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View Full Version : AO needs to change the heat rule before someone gets killed


vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:18 AM
it's ridiculous to start these matches at 11am when it's 33 degrees C and obviously going up to 39-40 C during the course of the matches. They need to extend the heat rule to protect the players who are on court in the opening matches - everybody else is protected, so why not the players who go on court first? It's an extremely dangerous situation to have anyone playing for multiple hours at 100 degrees (which is like 130 degrees oncourt).
Sharapova looked like she was dangerously close to collapse at the end of that match.

tennisbum79
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:23 AM
Be careful.
You could upset some Ausie fans.
Fortunately, it is only a minority of fans.
I would not be surprised if these same fans( two or three) answer by
saying there is heat in every tournament.
It it just not publicized or talked about as it is at the Ausie open.

darrinbaker00
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:24 AM
it's ridiculous to start these matches at 11am when it's 33 degrees C and obviously going up to 39-40 C during the course of the matches. They need to extend the heat rule to protect the players who are on court in the opening matches - everybody else is protected, so why not the players who go on court first? It's an extremely dangerous situation to have anyone playing for multiple hours at 100 degrees (which is like 130 degrees oncourt).
Sharapova looked like she was dangerously close to collapse at the end of that match.
If they knew it was going to be that hot at 11:00, then they should never have opened the roof in the first place. Also, why did they not close the roof while Pin and Sharapova were off the court between the second and third sets? I agree, Vogus; they need to change the heat rule.

Gowza
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:28 AM
well that's one reason why it would be good to move the tournament to march, it wouldn't be quite as hot. i agree though the heat rule should be extended for those already oncourt.

drake3781
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:30 AM
Last tournament I was at, at each changeover somebody took each player's body temperature and recorded it on a clipboard. I assume they were watching for signs of overheating... maybe there was a cutoff temperature at which they had to take a break? Anybody seen this berfore? I suppose they aren't doing that at AO?

BTW the way they took the temperature was to hold the thermomter at her back, maybe it was near her neck (I can't quite remember). The player could pretty much ignore that it was happening.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:32 AM
if that match today had gone to 10-10 in the 3rd, there was a real danger that somebody could die out there. When you're in that kind of a tense match at a Grand Slam, you're not thinking anymore about your safety. But it's 130 degrees and there is a limit to what the body can take under those conditions.

Martian Stacey
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:40 AM
it's ridiculous to start these matches at 11am when it's 33 degrees C and obviously going up to 39-40 C during the course of the matches. They need to extend the heat rule to protect the players who are on court in the opening matches - everybody else is protected, so why not the players who go on court first? It's an extremely dangerous situation to have anyone playing for multiple hours at 100 degrees (which is like 130 degrees oncourt).
Sharapova looked like she was dangerously close to collapse at the end of that match.
Well, I don't think you can stop the matches from starting if the temperature has not yet reached extreme heat, but they should be able to suspend play if it reaches 35 degrees.

If the forecast predicts extreme heat, then the roof at least should be half closed, and then closed fully once the thermometer hits 35.

partbrit
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:54 AM
I've been saying that, and blogging about it, for years. The day someone dies on court will be the day they change the procedures. It's ridiculous.

soccerjock
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:58 AM
How hot is it at the mo? Cause SEXY Olivier Rochus has just won 36 75 75 67 97 on Vodafone Arena last 3 sets alone where 3 hours long!!! Oh my!! They must be KNACKERED!

Martian Stacey
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:00 AM
How hot is it at the mo? Cause SEXY Olivier Rochus has just won 36 75 75 67 97 on Vodafone Arena last 3 sets alone where 3 hours long!!! Oh my!! They must be KNACKERED!
Voda does have a roof, thats why their match was allowed to start.

Jeff
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:01 AM
Ok, so the rule is that the court cannot be closed after a match has begun, because the rule is that you cannot change the conditions after the start of the match...BUT what I don't understand is, why can't they change the conditions if 1) Both players will be experiencing the change and 2) Both players agree to the change? It just doesn't make sense to me that they will close the roof for rain, but not when the temperature is at an extreme level.

soccerjock
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:02 AM
Voda does have a roof, thats why their match was allowed to start.

Yeah i just found that out, so editd my post! Thanks for puttin me right!

Xanadu11
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:11 AM
The rationale of finishing the match in the conditions they started in is stupid, since when it rains they close the roof, thus changing the conditions the match started in. Extreme heat should be treated like rain, roof closed and all matches suspended till the heat goes down. I guess that will only happen when someone goes into cardiac arrest on court. Seriously.

Huntress555
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:12 AM
It is extrememly hot in the Aus Summer, so I always questioned the late starts, and why the hell it is even started in January! the MIDDLE of our summer, the hottest part for goodness sake.

I love the AUs OP, but the heat is ridiculous and dangerous, especially in Melbourne, I mean its not that bad here in Brisbane, but down there!!

go hingis
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:32 AM
After the Martina/Jennifer final you would think they would have learned something.

ozstyl
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:34 AM
It is extrememly hot in the Aus Summer, so I always questioned the late starts, and why the hell it is even started in January! the MIDDLE of our summer, the hottest part for goodness sake.

I love the AUs OP, but the heat is ridiculous and dangerous, especially in Melbourne, I mean its not that bad here in Brisbane, but down there!!

Agreeeeeeeeeed.. January is hell.

I love our summers, but there not as enjoyable anymore -- too many days with
unbareable suffocating heat.!!!!!!!

