PDA

View Full Version : Peter Bodo On Justine And Pierre Yves


Marcell
Jan 7th, 2007, 05:28 PM
The Third Wheel


Posted 01/05/2007 @ 4 :18 PM


In my recent post for ESPN, I wrote mostly about how Justine Henin-Hardenne's travails may impact the field at the Australian Open. I am assuming that the reports in Europe are accurate (I haven't heard back from any of my Belgian sources, whom I emailed earlier today), and that H-2's withdrawal from the AOfor "personal reasons" is because her marriage is on the rocks.

Let's assume this is the case. And, when H-2 told us at the French Open that Pierre Yves was on some sort of ski holiday and, thus, in absentia, I made a mental note to remember for future reference. What odd timing. It underscored one thing to me, even then: There's only one man in Justine's life, and that's Carlos Rodriguez - her coach since H-2 was 14, her friend, probably her father figure and certainly, with increasing vigor, her escutcheon - the man who defends and protects her from the world.

In a way, the thing I like most about H-2 other than her customary pugnaciousness (and it's not like the options menu overwhelming) is her relationship with Carlos. It so. . . Paper Moon. Or perhaps Rocky is the better analogy, because of the simultaneously depressing and inspiring nature of the Rocky/Paulie relationship. But in any event, it was clear from shortly after Pierre Yves hooked up with Justine that his role was destined to be that of a third wheel.
Disclaimer: I know enough about tennis players to say that we actually know very, very little about the off-court lives and relationships. But I do know that when tennis players marry, the established order is almost always shaken up. Oh, it's nothing so obvious and dramatic as firing one coach and hiring another (personally, I've always suspected that the increasing power of Steffi Graf in Andre Agassi's life had to work against Brad Gilbert), or bringing in a new management team. But there are almost always signals of change: just look at Lleyton Hewitt, who's not exactly the kind of guy in whom you would expect to see massive, focus-shifting tremors due to marriage.

Yet, from the day he wed, you could hear the tectonic plates grinding in his soul. All you had to do was stand close by and listen. Marriage, it seems to me, changed Hewitt, or at least accelerated the process of change he was undergoing. That the "mellow" stage may be over (the manner in which he fell out with his former coach, Roger Rasheed, certainly suggests that) only serves to reinforce the point. And, of course, Hewitt is a man. He endured the changes wrought by marriage and then he started to regain his focus and drive, much like any other driven professional in a conventional marriage might.

There was never any visible grinding and crunching in Justine. Pierre Yves smoothly became an addition to the team (the luggage tag said, "husband"), seemingly displacing no one, when the accumulated wisdom (or is it folly?) of a few thousand years of civilization (never mind ever major religious canon) suggests that he should have displaced everyone. For example, I'm a Christian. In my faith, your spouse is supposed to supersede everyone, including your children. That is, if your wife (or husband) and child fall out of a boat, and you can save only one, you save the spouse. Sounds strange, I know, but there are reasons and explanations for this, although this isn't the right forum for discussing them.

Maybe there was a fundamental shift in Justine's life, but you certainly tell by any outward signs. Pierre-Yves is going to get bashed, big-time, in this. A lot of you have already gone to town on him. Maybe it's my conservative nature, but I can't imagine any man accepting the kind of status Pierre-Yves appears to have been handed in the H-2 camp. Oh, I know, a tennis champion is a special creature, someone who, like the artist, operates with immunity (and impunity) from the conventions that rule life for the rest of us. But you mess with those conventions at your own peril, unless your main goal in life is winning Grand Slam titles - as appears to be the case for H-2.

What evidence we have suggests that Pierre-Yves was a starstruck tennis fan and club player - seemingly a nice-looking, regular guy - who hit the jackpot when Henin-Hardenne, tennis star and national heroine, took a shine to him. There was something very sweet, romantic, and down-to-earth about the whole thing. You could just visualize Pierre-Yves thinking: Holy cow! Am I like the luckiest, sleeveless-blouse wearing dude in Belgium, or what?

Now,imagine what any guy in love with Justine Henin-Hardenne would be thinking at the prospect of marrying her. She's as devoted to her career as a nun to God. She's extremely close with her coach, to the extent that they not only suffer but also promote an us vs. them mentality. There are enormous challenges here, starting with the fact that we have to put her and her career first, at least in the near term. But I can handle this! I'm going to be the giver, her rock, because. . . I love her.

