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Infiniti2001
Nov 27th, 2006, 11:37 PM
LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Black leaders on Monday challenged the entertainment industry, including rappers, to stop use of the racial slur that Michael Richards uttered in his tirade.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson and others said they will meet with TV networks, film companies and musicians to discuss the "n-word."

"We want to give our ancestors a present," Jackson said at a news conference. "Dignity over degradation."

Jackson also asked the public not to buy a DVD box set of the seventh season of the TV show "Seinfeld" that was released last week.

Richards, who played the wacky neighbor Kramer on "Seinfeld," triggered outrage with a November 17 racial rant against two black men when he was heckled during a stand-up comedy routine at the Laugh Factory nightclub in West Hollywood. A patron recorded the outburst with a video camera phone.

Richards has made several apologies, including one Sunday on Jackson's syndicated radio program, in which he has said he is not a racist and was motivated by anger. (Watch Richards on the radio show -- 2:45 Video)

At the press conference, comedian Paul Mooney said he has used the "n-word" numerous times during stand-up performances but will no longer do so after watching Richards' rant.

"He's my Dr. Phil," the black comedian said. "He's cured me." (Watch Mooney say why he's done with the word -- 6:31 Video)

Asked about free-speech issues, Jackson said the word is "unprotected."

U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-California, charged that only situations such as the Richards incident turn mainstream media attention to issues involving the black community.

"This is not simply about whether or not the black community forgives or forgets, this is about understanding that this is pervasive, that this happens in all of our institutions, one way or the other," Waters said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/27/michaelrichards.ap/index.html

Denise4925
Nov 27th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Good. I hate that word. It's used so much, that a lot of the kids are desensitized to it.

Rocketta
Nov 27th, 2006, 11:54 PM
besides Maxine Waters when is that report going to quote the 'Black leaders'? :confused:

I'm beyond tired of the media running to Jessie 'I's got kids out of wedlock' Jackson and Al 'My perm is tight' Sharpeton like people are listening to them? How about asking Obama, or some leaders in the rap industry....that's the only way they will change the tide is to get the people that are actually respected by that community talking about it.

The only way they'll get the music industry to stop pushing this type of music is shame/negative media attention/and possible boycott of all the music from record companies that are pumping this stuff out. They need to put pressure on MTV/VH1/BET to not show any videos of artist who continue to glorify that word even if the videos have been cleaned up kids will seek out the explicit copy anyway.

It basically will have to be a movement like the one to end Aparthied...asking for people to divest their money from these companies, imo.

kiwifan
Nov 27th, 2006, 11:57 PM
I hope y'all know Paul Mooney is joking. :haha:

Joking or Lying. :p

Words are words, they have their consequenses and that is the remedy.

KKKramer spoke, KKKramer is shunned.

No word should be banned. If the PC Left can get this banned, think of the words the Reactionary Right would love to have banned based on the precedent. :shurg:

More speech, please. :lol:

mirzalover
Nov 27th, 2006, 11:59 PM
i would love for that to happen but it wont

Rocketta
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:00 AM
I hope y'all know Paul Mooney is joking. :haha:

Joking or Lying. :p

Words are words, they have their consequenses and that is the remedy.

KKKramer spoke, KKKramer is shunned.

No word should be banned. If the PC Left can get this banned, think of the words the Reactionary Right would love to have banned based on the precedent. :shurg:

More speech, please. :lol:

I don't think the word should be banned but it's quite evident that the music industry is fostering this fake 'street' cred for their rappers. Rap is no longer about expressing the life you've lived but about fakin' da funk. I have/had no problem with NWA using the word because it was a way to express the truth of their lives....now it's just marketing. :(

kiwifan
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:03 AM
I don't think the word should be banned but it's quite evident that the music industry is fostering this fake 'street' cred for their rappers. Rap is no longer about expressing the life you've lived and about fakin' da funk. I have/had no problem with NWA using the word because it was a way to express the truth of their lives....now it's just marketing. :(:eek:

Hey have you been reading my latest screenplay. :scratch:

You need to stop making that point, in public, until I can sell this thing. :devil:

*JR*
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:21 AM
No word should be banned. If the PC Left can get this banned, think of the words the Reactionary Right would love to have banned
You very well know that such "slippery slope" arguments are :bs: (Otherwise the right to own guns would include machine guns, rocket launchers, etc.) If you want to defend the cultural use of the N word, please do. But not based on a silly "if A occurs, then B will" construct.

IceSkaTennisFan
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:28 AM
Somewhere I read that there would be a black boycott on Seinfeld, but I didn't know how realistic that would be considering black people don't watch Seinfeld anyway :tape:

I'm part black and I'm glad to see the black community making a stand against words of degredation. I wish this would be part of a larger effort to denounce the use of minority degredation, not just blacks. It's a start, I guess. While I like both causes, I also care about the 1st Amendment, so I can see both sides.

RVD
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:29 AM
I don't think the word should be banned but it's quite evident that the music industry is fostering this fake 'street' cred for their rappers. Rap is no longer about expressing the life you've lived but about fakin' da funk. I have/had no problem with NWA using the word because it was a way to express the truth of their lives....now it's just marketing. :(:worship: Rocky you are reading my mind today. :wavey:

AND...
I'm hoping that it puts most of these 'posers' out of business. :tape: :bounce:

Sam L
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:33 AM
Somewhere I read that there would be a black boycott on Seinfeld, but I didn't know how realistic that would be considering black people don't watch Seinfeld :tape:

:haha:

Anyway, seriously they need to preach to their own people. 99% of the time you find the use of the word in rap music. :rolleyes:

RVD
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:33 AM
Somewhere I read that there would be a black boycott on Seinfeld, but I didn't know how realistic that would be considering black people don't watch Seinfeld :tape::lol: You'd be surprised. :tape:
At any rate, what about that 7th season some would purchase for their white friends. :haha: Hell, that alone would account for millions. :lol:
Okay, I embellished. More likely a few hundred dollars worth. :tape:

RVD
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:34 AM
:haha:

Anyway, seriously they need to preach to their own people. 99% of the time you find the use of the word in rap music. :rolleyes:So what word are you willing to give up. :hehehe:

mykarma
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:44 AM
:haha:

Anyway, seriously they need to preach to their own people. 99% of the time you find the use of the word in rap music. :rolleyes:
You're right becasus it certainly wouldn't do any good to try and preach it to you. :rolleyes:

Rocketta
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:45 AM
:eek:

Hey have you been reading my latest screenplay. :scratch:

You need to stop making that point, in public, until I can sell this thing. :devil:

:worship: Rocky you are reading my mind today. :wavey:

AND...
I'm hoping that it puts most of these 'posers' out of business. :tape: :bounce:


I do come up with a coherent thought once and awhile! :o

Rocketta
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:48 AM
:haha:

Anyway, seriously they need to preach to their own people. 99% of the time you find the use of the word in rap music. :rolleyes:

so what you're saying is that you don't actually read the threads...that you just come in to troll? Clearly had you read the thread you would've noticed that it is about black people using the word or is it that you are just :cuckoo: to have figured that out on your own? :rolleyes:

No Name Face
Nov 28th, 2006, 12:55 AM
i totally agree. end it.

lizchris
Nov 28th, 2006, 01:10 AM
This is good in theory, but it is like trying to put the shit back in the horse. The use of this word is so prevelant in our socitey, how are you going to stop it now.?

iPatty
Nov 28th, 2006, 01:18 AM
Question.

