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View Full Version : Will Elena Dementieva ever win a grand slam???


Sammy 4 eva!!!
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:00 AM
Hey i was just wondering if you guys think Elena will ever win a Grand Slam:confused:

I think she has the talent but hasdnt really put it all together!!:tape:

Anyway what are your opinions???

:bounce: :bounce:

goldenlox
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:07 AM
She made 2 finals, so she has been close. She needs some luck.

-VSR-
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:09 AM
No she won't.

alwayshingis
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:10 AM
With the right draw and some luck there are 10 or so players who could win a GS right now, and Elena is one of them.

Derek.
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:14 AM
I doubt it.

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:18 AM
I don't think she will.
Not with that serve, that's for sure. There hasn't been a single Slam champion with such a huge liability in her technique.

jujufreak
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Myskina, Kuznetsova and Clijsters had the good draw at the right time, so why couldn't it be the case for Elena, especially if it's in New York! If she does, I'd be very glad for her, because she deserves it :bounce:

Gnaag
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:24 AM
Dementieva has an excellent game, serve aside of course, but she is not in the same calibre of the current greats. That will make it very tough to get back to the final of a major. I think the Dementieva we saw in 2004 was Dementieva at her absolute best and absolute peak (assuming the serve doesn't drastically improve and I see little reason to believe it will).

Sometimes players do surprise you in the later stages of their career (see Novotna or Capriati), but it doesn't happen all that often. At 25, Dementieva's development is all but finished. She could still improve, no question, but the improvements will be minor.

Unfortunately for Dementieva, her game fell short of allowing her to reach the finish line at two majors when she was playing her very best tennis. Now, with Sharapova and Mauresmo firmly establishing themselves as the best-of-the-best alongside Henin-Hardenne in 2006 by becoming multiple slam champions, I think it's safe to say Dementieva's window is now closed. She missed her chance.

goldenlox
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:28 AM
Elena plays her best tennis in NY, usually. If she could play like that in Paris, she would have a real shot.

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:51 AM
Lena is 3-14 at YEC which is the answer to why she hasn't won and most probably will never win a Grand Slam. She could upset anyone but there will always be another top-player to prevent her from winning the whole thing.

goldenlox
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:57 AM
I think she's been been getting further away the last 12 months.
But if she gets on form in week 2, she can win RG.
Her serve hurts her worse on faster surfaces.

Brooklyn90
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:00 AM
no :sad:
i really hope she does though, hopfully the Us Open

selyoink
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:04 AM
I used to think she would but I don't anymore. I think she has peaked already. Unless her serve gets better or she gets a coach then I think it is a longshot. I'll still support her though.

aussie_fan
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:06 AM
No, i don't think so. She won't have the nerve to win it and that serve just makes it worse.

LudwigDvorak
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:07 AM
I want to say yes, but it's not likely. If she does win a Slam it'll be at the US Open, which she should have won in '04. I can't help but agree with Gnaag--she played out of her mind in '04 and still couldn't win a Slam. It's the best I've ever seen her play and I've seen little since that shows she can be as versatile and open-minded to change her game-plan when she's down and out as in '04. Something just happened. (Like getting rid of her coach--obviously the reason she accomplished so much in '04.)

She's past her prime, but I still love her. Yet, I can't help but feel many felt she was past her prime in '01 and '02, but she was younger then, so there was still a good chance for her to break out. The window, as Gnaag said, continues to diminish.

She can still break out and win a Slam. It's not impossible. Had she defeated Schruff in Australia, she would have run into Vesnina in the third (probably), and had she beaten her, she would have faced Petrova in the fourth, then Sharapova in the quarterfinal--that's a tough draw. But, if she had a good draw, like she did this year the US Open, and actually beat who she's supposed to beat, she'd be in the semifinals or even final.

goldenlox
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:11 AM
I think that since Mauresmo and Sharapova have their worst results at RG, that's the best chance for Lena, Nadia and Sveta.
Sveta almost did it this year. I don't think Justine played a great final, but Sveta wasn't good either.
RG is the place, but she has to be on her best form those 2 weeks.

Ferosh
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:22 AM
Unfortunately it's not going to happen. :sad:

Lulu.
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:23 AM
Never

!<blocparty>!
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:25 AM
Unless she stops being a stubborn bitch fixes that serve and hires a different coach, she's not winning any slams.

LudwigDvorak
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:28 AM
Elena rarely does well on clay. It just doesn't work with her. She can't hit through the ball and it's difficult to add much pace. If she can beat someone on clay, it basically means they weren't playing that great. American clay is different, but I mean primarily on European clay where aside from the '04 final, she's never had any good results.

Petrova, who just blazed through the clay season, applied basically grass court tennis--coming to net, finishing off points before players like Schnyder and Henin-Hardenne could take complete control. That's what Elena could and CAN do, but she doesn't. Her gameplan is to add power and power. Or, you know, a failed dropshot here and there. I love seeing that, and when it's on, it's on, but players can move around that. You just can't do that very well on clay most of the time. The few times I have seen it, it boggled my mind.

So yeah, just felt like ranting. Clay just requires so much clever thought and play, and Elena just doesn't live up to it 99% of the time.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Dec 28th, 2006, 03:28 AM
Two weeks playing a great tennis ?