I went to the tennis last year and got sunburnt --- I am BLACK lol.
Im watching the tennis from my lounge this year.

Orion
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:43 AM
It's not the fault of the heat; professional athletes live by their bodies. To expect them to take precautions against forseeable problems (such as heat) is not unreasonable. When your living is made through your body, who can you blame if you don't drink enough water/electrolytes and overheat? If players spent half the time on selecting their outfits (which tend to be disasters anyway) on taking precautions, there wouldn't be all these problems.

When I competed, we weren't given any extra time off, and playing tennis at 3 p.m. in Alabama and Georgia is brutal. And we weren't even pros.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 07:04 AM
I've been saying that, and blogging about it, for years. The day someone dies on court will be the day they change the procedures. It's ridiculous.


if they don't change the rule, one of these years, there is going to be a match that goes to 9-9 in the third set on a 100 degree day, and it is going to happen. One hundred degrees is just too hot on such a court surface. You can't play real tennis in that.

kittyking
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:35 AM
I've been saying that, and blogging about it, for years. The day someone dies on court will be the day they change the procedures. It's ridiculous.

I completely agree with what you said there

Stroba
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:47 AM
if they don't change the rule, one of these years, there is going to be a match that goes to 9-9 in the third set on a 100 degree day, and it is going to happen. One hundred degrees is just too hot on such a court surface. You can't play real tennis in that.

I agree Vogus, like Tipsarevic said after his defeat against Nalbandian, this shouldn´t be a competiton of who can take the heat the longest.
I read they measured a peak of 39 degrees celius during the Maria match. That will probarbly make something like 50-60 degree on court in the sun.
Thats just SICK!

I´m no professional and my fitnesslevel is far from the top players, but heat affect my game already at temperatures of 25 degrees celcius, if having to play in the sun.

tennisvideos
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:49 AM
I think they should move the date to March or April which are the two most beautiful months for weather in Melbourne and most of Australia for that matter. But the organisers are stubborn for a multitude of reasons and some of them are justified. Personally, I would love a March or April tournament.

Veritas
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:02 AM
Maria's skin was beetroot red. She had problems breathing and had to get a trainer on court. It's not just the body that suffers; the mind can take a hit as well, making players dizzy and unable to concentrate. Why else would Maria - a pro - have thought that the final set at a Grand Slam would be a tie-breaker?

I agree with most here. Once the temperature reaches 35 degrees Celsius (95 degrees Fahrenheit), the roof should be closed. It might make the court humidity higher, but at least players won't be suffering from the UV rays. I can't believe tournament officials thought a mere 10-minute break was enough for a match lasting more than 2 hours :rolleyes:

bellascarlett
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:09 AM
it's ridiculous to start these matches at 11am when it's 33 degrees C and obviously going up to 39-40 C during the course of the matches. They need to extend the heat rule to protect the players who are on court in the opening matches - everybody else is protected, so why not the players who go on court first? It's an extremely dangerous situation to have anyone playing for multiple hours at 100 degrees (which is like 130 degrees oncourt).
Sharapova looked like she was dangerously close to collapse at the end of that match.

Exactly. I don't understand it as well. It's really unfair - why let some suffer and the others not? Maria played bad yes but it's undeniable that the heat was a factor in how the match ended. Seeing Kim and Martina cruise through without difficulty in their 1st round matches just annoys me even more. :o

Most of all, it is very dangerous. Several male players retired today - just gives you a great idea of how brutal it was out there. It's hard not to feel bad for the women out there today and for everyone for that matter.

Hopefully having the leading face of not just women's tennis but tennis as a whole (and top women's seed) suffer much out there wakes the organizers and the WTA/ATP up.......HELLLOOOOOOO???!!!! :smash: :help: :o

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:11 AM
its still to hot to play and its gone 8pm

and imagine playing out there in the midday sun :speakles: :scared:

:help:

V-fan
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:22 AM
If they knew it was going to be that hot at 11:00, then they should never have opened the roof in the first place. Also, why did they not close the roof while Pin and Sharapova were off the court between the second and third sets? I agree, Vogus; they need to change the heat rule.

I believe that the reason why the roof wasn't closed during the match of Sharapova-Pin, is because there is a rule which says that when the match has started outdoors it also has to be finished outdoors, so during the match itself they don't close the roof....I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe this is the reason!!!

Martian Stacey
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:58 AM
After the Martina/Jennifer final you would think they would have learned something.
They did. Before that match they never closed the roof at all for extreme heat, only for rain.

But obviously they can still do more.

Martian Stacey
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:01 AM
i thought they needed like half an hour to close the roof over the Rod Laver and 10 minutes to close it over Vodafone ..that's why players that played on Vodafone Arena had more good condition ..they will have to stop the game like for half on hour on Laver arena ..and when a match is allready on cours for some time they let it so ,instead of stoping it ..at least that's what the comentator said when they showed Maria /Pin match it takes too much time to close the roof , :confused:
Its about 20 minutes to close the roof on RLA. And I believe it makes noise when its being closed, so its not like they can just keep playing while it's being closed.

If they have it half-closed before the match, it would take 10 minutes. If it was a really hot day they could close it during a match at the end of the set, I don't think waiting 10 minutes would disrupt the players, especially when you consider they are allowed to take that much time before the third set to take a break in cases of extreme heat.

aussie_fan
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:46 AM
Maybe I'm the only here who actually ageres with the rule, you shouldn't interrupt the flow of the match when it clearly still be played, both players are disadvantaged, they should keep playing. I do understand most of the people's view though. it's bloody hot out there.

