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~Kiera~
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:09 AM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5205-2547200,00.html

Williams is lost cause

Pat Cash

For all her talk, Serena Williams will never return to the top again

IF ANYBODY is qualified to make deluded statements about tennis, it is a former world No 1 and winner of seven Grand Slam titles. But when Serena Williams arrives in Australia on her first foreign playing trip in a year and announces that it is only a matter of time before she is again dominating the sport, itís time to tell her to get real.

Tennis is unforgiving. You canít let it slide down the list of priorities, only to realise suddenly that playing the sport was what you wanted to do all along. Many have tried to turn back the clock, but nearly all have failed. That list includes Bjorn Borg, John McEnroe, Martina Hingis and, for different reasons, Monica Seles.

Admittedly this quartet experienced some success. The exploits of Hingis reaffirm the belief that a good champion never completely loses the gift, but she has gone only a fraction of the way and the No 1 ranking she held for a couple of years is far out of reach. Why? Tennis moved on in her absence.

The only players I can recall who let things slip, only to climb back to the top, were Andre Agassi and Jennifer Capriati. Williams should ask herself if she has the same dedication. And is she prepared to make the sacrifices? The answer is obvious.

As the saying so often used by McEnroe goes: ďThe older I get, the better player I used to be.Ē I take issue with Mac over many things, but not the merits of those words.

Williams may be in better physical shape this year than when she pitched up for the 2006 Australian Open, but her three matches in Hobart last week were her first in tournament play since the US Open almost four months ago. Add to that the fact that last year she opted not to play outside the US after losing in the third round in Melbourne and you cannot fail to agree that her application is lacking.

The Williams sisters changed the face of womenís tennis, taking power play to previously unimaginable levels. They blazed everybody else out of their path. But Serena clearly has a limited attention span. At her peak she had no patience in the way she played her tennis. Now she does not appear to have the fortitude to stick at what she is trying to do.

I never experienced a fraction of the success and dominance that she enjoyed, but there came a time in my career when everything associated with being a top player seemed suffocating. I wanted to do different things and the thought of heading to the practice court seemed like purgatory. Eventually I realised how much tennis meant to me and tried to make up for lost time, but although the spirit was willing, the body was not. And it made for years of frustration.

In the same way I maintained that my main interest was aspiring to be a rock musician for a couple of years, Williams said she was an actress. She also got involved in the fashion world and seemed to love every second of it. Good on her. She is entitled to do whatever she wants, and if it made her happy, what more could she ask?

Everybody knows she and Venus had no real choice when their father, Richard, decided that much of their childhood would be spent hitting tennis balls. Who can be surprised that this promotes a desire to do something different? But to make such a crass statement on her arrival in Australia was an insult to Amelie Mauresmo and Maria Sharapova, who have risen to the top of the game in her absence.

They are the new winning breed. They are tall and hit the ball just as hard as the Williams sisters, if not harder. Coming through are Jelena Jankovic, Nicole Vaidisova and Ana Ivanovic, who possess similar firepower and just need a little more experience.

There is so much more depth to the womenís game nowadays. No longer do we disregard the first week of a Grand Slam as a warm-up for the real confrontations that are to come.

I still donít expect too many upsets before the quarter-finals, but neither do I expect Serena Williams, currently the worldís 81st-ranked player, with eight Americans above her in the rankings, to be in the mix at the sharp end of the tournament.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:21 AM
:scratch: interesting....it's an opinon....one that I VEHEMENTLY disagree with, but hey, I mean life is all about aspiration breaking the serve of expectation so :yeah: go Ree! Prove HIM wrong too..

wait, wait, isn't this the SAME Pat Cash that said Rogi had to balls and he'd never beat Rafa again? :confused::scratch: I think someone wants some attention.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:22 AM
Isn't this the same Pat Cash that said the women didn't deserve as much money as they make?

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:23 AM
he's just mad because Serena did more in the span of 2 years than he did in his whole career.

Lulu.
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:24 AM
:rolleyes:

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:28 AM
Not surprisingly, Williams fans, instead of actually reading the article, stick to posting "Isn't this the same Pat Cash that blah blah", because it requires much less thinking. Else they might come to the conclusion that this article is spot on.

StarDuvallGrant
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:31 AM
Not surprisingly, Williams fans, instead of actually reading the article, stick to posting "Isn't this the same Pat Cash that blah blah", because it requires much less thinking. Else they might come to the conclusion that this article is spot on.

And not surprisingly Williams bashers simply by the title spin that broken record and agree with any negativity associated with the Williams sisters. Spot on.

msharafan
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:32 AM
i kind of have to agree with him. it may be a little harsh but if serena hasnt being putting in the work and with her current physical condition it doesnt look like she has then how can she be expected to win grand slams. grand slams is about talent and hard work not about talent alone. im not saying serena doesnt know this as im sure she does. but i just dont think she is willing to put the work in because why would she when she can go to the oscars and gala parties and be an actrress. tennis is much more hard work than that and serenas been working hard all her life. so in a way she is well deserved of this break. but if she doesnt get herself into tip top shape and start becoming a major threat in grand slams by the end of this year start of next year i dont think she ever will. i have great respect for serena but really she should get back out on the court and stay there barring more injuries otherwise pack it in cause its no good for her or her fans to be losing to players that most people have never heard of and im sure thats not the legacy she wants to leave behind. so she needs to make a decision she has the talent to get back to the top but she needs to work very hard to get back up there with the likes of sharapova justine and mauresmo.

Kipling
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:33 AM
"[w]hen Serena Williams arrives in Australia on her first foreign playing trip in a year and announces that it is only a matter of time before she is again dominating the sport, itís time to tell her to get real....Tennis moved on in her absence....As the saying so often used by McEnroe goes: ďThe older I get, the better player I used to beĒ ....[t]o make such a crass statement on her arrival in Australia was an insult to Amelie Mauresmo and Maria Sharapova, who have risen to the top of the game in her absence....They are the new winning breed. They are tall and hit the ball just as hard as the Williams sisters, if not harder. Coming through are Jelena Jankovic, Nicole Vaidisova and Ana Ivanovic, who possess similar firepower and just need a little more experience.


Of course the Serena fans disagree with him. He's right.

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:34 AM
And not surprisingly Williams bashers simply by the title spin that broken record and agree with any negativity associated with the Williams sisters. Spot on.
Why don't you offer some constructive criticism of the article then?

In this case Pat Cash IS in a very good position to talk because he has been in a similar situation. And he explains it very well.

DutchieGirl
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Much as I HATE Pat Cash, that article was actually not so bad!

StarDuvallGrant
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:45 AM
Why don't you offer some constructive criticism of the article then?

My constructive criticism goes far and beyond this article because it's in my postings even before this season kicked off and continues to be. Many a Serena fan has shown their doubt to varying degrees and levels if Serena could be back to the player that she once was and have given the reasons why. It's convenient to people such as yourself to simply make a blanket statement and paint all Serena fans with one brush as blind loyalists who won't hear a word of disagreement regarding Serena. And that is not true. That is what I had a problem with. The article speaks to concerns and even has points I and others agree on. It's nothing new as is the consistent bashing that even Serena fans entertain.

In this case Pat Cash IS in a very good position to talk because he has been in a similar situation. And he explains it very well.

Yes and if only you and others would equally read as closely some posts by Serena fans that don't fit into your agenda. Oh well.

Dave.
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:47 AM
Since when did Pat Cash know anything????

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:48 AM
oh well Serena belives in herself, that's all that matters.

SilK
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:50 AM
As much as I love Serena, the guy has a point.

pooh14
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:54 AM
i am not sure if serena will be #1 again.

to be #1, you need to play quite some number of events. i am not sure with this injury trouble she can do that.

but i am quite sure, Serena will win a slam again.

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:59 AM
whenever i need inspiration i watch Venus's speech, and I will never doubt Vee's or Ree's determination or motivation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rcw-5ygIbg

GQGuy1
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:02 AM
Who is Pat Cash? Is he related to Country Music star Johnny Cash.

silverwhite
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:05 AM
I don't think Serena will go deep at the AO either but who is he to say that she won't pick herself up later in the year? :shrug:

50Sense
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:06 AM
It's so easy for anyone to give an opinion on Serena, good or bad, before she plays a tournament as big as the Australian Open because she hasn't shown us anything leading up to the tournament. Hobart is world's away from Rod Laver Arena, so it's hard to judge the condition she's in. Which leaves the door open for a world of assumptions.

Any tennis player knows, however, that it all comes down to what she shows us on court. Only Serena knows what she wants and whether she feels she can win it again. I don't think her comeback is up to nature, or a game that is "passing her by". It's in her hands.

I respect Pat Cash's opinion and believe that he's not saying this out of spite for Serena, but I think he is wrong.

Paneru
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:07 AM
whenever i need inspiration i watch Venus's speech, and I will never doubt Vee's or Ree's determination or motivation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rcw-5ygIbg

Exactly! :cool:

"Never let anyone tell you
you can't do it." :yeah:

Negative people are always eager to
tell you what you can't do. It's only
when you yourself believe it is when
you become a lost cause. IMO.

And even then, the lost can always be found.

LudwigDvorak
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:10 AM
That was a great speech. It made me re-evaluate how I view Serena and a few other people, even my own (often losing) favorites.

<3 you Venus gurl.

So is Serena a lost cause? Nah. No true champion is never a lost cause. Will it be at the AO? Probably not. But it'll happen again.

mboyle
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:12 AM
Serena thinks she can just waltz back unprepared, eating her Big Macs and win titles. She can't. She has to work twice as hard as everyone else to get back into contention, not half as hard. It's great that she has the swagger and attitude of a champion, but her game relies entirely on fitness and speed. She isn't a Sharapova or a Davenport or a Vaidisova or an Ivanovic. She is not as consistent with her strokes as they are. She beats them, at her best, because she can track down five times as many balls as they can, and she beats Clijsters and J2H and company because she tracks down the same number of balls and then hits them back five times as hard. But the point is, her groundstrokes are not good enough to carry her to the top without her speed and fitness. Cash is wrong. She absolutely can get back to no. 1. But I don't think she will, because I don't think she will work hard enough. We will see.

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:13 AM
Exactly! :cool:

"Never let anyone tell you
you can't do it." :yeah:

Negative people are always eager to
tell you what you can't do. It's only
when you yourself believe it is when
you become a lost cause. IMO.

And even then, the lost can always be found.

Very true.

I also loved when Venus said
"I knew I had it in me, and I knew if I fought hard enough and I keept fighting even if I keept falling, I was gonna get up and do it."

sunset
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:14 AM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5205-2547200,00.html

This is right on the money. It's over for the Williams sisters and everyone knows it. Even the die hard fans know it although most will never admit it.
Serena just lost in the third round of a very light hearted tune up event to an unknown unseeded player.
She wears baggy cloths to hide her extra weight and can't buy a 100 mile a hour serve.
Wake up man, it's over. :lol:

G1Player2
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:15 AM
This is right on the money. It's over for the Williams sisters and everyone knows it. Even the die hard fans know it although most will never admit it.
Serena just lost in the third round of a very light hearted tune up event to an unknown unseeded player.
She wears baggy cloths to hide her extra weight and can't buy a 100 mile a hour serve.
Wake up man, it's over. :lol:

If she never played a match again most of her die-hard fans would be happy with her 7 slams. If Jankovic retired, would you be happy with her 0 slams? I think not. :lol: Or Dementieva? Wake up man, it's over.

Paneru
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:16 AM
Serena thinks she can just waltz back unprepared, eating her Big Macs and win titles. She can't. She has to work twice as hard as everyone else to get back into contention, not half as hard. It's great that she has the swagger and attitude of a champion, but her game relies entirely on fitness and speed. She isn't a Sharapova or a Davenport or a Vaidisova or an Ivanovic. She is not as consistent with her strokes as they are. She beats them, at her best, because she can track down five times as many balls as they can, and she beats Clijsters and J2H and company because she tracks down the same number of balls and then hits them back five times as hard. But the point is, her groundstrokes are not good enough to carry her to the top without her speed and fitness. Cash is wrong. She absolutely can get back to no. 1. But I don't think she will, because I don't think she will work hard enough. We will see.


Venus says it all!