Question: would he be more or less of a man if he had thought: Man, these self-and-tennis obsessed people are a rough bunch, they're going to chew me up into little pieces and spit me out!

I have to believe that Pierre-Yves must have understood what he was getting into and decided to suck it up, unaware or in defiance of all the red flags. The whole third wheel thing (although perhaps he hoped for a role reversal). The whole obsessive, familial focus on Ju-Ju and her precious career. The whole me-first ethic that drives so many tennis players. It's an understandable choice - who wants to walk away from the chance to marry a woman as attractive and accomplished as Justine Henin? The real issue is sustainability.

You can enter a relationship thinking you are an emotional Superman (love makes men and women both feel that way), but reality is going to be waiting the morning after, like a bad hangover. How can you sustain such a self-denying and subordinate posture? It's more likely that you start out a saint and somewhere down the road you find yourself in a motel room, confessing your discontents to an exotic dancer who's thinking: Poor sucker, but he seems like a helluva nice guy. How come I never met anyone this nice?

I had a close relationship with one couple in which the woman was a famous tennis player: Roger and Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley. They met while Goolagong's Svengali, Vic Edwards, still was her coach and mentor. Roger saw that he would have to give up what personal ambitions he had to be married to Evonne. He decided to do it, and fought to displace Edwards as the most important man in Evonne's life. It got a little ugly, but Evonne made her decision, choosing Roger - and Edwards was history.

Roger became Evonne's husband and "coach", although Evonne couldn't care less about the X's and O's, and just went out and played her game against all comers. They had a child, Kelly Inala, which made things easier, in terms of sustainability. She went on to become the only Open era woman to win Wimbledon while she was a mother. I'm not saying that this is a model for anyone; everyone is different. And I'm certainly not blaming Rodriguez, who seems to have served Justine as loyally as a rottweiller. This ball was in Justine and Pierre-Yves court, and that really means Justine's court. It's been her show, from Day One.

What I am saying, I guess, is that marriage is a transformational experience, and if it hasn't appreciably altered your life, you may be, but aren't necessarily, heading for trouble. It's been reported that Pierre Yves was increasingly discontented with H-2's focus on tennis, and the way her anxieties and relentlessness affected their relationship. Not only can I believe that, I can't imagine that it isn't true. Everything we know about Justine - the good, the bad, the ugly - argues for it.

I hope they can work things out.

MikeJones
Jan 7th, 2007, 05:38 PM
Who will be in her box when she plays in a GS again?

¤CharlDa¤
Jan 7th, 2007, 05:47 PM
Oh god :lol: That was a very funny-as-well-as-interesting article, way too intense, and how the hell does he know all of this.

He kinda lost me when he said that the spouse is more important than the child. On the other hand, he got me back by the sleeve-less blouse incident :lol:

hingis-seles
Jan 7th, 2007, 05:55 PM
Interesting read. Thanks for posting it.

partbrit
Jan 7th, 2007, 05:56 PM
I read that a couple of days ago, and was disappointed--though not at all surprised--that it was chock full of gender stereotypes. And the one time I checked, only one commenter had said anything about how no one seems to care if it is the wife who is the "add-on." If Pierre-Yves were the tennis star, there would be no such column because it wouldn't be an issue, which is something I blogged about.

This situation is sad, though. I am not a Justine fan, but I am a Justine admirer, and she has been through enough.

Leo_DFP
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:02 PM
Interesting theory, but the truth is probably that Pierre-Yves is gay.

vogus
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:04 PM
one of Bodo's better pieces, raising a lot of interesting points.

PY has found himself in a lose-lose situation. If you are going to be married to a tennis star, you have to become the principal figure in your spouse's career. Otherwise you slip into irrelevancy.

azinna
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:11 PM
I read that a couple of days ago, and was disappointed--though not at all surprised--that it was chock full of gender stereotypes...no one seems to care if it is the wife who is the "add-on." If Pierre-Yves were the tennis star, there would be no such column because it wouldn't be an issue, which is something I blogged about....