Would this apply to (black) rappers as well?

In my opinion, more black rappers use the "n-word" in their music than in any other form of entertainment. I know plenty of black kids at school who find it perfectly acceptable to walk around and shout the "n-word" at each other. I guess this should be in the "ask black people anything" thread but...

Do black people find it acceptable when a fellow black person calls them the "n-word"?

Honestly, I want them to do away with the word, because it's just vulgar and unneccessary. But I don't think that's going to happen.

lizchris
Nov 28th, 2006, 01:28 AM
Question.

Would this apply to (black) rappers as well?

In my opinion, more black rappers use the "n-word" in their music than in any other form of entertainment. I know plenty of black kids at school who find it perfectly acceptable to walk around and shout the "n-word" at each other. I guess this should be in the "ask black people anything" thread but...

Do black people find it acceptable when a fellow black person calls them the "n-word"?

Honestly, I want them to do away with the word, because it's just vulgar and unneccessary. But I don't think that's going to happen.

I think it applies to everybody and I am black and do not like anyone calling me the n-word, regardless of their color.

Wannabeknowitall
Nov 28th, 2006, 01:31 AM
The only way they'll get the music industry to stop pushing this type of music is shame/negative media attention/and possible boycott of all the music from record companies that are pumping this stuff out. They need to put pressure on MTV/VH1/BET to not show any videos of artist who continue to glorify that word even if the videos have been cleaned up kids will seek out the explicit copy anyway.

It basically will have to be a movement like the one to end Aparthied...asking for people to divest their money from these companies, imo.

I agree.
I looked at The Game on Wendy Williams last night talking about the East Coast should get back to the art of making entertaining music.
I was dumbfounded.
How about 90% of the hip-hop and rap get back to making entertaining music.
Some of these rappers are geniuses.
You're telling me they can't go a couple of songs without using the N word? :help:
It should be barred entirely including in explicit content versions of an album.

I've been boycotting 50 Cent and Kanye West for a while now.
I won't punish every artist at the recording companies that happen to use the N word because specific artist at that company might not use it themselves.
It's not fair to punish them if they're upcoming artist and who are just trying to make a career with creativeness.

ampers&
Nov 28th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Are we talking about the word "nigga" or "******?"
Because, as some of you know, people think there's a big difference in those words and the connotations that come along with them. It seems like some are you are talking about the use of the word "******." But I rarely hear that. I hear rappers and other people use the term "nigga." :scratch:

Anyway, false hope compels the "black leaders" because it just isn't going to happen. So many young people use "nigga" and it's been entrenched in our language and the ways a lot of us communicate with each other. :shrug: I didn't say "nigga" that much at all, but I find myself using it more and more often because I hear it when I converse with people my age.

Oh, and Paul Mooney not using the n-word would be a tragedy. :awww:
He uses it all the damn time and I think the ways in which he uses the word (in context with his comedy) are brilliant. I hope he's joking. :unsure:

RVD
Nov 28th, 2006, 03:05 AM
Are we talking about the word "nigga" or "******?"
Because, as some of you know, people think there's a big difference in those words and the connotations that come along with them. It seems like some are you are talking about the use of the word "******." But I rarely hear that. I hear rappers and other people use the term "nigga." :scratch:

Anyway, false hope compels the "black leaders" because it just isn't going to happen. So many young people use "nigga" and it's been entrenched in our language and the ways a lot of us communicate with each other. :shrug: I didn't say "nigga" that much at all, but I find myself using it more and more often because I hear it when I converse with people my age.

Oh, and Paul Mooney not using the n-word would be a tragedy. :awww:
He uses it all the damn time and I think the ways in which he uses the word (in context with his comedy) are brilliant. I hope he's joking. :unsure:Good point.
I don't believe that anyone is truly serious about not using 'nigga'. There's far too much money wrapped up in the rap vernacular for either whites or blacks to just toss it over.

Now the word '******' is a different matter altogether. However, I can't imagine Webster striking the word from it's archives either.
It's a silly proposal all the way around really. But again, this is what I mean when I ask where are all our black leaders. A proposal such as this one just seems so embarrassing to its very core.

Incidentally, my son and I play with the word 'nigga' all the time. Just watch the BOONDOCK DVDs, and you'll quickly understand why. :haha:

Veritas
Nov 28th, 2006, 03:33 AM
I hope y'all know Paul Mooney is joking. :haha:

Joking or Lying. :p

Words are words, they have their consequenses and that is the remedy.

KKKramer spoke, KKKramer is shunned.

No word should be banned. If the PC Left can get this banned, think of the words the Reactionary Right would love to have banned based on the precedent. :shurg:

More speech, please. :lol:

I see what you mean. Trends last for only so long and if restrictions are to be placed, some might eventually get tired of it and start to go in the opposite direction. It wasn't that long ago when the word "shit" was considered taboo in Australia, yet we're hearing it on breakfast radio these days :tape:

But point is, there should be an in-between: don't ban the word outright from the media, but make sure they're used in appropriate contexts. For example, I'd object to rappers spouting the word in videos with scantily-clad bikini babes, but it'd be understandable in movies portraying pre-Civil Rights America.

And while the campaign's at it, maybe they should think about putting a limit to it on everyday situations. IMO, it should be taboo across all over, including the AA community as well. If it's the history behind the word that's at stake, then everyone should do their bit to be careful of it. I can't even count how many times I cringe when I see white rappers using the word for the sake of street cred :tape:

By the looks of things these days, the "n-word" is dangerously close to becoming a trend when it should remain a taboo.

Veritas
Nov 28th, 2006, 03:39 AM
This is good in theory, but it is like trying to put the shit back in the horse. The use of this word is so prevelant in our socitey, how are you going to stop it now.?

Maybe put legal restrictions on its use in pop media?

Of course there's the "freedom of speech" issue, but there are other "freedoms" that have been curtailed in the U.S., I'm sure it won't be too hard to make it happen.

There's no denying that a big reason why social attitudes change is due in large part to how newspapers and prime-time TV present their materials. Limiting what's in music videos for example might not make much difference, but at least it's a start.

kiwifan
Nov 28th, 2006, 04:05 AM
I see what you mean. Trends last for only so long and if restrictions are to be placed, some might eventually get tired of it and start to go in the opposite direction. It wasn't that long ago when the word "shit" was considered taboo in Australia, yet we're hearing it on breakfast radio these days :tape:

But point is, there should be an in-between: don't ban the word outright from the media, but make sure they're used in appropriate contexts. For example, I'd object to rappers spouting the word in videos with scantily-clad bikini babes, but it'd be understandable in movies portraying pre-Civil Rights America.

