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hurricanejeanne
Oct 14th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Larry Scott May Offer Tennis Olive Branch To Lindsay Davenport. (from onthebaseline.com)


It is no secret that Lindsay Davenport may be slightly miffed at Larry Scott and the rest of the head honchos at the WTA Tour, but it now appears that Scott may be willing to offer a peace offering in hopes of convincing one of America’s best tennis stars to play a little more tennis.

Lindsay Davenport only played twenty-nine professional tennis matches all season, but she is still America’s best hope for winning big on the international stage.

Venus and Serena Williams offered a meager contribution this season, the up and coming players - Vania King and Jamea Jackson - are still developing their games, and Jennifer Capriati and Monica Seles are all but officially retired. Meghann Shaughnessy did raise the Star-Spangled Banner twice so far in tournament finals this season, but she has not made it past the quarterfinals of a tournament higher than a Tier III in over two years.

Lindsay Davenport has reportedly decided to withdraw from both of her final two events this season, but no one officially knows whether she will retire from tennis or show up in Australia rejuvenated and ready to compete back on the tour.

Lisa Dillman at the Los Angeles Times, one of my favorite tennis writers, threw a dash of intrigue into the mystery on Davenport’s retirement this morning in her article on the WTA’s problem with player withdrawals.

Separately, Scott said he has been in talks with Lindsay Davenport and her representatives regarding her request for gold exempt emeritus status in 2007.

“At this time last year, when she requested it, she was ranked No. 1 in the world,” Scott said. “This time, by the end of this year, she’s probably going to be ranked in the 30s. It’s a completely different situation as I look at next year.”
(source: Los Angeles Times)

If Larry Scott grants Lindsay Davenport gold-exempt status - the ability to accept wild-cards into any event - it just might be enough to postpone her retirement once again. Lindsay has always been an vocal critic on the length of the tennis season, and has come out and said that the Tour is wrong for making players enter so many tournaments, even after they flatly tell the officials that they have no intention of playing the event because of the toil on their bodies.

As much as I would love to see Lindsay extend her career and play a little longer, you kind of have to wonder about the image the US will be projecting next season. It’s biggest stars, Lindsay Davenport, Venus Williams, and Serena Williams, entering tournaments all over the globe at the mercy of wild-cards


______________________
And the situation gets even more bizarre.
But if Lindsay is granted GEE, it may just be enough to keep her around.

Lindsayfan32
Oct 14th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Thanks for posting its an interesting article. If this keeps Lindsay in the game a little longer so be it and it may even help her win that fourth slam if she doesn't have to play as much. May be Larry Scott and the tour are doing this to avoid being sued as that may be the next step but an highly unlikely next step. I always said folding for this year is a good idea so it won't bother me if Lindsay doesn't play the last two events entered and tries to get her fitness back to where it was if she wants to play on. 2007 is likley to be her final year on tourr if she plays on so let's make it a great one if it is.

The Daviator
Oct 15th, 2006, 12:27 AM
Interesting, so I guess this means that Lindsay is considering coming out of retirement ;)

LindsayRulz
Oct 15th, 2006, 01:41 AM
Thanks hurricanejeanne for the artical :)

hurricanejeanne
Oct 15th, 2006, 01:53 AM
Thanks hurricanejeanne for the artical :)

Your all welcome for the article :) , it had just been posted on the site when I found it.

It certainly adds to the situation Lindsay is in. Perhaps outing the tour at the USO has had it's affects.

Andrew..
Oct 15th, 2006, 02:55 AM
Rewarding a new found non-commitment to the game. Another brilliant move by the WTA.

MH0861
Oct 15th, 2006, 05:28 AM
Rewarding a new found non-commitment to the game. Another brilliant move by the WTA.

Well, atleast now she can really wake up one day and decide to play in Canada and get in. ;)

Lindsayfan32
Oct 15th, 2006, 06:51 AM
Rewarding a new found non-commitment to the game. Another brilliant move by the WTA.