Well, Bodo does make the rather interesting suggestion that Steffi's entry led to Brad's exit. And folks have written columns about how marriage affected players such as Edberg, Henman, Hewitt..... But I'll agree with you about Bodo's rather dicey comparison between Henin and Hewitt. He didn't quite say what he almost did say: "....And, of course, Hewitt is a man...."?

thrust
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:19 PM
Overall a good article, however, I find it hard to feel sorry for Pierre Yves. He knew what he was getting when he married Justine. There were a few times during a tough match Justine was playing when I felt a bit uneasy seeing Pierre and Carlos sitting in the stands while she, their meal ticket, was busting her butt trying so hard to win. I just sort of got the feeling she was being taken advantage of. If they do get divorced, I hope he gets nothing as he has been supported by her long enough.

hablo
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:33 PM
Let's assume this is the case. And, when H-2 told us at the French Open that Pierre Yves was on some sort of ski holiday and, thus, in absentia, I made a mental note to remember for future reference. What odd timing. It underscored one thing to me, even then: There's only one man in Justine's life, and that's Carlos Rodriguez - her coach since H-2 was 14, her friend, probably her father figure and certainly, with increasing vigor, her escutcheon - the man who defends and protects her from the world.


Damn I didn't even know about this, but then again, I don't really follow Juju that closely.

I have to say it really irritates me when I hear people say that a man takes advantage of a woman when she makes good/more money than him professionally. When it's the other way around, you don't hear about the woman her getting her "meal ticket". Pfft. The double standard continues . . .

Mina Vagante
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:36 PM
i dont know what to say:tape:

pigam
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:40 PM
wow, the persons who now STILL thinks that Peter Bodo's only source for colums is NOT WTAWorld is seriously deluded :rolleyes:

I find this such a disgusting piece of writing disguised as a "semi psychological" essay. Stop the speculating already. "my sources in belgium havn't answered my emails" boohoo... there is nothing to tell :rolleyes:
Way to show respect for the topplayer. :yeah:

partbrit
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:41 PM
I felt a bit uneasy seeing Pierre and Carlos sitting in the stands while she, their meal ticket, was busting her butt trying so hard to win.

This is what I mean. Did it bother anyone that Sampras's wife was in the stands, or that that Hewitt's wife, who is not currently working outside the home, is in the stands while their "meal tickets" were trying so hard to win? I don't know what Justine's and Pierre-Yves' arrangement is--it is none of my business--but it seems reasonable to assume that he is serving the same kind of support role, both in and out of the home. Why is okay for women to do that and not men?

And as for Carlos, he has a demanding job, part of which is sitting in the stands.

LadyLil
Jan 7th, 2007, 06:57 PM
I don't know where to begin. It takes two to make a marriage and two to make it fail. Is he saying Justine should have been more of a woman and let PY take over her career instead of being like Hewitt whose wife has no say in his career unlike Steffi who had Brad Gilbert thrown out? What is he trying to say here? He's all over the map.

brent-o
Jan 7th, 2007, 07:18 PM
I love how Bodo, in his typical know-it-all fashion, thinks he understands Justine's relationship with her husband. Is he close friends with them or something? Or does he just choose as always to make rude assumptions and present them as a "ground-breaking, insider" article to enlighten the rest of us. Yawn, Bodo. That's all I gotta say. YAWN.

LudwigDvorak
Jan 7th, 2007, 07:29 PM
It doesn't work when males are the ones sitting in the stands since males inherently want to be superior, or bread winners, or anything like that, and when you don't have a job (does Pierre have a job? I could have sworn he was involved with basketball) and you're inferior in virtually every aspect when you're married to a celebrity paying for you, no man is going to like that. Not a damn one. If you REALLY want to nitpick, a few moochers might like that, but not the vast majority. Women are used to being paid for and having mealtickets provided for by males. It's perfect acceptable in society's eye. I, personally, see nothing wrong with either situation, I'm just going by what people generally perceive or would feel if it was in their shoes.

Am I saying that's right? No. But that's how the male mind works. But the truth is: none of us know what Justine is going through. The entire thing Bodo ranted about could have little to do with why she skipped the Australian. We don't know if something's wrong with her marriage, even though Belgian tabloids say there is. We don't know anything.

thrust
Jan 7th, 2007, 07:30 PM
partbrit- You are right, but being older than most here, I tend to think of the male as the meal ticket. My main point though is that Pierre, especially if he is the one who wants out, deserves no more money. She really needs to go to the AO, perhaps alone, and just do her thing. Sometimes it is best to put bad situations out of mind. Perhaps a separation would be best for both of them. If that doesn^t work, then she should just let him go.