Yes , she can do it

UDACHi
Dec 28th, 2006, 04:18 AM
i agree with the people who think roland garros could be her slam. if henin miraculously lost there, i would have NO IDEA who the favorite would be, but it would be wide open, for sure. i thoguht she had a shot this year, but peer was too good at that time, beating myskina the week before and taking a set from hingis just days later. the us open is obviously her best shot, though. she had a real great chance to sneak in and steal it this year, but she fell apart. i think the third hope would be wimbledon, if elena develops an attacking mindset. she usually wins all but a few points at net in a match, so it's not totally wacko to say that employing a return and volley game could do her good. or even serving and volleying some of her non sucky ones. i have no hope for the australian, but who knows?

Josh.
Dec 28th, 2006, 04:30 AM
hopefully :D
its hard to tell sometimes. 04 RG and Usopen was amazing for her but.. hmm

Ben.
Dec 28th, 2006, 05:21 AM
at this rate I can't see lena winning a slam cause there r just too many players better than her at the moment & outscore her in the talent department.

the only way I can see lena winning a slam is if she has a decent draw & racks up wins over the elite consistently or a lot of the elite get injured. by doing that she needs to add variety to her game, play with consistency & improve on her serve (but we said that many times before). i mean her groundies r just marvellous when she is on which is what has helped her stay in the top 10 for 4 consecutive years. I reckon even if her serve was still horrible she could still win a slam with it cause she's got the groundies to back her up & with some new added dimensions (coming into the net etc) it could happen.

plus she has some fighting spirit which might pull her over the line. but at this rate i cannot see her win a slam until we see her make a few adjustments & find out if they work.

Hingie
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:05 AM
I don't think Dementieva is done just yet.

I think she'll probably slip through and go home with the silverware when no one expects it.

selyoink
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:10 AM
I don't think Dementieva is done just yet.

I think she'll probably slip through and go home with the silverware when no one expects it.

I hope you are right but not many people expect her to win any of the slams recently.

Hingie
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:12 AM
I hope you are right but not many people expect her to win any of the slams recently.

Let Marti win her first one in a few years, and then it can be Dementieva's turn! ;)

selyoink
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:13 AM
Let Marti win her first one in a few years, and then it can be Dementieva's turn! ;)

No. Hingis already has plenty of slams. Lena needs one. :p

Shimizu Amon
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:00 AM
I'm sorry to say, but I don't think that Jelena will ever win a GS.
There are always players in the field that are better than Jelena, especially during a GS.

LUXXXAS
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:02 AM
hope she won't :tape:

Maria Croft
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:46 AM
I don't think so, she has to play her best tennis, and have some serious luck to do that, but since she made 2 finals it's not impossible.

Viktymise
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:48 AM
Yes ;) i hope she gets Olga Morozova back in her corner to help

miffedmax
Dec 28th, 2006, 02:39 PM
I think Lena has a good shot in NYC. She's made the semis there often enough, and I think she has one or two good runs left in her. She also appears to be taking the AO seriously this year, which is a long shot but a good surface for her (at least on paper).

Of course, being a fan of hers I would love to see her win a slam. But it won't make one bit of difference to me if she doesn't. She'll always be one of my all-time favorites on the women's side of the game.

jazar
Dec 28th, 2006, 05:47 PM
its possible, i think she has the talent to beat any player out there, its just being able to string it together mentally for 7 matches in a row

Uranus
Dec 28th, 2006, 05:53 PM
I hope so. One step forward and she will ;)

disco_rage
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:19 PM
I don't think you can write anyone off who was been in TWO Grand Slams finals, and made TWO other SFs and two other QFs.

Her serve maybe a problem but she can beat anyone on her day its just a matter of her playing well on that particular day! And we all know what a fighter she is so i don't think we can write her off just yet... But who knows?

I would love to see Elena win the Australian Open in 2007!

mr_burns
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:20 PM
maybe rg with an injured justine, on clay a lot is possible

Kim's_fan_4ever
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:22 PM
No, I don't think so.

Tenis Srbija
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:28 PM
I would like that soooo much, but I don't see it happening :awww:

RJWCapriati
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:30 PM
If shes going to win any slam....its going to be the U.S. Open.

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:43 PM
I don't think you can write anyone off who was been in TWO Grand Slams finals, and made TWO other SFs and two other QFs.

Her serve maybe a problem but she can beat anyone on her day its just a matter of her playing well on that particular day! And we all know what a fighter she is so i don't think we can write her off just yet... But who knows?

I would love to see Elena win the Australian Open in 2007!

To win a Slam you need a little more than being capable to beat anyone on your day.
And, once more, I can't imagine how the player with non-existent serve could win Grand Slam title. It never happened before and I don't see why it may happen in the future.

Tenis Srbija
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:46 PM
If shes going to win any slam....its going to be the U.S. Open.

Gotta agree with that ;)

disco_rage
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:49 PM
To win a Slam you need a little more than being capable to beat anyone on your day.
And, once more, I can't imagine how the player with non-existent serve could win Grand Slam title. It never happened before and I don't see why it may happen in the future.