Q. Why should we believe that you'll be back to where you were?

VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, I think that at the end of the day, I don't care if you believe or anyone else believes in here, because it's me. So believe what you want to. There's always going to be nay sayers. You may be one of them, I don't know. Guess what, I don't care.

silverwhite
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:17 AM
:spit:

Serena thinks she can just waltz back unprepared, eating her Big Macs and win titles. She can't.

What do you call Hobart then? The fact that she actually played a tournament before the AO (and a Tier IV at that!) shows that she knows that she needs the preparation.

She isn't a Sharapova or a Davenport or a Vaidisova or an Ivanovic. She is not as consistent with her strokes as they are.

I'll give you Sharapova and Davenport but Vaidisova and Ivanovic are consistent with their strokes??? :haha:

But the point is, her groundstrokes are not good enough to carry her to the top without her speed and fitness.

That can be said about nearly every other player. Even Davenport and Pierce are severely hampered if they show up at tournaments unfit.

supergrunt
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:18 AM
oh well Serena belives in herself, that's all that matters.

Didn't Venus say something like "Believe in yourself, becuase no one else will believe in you..." The Williams sisters have been doubted ever since they were children but that didn't stop them.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:18 AM
Since when did Pat Cash know anything????

Since he wrote this article about Serena. When he wrote that other bullshit article some of the same people in here saying he's right were calling him a dumb ass who knows nothing.:rolleyes:

PLP
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:24 AM
This is the biggest load of BULL I think I have ever read and I am surprised that this isn't causing more anger!

1. Monica came back and won a slam and competed near the top of the game...it was a very good comeback!

2. Martina has been back for a year and is already #7 with 2 more titles...hardly a failed comeback and she is just in her mid-20's, Is he a Psychic...Perhaps he does Know how her career will finish :fiery:

3. Serena needs time, give her a break!! Let her win some more matches, again, she is only mid-20's, plenty of time to add to her accomplishments!

Pat is such an ass! :mad:

dreamgoddess099
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:30 AM
This is right on the money. It's over for the Williams sisters and everyone knows it. Even the die hard fans know it although most will never admit it.
Serena just lost in the third round of a very light hearted tune up event to an unknown unseeded player.
She wears baggy cloths to hide her extra weight and can't buy a 100 mile a hour serve.
Wake up man, it's over. :lol:

Excuse me, but if my avatar was of a person who performed so poorly last year that she was thinking of quitting the sport after she lost 10 first and second round matches in a row I wouldn't be talking. Serena on her worst day doesn't do that bad.:rolleyes:

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:31 AM
This is the biggest load of BULL I think I have ever read and I am surprised that this isn't causing more anger!

1. Monica came back and won a slam and competed near the top of the game...it was a very good comeback!

2. Martina has been back for a year and is already #7 with 2 more titles...hardly a failed comeback and she is just in her mid-20's, Is he a Psychic...Perhaps he does Know how her career will finish :fiery:

3. Serena needs time, give her a break!! Let her win some more matches, again, she is only mid-20's, plenty of time to add to her accomplishments!

Pat is such an ass! :mad:
No.

Your post, however, is bull.

Marcus Jordan
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:31 AM
I VEHEMENTLY agree with Pat Cash on this. Though the more Serena talks herself up the sillier she will look. So Serena will get whatever she deserves not from the media but from her own oncourt failings.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:35 AM
Excuse me, but if my avatar was of a person who performed so poorly last year that she was thinking of quitting the sport after she lost 10 first and second round matches in a row I wouldn't be talking. Serena on her worst day doesn't do that bad.:rolleyes:

game.set.and.match :yeah:

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:37 AM
and Serena had a tough off-season
“It was very difficult to say the least,” Serena Williams said of the trial. “Some days you can get upset and be very discouraged. At this point, I was just excited to be able to make it all the way here after such a strenuous off-season mentally.”

bmwofoz
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:39 AM
I'm inclined to agree with the article, it isn't attacking the Williams sisters, its highlighting the obvious,

for Serena or Venus to get back to the top, while they are good enough, its still a long hard road, and the question has to be asked are they prepared to put in the work needed to get back.

The game is forever changing, just Monica and Martina both have been able to return to the top,

but were nowhere as dominated not because they hit the ball less well, but the tour has changed.

Cash makes mention of the Two stand outs Agassi and Capriati, if we look at these 2, they totally changed their attitude to how they approached life, this helped them with their Tennis.

While I can see Serena back in the top 10, I don't think she'll be as good as the Serena of 2001, Venus while a better all round game than Serena, I feel is less like to return, but lets remember 10 years ago did anyone see Capriati winning 3 Slams and being No1.

dansnewbeg
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:40 AM
I never liked the guy, but he's dead on here.

And by the way if Williams ends up winning AO 2007, it doesn't prove she can dominate again. Just produce momentary flashes of brilliance... which may still be worth more than the entire careers of most of the top 10.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:44 AM
whenever i need inspiration i watch Venus's speech, and I will never doubt Vee's or Ree's determination or motivation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rcw-5ygIbg:sad: :tears: :sobbing:

Vee I love you girl! :bigclap: that was AMAZING!

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:49 AM
:sad: :tears: :sobbing:

Vee I love you girl! :bigclap: that was AMAZING!

Who can ever doubt them after hearing that?

morningglory
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:54 AM
He has a point. However, I disagree... her absence hasn't been that long, and when you look at the tour, the direction the game has moved is towards more and more power. Look at the new players; they all have to have some degree of power in their strokes, no more "finesse, slicing, dropshotting" promising youngsters coming up. So, in the scheme of things, I say Serena can catch up with the rest of the batch. It's still the same power game she played when she did the Grand Slam. It's still the same power game she plays now (albeit a lot slower off her feet nowadays, and still lack of consistency, but that can change with training)

Paneru
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:55 AM
it isn't attacking the Williams sisters, its highlighting the obvious,

Just as it wasn't "attacking" for him to suggest simply because
Venus came from the "Slums" she should be grateful for whatever
amount of money the powers that be decide to give her.


WHATEVER.

The Sisters will keep on keeping on. :cool:

winone23
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:01 AM
It doesn't matter what anyone says, critics, haters, lovers, etc..... If Venus and Serena decided that they want their last few years to be their best it will happen. They have the talent to return to the top. If they become manic again like Roddick said they were in their youths, they WILL return to the top. If Venus and Serena are healthy and they decide that they will become manic again, no one is going to stop them!!!!!! Just like Wimby 05 Venus DECIDED that she wanted to win it and no one could deny her!!!!

2moretogo
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:03 AM
I am beginning to think that this is what is wrong with tennis. Raise someone up just to tear them down. It's almost like a catch-22. The Williams Sisters don't want to speak to a hostile media, while the media seems to take issue with the Williams sisters that they obviously know jack-shit about. Seriously. This song and dance is getting old. No other injured players get this much hoopla. When Hingis came back it was like the second coming by these tennis commentators. And maybe that is it. As much as she irritated fans, she was the media darling. The commentators actually give a woman, who gave up (in her own words)! and returned only when the Williams sisters were no longer dominating, as just taking a break and it was all about her shoes.

While, I realize the Williams Sisters short-comings as well as anyone, I take offense to these people making comments about them bec. they have never been fans. I wish they would admit it and move on. Guarantee anything short of winning they will say Serena needs to be committed , while if she wins it will be the end of the woman's game.

Having said that, by refusing to "play the game" the Williams Sisters have created an impossible situation for themselves. One critical comment and they will abandon a person or commentator. While this is admirable under a F' the establishment thinking it makes every early exit or withdrawal that much more contraversial.

UDACHi
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:06 AM
it's true. :shrug:

serena thinks she can just show up and intimidate everyone and play her best no matter what, but nobody is that scared anymore. it's been 2 years since she's played top 10 tennis, and 3 and a half since she was at her best. she's out of shape and barely in the top 100 and is growing older.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:09 AM
Much as I HATE Pat Cash, that article was actually not so bad!
Of course he lied when he said "Everybody knows she and Venus had no real choice when their father, Richard, decided that much of their childhood would be spent hitting tennis balls". :rolleyes: That being said, because he couldn't make it doesn't mean that Serena can't. It's all up to Serena and only time will tell if she wants to put the work into it that it will take to get back to the top.

Why is it disrepectful to anyone because Serena's goal is to be number one and she said it? :confused:

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:11 AM
As much as I love Serena, the guy has a point.
The guy has an opinion.

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:14 AM
Of course he lied when he said "Everybody knows she and Venus had no real choice when their father, Richard, decided that much of their childhood would be spent hitting tennis balls". :rolleyes:
Don't be naive.

What he said is true for 90% of the top WTA Tour players past and present.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:18 AM
whenever i need inspiration i watch Venus's speech, and I will never doubt Vee's or Ree's determination or motivation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rcw-5ygIbg
:worship::worship::worship:

That award always puts a smile on my face.

winone23
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:21 AM
it's true. :shrug:

serena thinks she can just show up and intimidate everyone and play her best no matter what, but nobody is that scared anymore. it's been 2 years since she's played top 10 tennis, and 3 and a half since she was at her best. she's out of shape and barely in the top 100 and is growing older.


Like Roddick said people act like Venus and Serena played like 14 events and they are ranked so low, they are only ranked low b/c they have not played.
Now if they play like 14-15 events and are still ranked low then Houston has a problem.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:21 AM
Serena thinks she can just waltz back unprepared, eating her Big Macs and win titles. She can't. She has to work twice as hard as everyone else to get back into contention, not half as hard. It's great that she has the swagger and attitude of a champion, but her game relies entirely on fitness and speed. She isn't a Sharapova or a Davenport or a Vaidisova or an Ivanovic. She is not as consistent with her strokes as they are. She beats them, at her best, because she can track down five times as many balls as they can, and she beats Clijsters and J2H and company because she tracks down the same number of balls and then hits them back five times as hard. But the point is, her groundstrokes are not good enough to carry her to the top without her speed and fitness. Cash is wrong. She absolutely can get back to no. 1. But I don't think she will, because I don't think she will work hard enough. We will see.
And you know that because :confused:.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:27 AM
Like Roddick said people act like Venus and Serena played like 14 events and they are ranked so low, they are only ranked low b/c they have not played.
Now if they play like 14-15 events and are still ranked low then Houston has a problem.

nothing more to say.

-VSR-
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:29 AM
I respect his opinion, I do, and he has the right to speak his mind. I read the article and it didn't come across like he was writing it to just spite her. I think he made some points, but others, he had not facts to back them up. At the end of the day, it's all an opinion, anything can happen and we'll see.

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:29 AM
i mean what else is Serena gonna say "im fat and im never gonna win another grand slam and i'll never be number 1 agin."??? :rolleyes:
Of course she has belife in herself.

-VSR-
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:30 AM
One more thing, just please, give her time to play at least 5 tournaments in a good span and then judge her. Come March, then we can talk and see where she's at. These things take time.

vogus
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:34 AM
what i like about Cash is that he has the courage to say things directly that gutless commentators like McEnroe and Carillo are always trying to tiptoe around.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:38 AM
it's true. :shrug:

serena thinks she can just show up and intimidate everyone and play her best no matter what, but nobody is that scared anymore. it's been 2 years since she's played top 10 tennis, and 3 and a half since she was at her best. she's out of shape and barely in the top 100 and is growing
older.
When did Serena say that:confused: Yes, she's out of shape but it doesn't mean that she can't get back in shape. It's not as though the people that are playing now are all that great. If they were, Martina wouldn't be seeded where she is. Serena stands as much of a chance has anyone else on tour of being number one again. Yes, she's barely in the top 100 but what would you expect since she's been injuried? :rolleyes:

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:42 AM
Don't be naive.

What he said is true for 90% of the top WTA Tour players past and present.
I'll stop being naive when you stop being such a :tape:

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:43 AM
Serena even said "It's a long road back"

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:45 AM
I'll stop being naive when you stop being such a :tape:
Why don't you address the topic instead of making such a lame comment?

Do you really believe it was Venus' and Serena's own choice to hit millions of tennis balls day in day out? Please. Take off your rose-colored glasses.

bmwofoz
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:11 AM
Just as it wasn't "attacking" for him to suggest simply because
Venus came from the "Slums" she should be grateful for whatever
amount of money the powers that be decide to give her.


WHATEVER.

The Sisters will keep on keeping on. :cool:

I wouldn't be too concerned by that comment considering the suburb Pat Cash comes from is rather middle of the road.