Gee Andrew we're so positive. If Lindsay wants to scale back don't you think earnt the right to after 15 years of playing on the tour. I know personally I would rather see Lindsay play a limited schedule next year than not at all. So when Lindsay decides to call it a day it her decision and its because she's had enough not a dumb tour rule standinfg in her way you comment in the this context is just dumb.

mike/topgun
Oct 15th, 2006, 07:55 AM
thanks for the article hurricanejeanne :D

yay for WTA:bigclap: Larry Scott:rolleyes:

Lindsay must be really happy with the news, as she's preparing for her 2007 campaign to win the 4th GS title.:banana:

Will it be enough to get her out of semi-retirement attitude:unsure:
All she needs is to have fun on court, so she must do well and get fit.
So, there is a significant chance that the Beijing loss was not her last match on tour?;)

Lindsay :bounce:

btw. I wanted Lindsay to shelve the season here, so I'm not disappointed that she's not playing Linz and QC:p but didn't she play Bali, cos she likes this paradise...and Beijing cos she's never been to China before?:lol:

dav abu
Oct 15th, 2006, 07:34 PM
I don't know I'm trying to be positive but I really think she will walk away soon. She has deleted her myspace not that it means anything I suppose. I wouldn't mind if she only played a little bit next year just as long as she would be around!

Andrew..
Oct 15th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Gee Andrew we're so positive. If Lindsay wants to scale back don't you think earnt the right to after 15 years of playing on the tour. I know personally I would rather see Lindsay play a limited schedule next year than not at all. So when Lindsay decides to call it a day it her decision and its because she's had enough not a dumb tour rule standinfg in her way you comment in the this context is just dumb.
This isn't about scaling back because of health concerns, though. The last two years, she's adopted the Venus/Serena scheduling doctrine. And her behavior this year, more specifially from September on, shows that she has zero dedication to tennis right now.

There is no "dumb rule" in her way. It's not the WTA's fault that she's been throwing a continual one-year hissy fit. And now, they're rewarding her for that behavior.

Andrew..
Oct 15th, 2006, 07:58 PM
I don't know I'm trying to be positive but I really think she will walk away soon. She has deleted her myspace not that it means anything I suppose. I wouldn't mind if she only played a little bit next year just as long as she would be around!
Lolz. You actually thought that was her.

Lindsayfan32
Oct 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM
We could debate this issue backwards and forwards and sideways even for the next month. Let's wait until announcement is made offically. We all have our own views on what's happened or what might happen let's leave it be until then the longer it goes on the more pointless getting. We can only go on rumours at moment that's what makes it pointless in the first place.

LethalLindsay
Oct 16th, 2006, 12:21 AM
I agree with Lindsayfan32, she HAS earned the right on many fronts to pick and choose. Serena/Venus is TOTALLY different......they have always been like that and Lindsay has not.

MH0861
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:38 AM
Lindsay is apparently on the Gold Exempt list for 2007.

Andrew..
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:47 AM
That's not a surprise. She was/is firmly inside of the top 20, and the list is taken from the rankings the week after the USO.

She shouldn't even be applying for GEE status.

Andrew..
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:49 AM
She's #3 on the GE list. WTF.

hurricanejeanne
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:54 AM
She's #3 on the GE list. WTF.

LOL. That was my reaction as well. Now I'm really confused.

Andrew..
Oct 17th, 2006, 01:03 AM
So, she's obviously not retiring now.

Making her year-end schedule, or more accurately, lack of one, even dumber.

MH0861
Oct 17th, 2006, 02:15 AM
She shouldn't even be applying for GEE status.

Why not? So she can be a real player like everyone else? My feeling is, if she can have it at this point in life, why not. If anything, it'll let her play more (if she actually feels like it). She's obviously being stubborn at this point in her career about scheduling - and we know Lindsay isn't going to change - atleast if she has GEE, she can play the Montreal/Toronto and Zurichs that she randomly decides that she wants to.

MH0861
Oct 17th, 2006, 02:16 AM
So, she's obviously not retiring now.

Making her year-end schedule, or more accurately, lack of one, even dumber.

I hope to God she isn't retiring after that awful performance in Beijing. She definitely has to go out on better terms.