SpankMe
Jan 7th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Peter bodo has always written complete c*p about women tennis players.
He is often the first to critisize what he sees as their career driven mentallity and their accumilated wealth AND HE IS ALWAYS THE FIRST TO TRY AND PROFIT FROM ANY DISCORD IN ANY TOP FEMALES PLAYERS LIFE.
He makes up conspiracy theories, hints at scandal and gossip but never provides any real proof.
Any evidence he attempts to show is weighted down in the mire of his own white male middle class priviliged patriarchal back ground = "women should shut up and put up" is his underlying ethic.
I read that a couple of days ago, and was disappointed--though not at all surprised--that it was chock full of gender stereotypes. And the one time I checked, only one commenter had said anything about how no one seems to care if it is the wife who is the "add-on." If Pierre-Yves were the tennis star, there would be no such column because it wouldn't be an issue, which is something I blogged about.
Very True :worship:

I have to say it really irritates me when I hear people say that a man takes advantage of a woman when she makes good/more money than him professionally. When it's the other way around, you don't hear about the woman her getting her "meal ticket". Pfft. The double standard continues . . . Yes it does unforunately

This is what I mean. Did it bother anyone that Sampras's wife was in the stands, or that that Hewitt's wife, who is not currently working outside the home, is in the stands while their "meal tickets" were trying so hard to win? I don't know what Justine's and Pierre-Yves' arrangement is--it is none of my business--but it seems reasonable to assume that he is serving the same kind of support role, both in and out of the home. Why is okay for women to do that and not men?
Male tennis stars and their wives are a scandal unto themselves :( The press are afraid of the male tennis stars hitting them but they don't care about the female stars hitting them :lol:

SpankMe
Jan 7th, 2007, 07:40 PM
It doesn't work when males are the ones sitting in the stands since males inherently want to be superior, or bread winners, or anything like that, and when you don't have a job (does Pierre have a job? I could have sworn he was involved with basketball) and you're inferior in virtually every aspect when you're married to a celebrity paying for you, no man is going to like that. Not a damn one. If you REALLY want to nitpick, a few moochers might like that, but not the vast majority. Women are used to being paid for and having mealtickets provided for by males. It's perfect acceptable in society's eye. I, personally, see nothing wrong with either situation, I'm just going by what people generally perceive or would feel if it was in their shoes. We all know that :lol:
But how many of us realize that we are grome for those roles/ambition and lack of them from birth :confused:

canoe.
Jan 7th, 2007, 07:58 PM
Male tennis stars and their wives are a scandal unto themselves :( The press are afraid of the male tennis stars hitting them but they don't care about the female stars hitting them :lol:
HUH?? :confused:

hotandspicey
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:03 PM
Bodo took the time to write all that stuff without stating the main and obvious reasons he thinks is the core of this breakup. :tape: He does slip, though, 'cause he just couldn't help himself with the sleeveless blouse bit. :lol:

vogus
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:04 PM
I love how Bodo, in his typical know-it-all fashion, thinks he understands Justine's relationship with her husband. Is he close friends with them or something? Or does he just choose as always to make rude assumptions and present them as a "ground-breaking, insider" article to enlighten the rest of us. Yawn, Bodo. That's all I gotta say. YAWN.



Bodo's article got like 900 replies in 24 hours. So apparently a lot of people aren't yawning.

Rtael
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:04 PM
As far as I'm aware, a lot of what he's saying isn't even correct. When Justine and PY first became friends (and eventually lovers), Justine wasn't famous at all. Maybe she was a high ranking junior, or at the start of her career, but she certainly wasn't a "star" at the time.

starr
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Maybe there shouldn' be a difference between a man's role and a woman's role in a marriage,but as things stand there is. Maybe some men would be happy tobe in a supporting role,bt most would not. Lots of women, on the other hand enjoy the supportive role.

It had seemed to ne for some time that JP was trying to carve out a place for himself that did not involve merely rotating around Justine, hence his absences from tournments.

Marriage is complicated though, and sometimes even the two married people arent even sure about what makes it work or not work. But, one thing is for sure: It's not about what is "supposed" to happen or what is
'fair."