And while the campaign's at it, maybe they should think about putting a limit to it on everyday situations. IMO, it should be taboo across all over, including the AA community as well. If it's the history behind the word that's at stake, then everyone should do their bit to be careful of it. I can't even count how many times I cringe when I see white rappers using the word for the sake of street cred :tape:

By the looks of things these days, the "n-word" is dangerously close to becoming a trend when it should remain a taboo.

Good analysis. :cool: Nice when someone doesn't use oranges when we're discussing apples. :p

Clearly banning it would be bad for say a movie on racism but good for say actual racism.

I just think, its not the legal system's role to draw the line that determines when its good speech and when its bad because without fail the line will be drawn in the wrong place...its society's job to sort out the good and the bad and society's punishment for KKKramer is just - "public scorn and public apology, and a promise to never do it again" :tape:.

Even in this thread most posters would draw "the line" in different places. Obviously I wouldn't draw a line at all since I'm much more fearful of the guy who knows how to promote his racist agenda while appearing race neutral than I am the skinhead with whitepower tattooed on his forehead. ;)

Banning the word would help the unsophisticated racists more than it would me. :p

As mentioned before, I also like the distinction between its use by NWA vs. fake clowns on the NWA bandwagon and trying to make money. "Fuck Tha Police" wasn't popular speech (by majority society - or the FBI's - standards) but it was protected political speech wrt police abuse of minorities. Now if there's a rule against the N word, the Right Wing can use that rule to suppress the political portion of that speech.

Sure you can do that song without using the N word and you can complain about police brutality without even making a rap at all...

...but the combination of the rap, the image, the music, the twist on the racist word and the political speech made "the statement". :cool:

And I wouldn't have it any other way. :angel:

Denise4925
Nov 28th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Good analysis. :cool: Nice when someone doesn't use oranges when we're discussing apples. :p

Clearly banning it would be bad for say a movie on racism but good for say actual racism.

I just think, its not the legal system's role to draw the line that determines when its good speech and when its bad because without fail the line will be drawn in the wrong place...its society's job to sort out the good and the bad and society's punishment for KKKramer is just - "public scorn and public apology, and a promise to never do it again" :tape:.

Even in this thread most posters would draw "the line" in different places. Obviously I wouldn't draw a line at all since I'm much more fearful of the guy who knows how to promote his racist agenda while appearing race neutral than I am the skinhead with whitepower tattooed on his forehead. ;)

Banning the word would help the unsophisticated racists more than it would me. :p

As mentioned before, I also like the distinction between its use by NWA vs. fake clowns on the NWA bandwagon and trying to make money. "Fuck Tha Police" wasn't popular speech (by majority society - or the FBI's - standards) but it was protected political speech wrt police abuse of minorities. Now if there's a rule against the N word, the Right Wing can use that rule to suppress the political portion of that speech.

Sure you can do that song without using the N word and you can complain about police brutality without even making a rap at all...

...but the combination of the rap, the image, the music, the twist on the racist word and the political speech made "the statement". :cool:

And I wouldn't have it any other way. :angel:

:worship: :worship: :worship:

DunkMachine
Nov 28th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Nigga what?!

I love saying the word nigga.... makes my teeth white - Paul Mooney

Denise4925
Nov 28th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Nigga what?!

I love saying the word nigga.... makes my teeth white - Paul Mooney

:haha:

Steffica Greles
Nov 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I'm ambivalent on this.

On one hand I know that the word is used to demean and has connotations rooted in slavery, which still affects some black people to this day.

Also, if I label myself fat or ugly or whatever infront of my friends, I don't feel bad. However, if they describe me in that way, that would in most cases be unacceptable to me. So the argument that blacks should not call other blacks "******s" (oops, I said it!) does not stack up.

On the other hand...

No group benefits from being seen as victims. Some African Americans have done very well at being seen as "successful" within the system as it stands. That is not to take away the right and necessity to protest sometimes. But the perception of victimhood, in my opinion, lowers blacks' confidence and subsequent achievement still more. I have heard various Afro-Caribbeans say this themselves.

My point? Reclaiming a word can often disarm oppressors far more than law-making. Women have reclaimed the word "fuck" to express active sexuality as opposed to passivity. Gays have reclaimed "queer" and "poof" (although I still don't like the terms). Furthermore, connotations of words change over time. "Black" was synonymous with "evil" several hundred years ago. Language is a free market and word meanings will always change no matter what.

So sometimes reclaiming words, as some blacks are trying to do, can actually disarm others and increase security in one's identity.

That said, of course I understand why many, many black people would find it difficult to take that view. For the record, I never use the word.

kiwifan
Nov 28th, 2006, 08:38 PM
I'm ambivalent on this.

On one hand I know that the word is used to demean and has connotations rooted in slavery, which still affects some black people to this day.

Also, if I label myself fat or ugly or whatever infront of my friends, I don't feel bad. However, if they describe me in that way, that would in most cases be unacceptable to me. So the argument that blacks should not call other blacks "******s" (oops, I said it!) does not stack up.

On the other hand...

No group benefits from being seen as victims. Some African Americans have done very well at being seen as "successful" within the system as it stands. That is not to take away the right and necessity to protest sometimes. But the perception of victimhood, in my opinion, lowers blacks' confidence and subsequent achievement still more. I have heard various Afro-Caribbeans say this themselves.

My point? Reclaiming a word can often disarm oppressors far more than law-making. Women have reclaimed the word "fuck" to express active sexuality as opposed to passivity. Gays have reclaimed "queer" and "poof" (although I still don't like the terms). Furthermore, connotations of words change over time. "Black" was synonymous with "evil" several hundred years ago. Language is a free market and word meanings will always change no matter what.

So sometimes reclaiming words, as some blacks are trying to do, can actually disarm others and increase security in one's identity.

That said, of course I understand why many, many black people would find it difficult to take that view. For the record, I never use the word.

Once again, nice post. :yeah:

samsung101
Nov 28th, 2006, 08:51 PM
Why does it take 'leaders' to say something that is so common sense?

I'm glad they are taking the time to ask artists to not use the word.
That's all you can do, ask them not to, explain why, and talk about
it. I don't usually like anything Maxine Waters says or does, but,
it's something she should be speaking out about.


It cannot be a banned word. Freedom of speech. That's just
a fact. But, using it should have consequences, and it should
be used knowing there will be and can be results to deal with.



It should be a word that isn't excused, as it is with music
and in film. Oh, it's part of the lingo, the culture, street talk,
gang talk, black person to black person it's okay to say, etc.

Well, no it shouldn't be. Because what market is buying up
rap music more than any other? White teens and 20-somethings.
Rap culture is used in tv ads. It's an accepted part of the society,
and language. So, this one word shouldn't be excused any longer,
shouldn't have been at all.

If derogatory words about gays are not acceptable on tv or in music,
and the word 'hate pops up if they are used...then, it should be
that way for the 'n' word too. Should have been all along.


Can't formally ban the word, we have free speech.
But, the market can demand artists know there is a price for
using the word with the consumers and audience.