If a player with a "non-existent" serve can reach two Grand Slam finals is it really that hard to imagine them winning one more match...?????

Look who beat Dementieva in the Roland Garros final.. I would hardly call Myskina's serve that much better then Dementieva's!

Tenis Srbija
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:49 PM
To win a Slam you need a little more than being capable to beat anyone on your day.
And, once more, I can't imagine how the player with non-existent serve could win Grand Slam title. It never happened before and I don't see why it may happen in the future.

She played two GS finals!!! And she has defeated the players that she lost in those finals... So your's story that she cannot win the GS cause of her's serve, doesn't sticks!!! :)

Tenis Srbija
Dec 28th, 2006, 06:51 PM
If a player with a "non-existent" serve can reach two Grand Slam finals is it really that hard to imagine them winning one more match...?????

Look who beat Dementieva in the Roland Garros final.. I would hardly call Myskina's serve that much better then Dementieva's!

I just love you two Capriati fans :D :D
And you two have the pic's of JC in the same clothes ;)

By the way I totally agree with you...that's what I wrote as well

Craigy
Dec 28th, 2006, 07:13 PM
I'd like her too, just for the sheer fact fact that she fights so hard even with that serve. But I don't think she will :(

égalité
Dec 28th, 2006, 07:30 PM
If Elena Dementieva ever wins a grand slam, I'll go streaking on Arthur Ashe Stadium.

TeamUSA#1
Dec 28th, 2006, 07:41 PM
She is definately not a favorite, but she is a contender.

It is possible. With the right draw and some luck, she for sure could win a slam--- look what happend with Mauresmo last year at the AO... 3 retirements in 7 matchs... 2 in the last 2 rounds to players she rarely beats (esp. Clijsters....). Plus, she has been to 2 finals already.

Her serve is troublesome though.... It is hard to imagine her beating 2 top 5 players back to back with that serve--- and that is usually what you have to do to win a slam...

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 28th, 2006, 07:43 PM
If a player with a "non-existent" serve can reach two Grand Slam finals is it really that hard to imagine them winning one more match...?????

Look who beat Dementieva in the Roland Garros final.. I would hardly call Myskina's serve that much better then Dementieva's!

She played two GS finals!!! And she has defeated the players that she lost in those finals... So your's story that she cannot win the GS cause of her's serve, doesn't sticks!!! :)

But she HAS NOT WON!
In RG final after another double-fault she screamed in Russian: I can't serve like this anymore!
That's why she will never win the title. She could get to the final but her serve won't allow her win the last match.

And btw, Myskina's serve a-la 2004 is much better than Dementieva's one. Nastya's first serve was one of her weapons (though not the best, of course) back then and she's never hit more than 2 or 3 double-faults per match.

TeamUSA#1
Dec 28th, 2006, 07:44 PM
She is definately not a favorite, but she is a contender.

It is possible. With the right draw and some luck, she for sure could win a slam--- look what happend with Mauresmo last year at the AO... 3 retirements in 7 matchs... 2 in the last 2 rounds to players she rarely beats (esp. Clijsters....). Plus, she has been to 2 finals already.

Her serve is troublesome though.... It is hard to imagine her beating 2 top 5 players back to back with that serve--- and that is usually what you have to do to win a slam... Having said that, I liked what I saw of her serve at the YEC (even though her results were not great. The rest of her game is top notch... groundies, volleys, movement... she just needs to get that serve better on a consistent basis, and she is in the favorite group for slams.

Would love nothing more (except Capriati returning:D ) than to see Elena win a slam...

No Name Face
Dec 28th, 2006, 08:18 PM
she will win two grand slams next year and the golden grand slam in 2008. :tape: :cool:

Tenis Srbija
Dec 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
But she HAS NOT WON!
In RG final after another double-fault she screamed in Russian: I can't serve like this anymore!
That's why she will never win the title. She could get to the final but her serve won't allow her win the last match.

And btw, Myskina's serve a-la 2004 is much better than Dementieva's one. Nastya's first serve was one of her weapon (though not the best, of course) back then and she never hit more than 2 or 3 double-faults per match.

Are you stupid or what? She was two sets away from GS!!!! That's what are we trying to tell you. You are all about NO FUCKING WAY! - and she was closer than more players will ever be :) That's the whole point... :wavey:

miffedmax
Dec 28th, 2006, 08:24 PM
she will win two grand slams next year and the golden grand slam in 2008. :tape: :cool:

All while finding a cure for AIDS and devising and implementing a fair, lasting and workable plan for peace in the Middle East.

Tenis Srbija
Dec 28th, 2006, 08:30 PM
She is definately not a favorite, but she is a contender.

It is possible. With the right draw and some luck, she for sure could win a slam--- look what happend with Mauresmo last year at the AO... 3 retirements in 7 matchs... 2 in the last 2 rounds to players she rarely beats (esp. Clijsters....). Plus, she has been to 2 finals already.

Her serve is troublesome though.... It is hard to imagine her beating 2 top 5 players back to back with that serve--- and that is usually what you have to do to win a slam... Having said that, I liked what I saw of her serve at the YEC (even though her results were not great. The rest of her game is top notch... groundies, volleys, movement... she just needs to get that serve better on a consistent basis, and she is in the favorite group for slams.