!<blocparty>!
Oct 17th, 2006, 10:17 AM
I don't understand... could someone please explain. Why can't she enter tournaments and plan a schedule in advance... like the rest of the tour?

:shrug:

Lindsayfan32
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:01 PM
I don't understand... could someone please explain. Why can't she enter tournaments and plan a schedule in advance... like the rest of the tour?

:shrug:

Its not just about planning tournements in advance but it is part of it. Lindsay was asked to enter 12 tournments regardless of if she was going to play in them or not and was even asked to do this when she was still injured. She has been playing for close to 15 years don't you think she has earnt the right to pick and choose when she plays. I think the best thing Lindsay did was exposing this practice as it so wrong. People buy tickets to a tournement expecting to see certain players and then they pull out and in some cases never intent to play in the first place. Lindsay has taken a stand against this very practice and this is one I fully support her on.

MH0861
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:07 PM
I don't understand... could someone please explain. Why can't she enter tournaments and plan a schedule in advance... like the rest of the tour?

:shrug:

Because she's a chronically injured ho who has no idea what she's doing 3 months in advance anymore.

!<blocparty>!
Oct 17th, 2006, 12:12 PM
Right, yeah, she took a stand against the tour. We liked that! She's still being stubborn bitch about the whole issue and her ranking has tanked as a result of it.

I don't get why she cares about pulling out of tournaments anyway, it's not like she thinks she has fans.

pierce0415
Oct 17th, 2006, 01:02 PM
She's #3 on the GE list. WTF.

she was #3 in 2006
we don't know what number she is in 2007 but she is in the top 10 :wavey:

The Daviator
Oct 17th, 2006, 01:11 PM
Because she's a chronically injured ho who has no idea what she's doing 3 months in advance anymore.

:lol:

She wants to play, but on her terms, I think after representing the tour for the past decade or so, better than anyone else IMO, what with the media, playing pretty full schedules (barring injury), etc., she should be allowed this, no-one had a problem with Agassi doing this in his last few years, they just wanted him to stay in the game, I think most would like the same with Lindsay...

Most, not all clearly :p

MH0861
Oct 17th, 2006, 02:31 PM
I don't get why she cares about pulling out of tournaments anyway, it's not like she thinks she has fans.

Well, the US Open could've gone to her head in that department. The standing ovation during the Srebotnik match was :hearts: :hearts: , or when Arthur Ashe erupted into roaring applause during one of Agassi's matches when the scoreboard showed LD won. :hearts:

mike/topgun
Oct 17th, 2006, 04:20 PM
:confused:

So, that means like she's not retiring yet:unsure:
We never know with Lindsay...and the mere fact of being on the GE list doesn't exactly mean that she's definitely planning to play through next year, or did she make the commitment??? Then why all the mess about those wild cards for Montreal, Zurich???

GrandSlam05
Oct 17th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Lindsay DESERVES a pat on the back.

Andrew..
Oct 17th, 2006, 05:30 PM
Why not? So she can be a real player like everyone else? My feeling is, if she can have it at this point in life, why not. If anything, it'll let her play more (if she actually feels like it). She's obviously being stubborn at this point in her career about scheduling - and we know Lindsay isn't going to change - atleast if she has GEE, she can play the Montreal/Toronto and Zurichs that she randomly decides that she wants to.
She shouldn't apply because she's #3 on the GE list already. She'd got those WC's on the GE list. She didn't get them last year because she defaulted on the contract.

MH0861
Oct 17th, 2006, 06:49 PM
She shouldn't apply because she's #3 on the GE list already. She'd got those WC's on the GE list. She didn't get them last year because she defaulted on the contract.

I thought it wasn't confirmed she's #3 on the 2007 list, but that's she's in the Top 10?

Plus, it seems apparent she could default on the contract in 2007 again if she chooses to play. I don't see why you have such a problem with her taking GEE if she's earned it after all these years on the tour - at her age, with her body, and with her dwindling motivation.