*JR*
Nov 28th, 2006, 09:31 PM
...
As mentioned before, I also like the distinction between its use by NWA vs. fake clowns on the NWA bandwagon and trying to make money. "Fuck Tha Police" wasn't popular speech (by majority society - or the FBI's - standards) but it was protected political speech wrt police abuse of minorities. Now if there's a rule against the N word, the Right Wing can use that rule to suppress the political portion of that speech.

Sure you can do that song without using the N word and you can complain about police brutality without even making a rap at all...

...but the combination of the rap, the image, the music, the twist on the racist word and the political speech made "the statement". :cool:

And I wouldn't have it any other way. :angel:
OK, in theory. Now what about the N word's 2 "companions in rap" that the late C. Dolores Tucker also found destructive to the black community as commonly used: bitches and ho's? :scratch:

kiwifan
Nov 28th, 2006, 10:10 PM
OK, in theory. Now what about the N word's 2 "companions in rap" that the late C. Dolores Tucker also found destructive to the black community as commonly used: bitches and ho's? :scratch:

24 hours of research and googling since your last post in this thread and that's the best you got.

And still bringing oranges into an apple thread, I see. :nerner:

Short answer...same analysis for any word that ever existed. Nothing gets banned.

*JR*
Nov 28th, 2006, 11:47 PM
Short answer...same analysis for any word that ever existed. Nothing gets banned.
Ignoring your Pointless Provocation :p you again use the word "banned". In fact I don't see anyone calling for that, where there'd be civil or criminal penalties. Like these leaders or not, their call here was for a boycott, meaning simply "don't support socially destructive things with your money".

You know the difference, even if you find it convenient to play dumb on this key distinction. Meaning that if the spiritual heirs of the late, great Dr. C. Dolores Tucker :worship: are defeated @ the cash register, then the NWA wannabe's you referred to get to keep using the N word, etc. Not terribly complicated.
:shrug:

kiwifan
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:23 AM
Ignoring your Pointless Provocation :p

Damn, now you're drinking orange juice while we're dealing with nice solid apples.

"Oh we'll just put a little sticker on it" says the guardian of morals

"Our company won't sell anything with a little sticker on it" says the distribution chain, that is threatened behind the scenes at a later date by the guardian of morals.

Play dumb all you want, the thread is about not being allowed to use the word - I know what I'm talking about. ;)

Mandatory Restrictions = Ban

Nothing should be banned.

End of story.

You still haven't added "jack" to the debate and now you've had even more than 24 hours to try in vain to make a good point. :lol: :tape:

Go wiki-google the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

MisterQ
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:23 AM
Jackson also asked the public not to buy a DVD box set of the seventh season of the TV show "Seinfeld" that was released last week.


How effective is this particular gesture, really? Boycotting reruns of a show which is no longer made and which never endorsed (or it seems, even had occasion to be aware of) the recently-vented sentiments of one of its actors. True, Richards wouldn't then receive as many residuals, but neither would any of the innocent others involved in its creation.

harloo
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:39 AM
It seems Richards tirade has caused some black leaders to become reactive as if eradicating the "n word" can somehow solve all the problems in the black community. I sure do wish these leaders were as passionate about education in the inner city, the Aids epidemic, and the lack of parenting and positive influence in the lives of our children.

While I detest the usage of the word, I believe speech should be protected. However, I do agree with the removal of offensive lyrics and inapproprate songs during hours tenny boppers are listening and watching.

*JR*
Nov 29th, 2006, 01:30 AM
"Oh we'll just put a little sticker on it" says the guardian of morals

"Our company won't sell anything with a little sticker on it" says the distribution chain, that is threatened behind the scenes at a later date by the guardian of morals.

Play dumb all you want, the thread is about not being allowed to use the word - I know what I'm talking about. ;)

Mandatory Restrictions = Ban

Nothing should be banned.

End of story.
Sorry, spin it all you want, but if you support free enterprise, then the right of "guardians of morals" to fight back with boycotts comes with the territory. (And usually fails, as when the American Family Association tried to get Christians to boycott Disney for giving spousal health benefits to the same sex partners of its employees a few years ago). But they had every right to use their right of free speech on that, as the opponents of the use of the N word in rap, etc. also do.

morningglory
Nov 29th, 2006, 03:18 AM
My BLACK roommate uses it when referring to his black pals... :o

RVD
Nov 29th, 2006, 04:44 AM
Good analysis. :cool: Nice when someone doesn't use oranges when we're discussing apples. :p

Clearly banning it would be bad for say a movie on racism but good for say actual racism.

I just think, its not the legal system's role to draw the line that determines when its good speech and when its bad because without fail the line will be drawn in the wrong place...its society's job to sort out the good and the bad and society's punishment for KKKramer is just - "public scorn and public apology, and a promise to never do it again" :tape:.

Even in this thread most posters would draw "the line" in different places. Obviously I wouldn't draw a line at all since I'm much more fearful of the guy who knows how to promote his racist agenda while appearing race neutral than I am the skinhead with whitepower tattooed on his forehead. ;)

Banning the word would help the unsophisticated racists more than it would me. :p

As mentioned before, I also like the distinction between its use by NWA vs. fake clowns on the NWA bandwagon and trying to make money. "Fuck Tha Police" wasn't popular speech (by majority society - or the FBI's - standards) but it was protected political speech wrt police abuse of minorities. Now if there's a rule against the N word, the Right Wing can use that rule to suppress the political portion of that speech.

Sure you can do that song without using the N word and you can complain about police brutality without even making a rap at all...

...but the combination of the rap, the image, the music, the twist on the racist word and the political speech made "the statement". :cool:

And I wouldn't have it any other way. :angel:Great post!! :)

RVD
Nov 29th, 2006, 04:45 AM
I'm ambivalent on this.

On one hand I know that the word is used to demean and has connotations rooted in slavery, which still affects some black people to this day.

Also, if I label myself fat or ugly or whatever infront of my friends, I don't feel bad. However, if they describe me in that way, that would in most cases be unacceptable to me. So the argument that blacks should not call other blacks "******s" (oops, I said it!) does not stack up.

On the other hand...

No group benefits from being seen as victims. Some African Americans have done very well at being seen as "successful" within the system as it stands. That is not to take away the right and necessity to protest sometimes. But the perception of victimhood, in my opinion, lowers blacks' confidence and subsequent achievement still more. I have heard various Afro-Caribbeans say this themselves.

My point? Reclaiming a word can often disarm oppressors far more than law-making. Women have reclaimed the word "fuck" to express active sexuality as opposed to passivity. Gays have reclaimed "queer" and "poof" (although I still don't like the terms). Furthermore, connotations of words change over time. "Black" was synonymous with "evil" several hundred years ago. Language is a free market and word meanings will always change no matter what.

So sometimes reclaiming words, as some blacks are trying to do, can actually disarm others and increase security in one's identity.

That said, of course I understand why many, many black people would find it difficult to take that view. For the record, I never use the word.And yet another great post!! :cool:

RVD
Nov 29th, 2006, 04:51 AM
How effective is this particular gesture, really? Boycotting reruns of a show which is no longer made and which never endorsed (or it seems, even had occasion to be aware of) the recently-vented sentiments of one of its actors. True, Richards wouldn't then receive as many residuals, but neither would any of the innocent others involved in its creation.When an apple in a barrel goes bad, does the entire barrel suffer?