Would love nothing more (except Capriati returning:D ) than to see Elena win a slam...

That's right :) I agree 100 percent...

She was close to beating two top five's last year in FED CUP final. She defeated Mary Pierce 6. in the world, and than 4. in the world Amelie Mauresmo :p Almoust top 5 :D
But in 2004. she defeated two top five players in a row! At French Open R16 she beat Lindsay (4) 6-1 6-3, and than at Q she defeated Amelie (3) 6-4 6-3

IMPOSSIBLE
Dec 28th, 2006, 09:28 PM
comon she Can !

goldenlox
Dec 28th, 2006, 09:47 PM
She's going to have to peak in week 2 of a major. But if she gets an RG draw like Sveta did, she can.
Sveta was in the half with Amelie, Venus and Maria. If Lena gets that draw at RG, she has a real shot.

KoOlMaNsEaN
Dec 28th, 2006, 10:39 PM
Not with her 2nd serve she can't. Too many players can beat her when she's at her best.

Ben.
Dec 28th, 2006, 10:56 PM
i reckon even with that horrible serve of hers she could still sneak a slam title if she has her groundies at 100% & fighting spirit plus some added extra variety & some luck to boot.

but i still recommend that she improves her serve to a satifisfied level.

saki
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:02 PM
No. And not just because of her serve which is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's so inconsistent that it has the element of suprise. I'm not kidding - watch Justine playing Lena, she hates returning Lena's serve because it's often so much slower than she's expecting that it messes up her timing.

Lena has other problems - her shot selection isn't as good as it could be and she seems to find it difficult to turn up mentally for really important matches.

UDACHi
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Not with her 2nd serve she can't. Too many players can beat her when she's at her best.

have you ever seen elena at her best?

LudwigDvorak
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:05 PM
Did everyone just ignore what I said about her on clay? She could easily win an American clay French Open since it's much faster, but she just doesn't vary her game enough to do well on the grounds of Roland Garros. She won an American clay tournament, made the final the other, and then made a quarterfinal in Berlin like five years ago and then a quarterfinal in Rome after a bye and walkover. And then out of nowhere the Roland Garros final. I say just face it, a lot of players do well at RG once and never again. I don't see Elena ever winning the French.

But anyway, enough negativity. I can understand why people say she can't win a Slam, because of her serve. But she has a serve now; she hit eight aces at the US Open this year, five of them in one match. Her serve is still inconsistent, but it's getting better. It's been a slow improvement, but just look at how she served against Clijsters in the Antwerp semifinal. She ended up with like 14 double faults, but throughout the match, and the set she won, she served beautiful. She was getting Clijsters really pushed around with it, and when Dementieva got a short ball back, she barely knew what to do with it because that never happens with her. It's amusing.

The serve is not as much of a liability anymore. If she can serve 73 double faults in five matches at Indian Wells and make the final still, it just shows how good the rest of her game is. 13 of those double faults were against J2H, too.

I dunno. I'm positive about it. She can win a Slam. Saki is right though, her shot selection could be a helluva lot better. Hitting it up the middle isn't going to cut it out against the top players. But she wasn't doing that when she had a 20-4 start at the year and playing extremely impressively, so yeah.

Ben.
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:07 PM
No. And not just because of her serve which is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's so inconsistent that it has the element of suprise. I'm not kidding - watch Justine playing Lena, she hates returning Lena's serve because it's often so much slower than she's expecting that it messes up her timing.

Lena has other problems - her shot selection isn't as good as it could be and she seems to find it difficult to turn up mentally for really important matches.

well said. i suppose that's how lena wins some of her matches.

lena just needs variety in her game, not just whack balls hard all the time & of course as you just mentioned she needs to be good at shot selecting.

hablo
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:15 PM
Well never say never ; look at Momo ! :p

Ben.
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:17 PM
Did everyone just ignore what I said about her on clay? She could easily win an American clay French Open since it's much faster, but she just doesn't vary her game enough to do well on the grounds of Roland Garros. She won an American clay tournament, made the final the other, and then made a quarterfinal in Berlin like five years ago and then a quarterfinal in Rome after a bye and walkover. And then out of nowhere the Roland Garros final. I say just face it, a lot of players do well at RG once and never again. I don't see Elena ever winning the French.

But anyway, enough negativity. I can understand why people say she can't win a Slam, because of her serve. But she has a serve now; she hit eight aces at the US Open this year, five of them in one match. Her serve is still inconsistent, but it's getting better. It's been a slow improvement, but just look at how she served against Clijsters in the Antwerp semifinal. She ended up with like 14 double faults, but throughout the match, and the set she won, she served beautiful. She was getting Clijsters really pushed around with it, and when Dementieva got a short ball back, she barely knew what to do with it because that never happens with her. It's amusing.

The serve is not as much of a liability anymore. If she can serve 73 double faults in five matches at Indian Wells and make the final still, it just shows how good the rest of her game is. 13 of those double faults were against J2H, too.