Sally Struthers
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:10 PM
"Holy cow! Am I like the luckiest, sleeveless-blouse wearing dude in Belgium, or what?"


:haha:

vogus
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:12 PM
It doesn't work when males are the ones sitting in the stands since males inherently want to be superior, or bread winners, or anything like that, and when you don't have a job (does Pierre have a job? I could have sworn he was involved with basketball) and you're inferior in virtually every aspect when you're married to a celebrity paying for you, no man is going to like that. Not a damn one. If you REALLY want to nitpick, a few moochers might like that, but not the vast majority. Women are used to being paid for and having mealtickets provided for by males. It's perfect acceptable in society's eye. I, personally, see nothing wrong with either situation, I'm just going by what people generally perceive or would feel if it was in their shoes.




i agree with you that most men aren't going to tolerate that situation. And of the men who would, well, most women wouldn't find them attractive. In general, women are not attracted to passive guys.

partbrit
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:24 PM
but being older than most here, I tend to think of the male as the meal ticket

LOL. I am probably older than you, too, and I find it is the younger people who are so attached to the gender stereotypes.

i agree with you that most men aren't going to tolerate that situation. And of the men who would, well, most women wouldn't find them attractive. In general, women are not attracted to passive guys.


I and many other women do not consider a man "passive" who does not believe he has to have the starring role in a marriage or anywhere else. I find it quite attractive because I like men who identify themselves rather than have other people do it for them (same goes for women).

And while I would never argue that men and women are not inherently different--they are--still, a lot of this role stuff is strictly socialization to protect the dominant power group, and people just keep buying into it.

It is, of course, entirely possible that Pierre Yves is upset because he is an add-on, in which case--shame on him. No one is stopping him from getting a life, and, being a man, people actually expect him to have one. But he may be more evolved than that, and it could be another issue entirely, as many here have speculated. Including some issue that none of us has even considered.

Marcell
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:25 PM
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20070104/070104155719.4x1cq7xc0_justine-henin-hardenne-et-son-mari-pierre-yves-le-b.jpg

starr
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:28 PM
That's quite the photo.

hu2891601
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:42 PM
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20070104/070104155719.4x1cq7xc0_justine-henin-hardenne-et-son-mari-pierre-yves-le-b.jpg


Do you know when was it taken??

Vlover
Jan 7th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Nice blouse!:angel:

Marcell
Jan 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM
Do you know when was it taken??


I think this was in November 2006

manu32
Jan 7th, 2007, 09:01 PM
ski in june ????

manu32
Jan 7th, 2007, 09:02 PM
auto bronzant (in french) for the guy???

switz
Jan 7th, 2007, 09:38 PM
This is what I mean. Did it bother anyone that Sampras's wife was in the stands, or that that Hewitt's wife, who is not currently working outside the home, is in the stands while their "meal tickets" were trying so hard to win? I don't know what Justine's and Pierre-Yves' arrangement is--it is none of my business--but it seems reasonable to assume that he is serving the same kind of support role, both in and out of the home. Why is okay for women to do that and not men?


i wouldn't exactly say women don't get it all. I've heard a number of comments made about the likes of Vavrinec of a similar nature. Tennis wifes/girlfriends rarely get much respect.

Brigette Wilson and Bec Cartwright were and still claim to be actresses (of sorts) as well so they would probably deny they are dependents.

azinna
Jan 7th, 2007, 09:39 PM
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20070104/070104155719.4x1cq7xc0_justine-henin-hardenne-et-son-mari-pierre-yves-le-b.jpg


A thousand words right there.

perseus2006
Jan 7th, 2007, 10:15 PM
More trash and tripe from Bodo! He just makes things up out of thin air. That article is the most assinine and fatuous bit of yellow journalism I've read in a long time.

Bodo's as much of a christian as Osama is a Muslim. They both harm other people and perpetrate evil.

tard~tard
Jan 7th, 2007, 10:28 PM
More trash and tripe from Bodo! He just makes things up out of thin air. That article is the most assinine and fatuous bit of yellow journalism I've read in a long time.

Bodo's as much of a christian as Osama is a Muslim. They both harm other people and perpetrate evil.

Exactly!
This man apparantly knows no shame.

Greenout
Jan 7th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Photo - Airport Justine leaving to Athens for the Olympics.