Ponder that one for a while, and I promise that you'll arrive at the proper conclusion in scenario you addressed above AND, the fate of the apples in the barrel. :lol: :angel:

RVD
Nov 29th, 2006, 04:55 AM
It seems Richards tirade has caused some black leaders to become reactive as if eradicating the "n word" can somehow solve all the problems in the black community. I sure do wish these leaders were as passionate about education in the inner city, the Aids epidemic, and the lack of parenting and positive influence in the lives of our children.

While I detest the usage of the word, I believe speech should be protected. However, I do agree with the removal of offensive lyrics and inapproprate songs during hours tenny boppers are listening and watching.I'm all for censuring certain words and images on Rap videos. I swear, when I'm looking a a rap video, it's more pornographic than the actual porn on the internet. In fact, I think some videos use these very same porn actors. :eek:

Kart
Nov 29th, 2006, 11:57 AM
Are we talking about the word "nigga" or "******?"
Because, as some of you know, people think there's a big difference in those words and the connotations that come along with them. It seems like some are you are talking about the use of the word "******." But I rarely hear that. I hear rappers and other people use the term "nigga." :scratch:


It doesn't translate into that big a difference in practice though does it ?

Both words sound the same and anyone using either is always going to leave their motives open to interpretation and there are always going to be people that interpret them in different ways.

Case in point - that school teacher that used the term to one of his pupils and got suspended despite his claiming that the connotations were benign.

Paneru
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:24 PM
My BLACK roommate uses it when referring to his black pals... :o

And when black people are amongst other
black friends it does not take on the negative
connotation or implications as when white people
use it.

Quite simply, IMO you are not going to change people's
minds easily at all in this instance when people do not
feel threatened or offended when using it amongst others.

"Nigga" or "Negro" in this instance takes on a very
diffferent form amongst many black people as
oppossed to "******".

A difference between friends and making something racial,
as I've seen black firends amongst white firends and still
use the same greeting of "Nigga" all the same regardless.

I've also noticed that it is more of a generational
thing as well. Across the racial board the feelings behind
those words aren't nearly as raw based on how the word
is used for one of the simpliest facts that we've not lived
through all of what other generations have, in using the word
to deliberately hurt and do so openly and being hurt so openly.
As well as the segregation and so forth.

So, I think it is no wonder why you'll get and have the divide as
to using the word and what it means in how it is used or not
with each individual person.

Paneru
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:25 PM
besides Maxine Waters when is that report going to quote the 'Black leaders'? :confused:

I'm beyond tired of the media running to Jessie 'I's got kids out of wedlock' Jackson and Al 'My perm is tight' Sharpeton like people are listening to them?

Thank You!

hdfb
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:39 PM
ending it = all the more reason to use it for rap artists.

Kunal
Nov 29th, 2006, 01:47 PM
im sorry but its not gonna happen.....the rappers will always use it.


movies will also use it

Kunal
Nov 29th, 2006, 01:53 PM
its just way too ingrained in the culture for someone to just come up and say we should wipe it out

CrossCourt~Rally
Nov 29th, 2006, 01:55 PM
I totally agree.:) Its most overused in rap songs :fiery:

DunkMachine
Nov 30th, 2006, 07:27 PM
Paul Mooney's comments cracked me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWI-dwJ0ZyU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cuX2uYOi4g&mode=related&search=

Mooney for president!

Stamp Paid
Nov 30th, 2006, 07:56 PM
I have a question for the white ppl that are so "offended" when rappers use it.
Are you truly offended because of how nasty the word is, or because someone is "allowed" to say it and you feel that you are not without being labeled a racist?

Denise4925
Nov 30th, 2006, 08:21 PM
It seems Richards tirade has caused some black leaders to become reactive as if eradicating the "n word" can somehow solve all the problems in the black community. I sure do wish these leaders were as passionate about education in the inner city, the Aids epidemic, and the lack of parenting and positive influence in the lives of our children.

While I detest the usage of the word, I believe speech should be protected. However, I do agree with the removal of offensive lyrics and inapproprate songs during hours tenny boppers are listening and watching.
:worship: :worship: :worship:
Great post. But, it's a bandwagon issue that will die soon. I don't think the word should be banned, as I staunchly believe in free-speech, but I think parents should teach their children not to bat the word around as freely, lest they become even more desensitized by using it so much. I also think that rappers and others, i.e. comediens should be more responsible when using it in their music or routines.

Steffica Greles
Nov 30th, 2006, 09:05 PM
I have a question for the white ppl that are so "offended" when rappers use it.
Are you truly offended because of how nasty the word is, or because someone is "allowed" to say it and you feel that you are not without being labeled a racist?

Good point.

Probably the latter for a lot of people, in truth. Although not for all. Some, because they would like freedom to use the word as an insult. Others, because they feel that they have to be extremely careful how they use language when being lighthearted in case they are "perceived" as a racist. And then they see rap stars using the word lightheartedly without, seemingly, much second thought.

I've already said what I think earlier in this thread.

Wigglytuff
Nov 30th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Are we talking about the word "nigga" or "******?"
Because, as some of you know, people think there's a big difference in those words and the connotations that come along with them. It seems like some are you are talking about the use of the word "******." But I rarely hear that. I hear rappers and other people use the term "nigga." :scratch:


yes there are people who think Shiraz and Syrah are two completely different things. but they are wrong. its the same grape with a different spelling. it can be spelled or said either way but at the end of the day the grape is still the same.

Wigglytuff
Nov 30th, 2006, 09:23 PM
It seems Richards tirade has caused some black leaders to become reactive as if eradicating the "n word" can somehow solve all the problems in the black community. I sure do wish these leaders were as passionate about education in the inner city, the Aids epidemic, and the lack of parenting and positive influence in the lives of our children.

While I detest the usage of the word, I believe speech should be protected. However, I do agree with the removal of offensive lyrics and inapproprate songs during hours tenny boppers are listening and watching.

you have me 100%. its a nasty word no doubt that really should not see an public use at all. but dont we have bigger fish fry?

I'm all for censuring certain words and images on Rap videos. I swear, when I'm looking a a rap video, it's more pornographic than the actual porn on the internet. In fact, I think some videos use these very same porn actors. :eek:

dude you called it!!! :worship: :worship:

*JR*
Nov 30th, 2006, 09:56 PM
I have a question for the white ppl that are so "offended" when rappers use it.
Are you truly offended because of how nasty the word is, or because someone is "allowed" to say it and you feel that you are not without being labeled a racist?Neither. I'm offended by social conditions that keep a large part of any group in what's "politely" called the underclass. (I'm fine with rappers who've tried to change these things, not exploit them). I find the use of the N word's "companions in rap" bitches and ho's offensive too, for glorifying the degradation of women.

Stamp Paid
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Good point.

Probably the latter for a lot of people, in truth. Although not for all. Some, because they would like freedom to use the word as an insult. Others, because they feel that they have to be extremely careful how they use language when being lighthearted in case they are "perceived" as a racist. And then they see rap stars using the word lightheartedly without, seemingly, much second thought.