I dunno. I'm positive about it. She can win a Slam. Saki is right though, her shot selection could be a helluva lot better. Hitting it up the middle isn't going to cut it out against the top players. But she wasn't doing that when she had a 20-4 start at the year and playing extremely impressively, so yeah.

i heard somewhere that lena use to have at least a decent serve in her early days like 1999-2000 (i dunno exactly the years) & then she got a shoulder injury i think & then had to revert to slice serving & ever since then she's been serving like this which has given her the name of one of the worse servers in the game.

but hey with some adjustments here & there she can well do it.

LudwigDvorak
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah, that's what happened. She used to have a pretty big serve, but it just kind of went away. It's all mental now that her shoulder healed. She should see a sports psychiatrist; it'd help her a good bit.

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:47 PM
lena just needs variety in her game, not just whack balls hard all the time & of course as you just mentioned she needs to be good at shot selecting.

Hello! She's never had variety in her game. Her shot selection is predictable by everyone who's played her at least once. And I don't know how at 25 all of sudden she could add some variety to her strokes and/or game plan. She is all about running two meters behind baseline hitting powerful but neither deep enough nor angle-creating (for sure, there is no such word but you understand what I mean, I hope) cross-courts. Sometimes it works but it doesn't work at the Slams finals or when she meets several top-players a row - just look at her YEC record.

Ben.
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Yeah, that's what happened. She used to have a pretty big serve, but it just kind of went away. It's all mental now that her shoulder healed. She should see a sports psychiatrist; it'd help her a good bit.

yeah she should see a sports psychiatrist if she wants to improve on her serve, but i don't think she needs it that badly. at least i'm not the only one who knows this story.

DemWilliamsGulls
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:58 PM
If she can fix her special ed elementary bootleg serve she might can win one...

Farina Elia Fan
Dec 28th, 2006, 11:59 PM
I have said yes for the last 3 years - but not anymore :sad:

Ben.
Dec 29th, 2006, 12:00 AM
Hello! She's never had variety in her game. Her shot selection is predictable by everyone who's played her at least once. And I don't know how at 25 all of sudden she could add some variety to her strokes and/or game plan. She is all about running two meters behind baseline hitting powerful but neither deep enough nor angle-creating (for sure, there is no such word but you understand what I mean, I hope) cross-courts. Sometimes it works but it doesn't work at the Slams finals or when she meets several top-players a row - just look at her YEC record.

ok then.

drake3781
Dec 29th, 2006, 12:08 AM
Unless she stops being a stubborn bitch fixes that serve and hires a different coach, she's not winning any slams.

There was a recent thread on why she doesn't do something to improve her serve... but I can't remember the consensus. What was the reason we came up with?

AnnaK_4ever
Dec 29th, 2006, 12:10 AM
Before this year US Open I really thought she would win a Grand Slam sooner or later but after her fightingless (again, not sure if such word exists), talentless loss to Jankovic (on this case in Russian we say "слила") I revised my opinion.

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Lena is fine on red clay. She's not hard court and green clay only.

blumaroo
Dec 29th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Anything can happen but I think NO.
Her game is the most one-dimensional of the top 10. She runs and hits everything either cross or up the middle until she gets an easy ball she can whack away. She doesn't create angles like some other hardhitters and she doesn't come to the net nearly enough. With her bad serving, every match is a battle. It's almost impossible to win 7 straight matches like that physically and mentally. And she hasnt beaten a significant player in a slam since how long?

UDACHi
Dec 29th, 2006, 01:33 AM
elena is just fine on red clay. she can pretty much play on any surface, it's just a matter of what time she's playing well. she saved russia's ass at fed cup on red clay in 2005 and has several good runs on it.

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 11:26 AM
The bottom line is, that although most majors are won by the few players who usually get to the semis, every now and then, a player gets on a roll in week 2 of a major.
If Elena can do that at RG or NYC, she can win that major.

.Andrew.
Dec 29th, 2006, 01:46 PM
I hope so.. I think it'll come at NYC or Roland Garros most likely :worship: :rocker: :bounce: Go Lena!

vutt
Dec 29th, 2006, 02:10 PM
The bottom line is, that although most majors are won by the few players who usually get to the semis, every now and then, a player gets on a roll in week 2 of a major.
If Elena can do that at RG or NYC, she can win that major.

Yes, but until at least 1 top tenner is on the roll to she will not win a major. That's her biggest problem.

Plus on red clay GS I think that Myskinas final will remain her life's best result.

A_Skywalker
Dec 29th, 2006, 03:09 PM
I hope she can , but the facts says other . She doesnt have stable serve , if she doesnt win a GS it will be mostly because of that .

Corswandt
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Elena rarely does well on clay. It just doesn't work with her. She can't hit through the ball and it's difficult to add much pace. If she can beat someone on clay, it basically means they weren't playing that great. American clay is different, but I mean primarily on European clay where aside from the '04 final, she's never had any good results.

[...]

Clay just requires so much clever thought and play, and Elena just doesn't live up to it 99% of the time.

Agreed. Red clay is Lena's worst surface. Apart from RG 2004 and the Fed Cup final in 2005, she's never done anything noteworthy on it. And 2006 showed that the big red clay events, like Berlin, Rome and RG, and probably the tournaments where the competition is stiffer nowadays.

Her game, which by necessity hinges around grinding and outlasting her opponents, is no longer as effective as it once was because the Tour players have improved their fitness levels and there are more and more warrior-type players, like Peer, who can fight it out to the bitter end with every bit as much intensity as she does.

She could still have a (slim) shot at a Slam, particularly the USO, where the chances of meeting a depleted field, with several of the main contenders injured, tired or burnt out, is somewhat bigger.

I think that her USO QF loss finally hammered into Lena that no, she will never win a Slam. Let's see if that didn't radically change her outlook on her own career.

LudwigDvorak
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:09 PM
To Elena's credit, her fitness is arguably the best on the Tour. Aside from the blip in Stuttgart, I don't recall her being injured at all this year. Or last year. And only two or three times in '04. She can still outlast everyone, but the only thing is that she can't outhit them all anymore. Do you see her when she goes against Sharapova? It's like Elena can't make an angle for the life of her, Sharapova's just pushing that hard. But aside from her, I can't think of anyone else that makes it that drastic for Elena.

I've only seen about six matches of hers from '04, but she went to net a decent bit in each match. She rarely ever ventures there anymore, and when she does, she usually gets the point. She needs a coach to instill that confidence in her to approach the net more often. She would never have beaten Mauresmo or Capriati in the US Open had she not come to net as often as she did.

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:13 PM
She just beat Sharapova in LA.
She made an RG final. She likes red clay, and the slower the better.

LudwigDvorak
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:16 PM
It was an awful match, the LA semifinal. It's on youtube; the ONLY reason Elena won is because Sharapova couldn't keep a ball in. She was, at best, 50 percent of what she could normally do.

Yeah, she likes red clay. So do I. I can barely walk on it let alone play tennis on it. She's made an RG final and two RG fourth rounds. Pretty big disparity there.

And everyone keeps saying "Oh, she made two finals!!!!!!" This was in 2004, people. Two full seasons have cycled since. And in that span of time, ONE semifinal. She can win a Slam, but if she can't even make semifinals, how are we to figure she'll make a final, let alone win it?

It just makes me angry remembering how she blew her fourth round matches at the first three Slams in '05. She won the first set against Schnyder, was leading in the second, blew it; she got nervous in the third set against Likhovtseva and barely lost; then she blew a 6-1 3-0 lead over an obviously distressed Myskina and still held match point at Wimbledon. She could have beaten Dechy in the quarters to make the semi at Australia, she could have beaten Karantacheva to make the semi in Paris, she might not have beaten Mauresmo in England but it'd be a first quarterfinal a little bit earlier. These are "just" fourth rounds, too. Blah.

The Daviator
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:18 PM
I would love to see it, she's one of my faves, but I'm also beginning to think that it's not going to happen, seeing her suck again at the YEC said everything, against the other top players, she's out of her league, she is good enough to beat anyone, but only on a freak day, i.e. Tokyo final '06, if you look at her Slam final runs, at RG, she did play with variety, she came to the net a lot in her quarter against Mauresmo (The best match I've ever seen her play btw), shame she froze in the final, to me she was really in full flow at that Slam...

At the US Open, she was really lucky, two wins 7-6 in the 3rd, she just sneaked into the final there, again, shame she couldn't win the final, it was a great opportunity, but I doubt she'll get that lucky again, she can't beat 3 top players in a single Slam...

I would love it though, I only want good things for her :)

Dexter
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I really hope so!.

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:23 PM
For a lot of players, winning a major is about catching the right situation.
For Lena, it would be a situation like Sveta had this year.
RG, with Justine, Kim, Hingis - all in the other half.
Then you hope Justine wears down over the 2 weeks, or gets knocked off.
Justine lost in 2004, and had mp's against her in 2005. She's no lock to be in a RG final.
I think it would be harder for her to win in NYC. Mauresmo and Sharapova are bigger threats in NY than Paris.

.Andrew.
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:24 PM
I would love to see it, she's one of my faves, but I'm also beginning to think that it's not going to happen, seeing her suck again at the YEC said everything, against the other top players, she's out of her league, she is good enough to beat anyone, but only on a freak day, i.e. Tokyo final '06, if you look at her Slam final runs, at RG, she did play with variety, she came to the net a lot in her quarter against Mauresmo (The best match I've ever seen her play btw), shame she froze in the final, to me she was really in full flow at that Slam...

At the US Open, she was really lucky, two wins 7-6 in the 3rd, she just sneaked into the final there, again, shame she couldn't win the final, it was a great opportunity, but I doubt she'll get that lucky again, she can't beat 3 top players in a single Slam...

I would love it though, I only want good things for her :)

I so agree with your point... The YEC really proved that she can't compete with the Top in a daily basis... I also want the best for her, but I don't think she can do it... I think it can happen in RG and US Open like I said earlier but it's gonna take a lot of game and a lot of tired/injured/ top players...