Anyway. Ski trip during the French Open? I don't remember this so called fact of Bodo's. It's kind of big error if it's not true.

As far as I can remember he was there in 2006, 2005, 2004 , 2003, 2002, and 2001?


I agree with the comments that his piece is rather sexist. I think a good example of the double standard is when Hingis or Kim were not touring with a "coach", and pretty much all the critics thought they were being foolish, but Federer didn't have one and they called him a genius.

thrust
Jan 7th, 2007, 11:38 PM
I am pretty sure Pierre was a the FO this year. He was not at the infamous AO, unfortunately.

Mother_Marjorie
Jan 7th, 2007, 11:42 PM
Exactly!
This man apparantly knows no shame.
Who? Bodo or Pierre? (j/k)

Crazy Canuck
Jan 7th, 2007, 11:54 PM
I have to say it really irritates me when I hear people say that a man takes advantage of a woman when she makes good/more money than him professionally. When it's the other way around, you don't hear about the woman her getting her "meal ticket". Pfft. The double standard continues . . .

You're not actually being serious, are you?

hablo
Jan 8th, 2007, 12:37 AM
You're not actually being serious, are you?

What part of that did you not get ?

Astro Jetson
Jan 8th, 2007, 12:38 AM
I read that a couple of days ago, and was disappointed--though not at all surprised--that it was chock full of gender stereotypes. And the one time I checked, only one commenter had said anything about how no one seems to care if it is the wife who is the "add-on." If Pierre-Yves were the tennis star, there would be no such column because it wouldn't be an issue, which is something I blogged about.

This situation is sad, though. I am not a Justine fan, but I am a Justine admirer, and she has been through enough.

totally agree with this. Here in Belgium the press always talked about how Pierre-Yves was just an "add-on". You never here them chuckle at all those wives of footballplayers or any sportsmen for that matter, who follow their husbands everywhere they go. It's ridiculous and shows how traditional society still is regarding gender roles.

I feel sorry for both of them. It was clear that her family circle mainly consisted of Carlos and Pierre-Yves. The prospect of losing that security surely must be pretty traumatic. Hope she gets over this very soon.

henmanhill
Jan 8th, 2007, 12:38 AM
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20070104/070104155719.4x1cq7xc0_justine-henin-hardenne-et-son-mari-pierre-yves-le-b.jpg

I've always thought people were being unfair when they said PY looks gay but he certainly looks stereotypically so in this pic.

baleineau
Jan 8th, 2007, 12:43 AM
nah, PY ain't gay. He clearly doesn't think twice about how he looks when leaving the house each day.

I bet Justine's the one who was preening herself for hours before posing for this photo.

henmanhill
Jan 8th, 2007, 12:48 AM
nah, PY ain't gay. He clearly doesn't think twice about how he looks when leaving the house each day.

I bet Justine's the one who was preening herself for hours before posing for this photo.

:lol:

MinnyGophers
Jan 8th, 2007, 02:43 AM
As far as I'm aware, a lot of what he's saying isn't even correct. When Justine and PY first became friends (and eventually lovers), Justine wasn't famous at all. Maybe she was a high ranking junior, or at the start of her career, but she certainly wasn't a "star" at the time.

I agree. If I remember correctly when I read her biography, they met when she was still a junior. She had just won some small tournament, and he was the one who presented the trophy to her. Also, I think he was a tennis player at that time as well and she took a liking to him. He was a bit older than her and that is one of the reason why Jose Henin didn't like the relationship form the start.
So all that crap that Bodo said in his blog about PY "knowing full well what he was getting himself into" and "being star struck blah blah blah" is a mound of steaming crap.

morningglory
Jan 8th, 2007, 02:53 AM
His claim sounds so groundless to me... I think the article is sheer speculation

brujyster
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:39 AM
I guess when most mortals marry their meal ticket and he /she is a potential or actual world number one, to be the third wheel becomes a full-time job.

Nicjac
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:57 AM
I agree. If I remember correctly when I read her biography, they met when she was still a junior. She had just won some small tournament, and he was the one who presented the trophy to her. Also, I think he was a tennis player at that time as well and she took a liking to him. He was a bit older than her and that is one of the reason why Jose Henin didn't like the relationship form the start.
So all that crap that Bodo said in his blog about PY "knowing full well what he was getting himself into" and "being star struck blah blah blah" is a mound of steaming crap.