I've already said what I think earlier in this thread.

But no one tells gay ppl they shuld stop calling themselves fags and dykes when amongst other gay people.

No one tells women that they cannot call eachother bitches when amongst other women.

When black people say "nigga" tho, its a huge issue. But no one tells these other groups to stop using terms that have historically degraded them. Why only black people??

Steffica Greles
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:37 PM
But no one tells gay ppl they shuld stop calling themselves fags and dykes when amongst other gay people.

No one tells women that they cannot call eachother bitches when amongst other women.

When black people say "nigga" tho, its a huge issue. But no one tells these other groups to stop using terms that have historically degraded them. Why only black people??

Well you haven't read my earlier post. I agreed with you, as it happens. You're right...although I have heard some heterosexual people lament that discrepancy. But gay people, in my own fairly wide experience, often don't mind being mocked or referred to in derogatory terms as long as they know it's ironic or sarcastic. As a gay man, I don't like other gays referring to themselves as "queers", although I would rather that the word is reclaimed than be used as a term of abuse.

I would also say that derogatory remarks about gay people have only recently become frowned upon in wider society. Many gay people used to lament -- and sometimes still do -- that gays can be verbally abused in Eminem's music or some reggae lyrics when no reputable record company would release groups singing racist lyrics.

So my point is that white people, at least in this country, are taught from their first year of school that the n-word is a strict, unmitigated "no no". I suspect it is the same in the states and across western Europe. That doesn't mean that it's never heard, but I defy any white to tell me that they are unaware that "******" is a very serious term of abuse.

So when whites hear blacks employing the word, it confounds them somewhat: "How could anybody possibly use that word?". Even though I've already acknowledged that if I call my own mum a bitch that's fine, but if anybody else refers to her as that then it's not. But people don't think that broadly.

I think homophobic remarks are still more socially acceptable, as well as the fact that the gay community has reclaimed a great deal of those words at any rate. "Gay" is sometimes used as a pejorative even now. The boyband Take That were recently pulled up over it, even though they are seen as very gay friendly. So when terms of abuse against gays are heard among heterosexuals, there is not the same indignation.

Wigglytuff
Nov 30th, 2006, 11:14 PM
But no one tells gay ppl they shuld stop calling themselves fags and dykes when amongst other gay people.

No one tells women that they cannot call eachother bitches when amongst other women.

When black people say "nigga" tho, its a huge issue. But no one tells these other groups to stop using terms that have historically degraded them. Why only black people??

i agree with you. but i do have to add that releasing an album or going on stage and going on and on about n-----rs is not being only among other blacks. not by a long shot.

plus dykes and bitches dont have the same history as something like "n----rs", still there is definitely a double standard. but i have to say i dont think this double standard is any reason to continue the public use of this word.

Kart
Nov 30th, 2006, 11:38 PM
But no one tells gay ppl they shuld stop calling themselves fags and dykes when amongst other gay people.


Oh I think they do.

I don't think this is limited to black people - I'd imagine the only reason why this thread has focused on that is because of the original post.

The point as I see it is that when words that can cause great offence are banded around carelessly then people are going to carelessly cause offence.

Rocketta
Dec 1st, 2006, 06:01 AM
a Boondocks strip touching on what we talked about in this thread.

http://www.uclick.com/feature/06/11/05/bo061105.gif

ico4498
Dec 1st, 2006, 07:40 AM
my peeps,

is it really so difficult to just say no?

the n*er crap is soo insane. and changing the "er" for an "a". eg. ****** nigga is silly beyond compute. it's all crap. move away, accept your African beauty! nothing to reclaim, nothing will be redeemed.

I&I are simply, peoples of African descent.

Wigglytuff
Dec 1st, 2006, 09:19 AM
my peeps,

is it really so difficult to just say no?

the n*er crap is soo insane. and changing the "er" for an "a". eg. ****** nigga is silly beyond compute. it's all crap. move away, accept your African beauty! nothing to reclaim, nothing will be redeemed.

I&I are simply, peoples of African descent.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Sam L
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:04 PM
I have a question for the white ppl that are so "offended" when rappers use it.
Are you truly offended because of how nasty the word is, or because someone is "allowed" to say it and you feel that you are not without being labeled a racist?

I'm offended because they are exploiting it to make money. It doesn't offend me but it's probably offending other people and they're exploiting it. They're also teaching kids foul words.

To be honest, I think rap is just evil and they should get rid of that music genre for good. Ban the music. Fine the singers.

Selah
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:06 PM
But no one tells gay ppl they shuld stop calling themselves fags and dykes when amongst other gay people.

No one tells women that they cannot call eachother bitches when amongst other women.

When black people say "nigga" tho, its a huge issue. But no one tells these other groups to stop using terms that have historically degraded them. Why only black people??


First, your first question regarding the issue was a good one. I always get the sense that is the case with many white people its like "I can't use the word, you get in arms when I use it, why should you be allowed to use it."

Your point in above post is also taken. I do somehow stand in the middle because i see how the word has been "taken back" by the youth culture of blacks in America (it is now also being used more frequently by blacks throughout the diaspora as well as kids of other races because of hip-hop). My problem, however, with the use of the word is that I think if kids go around calling themselves and everyone around them nigga that, nigga this, they start to somehow devalue themselves without even knowing it, which imo, can lead to very serious social repurcussions (won't get into all the issues with black youth etc) in terms of developing healthy, positive self-concepts.

You can say oh i just call my boys that but to me when you start seeing your boy as just a "nigga", and the next fella as just a nigga, you start to devalue them as a person. Again, my point focuses on youth who are still yet to develop their sense of self in the context of a racist America/World, and how they have to function to be successful adults in said world. However, on the other hand when i hear a youth say that "white nigga", or that "chinese nigga", I see that they are not putting any meaning beyond it other than "that dude". So, I guess I am still not so sure that the use of the word among blacks is that harmful to their social conditions in the larger picture. Is it worth boycotting the word? Is it going to make conditions for black youth better? I am not so sure that is where the energy needs to be placed. :shrug: I guess the jury is still out on that.

Funny enough, blacks calling other blacks nigga didn't start with hip-hop. I get the feeling that some older black people forget that.

Selah
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:21 PM
I'm offended because they are exploiting it to make money. It doesn't offend me but it's probably offending other people and they're exploiting it. They're also teaching kids foul words.

To be honest, I think rap is just evil and they should get rid of that music genre for good. Ban the music. Fine the singers.

You are getting more ludicrous with every post you make. You have seriously not contributed in any meaningful way on this board in a long time. Your ongoing rants about Muslims and Islam, your defense of racist, and your staunch zionism (only time you see something wrong with racism is when it is launched against Jews). Can't you see it is getting old. Do all of us and yourself a favor and give this username a rest for a bit. Or just talk about movies. Re-fuel, and come back next year, you are making yourself look foolish:)

Sam L
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:29 PM
You are getting more ludicrous with every post you make. You have seriously not contributed in any meaningful way on this board in a long time. Your ongoing rants about Muslims and Islam, your defense of racist, and your staunch zionism (only time you see something wrong with racism is when it is launched against Jews). Can't you see it is getting old. Do all of us and yourself a favor and give this username a rest for a bit. Or just talk about movies. Re-fuel, and come back next year, you are making yourself look foolish:)

Please, stay on topic. Give me a good reason why this foul excuse of music which has commercialised and exploited the word should exist? Get rid of it for good I say.