PLP
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:15 AM
I've always thought of him a fairly negative towards women's tennis anyway.

Don't know why his opinion is important, especially considering his obvious bias.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:19 AM
its the usual Pat Cash crap

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:24 AM
Why don't you address the topic instead of making such a lame comment?

Do you really believe it was Venus' and Serena's own choice to hit millions of tennis balls day in day out? Please. Take off your rose-colored glasses.
Yes it was. If you'd seen or read any of their life stories you'd know that, but of course that goes against what you want to believe. Venus and Serena are one of the few tennis players that finished high school before they went on tour. If you'd get the hate out of your eyes maybe you'd be able to see. :tape:

winone23
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:55 AM
Yes it was. If you'd seen or read any of their life stories you'd know that, but of course that goes against what you want to believe. Venus and Serena are one of the few tennis players that finished high school before that went on tour. If you'd get the hate out of your eyes maybe you'd be able to see. :tape:

They are also some of the rare superstars that have attended college. Venus is a few credits from graduating.

Veritas
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:55 AM
It's so easy for anyone to give an opinion on Serena, good or bad, before she plays a tournament as big as the Australian Open because she hasn't shown us anything leading up to the tournament. Hobart is world's away from Rod Laver Arena, so it's hard to judge the condition she's in. Which leaves the door open for a world of assumptions.

Any tennis player knows, however, that it all comes down to what she shows us on court. Only Serena knows what she wants and whether she feels she can win it again. I don't think her comeback is up to nature, or a game that is "passing her by". It's in her hands.

I respect Pat Cash's opinion and believe that he's not saying this out of spite for Serena, but I think he is wrong.

Agreed, but Pat Cash also brought up the examples of Andre Agassi and Jennifer Capriati to show the possibility of a comeback is actually there. How much work Serena's willing to go through is something only she can decide. At this stage, there's no turning back with whatever she chooses. If she wants to stick with tennis, then she's got to put in the work because another year-long break is out of the question. She could get away with it when she's young, but she'll be 26 soon and that's senior in the tennis world.

winone23
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:00 AM
Serena and Venus will be back. If healthy they will be back in the top ten in no time.

starin
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:12 AM
Sunset and GoDominque.....:rolleyes: I don't understand why when I'm looking at threads about Serena Williams you both are in like every single one with something negative to say about her. If you don't like her then don't follow her. If you don't like her fans then don't go into threads about Serena Williams. I don't like Justine so I don't bother reading anything her or spend time trying to write negative things about her. ANyhoo...go find something else to do instead wasting your life following a player you hate.

And Cash's article is fair to an extent. Serena has not shown the dedicatior nor the desire to get back in shape and chalenge at the top. She's been on steady phsyical decline since 2004. I think finally she has realized how much she has let herself go. Her willingness to play a Tier IV event speaks volumes about her desire to get back to the top. Will she get there? Who knows...maybe her body won't ever let her get back to the top no matter how long she trains. As for the rest of his article. I don't see why Serena saying its only a matter of time untill she gets back to the top is insulting to Sharapova, Amelie. Serena and Venus both have an almost delusional sense of confidence in themselves. Their father had those same delusions and look where it got them. Venus was always saying that she would be top player again in 2004, 2005 when she was slumping badly. And look ...she won Wmibledon when noone thought she could. These statements have nothign to do with any other players. It just reflects her inner strength...if anythign I think these delusions will help her regain her former glory (if she can). Second of all Serena is only 25. No that old. And lastly...I don't get when people say the tour has passed Serena and Venus by. Did Amelie suddenly start hitting harder? My point is the same girls Venus and Serena were beating in their prime are still dominating the tour. Yes they've all improved but not by light years. I think Venus showed this in Wimbledon victory. She beat Sharapova who is the best of the youngsters. The game has passed them by but not because its risen to some new unimaginable heights. Its a combination of better players and S/V letting their games slide. :help: sorry post is too long. :tape:

Sir Stefwhit
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:22 AM
Pat Cash simply can't relate to Serena. She's a champion, excuse me a seven time slam champ and over the span of his 15 year career he managed to win a single slam. I honestly believe that champions like Serena and the other greats really do have a different mindset. Nonetheless, he's entitled to his opinion and when it comes to Serena everyone has the need to share theirs. Ultimately what he thinks as well as what countless others think on this forum means absolutely NOTHING.

I still can't believe people give us Serena fans grief for believing in her. Even if she were to lose in the first round I would not only continue being her supporter, but I'd still have faith in her and her game. Part of being a fan is believing. Not to say that it's going to be an easy road back to the top, but unlike sooooo many others, when she won her last slam I wasn't surprised. I believed it could happen all along. Just like I still believe!

cartmancop
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:39 AM
Although he's of course entitled to his opinion, at the end of the day it is just that...

I think it's unwise to consider any multiple slam champ, regardless of who they are, as washed up if they are still physically able to play, but only time will tell...

I also agree with others who say the game hasn't changed as drastically as it had in some of the other 'comeback' stories he mentioned. Their is of course much more depth, but as others said it's gone from power to more power, nothing drastic...certainly nothing that she is incapable of with better fitness, which will take time.

Of course he doesn't seem to have a positive opinion about anyone :lol:

Stamp Paid
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:58 AM
Pat Cash simply can't relate to Serena. She's a champion, excuse me a seven time slam champ and over the span of his 15 year career he managed to win a single slam. I honestly believe that champions like Serena and the other greats really do have a different mindset. Nonetheless, he's entitled to his opinion and when it comes to Serena everyone has the need to share theirs. Ultimately what he thinks as well as what countless others think on this forum means absolutely NOTHING.

I still can't believe people give us Serena fans grief for believing in her. Even if she were to lose in the first round I would not only continue being her supporter, but I'd still have faith in her and her game. Part of being a fan is believing. Not to say that it's going to be an easy road back to the top, but unlike sooooo many others, when she won her last slam I wasn't surprised. I believed it could happen all along. Just like I still believe!

Thats the thing. People in this thread want Serena fans to be humbled totally and want us all to hope Serena makes the 3rd round and be happy if she is able to do that. Im sory, but we are not Jankovic or Vaidisova fans, if Serena is playing, we expect her to do well. Fuck her form, we've all seen this woman do the unbelievable, and over her career she has given her fans more than enough belief in her to last for the rest of her career. These vultures in this thread want us and Serena to be humbled, and to acquiesce to mediocre results and simply hoping for the best. Fuck that, I'm no Ivanovic fan. I'm a fan of Serena f'in Williams, and I expect her to win when she plays. And as long as she is the woman that she is, I wil never stop believing in her ability to be a champion. So Pat Cash raises some interesting points, I can understand where he is coming from, but he doesn't know the Williams sisters. Everyone in their supposed "right mind" knew that Venus Williams was finished as a slam contender, she lost some of her movement, she was losing to every player with any kind of weapon (Molik, Bovina, Golovin) and even some scrubs (Karatancheva), and she wins Wimbledon in 2005. The way they were raised by their parents, yeah ya'll hear them and think of them as arrogant or crass or whatever, but that mentality is what got them to where they are now. If Venus was a lesser player, she would have let everything the media had said about her from the time she lost her slams to Serena in 2002 to 2005 get to her and make her stop believing in herself, but Venus didnt give a damn. The belief remained. Thats one of the biggest gifts their parents gave to them, indomitable belief in the capabilities. She worked on her fitness all year, making sure that she could position herself when it was her time. And when it was her time, she took that shit and shut everyone up.

If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? She is playing Hobart, Bangalore, and she on the grind. There are no delusions of grandeur, look at her low profile in Hobart and in Melbourne. No flash, no glitz, her weave is THROUGH, but Serena is there and came to try her best. If its good enough to win so be it, if not too damn bad. But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.

PLP
Jan 14th, 2007, 07:02 AM
No.

Your post, however, is bull.

No it's not.

Please explain to me why 2 GS champs with 12 GS SIngles titles between them, who are in their mid-20's should now be counted out!

So I suppose that Martina and Serena will just crash out of the game this year, never to be heard from again.

Get back to me in 10 years...

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 07:36 AM
Thats the thing. People in this thread want Serena fans to be humbled totally and want us all to hope Serena makes the 3rd round and be happy if she is able to do that. Im sory, but we are not Jankovic or Vaidisova fans, if Serena is playing, we expect her to do well. Fuck her form, we've all seen this woman do the unbelievable, and over her career she has given her fans more than enough belief in her to last for the rest of her career. These vultures in this thread want us and Serena to be humbled, and to acquiesce to mediocre results and simply hoping for the best. Fuck that, I'm no Ivanovic fan. I'm a fan of Serena f'in Williams, and I expect her to win when she plays. And as long as she is the woman that she is, I wil never stop believing in her ability to be a champion. So Pat Cash raises some interesting points, I can understand where he is coming from, but he doesn't know the Williams sisters. Everyone in their supposed "right mind" knew that Venus Williams was finished as a slam contender, she lost some of her movement, she was losing to every player with any kind of weapon (Molik, Bovina, Golovin) and even some scrubs (Karatancheva), and she wins Wimbledon in 2005. The way they were raised by their parents, yeah ya'll hear them and think of them as arrogant or crass or whatever, but that mentality is what got them to where they are now. If Venus was a lesser player, she would have let everything the media had said about her from the time she lost her slams to Serena in 2002 to 2005 get to her and make her stop believing in herself, but Venus didnt give a damn. The belief remained. Thats one of the biggest gifts their parents gave to them, indomitable belief in the capabilities. She worked on her fitness all year, making sure that she could position herself when it was her time. And when it was her time, she took that shit and shut everyone up.

If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? She is playing Hobart, Bangalore, and she on the grind. There are no delusions of grandeur, look at her low profile in Hobart and in Melbourne. No flash, no glitz, her weave is THROUGH, but Serena is there and came to try her best. If its good enough to win so be it, if not too damn bad. But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.
FUCKIN' PREACH THAT SHIT! :worship::rocker::bowdown: A-FUCKIN'-MEN!

Couver
Jan 14th, 2007, 07:41 AM
This is right on the money. It's over for the Williams sisters and everyone knows it. Even the die hard fans know it although most will never admit it.
Serena just lost in the third round of a very light hearted tune up event to an unknown unseeded player.
She wears baggy cloths to hide her extra weight and can't buy a 100 mile a hour serve.
Wake up man, it's over. :lol:

And yet you're in every single thread about them :lol: I guess the thought of tennis without Venus & Serena scares you. I mean what would you do without them? Your contributions to WTA world are all in threads about Venus & Serena. I guess with them not around you'd actually have to go back to whatever it is you call a life, which I'm guessing judging from all the hate you spew must be pretty sad and pathetic. You could try cheering for you own favorite players, but I think deep down Venus and Serena ARE your favorite players.

Wake UP man, you're obsessed. :lol:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 07:46 AM
:awww: you found out his secret...
http://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum37.gif Welcome :wavey:

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 14th, 2007, 08:00 AM
the big diff before was most of the players were beaten before the match started.
now they all believe they have a chance.

kinda similar situation Mike Tyson found himself in.

Sir Stefwhit
Jan 14th, 2007, 08:03 AM
Thats the thing. People in this thread want Serena fans to be humbled totally and want us all to hope Serena makes the 3rd round and be happy if she is able to do that. Im sory, but we are not Jankovic or Vaidisova fans, if Serena is playing, we expect her to do well. Fuck her form, we've all seen this woman do the unbelievable, and over her career she has given her fans more than enough belief in her to last for the rest of her career. These vultures in this thread want us and Serena to be humbled, and to acquiesce to mediocre results and simply hoping for the best. Fuck that, I'm no Ivanovic fan. I'm a fan of Serena f'in Williams, and I expect her to win when she plays. And as long as she is the woman that she is, I wil never stop believing in her ability to be a champion. So Pat Cash raises some interesting points, I can understand where he is coming from, but he doesn't know the Williams sisters. Everyone in their supposed "right mind" knew that Venus Williams was finished as a slam contender, she lost some of her movement, she was losing to every player with any kind of weapon (Molik, Bovina, Golovin) and even some scrubs (Karatancheva), and she wins Wimbledon in 2005. The way they were raised by their parents, yeah ya'll hear them and think of them as arrogant or crass or whatever, but that mentality is what got them to where they are now. If Venus was a lesser player, she would have let everything the media had said about her from the time she lost her slams to Serena in 2002 to 2005 get to her and make her stop believing in herself, but Venus didnt give a damn. The belief remained. Thats one of the biggest gifts their parents gave to them, indomitable belief in the capabilities. She worked on her fitness all year, making sure that she could position herself when it was her time. And when it was her time, she took that shit and shut everyone up.