I know you want her to act like a "real" tennis player, but let's face it Andrew, those days are over.

mike/topgun
Oct 17th, 2006, 07:39 PM
I know you want her to act like a "real" tennis player, but let's face it Andrew, those days are over.
:tape:

hurricanejeanne
Oct 17th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Why not? So she can be a real player like everyone else? My feeling is, if she can have it at this point in life, why not. If anything, it'll let her play more (if she actually feels like it). She's obviously being stubborn at this point in her career about scheduling - and we know Lindsay isn't going to change - atleast if she has GEE, she can play the Montreal/Toronto and Zurichs that she randomly decides that she wants to.

This is pretty much how I feel too.
Lindsay's eligible for it, she meets the requirements and it's exactly what she wants in terms of her scheduling...she can play where she wants without signing the player commitment contract and still ask/recieve wildcards into tournaments at a moment's notice. She's never going to play 14+ tournaments a year ever again.

We're just going to have to wait and see if she gets the exempt status or not. :shrug:

Lindsayfan32
Oct 17th, 2006, 08:36 PM
This is pretty much how I feel too.
Lindsay's eligible for it, she meets the requirements and it's exactly what she wants in terms of her scheduling...she can play where she wants without signing the player commitment contract and still ask/recieve wildcards into tournaments at a moment's notice. She's never going to play 14+ tournaments a year ever again.

We're just going to have to wait and see if she gets the exempt status or not. :shrug:


I agree with you totally. I really don't get the people who say she has no right to it and then site what the Williams sisters have done there is a big difference between them and what they have done for the tour.

Andrew..
Oct 17th, 2006, 08:55 PM
I agree with you totally. I really don't get the people who say she has no right to it and then site what the Williams sisters have done there is a big difference between them and what they have done for the tour.
What have they done for the tour? While I'm not a fan, I'll be the first to admit that they brought the WTA to a new level of popularity in the US for a while. They were the WTA's first superstars.

The reason Lindsay is being compared to the Williams sisters is because she's doing the same things they do. Play like six events a year, talk about all the "hard work" they're putting into their tennis, pull out of tournaments right before the start dates with "flu", and are then seen that day at a party, and they disappear from tennis for months at a time. Lindsay is no better with any of that than any of the Williams sisters.

Jack
Oct 22nd, 2006, 02:11 PM
The reason Lindsay is being compared to the Williams sisters is because she's doing the same things they do. Play like six events a year,


She played in eight events this year. The only other year of her professional career that she played fewer than 15 events was 2002, when her season didn't start until July. She played 9 events in 2002.


talk about all the "hard work" they're putting into their tennis,

I hadn't heard of Lindsay talking about "hard work" this year. She acknowledged that she didn't spend much time on court at all during her time away.


pull out of tournaments right before the start dates with "flu", and are then seen that day at a party,

I'm not aware of Lindsay pulling out of events with the flu. She did pull out of the Standford, San Diego, and the Canadian, but did not claim illness as the reason. Perhaps she has for Linz & Quebec? I haven't heard.

and they disappear from tennis for months at a time.
When did she "disappear"? During the period of time that she wasn't playing, the media was in contact with her to ask about her return.


Lindsay is no better with any of that than any of the Williams sisters.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but for the reasons stated above, I think they are drastically different situations.

Would you prefer she show up to an event when she doesn't feel she can compete and give a tank job? Perhaps that would be a better alternative?

MH0861
Oct 22nd, 2006, 02:16 PM
I'm not aware of Lindsay pulling out of events with the flu. She did pull out of the Standford, San Diego, and the Canadian, but did not claim illness as the reason. Perhaps she has for Linz & Quebec? I haven't heard.



Off the top of my head, I think she pulled out of Zurich in 2004 with the Flu - but she was obviously sick in Moscow the week before.

Ohhh, remember that withdrawal from Philly in 2005? I remembered she withdrew out of nowhere and then was at a Ducks Hockey Game. Shock of all shockers, I looked up the draw and she withdrew with the flu. And then went to a hockey game. :help:

LethalLindsay
Oct 22nd, 2006, 02:34 PM
Serena and Venus have been pulling this crap for YEARS......comparing Lindsay to them is callous and ridiculous! She is a 17 year tour veteran and has EARNED the right. Neither TBJ nor Venus EVER earned it and the dats when they could just "turn up" and win are LOOOOOOOONG gone, hence their results over the last year and a half.

LethalLindsay
Oct 22nd, 2006, 02:35 PM
dats = days.........................sorry!

The Daviator
Oct 22nd, 2006, 02:45 PM
In 2004, she played 17 events...

In 2005, she played 16 events...

I don't know where this '6 events a year' stuff is coming from :confused:

She didn't play much this year, but she was injured March through July :shrug: So she decided not to play the last part of the season, big deal, Mauresmo hardly plays during the summer, Sharapova hardly plays during the clay season, so what?

Although, I suppose any opportunity to bash will be taken by some :)

LethalLindsay
Oct 22nd, 2006, 03:40 PM
Although, I suppose any opportunity to bash will be taken by some :)



YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!

hurricanejeanne
Oct 22nd, 2006, 03:42 PM
She played in eight events this year. The only other year of her professional career that she played fewer than 15 events was 2002, when her season didn't start until July. She played 9 events in 2002.

And strangely enough, both years were her worst in terms of long-term injuries. Go figure huh.

I'm not aware of Lindsay pulling out of events with the flu. She did pull out of the Standford, San Diego, and the Canadian, but did not claim illness as the reason. Perhaps she has for Linz & Quebec? I haven't heard.

The only time I can think of is, as stated was, Zurich 2004, where I believe after her semifinal loss in Moscow, she had to put up with an IV because she was so ill. Philly 2005 I believe was one of those cases where she had no intention on playing what so ever. There has been no known reason why she pulled out of Linz/QC.

When did she "disappear"? During the period of time that she wasn't playing, the media was in contact with her to ask about her return.

The only time I can think of this year that we really didn't know what was going on with her was around Wimbledon, when she suffered her concussion. After her pullout from Stanford we started getting more information.

If she had played the schedule that she had planned in January she would have played between 14-17 tournaments. Pretty normal amount.
This year sucked for her, that's life.

Andrew..
Oct 22nd, 2006, 05:55 PM
I'm not aware of Lindsay pulling out of events with the flu. She did pull out of the Standford, San Diego, and the Canadian, but did not claim illness as the reason. Perhaps she has for Linz & Quebec? I haven't heard.
She pulled out of Phili last year after showing up at the player's party. She was then seen the night of her pull out at a Ducks game. She was clearly very ill.

When did she "disappear"? During the period of time that she wasn't playing, the media was in contact with her to ask about her return.
No. Nobdy knew WTF was going on with her until the summer hardcourts. Her "head injury" didn't even hit the media until the LA Times wrote briefly about it after Wimbledon.

Would you prefer she show up to an event when she doesn't feel she can compete and give a tank job?
She does that, anyway.

Andrew..
Oct 22nd, 2006, 05:57 PM
I don't know where this '6 events a year' stuff is coming from :confused:
The eight she played this year.

She didn't play much this year, but she was injured March through July :shrug: So she decided not to play the last part of the season, big deal, Mauresmo hardly plays during the summer, Sharapova hardly plays during the clay season, so what?
When you only play eight events to begin with, taking the rest of the year off isn't helpful.

Although, I suppose any opportunity to bash will be taken by some :)
Yes, I'm a HATER~~.

I like Lindsay. I'm just calling bullshit on her excuses this year.

Andrew..
Oct 22nd, 2006, 06:05 PM
Philly 2005 I believe was one of those cases where she had no intention on playing what so ever.
Then why commit to play.

There has been no known reason why she pulled out of Linz/QC.
Watch her matches in Beijing. That should clarify.

The only time I can think of this year that we really didn't know what was going on with her was around Wimbledon, when she suffered her concussion. After her pullout from Stanford we started getting more information.

If she had played the schedule that she had planned in January she would have played between 14-17 tournaments. Pretty normal amount.
Venus and Serena are supposed to play 17 tournaments a year, according to their published schedules. But we know how that goes.

Lindsay has turned into what she used to hate - part-time tennis players who spend more time hanging out with Hollywood hot-shots than on a tennis court.

And this forum has turned into Williams Tennis Association, at least, the attitudes are the same. "She's happy, so who cares! She can still beat anyone! She's really injured, but she'll be back strong!"

1. That's nice that she's happy, and it's her life, etc. But she is a professional tennis player. This is her job. She's supposed to be on court, working. If you only worked 8 weeks out of the year, and do a half-assed job part of the time, you're not doing your job well. If she's so unhappy that she doesn't want to train, or show up at tournaments, then quit, and go hang out with Gwen more.

2. She can't just step on court and beat anyone anymore. So yeah, her seedings really do matter at this stage.

3. She's not injured right now. If anyone actually believes that, then yeah...

I'm sure she'll be back for Indian Wells, though!

!<blocparty>!
Oct 22nd, 2006, 06:19 PM
I really don't get why everyone in here is like "Lindsay is a tour veteran! 17 YEARS!" "She deserves extra special treatment from the tour because of her injury prone body!". She's a professional athlete and should stick to the rules just like everyone else does, at 30.

If she really wants to play next year she's not going to get anywhere with some bullshit 8 event schedule, except maybe tier II semi's and slam 4R's. Who wants to see that anyway? Either decide to be a 'proper' tennis player or retire. If her 'injury prone body' won't allow her to do that, then whatever.

Watching her in Bali and Beijing kind of disgusted me... if she's back next year with the same or a similar attitude then she should really ask herself WTF she's doing out there. YES it's the fall YES nobody really likes playing this time of year but Lindsay's probably won more matches and titles than anyone else on tour during this time of the year, since 1999. And she took like 6 months off in the middle of this year.

hurricanejeanne
Oct 22nd, 2006, 06:56 PM
Then why commit to play.


Watch her matches in Beijing. That should clarify.


Venus and Serena are supposed to play 17 tournaments a year, according to their published schedules. But we know how that goes.

Lindsay has turned into what she used to hate - part-time tennis players who spend more time hanging out with Hollywood hot-shots than on a tennis court.

And this forum has turned into Williams Tennis Association, at least, the attitudes are the same. "She's happy, so who cares! She can still beat anyone! She's really injured, but she'll be back strong!"

1. That's nice that she's happy, and it's her life, etc. But she is a professional tennis player. This is her job. She's supposed to be on court, working. If you only worked 8 weeks out of the year, and do a half-assed job part of the time, you're not doing your job well. If she's so unhappy that she doesn't want to train, or show up at tournaments, then quit, and go hang out with Gwen more.

2. She can't just step on court and beat anyone anymore. So yeah, her seedings really do matter at this stage.

3. She's not injured right now. If anyone actually believes that, then yeah...

I'm sure she'll be back for Indian Wells, though!

1. It is her life. She's made her bed and now she has to lie in it.
I do agree with you that if you don't put in the work you cannot expect the results. I think somewhere she still though that she'd have this "mental edge" over certain players while playing like shit, Bali and Beijing proved her wrong. And if she did think like that, then that was horrible judgement on her part.
I don't expect her to play 14+ events ever again, but she should have played this fall, at least one indoor tournament. It wouldn't have killed her to show up at one, she is one of the most successful indoor players on tour.

Its frustrating because not a goddamn one of us knows where she stands. Is she going to put forth the effort and play with conviction next year or is she going to quit?

2. Agreed. She's at the moment a shadow of herself. No confidence, no game plan. The only way she can turn it around is to commit whole hearted to the game again and by putting in the time on and off the court. It seemed like she was going in the right direction in New Haven, but she completely collapsed after the USO.

3. I never said she was injured right now. She just didn't want to haul her ass overseas.

I don't see where there's a problem with her playing a 10-14 tournament schedule. 8 isn't enough, but 17 is too much.

I have no problem with anyone calling her out of her issues. That's what we're supposed to do, discuss the positive and the negative. Unfortunately this season there's been more negative then positive.

mike/topgun
Oct 22nd, 2006, 07:08 PM
blah, blah, blah...all the same crap again.