Marcus1979
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:50 AM
the roof should of been shut at the start of play today

today was forcast to be 39C as early as last Wednesday

same as tomorrow it should be

don't they say Miami is also a hot tournament?

xan
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:20 PM
The AO organizers should be condemned for this lunacy!

What the hell is the point of a heat policy, if you force certain players to play 3 hoyurs in 120 degree heat, while the rest have their matches postponed or play in air-conditioned comfort? Rochus had to withdraw after less than this. Someone could have got killed.

Don't the idiots who run this tournament realise that if its too hot for players to start a match, it's too hot to go on with a long match? The roof should have been closed after the 2nd set. The jobsworths who run this tournament should be sacked - made to go out and play to their own rules

xan
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:26 PM
It's not the fault of the heat; professional athletes live by their bodies. To expect them to take precautions against forseeable problems (such as heat) is not unreasonable. When your living is made through your body, who can you blame if you don't drink enough water/electrolytes and overheat? If players spent half the time on selecting their outfits (which tend to be disasters anyway) on taking precautions, there wouldn't be all these problems.

When I competed, we weren't given any extra time off, and playing tennis at 3 p.m. in Alabama and Georgia is brutal. And we weren't even pros.

Why do you think they have the heat rule? Because it is DANGEROUS to play all out professional tennis in 120 degree heat! :mad: Do you want to see people die for your satisfaction?

People die even walking aropund in such temperatures. Even the local wildlife goes and hides under a rock!

The idiots who run the AO should be condemned. If it is too dangerous for SOME players to play, it is too dangerous for ALL players to play. The roof should have been closed at the end of the 1st set in which the temperature goes over the limit?

Veritas
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:35 PM
Maybe I'm the only here who actually ageres with the rule, you shouldn't interrupt the flow of the match when it clearly still be played, both players are disadvantaged, they should keep playing. I do understand most of the people's view though. it's bloody hot out there.

Player's health > "flow of the match".

Marcus1979
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:39 PM
doesn't Paris get as hot during the summer also tho?

matthieu_tennis
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Imagine when you are from a north country, it's difficult to adjust

Polikarpov
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:44 PM
I was quite disappointed to see Nadal play under the roof.

I mean, they let the ladies suffer from the heat then the men get to play comfortably.

Also, I think that the heat will affect the Europeans more than anyone because they're not used to these conditions.

Here in the Philippines, 33-34 C is pretty normal to us.

hwanmig
Jan 16th, 2007, 12:48 PM
I believe they did not close the roof because it would be unfair to those ones who are playing in the outside courts. I mean I'd get pissed if I'm playing in MCA with the heat while Ms. Sharapova or Mr. Federer are playing under a roof.

Veritas
Jan 16th, 2007, 01:02 PM
I believe they did not close the roof because it would be unfair to those ones who are playing in the outside courts. I mean I'd get pissed if I'm playing in MCA with the heat while Ms. Sharapova or Mr. Federer are playing under a roof.

If there's a retractable roof, use it otherwise it's pointless having something that costs millions.

As for the players outside Rod Laver, I suggest they tell officials to set up artificial coverings (such as polyester tents) so that UV rays won't be a problem.

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 16th, 2007, 01:07 PM
doesn't Paris get as hot during the summer also tho?

not in early Spring it doesnt :lol: (there are a few days when it can get to around 30 in May but its rare)
this yr 1st week in Paris had temps of around 10-15C :o

Marcus1979
Jan 16th, 2007, 01:10 PM
ooh I was thinking Roland Garros was like mid June :lol:

athake
Jan 16th, 2007, 02:17 PM
u cant win a war against nature, human biology's so fragile to dare getting that risk.

So Aus officials have to spent more money to outher courts' conditions also or shift the tour to march. There's no other choise...

laurie
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:25 PM
I would like to see the Australian Open moved to March with Indian Wells and Miami maybe in February. Give the players a better off season.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:38 PM
It's not the fault of the heat; professional athletes live by their bodies. To expect them to take precautions against forseeable problems (such as heat) is not unreasonable. When your living is made through your body, who can you blame if you don't drink enough water/electrolytes and overheat? If players spent half the time on selecting their outfits (which tend to be disasters anyway) on taking precautions, there wouldn't be all these problems.

When I competed, we weren't given any extra time off, and playing tennis at 3 p.m. in Alabama and Georgia is brutal. And we weren't even pros.


the air temps in Alabama and Georgia rarely pass 32-33 C. Going up to 39-40 C makes a huge difference in the danger level. And how many pro tournaments do you see being held in the US South in July/August/September? None, and there's a good reason for it.

jazar
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:42 PM
it is very unfair to make some players play in the blistering heat and others under the roof, but its not like they can say no more matches to be played until it gets colder otherwise the tournament would be a lot longer than 2 weeks. unfortunately its just something the players have to get used to

pierce0415
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:47 PM
is the weather supposed to be the same for Wed?
I am scared for Na Li v Bovina to be played in those conditions :help:

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:47 PM
it is very unfair to make some players play in the blistering heat and others under the roof, but its not like they can say no more matches to be played until it gets colder otherwise the tournament would be a lot longer than 2 weeks. unfortunately its just something the players have to get used to


it is, in fact, very much like that.

Days as hot as yesterday occur on average only 1 or 2 times per tournament and some years do not occur at all. Play needs to be stopped when it happens.

