper suggesting Richard had been behind the whole thing. It didn't seem rational to me, but here you had almost an entire stadium booing.

I thought that eventually it would stop. But, the booing continued as the match started. When I saw this, I frankly started to feel a bit offended myself. So, I started cheering for Serena as loud as I could, so loud that the guy next to me started to take it personally.

During the trophy ceremony, as Serena began to speak, the crowd booed again. In retrospect, I strongly think there was something more to it than the crowd's perception that they had been cheated out of a semifinal match between Serena/Venus. I mean, you really had to see the face of the guy in the box seat next to me. In a perverse way, I think he relished the opportunity to boo at Serena.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2007, 01:36 AM
I watched the match on TV, it was despicable.
They showed Venus and Richard coming in the stadium.
As they were walking down the staires, a bunch of middle aged men and women,
on both sides of stairs started hurling something that could only characterised insults,

Obviously I could not hear what they were saying, but by their facial
expression and gesturing, it was not difficult to tell they that they were not asking for autographs.

I think Clijsters was a little embarrassed when this continue during the match.
But one of the worse thing was, the talkative Pam Shriver went outof her way
to explain away the crowd behavior.
Of course, she and MJF did say later that is was going out of control.

But by that time, it was late.

plantman
Jan 31st, 2007, 01:55 AM
Indian Wells has never been as prominent since. I'm waiting for the day it is downgraded to a tier II. They don't get the top players they used to. They should change the date to earlier in the season to move it away from a clearly superior Key Biscayne tournament.

SF

Give it a rest already..........Who decided that its repute has diminished? You!:lol:

http://www.pacificlifeopen.com/

Volcana
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:09 AM
No, Indian Wells-Miami comes before Amelia Island and Charleston/Hilton Head, always have done because they start off the claycourt season. But yer I get your point, Miami is right next to Amelia Island and Charleston so it is easier for everyone to travel.Nothing like getting the most basic stuff wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.

Black Mamba.
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:13 AM
Rena's reaction after the win was priceless. She intentionally made gestures to the crowd to tick them off.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Volcana
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:17 AM
Today, the tournament seems to be on sound financial footing. Last year, the city of Indian Wells worked out a deal with the tournament owners that included a trade of land around the tournament site for something like $150 million. That paid a major chunk of the outstanding loan on the stadium; the rest was refinanced at a more favorable rate. Also last year, the USTA became one of the principal owners of the tournament by buying out IMG's stake which was for sale.It's good to hear that. When Scottsdale came before IW, both tournaments drew incredible fields. Having Doha before IW just rather inconvenient travel

I happened to be at Serena's last match at Indian Wells. I was in a box seat on the opposite side from where Venus and Richard sat.

*
*
*

In retrospect, I strongly think there was something more to it than the crowd's perception that they had been cheated out of a semifinal match between Serena/Venus. I mean, you really had to see the face of the guy in the box seat next to me. In a perverse way, I think he relished the opportunity to boo at Serena.Nice to hear from an eye-witness.

shanetrumpet
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:45 AM
Rena's reaction after the win was priceless. She intentionally made gestures to the crowd to tick them off.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here it is. http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=bz-F2ZJC07M

Black Mamba.
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:56 AM
Here it is. http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=bz-F2ZJC07M

Ya'll can't convince me she wasn't doing that on purpose :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stamp Paid
Jan 31st, 2007, 03:18 AM
How the crowd treated them was readily apparent on the TV screen. I'm inclined to accept Venus' word about what some in the crowd said. However, a simple apology from the tournament director would have resolved this. None was then or now forthcoming. (In fairness to Charlie Pasarall, it was a scene out of a football match. Nothing like that has been seen in tennis outside of the worst of the Cold War era Davis Cup matches.)

However, the fact that the tour season is too long actually plays into this, potentially.

After Europe and the Middle East, the tour comes to the States, plays in Florida and South Carolina (A one hour flight) , then goes 3000 miles to California for Indian Wells, and comes back to Florida. A lot of the players, including V&S, live in Florida. So when they come back from Europe, they can basically be home for six weeks if they skip Indian Wells.

Lindsay Davenport began skipping Miami for roughly that same reason. She played Amelia Island, maybe Charleston, maybe not, then flew to California for Indian Wells, then stayed home for a month.

Amelia Mauresmo used to skip most if the US summer hardcourt season.

The players that can afford to take breaks from the tour, often do.

NOTE: I've actually seen Venus quoted as saying she might actually said once she might play there again one day.

NOTE: Indian Wells has drawn record crowds almost every year since that incident. But their TV ratings have been off, and since a lot of tournament revenue comes from ad sales to TV, the upshot is they're selling more tickets than ever, but making less money. Add to that a bad stadium deal (they got screwed by the ATP side of the equation) and financially it's not working for them.

Last year, they were seeking to have the city of Indian Wells help them with re-financing, but I don't know where that went.

All in all, a great example of how pro tennis has gone from being an elite sport to a niche sport in one generation.

Venus said it would take, and I quote "an act of God" for her to play IW again.

If that means might, then :lol::lol::lol:

Asaph
Jan 31st, 2007, 03:45 AM
I saw that match. At the time, commentators and tennis players were popping off that Richard fix their matches bullshit. So when Venus retired this added fuel to the fire and gave people who hated them anyway to boo all the more. It was disgraceful. All the people who participated in that including other tennis players deserve to be forever ashamed of themselves. Contrary to Shriver, there was no excuse for that behavior. They did Kim cCisters no favor either. Think about, to be surround with such emotional hatred could not have been easy to tolerate, even if it was not directed at you. I don't blame them one bit for not going back.

bandabou
Jan 31st, 2007, 04:45 AM
Only think to regret is that Serena could have easily been record holder for most victories there by now.

sfselesfan
Jan 31st, 2007, 04:48 AM
Give it a rest already..........Who decided that its repute has diminished? You!:lol:

http://www.pacificlifeopen.com/

No, the fact that only a few top players actually enter each year.

Exhibit A: Last year's top five seeds were ranked 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13 :tape:

Exhibit B: Last year's NASDAQ top five seeds were ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7.

It's common sense...but then again, I don't think you would understand. Sorry 4 u...

SF

starin
Jan 31st, 2007, 05:51 AM
interesting. I know this questions comes up a lot but some of us don't really know that much about it. I wonder does anyone have clip of this match? The only other match where I can think of people booing like crazy is Serena/Henin FO '03. But that was more about nationalistic pride than anything else.

plantman
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:01 AM
No, the fact that only a few top players actually enter each year.

Exhibit A: Last year's top five seeds were ranked 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13 :tape:

Exhibit B: Last year's NASDAQ top five seeds were ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7.

It's common sense...but then again, I don't think you would understand. Sorry 4 u...

SF

:lol: :lol: .......You really need a dose of REALITY!!!
Your judgement means little to nothing on this board.....Sticky Fingers!

sfselesfan
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:03 AM
:lol: :lol: .......You really need a dose of REALITY!!!
Your judgement means little to nothing on this board.....Sticky Fingers!

Exhibit C: The Pot Calling the Kettle Black.

SF

plantman
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:06 AM
Exhibit C: The Pot Calling the Kettle Black.