Wayn77
Dec 29th, 2006, 04:47 PM
Yes - without a doubt. :cool:

if she can hold her serve together in the second week. :tape:

Il Primo!
Dec 29th, 2006, 05:01 PM
She loves red clay, she loves red clay, what did she do at RG these latest 2 years? NOTHING. She made only one 1/4 or futher there during her whole career, c'mon! Even Sharapova can smack her ass properly on red clay (eg 61 64 at Roma in 2004).
Her best shot is the US Open but I mean, lots of top players feel better in NY too. With her crappy serve and mental, she couldn't make it. And to be honest, she's not that talented.
Lena is no consistent enough to win a GS, she's likely to finish her career slamless and she will unless the tour gets ill as never. Get real

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 05:18 PM
She wasn't healthy for RG 2005. This year she had a terrible RG draw.

Niunia
Dec 29th, 2006, 05:23 PM
I hope she does...so I must to say yes she will...

ayusania
Dec 29th, 2006, 05:29 PM
maybe she can coz she has made to 2 finals.....but needs luck!

miffedmax
Dec 29th, 2006, 05:30 PM
I don't think the YEC proves a thing about Elena. I have gotten the impression that she doesn't take it very seriousy (whether she should or not is a whole other argument). Since she misses so few tournaments, I think she usually arrives emotionally and physically tired and more interested in spending some time someplace nice and warm than she is in playing her best tennis. And the paycheck for showing up isn't too bad.

I agree with the comments about her net play. She does really well when she comes to the net, where her speed, strength and good size all come into play. With her deep, hard groundstrokes she could set up a lot of winners at the net. I think that would mean shorter points and give her a weapon that compensates for her serve since most of today's players aren't great at the net.

As far as beating Masha in LA, one of the reasons TOB was hitting everything long is because that was Lena's strategy--keep in ball in play and let TOB make mistakes rather than getting into a slugfest (where even the hardhitting Elena is no match for TOB, I'll give her credit there).

The key difference: that tournament, Lena had her brother Seva coaching her, NOT Mommy Vera. If Lena is going to insist on keeping things all in the family, I would like to see her use Seva to coach her more often. He was a pretty good player in his own right, and seems to be more interested in scouting players and planning strategies than shopping for blue jeans.

One trend I notice is that Lena is that once Lena "solves" a player (beats her for the first time) her h2h seems to improve (especially against Momo, Venus, JHH and Nastya). She won't beat them every time, but she won't just get bitchslapped around the court either. To me, that says the problem isn't with Elena's basic game, but with her strategy.

So, to sum up:

1. Right now, I don't see Lena being any more than a darkhorse--a slight chance to win a GS, but I'm not putting v-cash, let alone real money, on it. NYC is her best shot IMHO.

2. If Elena gets a real coach, she could greatly enhance her chances of winning a major--but she needs to do it soon. Forget the fucking serve and work on her net game. She'd still be a darkhorse, but she'd move up to the top of the dark horse list.

3. Win, lose or draw, Lena D. f-ing rox, and I'll cheer for her to the end, no matter how happy or how bitter that may be.

LudwigDvorak
Dec 29th, 2006, 06:01 PM
Miffedmax, absolutely perfect acumen of what she should do. But the thing I'm wondering about, if that was the strategy before and it worked, why not employ it again? When I see Sharapova play I normally don't see her make many errors at all. She seemed to keep things neutral at YEC and in play, but it wasn't working at all.

No Name Face
Dec 29th, 2006, 06:19 PM
She loves red clay, she loves red clay, what did she do at RG these latest 2 years? NOTHING. She made only one 1/4 or futher there during her whole career, c'mon! Even Sharapova can smack her ass properly on red clay (eg 61 64 at Roma in 2004).
Her best shot is the US Open but I mean, lots of top players feel better in NY too. With her crappy serve and mental, she couldn't make it. And to be honest, she's not that talented.
Lena is no consistent enough to win a GS, she's likely to finish her career slamless and she will unless the tour gets ill as never. Get real

you're a fucking idiot. elena has like...no serve...the fact that she's been in the top 10 for so long (and has beaten the top players) proves that she's immensely talented.

charmedRic
Dec 29th, 2006, 06:36 PM
I want to say yes, but it's not likely. If she does win a Slam it'll be at the US Open, which she should have won in '04. I can't help but agree with Gnaag--she played out of her mind in '04 and still couldn't win a Slam. It's the best I've ever seen her play and I've seen little since that shows she can be as versatile and open-minded to change her game-plan when she's down and out as in '04. Something just happened. (Like getting rid of her coach--obviously the reason she accomplished so much in '04.)

She's past her prime, but I still love her. Yet, I can't help but feel many felt she was past her prime in '01 and '02, but she was younger then, so there was still a good chance for her to break out. The window, as Gnaag said, continues to diminish.

She can still break out and win a Slam. It's not impossible. Had she defeated Schruff in Australia, she would have run into Vesnina in the third (probably), and had she beaten her, she would have faced Petrova in the fourth, then Sharapova in the quarterfinal--that's a tough draw. But, if she had a good draw, like she did this year the US Open, and actually beat who she's supposed to beat, she'd be in the semifinals or even final.

Ditto.

Derek.
Dec 29th, 2006, 06:54 PM
No.

Most of the top players can beat her on any surface.

Sharapova has a better chance of winning RG than Dementieva does.

Il Primo!
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:01 PM
you're a fucking idiot. elena has like...no serve...the fact that she's been in the top 10 for so long (and has beaten the top players) proves that she's immensely talented.

Don't agree. Her serve can be quite good, it's not like if she makes 15UE a match, at every single match she plays. She just has these days where her serve is totally out of control but it's not always this way. And when she beats these top players her serve is quite good.
To beat these girls out top10, you just have to have a good return, and solid groundies. And the fact she has these qualities doesn't make her a good player.
And please, is it a reason to be rude?

MikeJones
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:06 PM
"Will Elena Dementieva ever win a grand slam???"

no :o

No Name Face
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Don't agree. Her serve can be quite good, it's not like if she makes 15UE a match, at every single match she plays. She just has these days where her serve is totally out of control but it's not always this way. And when she beats these top players her serve is quite good.

yeah, definitely an idiot.

when she's serving well, her serve is quite average. it's just that we're so used to shitty serves, that when she uses proper technique or hits above 100mph, we're wowed. it's called relativity. if venus served like dementieva on one of her good serving days, then we'd be saying venus is serving poorly. even back in the day, dementieva's serve wasn't good, it was just average --- albeit more reliable. she never had a big serve by any standards.


To beat these girls out top10, you just have to have a good return, and solid groundies. And the fact she has these qualities doesn't make her a good player.

oh i see, so when sharapova lost to jamea jackson in straights on grass (her best surface) all she needed was a good return and solid groundies. :weirdo:

and assuming that venus and serena decide to not suck, all it will take is a solid return and good groundies to beat them. :weirdo: tell that to schnyder.


And please, is it a reason to be rude?

sure. i can't stand it when stupid people give stupid opinions without knowing or realizing that they are in fact, STUPID.

Neptune
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:18 PM
yeah, definitely an idiot. .

sure. i can't stand it when stupid people give stupid opinions without knowing or realizing that they are in fact, STUPID.

You seem to be broad-minded;I like people as you.....

miffedmax
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Miffedmax, absolutely perfect acumen of what she should do. But the thing I'm wondering about, if that was the strategy before and it worked, why not employ it again? When I see Sharapova play I normally don't see her make many errors at all. She seemed to keep things neutral at YEC and in play, but it wasn't working at all.

Having followed Lena for all these years, as I said I don't think she really puts much effort into the YEC.

So I don't think that performance says too much. I also think that the strategy against TOB won't work ALL the time--Masha will win some--but it will work more often than trying to outslug her, which hasn't worked for Lena D. yet.

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:50 PM
I think her game is made for red clay. It's a reactive, defense oriented game.
I'd like to see her prepare properly for RG. Maybe skip Fed Cup this April.

Il Primo!
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:55 PM
To no name face:
My error is that I should have said "non top 10 material player" instead of "non top 10".
But I still think that to defeat this kind of player, solid groundies and return are enough. But the fact is when a top player loses against them, it coz she wasn't consistent that day. It implies that her game, groundies and returns included, were off. So this explains for example Maria's loss at Birmingham. It's no need to have a good serve to beat these player, a normal serve, as Dementieva's, is enough.
Anyways, the real question is to know if she's able or not to win a GS. The answer is NO, and coz you're not stupid *period*, you perfectly know it. Unfornatelly, insulting me won't make her win a slam.
:wavey:

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Unfornatelly, insulting me won't make her win a slam.

If insulting Sharapova fans helped Dementieva to win majors, she would have 20 already.

miffedmax
Dec 29th, 2006, 08:35 PM
Unfornatelly, insulting me won't make her win a slam.

If insulting Sharapova fans helped Dementieva to win majors, she would have 20 already.

But it hasn't KEPT Lena D. from winning one either, has it? :devil: ;)

~Cherry*Blossom~
Dec 29th, 2006, 08:47 PM
I say no. I don't think she can.

But I thought the same thing about Mauresmo and look what she went on to do :shrug:

Derek.
Dec 29th, 2006, 08:52 PM
Unfornatelly, insulting me won't make her win a slam.

If insulting Sharapova fans helped Dementieva to win majors, she would have 20 already.

Because you guys are the most mature of the bunch.

goldenlox
Dec 29th, 2006, 09:23 PM
А вы в курсе, что в этом матче за нашу команду впервые хочет сыграть Мария Шарапова?
- Да? Нет, не слышала. Сама заявила на пресс-конференции? Вы знаете, мне пока сложно представить себя в одной команде с Шараповой. Она столько раз говорила, что будет играть за Россию, а потом находились какие-то причины, чтобы отказаться. Я не удивлюсь, если ближе к матчу она опять передумает.

No Name Face
Dec 29th, 2006, 09:40 PM
А вы в курсе, что в этом матче за нашу команду впервые хочет сыграть Мария Шарапова?
- Да? Нет, не слышала. Сама заявила на пресс-конференции? Вы знаете, мне пока сложно представить себя в одной команде с Шараповой. Она столько раз говорила, что будет играть за Россию, а потом находились какие-то причины, чтобы отказаться. Я не удивлюсь, если ближе к матчу она опять передумает.

what do sharapova and i have in common?

we both don't know what the hell that means. :tape: :tape:

Geertvg
Dec 29th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Im' afraid she's missed her chances :(