Kim's_fan_4ever
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:48 PM
I think that AO should not be played during Australian summer, I mean it should start few weeks later... The heat is really dangerous to all the players so I really see no point in risking somebody's health...

Mina Vagante
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:55 PM
the heat is rediculous!

silverarrows
Jan 16th, 2007, 03:55 PM
Heat is part of the fitness test of a player. The players should deal with it. ;) The sun will always be there. It was up there before the tennis was born. :cool:

Experimentee
Jan 16th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Heat is part of tennis and every player should be able to play in all conditions. It pays off to have great fitness and physical conditioning to be able to withstand the heat. There are some players who can play in the heat and are mostly unaffected, this is because they have trained for it.

I think though that they should stop matches once it reaches a dangerous level, like over 40 degrees. It doesnt matter that much to finish the match in the same conditions, since it is the same for both players.

tenn_ace
Jan 16th, 2007, 04:34 PM
After the Martina/Jennifer final you would think they would have learned something.

my thoughts exactly :worship:


props to vogue for starting this thread :yeah:

tenn_ace
Jan 16th, 2007, 04:43 PM
Maybe I'm the only here who actually ageres with the rule, you shouldn't interrupt the flow of the match when it clearly still be played, both players are disadvantaged, they should keep playing. I do understand most of the people's view though. it's bloody hot out there.

and when a player dies, what will you say then?

it's his/her fault, right?

alfonsojose
Jan 16th, 2007, 04:51 PM
A bit :topic: but since players are so careless about it :rolleyes: AO should enforce the use of glasses and sunscreen. Sharapova whole back exposed to the sun was :rolleyes:

griffin
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:06 PM
I don't think they should interrupt matches either (although I assume they would for rain?), but there's no reason they can't start the day with the roofs closed if they know the temperature is going to hit a certain point.

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:11 PM
A bit :topic: but since players are so careless about it :rolleyes: AO should enforce the use of glasses and sunscreen. Sharapova whole back exposed to the sun was :rolleyes:


I'm sure she put on sunscreen before the match; most sunscreen is not visible. But when it wore off because of three hours of sweating and toweling off in 120 degree heat - what was she to do? Call for a timeout to reapply it?:shrug:

silverarrows
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:19 PM
and when a player dies, what will you say then?

it's his/her fault, right?



She/He will definitely retire before she/he will die. :lol: And yes, It's the player's fault. Part of being a tennis player is fitness. And heat is a fitness test of tennis player. Whoever is fitter will win. :cool:

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:21 PM
I don't think they should interrupt matches either (although I assume they would for rain?), but there's no reason they can't start the day with the roofs closed if they know the temperature is going to hit a certain point.


I agree about starting the day with the roof closed when high temperatures are forecast. But why not have extreme heat delays just like rain delays? Considering the heat can actually be deadly, unlike rain.

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:25 PM
She/He will definitely retire before she/he will die. :lol: And yes, It's the player's fault. Part of being a tennis player is fitness. And heat is a fitness test of tennis player. Whoever is fitter will win. :cool:


And whoever isn't may die.:lol: :cool:


:rolleyes:

griffin
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:31 PM
I agree about starting the day with the roof closed when high temperatures are forecast. But why not have extreme heat delays just like rain delays? Considering the heat can actually be deadly, unlike rain.

Not to minimize the dangers of heat-related injury, but the chances of someone dying on court are actually quite small. Especially with the heat rules they do have, and the access the players have to trainers and other medical staff during the match.

Taking precautions is one thing, but a blanket rule to disrupt matches for what is basically a fitness and acclimation problem for individual players (I do give Maria credit for fighting through obvious pain and discomfort, but please note that Camille Pin was playing in the exact same conditions that she was) is another.

tenn_ace
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:41 PM
She/He will definitely retire before she/he will die. :lol: And yes, It's the player's fault. Part of being a tennis player is fitness. And heat is a fitness test of tennis player. Whoever is fitter will win. :cool:

:rolleyes:
I wouldn't be so definite. Couple of years ago a healthy American football player died after his practice. I'm sure he thought he needed to tough it out and it was just heat.

Unless you have played in a heat like this you really don'y know what you are talking about. :p

selesfan1
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:43 PM
They should just use the 10 minute break between the second and third sets to close the roof.

LudwigDvorak
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Everyone's ignoring something: the ATP doesn't even have any rules for heat extremity. I remember there was a final between Ginepri and Dent and it was blistering hot outside, and Dent was really struggling with it after the match had to go to a deciding set, and he asked for a medical timeout but he was told to either forfeit or keep playing, so he forfeited the championship.

This isn't meant at all to downgrade what Pin/Sharapova had to go through, but there are some measures being taken that the women have that the men don't. It's extremely unfair. If women can have a piddly 10 minute heat break, so should men.

Now, that said, I think it's barbaric anyone thinks it's ethical to compete in 130 degree weather. The match should have been delayed.

This sport is absolutely bonkers.

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Not to minimize the dangers of heat-related injury, but the chances of someone dying on court are actually quite small. Especially with the heat rules they do have, and the access the players have to trainers and other medical staff during the match.

Taking precautions is one thing, but a blanket rule to disrupt matches for what is basically a fitness and acclimation problem for individual players (I do give Maria credit for fighting through obvious pain and discomfort, but please note that Camille Pin was playing in the exact same conditions that she was) is another.