SF

Lame!!!:p

Jeff
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:10 AM
Yes, this question always pops up and every time I will respond how sad it is that the tournament treated the sisters this way. Contrary to many who believe, there are many devoted fans that miss the sisters playing there, including myself who attend the tournament every year. Based on the bad behavior of that year's crowd, us fans suffer the consequences and it's a shame although luckily there is the Acura and JPMorgan of which I hope they attend this year. But I definetly don't blame them for their choice not to attend again, it's just a sad situation.

sfselesfan
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:11 AM
Lame!!!:p

Brilliant Comeback

http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0311361/images/You'%20re%20a%20Genius!!.gif

SF

hingisGOAT
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:17 AM
venus played out the crowd & she deserved the boos

any other pro athlete would have gotten those boos in any other sport.

however serena was not guilty and didn't deserve the harrassment

plantman
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:26 AM
Brilliant Comeback

http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0311361/images/You'%20re%20a%20Genius!!.gif

SF


Don't you have a wikipedia page to watch over?
It may be under ATTACK!!!

mila_mail
Jan 31st, 2007, 07:34 AM
i think serena should play, to show them she is the TRUE champion

franny
Jan 31st, 2007, 09:16 AM
Omg that reaction of Serena's was priceless!!! Homegirl just keeps showing people off. She's that good.

vettipooh
Jan 31st, 2007, 10:18 AM
The worst thing anyone can do, is piss Rena off during a tourny/match, with personal attacks. She usually comes out on top!!! That was an 'in your face... now boo, mf!' :lol:

pooh14
Jan 31st, 2007, 12:11 PM
i hope venus/serena leads the top players to boycott wimbledon if there is in-equal prize money again :D

Viktymise
Jan 31st, 2007, 12:41 PM
venus played out the crowd & she deserved the boos

any other pro athlete would have gotten those boos in any other sport.

however serena was not guilty and didn't deserve the harrassment

WTF how did Venus play out the crowd, she pulled out because she was injured :o its not like she did what Hingis did at the 99 RG, now that was fully deserved when some petulant brat decides to argue a line call when they are up a set and a break in a slam final :lol:

rjd1111
Jan 31st, 2007, 01:34 PM
Funny, I was just thinking about this tournament today actually and wondering if Vee and Serena will ever play there again. Anyway, what happened was Vee had to pull out of her semi-final with Serena due to injury. People were angry coz they thought it was a fix and also coz they thought it was unfair for Kim to play her semi when Serena got a free pass into the final. As a result, Serena got jeered like crazy during the final. The crowd were really pathetic :rolleyes:


The tournament has not done that well since the Sisters quit playing
there. There was talk of bankrupcy last year and IMG, I think, bailed
them out. They said they had record attendance but the TV coverage
was less than half of previous years. and thats where the big bucks are.
they didn't even show the first week year before last.

Since the Sisters quit going there and weren't really hurt by not going
there several other top players also stopped. The fact that Miami is the next
week doesn't help.

The Sisters were also upset that the officials didn't do anything to try
and stop what was going on at the time. Maybe thats why when Serena
had her " The Ball Was In " episode at the USO the tournament officials
were down on court immediately Apologizing to her.

eugreene2
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:19 PM
Good for them ... standing up for what is right! This is not the sixties, fifties or any year before that. No need to bow to white people.

sfselesfan
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:24 PM
Don't you have a wikipedia page to watch over?
It may be under ATTACK!!!

The only thing under attack is your glaring lack of tennis knowledge, wit and intellect.

SF

griffin
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:34 PM
This is not the sixties, fifties or any year before that. No need to bow to white people.

Are you really that clueless about the activism that went on in the fifties and sixties (or even before)? :lol:

I think it could be a very powerful statement made if they did play, but it's up to Venus and Serena whether or not they ever play there again, and under what circumstances, and I fully support their decision to boycott it.

Kart
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:48 PM
Threads like this one make me feel old because I remember this incident like it was not that long ago.

At any rate, I can't see any incentive for Venus and Serena to go back to Indian Wells.

Craigy
Jan 31st, 2007, 02:57 PM
Couldn't you use google? :o

Craigy
Jan 31st, 2007, 03:02 PM
i think serena should play, to show them she is the TRUE champion

We already know she is ;)

starin
Jan 31st, 2007, 03:07 PM
venus played out the crowd & she deserved the boos

any other pro athlete would have gotten those boos in any other sport.

however serena was not guilty and didn't deserve the harrassment

Just curious but what's so funny in your picture? I don't get it.

sfselesfan
Jan 31st, 2007, 03:38 PM
Just curious but what's so funny in your picture? I don't get it.

He finds his avatar humorous because Hingis won the match in the photo 6-1, 6-1 in the semis of the 2001 Aussie. It was a grudge win for Hingis because their two previous matches had been won by Venus...at Wimbledon and the US Open (both of which Venus went on to win). It was basically the final shining moment for Hingis...before she faded into obscurity. Note: Venus went on to beat her in straight sets every time they played until Hingis "retired."

SF

KishG
Jan 31st, 2007, 03:45 PM
He finds his avatar humorous because Hingis won the match in the photo 6-1, 6-1 in the semis of the 2001 Aussie. It was a grudge win for Hingis because their two previous matches had been won by Venus...at Wimbledon and the US Open (both of which Venus went on to win). It was basically the final shining moment for Hingis...before she faded into obscurity. Note: Venus went on to beat her in straight sets every time they played until Hingis "retired."

SF

I loved that Venus at that time! Last year Venus was just :o during her matches against Martina.

plantman
Jan 31st, 2007, 04:24 PM
The only thing under attack is your glaring lack of tennis knowledge, wit and intellect.

SF
'ATTACK" .........:lol: :lol:


I try not to complicate things when you're involved so as not to overwhelm that pebble sized brain of yours.

P.S. Your need to have people think you have SUPERIOR tennis knowledge, speaks volumns and only diminshes most of what you have to say!
Face it Sticky Fingers. most of what you have to say here is blatently false, misconstrued, borderline racially motivated........But hey, as long as MOST people can see that, the easier my job becomes!:p

CORIA01
Jan 31st, 2007, 04:49 PM
If the crowd said insults and were racists, I entirely do agree with the Williams Sisters. There are so many tournaments why go to this one if they were not respected!!!!

sfselesfan
Jan 31st, 2007, 05:11 PM
'borderline racially motivated

Feeling equivocal?

SF

Pureracket
Jan 31st, 2007, 05:45 PM
Just curious but what's so funny in your picture? I don't get it.
Trust me, it's another non-fan who makes it glaringly obvious that Serena is the focal point and the measuring stick for the WTA.

Pureracket
Jan 31st, 2007, 05:51 PM
'ATTACK" .........:lol: :lol:


I try not to complicate things when you're involved so as not to overwhelm that pebble sized brain of yours.

P.S. Your need to have people think you have SUPERIOR tennis knowledge, speaks volumns and only diminshes most of what you have to say!
Face it Sticky Fingers. most of what you have to say here is blatently false, misconstrued, borderline racially motivated........But hey, as long as MOST people can see that, the easier my job becomes!:pHmm. . .childish namecalling, obsession with Williams fans, preoccupation with diminishing the designer, poet, actress,8 TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMP, Serena Jameka Williams, unsolicitedly directing the board to other sites about the designer, poet, actress,8 TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMP, Serena Jameka Williams, Over 95% of the posts being about the Williams Sisters, starting a thread of your own about the Williams Sisters. . . .hmm.

The verdict is out, but you're raising eyebrows, "plantman.";)

Mrs. Peel
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:13 PM
Kim was disgusted and appalled by the crowd as well.

Mina Vagante
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:19 PM
great job, if i were a victim of racism i woudnt play there! even though its such a big tourney

GracefulVenus
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:28 PM
I love this tournament, but now that I know what they did to my V/S; they won't be getting my ratings anymore:mad:

iWill
Jan 31st, 2007, 06:29 PM
I wasnt a fan of tennis back when this happened but i do remember hearing about on some ESPN coverage show and i think whether or not Vee and Serena play this tournament is up to them to decide if they claim they felt any racism in the slightest bit then thats enough for them to justify not playing also this tourney to me goes down in caliber almost every year so i could care less if they played it or not

Viktymise
Jan 31st, 2007, 07:03 PM
He finds his avatar humorous because Hingis won the match in the photo 6-1, 6-1 in the semis of the 2001 Aussie. It was a grudge win for Hingis because their two previous matches had been won by Venus...at Wimbledon and the US Open (both of which Venus went on to win). It was basically the final shining moment for Hingis...before she faded into obscurity. Note: Venus went on to beat her in straight sets every time they played until Hingis "retired."