I swear the only reason why this word is ok for some is because they're making money out of it. :rolleyes:

Paneru
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:32 PM
You are getting more ludicrous with every post you make. You have seriously not contributed in any meaningful way on this board in a long time. Your ongoing rants about Muslims and Islam, your defense of racist, and your staunch zionism (only time you see something wrong with racism is when it is launched against Jews). Can't you see it is getting old. Do all of us and yourself a favor and give this username a rest for a bit. Or just talk about movies. Re-fuel, and come back next year, you are making yourself look foolish:)

Best thing to do is try and ignore
his/her stupidity. I know it's difficult
but one can always try.

*JR*
Dec 1st, 2006, 01:52 PM
I'm offended because they are exploiting it to make money. It doesn't offend me but it's probably offending other people and they're exploiting it. They're also teaching kids foul words.

To be honest, I think rap is just evil and they should get rid of that music genre for good. Ban the music. Fine the singers.
Your points (as relates to gangsta rappers or whatever that subgroup of rap is now called) are correct. Except for banning or fining them, etc. Besides making these guys cultural martyrs, one shouldn't try to outlaw stupidity, except where illegal behavior is specifically advocated. Boycotts (including against the companies who act as enablers) are a different matter, though.

Sam L
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:00 PM
Your points (as relates to gangsta rappers or whatever that subgroup of rap is now called) are correct. Except for banning or fining them, etc. Besides making these guys cultural martyrs, one shouldn't try to outlaw stupidity, except where illegal behavior is specifically advocated. Boycotts (including against the companies who act as enablers) are a different matter, though.

Good point, I retract that statement. The last thing one should want to do is make them martyrs or "victims". :rolleyes:

But something must be done.

Infiniti2001
Dec 1st, 2006, 02:30 PM
You are getting more ludicrous with every post you make. You have seriously not contributed in any meaningful way on this board in a long time. Your ongoing rants about Muslims and Islam, your defense of racist, and your staunch zionism (only time you see something wrong with racism is when it is launched against Jews). Can't you see it is getting old. Do all of us and yourself a favor and give this username a rest for a bit. Or just talk about movies. Re-fuel, and come back next year, you are making yourself look foolish:)


:worship: :worship: Truer words have never been spoken :clap2: :bigclap:

Stamp Paid
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:02 PM
I'm offended because they are exploiting it to make money. It doesn't offend me but it's probably offending other people and they're exploiting it. They're also teaching kids foul words.

To be honest, I think rap is just evil and they should get rid of that music genre for good. Ban the music. Fine the singers.

Ban Common? Ban De La Soul? Ban Outkast? Ban Talib Kweli, Mos Def? Shit, even the Black Eyed Peas? :confused:

Your ignorance of the genre is damning. The majority of rap is more than just "nigga this, nigga that, bitch this, ho that." You and Jolly Roger dont seem to realize that. Go after specific rapers that you feel are egregious, but attacking the whole genre is idiotic.

Thank God you are powerless over what I listen to.

Volcana
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:08 PM
I could care less. I'd like to see more attention paid substandard education for blacks in elementary schools, lack of health care in black communities, and anti-black discrimination in hiring.

Give me some real action on those, and no-talent comedians can use whatever words they want.

DunkMachine
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:38 PM
Is you nukkas still talking about this?!

*JR*
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:43 PM
Ban Common? Ban De La Soul? Ban Outkast? Ban Talib Kweli, Mos Def? Shit, even the Black Eyed Peas? :confused:

Your ignorance of the genre is damning. The majority of rap is more than just "nigga this, nigga that, bitch this, ho that." You and Jolly Roger dont seem to realize that. Go after specific rapers that you feel are egregious, but attacking the whole genre is idiotic.

Thank God you are powerless over what I listen to.
Jolly Roger explicitly said (twice ITT) that he's not for "banning" anybody. You (and the rappers you named, plus Kiwifan) must be pretty insecure about all this if you feel that the kind of boycott Sharpton and Jackson called for (and that JR guy endorsed) will bring rap to its knees.
:shrug:

Plus, you're a hypocrite. In other words, the free market is fine when it comes to ppl spending their money on something, but if they're persuaded not to then all of a sudden its censorship? Sorry, but (while boycotts rarely succeed) they're a form of free expression too. :rolleyes:

Helen Lawson
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:55 PM
I like Eve better than Lil' Kim, but I can't stand Trina.

Stamp Paid
Dec 1st, 2006, 09:01 PM
Jolly Roger explicitly said (twice ITT) that he's not for "banning" anybody. You (and the rappers you named, plus Kiwifan) must be pretty insecure about all this if you feel that the kind of boycott Sharpton and Jackson called for (and that JR guy endorsed) will bring rap to its knees.
:shrug:

Plus, you're a hypocrite. In other words, the free market is fine when it comes to ppl spending their money on something, but if they're persuaded not to then all of a sudden its censorship? Sorry, but (while boycotts rarely succeed) they're a form of free expression too. :rolleyes:

I read your posts, and I wasn't saying that you are for banning anything, I was talking to Sam L (In the post I quoted, he specifically spoke of a ban). However, I did say that you attack the entire genre (what you have given the misnomer "gangsta rap") for the sins of some prominent rappers.

Nothing will bring rap to its knees, the white kids in the 'burbs love it too much and the white men in the big Manhattan offices are making too much money off of it. So I am not insecure about the future of rap, its just that I dont like when an entire genre (that I love and have loved from the time I was 4 years old listening to De la Soul, EPMD, Naughty by Nature and yes, even MC Hammer) is attacked and then everything or most things wrong with the black community is attributed to it (by you, Cosby, etc. etc.).

Sam L
Dec 1st, 2006, 11:37 PM
I could care less. I'd like to see more attention paid substandard education for blacks in elementary schools, lack of health care in black communities, and anti-black discrimination in hiring.


The world doesn't revolve around black people. They all ready have equal treatment as others why should they get more? :rolleyes:

*JR*
Dec 1st, 2006, 11:53 PM
King, plz don't associate me with Bill Cosby. Ironically (re. his ignoring society's unwillingness to pay living wages to those who do "menial labor") I coined the phrase that black America can't Huxtable its way out of having an unacceptably high rate of poverty. (BTW, I find the poverty of the white working class unacceptable too). To phrase it in non-PC terms, you can't run a society with "all Chiefs and no Indians".

Rocketta
Dec 2nd, 2006, 12:17 AM
The world doesn't revolve around black people. They all ready have equal treatment as others why should they get more? :rolleyes:

Do us all a favor Sam and get on some medication. :o How would you know how black people are treated in the education process you live in Australia. :cuckoo:

RVD
Dec 2nd, 2006, 01:09 AM
Please, stay on topic. Give me a good reason why this foul excuse of music which has commercialised and exploited the word should exist? Get rid of it for good I say.