I agree, dying on court certainly isn't common; most probably a player would collapse and then die a bit later after being taken out on a stretcher. Maria is, however, very fit - she has been practising a lot in the heat, in fact. Playing for three hours in 120 F may not bother some, like Camille, but is that reason enough to risk everyone's health?

Those people who do die from heat-related causes are usually in poor physical shape, i.e. the very young or elderly but I remember reading in the past couple years about several football players in the US who died after collapsing during pre-season practise in the summer heat.

KishG
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:04 PM
What I really don't understand is why didn't they close the roof during the Pin-Sharapova match? Obviously not whilst they were playing but during the ten mintue heat effect rule? I couldn't give a damn about "Match flow" or who wins/loses as tennis is just a game. It shouldn't get this far, to the point where Sharapova had heat illness. It doesn't matter if Camilie was feeling ok they still should have done something as it was well over the heat regulations and dangerous for both players; even though Camilie was apparently ok. The tournament is a shambles as it's not fulfilling player safety. It's nice to see where the tournament directors priorities are! I guess something drastic has to happen in order for the tournament Directors to get a wake-up call. In fact, this is more reason to why the tournament should not be in January.

I hope something is done about it soon. Sharapova didn't even smile when she won. She just flung her arms up in the air and looked as if she was about to collapse. Actually, I think she did smile but it was weak. Not like Sharapova at all.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Heat is part of tennis and every player should be able to play in all conditions. It pays off to have great fitness and physical conditioning to be able to withstand the heat. There are some players who can play in the heat and are mostly unaffected, this is because they have trained for it.




heat is a part of tennis, but - and this is a very important point - beyond a certain level of extreme heat, it is no longer about fitness and conditioning.

It is about brinksmanship and who is more willing to risk their life. The players should not be put in that position.

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:35 PM
:rolleyes:
I wouldn't be so definite. Couple of years ago a healthy American football player died after his practice. I'm sure he thought he needed to tough it out and it was just heat.

Unless you have played in a heat like this you really don'y know what you are talking about. :p


Oops - I posted about this before I read your post. But that same year more than one athlete died from the heat.

Volcana
Jan 16th, 2007, 06:51 PM
Tennis has been played in the heat for a century. Why do we need a heat rule now anyway? I believe in global warming, but it's not THAT much warmer.

goldenlox
Jan 16th, 2007, 07:29 PM
They play American football in this weather all the time.
Thay also play in extreme cold.
Players have to retire from the match, or deal with it.

Sharapova said after the match that she's played in this kind of heat before, only not this long a match.

Sefo
Jan 16th, 2007, 07:39 PM
What I really don't understand is why didn't they close the roof during the Pin-Sharapova match? Obviously not whilst they were playing but during the ten mintue heat effect rule?

The commentator said it takes about 27min. to close the roof (at about 1.2 meters/min speed).

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 07:44 PM
They play American football in this weather all the time.
Thay also play in extreme cold.
Players have to retire from the match, or deal with it.

Sharapova said after the match that she's played in this kind of heat before, only not this long a match.


They play American football in 120 degree heat (which was the courtside temperature) all the time???:lol:

What are you on, Goldy? The football season is fall through winter. The teams PRACTISE in the summer and this is when the deaths mentioned earlier occured. There was an uproar in the press, with many calling for changes in the way practices were held, such as longer rests, more hydration, and not urging an athlete to keep going when he felt the effects of heat exhaustion. I believe these changes were implemented.

Hawn
Jan 16th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Tennis has been played in the heat for a century. Why do we need a heat rule now anyway? I believe in global warming, but it's not THAT much warmer.

It's obviously a bit more physical now more than ever, and every degree hotter this world is has extreme consequences. In Australia especially, the rebound ace has the material that can absorb and amplify the on-court heat. Martina and Jennifer had to play in 118 degree weather in 2002. It could have cost Hingis the title though props to Jen of course.

Also, regardless of how much electrolytes one consumes and how in shape one is, stifling heat can claim anyone running on the court for hours.

Orion
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Why do you think they have the heat rule? Because it is DANGEROUS to play all out professional tennis in 120 degree heat! :mad: Do you want to see people die for your satisfaction?

People die even walking aropund in such temperatures. Even the local wildlife goes and hides under a rock!

The idiots who run the AO should be condemned. If it is too dangerous for SOME players to play, it is too dangerous for ALL players to play. The roof should have been closed at the end of the 1st set in which the temperature goes over the limit?

If someone feels that close to death, do you honestly think they'll keep going? Pro's withdraw from matches for worse reasons all the time.

My point is, they are professional tennis players. They know where and when this ANNUAL tournament is held. They know what is needed to prepare. If they don't anticipate matches lasting over two hours, they have only themselves to blame.

I was pulling for Hingis against Capriati, but it was a fair win. If you don't put in the work to win over the course of a LONG match out in the sun, you don't deserve sympathy.

I think Sharapova fans are just a little upset that she almost got beat because she underestimated what her opponent could do, and are looking for an easy excuse. Sure, the heat played a factor, but Pin was out there just as long (and running an awful lot more), yet I don't see her fans aren't crying foul. She put in the endurance work, and choked. Sharapova didn't, and lucked out.

If a pro ever dies while playing in the sun, I would be very sad. But if they are that unaware of their bodies, they shouldn't be professional athletes.

shirgan
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:52 PM
I'm sure she put on sunscreen before the match; most sunscreen is not visible. But when it wore off because of three hours of sweating and toweling off in 120 degree heat - what was she to do? Call for a timeout to reapply it?:shrug:
or maybe not wear clothes that expose her so much to the sun, if she knows she has to be in the sun for so many hours and the sunscreen may not last.
It's not like an exposed back is necessary to play tennis ... :rolleyes:

Orion
Jan 16th, 2007, 08:57 PM
:rolleyes:
I wouldn't be so definite. Couple of years ago a healthy American football player died after his practice. I'm sure he thought he needed to tough it out and it was just heat.

