PDA

View Full Version : This time 10 years ago...


Hingie
Dec 23rd, 2006, 09:30 AM
... a 16-year old Swiss was on the brink of greatness.

http://www.teamwta.com/shop/images/martina96.jpg

She had lost to Steffi Graf, one of the all time greats in the semi finals of the US Open after defeating Sanchez-Vicario and Novotna in the prevoius rounds.

A few weeks later, she pushed Steffi to 5 sets in final of the year end Championships.

Then came 1997, and she won the first tournament of the year she played (Sydney), defeating Capriati in the final.

Then the Australian Open, and the 4th ranked Hingis tore through the field winning the tournament without losing a set. She was to become the youngest player in the Open Era to win a Grand Slam (to this day holds this record). Hingis certainly didn't lack confidence, stating in her victory speech that she would have played mixed doubles but that she should let someone else win (she won the women's doubles with Zvereva).

http://www.tennis-histoire.com/images/record/hingis-australie97.jpg

Hingis also won the Pan Pacific Open after a walkover in the final (she was to play Graf).

Hingis became the youngest #1 in the Open Era, when on 31 March, she was on top of the women's tennis ladder, at 16 years and 6 months.

Weeks later, she won the Paris indoors, defeating Huber in the final.

Hingis only lost 3 games to Seles in the final in Miami and defeated her once again in the final of Hilton Head (this time in 3 sets). Weeks prior to the French Open, Hingis fell off her horse lost to Iva Majoli in the final, after defeating Sanchez-Vicario and Seles in the 2 prior rounds.

Her next tournament, and it was Wimbledon. A much hyped semi final showdown with Kournikova turned into a one-sided affair as Hingis won it 3 and 2. After looking out of it in the first set, Hingis adjusted to the net play of Novotna in the final and won the most lucrative tennis tournament.

http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~david/derya/gw/hingis.jpg

Hingis went on to win Stanford and San Diego, defeating Martinez and Seles in the finals.

On to the US Open, and Hingis scored wins over Sanchez-Vicario and Davenport in the quarter final and semi (both in straight sets). She took on the emerging star Venus Williams in the final and completely outclassed her, taking it 0 and 4.

http://www.monoli.com/tennis/usopen97/usopen9710.jpg

Hingis went on to win Filderstadt (defeating Lisa Raymond in the final) and weeks later, won Philadelphia (defeating Davenport).

Hingis won 12 tournaments in 1997. She ended the year with a 75-5 win/loss record, equating to a .938 percentage (better than anyone in the 90's).

She began the 1997 season with 37 straight wins (equalling Navratilova and only behind Graf).


Ok, so i'm a bit bored and with 2007 just around the corner, it seems like a lifetime ago since Hingis burst onto the scene. Her talent was incredible back then, and combined with unsurpassed confidence, she was deadly. The backhand down the line, anticipation and all court play were all great assets she utilised brilliantly to tear through the field in 1997.

I for one, would love nothing more than to see her achieve Slam success once again, and while i concede it will be tough and the top of the women's game is strong at the moment, i still think she can do it. I hope she does it in her 10 year anniversary since she made a name for herself in the tennis world.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5276864,00.jpg

GO MARTI IN 2007. :bounce:

up!
Dec 23rd, 2006, 09:45 AM
Go Martina!! Trust yourself!

Ben.
Dec 23rd, 2006, 10:13 AM
Going back down memory lane bout Martina is just incredible. Can't believe what a dominant force she was back in 1997 & nothing more than winning a slam for martina in the 2nd part of her career would sure bring her great joy & satisfaction.

Go Martina in 2007 :yeah:

Princeza
Dec 23rd, 2006, 10:20 AM
can't believe its already 10 years,i grew up with Marti!

pooh14
Dec 23rd, 2006, 10:31 AM
her win in Aussie Open 97 was when I started following tennins.
When she retired, i barely followed, untill this YEAR.

I just hope she wins a slam in 07 ;)

Sund7101
Dec 23rd, 2006, 04:01 PM
I can't wait for the year to start, and I think Martina is going to have a great year.

She played so well at the YEC and has proven she's still got game, I think she has a real shot at the AO in 07.

Shonami Slam
Dec 23rd, 2006, 04:19 PM
jana losing that one :headbang: :hugecry:

Tenis Srbija
Dec 23rd, 2006, 04:44 PM
That was a great year :awww:

LudwigDvorak
Dec 23rd, 2006, 05:19 PM
I don't even like Hingis and I'm hoping she wins a Slam next year. Well, really just the French, since I know that's the one trophy she's missing. And I'll take Hingis winning it over J2H. Three times is plenty, Justine.

charmedRic
Dec 23rd, 2006, 06:14 PM
:-) Yayness.

Steffica Greles
Dec 23rd, 2006, 06:25 PM
... a 16-year old Swiss was on the brink of greatness.

http://www.teamwta.com/shop/images/martina96.jpg

She had lost to Steffi Graf, one of the all time greats in the semi finals of the US Open after defeating Lindsay Davenport 6-3 in the third in a quality quarter final.


I thought it was Novotna she defeated in the 1996 U.S Open quarter-final, in straight sets? I'm sure I remember hearing it on the radio. She defeated Sanchez-Vicario in the last 16.

Hingis was indeed a phenomenal prospect at that time. It's a pity Graf was injured in 1997, otherwise we would have seen some great battles.

Looking back, though, I do think that people were waiting for another Graf, Seles or Navratilova to come along and take over the women's game. Hingis had seemed the obvious candidate at that point for two years. There was an assumption that she was "the next". The reality, however, was that she was not quite the phenomenon that those players prior to her had been. A great player, nonetheless.

Some poignant pictures, though.

thrust
Dec 23rd, 2006, 06:33 PM
I give Hingis a FO, if Jusine gets a Wimbledon-lol!!

samn
Dec 23rd, 2006, 06:37 PM
I thought it was Novotna she defeated in the 1996 U.S Open quarter-final, in straight sets? I'm sure I remember hearing it on the radio. She defeated Sanchez-Vicario in the last 16.



You're right; Hingis defeated Sanchez-Vicario in three sets in the fourth round and Novotna in straight sets in the quarters before losing to Graf in a tight semifinal that was a lot closer than the scoreline might suggest.

Drake1980
Dec 23rd, 2006, 06:39 PM
Very cool!:banana: Can't believe that was 10 yrs ago though:scared:

croat123
Dec 23rd, 2006, 07:26 PM
1997 was the best year in women's tennis for me. majoli won rg in singles and lucic turned pro, winning her first nine matches (including a top10 win)

Hingie
Dec 23rd, 2006, 09:20 PM
I thought it was Novotna she defeated in the 1996 U.S Open quarter-final, in straight sets? I'm sure I remember hearing it on the radio. She defeated Sanchez-Vicario in the last 16.

Hingis was indeed a phenomenal prospect at that time. It's a pity Graf was injured in 1997, otherwise we would have seen some great battles.