SF

I have an even better handshake between Venus and Martina after their USO 00 semi, now that one is lol :yeah:, Venus is the really classy champion unlike Martina. Just last year when Martina lost to Vee at Warsaw she barely looked at her when they shook hands, didn't say a work but when Vee lost to Martina in Rome, Martina was all smiles and Venus smiled back and congradulated her, Martina needs to take some notes :o

hingisGOAT
Jan 31st, 2007, 07:07 PM
I have an even better handshake between Venus and Martina after their USO 00 semi, now that one is lol :yeah:, Venus is the really classy champion unlike Martina. Just last year when Martina lost to Vee at Warsaw she barely looked at her when they shook hands, didn't say a work but when Vee lost to Martina in Rome, Martina was all smiles and Venus smiled back and congradulated her, Martina needs to take some notes :o

yeah, venus is the queen of fake smiles at the net and trash talking in the press room :tape: :weirdo:

FAKE as hell but that's what williams fans respect :bowdown:

Pureracket
Jan 31st, 2007, 07:09 PM
yeah, venus is the queen of fake smiles at the net and trash talking in the press room :tape: :weirdo:

FAKE as hell but that's what williams fans respect :bowdown:You live for these moments don't you? I can't wait for Hingis to become really relevant again if that makes you post here more.;)

PLP
Jan 31st, 2007, 07:14 PM
I have an even better handshake between Venus and Martina after their USO 00 semi, now that one is lol :yeah:, Venus is the really classy champion unlike Martina. Just last year when Martina lost to Vee at Warsaw she barely looked at her when they shook hands, didn't say a work but when Vee lost to Martina in Rome, Martina was all smiles and Venus smiled back and congradulated her, Martina needs to take some notes :o

I don't think either was smiling when they lost, :lol:

meyerpl
Jan 31st, 2007, 07:22 PM
Both Williams sisters are entitled to play or not play wherever they choose. If they were subjected to racial epithets and abusive behavior at Indian Wells I don't blame them for not playing there but I have mixed feelings about it. Can you imagine if Jackie Robinson had refused to play in ballparks where he received that sort of treatment? His major league career would have lasted about eight weeks. He was steadfast, showed superior character and eventually won hearts and minds. The Williams sisters were under no obligation but had an opportunity to do likewise at Indian Wells.

To a great extent, they already have in terms of the big picture. Incidentally, I don't see anything phony about either Venus' or Serena's gracious behavior at the net, both in victory and defeat.

griffin
Jan 31st, 2007, 08:07 PM
The key difference, though, is that there were no major league ballparks where Robinson could play without harassment. That's not true of Venus and Serena. There are plenty of places for them to demonstrate their skill that don't treat them with that kind of venom.

Keep in mind, too, that Serena didn't just walk away - she finished the match. Venus and Richard stayed to the end as well.

Volcana
Jan 31st, 2007, 08:12 PM
The only other match where I can think of people booing like crazy is Serena/Henin FO '03. But that was more about nationalistic pride than anything else.I though Henin was from Belgium?!?! :)

Actually, given the way the newsheads had been dissing France for opposing the oil war, boos for an American weren't terribly surprising. I don't recall how they treated Agassi, however.

Lulu.
Jan 31st, 2007, 08:47 PM
Serena's got two IW titles, she doesn't need to go back :)



Excatly

starin
Jan 31st, 2007, 09:08 PM
I don't think either was smiling when they lost, :lol:

lol...yeah both had embarrasing losses to each other last year. Hingis was up a set and a break and couldn't close a cramping Venus out. And Venus won the first set 60 and couldn't close hingis out.

starin
Jan 31st, 2007, 09:09 PM
I though Henin was from Belgium?!?! :)

Actually, given the way the newsheads had been dissing France for opposing the oil war, boos for an American weren't terribly surprising. I don't recall how they treated Agassi, however.

yeah Henin is from Belgium but she is from the French speaking half of Belgium. So she's like honorary French. lol.

Knizzle
Jan 31st, 2007, 09:16 PM
Venus withdrew from her match like ten minutes before they were supposed to play. That was like the most highly anticipated match of the tournament, everyone was so excited about it. It was wrong that she withdrew at the last minute. Like fans didn't even know until they were in their seats and they announced it.

However, the crowd was way out of control and out of hand. No one has the right to throw racial remarks at people, nor should they boo someone for an entire match. They even booed Venus and Richard just for walking down the stairs (Venus was visibly limping btw) the day of the final. Anyway, Serena won that match, which was pretty much a big F-You to the crowd, and then since then the Wililams have and will never play there again.
But the reason she withdrew that soon is because she was put through tests by the WTA doctors to make sure she really WAS too injured to play. And even if she withdrew after walking ON the court that had nothing to do with Serena.

plantman
Feb 1st, 2007, 01:34 AM
Hmm. . .childish namecalling, obsession with Williams fans, preoccupation with diminishing the designer, poet, actress,8 TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMP, Serena Jameka Williams, unsolicitedly directing the board to other sites about the designer, poet, actress,8 TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMP, Serena Jameka Williams, Over 95% of the posts being about the Williams Sisters, starting a thread of your own about the Williams Sisters. . . .hmm.

The verdict is out, but you're raising eyebrows, "plantman.";)

Enough of your drivell............Hypocrite!:wavey:

Lindsayfan32
Feb 1st, 2007, 07:13 AM
Yeah the sisters dont exactly need another controversial apperance at IW, Miami is always the week after so will play there. Enough big names to satisfy the crowds at IW:)

One problem with this thought. They have no choice but to play in Indian wells its now a mandatory tournament why they have two 10 tournaments in row players have to play beats me but its the rules. I can't stand both of them but they don't deserve being called ******s and all the crap they got over a tennis match.

SJW
Feb 1st, 2007, 09:11 AM
One problem with this thought. They have no choice but to play in Indian wells its now a mandatory tournament why they have two 10 tournaments in row players have to play beats me but its the rules. I can't stand both of them but they don't deserve being called ******s and all the crap they got over a tennis match.

IW is not mandatory.
Only the slams and Miami are :wavey:

Anyway IW doesn't need the WS and the WS don't need IW.
We go through this every damn year. They'll never play there and rightfully so.

markspot
Feb 1st, 2007, 10:35 AM
No, the fact that only a few top players actually enter each year.

Exhibit A: Last year's top five seeds were ranked 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13 :tape:

Exhibit B: Last year's NASDAQ top five seeds were ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7.

It's common sense...but then again, I don't think you would understand. Sorry 4 u...

SF

It proves nothing because
WTA made Miami mandatory last year.
I think they are considering making Indian Wells mandatory as well.
Then what?
Serena and Venus will have to participate, or get 0 points, non-replaceable by another tournament
But if they keep playing so few tournaments anyway, perhaps it is not that important

Viktymise
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:34 PM
yeah, venus is the queen of fake smiles at the net and trash talking in the press room :tape: :weirdo:

FAKE as hell but that's what williams fans respect :bowdown:

At least Venus can backup her trash talk these days unlike Martina

hingisGOAT
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:38 PM
At least Venus can backup her trash talk these days unlike Martina

:haha: yeah venus can back it up ... with some more losses to hingis :haha:

Viktymise
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:42 PM
:haha: yeah venus can back it up ... with some more losses to hingis :haha:

Yes because Hingis has won a slam in the past 2years right :scratch:

Infiniti2001
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:45 PM
:haha: yeah venus can back it up ... with some more losses to hingis :haha:

:smash: since that match in your pic, Venus has won 3 slams :lol: Not only that-- you fav had 5 when Venus had zero :rolleyes:

hingisGOAT
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:46 PM
Yes because Hingis has won a slam in the past 2years right :scratch:

2 years and counting... tick tock tick tock...