I swear the only reason why this word is ok for some is because they're making money out of it. :rolleyes:UNBELIEVEABLE Sam L...! you have actually done it!! You've managed to post yet another short-sighted post attacking the very same people you did in that "Black Jesus Film" thread.

Why don't you attack Rock n Roll?!
For decades this music has glorified SEX, DRUGS, DEATH, and the worship of DEVIL. Hell, it's even attacked the judicial authority of this nation infinite times. Yet where is your indignation!!!?!?!?!??!

You need to take a class on Hip-Hop culture, OR be honest with yourself about your true reasons behind your rants, because a very very small segment of Rap music is what you are using to attack an entire genre of incredible music. EDUCATE YOURSELF FIRST SAM L, then come back and discuss.

RVD
Dec 2nd, 2006, 01:16 AM
Your points (as relates to gangsta rappers or whatever that subgroup of rap is now called) are correct. Except for banning or fining them, etc. Besides making these guys cultural martyrs, one shouldn't try to outlaw stupidity, except where illegal behavior is specifically advocated. Boycotts (including against the companies who act as enablers) are a different matter, though.I [strongly] beg to differ!

Now had Sam L said 'Gangsta Rap', I might have been inclined to consider such a proposal. However, as I've written in my previous post, where is the indignation of ROCK music?! Should we also ban that? And how about Grunge, and Acid, and Punk music? Even Country music glories promiscuity. What about these genres?

Come on now.
You guys are beginning to sound like Joe Lieberman and his ridiculous single-mended attack on a peripheral problem, to gain political support from the opposing party.

*JR*
Dec 2nd, 2006, 01:37 AM
I [strongly] beg to differ!

Now had Sam L said 'Gangsta Rap', I might have been inclined to consider such a proposal. However, as I've written in my previous post, where is the indignation of ROCK music?! Should we also ban that? And how about Grunge, and Acid, and Punk music? Even Country music glories promiscuity. What about these genres?

Come on now.
You guys are beginning to sound like Joe Lieberman and his ridiculous single-mended attack on a peripheral problem, to gain political support from the opposing party.
Sam didn't say Gangsta Rap... but I did. (Though as someone once said that the term is obsolete, I added the disclaimer re. whatever it may now be called). And for the errr, "record", I strongly supported Tipper Gore's effort in the 80's to have warning labels put on those other genre's you mentioned. BTW:

Sympathy For The :devil:
The Rolling Stones
(M. Jagger/K. Richards)

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

Sam L
Dec 2nd, 2006, 01:39 AM
Now had Sam L said 'Gangsta Rap',

Sorry that's what I meant. But I will be scrutinizing other forms of rap too.

Stamp Paid
Dec 2nd, 2006, 02:10 AM
Sorry that's what I meant. But I will be scrutinizing other forms of rap too.

Really? What is gangsta rap then, Sam? :) Can you name 3 gangsta rappers? Or at least 1 gangsta rap song that you find particularly egregious? (without using Wikipedia, for a change.)

RVD
Dec 2nd, 2006, 02:18 AM
Sam didn't say Gangsta Rap... but I did. (Though as someone once said that the term is obsolete, I added the disclaimer re. whatever it may now be called). And for the errr, "record", I strongly supported Tipper Gore's effort in the 80's to have warning labels put on those other genre's you mentioned. BTW:

Sympathy For The :devil:
The Rolling Stones
(M. Jagger/K. Richards)

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made

I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my gameAhhh... I missed that. My bad. :wavey:

...and :lol: @ 'Sympathy For The Devil' ... :worship:

Most don't realize that the song is being sung from the perspective of The Devil. :hehehe:

RVD
Dec 2nd, 2006, 02:23 AM
Sorry that's what I meant. But I will be scrutinizing other forms of rap too.Okay. :)
However, that scrutiny should carry over into other genres as well.
All I'm suggesting is that we be fair all the way around.

Sam L
Dec 2nd, 2006, 02:29 AM
Okay. :)
However, that scrutiny should carry over into other genres as well.
All I'm suggesting is that we be fair all the way around.
I agree like into some heavy metal music like Marilyn Manson which I think is wrong too. But I'm a fan of country music and it doesn't glorify promiscuity. :)

kiwifan
Dec 2nd, 2006, 04:46 PM
Okay. :)
However, that scrutiny should carry over into other genres as well.
All I'm suggesting is that we be fair all the way around.

http://www.nypost.com/img/nypmasthead.gif (http://www.nypost.com/)

WORD TO AVOID
December 2, 2006 -- DON'T feel bad, Michael Richards - Gayle King and Oprah Winfrey use the "N-word" all the time! :cool: :p Though Oprah has been very vocal about her distaste for the word on her show, King told her XM Radio listeners while discussing Richards' racist outburst, "You know, I have to say, in the privacy of my own home, with my closest friends, who shall remain nameless, you know, we have - we have used that [word] when we're talking about other people. So I go back and forth between a term of endearment, sometimes, the way it's used, and just a very hateful, bad thing."

"We Should Boycott Oprah" :weirdo: :silly: :weirdo:

*JR*
Dec 2nd, 2006, 07:40 PM
http://www.nypost.com/img/nypmasthead.gif (http://www.nypost.com/)

WORD TO AVOID
December 2, 2006 -- DON'T feel bad, Michael Richards - Gayle King and Oprah Winfrey use the "N-word" all the time! :cool: :p Though Oprah has been very vocal about her distaste for the word on her show, King told her XM Radio listeners while discussing Richards' racist outburst, "You know, I have to say, in the privacy of my own home, with my closest friends, who shall remain nameless, you know, we have - we have used that [word] when we're talking about other people. So I go back and forth between a term of endearment, sometimes, the way it's used, and just a very hateful, bad thing."

"We Should Boycott Oprah" :weirdo: :silly: :weirdo:
Oh, stop being silly. This is somewhat like the debate on smoking bans in public areas. Even if places with them (like NYC) ppl can still smoke in their own homes, cars, etc. (if whoever sets the rules in those places allows it).

Maybe the evolving public standards on these things will make the next generation more enlightened re. what ppl do in private, but I haven't heard anything about a secret police regulating ppl's homes in either area. (The issue of illegal drugs in private homes is separate, and can be debated in another thread when someone starts one on that, I guess).

RVD
Dec 2nd, 2006, 10:48 PM
http://www.nypost.com/img/nypmasthead.gif (http://www.nypost.com/)

WORD TO AVOID
December 2, 2006 -- DON'T feel bad, Michael Richards - Gayle King and Oprah Winfrey use the "N-word" all the time! :cool: :p Though Oprah has been very vocal about her distaste for the word on her show, King told her XM Radio listeners while discussing Richards' racist outburst, "You know, I have to say, in the privacy of my own home, with my closest friends, who shall remain nameless, you know, we have - we have used that [word] when we're talking about other people. So I go back and forth between a term of endearment, sometimes, the way it's used, and just a very hateful, bad thing."

"We Should Boycott Oprah" :weirdo: :silly: :weirdo::spit: :haha: :worship: