PDA

View Full Version : Why is Dementieva so lazy with the serve?


Morrissey
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:11 PM
You would think a top 10 player making millions of dollars would want to make her game as good as possible. Yet Dementieva is so lazy she won't work harder on her serve. She goes to the Netherlands for one week to work with Richard and that's it. If she was serious about becoming a champion she would of corrected her serve by now. And her fans make up a ton of excuses. Justine Henin Hardenne worked on her serve and her game because she wanted to be a champion. Dementieva has the tools to be a champion but she's so lazy she won't work on the serve. Without a good serve she's not winning any slams unless of course she gets an easy draw or top players lose early. That's her only shot.

goldenlox
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:16 PM
She wants to travel with her mom, and her mom is involved in coaching decisions.

matthias
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:18 PM
look at her mom
and then answer this Question

"can this women teach you how to serve?"

Tenis Srbija
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:19 PM
Well she is making all that money with this serve :lol:
So way changing it??? :D

BUBI
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:25 PM
Her fans love that serve... that's why she can't change it :hearts::kiss:

Dementieva_Dude
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:38 PM
I love Elena, and to a point you are right...if she could serve she would be among the very best in the game, and would probably be the 2004 US Open champ. However, I don't think her serving woes are due to laziness, I think it's a mental thing. She CAN serve, I just think that she steps on court and automatically goes back to her old ways.

goldenlox
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:51 PM
That serve is NOT from laziness, it's mental.

selyoink
Jan 8th, 2007, 06:57 PM
I don't think her serve can be fixed at this point. Supposedly she hits her serve well in practice but she just can't translate it into a match. It is mostly a mental problem now.

LudwigDvorak
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:00 PM
The part that confuses me is how is the serve mental, yet she can tough out these three set battles just about every week? Most of her victories take tremendous drive and mental strength--but at the expense of that mostly being due to an average (now, anyway) serve.

It's just a weird situation.

Corswandt
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:04 PM
Supposedly she hits her serve well in practice but she just can't translate it into a match. It is mostly a mental problem now.

That's a myth, derived from a (probably apocryphal) quote by Davenport in which she is supposed to have said that Lena D. serves bombs in practice.

A Portuguese ES guest commentator who saw Lena D. practice down under back in January 2006 says that, from a technical POV, just about everything is wrong with Lena D.'s serve, starting with the toss.

Lena can serve well on occasion, basically by hitting another first serve after faulting the first time and praying that it goes in. It worked vs Hingis at the Tokyo final. She tried to do the same vs Maria at the YEC and buried herself in DFs.

Paul.
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:04 PM
yeah, you can clearly tell that the last thing wrong with the serve is laziness.

do you really think elena dementieva, a top 10 player and major contender in every single tournament she plays in would think "you know what, i can't be bothered to fix this serve. in fact, i think i'll just remain the talk of the tour and never get that crucial slam..."

yeah, that doesn't really sound like elena to me :lol:

i bet she has worked her arse off on that serve for her WHOLE tennis career! can you imagine who frickin' frustrating that would be?! you think you've finally make some headway in practice and come the final, you completely crumble under the pressure and double fault over and over again. the double faults are often the difference between her winning and her losing!

i actually feel really bad for her and i hope she somehow finds a way to overcome this clear issue. i think its a combination of mental issues that have escalated over time (all this talk of her bad serve) and also the fact that her serve isn't naturally brilliant. like with most issues, i think it involves both nature and nurture. the sad thing is that i know that if she sorts the serve then there will be very little out in the tennis world to stop her.

good luck elena!! :lol::yeah::lol:

Adal
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Found very interesting video on YouTube about her serve:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YpIgzWqz548

So far it's a pure technique, not some mental problems.

Irina123
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Lazy? :weirdo: wtf Lena is one of the fittest players on the tour. Do you think it's possible when you are lazy? She works hard to be where she's now and to achieve what she's achieved.
Yes, she has to improve her serve, but the problem is NOT her laziness.

Wayn77
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:13 PM
It must be mental.
You can bet in practice 99% of the serves are on the money. When she gets the serve right it is effective enough. Maybe she should have ditched one whole season earlier in her career to subconsciously get the damn thing right - turned up for tourneys and just played without worrying about results, points, rankings etc.

morningglory
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:14 PM
Not lazy, she just needs a good full-time coach to fix it...

matthias
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:14 PM
btw. i think her problem is the ball-throw

UncleZeke
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:15 PM
Elena is not lazy. She is one of the fittest and hardest working girls on tour.
She puts a lot of time in, practicing her serve. Let me tell you something about practice.The old saying, "practice makes perfect" is not necessarily true. What is more true is "practice makes permanent". With Elena's flawed
service motions, all the practice in the world, under Mommy Vera's watchful eye isn't going to help Elena make the improvements in her serve that she is capable of. Mommy Vera has done a great job with her daughter, but she can't help Elena in the one area that is obviously holding Elena back.
I believe Elena's love for her mother, and the comfort level Vera provides, as they travel around the world is more important to Elena than anything.
So, I don't expect her to do what a lot us would do (i.e. get a coach that can improve her serve and take her game to the next level, a GS win).
Elena works as hard, and wants to win as much as anyone, and she wants to do it with her Mom. Not the way I would do it, but, Bless your heart. I hope you get a Grand Slam win..

matthias
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:29 PM
Elena is not lazy. She is one of the fittest and hardest working girls on tour.
She puts a lot of time in, practicing her serve. Let me tell you something about practice.The old saying, "practice makes perfect" is not necessarily true. What is more true is "practice makes permanent". With Elena's flawed
service motions, all the practice in the world, under Mommy Vera's watchful eye isn't going to help Elena make the improvements in her serve that she is capable of. Mommy Vera has done a great job with her daughter, but she can't help Elena in the one area that is obviously holding Elena back.
I believe Elena's love for her mother, and the comfort level Vera provides, as they travel around the world is more important to Elena than anything.
So, I don't expect her to do what a lot us would do (i.e. get a coach that can improve her serve and take her game to the next level, a GS win).
Elena works as hard, and wants to win as much as anyone, and she wants to do it with her Mom. Not the way I would do it, but, Bless your heart. I hope you get a Grand Slam win..


having a real coach wouldn´t mean to dumb her mother

she could still travel with her

Mina Vagante
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:34 PM
:lol:

Shonami Slam
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:10 PM
in addition to the bad ball toss, and perhaps problamatic technique regarding fluency, foot rolling, point of contact ans so on and on and on - she needs to find the guts to see the bad throw, let it fall down, raise her hand for pardon and try again until it's good enough.
sometimes, it seems as though she feel embarressed to "waste" time even though she's one of the fastest girls on tour in serving to start off the next point (mind you, that would be her mental answer to the serve - her abbility to wipe it off away as though it were nothing, and serve again as though she isn't a double digit faulter.)

Morrissey
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:10 PM
Dementieva's serve has held her career back from winning grand slams. I honestly believe IF she got serious, hired a serve coach, go back to Richard or someone else and ACTUALLY CHANGE THE SERVE she could be winning slams. But all this its mental crap is BS. Because if I was making millions of dollars I would want to make even more money. I would do everything in my power to be the best I can be. Dementieva could be making even more money and more endorsements IF she won a grand slam. And I can't believe she's not motivated enough just for that. She's obviously got the talent but to be so lazy and insipid and work on it is so self defeating. And travelling with her mama at age 25 and NOT with a coach isn't doing her any good. If her mother is there fine but she needs a real coach. She will win matches based on her talent. But she's erratic at times with the serve and it holds her back from being top 5 and a champion. Without some breaks in the draw or someone losing early she's not winning any slams. Not until she gets serious faces her fears and get her shit together.

jazar
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:26 PM
she worked with richard krajicek and there was a little improvement but not a huge one as she is still getting in double figures with double faults. its turned into a psychological problem, as she probably thinks that she has tried to improve it, but it didnt work, so she might as well ignore the problem, given that her serve is shit but she is still top 10 and challenging for slams

jazar
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:32 PM
her ball toss is only bad cos she can't hit a proper kick serve, so she has to hit a slice serve and then she has to put the ball toss so far away so she can actually get a bit of spin on it, so that it doesnt get hit for winners off every return.

she needs a proper coach to completely take her serve appart and start from the beginning. she basically needs to be taught how to serve again. she should have done that over the off season.

thomas.chung
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:36 PM
Similar point to Hingis, it is all mental.

For Hingis, her mom have said that Martina can hit bigger serves than that. But since she accomplished so much without that serve. She doesn't want to use it.

For Dementieva, I could imagine the same thing. She got to two GS finals and won numerous titles with that serve. Why change it? In fact, she did go to a serving coach once, and I've heard reports that she IS able to hit good serves while in practice. But somehow in matches she doesn't use it. So I guess it is mental as well? Also she hurt her shoulder early on in her career, that was why she changed her serve to what we know today. I also guess she doesn't want to re-aggregate her injury?

vogus
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Dementieva's serve has held her career back from winning grand slams. I honestly believe IF she got serious, hired a serve coach, go back to Richard or someone else and ACTUALLY CHANGE THE SERVE she could be winning slams. But all this its mental crap is BS. Because if I was making millions of dollars I would want to make even more money. I would do everything in my power to be the best I can be. Dementieva could be making even more money and more endorsements IF she won a grand slam. And I can't believe she's not motivated enough just for that. She's obviously got the talent but to be so lazy and insipid and work on it is so self defeating. And travelling with her mama at age 25 and NOT with a coach isn't doing her any good.




well, not everyone has the same mentality in life as you. And the fact is that Dementieva IS making millions of dollars, and you and me and rest of the people criticizing her are sitting on the sidelines, so she's obviously doing something right as a tennis player.

I take the opposite view, that it's amazing that Lena's serving problems haven't ruined the rest of her game, and it's often the case that the worse Lena serves, the better she plays.

In 2005, i personally offered to help Lena learn how to hit a reliable kick serve. Not surprisingly, she ignored my offer - and she probably ignores a lot of that type of input. That's just her mentality, how she operates. Just because Krajicek is famous and has a great serve, doesn't mean that he is going to get through to her.

Helen Lawson
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:46 PM
I don't think lazy is the right word at all, you don't get a hard body like that being lazy, or play a schedule like she does. I think the word may be "stubborn."

I<3Myskina
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:47 PM
I wouldn't call it laziness AT ALL.

We all know it's not the best serve by far, and Lena knows that too.

Not every single serve she hits is a disaster, she can sometimes hit a nice, fast first serve, and it is a mental thing too.

She just needs some more work on it, and why she hasn't hired a full time coach I don't know. But other aspects of her game compensate for her serve, like her great return of serve ability,

LudwigDvorak
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:06 PM
And like someone else said, part of her allure is just how inconsistent and wild the serve can be. She's just so interesting to watch. She's hit multiple aces in several matches before, up to five as far as I remember, and then the next day hit 19 double faults--and still win.

The only thing that really annoys me about her serve is how she only puts her arms into it. No legs anywhere, and that's one of her strengths--her speed and court manoeuverability. She could have had a fabulous serve, but, as it stands, she doesn't and never will. It's what makes her unique. She accepts her serve, and whether that's right or not, that's up to Elena.

Corswandt
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:31 PM
she needs a proper coach to completely take her serve appart and start from the beginning. she basically needs to be taught how to serve again. she should have done that over the off season.

Lena's serve is so flawed that it would indeed be necessary to build a new one from scratch - minor tweaks won't do. But for that, the offseason wouldn't be enough; it would probably take several months of work. And that's something Lena can't afford to do so late in her career, particularly when her top 10 ranking depends on playing a full schedule.

timafi
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:31 PM
isn't she suffering from yips in her serve just like Guillermo Coria?:scratch: :scratch: :shrug:

miss_molik
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:32 PM
in addition to the bad ball toss, and perhaps problamatic technique regarding fluency, foot rolling, point of contact ans so on and on and on - she needs to find the guts to see the bad throw, let it fall down, raise her hand for pardon and try again until it's good enough.
sometimes, it seems as though she feel embarressed to "waste" time even though she's one of the fastest girls on tour in serving to start off the next point (mind you, that would be her mental answer to the serve - her abbility to wipe it off away as though it were nothing, and serve again as though she isn't a double digit faulter.)

Yeah, thats what happens with me. Even if i have a shocking ball toss, i'll hit it anyway. I don't think about it purposefully, but i think deep down, i'm embarassed to let it drop down cause i'll be wasting time.

miss_molik
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:41 PM
Haha, i stopped to watch Elena for like 30 seconds before i left the tennis yesterday and in that period of time, she double faulted. :lol: i just laughed. poor girl.

Viktymise
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Its all mental with her, all the commentators say in practice she can serve perfect serves, Viginia Wade was saying last Wimbledon how she often see's her practicing and her serve is fine, when she gets out there its like a switch flicks and she goes back to her old ways. In HK her serve looked a bit better to me. The reason she's having so many DF's is because she is really going for the 2nd serve as much as the 1st. She almost doesn't need to do that on the 2nd serve. If she can get it in with the heavy slice, its hard to return and when in the point she can go with anyone

goldenlox
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:16 PM
It's mental, but tennis is mostly mental for the top 20.
They all have game, you have to play well on big points.
That includes Lena serving for a big game

BoucharDRules
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:32 PM
To say that Elena is lazy in any way shape or form is absurd.


She has tried to change it...but maybe some things about a person will always remain about the same no matter what.


Lena has had some good stretches where her serve is on....and at other times it goes back to horrible. That said, sometimes she loses matches when she serves well, and wins matches with double-digit DFs. :shrug:

goldenlox
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:39 PM
It is something she has to improve.

streag
Jan 9th, 2007, 12:35 AM
Yes, you can call it laziness. Sort of a mental laziness. Or fear. She needs to change her ways of doing her job but she can't. It will hurt her if changes are to be radical. And if she needs them fast (and she needs it) they gonna inflict pain. The faster the changes the more hurtful they are to be. That's the way it is. She fears the pain. Or is too lazy, mentally. May be the fear that her time passes by and she can't win goddamn slam will grow bigger than the fear of changes. Then she perhaps will do something but it may be too late. It's sad.

Morrissey
Jan 9th, 2007, 12:47 AM
She will continue to have an almost at the edge of greatness then. Because she seems to me to be a Mary Joe Fernandez kind of a player. A player with a solid game but she doesn't want to take the extra step to be a champion. Her fans are just wasting their time hoping she's going to win a slam. The only way she's winning a slam is if big upsets occur. Shes not beating the best to win the Australian Open. Not with that cheap serve.

No Name Face
Jan 9th, 2007, 02:22 AM
She will continue to have an almost at the edge of greatness then. Because she seems to me to be a Mary Joe Fernandez kind of a player. A player with a solid game but she doesn't want to take the extra step to be a champion. Her fans are just wasting their time hoping she's going to win a slam. The only way she's winning a slam is if big upsets occur. Shes not beating the best to win the Australian Open. Not with that cheap serve.

i see where you're coming from but she's defeated the slam contenders in the past year (minus amelie, who she hasn't played). it's not to say that i think she can beat them in a slam, but she could if she has a run like '04. and as corswandt said, she could have a good serving day. however, i've noticed that even when she hits good serves, she doesn't really know what to do with a weak return. it's comical actually. i don't think it's all about the serve though --- i'll explain what i'm talking about.

i don't have big hopes for elena anymore. i love her to death but i mean...her chances to win a slam are waning. she could have made more semis and finals in '05 to improve her hope but she managed to screw that up. if you look at it, her slam run COULD have been in '05.

First --- AO - semifinals at least; had she beaten schynder, which she should...she would have probably beaten dechy, who she OWNED and then would have made the semis vs. davenport. dechy pushed davenport to a close match, so there's no reason that elena couldn't have done the same, considering she has defeated the dav in big grand slam matches.

Second --- FO - this one is embarrassing. she should have made the semis where she had a good chance against Pierce. she choked against likhovtseva and that's that. it was horrible, considering her draw was WIDE OPEN.

Next --- Wimbledon - she should have made the quarters, where she would have stood a much better chance against Mauresmo than Myskina. She should have beaten an out of form Myskina that day (she had match points). Again, horrible.

and the USO...well we know what happened there with Pierce. I used to blame Pierce, but now I blame Elena's mental state. Considering she played awesome in that first set and then won 4 games in the next two sets, it's mental.

Coupled with the fact that she choked the Philadelphia final away against Mauresmo (and thus, didn't win a title all year), she must have had a lot of confidence issues.

She's a great fighter but she's not as tough as we think she is. Point is that if she had achieved what she should have in '05 and not choked away so many matches, she would have probably had more confidence in '06. And that would have translated to a slam victory.

I think her problem is about 30% serve and 70% mental. Just look at her in finals, although she improved on that this past year.

Okay I'm done.

goldenlox
Jan 9th, 2007, 02:54 AM
The edge of greatness