...i hope you videotaped all of those matches :tape: because i can think of one burnt-out player getting beaten left and right, injured, and on the verge of retirement -- and guess what, it ain't martina :secret:

Volcana
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:50 PM
It proves nothing because
WTA made Miami mandatory last year.
I think they are considering making Indian Wells mandatory as well.
Then what?
Serena and Venus will have to participate, or get 0 points, non-replaceable by another tournament
But if they keep playing so few tournaments anyway, perhaps it is not that importantExactly. Serena only plays 10-12 tournaments a year, so she's already getting what, FIVE zeroes?

Infiniti2001
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:51 PM
2 years and counting... tick tock tick tock...

..


2<7 :lol:

venus_rulez
Feb 1st, 2007, 03:56 PM
Yes because Hingis has won a slam in the past 2years right :scratch:


LoL. Don't even bother with him. Why? It's quite clear why he doesn't like either sister, Venus in particular, it's cause they're credited (along with supporting roles from Capriati, Davenport, and seemingly anyone with any power in their game) of running Hingis out of tennis into temporary retirement. He knows he's bitter, I know he's bitter, and we all do so don't even waste posting space on someone like him. As much as I dislike Hingis and think she was a punk for leaving when she couldn't cut it, I still think her stats and what she has accomplished are amazing and her and Venus have had some classic matches, where both have ended up winning and losing. Let's just leave it at that.

winone23
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:15 PM
2 years and counting... tick tock tick tock...

...i hope you videotaped all of those matches :tape: because i can think of one burnt-out player getting beaten left and right, injured, and on the verge of retirement -- and guess what, it ain't martina :secret:

Hingis won her last slam 8 years ago, yet your making fun of someone who won a slam less than 2 years ago. :weirdo: :weirdo: :weirdo: :weirdo: Pathetic!!!!!

sfselesfan
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:17 PM
It proves nothing because
WTA made Miami mandatory last year.
I think they are considering making Indian Wells mandatory as well.
Then what?
Serena and Venus will have to participate, or get 0 points, non-replaceable by another tournament
But if they keep playing so few tournaments anyway, perhaps it is not that important

I'm sure they're shaking in their Manolo Blahniks.

If they make IW mandatory there will be a revolt by the players. That would require the women to participate in a straight month of tennis. Say what you will, but there is a problem when tournaments like Dubai, Paris and Charleston draw better players than Indian Wells (which used to get the top players every year).

SF

winone23
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:20 PM
2<7 :lol:

change that 7 to 8 :lol: :lol: :lol:

plantman
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:30 PM
I'm sure they're shaking in their Manolo Blahniks.

If they make IW mandatory there will be a revolt by the players. That would require the women to participate in a straight month of tennis. Say what you will, but there is a problem when tournaments like Dubai, Paris and Charleston draw better players than Indian Wells (which used to get the top players every year).

SF

Your faulting badly at your endeavor to discredit this tournament!
Move on already....except defeat!!!!:lol: :lol:

plantman
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:36 PM
"Manolo Blahniks"

Nothing special but the NAME...........Buy the same type (look-a-like) at Wal-Mart for a fraction of the cost!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

2moretogo
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:36 PM
Like someone else said, WS don't need IW, and apparrently (though hard to see why with the ratings that WS pull in) IW doesn't need WS.

rjd1111
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:43 PM
How the crowd treated them was readily apparent on the TV screen. I'm inclined to accept Venus' word about what some in the crowd said. However, a simple apology from the tournament director would have resolved this. None was then or now forthcoming. (In fairness to Charlie Pasarall, it was a scene out of a football match. Nothing like that has been seen in tennis outside of the worst of the Cold War era Davis Cup matches.)

However, the fact that the tour season is too long actually plays into this, potentially.

After Europe and the Middle East, the tour comes to the States, plays in Florida and South Carolina (A one hour flight) , then goes 3000 miles to California for Indian Wells, and comes back to Florida. A lot of the players, including V&S, live in Florida. So when they come back from Europe, they can basically be home for six weeks if they skip Indian Wells.

Lindsay Davenport began skipping Miami for roughly that same reason. She played Amelia Island, maybe Charleston, maybe not, then flew to California for Indian Wells, then stayed home for a month.

Amelia Mauresmo used to skip most if the US summer hardcourt season.

The players that can afford to take breaks from the tour, often do.

NOTE: I've actually seen Venus quoted as saying she might actually said once she might play there again one day.

NOTE: Indian Wells has drawn record crowds almost every year since that incident. But their TV ratings have been off, and since a lot of tournament revenue comes from ad sales to TV, the upshot is they're selling more tickets than ever, but making less money. Add to that a bad stadium deal (they got screwed by the ATP side of the equation) and financially it's not working for them.

Last year, they were seeking to have the city of Indian Wells help them with re-financing, but I don't know where that went.

All in all, a great example of how pro tennis has gone from being an elite sport to a niche sport in one generation.


I Think IMG bailed them out and saved them from Bakrupcy.

rjd1111
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:45 PM
It would be great if one or both of them played there again and I am sure they would get a very warm reception.

Despite the fact that it was a terrible moment, I think the reason they have chosen to stay away has more to do with the difficult scheduling, right before Miami, a tournament that they both care about much more.

They said they would not play there again

Viktymise
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:49 PM
2 years and counting... tick tock tick tock...

...i hope you videotaped all of those matches :tape: because i can think of one burnt-out player getting beaten left and right, injured, and on the verge of retirement -- and guess what, it ain't martina :secret:

I didn't know being beaten left and right meant getting to a semi of a tier 1 and a QF of a slam in only your 3rd and 4th event of the year and then in only her 3rd match of the year hit over 80 UE's and still beat Hingis. BTW im sure Martina is more burnt out than Venus right now since she has played way way more events over the past 12 months because Venus has been injured. I also can't remember Hingis winning every single one of her matches last year, in fact i can remember several drubbings she recieved last year, Dementieva in Tokyo 6-2 6-0, so saying Venus is being beaten left and right is an exhaggeration when comparing her to Hingis

Volcana
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:49 PM
I Think IMG bailed them out and saved them from Bakrupcy.I think the WTA chipped in as well. But that tournament IS very lucrative. A bad deal onthe new stadium was what caused their financial problems. No V&S exacerbated that, but their absence wasn't the primary cause.

Pureracket
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:51 PM
I think the WTA chipped in as well. But that tournament IS very lucrative. A bad deal onthe new stadium was what caused their financial problems. No V&S exacerbated that, but their absence wasn't the primary cause.They may be fine, but from the television ratings Serena generates, I'm sure that some of the financial pressure would've been relieved in television revenues.

When Venus and Serena left that tournament, IW lost a marketing juggernaut.

rjd1111
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:53 PM
Ya'll can't convince me she wasn't doing that on purpose :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So What. Is it against the rules to show joy for doing something good.

rjd1111
Feb 1st, 2007, 04:58 PM
No, the fact that only a few top players actually enter each year.

Exhibit A: Last year's top five seeds were ranked 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13 :tape:

Exhibit B: Last year's NASDAQ top five seeds were ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7.

It's common sense...but then again, I don't think you would understand. Sorry 4 u...

SF


Since Sisters left they almost went Bankrupt, TV coverage half of what
it was, Other top players quit. I'd say their repute was damaged.

sfselesfan
Feb 1st, 2007, 05:49 PM
Your faulting badly at your endeavor to discredit this tournament!
Move on already....except defeat!!!!:lol: :lol:

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=284003

http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/footmouth.gif

See ya later...no salvaging this one! :tape:

SF

Pureracket
Feb 1st, 2007, 05:50 PM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=284003

http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/footmouth.gif

See ya later...no salvaging this one! :tape:

SF:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 1st, 2007, 05:55 PM
Serena and Venus do not talk about Indian Wells so I'm not sure why a Google Search couldn't have answered this question.

Black Mamba.
Feb 1st, 2007, 06:33 PM
So What. Is it against the rules to show joy for doing something good.

Step up your reading/post comprehension game before you come at me like that. Fall back

rjd1111
Feb 1st, 2007, 06:40 PM
One problem with this thought. They have no choice but to play in Indian wells its now a mandatory tournament why they have two 10 tournaments in row players have to play beats me but its the rules. I can't stand both of them but they don't deserve being called ******s and all the crap they got over a tennis match.

V&S don't have to play anywhere they don't want to. Just watch them.

And you could have done something like N#$%^&S without actually typing the word.

sfselesfan
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:13 PM
Ooohhh Plantman? Where art thou?

*crickets chirping*

SF

rjd1111
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:20 PM
Step up your reading/post comprehension game before you come at me like that. Fall back


Okay. Didn't read the first post. And I'll agree, She did it a'purpose.

LDVTennis
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:28 PM
They may be fine, but from the television ratings Serena generates, I'm sure that some of the financial pressure would've been relieved in television revenues.

When Venus and Serena left that tournament, IW lost a marketing juggernaut.


Folks, I see where you are coming from. Heck, I tend to think the world orbits around Steffi Graf. The facts, however, aren't always so kind.

In an article in the LA Times last year, it was revealed that IW has never made any money on selling its television rights before last year. None. Nada.

This is not an ususual situation. This is how the business works. The sports networks in the US only pay to cover the 4 majors and the ATP Masters Series. That's mostly it. All the other tournaments give away the coverage for free. In some case, as in IW's, they are compensated for that by being given the right to keep revenues from local ad buys --- local for IW being ads that run in the Palm Springs/Coachella Valley TV market.

Now, I did say until last year. What happened last year to change that? A European sports network paid for the rights to show specific matches, matches involving Roger Federer. That is what screwed up the scheduling at the tournament last year. To meet the broadcast deadlines of the said network, Roger's matches were played at night after the women's featured night match. Until last year, it had been customary for the men's featured night match to go first so that ESPN could cover it. In large part, that is why ESPN ended up showing more women's matches. They didn't have the rights or opportunity to broadcast the second night match featuring Roger.

Denise4925
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:41 PM
Today, the tournament seems to be on sound financial footing. Last year, the city of Indian Wells worked out a deal with the tournament owners that included a trade of land around the tournament site for something like $150 million. That paid a major chunk of the outstanding loan on the stadium; the rest was refinanced at a more favorable rate. Also last year, the USTA became one of the principal owners of the tournament by buying out IMG's stake which was for sale.

I happened to be at Serena's last match at Indian Wells. I was in a box seat on the opposite side from where Venus and Richard sat.

When almost everyone started booing at Serena as she appeared on the court, I didn't know what was happening. I remember turning to the guy in the box next to us and asking him, what is happening? Mind you, he was booing too. He mentioned Venus' withdrawal from the semifinal the previous evening and the coverage in the local Palm Springs paper suggesting Richard had been behind the whole thing. It didn't seem rational to me, but here you had almost an entire stadium booing.

I thought that eventually it would stop. But, the booing continued as the match started. When I saw this, I frankly started to feel a bit offended myself. So, I started cheering for Serena as loud as I could, so loud that the guy next to me started to take it personally.

During the trophy ceremony, as Serena began to speak, the crowd booed again. In retrospect, I strongly think there was something more to it than the crowd's perception that they had been cheated out of a semifinal match between Serena/Venus. I mean, you really had to see the face of the guy in the box seat next to me. In a perverse way, I think he relished the opportunity to boo at Serena.

It breaks my heart to hear that. :sad: I mean, Serena was only 17 years old and Venus 18. That would never happen to any other young girl these days or in the past. I can't even imagine how they felt. I would have had a lump in my throat so big, I couldn't continue the match. But, this is the kind of stuff that has made Venus and Serena so mentally strong. So, instead of doing them a disservice, they've contributed to their winning ways. Kind of ironic.

LDVTennis
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:45 PM
I'm sure they're shaking in their Manolo Blahniks.

If they make IW mandatory there will be a revolt by the players. That would require the women to participate in a straight month of tennis. Say what you will, but there is a problem when tournaments like Dubai, Paris and Charleston draw better players than Indian Wells (which used to get the top players every year).

SF

Frankly, I think that is how IW wants it. The women have always been kind of a sideshow there.

When I used to go to the tournament, I ended up noticing that the stadium and the outside courts would fill and stayed filled for almost any men's match, not just that featuring the top one or two players. Once the women came on, the stadium would empty.

The only two women who seemed to draw as much attention as the men were Graf and Hingis.

I guess what that means is that as long as the top 20 men keep showing up the organizers of IW and the local fan base will continue to be happy. That will keep happening for as long as IW remains one of the events in the ATP Masters Series.

Denise4925
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:47 PM
venus played out the crowd & she deserved the boos

any other pro athlete would have gotten those boos in any other sport.

however serena was not guilty and didn't deserve the harrassment

:rolleyes: I guess Venus deserved to be booed for getting injured. You're pathetic.

Denise4925
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:54 PM
'ATTACK" .........:lol: :lol:


I try not to complicate things when you're involved so as not to overwhelm that pebble sized brain of yours.

P.S. Your need to have people think you have SUPERIOR tennis knowledge, speaks volumns and only diminshes most of what you have to say!
Face it Sticky Fingers. most of what you have to say here is blatently false, misconstrued, borderline racially motivated........But hey, as long as MOST people can see that, the easier my job becomes!:p

What is your job? Being the "Petty Poster"? I don't see anything seles has said that you've proven to be blatently false or borderine racially motivated and if anything is miscontrued in what he says, it's because you've miscontrued it with your attacks.

Misery loves company, but sorry I'm just not feeling you at the moment. So, can you come back some other time?

LDVTennis
Feb 1st, 2007, 08:55 PM
It breaks my heart to hear that. :sad: I mean, Serena was only 17 years old and Venus 18. That would never happen to any other young girl these days or in the past. I can't even imagine how they felt. I would have had a lump in my throat so big, I couldn't continue the match. But, this is the kind of stuff that has made Venus and Serena so mentally strong. So, instead of doing them a disservice, they've contributed to their winning ways. Kind of ironic.

Most of you know I am not a fan of Serena's tennis.

I am, however, a big fan of the 17 year old who stepped off the court that day.

If she had lost the match in straight sets and run off crying, I would have understood completely. Had she started cursing at the crowd at some point in the second set, I would have understood completely. They deserved it. But, she didn't do that. She played a heck of a match despite the crowd's efforts to keep her from playing. When it was all said and done, she even stayed to accept the trophy and speak to the crowd. And, though they even took the opportunity to boo her then, Serena was gracious, polite, and forgiving.

I still feel very good to this day that I cheered for that Serena. It was the right thing to do that day, booing was not.

Paneru
Feb 1st, 2007, 09:00 PM
It breaks my heart to hear that. :sad: I mean, Serena was only 17 years old and Venus 18. That would never happen to any other young girl these days or in the past. I can't even imagine how they felt. I would have had a lump in my throat so big, I couldn't continue the match. But, this is the kind of stuff that has made Venus and Serena so mentally strong. So, instead of doing them a disservice, they've contributed to their winning ways. Kind of ironic.

Richard knew this would happen as to why he prepared them
for it. You have people who will hate you. People who will call
you out of your name. And so on. If you are not strong, these
people will destroy you and take pleasure in your destruction.

Look how hated they were in domination and how much pleasure
was taken when they weren't anymore. That hatered and vile stuff
even during their lowest moments in losing their sister. You had vile
and racists things said even during that time, here and on other boards.

Such people don't care whom they may hurt or muster
compassion regardless. Sad but true.


again, you have to thank God for them having such parents
to pepare them and care for them in the midst of it all.

Denise4925
Feb 1st, 2007, 09:01 PM
Both Williams sisters are entitled to play or not play wherever they choose. If they were subjected to racial epithets and abusive behavior at Indian Wells I don't blame them for not playing there but I have mixed feelings about it. Can you imagine if Jackie Robinson had refused to play in ballparks where he received that sort of treatment? His major league career would have lasted about eight weeks. He was steadfast, showed superior character and eventually won hearts and minds. The Williams sisters were under no obligation but had an opportunity to do likewise at Indian Wells.
To a great extent, they already have in terms of the big picture. Incidentally, I don't see anything phony about either Venus' or Serena's gracious behavior at the net, both in victory and defeat.

Difference being Jackie Robinson played a team sport and had to go to those ball parks, plus someone had to break the color barrier and it was the big leagues. The door had already been opened for Venus and Serena, and there was and never will be any need for them to tolerate abuse of any kind. Indian Wells is small potatoes in comparison to what they've accomplished. They never have to go back there for any reason and I hope they don't.

Denise4925
Feb 1st, 2007, 09:07 PM
Your faulting badly at your endeavor to discredit this tournament!
Move on already....except defeat!!!!:lol: :lol:

:lol: Why because you say so?

Denise4925
Feb 1st, 2007, 09:08 PM
"Manolo Blahniks"

Nothing special but the NAME...........Buy the same type (look-a-like) at Wal-Mart for a fraction of the cost!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

:o That's too easy. :tape: :help:

sfselesfan
Feb 1st, 2007, 11:19 PM
"Manolo Blahniks"

Nothing special but the NAME...........Buy the same type (look-a-like) at Wal-Mart for a fraction of the cost!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I bet you have an entire collection. Nothing like Italian shoes...made in Chinese sweat shops...

SF

Veronique
Feb 1st, 2007, 11:35 PM
This is the only Serena match that I taped, yet would never watch again for as long as I live. I actually went on and taped something else over it. It still hurts looking back. Say what you want, but Indian Wells, at least the women's draw, has never been the same. Every tournament where Williams sisters (and Sharapova nowadays) don't get involved , especially in the US, gets hurt. The #s don't lie. Say all you want, but the women's draw has never been as formidable as it was the year the 17 yr old Serena got booed to her victory.

plantman
Feb 2nd, 2007, 01:29 AM
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=284003

http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/footmouth.gif

See ya later...no salvaging this one! :tape:

SF
What needs salvaging?
What's your point?:confused:
You and your sidekick need to just move on as I stated before!
Looks like a great tournament minus the sisters! So a few of the top players have decided not to play. I'm sure it's not because of a BOYCOTT!:lol: :lol:

plantman
Feb 2nd, 2007, 01:34 AM
:lol: Why because you say so?

Sure, why not!
Or is that reserved just for yourself and a few of your followers?:)

harloo
Feb 2nd, 2007, 02:11 AM
After viewing the infamous IW's final several times I have to say it's one of my favorite Serena matches. At first Serena allowed the booing to affect her game, then all of the sudden she wen't into warrior mode refusing the unfair treatment to derail her. A normal 17 year old in that situation would of buckled under the pressure, but she fought tooth and nail not to allow them to win. After that match my admiration for Serena reached a new level, it was simply amazing how she showed strength and mental toughness in such a hostlie enviornment.:worship: :worship:

Knizzle
Feb 2nd, 2007, 02:14 AM
After viewing the infamous IW's final several times I have to say it's one of my favorite Serena matches. At first Serena allowed the booing to affect her game, then all of the sudden she wen't into warrior mode refusing the unfair treatment to derail her. A normal 17 year old in that situation would of buckled under the pressure, but she fought tooth and nail not to allow them to win. After that match my admiration for Serena reached a new level, it was simply amazing how she showed strength and mental toughness in such a hostlie enviornment.:worship: :worship:
Yep the celebration at the end was in the crowd's face, I love it!! I never saw such a defiant celebration as that one from Serena at the end and haven't seen it from her since. BTW she was 19 when that match happened. ;)

sfselesfan
Feb 2nd, 2007, 02:18 AM
What needs salvaging?
What's your point?:confused:
You and your sidekick need to just move on as I stated before!
Looks like a great tournament minus the sisters! So a few of the top players have decided not to play. I'm sure it's not because of a BOYCOTT!:lol: :lol:

(1) I never said it was a boycott. All I ever said is that it no longer draws the top players...and it CLEARLY doesn't. You then asserted that I was "faulting badly" in proving my point. Thank you for reiterating my point.

(2) I don't have a sidekick.

SF

Volcana
Feb 2nd, 2007, 02:59 AM
Both Williams sisters are entitled to play or not play wherever they choose. If they were subjected to racial epithets and abusive behavior at Indian Wells I don't blame them for not playing there but I have mixed feelings about it. Can you imagine if Jackie Robinson had refused to play in ballparks where he received that sort of treatment? His major league career would have lasted about eight weeks. He was steadfast, showed superior character and eventually won hearts and minds. The Williams sisters were under no obligation but had an opportunity to do likewise at Indian Wells.The situations are vastly different. Major League Baseball is a single corporate entity, in effect. It was play there, or not play. Venus and Serena weren't fighting tennis. Just one white supremacist crowd. And they got to send the ultimate double insult. 'You can't beat us, AND we don't need you.'

By NOT showing up, V&S force a discussion of white supremacist attitudes in tennis, year after year after year. Why take the easy appearance money when all you have to do is be steadfast to force a discussion of something that actually affects you?

Denise4925
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:17 AM
Sure, why not!
Or is that reserved just for yourself and a few of your followers?:)

No reason that it shouldn't, :shrug: especially when you're as delusional as you are. Have fun in your world.

plantman
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:03 AM
No reason that it shouldn't, :shrug: especially when you're as delusional as you are. Have fun in your world.


Oh I do, and love every minute of it!

You enjoy your little corner of it as well!:wavey:

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:30 PM
Hmmm..I think to them it is a moot point. You never even hear them talk about IW. Seems like the tournament doesn't even exist for them.

But yeah, that was a great celebration by Serena. "Boo now, boo now!!" :lol:

pav
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:46 PM
Its excellent that the Williams Sisters stand up to racism. They will not put up with that crap.
They should tell their father off then, he is an expert at it!but that is alright though, racism from black to white is perfectly acceptable to some twisted people! My views come from a perspective of someone who has more breeds in his blood than many a mongrel dog. makes me laugh hearing the views of those as pure as driven snow,as Rena's imaginary mate Jehova was supposed to have said "Let he/she who is without sin heave the first bloody rock"

Black Mamba.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:51 PM
They should tell their father off then, he is an expert at it!but that is alright though, racism from black to white is perfectly acceptable to some twisted people! My views come from a perspective of someone who has more breeds in his blood than many a mongrel dog. makes me laugh hearing the views of those as pure as driven snow,as Rena's imaginary mate Jehova was supposed to have said "Let he/she who is without sin heave the first bloody rock"



I bet it's so hard to put up with Black/White racism

Denise4925
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:11 PM
Oh I do, and love every minute of it!

You enjoy your little corner of it as well!:wavey:

Honey, nobody is in your world but you. :wavey:

Denise4925
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:13 PM
They should tell their father off then, he is an expert at it!but that is alright though, racism from black to white is perfectly acceptable to some twisted people! My views come from a perspective of someone who has more breeds in his blood than many a mongrel dog. makes me laugh hearing the views of those as pure as driven snow,as Rena's imaginary mate Jehova was supposed to have said "Let he/she who is without sin heave the first bloody rock"

Ignorance to the nth degree. :eek:

Rocketta
Feb 2nd, 2007, 06:46 PM
I bet it's so hard to put up with Black/White racism


Yeah those Kiwis nothing but racially tolerant. :o


NZ tackles growing racism
By Angie Knox
BBC, New Zealand
Clean, green - and racist? New Zealand's image is taking a beating with new research showing that 70% of its citizens think that Asians face significant discrimination. The research, by the Human Rights Commission, has prompted an advertising campaign to encourage Kiwis to be kinder to immigrants.
More than 200,000 Asian migrants have arrived in New Zealand in the past 20 years, and it is officially estimated that Asians will make up 13% of New Zealand's population by 2021.


Auckland is New Zealand's largest and most multicultural city. Yet at the top of Queen Street, which runs through Auckland's central business district, a billboard addresses the ever-controversial issue of immigration.
"Immigration's up, treaty costs up, crime's up... Had enough?", the billboard reads, directing onlookers to the website of New Zealand First, one of the country's smallest opposition parties.
Across town at a migrant centre, groups of students take part in employment training sessions. Overwhelmingly, the faces there are Asian.
That might be because most Asian migrants choose to settle in Auckland - the city is home to an estimated two-thirds of all Asians in New Zealand.
But it is also harder for Asians to get a job - and not necessarily because they do not have the qualifications.
Discrimination
Asoka Basnayake, a settlement coordinator for new migrants, says that finding a job is a huge challenge for migrants.
"That's mainly because New Zealand employers are looking for New Zealand experience," she said.
"Although people's qualifications and experience and skills have been assessed at the time they migrate to New Zealand, when they come here they find their skills, qualifications and experience are not worth anything."



Migrants to New Zealand
8,700 from China
8,400 from India
6,600 from the UK
4,300 from South Africa
Source: NZ Migration Information (year ending June 2002)

Ms Basnayake should know. When she came to New Zealand eight years ago, she applied for 250 jobs without success, despite having extensive work experience in Europe, Asia and Canada.
New Zealand's Race Relations Commissioner, Joris de Bres, said that discrimination was definitely a problem.
"There has been a disturbing increase in recent times in what I'd call conversational discrimination, and particularly in relation to Asian immigrants," he said.
Media campaign
New Zealand's Human Rights Commission is sponsoring an advertising campaign to nip this trend in the bud.
The NZ$1.5m (US$870,000 ) series of TV, radio, billboard and newspaper advertisements aims to challenge racial stereotypes - and is being paid for by a group of media and advertising companies led by McCann Ericks.
"I'd been living in Asia for just under six years, and whenever people asked me how migrant-friendly New Zealand was as a nation, I said we were very, very migrant friendly," said the company's managing director John Roberts.


"When I arrived back last year and started sifting through some independent research groups that we run, some really quite distasteful racist comments were coming up," he said. One of the comments was: "You can guarantee if there's an accident, an Asian will be involved."
Another said: "The government should shut the doors. Who wants all these people ruining our good life?"
Mr Roberts believes comments like these are a reaction to how New Zealand has changed - and is still changing.
"Auckland is a great example," he said. "You walk down Queen Street now and to be honest you could be in Hong Kong or Singapore. The look of the place has changed, and I think that's scared people."
Joris de Bres said that the recent rise in the Asian population was a mirror of what happened 30 years ago when large numbers of Pacific Islanders arrived in New Zealand to ease labour shortages.
"In the 1970s there was a similar opposition to Pacific migration," he said.
"In the first years of the 21st century, that opposition has moved - among a percentage of the population - to Asian migration. And at the same time people are saying they are perfectly happy with the numbers of Pacific Islanders here."
But Joris de Bres said he was confident New Zealand would not follow the lead of Australia, where Pauline Hanson's anti-immigration One Nation Party garnered 10% of the popular vote in the mid-1990s.
"There was a lot of concern about discrimination against Asian immigrants when we surveyed people last year," he said. "So I think probably New Zealand will come through this."


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/3192425.stm

Published: 2003/08/29 22:59:43 GMT

© BBC MMVII

TennisPhan
Feb 13th, 2013, 10:44 PM
I don't wanna sturr up any discussions about race or why they are boycotting IW.

Just have a question:
Has IW been fining the W sisters all these years? If so, how much money was the fine per year? total? Can't find anything about it on the net...

Viktymise
Feb 13th, 2013, 11:14 PM
LOL @ Denise.

iWill
Feb 14th, 2013, 12:08 AM
I don't wanna sturr up any discussions about race or why they are boycotting IW.

Just have a question:
Has IW been fining the W sisters all these years? If so, how much money was the fine per year? total? Can't find anything about it on the net...


This article is a few years old so I'm not sure if the rules are EXACTLY still the same but I'd imagine they miss Indian Wells and have a promotional event somewhere every year that qualifies.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2008-07-16-wtasuspension-rule_N.htm


Updated 7/17/2008 7:21 PM | Comment | Recommend

By Douglas Robson, Special for USA TODAY
Serena and Venus Williams' ongoing boycott of the Pacific Life Open at Indian Wells, Calif., could jeopardize their participation at other tournaments under recently adopted rules for mandatory events set to kick in next year. But provisions in the rules should allow the sisters to avoid suspensions.
Approved by the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour board at Wimbledon, the new rules stipulate that players who withdraw from one of the tour's five "premier" events (Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid, Beijing and the Tour Championships) face fines as well as a two-tournament ban at the next two premier events unless they perform promotional activities for the missed event. That obligation can be met during the tournament or within a year.

Current penalties include fines, but no suspension.

"It would have to be activities mutually agreed upon between the tournament and the tour," WTA CEO Larry Scott said earlier this month, and must fall within a 125-mile radius of the event. That leaves plenty of flexibility.

The Williams sisters have steadfastly declined to participate at the Pacific Life Open since 2001. That year, Venus defaulted to Serena minutes before their semifinal started. Spectators subsequently jeered Serena in the final. The sisters and their father, Richard, have said they believe the crowd's actions were racially motivated.

"Hopefully they'll play, but if they don't they will have to do what any other player would have to do," Scott said of the two multiple major winners.

Monday at the Bank of the West Classic in Palo Alto, Calif., top-seeded Serena reiterated her unwillingness to play in the California desert near Palm Springs.

"I'm not going to Indian Wells," said the fifth-ranked American, who lost the Wimbledon final to older sister Venus. "That's just the bottom line."

"I honestly don't think they would want me to go," she added when asked about fulfilling promotional obligations to avoid a suspension. "I wouldn't have anything positive to say. It would be kind of shooting themselves in the foot. I would be more than happy to go and tell them how I really feel."

Serena's agent, Jill Smoller, said the eight-time Grand Slam champ would meet her obligations so that she could compete at the Sony Ericsson Open in Florida, which is the week after Indian Wells. Serena has won the Key Biscayne event five times.