Looking back, though, I do think that people were waiting for another Graf, Seles or Navratilova to come along and take over the women's game. Hingis had seemed the obvious candidate at that point for two years. There was an assumption that she was "the next". The reality, however, was that she was not quite the phenomenon that those players prior to her had been. A great player, nonetheless.

Some poignant pictures, though.

Steffica - while i think your level of tennis knowledge is very advanced, do you really need to put a negative slant on every post you make regarding Hingis?

FACT - she was the youngest tennis prodigy the game has seen. What she achieved in 1997 was remarkable for someone of her age and will probably not be replicated by anyone for quite some time (if ever).

FACT - yes when the game became all about power and athleticism Hingis struggled (something she probably forced others to achieve as her consistency was too much for many to handle).

FACT - she is one of the most talented players to have played the game. Not manufactured talent, but God-given. For someone like her who is not incredibly athletic or does not possess overwhelming power, to compete in today's game and achieve what she has, that is the true testament to the ability of Hingis.

FACT - very few will be happier than me to see her achieve Slam glory in 2007. ;)

Steffica Greles
Dec 23rd, 2006, 09:33 PM
Steffica - while i think your level of tennis knowledge is very advanced, do you really need to put a negative slant on every post you make regarding Hingis?

Thanks. I don't put a negative slant on Hingis, as far as I'm aware. I'm acutely aware that other people seem to think I do.

All I ever do is post the truth as I see it.

If you wanted me to list the positive things about Hingis, I could do that very easily -- there is much to choose from. But that is normally endeavoured to be done by other people, as you have shown below. Why would I want to post something that's already been said? I prefer to post what hasn't been said.

:)


FACT - she was the youngest tennis prodigy the game has seen. What she achieved in 1997 was remarkable for someone of her age and will probably not be replicated by anyone for quite some time (if ever).

FACT - yes when the game became all about power and athleticism Hingis struggled (something she probably forced others to achieve as her consistency was too much for many to handle).

FACT - she is one of the most talented players to have played the game. Not manufactured talent, but God-given. For someone like her who is not incredibly athletic or does not possess overwhelming power, to compete in today's game and achieve what she has, that is the true testament to the ability of Hingis.

FACT - very few will be happier than me to see her achieve Slam glory in 2007. ;)

I think your second "fact" is an interpretation, but actually I think it is a very good interpretation. I wrote a thread about "the legacy of Hingis" at some point in 2003, or maybe early 2004. That was my basic argument.

PLP
Dec 24th, 2006, 12:07 AM
I give Hingis a FO, if Jusine gets a Wimbledon-lol!!

Wow, that would be an incredible story if they both achieved their career singles slams in back-to-back GS's! I would be so thrilled for both of them!!!

I was actually just watching Hingis/Schiavone from Rome and Martina really schooled Fran for most of that match. I want to see Martina win RG next year sooooooo badly and the list is very short of players that can beat Martina on clay IMO: JuJu/Momo/Wlliamssisters&Petrova&Sveta(maybe)...

Steffica Greles
Dec 24th, 2006, 12:12 AM
I think Hingis always has played her best tennis on clay. It is absolute poetry in motion watching her changing directions and manoeuvring her opponents to all angles of the court.

I think her problem with clay has always been endurance. She struggles to hit winners at the best of times, so on clay she can sometimes seem thoroughly impotent, for all her ability to spread the ball and create angles. She ends up embroiled in exhausting rallies in which she cannot hit the ball past the greater athletes.

So Hingis and clay is a paradox: she plays her best tennis on the surface, but at the same time she is most vulnerable to her opponents on it.

pooh14
Dec 24th, 2006, 03:11 AM
i think the reason hingis didn't turn up to be that 'great' as Steffi as everyone expected to be is because of the sudden change in the game.

Hingis grew up watching Steffi, Seles, Martina N's game.

However when the william sister came, the change the whole aspect of the game and brought in the power game.

we will never see another dominant player like steffi, or martina N cause the new style of game risk more injury. nobody can play healthy for the current style of game.

look at the william sisters, henin, kim, davenport....they get injured so often. maria s at such a young age also suffers from injury.

where as if you see hingis or patty, they rarely get injured. their style of game, although does not generate power, reduces the risk of injury.

switz
Dec 24th, 2006, 03:47 AM
Yes i'm hoping she steps it up this year and goes deep in at least two slams.

Majoli won that French title fair and square though. I don't see how Hingis could be Seles and Sanchez-Vicario (the two finalist the next year) if she really affected by that. I don't she claimed she was anyway. I just think she thought she had the title won after the quarters and great semi against Seles but Majoli played the match of her life instead.

Martian Stacey
Dec 24th, 2006, 03:57 AM
Great thread :yeah: Its nice to look back on everything Martina has achieved :) I just wish I was a fan back then so I could have seen it all happen :(

I would love to see her win a slam next year, but I think its an almost impossible task.

hingisGOAT
Dec 24th, 2006, 07:06 AM
I think Hingis always has played her best tennis on clay. It is absolute poetry in motion watching her changing directions and manoeuvring her opponents to all angles of the court.

I think her problem with clay has always been endurance. She struggles to hit winners at the best of times, so on clay she can sometimes seem thoroughly impotent, for all her ability to spread the ball and create angles. She ends up embroiled in exhausting rallies in which she cannot hit the ball past the greater athletes.

So Hingis and clay is a paradox: she plays her best tennis on the surface, but at the same time she is most vulnerable to her opponents on it.

for once i agree

hingisGOAT
Dec 24th, 2006, 07:08 AM
Great thread :yeah: Its nice to look back on everything Martina has achieved :) I just wish I was a fan back then so I could have seen it all happen :(

I would love to see her win a slam next year, but I think its an almost impossible task.

almost impossible? chew on this: there is a very VERY high probability that by the time hingis plays roland garros (and wimbledon and the us open, naturally) that she will be a top 4 player. so, for three slams this year, hingis could be seeded to reach the semifinals :eek: of course, that's not to say she's going to win anything or live up to her seeding, but it's a promising thought. :bounce:

Hingie
Dec 24th, 2006, 07:15 AM
Great thread :yeah: Its nice to look back on everything Martina has achieved :) I just wish I was a fan back then so I could have seen it all happen :(

I would love to see her win a slam next year, but I think its an almost impossible task.

Stacey - i wish you were a fan back then too cause i tell ya - it was very VERY impressive from the 16-year-old Swiss. The way she dismantled opponents with her variety and confidence was scary at times.

And the consistency :worship:

If she finds form again, actually anything close to what she was, she will win Slams - you can count on it!

hingis-seles
Dec 24th, 2006, 12:25 PM
i think the reason hingis didn't turn up to be that 'great' as Steffi as everyone expected to be is because of the sudden change in the game.

I assumed it was because none of Hingis' chief rivals got stabbed by one of her fans.

Kart
Dec 24th, 2006, 02:17 PM
You're right; Hingis defeated Sanchez-Vicario in three sets in the fourth round and Novotna in straight sets in the quarters before losing to Graf in a tight semifinal that was a lot closer than the scoreline might suggest.

That SF was scarily close for me :eek:.

10 years ago I was busy lamenting the retirement of my fave player but even in the depths of my despair the rise of Martina - finally justifying the hype - was impossible to ignore after that US open run.

Martian KC
Dec 24th, 2006, 03:03 PM
What a memory to live through. I remember that Australian Open thinking who was this wonderkid. I love ya Marti!

.Andrew.
Dec 24th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Thanks! Good luck Marti in 2007! :rocker2: :rocker:

hingis2002cn
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:07 AM
In 1997, I knew Hingis, though I do not like tennis that time.10 years later , everything has changed, It is very very hard for her to claim another GS. If one , I hope that is FO.

LDVTennis
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:31 AM
You're right; Hingis defeated Sanchez-Vicario in three sets in the fourth round and Novotna in straight sets in the quarters before losing to Graf in a tight semifinal that was a lot closer than the scoreline might suggest.


The match was only as close as it was, and only that for one set, because of the large number of unforced errors off of Steffi's racquet.

As it is, Hingis had something like 8 set points in that first set. Steffi denied her all eight by putting the onus back on Hingis to win the points.

In the second set, Hingis would self-destruct as Steffi began playing much better.

Only those who had a stake in hyping Hingis' career still thought after that match that Hingis would ever be able to topple Graf on her (Hingis') own terms.

In that sense, the 1997 US Semifinal vs. Graf wasn't so much a preview of future greatness, as it was a preview of what would happen to Hingis in the '99 FO Final.

Cat's Pajamas
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:35 AM
Although she's not one of my favorites, she is great to have back. I wish the WTA could have another time, like 97-01 where everyone was playing great and less injuries. WTA needs it, as they are failing in comparison to the ATP.

hingisGOAT
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:36 AM
The match was only as close as it was, and only that for one set, because of the large number of unforced errors off of Steffi's racquet.

As it is, Hingis had something like 8 set points in that first set. Steffi denied her all eight by putting the onus back on Hingis to win the points.

In the second set, Hingis would self-destruct as Steffi began playing much better.

Only those who had a stake in hyping Hingis' career still thought after that match that Hingis would ever be able to topple Graf on her (Hingis') own terms.

In that sense, the 1997 US Semifinal vs. Graf wasn't so much a preview of future greatness, as it was a preview of what would happen to Hingis in the '99 FO Final.

what a lovely troll :wavey: hingis would topple graf on her own terms in tokyo a few years later -- and the entire '99 RG final was on hingis' racquet -- graf was nothing more than a bystander from start to finish; the fortunate benificiary of a bad umpire, classless crowd, and her very own unsportsmanlike silence

LDVTennis
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:38 AM
I assumed it was because none of Hingis' chief rivals got stabbed by one of her fans.

Ahh, the bitterness!

Does the memory of the '99 FO Semi and Final still cut so deep?

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:46 AM
The match was only as close as it was, and only that for one set, because of the large number of unforced errors off of Steffi's racquet.

As it is, Hingis had something like 8 set points in that first set. Steffi denied her all eight by putting the onus back on Hingis to win the points.

In the second set, Hingis would self-destruct as Steffi began playing much better.

Only those who had a stake in hyping Hingis' career still thought after that match that Hingis would ever be able to topple Graf on her (Hingis') own terms.

In that sense, the 1997 US Semifinal vs. Graf wasn't so much a preview of future greatness, as it was a preview of what would happen to Hingis in the '99 FO Final.

We'll never agree over Graf and Seles, but on this we certainly do concur.

I never saw the 1996 U.S Open semi-final, but, having witnessed their French Open final of 1999, with Hingis struggling to outmanouevre Graf, and unable to fire winners, I can quite believe your description.

Hingis also lost to Graf in the 1996 Masters final. Then, again in late 1998 in Philadelphia.

Err...Heylookimgay is clearly on another planet. The French Open final of 1999 was an example of an exhausted and frustrated Hingis playing her best tennis but being unable to force the match. The line call made no difference because she still maintained her lead until she served for the match but was outplayed when Graf's weapons came to the rescue. Up until that point, Graf had been inconsistent and only sporadicly showing her best form, seemingly lacking belief and purpose. Hingis' frustration was visibly growing even before the infamous line call in the 2nd set because she was having to work so hard for points against so fine an athlete. Hingis' angles were running Graf to all corners of the court and exhibting all of her talents, but they were not firing holes in Graf's defences, as it were, and Hingis was clearly impotent to decide the match.

LDVTennis
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:49 AM
hingis would topple graf on her own terms in tokyo a few years later -- and the entire '99 RG final was on hingis' racquet -- graf was nothing more than a bystander from start to finish; the fortunate benificiary of a bad umpire, classless crowd, and her very own unsportsmanlike silence

Yeah, that is why Hingis lost? :help:

I know this will make no difference to you. But, here is what some really knowledgeable people in the sport were saying about Hingis in '96:

John Lloyd (commenting for HBO Sports/'96 Wimbledon) opined during the Graf vs. Hingis R16 that "Hingis had no weapons on grass. The best she could do against Graf was get the ball back and hope Graf missed."

Martina Navratilova (commenting for HBO Sports/'96 Wimbledon) when asked how high Hingis could get in the rankings opined that "While Graf and Seles were around, she didn't see Hingis being much higher than No. 3 primarily because Hingis lacked the natural power of both Seles and Graf and the natural speed of a Graf to compensate for her (Hingis') lack of power."

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:54 AM
Yeah, that is why Hingis lost? :help:

I know this will make no difference to you. But, here is what some really knowledgeable people in the sport were saying about Hingis in '96:

John Lloyd (commenting for HBO Sports/'96 Wimbledon) opined during the Graf vs. Hingis R16 that "Hingis had no weapons on grass. The best she could do against Graf was get the ball back and hope Graf missed."

Martina Navratilova (commenting for HBO Sports/'96 Wimbledon) when asked how high Hingis could get in the rankings opined that "While Graf and Seles were around, she didn't see Hingis being much higher than No. 3 primarily because Hingis lacked the natural power of both Seles and Graf and the natural speed of a Graf to compensate for her (Hingis') lack of power."

Hehe. Yeah, and then when Hingis reached no.1 Martina was singing her praises as "the next" just like everybody else.

As for John Lloyd, he is not rated as a good commentator in Britain. He is one of the worst, in fact, particularly for women's tennis.

Sir Stefwhit
Dec 25th, 2006, 06:21 AM
Thank God for Iva Majoli in 1997! :devil:

irma
Dec 25th, 2006, 06:48 AM
This time 10 years ago it was christmas too. so don't hate because somebody won or didn't win a tennismatch/tournament. It's so irrelevant when you really think about it

<------------------- :angel: (j/k)

Sir Stefwhit
Dec 25th, 2006, 07:08 AM
This time 10 years ago it was christmas too. so don't hate because somebody won or didn't win a tennismatch/tournament. It's so irrelevant when you really think about it

<------------------- :angel: (j/k)
Thak God for Iva Majoli in 97 AND of course for JESUS CHRIST... :angel:

Hingie
Dec 25th, 2006, 07:14 AM
We'll never agree over Graf and Seles, but on this we certainly do concur.

I never saw the 1996 U.S Open semi-final, but, having witnessed their French Open final of 1999, with Hingis struggling to outmanouevre Graf, and unable to fire winners, I can quite believe your description.

Hingis also lost to Graf in the 1996 Masters final. Then, again in late 1998 in Philadelphia.

Err...Heylookimgay is clearly on another planet. The French Open final of 1999 was an example of an exhausted and frustrated Hingis playing her best tennis but being unable to force the match. The line call made no difference because she still maintained her lead until she served for the match but was outplayed when Graf's weapons came to the rescue. Up until that point, Graf had been inconsistent and only sporadicly showing her best form, seemingly lacking belief and purpose. Hingis' frustration was visibly growing even before the infamous line call in the 2nd set because she was having to work so hard for points against so fine an athlete. Hingis' angles were running Graf to all corners of the court and exhibting all of her talents, but they were not firing holes in Graf's defences, as it were, and Hingis was clearly impotent to decide the match.

And here i was trying to create a positive thread on Hingis' 10 year anniversary of a complete year of domination.

Steffica - we must have been watching a different match in 1999 because up until that line call it was heading to a straight sets victory to Hingis.

eugreene2
Dec 25th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Wow ... this thread is vastly underrated. Some great stuff in here & I'm not even a Hingis fan!!!

FaileBashere
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:29 PM
And here i was trying to create a positive thread on Hingis' 10 year anniversary of a complete year of domination.

Steffica - we must have been watching a different match in 1999 because up until that line call it was heading to a straight sets victory to Hingis.

Well I hope 2007 will be a good year for Hingis. But with Sharapova and Justine around, I don't think she'll dominate again.
But, ah, yes, 1999. Bad call or not the fact is Hingis was not able to close the match. She served for it, remember, long after that 2nd set fiasco. But no, it wasn't meant to be. It slipped away. No one to blame for that. It just wasn't for her.

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:35 PM
And here i was trying to create a positive thread on Hingis' 10 year anniversary of a complete year of domination.

Steffica - we must have been watching a different match in 1999 because up until that line call it was heading to a straight sets victory to Hingis.

Then I think you need to watch the match again, my love.

Hingis was heading for a straight sets victory AFTER the line call. The line call was when she was leading early in the second set. She then went on to win a series of close-fought games, where she really struggled but won some brilliant points, playing some exquisite tennis. She hit a superb down-the-line backhand winner to lead 5-4 and, as I remember, serve for a straight sets victory. Nobody was saying that the linecall had dented her confidence at that stage.

Whilst serving for the match, at 15-0, as I remember, Hingis and Graf played a point where Martina brought out all of her arsenal, moving Graf from side to side, angle to angle. Steffi covered everything, being the legendary athlete that she was, but finally she was pinned in her backhand corner with Hingis approaching the net. Martina had no other way of ending the point against such a fine athlete on a slow surface; she could not pound baseline winners, and her instinct was never to aim for the lines. Once at the net, Graf hit an electrifying backhand top-spun cross-court pass, which fizzed below Hingis like lightining.

Do you remember Martina's response? Because, I do. It was to hit her head and racket into the net in despair. Despair, that is, that Graf had too much for her when everything was at stake.

By the end of that set, when Graf levelled at a set all, Hingis was thumping her head against the back wall. She knew that to defeat Graf it needed to have been in straight sets before it became a matter of athleticism, power and endurance. As she left the court to change her shirt, she knew she was exhausted and she had nothing left. Within a matter of minutes she was 0-3 down in the final set and it was, to all intents and purposes, all over. Graf smelt blood, and Hingis had had it.

spencercarlos
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:37 PM
We'll never agree over Graf and Seles, but on this we certainly do concur.

I never saw the 1996 U.S Open semi-final, but, having witnessed their French Open final of 1999, with Hingis struggling to outmanouevre Graf, and unable to fire winners, I can quite believe your description.
Oh not again Steffica, and especially when it was Graf who seemed to be the one struggling out there, Hingis was hitting winners from all corners, forehands, backhands, volleys, smash and so on. Graf had her fair share of winners but i was Martina the one dominating the play by pushing Graf to her backhand and attacking of the open forehand corner with some great backhands DTL or approaching to the Graf´s backhand and attack the net.


Graf played a little but of sportsmanship out there at 6-4 2-0 by not pointing out to the missing mark to be checked, that ball was on the line and everybody except the line judge who called the shot wronly and then could not find a mark (obviously). I have seen lots of players like Monica for example on clay pointing out marks to be checked by the umpires. Then remmember how Graf quickly goes and points out the mark at 6-4 2-1 with Hingis serving at 30-0, another shot called wrongly in this time, but it makes you wonder why she did not do that in the previous controversial call. :rolleyes:

Hingis was a kid and handled it very poorly for a fact and with all of this the crowd getting into it, all of this got her, indeed she did not behave like a champion.

Despite as much as i wanted Graf to spank Hingis, really was not Graf´s shotmaking ability the MAIN responsible for this comeback, putting aside the amazing 6-4 5-4 15-15 point where Graf hits probably her best shot ever off her backhand after a very long and tight rally.

Graf´s was not hitting winners left and right to find her way back, the best move tactically wise was to play those dropshots (some of there were outright winners) and to lob her after the dropshot. In fact Graf´s main share of winners came in the early part of the match (first set and half of the second set). Having said that we know that Hingis´s main share of her 43 unforced errors came in the third set, understandable because as the match went on the crowd started to support Graf more and more, and to applaud Hingis´s errors, understanding Martina but not justifying her actions, as i said she did not behave like a champion that´s why she lost.

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:43 PM
Oh not again Steffica, and especially when it was Graf who seemed to be the one struggling out there, Hingis was hitting winners from all corners, forehands, backhands, volleys, smash and so on. Graf had her fair share of winners but i was Martina the one dominating the play by pushing Graf to her backhand and attacking of the open forehand corner with some great backhands DTL or approaching to the Graf´s backhand and attack the net.


Graf played a little but of sportsmanship out there at 6-4 2-0 by not pointing out to the missing mark to be checked, that ball was on the line and everybody except the line judge who called the shot wronly and then could not find a mark (obviously). I have seen lots of players like Monica for example on clay pointing out marks to be checked by the umpires. Then remmember how Graf quickly goes and points out the mark at 6-4 2-1 with Hingis serving at 30-0, another shot called wrongly in this time, but it makes you wonder why she did not do that in the previous controversial call. :rolleyes:

Hingis was a kid and handled it very poorly for a fact and with all of this the crowd getting into it, all of this got her, indeed she did not behave like a champion.

Despite as much as i wanted Graf to spank Hingis, really was not Graf´s shotmaking ability the MAIN responsible for this comeback, putting aside the amazing 6-4 5-4 15-15 point where Graf hits probably her best shot ever off her backhand after a very long and tight rally.

Graf´s was not hitting winners left and right to find her way back, the best move tactically wise was to play those dropshots (some of there were outright winners) and to lob her after the dropshot. In fact Graf´s main share of winners came in the early part of the match (first set and half of the second set). Having said that we know that Hingis´s main share of her 43 unforced errors came in the third set, understandable because as the match went on the crowd started to support Graf more and more, and to applaud Hingis´s errors, understanding Martina but not justifying her actions, as i said she did not behave like a champion that´s why she lost.

I think you've been reading too many newspapers. The journalist spin on it was that Hingis blew it because of her brat-like temper. Such a great story. A little similar to the journalists' construction of the Seles story; that she was denied at least a dozen slams simply because she was stabbed. It's another great story of denial, of contemplation. But any real tennis fan knows that there were so many factors which contributed to Seles' failure to win any other slams after 1996.

The reality, in the 1999 RG final, was that the loss was the same as all of Hingis' other losses. In that sense, it was comparable to her loss to Venus in the 2000 U.S Open semi-final. She had played fine tennis, but when it came to the crunch, she did not possess the weapons to press home her advantage. It was all on Venus' racket at the end.

I'd love to know where you buy your :cool: from. Because, I think you may have been their last customer.

spencercarlos
Dec 25th, 2006, 01:56 PM
I think you've been reading too many newspapers. The journalist spin on it was that Hingis blew it because of her brat-like temper. Such a great story. A little similar to the journalists' construction of the Seles story; that she was denied at least a dozen slams simply because she was stabbed. It's another great story of denial, of contemplation. But any real tennis fan knows that there were so many factors which contributed to Seles' failure to win any other slams after 1996.

The reality, in the 1999 RG final, was that the loss was the same as all of Hingis' other losses. In that sense, it was comparable to her loss to Venus in the 2000 U.S Open semi-final. She had played fine tennis, but when it came to the crunch, she did not possess the weapons to press home her advantage. It was all on Venus' racket at the end.

I'd love to know where you buy your :cool: from. Because, I think you may have been their last customer.
I have the match and seen it many times, i loved Graf´s win, Martina deserved to lose because she was too cocky with her previous year´s comments about Graf implying that she would beat her without having played her and having her resting from her surgery, and of course her terrible behaviuor out there in the final. I just wanted Graf to spank her and show her who had 21 slams at time and more than capable to reign tennis yet again, and she did.

The Usopen 2000 was a very different match, Hingis hit about 10 winners in the match and there it was all Venus who was either hitting a winner or an error in the first shot, especially in the early part of the match and some parts of the third set. Venus went for and did not miss while Martina´s best oportunity to close the match out in that overhead 5-3 15-30 with Venus serving and we know what happened.

But to compare that match to this one is no sense, first the crowd was not a factor, controversial line calls did not take part either, and Martina did not lose the final set because of her huge amount of errors, she was beaten with winners left and right, Graf did not do this, still remained the better player in the end.

And don´t make me go back to the tape and check the numbers to show you that Graf had around 8 winners at most the whole third set, ironically just about the same amount of winners that Hingis had in that set as well.

spencercarlos
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:01 PM
i think the reason hingis didn't turn up to be that 'great' as Steffi as everyone expected to be is because of the sudden change in the game.

Hingis grew up watching Steffi, Seles, Martina N's game.

However when the william sister came, the change the whole aspect of the game and brought in the power game.

we will never see another dominant player like steffi, or martina N cause the new style of game risk more injury. nobody can play healthy for the current style of game.

look at the william sisters, henin, kim, davenport....they get injured so often. maria s at such a young age also suffers from injury.

where as if you see hingis or patty, they rarely get injured. their style of game, although does not generate power, reduces the risk of injury.
Very nice post, i agree!

Ryan
Dec 25th, 2006, 02:31 PM
STFU Greles. God, what a waste of oxygen. Too bad Christmas came already, because I would have changed what I asked for and gotten you a muzzle. :p

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 03:26 PM
STFU Greles. God, what a waste of oxygen. Too bad Christmas came already, because I would have changed what I asked for and gotten you a muzzle. :p

Happy Christmas to you too, Ryan :)

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 03:37 PM
I have the match and seen it many times, i loved Graf´s win, Martina deserved to lose because she was too cocky with her previous year´s comments about Graf implying that she would beat her without having played her and having her resting from her surgery, and of course her terrible behaviuor out there in the final. I just wanted Graf to spank her and show her who had 21 slams at time and more than capable to reign tennis yet again, and she did.

The Usopen 2000 was a very different match, Hingis hit about 10 winners in the match and there it was all Venus who was either hitting a winner or an error in the first shot, especially in the early part of the match and some parts of the third set. Venus went for and did not miss while Martina´s best oportunity to close the match out in that overhead 5-3 15-30 with Venus serving and we know what happened.

But to compare that match to this one is no sense, first the crowd was not a factor, controversial line calls did not take part either, and Martina did not lose the final set because of her huge amount of errors, she was beaten with winners left and right, Graf did not do this, still remained the better player in the end.

And don´t make me go back to the tape and check the numbers to show you that Graf had around 8 winners at most the whole third set, ironically just about the same amount of winners that Hingis had in that set as well.

But the comparison I made was that in both matches Hingis did not have the weapons to press home her advantage. I'm sure I could have chosen many Hingis matches, so you're right that the U.S Open semi-final may have been a random choice.

Graf may not have hit all that many winners in the French Open final -- she knew that she did not need to. She could chase all of Martina's shots and return them with interest. Hingis was the one who needed to hit winners, because she could not cover the court with the same speed. Graf must have forced far more errors from Hingis than vice versa.

Hingis' mentality in that match was a result of what was happening on the court. Hingis' behaviour did NOT influence her play; as I've already shown, she served for the match and played some great tennis in closely-fought games long after the line call. And besides, she was starting to overboil before the line call, slamming rackets, screaming and grimacing. This was no Novotna-style choke.

Hingis knew that the match was a ticking time bomb. She had to close it out in straight sets while Graf was not playing with purpose and confidence, otherwise it would slip away from her. Graf was wearing her down, and by the 3rd set that eventuated, Hingis was clearly fatigued. That was why the call mattered so much. Why else would she have made such a fuss at such an unimportant stage when she was already leading?

As it was, Graf found her best form and sustained it just in the nick of time. And Hingis could not reply.

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 03:42 PM
And, for the record, I was supporting Hingis in that match. I only admired Graf grudgingly while she played. I was always rooting for her opponents.

It is only in retrospect that I've respected her so much.

tennismaster8820
Dec 25th, 2006, 03:53 PM
But the comparison I made was that in both matches Hingis did not have the weapons to press home her advantage. I'm sure I could have chosen many Hingis matches, so you're right that the U.S Open semi-final may have been a random choice.

Graf may not have hit all that many winners in the French Open final -- she knew that she did not need to. She could chase all of Martina's shots and return them with interest. Hingis was the one who needed to hit winners, because she could not cover the court with the same speed. Graf must have forced far more errors from Hingis than vice versa.

Hingis' mentality in that match was a result of what was happening on the court. Hingis' behaviour did NOT influence her play; as I've already shown, she served for the match and played some great tennis in closely-fought games long after the line call. And besides, she was starting to overboil before the line call, slamming rackets, screaming and grimacing. This was no Novotna-style choke.

Hingis knew that the match was a ticking time bomb. She had to close it out in straight sets while Graf was not playing with purpose and confidence, otherwise it would slip away from her. Graf was wearing her down, and by the 3rd set that eventuated, Hingis was clearly fatigued. That was why the call mattered so much. Why else would she have made such a fuss at such an unimportant stage when she was already leading?

As it was, Graf found her best form and sustained it just in the nick of time. And Hingis could not reply.

I don't agree! Hingis blew it against Graf, she wasn't cool enough! She started to play differently, not after that argument, but when the whole crowd turned against her! That match left a big scar on her game in the future and she was never the same in the deciding moments (AO - Capriati, V.Williams - US Open)!

LDVTennis
Dec 25th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Hingis was hitting winners from all corners, forehands, backhands, volleys, smash and so on. Graf had her fair share of winners but i was Martina the one dominating the play by pushing Graf to her backhand and attacking of the open forehand corner with some great backhands DTL or approaching to the Grafīs backhand and attack the net.

Graf played a little but of sportsmanship out there at 6-4 2-0 by not pointing out to the missing mark to be checked.

Grafīs was not hitting winners left and right to find her way back, the best move tactically wise was to play those dropshots (some of there were outright winners) and to lob her after the dropshot. In fact Grafīs main share of winners came in the early part of the match (first set and half of the second set). Having said that we know that Hingisīs main share of her 43 unforced errors came in the third set, understandable because as the match went on the crowd started to support Graf more and more, and to applaud Hingisīs errors, understanding Martina but not justifying her actions, as i said she did not behave like a champion thatīs why she lost.

Revisionist History!

Count the number of points Hingis won in the first set from slice backhands that Steffi meekly dumped into the net. That was the difference in the first set, not all these winners you remember Hingis hitting.

But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you are right and that it was Hingis who was dominating play by hitting winners with every stroke imaginable. So, what happened to all those strokes when she served for the match at 5-4 in the second? Why at the most crucial moment of the match did her spectacular serve, backhand, forehand, transition game, and net game let her down? Great shots and the ability to hit them at crucial moments just don't vanish. So, either Hingis never had most of these great shots or all of them abandoned her at the most crucial moment of the match?

For the sake of argument again, let's give Hingis the benefit of the doubt and pursue the possibility that all of her great shots abandoned her at the most crucial moment of the match. Just how often has this happened to her? Has this been a one-time occurrence? If this had been the first and only time all her spectacular shots had abandoned her, perhaps, we would not have cause to question the existence of all her spectacular shots. But, it isn't the first time, is it?

It is at times like this that I am reminded of something that Billy Jean King once said. One day during HBO Sports coverage of Wimbledon in the mid-90's, Barry MacKay asked her, What makes the difference in crucial moments of a match? Billy remarked that if one has bad technique or bad footwork/preparation that at the crucial moments in matches those flaws are magnified. In her opinion, that is why you can tell who has really great shots and who doesn't. Those with great shots can produce them for winners when the chips are at stake. Those who can't never had them.

Which brings us back to Hingis, doesn't it? As Steffica has already tried to argue, the '99 FO Final was a physical struggle for both players. Clearly, Hingis was the one more exhausted by the end of the second set. She'd never been up to that point much of an athlete. As Hingis began to tire, her ability to take the extra step to set up for shots diminished. Commenting for NBC Sports, both Chris Evert and John McEnroe point this out towards the later end of the second set. That is why she lost the ability to hit her down the line backhand.

As for the rest, it is ridiculous to suggest that Graf knew where the mark was on that disputed line call at 6-4, 2-0. How would you know anyways? On that very day, where you the one closest to the line? Do you have the ability to read minds? Or, are you basing this on Graf's long history of gamesmanship? As if? Steffi was never one to try to influence the outcome of matches except with her racquet. She didn't need to! When the chips where down, Steffi could just rely on her great shots to win matches. And, they were great because they never seemed to abandon her when she often found herself at 5-4 and serving for a major trophy.

LDVTennis
Dec 25th, 2006, 04:51 PM
And donīt make me go back to the tape and check the numbers to show you that Graf had around 8 winners at most the whole third set, ironically just about the same amount of winners that Hingis had in that set as well.

And, what would be the point of that? Boy, you've got so much to learn about this game.

How matches like the one that Federer won against Roddick in the Masters Series Final must perplex you?

It is about time that you figured out that what matches like that show is that the great players distinguish themselves particularly at those times when they are down a set and just trying to stay even in a match. Moreover, they often distinguish themselves by being forced by their opponent to hit a great shot.

Of course, it doesn't really matter in the end just how many of those shots they hit versus their competitor. All that matters is that somehow they managed to come up with that shot when they were on the verge of defeat.

hingisGOAT
Dec 25th, 2006, 04:56 PM
wait a minute... if hingis lost that roland garros final...


...why are graf fans so bitter? :confused:


maybe because, years later, no one gives a fuck about steffi... for that match, people still talk about hingis' shots, behavior, line calls, mom, smile, fitness etc. that match really was all hingis :yeah:

spencercarlos
Dec 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Revisionist History!

Count the number of points Hingis won in the first set from slice backhands that Steffi meekly dumped into the net. That was the difference in the first set, not all these winners you remember Hingis hitting.

But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you are right and that it was Hingis who was dominating play by hitting winners with every stroke imaginable
I did not mean to say that Hingis was hitting winners left and right, because that was not true. The point is that contrary to what Steffica was saying that it was not in Hingisīs racket, and that it was similar to Venus vs Hingis Usopen 2000, etc Hingis vs Graf was able to hit a lot of winners, in fact she made 36 winners in this final, not a counterpart with the around 10 winners made by Martina at the Usopen 2000 semifinal.

So, what happened to all those strokes when she served for the match at 5-4 in the second? Why at the most crucial moment of the match did her spectacular serve, backhand, forehand, transition game, and net game let her down? Great shots and the ability to hit them at crucial moments just don't vanish. So, either Hingis never had most of these great shots or all of them abandoned her at the most crucial moment of the match?
I think itīs really hard to overlook to what happened in the second set, already talked about it some posts ago. Still the fact that Martina could not put that call aside, and behaved poorly from that point on until the end, does not really erase the fact that Hingis had all the reason to dispute a call on clay court, and she got robbed by the umpire, and by Steffi in a way, because she never pointed out to the mark and left the line judge choose on a different mark, or even ack that Hingisīs shot was indeed in as it was.
And then just a few points later to watch Graf hit a forehand passing shot long, and then point out to the mark looking for an overrule, yeah i imagine being in that position and it would have affected me tremendously.

Having said that you know how much the mind can affect the way you play, you as Navratilova and Novotna (i think) follower you should know.
As the match went on from that point Hingis was beaten more and more by the situation, Graf started to play better, Hingis started to make some errors and not stick to her original strategy, and the crowd went wild against Martina.


Which brings us back to Hingis, doesn't it? As Steffica has already tried to argue, the '99 FO Final was a physical struggle for both players. Clearly, Hingis was the one more exhausted by the end of the second set. She'd never been up to that point much of an athlete. As Hingis began to tire, her ability to take the extra step to set up for shots diminished. Commenting for NBC Sports, both Chris Evert and John McEnroe point this out towards the later end of the second set. That is why she lost the ability to hit her down the line backhand.
Hingis was spent more mentally than phisically after the second set. There were many reasons for her to crumble, and she did. Great champions does not let this kind of things affect them, and in fact some of them battled them and often times end up winning despite the adversity.


As for the rest, it is ridiculous to suggest that Graf knew where the mark was on that disputed line call at 6-4, 2-0. How would you know anyways? On that very day, where you the one closest to the line? Do you have the ability to read minds? Or, are you basing this on Graf's long history of gamesmanship? As if? Steffi was never one to try to influence the outcome of matches except with her racquet. She didn't need to! When the chips where down, Steffi could just rely on her great shots to win matches. And, they were great because they never seemed to abandon her when she often found herself at 5-4 and serving for a major trophy.
Oh please donīt start this ridiculous argument that Graf did not see where a shot from her oponnent landed on a clay court :rolleyes: even if you try to believe that, you know that is not true. Would be mens tennis the talk here, ok i would give the benefit of the doubt, but not this in case :tape:

FaileBashere
Dec 25th, 2006, 05:19 PM
wait a minute... if hingis lost that roland garros final...


...why are graf fans so bitter? :confused:

Don't be confused. We're not the ones who are bitter. How many Steffi fans here resort to bashing other playes when we can discuss Steffi's greatness in details? Not too many, comparatively.


maybe because, years later, no one gives a fuck about steffi...

Now, here, you couldn't be more wrong

for that match, people still talk about hingis' shots, behavior, line calls, mom, smile, fitness etc. that match really was all hingis :yeah:

Yeah, and that's something every fan of hers can be proud of

hingisGOAT
Dec 25th, 2006, 05:34 PM
Don't be confused. We're not the ones who are bitter. How many Steffi fans here resort to bashing other playes when we can discuss Steffi's greatness in details?

i'm counting a few in this thread :wavey: a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with graf, btw :yawn:

Martian KC
Dec 25th, 2006, 08:39 PM
i'm counting a few in this thread :wavey: a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with graf, btw :yawn:


Touche!:lol: It was all in Marti's hands and that bitch ann-lassure's apparently.:rolleyes:

Kart
Dec 25th, 2006, 10:11 PM
I never saw the 1996 U.S Open semi-final, but, having witnessed their French Open final of 1999, with Hingis struggling to outmanouevre Graf, and unable to fire winners, I can quite believe your description.


Perhaps you ought to watch the 1996 semi before extrapolating to that conclusion.

Steffi had already lost to Martina once that year and in spite of the easy first set in their Wimbledon meeting it was a testament to how seriously Graf took her opponent's ability the way she looked when she came through their fourth round encounter.

However anyone wants to spin their 1996 SF it was far from a classic Steffi demolition and there were not many players around that could rattle Steffi.

As for the French open 1999, much as I cheered Steffi and loved watching her win - Martina let Steffi off the hook as much as Steffi rose up to get herself off it.

Hingie
Dec 25th, 2006, 10:13 PM
Geesh - why is it so hard for Graf fans to realise that Hingis made the 'legendary all-conquering my crap don't stink' Graf look quite ordinary for most of that final.

Steffica Greles
Dec 25th, 2006, 10:16 PM
Perhaps you ought to watch the 1996 semi before extrapolating to that conclusion.



Unless it was a different Martina, then I'd say that it is a fairily safe extrapolation to make that a 15 year-old Hingis encountered the same problems against Graf that she did in the 199 RG final.

As for the rest, well, suffice to say that I just don't interpret their matches in that way.

:)

Kart
Dec 25th, 2006, 10:22 PM
^ Ok.

LDVTennis
Dec 26th, 2006, 05:58 AM
Perhaps you ought to watch the 1996 semi before extrapolating to that conclusion.

Steffi had already lost to Martina once that year and in spite of the easy first set in their Wimbledon meeting it was a testament to how seriously Graf took her opponent's ability the way she looked when she came through their fourth round encounter.

However anyone wants to spin their 1996 SF it was far from a classic Steffi demolition and there were not many players around that could rattle Steffi.

As for the French open 1999, much as I cheered Steffi and loved watching her win - Martina let Steffi off the hook as much as Steffi rose up to get herself off it.

Why? Watching the match shouldn't change the conclusion.

On the other hand, perhaps, you should review Steffi's record that year before you draw any conclusions about how seriously Steffi took Hingis.

In 1996, Steffi began the year rather late. I think she was rehabilitating from surgery to remove bone chips from her foot.

Her first tournament was IW. She won it. Her second tournament was Miami. She won it.

She waited to play her first clay court tournament until May, the Italian Open. She came into the tournament playing with a new type of racquet. As it is, she won the first set of her quarterfinal against Hingis, though eventually she lost in three.

That loss hardly stunted Graf as she would go on to win both the German and French Opens.

She would next meet Hingis in the Wimbledon R16. Though Graf played erratically for much of the match, she won 6-1, 6-4.

I have that match on tape. Graf's expression at the end of the match hardly suggests that she thought Hingis was a real threat. If you want to see how Graf acts when she thinks that she has played well against a player who might threaten her, watch the end of the '96 Wimbledon Quarterfinal vs. Novotna. Steffi couldn't be more visibly proud at the way she played. She nods her head once she reaches her chair and smiles broadly at the friend's box and everything.

Truth be told, Graf never took Hingis very seriously. That may be the reason why on a couple of occasions she lost to Hingis and why on a couple of other occasions the match turned out to be more difficult than it should have been.

Was Steffi mistaken? Well, stop for a moment and think about what Steffi might have thought about Hingis' game. Hingis couldn't hurt Steffi with her serve. She couldn't hurt Steffi by hitting forehands out of nowhere for winners. As for that down the line backhand, it turns out that it was never the difference maker in any of their matches, all the hype about it notwithstanding.

By the '99 FO, Steffi had also probably noted that Hingis was not a spectacular physical or athletic specimen. Hingis may have been quite excellent at anticipating the play, but she did not have much recovery speed when the play got away from her. Moreover, if Steffi hadn't figured this out already, Gunthardt her coach would have most definitely pointed it out, Hingis' basic strategem has always been to move the ball around the court --- deep, side-to-side, short and wide, until she can get her opponent out of position and open up the court for a high percentage shot/winner. Against players with superior court coverage skills and shots that can operate in all areas of the court this strategy rarely works. Steffi was just that kind of player.

Graf knew that. But, when she wasn't as sharp as she needed to be, that knowledge could sometimes get Steffi in trouble. Of course, because Steffi knew this, it was quite easy for her to believe, no matter the score, that she could come back on Hingis. In that sense, it was both a blessing and a curse for Steffi that she never really took Hingis seriously.

Apoorv
Dec 26th, 2006, 07:02 AM
Hingis had a great year in 97. i would like hingis to have that confidence back coz this confidence it the main weapon that she has. if you want to confuse your opponent with angles and variety you need to feel very confident about it.

this thread is about hingis and not about steffi. anyways being a graf fan i would like to compare steffi to seles and navratilova. not to martina hingis.

Hingie
Dec 26th, 2006, 07:49 AM
Hingis had a great year in 97. i would like hingis to have that confidence back coz this confidence it the main weapon that she has. if you want to confuse your opponent with angles and variety you need to feel very confident about it.

this thread is about hingis and not about steffi. anyways being a graf fan i would like to compare steffi to seles and navratilova. not to martina hingis.

You are right - this is about Hingis' year in 1997.

And to LDV's last post - does the word 'stalker' mean anything to you. :scared:

MikeJones
Dec 26th, 2006, 08:06 AM
can't believe its already 10 years,i grew up with Marti!

Me too I remember being 11 or so when I first saw her and being blown away by her talent+beauty.

Time goes so quick!

Kart
Dec 26th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Why? Watching the match shouldn't change the conclusion.

On the other hand, perhaps, you should review Steffi's record that year before you draw any conclusions about how seriously Steffi took Hingis.

In 1996, Steffi began the year rather late. I think she was rehabilitating from surgery to remove bone chips from her foot.

Her first tournament was IW. She won it. Her second tournament was Miami. She won it.

She waited to play her first clay court tournament until May, the Italian Open. She came into the tournament playing with a new type of racquet. As it is, she won the first set of her quarterfinal against Hingis, though eventually she lost in three.

That loss hardly stunted Graf as she would go on to win both the German and French Opens.

She would next meet Hingis in the Wimbledon R16. Though Graf played erratically for much of the match, she won 6-1, 6-4.

I have that match on tape. Graf's expression at the end of the match hardly suggests that she thought Hingis was a real threat. If you want to see how Graf acts when she thinks that she has played well against a player who might threaten her, watch the end of the '96 Wimbledon Quarterfinal vs. Novotna. Steffi couldn't be more visibly proud at the way she played. She nods her head once she reaches her chair and smiles broadly at the friend's box and everything.

Truth be told, Graf never took Hingis very seriously. That may be the reason why on a couple of occasions she lost to Hingis and why on a couple of other occasions the match turned out to be more difficult than it should have been.

Was Steffi mistaken? Well, stop for a moment and think about what Steffi might have thought about Hingis' game. Hingis couldn't hurt Steffi with her serve. She couldn't hurt Steffi by hitting forehands out of nowhere for winners. As for that down the line backhand, it turns out that it was never the difference maker in any of their matches, all the hype about it notwithstanding.

By the '99 FO, Steffi had also probably noted that Hingis was not a spectacular physical or athletic specimen. Hingis may have been quite excellent at anticipating the play, but she did not have much recovery speed when the play got away from her. Moreover, if Steffi hadn't figured this out already, Gunthardt her coach would have most definitely pointed it out, Hingis' basic strategem has always been to move the ball around the court --- deep, side-to-side, short and wide, until she can get her opponent out of position and open up the court for a high percentage shot/winner. Against players with superior court coverage skills and shots that can operate in all areas of the court this strategy rarely works. Steffi was just that kind of player.

Graf knew that. But, when she wasn't as sharp as she needed to be, that knowledge could sometimes get Steffi in trouble. Of course, because Steffi knew this, it was quite easy for her to believe, no matter the score, that she could come back on Hingis. In that sense, it was both a blessing and a curse for Steffi that she never really took Hingis seriously.

I'm well aware of Steffi's record in 1996 thank you.

I am also aware that discussing any Graf related topic with you is a pointless exercise for both of us so let's not waste each other's time.

morningglory
Dec 26th, 2006, 12:25 PM
Wow this thread is like an archeological dig :lol: :p
Steffi fans Vs Martians, are we still in the 20th century?

btw the 98 RG final, I think both players deserved it, but Martina was young I guess and didn't really know what to do to keep focus

pooh14
Dec 26th, 2006, 01:09 PM
why do we always need to compare players?

The thread was started initially for remembering good memories for Hingis's fan.

Why bring Graf in and compare?

Graf, Martina N, Chriss Everet are the biggest females players of all time, you cannot compare them with others.

Martina Hingis is in total another league. It is maybe fair to associate Hingis with Justine, Serena, Lindsay.....but all these players cannot be compared to Graf and Martina N.

They are in different generation, the game has totally change since then.

hingis2002cn
Dec 26th, 2006, 03:09 PM
why do we always need to compare players?

The thread was started initially for remembering good memories for Hingis's fan.

Why bring Graf in and compare?

Graf, Martina N, Chriss Everet are the biggest females players of all time, you cannot compare them with others.

Martina Hingis is in total another league. It is maybe fair to associate Hingis with Justine, Serena, Lindsay.....but all these players cannot be compared to Graf and Martina N.

They are in different generation, the game has totally change since then.


Yes, you have said what I want to say. The thread was started initially for remembering good memories for Hingis's fan.

And please do not compare Hingis with Graf.
Thanks to Graf's fans.:o

thelittlestelf
Dec 26th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Wow, I can't believe that was 10 years ago!

Martina :worship:

hingis2002cn
Dec 27th, 2006, 12:53 AM
Time is so fast!

go hingis
Dec 27th, 2006, 03:57 AM
Enjoyed reading the first post. I hope Martina puts the work in and if she believes she will achieve greatness in 2007! Kick ASS Martina!

cartmancop
Dec 27th, 2006, 04:11 AM
I hope she gets the AO... or the French :) I'd love for her to get that one at least once, she had some tough luck there in the past...

Polikarpov
Dec 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Anne Lassere-Ulrich...:fiery:

She went down at least three times without knowing where the marks were...:worship:

Actually, the 99 RG Final is the first tennis match I've watched. This is the one that made me follow the sport.

I didn't know who Hingis or Graf at that time.

I rooted for Hingis that time because I found her cute.

After, the match I found myself being a fan because she was so animated and exciting to watch.

Good luck Martina! Win RG!

By the way, I think comparing players from different generations doesn't make sense.

AlwaysGraf
Dec 27th, 2006, 07:05 PM
what a lovely troll :wavey: hingis would topple graf on her own terms in tokyo a few years later -- and the entire '99 RG final was on hingis' racquet -- graf was nothing more than a bystander from start to finish; the fortunate benificiary of a bad umpire, classless crowd, and her very own unsportsmanlike silence

that's one graf hingis match that i remember watching, and if im correct in remembering steffi couldnt move when she had a lead in the final set-did she not get cramp i think-and please i am not one for making excuses-but that was not on hingis' own terms

SelesFan70
Dec 27th, 2006, 09:13 PM
Hingis' win over Monica at the 1997 French was a great match. It could have gone either way. Great play from both ladies. I gave Majoli NO chance to win, but she did. :D

I would love to see Martina win another Major. If she does, it'll be in Australia or remotely possibly Roland Garros.