I think he won a small tournament and she presented the trophy to him.

raquel
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:25 PM
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20070104/070104155719.4x1cq7xc0_justine-henin-hardenne-et-son-mari-pierre-yves-le-b.jpg
If you had never seen Pierre Yves before and this picture was the first time you'd seen him, I think a lot of people would think he is gay. Sounding like a broken record there, but it's just true.

Originally Posted by hablo http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/buttons/blue/viewpost.gif (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=9757855#post9757855)


I have to say it really irritates me when I hear people say that a man takes advantage of a woman when she makes good/more money than him professionally. When it's the other way around, you don't hear about the woman her getting her "meal ticket". Pfft. The double standard continues . . .
You're not actually being serious, are you?

Yeah, I agree with Rebecca there. Are you actually being serious? Women are often called gold diggers. Look at Anna Nicole Smith! :p
Tennis player's girlfriends are often called out for apparently being there for the money. Bec Hewitt was often being called a gold digger a lot on the men's forum when she started seeing Lleyton. James Blake's ex girlfriend was ripped to shreds. And in Hollywood when older stars start seeing young actresses or models, most people jump to one conclusion.

As for Bodo, most of this is total guesswork. He does make a couple of good points though. Justine is very committed to her career and you could imagine it might sometimes be the most important thing she thinks about day to day.

saki
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:49 PM
It is entirely inaccurate to say that men can't cope with the relationship not being all about them and that women just lurve being in a supportive role. There are plenty of men and women of whom this is just not true but many of them are pressurised into thinking that they should behave in a way that they aren't suited to.

Take Carlos and Justine - very very close relationship (although clearly not romantic) in which Carlos is the supportive man and Justine is the star. Been going for 10 years now.

griffin
Jan 8th, 2007, 07:54 PM
His claim sounds so groundless to me... I think the article is sheer speculation

Of course he's speculating. He doesn't know them personally. That said, he's had far more access to them then most of the peeps on this board combined, and it hasn't stopped fans and non-fans here alike for speculating...

How I'd summarize Bodo on this one:

-serious relationships do take work - hard work - and adjustments on both sides.

-when one half of a couple (Justine in this case) has a singular, intense focus on something outside the relationship (tennis in this case), that work becomes harder

-when one half of a couple has an intense, emotionally crucial relationship with someone outside the relationship and that person seems to take precedence (see Carlos in the role of mother- or father-in-law), that work becomes harder still.

I'm not saying he's right, but it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me. I've been with my partner for 16 years now, and if she were as focused on her career as much as Justine seems to be on hers, or if she had the kind of bond with someone that Justine seems to have with Carlos - yeah I can see feeling like a "third wheel" and I can see that having a very serious impact on our relationship.

I don't get the insult, here, I really don't. If anything, he's acknowledging how hard it is to make relationships work in the tennis world.

saki
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:04 PM
I don't get the insult, here, I really don't. If anything, he's acknowledging how hard it is to make relationships work in the tennis world.

No, he's stating that women can't have the sort of intense focus on their career that Justine has and hope to make a marriage work. I don't see anyone claiming that Federer can't hope to make his relationship work.

Morrissey
Jan 8th, 2007, 08:23 PM
Bodo's article is FULL OF SEXIST STEREOTYPES. No one tells Agassi, or Henman or Hewitt or any male tennis player to choose between spouse or coach. Why should Justine? Justine is a hARD WORKING WOMAN. Again, people have a problem when a WOMAN HAS POWER. People don't like that. And this whole male ego thing is BS. Are men reallly that insecure and shallow?

TeamUSA#1
Jan 8th, 2007, 09:29 PM
As far as I'm aware, a lot of what he's saying isn't even correct. When Justine and PY first became friends (and eventually lovers), Justine wasn't famous at all. Maybe she was a high ranking junior, or at the start of her career, but she certainly wasn't a "star" at the time.

You are correct.. they met when they were very young, and before JHH became a pro... when she was a high ranking junior. So that def. blows BOZO's theory out of the water.

Also, wasn't PY Justine's manager after they got married? I thought he took on that role in team Henin.