If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? She is playing Hobart, Bangalore, and she on the grind. There are no delusions of grandeur, look at her low profile in Hobart and in Melbourne. No flash, no glitz, her weave is THROUGH, but Serena is there and came to try her best. If its good enough to win so be it, if not too damn bad. But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.

I'm through~!!! Nothing else to say!!! :worship:

jazar
Jan 14th, 2007, 09:35 AM
i have to agree with mr cash. she will never get back to the very top, times have changed, there are many more talented players and sometime this year i think the realisation will hit her that it isnt what she wants to do with her life anyone

leopard
Jan 14th, 2007, 09:37 AM
He can write??? :tape:

Seriously, he makes valid points.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jan 14th, 2007, 09:46 AM
OMG pat cash complimented the womens game :eek:

Hagar
Jan 14th, 2007, 09:48 AM
I don't think he is telling anything new here.
Serena's got everything it takes to come back to the top. But it would mean that she has to dedicate herself 200% to tennis, and nothing else but tennis. It would also mean that she has to take very good care of her body in order to avoid injuries.
After a couple of years of power tennis, the player's body becomes fragile which means that a delicate balance between training, rest and exercises to prevent injuries has to be found. If Serena wants to now more about that, she should talk to Kim Clijsters.

I don't think Serena has the courage to do all this although I would love her to be back at the highest level.

The Dawntreader
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:07 AM
On what tennis experiences of being number 1, can Pat Cash draw his crictisms from? he's always looking for reasons to stick the knife in both William sisters. The male mary Carillo:rolleyes:

PLP
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:18 AM
On what tennis experiences of being number 1, can Pat Cash draw his crictisms from? he's always looking for reasons to stick the knife in both William sisters. The male mary Carillo:rolleyes:

:lol:

Yeah, but I would take Mary any day over PC...ugh, just can't stand him! :fiery:

MistyGrey
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:18 AM
He does have a point, but the criticism was a bit severe.

Didnt he predict at the beginning of last year that Hingis would not have any success in her comeback?

Viktymise
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:18 AM
I think only they can get themselves back to the top, i still think they can win slams and beat everyone out there playing still when their fit, healthy and motivated, its just a question for Serena if she's willing to work as hard to get back to peak physical shape and for Vee whether her body can hold up, i honestly think Venus has been hungrier for tennis than Serena for the past couple of yrs but she has just been to injured to do anything about it

PLP
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:19 AM
He does have a point, but the criticism was a bit severe.

Didnt he predict at the beginning of last year that Hingis would not have any success in her comeback?

Yes, and he just said it again in this article...

CrossCourt~Rally
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:26 AM
Yes, and he just said it again in this article...

T hat should show people where his mind is :tape: :help:

winone23
Jan 14th, 2007, 10:47 AM
i have to agree with mr cash. she will never get back to the very top, times have changed, there are many more talented players and sometime this year i think the realisation will hit her that it isnt what she wants to do with her life anyone

If Serena dedicated herself 100% to the sport she would reclaim that top ranking. Times have not changed much.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jan 14th, 2007, 11:09 AM
Thats the thing. People in this thread want Serena fans to be humbled totally and want us all to hope Serena makes the 3rd round and be happy if she is able to do that. Im sory, but we are not Jankovic or Vaidisova fans, if Serena is playing, we expect her to do well. Fuck her form, we've all seen this woman do the unbelievable, and over her career she has given her fans more than enough belief in her to last for the rest of her career. These vultures in this thread want us and Serena to be humbled, and to acquiesce to mediocre results and simply hoping for the best. Fuck that, I'm no Ivanovic fan. I'm a fan of Serena f'in Williams, and I expect her to win when she plays. And as long as she is the woman that she is, I wil never stop believing in her ability to be a champion. So Pat Cash raises some interesting points, I can understand where he is coming from, but he doesn't know the Williams sisters. Everyone in their supposed "right mind" knew that Venus Williams was finished as a slam contender, she lost some of her movement, she was losing to every player with any kind of weapon (Molik, Bovina, Golovin) and even some scrubs (Karatancheva), and she wins Wimbledon in 2005. The way they were raised by their parents, yeah ya'll hear them and think of them as arrogant or crass or whatever, but that mentality is what got them to where they are now. If Venus was a lesser player, she would have let everything the media had said about her from the time she lost her slams to Serena in 2002 to 2005 get to her and make her stop believing in herself, but Venus didnt give a damn. The belief remained. Thats one of the biggest gifts their parents gave to them, indomitable belief in the capabilities. She worked on her fitness all year, making sure that she could position herself when it was her time. And when it was her time, she took that shit and shut everyone up.

If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? She is playing Hobart, Bangalore, and she on the grind. There are no delusions of grandeur, look at her low profile in Hobart and in Melbourne. No flash, no glitz, her weave is THROUGH, but Serena is there and came to try her best. If its good enough to win so be it, if not too damn bad. But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!! BRILLIANT!!!

:worship: :bowdown: :yeah: :bigclap:

jdyshrky
Jan 14th, 2007, 12:24 PM
Well, I guess to some extent he makes valid points but nothing that anyone on here couldn't have pointed out. It's pretty ironic that in one of the few Grand Slams where Serena or Venus are absolute outsiders that articles are still written about them, albeit negative. Justine who? See, the game still needs them.

I have to question his motivation though in publishing an article telling a player that their career is over. At least when Chrissy wrote that open letter she was pleading with Serena to get back to the top. It seems unduly critical, of course we all know Serena hasn't been motivated recently, but when you have a look at the career success she's had so far, and the recent injuries you can understand why the girl might have been confused. She is the most successful player in history currently on the tour and like all stars who peak with such velocity there will inevitably come a time when you reassess things and need to back off. That time is over and Serena is trying to find her groove.

Personally I see her willingness to travel across the world for events she is not even ready to compete in shows her motivation. She knows what she has to do, and it won't happen overnight. It is very easy to write people off, like Jankovic and Nadia's famous run of 1st round stumbles and now look at them. It's not as if Serena has no resources to draw on, and even moreso in Australia, those matches with Kim and Maria. Remember this is a woman who stood on court as Champion of all 4 Slams at the same time, a sensation that must have felt divine, can you really blame her for wanting more? She wasn't beaten off the court like Martina, or dramatically forced off like Monica. Serena had some injuries but made a decision to play less for a while, now she has changed her mind. Only. A. Matter. Of. Time.

supergrunt
Jan 14th, 2007, 12:36 PM
At the end of the day none of us know Serena. We don't know how she truly feels and how she feels she is playing as of late. Therefore any comments made wether they are hateful or supportive are valueless. If Serena believes in herself then who really cares what people think :shrug: . I find it very sad that there are people out there who long for media attention so badly that they mindlessly bash someone on a topic they probally care little about.

nander
Jan 14th, 2007, 12:38 PM
I am not sure what we all expect from athletes, in this case tennis players.
They are not great artistes - musicans etc, painters, intellectuals, rocket scientists. They are people who use their bodies to achieve heights (in various sports) - maybe as a result of genetic predisposition, discipline extensive training or combinations of the above - that we ordinary folk can only dream about. Thank the gods that they do so that we can live vicariously!
Part of the price they pay is that their instruments may break down and often do , i.e. physical injuries. (Of course, there are also 'mental' breakdowns - the thought of hitting another ball or running another sprint becomes anethema to them) . The point is that whereas Picasso was painting as an old man, Ella Fitzgerald sang into her seventies, Wynton Marsalis may play the trumpet until then and some writers and actors seem like good wine, to improve with age, despite Martina Navratilova's exploits, athletic careers are limited (even bearing in mind the Champion's Tour in golf).
Can we therefore enjoy what they are able to give us while they can? The fact that the Williams may or may not reach the same heights as previously does not erase, at least not for me, the pleasure that I got from watching them at their peak. If they could get there again that would be a bonus.
Why waste time dissecting every spoken word? Athletes, American athletes in particular, are taught early to let the world know that they are the best. Sometimes it is so, sometimes it's not. But at least, unlike us, they are out there putiing their asses (some more than others!) on the line.
Let's face it , athletes will age and lose their skills and sometimes interest in their sport, but others come along ..that's how it is.
The Williams did not chose to hit 1 million balls as kids. Can any one tell me which of the current crop, Sharaopva + the host of other Russians, Hingis also made that decision for themselves. Please, give me a break. And guess what, one day they too will be out of it.
Get real, the human body takes just so much and then it says 'no mas'. The
great thing is that athletes can afford us so much pleasure and entertainment.
Let us bear that in mind as we pontificate from our armchairs.

terjw
Jan 14th, 2007, 12:54 PM
On what tennis experiences of being number 1, can Pat Cash draw his crictisms from? he's always looking for reasons to stick the knife in both William sisters. The male mary Carillo:rolleyes:

Since when was Mary Carillo ever a top singles player in her day and what slam did she ever win? I guess you are just too young to remember or bother to find out about any player before 1990. Makes me wonder if you've ever heard of Ivan Lendl, Stefan Edberg, Boris Becker, John Mac, Bjorn Borg?

Anyway Pat Cash was one of the top players in his day - especially on grass. He won Wimbledon in 1987 with some brilliant play. This was not some freak accident. I tipped him along with Stefan Edberg to win. Once I watched Stefan Edberg - I changed my mind and tipped Pat cash as the outright winner.

I basically agree with him here - though I just put it like I personally don't believe she'll actually put in the level of work that Agassi or Capprati did and which I think she need to do to get back up there. And I'm not sure she's even convinced herself that she needs to because winning slams with no preparation has worked so well for her in the past. We'll see what happens anyway. Just playing at Hobart in preparation for the AO when by all accounts she was still overweight and not really match fit doesn't convcince me yet.

msharafan
Jan 14th, 2007, 01:23 PM
no one really can predict whats going to happen to the ws. i dont think they even know themseleves it seems they want to get back to the top but im not sure if they want to spend the hours on the court and the gym to get back to the top. ok they show up for a few tournies here and there and i suppose its not their faults that they seemed to be always plagued with injuries (althought most of the time they turn up for the grand slams) but if they are going to be able to get back to the stop they need to stop blaming injuries.

Mina Vagante
Jan 14th, 2007, 01:24 PM
:lol: Jelous pat:lol:

msharafan
Jan 14th, 2007, 01:25 PM
cause if it is injuries thats really stopping them and not lack of motivation then how are they supposed to get back to the top?

winone23
Jan 14th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Since when was Mary Carillo ever a top singles player in her day and what slam did she ever win? I guess you are just too young to remember or bother to find out about any player before 1990. Makes me wonder if you've ever heard of Ivan Lendl, Stefan Edberg, Boris Becker, John Mac, Bjorn Borg?

Anyway Pat Cash was one of the top players in his day - especially on grass. He won Wimbledon in 1987 with some brilliant play. This was not some freak accident. I tipped him along with Stefan Edberg to win. Once I watched Stefan Edberg - I changed my mind and tipped Pat cash as the outright winner.

I basically agree with him here - though I just put it like I personally don't believe she'll actually put in the level of work that Agassi or Capprati did and which I think she need to do to get back up there. And I'm not sure she's even convinced herself that she needs to because winning slams with no preparation has worked so well for her in the past. We'll see what happens anyway. Just playing at Hobart in preparation for the AO when by all accounts she was still overweight and not really match fit doesn't convcince me yet.

I think this has been the longest running false claim about the Williams sisters. When they were doing well in the slams they didn't just show up with no preparation. They were both in peak physical shape at the slams which means they had to be training for the slams. If they did not prepare they would have shown up out of shape and flabby. Those girls were fit with pure muscles and condtioning.

TonyP
Jan 14th, 2007, 01:34 PM
He has a point, but only if you accept the idea that the only definition of returning to the top is getting the number one ranking.

Monica Seles made a rather well documented return, too, and she managed to win another slam singles title and get to a final. She hovered around in the top five for a number of years. So I consider her return to be highly successful.