"Some things you have to stand up for," Serena said. "There's been a lot of people in the past that are my race that have stood up for a lot more than not playing Indian Wells. That's the least I can do."

crescentmoon
Feb 14th, 2013, 12:23 AM
Funny, I was just thinking about this tournament today actually and wondering if Vee and Serena will ever play there again. Anyway, what happened was Vee had to pull out of her semi-final with Serena due to injury. People were angry coz they thought it was a fix and also coz they thought it was unfair for Kim to play her semi when Serena got a free pass into the final. As a result, Serena got jeered like crazy during the final. The crowd were really pathetic :rolleyes:

She was jeered, however, there were a select few spectators who used racial overtones. That being said, it happened such a long time ago, I would have hoped Serena and Venus would have gotten over it. Also, it was just a few people in the stands whom were inappropriate.

maddogz48
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:03 AM
The Williams Sisters and Indian Wells came up again over the weekend.

Political Insider: Serena, Venus Williams adios still sore subject
http://www.mydesert.com/article/20130209/NEWS03/302090045/

Old wounds never die.

Take Venus and Serena Williams’ vow never to return to the desert, except for a spa spotting two years ago.

In 2001, the Williams sisters were supposed to go head to head in a semifinal match in the Indian Wells tennis tournament, now known as the BNP Paribas Open. It was set to be televised on ESPN, but Venus pulled out at the last minute and Serena was booed throughout the match.

Their father, Richard Williams, later said racial slurs were used against him and his family. The sisters have never returned to the event.

Fast forward to an Indian Wells Tennis Garden expansion update given at the La Quinta City Council meeting on Tuesday night.

At the conclusion of a roughly 30-minute overview by CEO Raymond Moore, La Quinta Mayor Don Adolph had a question.

“Have you made peace with the Williams sisters?” Adolph asked with a chuckle.

Moore responded, but he wasn’t laughing. “Peace, is a two-edged sword.”

Still too soon, it would appear.

KournikovaFan91
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:08 AM
The crowd were crazy, I get that they were pissed about the walkover and it was at a time when some in tennis did question is WS matches were pre-determined but they were out of line big time the way they treated Serena in the final.

dencod16
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:15 AM
Well Venus withdrew 2 hours before the match, but the organizers and trainers said that something might still be done. It's the organizers fault why the crowd acted the way they did because they waited just to have the match cancelled. Indian Wells never took any responsibility to what happened, whereas it was 100% their fault, they haven't apologized to the sisters and haven't tried to win them back other than trying to bully them with this Mandatory ruling, but it hasn't worked.

I don't wanna sturr up any discussions about race or why they are boycotting IW.

Just have a question:
Has IW been fining the W sisters all these years? If so, how much money was the fine per year? total? Can't find anything about it on the net...

Nope, they have been doing promotional events around Indian Wells, as they refuse to promote Indian Wells itself. usual rules is that you need to promote the event to not be given a money fine.

mauresmofan
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:21 AM
She was jeered, however, there were a select few spectators who used racial overtones. That being said, it happened such a long time ago, I would have hoped Serena and Venus would have gotten over it. Also, it was just a few people in the stands whom were inappropriate.

I'm sure they have gotten over it. Simply put they'll never play there again. End of discussion. Some times you have to make a stand and that's what they've done. Fair play to them.

In The Zone
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:22 AM
Well Venus withdrew 2 hours before the match, but the organizers and trainers said that something might still be done. It's the organizers fault why the crowd acted the way they did because they waited just to have the match cancelled. Indian Wells never took any responsibility to what happened, whereas it was 100% their fault, they haven't apologized to the sisters and haven't tried to win them back other than trying to bully them with this Mandatory ruling, but it hasn't worked.



Nope, they have been doing promotional events around Indian Wells, as they refuse to promote Indian Wells itself. usual rules is that you need to promote the event to not be given a money fine.

Venus wanted to withdraw WAY before "2 hours before the match." The organizers wouldn't let her and encouraged her to wait and see how it felt. The Indian Wells organizers and the way they felt on court (Venus in the stands) have marred that event for them. The organizers have never taken any ownership of the situation and let the Sisters hang out there to dry for their mistake. They will never return there.

In The Zone
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:24 AM
I'm sure they have gotten over it. Simply put they'll never play there again. End of discussion. Some times you have to make a stand and that's what they've done. Fair play to them.

Exactly. So they don't play there - big deal.

In The Zone
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:25 AM
The Williams Sisters and Indian Wells came up again over the weekend.

Political Insider: Serena, Venus Williams adios still sore subject
http://www.mydesert.com/article/20130209/NEWS03/302090045/

Old wounds never die.

Take Venus and Serena Williams’ vow never to return to the desert, except for a spa spotting two years ago.

In 2001, the Williams sisters were supposed to go head to head in a semifinal match in the Indian Wells tennis tournament, now known as the BNP Paribas Open. It was set to be televised on ESPN, but Venus pulled out at the last minute and Serena was booed throughout the match.

Their father, Richard Williams, later said racial slurs were used against him and his family. The sisters have never returned to the event.

Fast forward to an Indian Wells Tennis Garden expansion update given at the La Quinta City Council meeting on Tuesday night.

At the conclusion of a roughly 30-minute overview by CEO Raymond Moore, La Quinta Mayor Don Adolph had a question.

“Have you made peace with the Williams sisters?” Adolph asked with a chuckle.

Moore responded, but he wasn’t laughing. “Peace, is a two-edged sword.”

Still too soon, it would appear.

I think that kind of response tells you exactly what happened in 2001 and why exactly the Sisters will NEVER play Indian Wells again.

ZeroSumGame
Feb 14th, 2013, 01:31 AM
:lol::lol: They miss them :lol::lol: IW should get over it, all other top players will be playing the event, that's enough to entertain this much maligned crowd. IW should stop opening old wounds & just move on! No sane individual will trade their values/beliefs for $$ or fame :wavey:

Morning Morgan
Feb 14th, 2013, 02:01 AM
In before the lock?

Infiniti2001
Feb 14th, 2013, 02:46 AM
Me too :lol: I still believe that Demented's words in the press is partly to be blamed too :tape:

Manitou
Feb 14th, 2013, 03:46 AM
Venus attended the final with Richard and they were called n***ers by some of the fans.

SF

One would expect the tennis crowd to be more sophisticated and classy, but judging a certain number of people on this forum, plus own observation on some tournaments I attended, I don't see much difference from the soccer gangs.
For example, I would be disgusted to meet in person at least a couple of people I met here. And I would never want those people in the same crowd with me.
Of course, I met many fans with class, mostly older people. And this is the kind of people we are hanging with on tournaments. There are such people here too. But as everywhere, a party can be ruined by just one thug.



--

thrust
Feb 14th, 2013, 04:05 AM
The Williams will NEVER play there again. Not even for $10 million.

WHO THE F--K CARES? IW has been a great tournament before anyone ever heard about the Williams and will survive long after they are gone.

Manitou
Feb 14th, 2013, 04:09 AM
WHO THE F--K CARES? IW has been a great tournament before anyone ever heard about the Williams and will survive long after they are gone.

So I can expect you are one of those people who booed them out. And probably one of those I mentioned in my previous post...


--

Infiniti2001
Feb 14th, 2013, 04:10 AM
WHO THE F--K CARES? IW has been a great tournament before anyone ever heard about the Williams and will survive long after they are gone.

Obviously you , judging by this response :facepalm:

bandabou
Feb 14th, 2013, 06:20 AM
Why keep bumping something this old? They ain't coming back. Better for them and the tournament think it's better for them as well. So everybody happy.

Caipirinha Guy
Feb 14th, 2013, 06:54 AM
Please lock this neverending thread. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/lockd.gif