And what was up with all of the sterotypes in his article. Not many couples (at least in the USA) can live off of 1 income.... most households have 2 incomes. When they have children, they either both keep working and get daycare for the kids, or 1 scales back or doesn't work. My neighbor has 6 kids... his wife is a doctor, so she makes a ton more $ than he would ever... so he stays home and tends to their 6 kids while she is out making the $... it doesn't make him less of a man, nor is he free-loader... he is working his ass off taking care of those kids and the house every day. This scenario is becoming more and more common... whoever has the better paying job, man or woman, is the 1 working FT, while the other takes care of the kids, etc.... For a tennis player getting married, they have to think about how to spend time together since the tennis player is on the road quite a bit. No one is critcizing Davenport and her husband. He is an investment banker, who would take time out of his job to support his wife in her job, by traveling as much as possible, knowing that it was a TEMPORARY situation, as tennis players don't play forever. Lindsay in return, scheduled herself to minimize long extended stays away from Jon... seems to have worked just fine for them for a few years now that Davenport is pregnant and retired....
Agassi firing Gilbert had NOTHING to do with Steffi.... that was just stupid on BOZO's account.. Brad got the axe because Andre (and maybe to a lesser extent, Gil-- Andre's physical traniner and mentor) got tired of Brad shooting his mouth off and because they had been together for several years, and Andre was ready for a new voice. It is the same reason Roddick got rid of Brad...

Anyways, BOZO, just loves to speculate and present it as the facts. He is stupid...:rolleyes:

A'DAM
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:04 PM
Interesting theory, but the truth is probably that Pierre-Yves is gay.

My first thought :lol: :lol: :lol:

griffin
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:22 PM
No, he's stating that women can't have the sort of intense focus on their career that Justine has and hope to make a marriage work. I don't see anyone claiming that Federer can't hope to make his relationship work.

That's a bad example for three reasons - first, Roger's relationship isn't (allegedly) on the rocks. For what it's worth though, if you look at prominent, workaholic male athletes and performers who DO get divorced, in the absence of infidelity, yes people do talk about how their focus on their careers hurt (if not killed) their marraiges. Kevin Costner and James Taylor come to mind.

Second, it's widely reported that Rogers GF (who's name escapes me) plays an active and significant role in managing his business affairs. In contrast, TeamUSA's post is the first time I've EVER heard someone claim that Pierre-Yves has any significant role in Team Juju - and I follow women's tennis, so I'm a little skeptical of how much of a role he actually has.

Third, there's no "Carlos" in that picture further complicating matters.

Is part of his analysis based on stereotypes? Yes. Are those stereotypes obnoxious? Hell yes. But that doesn't mean those stereotypes and assumptions about gender roles don't have an affect on people and how they feel about themselves and their situations.

partbrit
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Is part of his analysis based on stereotypes? Yes. Are those stereotypes obnoxious? Hell yes. But that doesn't mean those stereotypes and assumptions about gender roles don't have an affect on people and how they feel about themselves and their situations.

Well said, griffin. And it's sad and disappointing--especially in the 21st Century--that both men and women are presumed to have almost no self-actualization. Even worse is that presumption appears to be true.

griffin
Jan 8th, 2007, 10:39 PM
Well said, griffin. And it's sad and disappointing--especially in the 21st Century--that both men and women are presumed to have almost no self-actualization. Even worse is that presumption appears to be true.

Thanks, although I think this over-simplifies the issue. Self-actualization is a journey, not an end point. The fact is that even if you identify a "stereotype" and identify it as limiting work to break free of it, you're still acting in relation to it.

And identifying the ideal is always easier than living up to it.

In a fishbowl.

Recognizing what they're up against (allegedly, according to reports...) isn't criticism, imo. It gives them credit for trying, and I hope at the end of the day we can give them credit for succeeding.

partbrit
Jan 8th, 2007, 11:12 PM
Self-actualization is a journey, not an end point.

Agreed. What I should have said is how sad that so few are even on the journey.

trivfun
Jan 9th, 2007, 05:52 AM
Interesting theory, but the truth is probably that Pierre-Yves is gay.

If you read old articles of Billie Jean King around 1968 till her divorce from Larry, that is what they said insinuated about Larry. But who ended up being gay?

Billy Moonshine
Jan 9th, 2007, 07:30 AM
Gossipy and nothing to do with the game of tennis.

trivfun
Jan 9th, 2007, 08:21 PM
Gossipy and nothing to do with the game of tennis.

But it does have something to do with winning.