I still think Hingis has a shot at another slam, certainly some more success in doubles.

Serena? Cash is correct that she hasn't shown the commitment in the last couple of yearsd and we don't know that she has that commitment now. I think she would show it to start by getting back into shape and the fact that after all these months she shows up in Australia looking visibly overweight seems proof to me that she does NOt have the commitment right now.

But that is not to say she can't change her life around and get it back. She must still care something about the sport. She is not in Australia to sight see.

sunset
Jan 14th, 2007, 01:44 PM
If she never played a match again most of her die-hard fans would be happy with her 7 slams. If Jankovic retired, would you be happy with her 0 slams? I think not. :lol: Or Dementieva? Wake up man, it's over.

I am very happy that Jankovic just opened up a can of whoop-ass on both Serena and Venus. :lol: :lol: :lol:

jenny161185
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:07 PM
yes the same Pat Cash who totally wrote off Hinig last year and the same pat Cash who after splitting from coaching greg rusedski tried to sell stories about hima and his wife to the tabloids.....

lizchris
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:20 PM
The reason why many Venus and Serena fans don't take Pat Cash sereiously is:

This is the same man who said they need to get rid of their father as coach because he was a distraction to their careers (and he said that when they were ar the top:rolleyes: :mad: )

This is the same person who admitted to tanking matches, sonething V&S never did, soo why would anyone take this person serioiusly?

It is funny that there are at least two articles on this board about a perosn who isn't even seeded at the AO and who isn't even in the top 50. I guess it goes to show whn is really the face of tennis, just based on the length of this article.

Foot_Fault
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:24 PM
It actually was a good article! I liked it. Serena and Venus both have declined. They've both acknowledged it. So i know, they feel that if they want to get back to the top, it takes Work.

I just don't like all the spewing.

TomTennis
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:25 PM
Pat Cash poses a point, but hopefully Serena can shut all these people up.

It is going to be hard, and an early loss at the AO may not come as a massive suprise, but hopefully Serena can do everything she can to get back to the top. Its been done before.

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:26 PM
Pat Cash poses a point, but hopefully Serena can shut all these people up.

It is going to be hard, and an early loss at the AO may not come as a massive suprise, but hopefully Serena can do everything she can to get back to the top. Its been done before.
Not by Serena though.

harloo
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:31 PM
Isn't this the same Pat Cash that said the women didn't deserve as much money as they make?


There is so much more depth to the womenís game nowadays. No longer do we disregard the first week of a Grand Slam as a warm-up for the real confrontations that are to come


:lol: Pat needs to stop contradicting himself. He was denigrating the WTA for not having strong competition, but now he turns around and says the field is competitve first week out. Give me a break.

harloo
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:40 PM
I am beginning to think that this is what is wrong with tennis. Raise someone up just to tear them down. It's almost like a catch-22. The Williams Sisters don't want to speak to a hostile media, while the media seems to take issue with the Williams sisters that they obviously know jack-shit about. Seriously. This song and dance is getting old. No other injured players get this much hoopla. When Hingis came back it was like the second coming by these tennis commentators. And maybe that is it. As much as she irritated fans, she was the media darling. The commentators actually give a woman, who gave up (in her own words)! and returned only when the Williams sisters were no longer dominating, as just taking a break and it was all about her shoes.

While, I realize the Williams Sisters short-comings as well as anyone, I take offense to these people making comments about them bec. they have never been fans. I wish they would admit it and move on. Guarantee anything short of winning they will say Serena needs to be committed , while if she wins it will be the end of the woman's game.

Having said that, by refusing to "play the game" the Williams Sisters have created an impossible situation for themselves. One critical comment and they will abandon a person or commentator. While this is admirable under a F' the establishment thinking it makes every early exit or withdrawal that much more contraversial.


:worship: :worship:

Kart
Jan 14th, 2007, 02:44 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5205-2547200,00.html

He's right to a point that Serena's comments are probably a bit over the top but she's always been like that.

The fact is that if she is motivated to play enough and train enough, she can get back to the top simply due to the nature of her game.

He doesn't have to make it sound so harsh though because all he's really doing is enforcing the opinion held by many that he's not objective when writing about WTA.

Honestly I don't really understand why he feels the need to write this article or to grind an axe that many have repeatedly in the past - Serena's ranked way out of the top ten.

Until she produces some good results in her comeback, there are other players more worthy of the attention :shrug:.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:39 PM
Sunset and GoDominque.....:rolleyes: I don't understand why when I'm looking at threads about Serena Williams you both are in like every single one with something negative to say about her. If you don't like her then don't follow her. If you don't like her fans then don't go into threads about Serena Williams. I don't like Justine so I don't bother reading anything her or spend time trying to write negative things about her. ANyhoo...go find something else to do instead wasting your life following a player you hate.

And Cash's article is fair to an extent. Serena has not shown the dedicatior nor the desire to get back in shape and chalenge at the top. She's been on steady phsyical decline since 2004. I think finally she has realized how much she has let herself go. Her willingness to play a Tier IV event speaks volumes about her desire to get back to the top. Will she get there? Who knows...maybe her body won't ever let her get back to the top no matter how long she trains. As for the rest of his article. I don't see why Serena saying its only a matter of time untill she gets back to the top is insulting to Sharapova, Amelie. Serena and Venus both have an almost delusional sense of confidence in themselves. Their father had those same delusions and look where it got them. Venus was always saying that she would be top player again in 2004, 2005 when she was slumping badly. And look ...she won Wmibledon when noone thought she could. These statements have nothign to do with any other players. It just reflects her inner strength...if anythign I think these delusions will help her regain her former glory (if she can). Second of all Serena is only 25. No that old. And lastly...I don't get when people say the tour has passed Serena and Venus by. Did Amelie suddenly start hitting harder? My point is the same girls Venus and Serena were beating in their prime are still dominating the tour. Yes they've all improved but not by light years. I think Venus showed this in Wimbledon victory. She beat Sharapova who is the best of the youngsters. The game has passed them by but not because its risen to some new unimaginable heights. Its a combination of better players and S/V letting their games slide. :help: sorry post is too long. :tape:
Wonderful post. :worship:

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:43 PM
Although he's of course entitled to his opinion, at the end of the day it is just that...

I think it's unwise to consider any multiple slam champ, regardless of who they are, as washed up if they are still physically able to play, but only time will tell...

I also agree with others who say the game hasn't changed as drastically as it had in some of the other 'comeback' stories he mentioned. Their is of course much more depth, but as others said it's gone from power to more power, nothing drastic...certainly nothing that she is incapable of with better fitness, which will take time.

Of course he doesn't seem to have a positive opinion about anyone :lol:
Ain't that the truth. :lol:

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:49 PM
And yet you're in every single thread about them :lol: I guess the thought of tennis without Venus & Serena scares you. I mean what would you do without them? Your contributions to WTA world are all in threads about Venus & Serena. I guess with them not around you'd actually have to go back to whatever it is you call a life, which I'm guessing judging from all the hate you spew must be pretty sad and pathetic. You could try cheering for you own favorite players, but I think deep down Venus and Serena ARE your favorite players.

Wake UP man, you're obsessed. :lol:
Right on :lol::lol::lol:

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 03:57 PM
i have to agree with mr cash. she will never get back to the very top, times have changed, there are many more talented players and sometime this year i think the realisation will hit her that it isnt what she wants to do with her life anyone
That part could be true but it wouldn't be because she can't, it would be because she doesn't have to. Thanks again to their parents that taught them to have a life outside of tennis.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Well, I guess to some extent he makes valid points but nothing that anyone on here couldn't have pointed out. It's pretty ironic that in one of the few Grand Slams where Serena or Venus are absolute outsiders that articles are still written about them, albeit negative. Justine who? See, the game still needs them.

I have to question his motivation though in publishing an article telling a player that their career is over. At least when Chrissy wrote that open letter she was pleading with Serena to get back to the top. It seems unduly critical, of course we all know Serena hasn't been motivated recently, but when you have a look at the career success she's had so far, and the recent injuries you can understand why the girl might have been confused. She is the most successful player in history currently on the tour and like all stars who peak with such velocity there will inevitably come a time when you reassess things and need to back off. That time is over and Serena is trying to find her groove.

Personally I see her willingness to travel across the world for events she is not even ready to compete in shows her motivation. She knows what she has to do, and it won't happen overnight. It is very easy to write people off, like Jankovic and Nadia's famous run of 1st round stumbles and now look at them. It's not as if Serena has no resources to draw on, and even moreso in Australia, those matches with Kim and Maria. Remember this is a woman who stood on court as Champion of all 4 Slams at the same time, a sensation that must have felt divine, can you really blame her for wanting more? She wasn't beaten off the court like Martina, or dramatically forced off like Monica. Serena had some injuries but made a decision to play less for a while, now she has changed her mind. Only. A. Matter. Of. Time.
Thank you and welcome.:bigwave:

Mother_Marjorie
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Well, I guess to some extent he makes valid points but nothing that anyone on here couldn't have pointed out. It's pretty ironic that in one of the few Grand Slams where Serena or Venus are absolute outsiders that articles are still written about them, albeit negative. Justine who? See, the game still needs them.
The absence of Justine at the AO was felt because she was a favorite to win. However, when Serena and Venus show up at tournaments now, they are not favorites to win tournaments.

That's the difference.

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:09 PM
mykarma, are you Denise II? :tape:

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:11 PM
no one really can predict whats going to happen to the ws. i dont think they even know themseleves it seems they want to get back to the top but im not sure if they want to spend the hours on the court and the gym to get back to the top. ok they show up for a few tournies here and there and i suppose its not their faults that they seemed to be always plagued with injuries (althought most of the time they turn up for the grand slams) but if they are going to be able to get back to the stop they need to stop blaming injuries.
:lol::lol::lol::rolleyes::tape:

Mother_Marjorie
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:14 PM
The game has passed them by but not because its risen to some new unimaginable heights. Its a combination of better players and S/V letting their games slide. :help: sorry post is too long. :tape:
The game passed them by because S/V bodies couldn't withstand the punishment they put upon it while "raising the level" of power tennis. In essence, they were a victim of their own creation.

I never understood why they were given credit for changing tennis, when they themselves couldn't sustain that level of play which created a plethora of injuries on tour.

Even the most recent past champions who were credited with changing the game were able to sustain the game once they put their stamp on it: Evert, Navratilova, Graf.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:18 PM
mykarma, are you Denise II? :tape:
Why? Because we think you're an idiot like the majority of posters think.:lol::tape:

-GenEz.Williams
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:19 PM
oh my god IF serena wins the australian open..heīs gonna eat his shit words!!
but it was a very interesting article...
pat cash loser..

GoDominique
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Why? Because we think you're an idiot like the majority of posters think.:lol::tape:
Um no.

Mother_Marjorie
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:44 PM
If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

PatrickRyan
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:46 PM
well rehab sometimes makes players gain weight, look at capriati when she was rehabing earlier this year. Im sure rehabing and the trial took a toll on her fitness.

vogus
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:48 PM
here's the bottom line to the discussion. Serena Williams (unlike, in my view, her sister) is still CAPABLE of returning to a pre-eminent position in tennis. She showed when she whipped Ivanovic at the USO that her fundamentals as a competitor are still there. What Serena desperately needs to learn is that her trash talk isn't helping her cause. To get back to the top, she needs to shut her damn mouth and start putting in the hard work. That's what champions do. If another 2 years go by and Serena hasn't committed herself, tennis is going to be over for her. Time is a precious commodity for her now.

Hagar
Jan 14th, 2007, 04:48 PM
Remember this is a woman who stood on court as Champion of all 4 Slams at the same time, a sensation that must have felt divine, can you really blame her for wanting more? She wasn't beaten off the court like Martina, or dramatically forced off like Monica. Serena had some injuries but made a decision to play less for a while, now she has changed her mind. Only. A. Matter. Of. Time.

I find fans of Venus and Serena very biased, as biased as the sisters themselves in the sense that they cannot accept justified criticism.

NOBODY blames Serena for wanting more. As a matter of fact, every true tennis fan wants the sisters back at the top. The thing is that they are ridiculing themselves if they say that they want to come back at the top, but refuse to do the work that is needed to get there. Power is not enough! They are paying the price for making capital mistake: they forgot the technique. Tennis technique is important because it teaches one to hit the ball in the most effective way so that your body is spared.
No player on the WTA tour will still be impressed by the sheer fact that it is a Williams sister on the other side of the net. Hitting hard will also not be enough because the ball has to be in the court and over the net. And there are a lot of fit girls on the tour nowadays, so they'd better work on their fitness because it will be hard to make a difference there.

The sisters can only come back if they are prepared to work very hard and to take good care of their bodies. The wear and tear of having been a top tennis player, lets itself be felt after a couple of years on the tour so I think it is harder when you are 25 than when you are 20.

I hope Venus and Serena will do the work because their current situation is a damn shame.

nander
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:03 PM
The game passed them by because S/V bodies couldn't withstand the punishment they put upon it while "raising the level" of power tennis. In essence, they were a victim of their own creation.

I never understood why they were given credit for changing tennis, when they themselves couldn't sustain that level of play which created a plethora of injuries on tour.

Even the most recent past champions who were credited with changing the game were able to sustain the game once they put their stamp on it: Evert, Navratilova, Graf.

So tell me, the other 'power players' are not going to pay the price?
I suggest that it is just a matter of time.

Mother_Marjorie
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:08 PM
So tell me, the other 'power players' are not going to pay the price?
I suggest that it is just a matter of time.

...and what a great contribution to the sport. That's really raising the bar, huh?

-VSR-
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:17 PM
Thats the thing. People in this thread want Serena fans to be humbled totally and want us all to hope Serena makes the 3rd round and be happy if she is able to do that. Im sory, but we are not Jankovic or Vaidisova fans, if Serena is playing, we expect her to do well. Fuck her form, we've all seen this woman do the unbelievable, and over her career she has given her fans more than enough belief in her to last for the rest of her career. These vultures in this thread want us and Serena to be humbled, and to acquiesce to mediocre results and simply hoping for the best. Fuck that, I'm no Ivanovic fan. I'm a fan of Serena f'in Williams, and I expect her to win when she plays. And as long as she is the woman that she is, I wil never stop believing in her ability to be a champion. So Pat Cash raises some interesting points, I can understand where he is coming from, but he doesn't know the Williams sisters. Everyone in their supposed "right mind" knew that Venus Williams was finished as a slam contender, she lost some of her movement, she was losing to every player with any kind of weapon (Molik, Bovina, Golovin) and even some scrubs (Karatancheva), and she wins Wimbledon in 2005. The way they were raised by their parents, yeah ya'll hear them and think of them as arrogant or crass or whatever, but that mentality is what got them to where they are now. If Venus was a lesser player, she would have let everything the media had said about her from the time she lost her slams to Serena in 2002 to 2005 get to her and make her stop believing in herself, but Venus didnt give a damn. The belief remained. Thats one of the biggest gifts their parents gave to them, indomitable belief in the capabilities. She worked on her fitness all year, making sure that she could position herself when it was her time. And when it was her time, she took that shit and shut everyone up.

If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? She is playing Hobart, Bangalore, and she on the grind. There are no delusions of grandeur, look at her low profile in Hobart and in Melbourne. No flash, no glitz, her weave is THROUGH, but Serena is there and came to try her best. If its good enough to win so be it, if not too damn bad. But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.

Best. Post. Ever.

You nailed it and told it like it is! :worship:

nander
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:29 PM
...and what a great contribution to the sport. That's really raising the bar, huh?
History will decide that.
But why is it that other power players are not villified the way that the Williams are?

raquel
Jan 14th, 2007, 05:55 PM
I doubt Pat Cash wrote that. He probably said something resembling that article, but it was likely ghostwritten. Anyone who has seen Cash on TV will know he can barely string sentences together. And when he talks about women's tennis the lack of respect is obvious. When Lindsay Davenport was number 1 he said "If you look at her you think she should be a shot putter, not a tennis player" :rolleyes: Why he continues to be treated as some sort of legend in the UK is a mystery to me.

I agree with some things, disagree with others. Serena won't be at the sharp end of the tournament? Really earning your fee for this article there Pat. She probably won't be but it would be crazy to write her future off.

fifiricci
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:09 PM
Just as it wasn't "attacking" for him to suggest simply because
Venus came from the "Slums" she should be grateful for whatever
amount of money the powers that be decide to give her.


WHATEVER.

The Sisters will keep on keeping on. :cool:

Gawd, isn't it a bit old hat now to keep harping on about the Williams' sisters origins. Honestly, anyone would think they were penniless martyrs rather than incredibly successful athletes who have opened all the doors and are now magically able to pursue whatever other career takes their fancy, whether or not they have any talent for it.

They are "black" and came from "humble" origins, so bloody what, they didn't invent that wheel. Their story is no more special than that of many other sports stars I could mention.

:inlove:
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:14 PM
King. :bowdown:

Knizzle
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:26 PM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

Agassi and Capriati both had a few years TO get back to the top, they just didn't magically appear at the top of the game and in great shape. Capriati made her return to the tour in 96 and didn't win a Grand Slam until 2001. Obviously Serena has less time because of her age, but what do you want her to do, roll over and die? She has to start somewhere right?? If she decided to stay out of the game until she got in top shape you would criticize her for that so if anything u should be commending her for getting out there and trying and being able to take her losses with a greater goal in mind.

Julia, we are talking about Serena Williams, as much as you want to deny her greatness or her ability to be able to return to the pinnacle of winning a Grand Slam, the fact is that based on Serena's past she's not someone you or anyone else can count out. No Serena fan here is delusional about their favorite's abilities, and if they were she has given them MORE than enough reasons to believe in her, so take your doubting Thomas shit somewhere else. If she was in the best shape you'd still doubt her ability because the fact is you HATE her, and it's as simple as that.

aNYthing
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:29 PM
Thats the thing. People in this thread want Serena fans to be humbled totally and want us all to hope Serena makes the 3rd round and be happy if she is able to do that. Im sory, but we are not Jankovic or Vaidisova fans, if Serena is playing, we expect her to do well. Fuck her form, we've all seen this woman do the unbelievable, and over her career she has given her fans more than enough belief in her to last for the rest of her career. These vultures in this thread want us and Serena to be humbled, and to acquiesce to mediocre results and simply hoping for the best. Fuck that, I'm no Ivanovic fan. I'm a fan of Serena f'in Williams, and I expect her to win when she plays. And as long as she is the woman that she is, I wil never stop believing in her ability to be a champion. So Pat Cash raises some interesting points, I can understand where he is coming from, but he doesn't know the Williams sisters. Everyone in their supposed "right mind" knew that Venus Williams was finished as a slam contender, she lost some of her movement, she was losing to every player with any kind of weapon (Molik, Bovina, Golovin) and even some scrubs (Karatancheva), and she wins Wimbledon in 2005. The way they were raised by their parents, yeah ya'll hear them and think of them as arrogant or crass or whatever, but that mentality is what got them to where they are now. If Venus was a lesser player, she would have let everything the media had said about her from the time she lost her slams to Serena in 2002 to 2005 get to her and make her stop believing in herself, but Venus didnt give a damn. The belief remained. Thats one of the biggest gifts their parents gave to them, indomitable belief in the capabilities. She worked on her fitness all year, making sure that she could position herself when it was her time. And when it was her time, she took that shit and shut everyone up.

If Andre Agassi can come back in his career, and fucking CAPRIATI can, why can't Serena? She is playing Hobart, Bangalore, and she on the grind. There are no delusions of grandeur, look at her low profile in Hobart and in Melbourne. No flash, no glitz, her weave is THROUGH, but Serena is there and came to try her best. If its good enough to win so be it, if not too damn bad. But I refuse to believe that the greatest female player of this millenium is done. Serena has nothing to prove to any of you people, fan or hater. If you're riding her, you're riding with her, if not, fuck you. But dont you dare come into threads ridiculing me for believing in Serena and being optimistic.

:worship:

Reuchlin
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:33 PM
You'd have to be stupid to think that Serena will not/or cannot make a run for the top again-- especially with her gifts.

Pureracket
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:33 PM
So, you all are actually surprised that Swam is turning every thread about the Williams Sisters into a "veritable cesspool" for him/her to display the real reason he/she is even a member of this board - her ire for Williams Sisters?

You're kidding me, right?

Forget the faux fanaticism about JHH and Maria Sharapova. Forget the whole "the real greats" crap. I'm wondering why it's not obvious to more people.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 14th, 2007, 06:47 PM
Agassi and Capriati both had a few years TO get back to the top, they just didn't magically appear at the top of the game and in great shape. Capriati made her return to the tour in 96 and didn't win a Grand Slam until 2001. Obviously Serena has less time because of her age, but what do you want her to do, roll over and die? She has to start somewhere right?? If she decided to stay out of the game until she got in top shape you would criticize her for that so if anything u should be commending her for getting out there and trying and being able to take her losses with a greater goal in mind.

Julia, we are talking about Serena Williams, as much as you want to deny her greatness or her ability to be able to return to the pinnacle of winning a Grand Slam, the fact is that based on Serena's past she's not someone you or anyone else can count out. No Serena fan here is delusional about their favorite's abilities, and if they were she has given them MORE than enough reasons to believe in her, so take your doubting Thomas shit somewhere else. If she was in the best shape you'd still doubt her ability because the fact is you HATE her, and it's as simple as that.
:worship: No other words needed, just :worship:

blamoh
Jan 14th, 2007, 07:53 PM
This is a crap. An insult to Mauresmo? Let us see. Mauresmo is the same
age as Serena if I am correct. She became prof. the same time as Serena.
She plays more tournaments than Serena yet Serena makes more
than her. Serena won more grandslams as compared to only two for
Mauresmo. Head to Head, Serena is way ahead.
So Serena should not say what she believes she can do despite Mauresmo
or the kovas rankings.
Pat Cash is just a tennis commentator. He never appreciated the Williams'
presence on the tour.

Vlover
Jan 14th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Forget the faux fanaticism about JHH and Maria Sharapova. Forget the whole "the real greats" crap. I'm wondering why it's not obvious to more people.

Smarmy's obsession with Williams and their fans is quite apparent but most of us just choose to ignore the attention seeking whore. We are also aware that the faux faves is just a cover because she perceives that Williams fans don't care much for these two but most the real fans of these players have seen through her ploy.

Anyway what can I say about the irresistable Serena! Everyone and their moma have an opinion and want it to be heard. As evident of the no of pages and threads she has generated interest in the WTA agian.

mykarma
Jan 14th, 2007, 09:06 PM
Agassi and Capriati both had a few years TO get back to the top, they just didn't magically appear at the top of the game and in great shape. Capriati made her return to the tour in 96 and didn't win a Grand Slam until 2001. Obviously Serena has less time because of her age, but what do you want her to do, roll over and die? She has to start somewhere right?? If she decided to stay out of the game until she got in top shape you would criticize her for that so if anything u should be commending her for getting out there and trying and being able to take her losses with a greater goal in mind.

Julia, we are talking about Serena Williams, as much as you want to deny her greatness or her ability to be able to return to the pinnacle of winning a Grand Slam, the fact is that based on Serena's past she's not someone you or anyone else can count out. No Serena fan here is delusional about their favorite's abilities, and if they were she has given them MORE than enough reasons to believe in her, so take your doubting Thomas shit somewhere else. If she was in the best shape you'd still doubt her ability because the fact is you HATE her, and it's as simple as that.
You must spread reps around before giving rep to knizzle again.:worship:

SelesFan70
Jan 14th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Someone could start a thread that Serena farted and there would 19 pages about!

"No she didn't!"
"Yes she did!"
"I didn't stink"
:haha:

I do think Serena and Venus don't realize the tour has caught up to (passed?) them, but I will be rooting for Serena regardless. The fact that she is there is a good sign. :bounce:

vogus
Jan 15th, 2007, 02:03 AM
Someone could start a thread that Serena farted and there would 19 pages about!

"No she didn't!"
"Yes she did!"
"I didn't stink"




:lol: there would be 200+ replies worth of debate before people calmed down.

SAEKeithSerena
Jan 15th, 2007, 02:07 AM
i love serena, but he has a point. she's dillusional right now.

sweetpeas
Jan 15th, 2007, 03:45 AM
TRULY WHO CARE"S.Nobody help this young ladies.Same people who never wanted them there in the first place!So Who really care"s.If Serena loose the first round,who cares.She there.7 SLAMS,NOT FUCKING BAD!

Mother_Marjorie
Jan 15th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Agassi and Capriati both had a few years TO get back to the top, they just didn't magically appear at the top of the game and in great shape. Capriati made her return to the tour in 96 and didn't win a Grand Slam until 2001. Obviously Serena has less time because of her age, but what do you want her to do, roll over and die? She has to start somewhere right?? If she decided to stay out of the game until she got in top shape you would criticize her for that so if anything u should be commending her for getting out there and trying and being able to take her losses with a greater goal in mind.

Julia, we are talking about Serena Williams, as much as you want to deny her greatness or her ability to be able to return to the pinnacle of winning a Grand Slam, the fact is that based on Serena's past she's not someone you or anyone else can count out. No Serena fan here is delusional about their favorite's abilities, and if they were she has given them MORE than enough reasons to believe in her, so take your doubting Thomas shit somewhere else. If she was in the best shape you'd still doubt her ability because the fact is you HATE her, and it's as simple as that.

This whole "cry wolf" syndrome that has reared its ugly head once again here is quite interesting. It generally accompanies yet another comeback by Serena. Okay, Ms. Brawley?

How many times will it take for Serena to "comeback" before you finally get the clue?

Bottom line, she's got a bum knee.

The widely-referenced Greatest Athlete of this generation in women's tennis by Serena's fans has been plagued by being out of shape and overweight for almost a year and a half, in the prime of her career.

The widely-referenced Greatest WTA Player of the Millenium by Serena's fans has won ONE Grand Slam singles event in almost four years, in the prime of her career.

Call me Captain Obvious for stating the obvious, but the history is no longer on the side of Serena Williams.

And I don't understand what the big deal is....I mean, Serena herself has maintained that tennis isn't her only priority in life. She has her fashion line, red carpet appearances and acting. All of those things are equally important to her as tennis. And her on-court play reflects her priorities.

So don't cry Mother Marjorie a river because your super athlete has performed less than YOUR expectations.

But before anyone attempts to compare Serena with Agassi or Capriati's comeback, you have to see results first. And in Serena's many comeback perfomances over the past almost four years, its just not the same as theirs. It was a very bad analogy to begin with.

But Pat Cash was right on one point. Professional Tennis is a very unforgiving sport. You bow out once, you may get one chance to regain your former glory. Twice and your history.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 15th, 2007, 03:55 AM
Who the fuck is Pat Cash....??? nobody dont care what he's talkin bout...

Couver
Jan 15th, 2007, 05:09 AM
TRULY WHO CARE"S.Nobody help this young ladies.Same people who never wanted them there in the first place!So Who really care"s.If Serena loose the first round,who cares.She there.7 SLAMS,NOT FUCKING BAD!

I agree with you. Most commentators and most fans never wanted the Williams sisters around anyway, so I struggle to understand why every other article or thread coming out these days is about them. If they are getting their wish of having the sisters away from the game, you'd think they'd be happy and just leave it alone.

Orion
Jan 15th, 2007, 05:17 AM
I don't think he's right. To say never is to really stick his neck out. While I have my doubts about their future, I wouldn't say it's impossible. They both have the skills, they just haven't taken the time.

I doubt they will take the time, but to totally give up isn't the answer. Inspiration, not denegration, is the path to go.

But he's right on one count: it was insulting to say that she is that much better than the current crop that she can come back quickly. It doesn't matter who you are, it's a long road back to the top. And she will never dominate like she did. The days of four slams in a row are gone.

yes_sir
Jan 15th, 2007, 05:50 AM
Good article and right on the money.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 19th, 2007, 10:42 AM
:haha: Cash sure knows his tennis :lol:

Sir Stefwhit
Jan 20th, 2007, 08:00 AM
:haha: Cash sure knows his tennis :lol:

:lol:

**Jelica**
Jan 20th, 2007, 09:10 AM
But to make such a crass statement on her arrival in Australia was an insult to Amelie Mauresmo and Maria Sharapova, who have risen to the top of the game in her absence.

Man, he really doesn't like Justine :lol: Or maybe he didn't check out the ranking list!!

kinglear
Jan 22nd, 2007, 04:14 AM
oh well Serena belives in herself, that's all that matters.

You tell it. I think belief won't always achieve goals, but there is a huge difference between Hingis and Serena. Reason 1: She has never retired and won her last Grand Slam two years ago. Reason 2: Her playing style is the epitome of the modern game. That's why Monica Seles came back and was successful, because her game was just as hard as the younger players.

Jakeev
Jan 22nd, 2007, 08:15 AM
I was initially going to get pissed off in this thread and then it hit me. Pat Cash is so behind of the times that everything he wrote really means nothing. Hell, tell us something we don't know Pat.

I'm sorry Pat Cash is a has been and feels the need to dump on women's tennis. But since the world knows of his disdain for women's tennis, why should us that actually love the game really give a crap what he has to say.

It's his opinion and even if he is wrong and biased, hell it's opinion and let him have it.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 22nd, 2007, 03:45 PM
Serena Williams is a lost cause!










to lose before the quarters of majors again :nerner:

LondonSteve
Jan 22nd, 2007, 04:37 PM
I do get irritated by Pat Cash. No one squandered as much as he did, by his own admission. Yet he still gets paid to witter twaddle. He always gets it wrong. When federer dropped his coach and made his girlfriend his 'manager' Cash said it was the end of Roger, yet it was only the beginning. Tennis is not Serena's be all and end all, and I think she plays when she believes. So good luck to her. Not many have the history and talent to dare to believe like Serena has the right to

nhissan
Jan 22nd, 2007, 04:44 PM
But to make such a crass statement on her arrival in Australia was an insult to Amelie Mauresmo and Maria Sharapova, who have risen to the top of the game in her absence.

:lol:
what a loser

Larrybidd
Jan 22nd, 2007, 07:12 PM
It was sooo very funny reading all these definitive statements before the AO started that Serena was "delusional" thinking she could do damage in the tourney. The Williams sisters have NEVER done things the way "the experts" thought was best. We know the list (the not playing juniors, the coaching situation, the only playing when the mood strikes...etc..etc....) Frankly you would think that after 12 GS titles between them (or so) the people would not be so definitive in their negative opinions, if only to keep from looking so delightfully foolish.

A couple years ago after Venus lost badly to a nobody at the FO, Carillo stated that Venus's only hope for success was to hire a real coach and totally reconstruct her game. 3 weeks later Venus won Wimby in spectacular fashion. Now we read Cash saying another Williams is a "lost cause"? Oh My.

The only real problem I have with Cash's opinion is his assersion that Serena's confidence is an insult to the players ranked ahead of her. Serena has earned the right to be confident. But even if she didn't have so many GS titles to her name, its never an insult to believe you are going to win. If Peer is asked if she expects to win against Serena today, and she replies "Hell Yes", is that an insult to Serena? Hell no! She should expect to win, and be not afraid to say
so.

Eventually, Cash will be right. There will come a time when it will be impossible for the Sister's to compete in the top levels of the sport w/o living and breathing tennis 24/7. Until that time it is very amusing to see how wrong so many people can be.

Stamp Paid
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:13 PM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

No bitch, you are the one full of shit.

Cat's Pajamas
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:15 PM
owned. :)

Viktymise
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:17 PM
:lol: you go Serena

switz
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:24 PM
:lol: I love how Pat always seems to make a complete arse of himself in these articles.

I also love how he said Hingis would never make the top 20 and when she makes number 7 he still classifies her comeback as a failure. Although Pat certainly is in a position to talk about horrible career comebacks :tape:

Pat is just full of bitterness towards so many people because he never came close to fulfilling his talent (despite winning Wimbledon). He's one of those people who I doubt has ever felt any joy from anyone's success but his own.

Pureracket
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:27 PM
:lol: I love how Pat always seems to make a complete arse of himself in these articles.

I also love how he said Hingis would never make the top 20 and when she makes number 7 he still classifies her comeback as a failure. Although Pat certainly is in a position to talk about horrible career comebacks :tape:

Pat is just full of bitterness towards so many people because he never came close to fulfilling his talent (despite winning Wimbledon). He's one of those people who I doubt has ever felt any joy from anyone's success but his own.
....but he did look damn good in a pair of tennis shorts, though.

Martian Willow
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:28 PM
Even when hes right, he ends up being wrong.

Though I think it says much about the rest of the field. :)

Stamp Paid
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:30 PM
Even when hes right, he ends up being wrong.

Though I think it says much about the rest of the field. :)

...and even more about Serena. :worship:

Martian Willow
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:33 PM
Less.

Lulu.
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:41 PM
:haha: @ this thread


In your face haters :)

Rocketta
Jan 23rd, 2007, 09:58 PM
:haha: @ this thread


In your face haters :)

it's in your face Just Haters! :rolls:

Denise4925
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:00 PM
Everybody knows she and Venus had no real choice when their father, Richard, decided that much of their childhood would be spent hitting tennis balls. Who can be surprised that this promotes a desire to do something different? But to make such a crass statement on her arrival in Australia was an insult to Amelie Mauresmo and Maria Sharapova, who have risen to the top of the game in her absence.

They are the new winning breed. They are tall and hit the ball just as hard as the Williams sisters, if not harder. Coming through are Jelena Jankovic, Nicole Vaidisova and Ana Ivanovic, who possess similar firepower and just need a little more experience.

There is so much more depth to the women’s game nowadays. No longer do we disregard the first week of a Grand Slam as a warm-up for the real confrontations that are to come.

I still don’t expect too many upsets before the quarter-finals, but neither do I expect Serena Williams, currently the world’s 81st-ranked player, with eight Americans above her in the rankings, to be in the mix at the sharp end of the tournament.

:tape: :spit: :haha: I wonder if someone made Pat eat his hat yet? :lol:

austennis
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:03 PM
Pat Cash is a 1 slam wonder who we as a society need to ignore ..come on people it cant be too hard we just have 2 ignore everything he says...

Volcana
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:12 PM
"I still don’t expect too many upsets before the quarter-finals" - Pat Cash

Well, at least that explains why he was so wrong about Serena. He knows nothing about the women's tour.

TomTennis
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:12 PM
*loves it!

:drool: If only Oracene would mut this guy in his place! :worship:

RenaSlam.
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:19 PM
:worship:

Cash, well done.

the cat
Jan 23rd, 2007, 11:34 PM
Serena is amazing. :) She has something inside her besides a big heart and alot of talent. Serena has mastered how to play tough and clutch tennis even when she's not playing well by her standards. I doubt we will see the Serena from 1999 to 2003 again. But no matter what she's proven she's a grand slam contender again and added alot of life and drama back into women's tennis. :cool: If Serena can play 12 tournaments or more this year then women's tennis will be the big winner. :D

jenny161185
Jan 24th, 2007, 12:01 AM
lol if she wins this tournament he should be fired I cant stand him grrr hope Serena heard about this article ;)

Dave.
Jan 24th, 2007, 12:08 AM
:haha:

He should not be allowed to write articles. Go all the way Serena:wavey:

gmokb
Jan 24th, 2007, 12:21 AM
Whatever.

Paneru
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:19 AM
What was that you said Pat? :cool:

winone23
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:23 AM
Pat Cash :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: joke's on you.

xr6turbo
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:23 AM
:tape:

nbaker53
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:24 AM
:tape: :lol:

LeRoy.
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:24 AM
Has he said anything recently ? or his foot still lodged firmly in that wide mouth of his :awww:

Mrs. Peel
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:24 AM
:worship:

Cash, well done.


:lol: Where can we send letters to ridicule his stupid ass?

kiwifan
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:26 AM
I'm glad this thread keeps getting bumped. :haha:



:smoke:

Lulu.
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:27 AM
:)

hectopascal
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:31 AM
OMG where are the haters now?????

VS Fan
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:32 AM
Poor little LOST girl finds herself in the FINALS of the Australian open.

What will she do now??? WHAT WILL she do???!!!

I think she plans to bring home her THIRD championship trophy.

Good Luck, Serena!

Stamp Paid
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:34 AM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

Again:

No bitch. You are the one full of shit.

starin
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:45 AM
You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

LOL.....talk about having to eat your words.

Becool
Jan 25th, 2007, 04:59 AM
http://moisavahe.dcee.net/uploads/dance.gif

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 25th, 2007, 05:31 AM
:haha: This is GREAT to see all of the doubters eating CROW like HELL :haha:

golo
Jan 25th, 2007, 05:51 AM
hahaha

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 25th, 2007, 09:03 AM
:haha: it's funny....nice job Cash-hole

**Jelica**
Jan 25th, 2007, 09:10 AM
Oh yeah... Well, he's really made an idiot of himself this time. Ana Ivanovic, yeah she's here in the final isn't she? And Serena has clearly realised that she just doesn't have a chance anymore at this elite level.

jenny161185
Jan 25th, 2007, 11:19 AM
please please please let them say this to pat Cash then serve him up a HUGE portion of HUMBPE PIE........ Prick

auntie janie
Jan 25th, 2007, 12:40 PM
Pat Cash :lol: I love it!

RVD
Jan 25th, 2007, 12:49 PM
:haha: it's funny....nice job Cash-hole:haha: :haha: :worship:

Ceri
Jan 25th, 2007, 12:56 PM
Haha, knew he'd have to eat his words...wonder what his next take will be!

mykarma
Jan 25th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Again:

No bitch. You are the one full of shit.
You'd think they would get sick of eating that nasty crow. :lol:

partbrit
Jan 25th, 2007, 02:04 PM
I'm just waiting for him to have to eat the "Hingis is delusional" statement.

Stamp Paid
Jan 27th, 2007, 02:55 AM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

Again!

No bitch. You are the one full of shit.

Dementieva_Dude
Jan 27th, 2007, 03:05 AM
Well, Serena proved them all wrong. Pat Cash has officially been humbled :devil:

nbaker53
Jan 27th, 2007, 04:56 AM
:haha:

SilK
Jan 27th, 2007, 04:57 AM
Suck it.

SilK
Jan 27th, 2007, 04:57 AM
Swallow it.

SilK
Jan 27th, 2007, 04:57 AM
Take it like a MAN!

Marshmallow
Jan 27th, 2007, 04:58 AM
OWNAGE!!!! Capital

RenaSlam.
Jan 27th, 2007, 04:59 AM
Suck it, Swami. Don't ever come back.

PatrickRyan
Jan 27th, 2007, 05:01 AM
eat shit!

raquel
Jan 27th, 2007, 05:21 PM
When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.Any smart person would have at least have waited until Serena lost in the first or second round before saying things like this :tape:

As for Pat Cash, he shouldn't have written her off so quickly or been so negative, but let's face it - he wasn't alone. All the "experts" lined up to say similar things and got well and truly owned.

DunkMachine
Jan 27th, 2007, 05:37 PM
One coke and a smile for Mr. Cash please?!

nander
Jan 27th, 2007, 05:45 PM
Oh well. Here we are !!!
Just a few thoughts
1. I am still figuring out how Serena disrespected Sharapova and Mauresmo by suggesting that she believed she could do well in the tournament.
2. Have you all noticed how Sharapova sounds like Serena when she describes her belief in herself and the attitude that she takes into a match? I am putting it in that order since Serena did come ahead of Sharapova and was saying these things almost 10 years ago. I think Vaidisova said more or less the same. If Serena's surname was Williamsova or something similar, would she be judged so harshly?
3. When Serena was winning her many titles, she 'blew' kisses in 4 directions to the crowd but since Sharapova did the same after W'don 2004, she no longer does so.
She certainly backed up her words with action last night.
Many congratulations to her.

Paneru
Jan 27th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Tell Me No

Iím reaching for my dreams
And you're so quick to say what I can't do
You criticize my actions
But I don't see you standing in my shoes
I'm going the wrong way
Iím doing the wrong things
Every word just gives me fuel

So come on come on come on come on come on come on and

Chorus:
Tell me no
And I'll show you I can
Tell me no
And Iíll dig my feet right in
Tell me no
Just tell me that I canít win
So come on, I'm sure I'll prove you wrong
Go on and go
Tell me no

For every step I take
You're right there trying to block my next move
And if you're making me feel bad
Then tell me then do you feel good
I'm just human and all I'm doing
Is what my heart tells me I should

So come on come on come on come on come on come on

Chorus

No, no, no, no, no, no
It motivates me more and more
And I think it's time you know
You've given me something to work for
And I can't wait for the day
I can rub things in your face
And I ain't gonna stop til I'm done
I've reached the top, I'm No.1
For every time you try and tell me no
It only makes me keep on keepin' on


:wavey: Mr.Cash! :p

nhissan
Jan 27th, 2007, 05:52 PM
Sharapova is a copycat she also had some note on paper :rolleyes:

Swami_Marjorie yeah you are full of shit :lol: :lol: :lol:

venusdemilo
Jan 27th, 2007, 06:13 PM
:wavey: Mr.Cash! :p

:worship: Take that Cash! :p

lizchris
Jan 27th, 2007, 07:15 PM
I wonder when he is going to write an article saying he was wrong?

winone23
Jan 27th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Serena should do the right thing and pay for Pat Cash's lobotomy, it's only fair she's proved the man is insane.

santhuruu
Jan 27th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I think Pat Cash is a lost case. Cut that hair mister cause that hair style is way to old and your hais especially is I think a lost cause!

aisha
Jan 27th, 2007, 07:38 PM
:haha:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 27th, 2007, 07:49 PM
:haha: Nice job Cashy!

cartmancop
Jan 27th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Excellent foresight by Pat Cash, when this came out, many said "remember all the other bullshit he has said about players who he was wrong about..." & those were the ones who should have been highlighted... Can we make this thread sticky to prepare us all for the next great pat cash epiphany? :devil:

RenaSlam.
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:23 PM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

Hello, :wavey:

Fuck you.

:wavey:

G1Player2
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Hello, :wavey:

Fuck you.

:wavey:

:haha: RenaSlam588, I love you man. :lol:

serenafan08
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:25 PM
Hello, :wavey:

Fuck you.

:wavey:

"You must spread some reputation before giving it to RenaSlamm588 again."

:haha: You are priceless! RenaSlam we all love you man! :yeah:

Lulu.
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:25 PM
Hello, :wavey:

Fuck you.

:wavey:


:spit: Loves it

G1Player2
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:27 PM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.

:lol: Like RenaSlam588 said, FUCK YOU!

rjd1111
Feb 5th, 2007, 07:59 PM
The difference between Agassi-Capriati's comeback and Serena's is three-fold:

1. Agassi and Capriati's comeback was embolded by their improved fitness level and physical fitness. Serena's is not.

2. Agassi and Capriati's comeback wasn't highlighted by nagging injuries. Serena has the knee.

3. There is simply no excuse for the weight gain. None. Tennis players who are motivated to play, and be their best aren't packing around more weight.

You may choose to believe what you want, but living in a dream world while embracing thoughts of grandeur about the prospects of a chronically-injured and overweight athletes chances of regaining her long lost glory is simply delusional.

When Serena becomes fit again, and can go deep into a GS draw, then you can talk your "fuck you" mantra.

Until then, you are just plain full of shit.


Hey King. I guess you can talk your Mantra. Ha Ha ha

Mina Vagante
Feb 5th, 2007, 08:15 PM
haha oh how wrong pat turned out to be

Denise4925
Feb 5th, 2007, 08:49 PM
Hello, :wavey:

Fuck you.

:wavey:

:lol:

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 6th, 2007, 02:22 AM
:haha: I love reading this :lol:

SerenaSlam
Feb 6th, 2007, 02:33 AM
omg...u dont even have to get past the first page and wonder how bad all yall are eating your words. this is a post to save. id hate to be the fucking cat w/ the tuff titty b/c the milk went dry...but u all have got to be eatin ya damn words! lol! this is hilarious here!

stevos
Feb 6th, 2007, 02:34 AM
Wow.
This one will be bumped for years :tape:

What a tard.

starin
Feb 6th, 2007, 02:59 AM
lol...yeah pretty much anytime Serena wins a grand slam this will be bumped. Lots of people were critical of Serena but this was just borderline insulting. And for it to come from a former player is kind of harsh.

stevos
Feb 6th, 2007, 04:34 AM
Wow.
This one will be bumped for years :tape:

What a tard.

A williams fan bad repped me for this (I am a williams fan :o )
I was trying to say Pat Cash is a tard. :confused:

Lulu.
Feb 6th, 2007, 04:40 AM
A williams fan bad repped me for this (I am a williams fan :o )
I was trying to say Pat Cash is a tard. :confused:



Who did it? :o

stevos
Feb 6th, 2007, 04:51 AM
Who did it? :o

RenaSlam588 :shrug:

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 6th, 2007, 04:57 AM
A williams fan bad repped me for this (I am a williams fan :o )
I was trying to say Pat Cash is a tard. :confused:

Had to be an accident. Have you PMed them?

Lulu.
Feb 6th, 2007, 05:23 AM
RenaSlam588 :shrug:



Probably misunderstood you

mykarma
Feb 6th, 2007, 05:31 AM
A williams fan bad repped me for this (I am a williams fan :o )
I was trying to say Pat Cash is a tard. :confused:
Here's a good one back. :worship:

RenaSlam.
Feb 6th, 2007, 03:43 PM
RenaSlam588 :shrug:

I thought you were calling me a tard for bumping it. Sorry :wavey:

samsung101
Feb 6th, 2007, 04:18 PM
Pat Cash - he of the checkered head gear, one slam, and nothing
before or after that but bad guitar playing.

Serena may never be #1 again. Does it matter? She can win Grand
Slams with little play for over one full year, clearly overweight, and
beat the #1 player on the tour. Can you imagine what she'd do if
she did lose weight, did concentrate only on tennis, and play more?

More than that, she gets the public interested in her roller coaster
career.

Really, Pat, she is not you. She already has a truck load of Slams,
more than Capriati, and I think as many as Agassi now. It's all
gravy for her at this point.

Craigy
Feb 6th, 2007, 04:20 PM
I thought you were calling me a tard for bumping it. Sorry :wavey:

How the hell could you think he was calling you a tard? :o
You didn't post on this page of the thread, he didn't even direct anything at you :o

Denise4925
Feb 6th, 2007, 05:32 PM
How the hell could you think he was calling you a tard? :o
You didn't post on this page of the thread, he didn't even direct anything at you :o

It was just a mistake Craig, don't start something between you and Renaslam over it. Okay?! :hug:

RenaSlam.
Feb 6th, 2007, 10:57 PM
Wow.
This one will be bumped for years :tape:

What a tard.

For craig:

I had bumped Swami's comment and I thought stevos was referring to the thread being bumped (BY ME) and calling me a "tard" for bumping it when it wasn't necessary.

stevos
Feb 7th, 2007, 01:49 AM
Bump, again :wavey: Please no more badreps :unsure:

I thought you were calling me a tard for bumping it. Sorry :wavey:

Okay :lol: I was just confused...but I guess I can see where you'd get that from.

How the hell could you think he was calling you a tard? :o
You didn't post on this page of the thread, he didn't even direct anything at you :o

Thanks Craig ;) You're a champ.

LUIS9
Feb 7th, 2007, 02:58 AM
he's just mad because Serena did more in the span of 2 years than he did in his whole career.

He's not mad he's just jealous. :devil: :tape: :tape:

Besides his serve and volley game does not even compare to that of Becker, Sampras or lets say Krajicek. Even Ivanisevic played a prettier serve and volley game. He does not even come close to the caliber of Edberg, Mcenroe and Rafter.

It's quite sad and pathetic to read such baseless "informative" prose, wait can this be called prose?

dania
Feb 7th, 2007, 07:16 AM
Thanx to the person who bumped this thread,it`s one more proof that Cash doesn`t know what he`s talking about.

Donny
Feb 14th, 2010, 12:49 AM
Wow.
This one will be bumped for years :tape:

What a tard.

Yup.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 14th, 2010, 01:24 AM
times pat cash has been right - 0

number of slams serena has won since this pat cash farce - 5

:lol:

MrSerenaWilliams
Feb 14th, 2010, 01:34 AM
times pat cash has been right - 0

number of slams serena has won since this pat cash farce - 5

:lol:
:sobbing:

that's almost as many as she had before he wrote this article :sobbing:

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 14th, 2010, 01:38 AM
so thanks pat cash? :rolls:

trufanjay
Feb 14th, 2010, 02:45 AM
More like Pat Ass....