Unless you have played in a heat like this you really don'y know what you are talking about. :p

I think calling any American football player healthy is a stretch. It is, by nature, an unhealthy sport. If you were to test for steroidal/muscle supplement abuse in the NFL (or in the aforementioned player) it would be horrifying. Why do you think they don't have the same rules?

Furthermore, his conditions were WAY worse than yesterday. He carried about 100 more pounds on less height; the humidity drained him of all his fluids; he was wearing 25 odd pounds of equipment (thick and HOT equipment). Tennis players barely wear clothes.

Maybe that's the best solution; when they need a second "medical" time out, they can either forfeit or play nude. It would make it more watchable, don't you think?

This entire thread is a ridiculous rehash of upset fans whose favorite player either lost a match in the heat, or almost did.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:04 PM
My point is, they are professional tennis players. They know where and when this ANNUAL tournament is held. They know what is needed to prepare. If they don't anticipate matches lasting over two hours, they have only themselves to blame.




you can't "prepare" for on-court temps of 130 degrees. No other tournament in the world is held under anything resembling such conditions.

Orion
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:12 PM
If you can't prepare for 130 degree heat (is it just me, or does the number seem to get higher each post?), explain how Pin stayed so fresh?

Sharapova didn't do the work. She doesn't deserve pity, and the rules certainly shouldn't be changed, simply because it got too hot for her body to keep on running.

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:19 PM
If you can't prepare for 130 degree heat (is it just me, or does the number seem to get higher each post?), explain how Pin stayed so fresh?

Sharapova didn't do the work. She doesn't deserve pity, and the rules certainly shouldn't be changed, simply because it got too hot for her body to keep on running.

you obviously havent a clue what you on about :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

you take two people of same fitness, even if they just sat there doing nothing in 130 degree heat, ONE would feel it earlier than the other.

its got nothing to do with fitness.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:27 PM
If you can't prepare for 130 degree heat (is it just me, or does the number seem to get higher each post?), explain how Pin stayed so fresh?

Sharapova didn't do the work. She doesn't deserve pity, and the rules certainly shouldn't be changed, simply because it got too hot for her body to keep on running.


it has nothing to do with "doing the work" or preparation, and this thread is not about any particular player. Pin was in just as much danger as Sharapova, and Nalbandian and Tipsarevic were in even more danger because they were out there longer.

the air temp was 105 and the on court temp was 125-130. Those aren't made up figures, they are actual measurements. The next hottest tournie, the USO, on a really hot day the air temp is 90 and on-court is 110. That's a huge difference.

goldenlox
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:33 PM
What are you on, Goldy? The football season is fall through winter. The teams PRACTISE in the summer and this is when the deaths mentioned earlier occured. There was an uproar in the press, with many calling for changes in the way practices were held, such as longer rests, more hydration, and not urging an athlete to keep going when he felt the effects of heat exhaustion. I believe these changes were implemented.
They played a college football game at Giants Stadium a few years ago around Sept 1, and it was 100 degrees. And they played.
If it's 100 in Arizona, of Florida, or Texas, they play the games.

!<blocparty>!
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:33 PM
I don't know about some of you lot but I can barely SIT outside in that kind of heat, nevermind play a 3 hour tennis match. I wonder how many of the people agreeing with this dumb rule have played in 35 degree+ heat before.

They stop for rain. They should stop for sun.

!<blocparty>!
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:39 PM
They played a college football game at Giants Stadium a few years ago around Sept 1, and it was 100 degrees. And they played.
If it's 100 in Arizona, of Florida, or Texas, they play the games.

What are you talking about. They played one game "a few YEARS ago"?! Yeah, this must happen all the time. :rolleyes: You can hardly compare the two sports. If someone isn't feeling great in a football match (do most of them actually move, anyway?) then they can just go off and be replaced.

goldenlox
Jan 16th, 2007, 09:39 PM
They stop for rain. They should stop for sun.
So only play if it's cloudy? :lol:

!<blocparty>!
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:02 PM
So only play if it's cloudy? :lol:

Is this supposed to be clever or are you just plain stupid. :lol:

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:04 PM
so why do the Aus Open organisers stop play when it rains ??
cos its dangerous.

"they dont say, carry on playing cos you've started so you finish.
it would be unfair to close the roof now cos the conditions will be different"

it doesnt take a rocket science to work this out
apply the same logic to EHP.

goldenlox
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:11 PM
They don't start the match if it's raining. But they start when it's hot. You think they will cancel an afternoon USO session because it's a hot day?

athake
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:15 PM
If you can't prepare for 130 degree heat (is it just me, or does the number seem to get higher each post?), explain how Pin stayed so fresh?

Sharapova didn't do the work. She doesn't deserve pity, and the rules certainly shouldn't be changed, simply because it got too hot for her body to keep on running.

Tallers and whites are effected much more from the heat, its a biological fact.
Thats why Pigmes living at equator heat are black and 150cm tall.

What do u suggest to Maria, work on be black and shorter :)

Corswandt
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:15 PM
For the players who've already begun their matches, the AO heat rule is a bit like shooting them in the stomach and then giving them a band aid.

And it's good to see that some Australians are finally questioning the wisdom of holding the AO at this time of the year.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:16 PM
They don't start the match if it's raining. But they start when it's hot. You think they will cancel an afternoon USO session because it's a hot day?


it never gets that hot at USO for it to be necessary. I don't think they have had a day reach 90 degrees during main draw at the USO in the last 15 years. I remember the day of the women's final in 1989 it was 93 degrees, because i was there, but it's never been that hot since.

goldenlox
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:21 PM
it never gets that hot at USO for it to be necessary. I don't think they have had a day reach 90 degrees during main draw at the USO in the last 15 years. I remember the day of the women's final in 1989 it was 93 degrees, because i was there, but it's never been that hot since.You tell me...
Do they play NFL and college games in extreme heat, or not?

Can you imagine them stopping play in NYC because it's hot?
The NYC media would laugh the sport out of town.

jacobruiz
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:22 PM
or maybe not wear clothes that expose her so much to the sun, if she knows she has to be in the sun for so many hours and the sunscreen may not last.
It's not like an exposed back is necessary to play tennis ... :rolleyes:


Okay, you're right about that.

vogus
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:22 PM
And it's good to see that some Australians are finally questioning the wisdom of holding the AO at this time of the year.




it's a lottery. They've gotten away with it for a bunch of years now, but sooner or later they are going to get crushed by another heat wave like the one they had in 1997. And when it happens they might not be able to play matches on the outside courts for a week.

antonella
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Tallers and whites are effected much more from the heat, its a biological fact.
Thats why Pigmes living at equator heat are black and 150cm tall.

What do u suggest to Maria, work on be black and shorter :)


Out of *mild* curiosity, just exactly what is a 'taller'??

Corswandt
Jan 16th, 2007, 10:46 PM
it's a lottery. They've gotten away with it for a bunch of years now, but sooner or later they are going to get crushed by another heat wave like the one they had in 1997. And when it happens they might not be able to play matches on the outside courts for a week.

What gets to me is that, when you point out that playing the AO at the very height of the Australian summer means not only screwing the whole ATP/WTA schedule but also risking the player's health, you get replies like "We can't move the tournament back because it would no longer coincide with Australian school vacations".

Because whatever's more convenient for the live crowds is the only criterium the scheduling of a tournament has to meet.

adam_ads_n
Jan 16th, 2007, 11:01 PM
For me that was a bit shocking that all the games (even in the lower courts) weren't suspended, and players had to finish them. On two courts with roof they could have closed it during longer break (for ex. they should give them 25 minutes). On the courts without roof play should be suspended as it is when it rains. I think that was Tipsarević who retired due to heat ilness yesterday, right? This wouldn't happen if he was able to take some rest and play in normal conditions.

klok
Jan 16th, 2007, 11:32 PM
If it is too hot for new matches to start then surely it is too hot for matches already in progress to continue. When it gets too hot they should only play in the stadiums with a roof (and make sure the roof is closed). There were a few instances yesterday of players not being able to move after 1 set of tennis, that has to be putting the health of players at risk.

vogus
Jan 17th, 2007, 10:07 PM
What gets to me is that, when you point out that playing the AO at the very height of the Australian summer means not only screwing the whole ATP/WTA schedule but also risking the player's health, you get replies like "We can't move the tournament back because it would no longer coincide with Australian school vacations".

Because whatever's more convenient for the live crowds is the only criterium the scheduling of a tournament has to meet.


well, in that argument, i think the AO has the right to schedule the tournie when it's best for them. An AO occasionally disrupted by extreme heat is, in my view, better than no AO at all. If they say they really can't hold the event in March, i don't think anyone can force them to do so.

*JR*
Jan 17th, 2007, 11:31 PM
To some extent its the players' own fault (for not uniting and refusing to play in these hazardous conditions).

silverarrows
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:16 AM
If someone feels that close to death, do you honestly think they'll keep going? Pro's withdraw from matches for worse reasons all the time.

My point is, they are professional tennis players. They know where and when this ANNUAL tournament is held. They know what is needed to prepare. If they don't anticipate matches lasting over two hours, they have only themselves to blame.

I was pulling for Hingis against Capriati, but it was a fair win. If you don't put in the work to win over the course of a LONG match out in the sun, you don't deserve sympathy.

I think Sharapova fans are just a little upset that she almost got beat because she underestimated what her opponent could do, and are looking for an easy excuse. Sure, the heat played a factor, but Pin was out there just as long (and running an awful lot more), yet I don't see her fans aren't crying foul. She put in the endurance work, and choked. Sharapova didn't, and lucked out.

If a pro ever dies while playing in the sun, I would be very sad. But if they are that unaware of their bodies, they shouldn't be professional athletes.





^^^ very well said. Part of being a tennis player is fitness. The heat is there and will always be there. It is part of the game. It is a test to their fitness. :cool:

vogus
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:27 AM
To some extent its the players' own fault (for not uniting and refusing to play in these hazardous conditions).




there is less labor cooperation in tennis than in other sports, for obvious reasons. It's hard to cooperate when everyone is a rival.

Steffica Greles
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:31 AM
it's ridiculous to start these matches at 11am when it's 33 degrees C and obviously going up to 39-40 C during the course of the matches. They need to extend the heat rule to protect the players who are on court in the opening matches - everybody else is protected, so why not the players who go on court first? It's an extremely dangerous situation to have anyone playing for multiple hours at 100 degrees (which is like 130 degrees oncourt).
Sharapova looked like she was dangerously close to collapse at the end of that match.

Totally agree.

I've followed tennis since c1993, and there always were sweltering hot days in Australia, 1997 being a memorable year when Graf, Sanchez-Vicario, Martinez and Davenport all wilted under the heat during one particularly stifling day, each losing in upsets. But I must admit that it's only in the last 5 years that the heat seems to have intensified to the extent that it has become regular for several days of the Open to be dangerously hot.

And, given that global warming is said to be accelerating, not only is this no surprise, but it is likely to get worse. And like you said, somebody will get killed. The ITF or whoever really need to respond to these climate changes, otherwise a player will die -- and that's no exaggeration.

drake3781
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:32 AM
Last tournament I was at, at each changeover somebody took each player's body temperature and recorded it on a clipboard. I assume they were watching for signs of overheating... maybe there was a cutoff temperature at which they had to take a break? Anybody seen this berfore? I suppose they aren't doing that at AO?

BTW the way they took the temperature was to hold the thermomter at her back, maybe it was near her neck (I can't quite remember). The player could pretty much ignore that it was happening.

Has anybody seen this temperature check, and/or have any comment about it?

ImaVeggie
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:33 AM
"To some extent its the players' own fault (for not uniting and refusing to play in these hazardous conditions)."

So true. Hazardous and unfair.

"Part of being a tennis player is fitness. The heat is there and will always be there. It is part of the game. It is a test to their fitness."

I just can't understand this argument because then play should not be suspended at all for those matches that haven't started yet. Let everyone play in the Extreme Heat to test their fitness not just those unlucky ones whose matches have started already.

vogus
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:37 AM
Totally agree.

I've followed tennis since c1993, and there always were sweltering hot days in Australia, 1997 being a memorable year when Graf, Sanchez-Vicario, Martinez and Davenport all wilted under the heat during one particularly stifling day, each losing in upsets. But I must admit that it's only in the last 5 years that the heat seems to have intensified to the extent that it has become regular for several days of the Open to be dangerously hot.




actually, since the famous heatwave of 1997, there have been very few instances of 100+ temps at the AO. They have just been lucky. Tuesday was the first time that we've really seen how ugly and unjust the heat policy can be.

The day of the Hingis-Capriati final in '02 was not even that hot, i think the air temp that day was 33 C. If it had been 38-39 C like it was on Tuesday, i shudder to think what might have happened.

Steffica Greles
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:42 AM
^^^ very well said. Part of being a tennis player is fitness. The heat is there and will always be there. It is part of the game. It is a test to their fitness. :cool:

Look, being British I have become accustomed to milder climes than in the southern hemisphere (although for how much longer I don't know), but when I have visited foreign countries there are times when the sun's rays are so searingly, torturously, blisteringly hot that even local stay indoors.

Players should not be expected to compete in such conditions unless they can be protected from the sun's rays. Perhaps an option might be to close the roof.

Players are not expected to play in rain or snow not because such conditions interfere with the game (after all, they make them play in wind -- just think of the Eastbourne tournament), but because any attempt would be dangerous and players would risk their careers.

In conditions over a certain temperature, players are risking their lives, in my opinion. That is not ethical.

Steffica Greles
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:47 AM
actually, since the famous heatwave of 1997, there have been very few instances of 100+ temps at the AO. They have just been lucky. Tuesday was the first time that we've really seen how ugly and unjust the heat policy can be.

The day of the Hingis-Capriati final in '02 was not even that hot, i think the air temp that day was 33 C. If it had been 38-39 C like it was on Tuesday, i shudder to think what might have happened.

Really? Gosh, that's surprising. Don't ever get me to be weatherman ;)

And to think that it was 6 c hotter than in 2002, when Hingis looked close to death against Capriati. Surely there must have been days at Wimbledon that were 33 c?

Well I guess all I can say then is that they need to set a temperature at which players are either protected by the roof, or prohibited from playing for their own safety.

Marcus1979
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:51 AM
what date was the 2002 Final and the 2003 Final?

goldenlox
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:58 AM
Sharapova quit in her match against Kirilenko in Beijing. She could have stopped in this match. The players can stop whenever they want.

vogus
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:28 AM
Sharapova quit in her match against Kirilenko in Beijing. She could have stopped in this match. The players can stop whenever they want.




which is exactly why the rule needs to be changed.

The heat turns what started out as a tennis match into a potentially deadly game of chicken.

goldenlox
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:33 AM
What if one player wants to play, and one doesn't who decides if 95 is hot or 99

Martian Stacey
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:34 AM
what date was the 2002 Final and the 2003 Final?
I have a feeling 2002 was Australia Day (26th Jan), not sure about 2003 though

goldenlox
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:36 AM
That would be crazy, to stop that Jenn-Martina final.
When do they start again? If that's NY, with no roof, how many days do they wait to finish a match?

Marcus1979
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:40 AM
if thats the case Stacey then the air temperature the day Martina and Jen played reached 37.3°C

in 2003 towards the end of the Open it was very hot
39.1C on Jan 24
44.1C on Jan 25

vogus
Jan 18th, 2007, 03:37 AM
I have a feeling 2002 was Australia Day (26th Jan), not sure about 2003 though


i looked it up in weather history.

High temp listed on the day of the Hingis-Capriati final was 95 F, so right at the threshold of the EHP.

High temp on the day of the 2003 final was an outrageous 111 F, and as i remember that all-Williams final was played indoors.