"Lindsay should commit, or retire"...
I'd say that she needs to find out the way to actually have fun on court again...she's no longer the playa she was in 2005 anyway, so we can't expect from her those type of results she's had during last three years.
I'd be more anxious if she decided to play again next year, without commiting to certain events, to the game itself and to the hard work she needs to do in order to get back where she belongs. I'm not pesimistic, but what we saw in Beijing was terrible. Don't want to see her like that ever again. Seriously.

Andrew..
Oct 22nd, 2006, 08:32 PM
3. I never said she was injured right now. She just didn't want to haul her ass overseas.

I don't see where there's a problem with her playing a 10-14 tournament schedule. 8 isn't enough, but 17 is too much.

I have no problem with anyone calling her out of her issues. That's what we're supposed to do, discuss the positive and the negative. Unfortunately this season there's been more negative then positive.
I never said you did. :p However, I wouldn't put that past some other posters in this forum.

Exactly. The negatives easily outweigh the positives with Lindsay right now. I'm glad we understand that.

You on the other hand...

blah, blah, blah...all the same crap again.

"Lindsay should commit, or retire"...
I'd say that she needs to find out the way to actually have fun on court again...she's no longer the playa she was in 2005 anyway, so we can't expect from her those type of results she's had during last three years.
I'd be more anxious if she decided to play again next year, without commiting to certain events, to the game itself and to the hard work she needs to do in order to get back where she belongs. I'm not pesimistic, but what we saw in Beijing was terrible. Don't want to see her like that ever again. Seriously.
That's not crap. Lindsay needs to make a decision: does she want to be a professional tennis player. Yes or no.

The "she's not the player she used to be" line is crap. True, she's not had those results, but I firmly believe that's of her own doing. I don't think she's putting in the work required, both on court and off, to be a top level tennis player. Her natural talent is immense. She can be top ten for another five years on her ball striking alone. She's wasting her talent right now, and has been for a while.

I do agree with you about her behavior in Asia this fall. If she's going to act/play like that, then there's no reason to be on court. Let players who actually give a shit about their careers play some matches.

The Daviator
Oct 22nd, 2006, 08:55 PM
Venus and Serena are supposed to play 17 tournaments a year, according to their published schedules. But we know how that goes.

Lindsay has turned into what she used to hate - part-time tennis players who spend more time hanging out with Hollywood hot-shots than on a tennis court.

And this forum has turned into Williams Tennis Association, at least, the attitudes are the same. "She's happy, so who cares! She can still beat anyone! She's really injured, but she'll be back strong!"

1. That's nice that she's happy, and it's her life, etc. But she is a professional tennis player. This is her job. She's supposed to be on court, working. If you only worked 8 weeks out of the year, and do a half-assed job part of the time, you're not doing your job well. If she's so unhappy that she doesn't want to train, or show up at tournaments, then quit, and go hang out with Gwen more.

2. She can't just step on court and beat anyone anymore. So yeah, her seedings really do matter at this stage.

3. She's not injured right now. If anyone actually believes that, then yeah...

I'm sure she'll be back for Indian Wells, though!

I don't know what fantasy world you're living in where noble tennis players 'do their job' and play full schedules, and see the world, and meet their fans...

Name me the top players that play from one end of the year to the next? Clijsters, Dementieva, oh, and before this year, Davenport! That's it, she missed a lot of the year due to some injuries, unless you think she was lying and would forsake her best shot at winning a Slam again (Wimbledon) in favour of a sun holiday, that I highly doubt...

I do accept your point that having missed most of the year it wasn't a smart move to quit the season, especially since she's healthy, and that she could have made up somewhat for the break in the spring/summer by playing Stuttgart/Zurich, but maybe she's not coming back? Maybe she's just waiting until the season is over to announce her retirement, who knows...

At the end of the day, even with a terrible ranking, there are only a small group of players that can beat her, the Slam champs, and maybe one or two others, on a good day, the only difference that the ranking makes is that she'll lose to these players in the round of 32 as opposed to the quarter-finals, not much of a difference...

mike/topgun
Oct 22nd, 2006, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by Andrew..
The "she's not the player she used to be" line is crap. True, she's not had those results, but I firmly believe that's of her own doing. I don't think she's putting in the work required, both on court and off, to be a top level tennis player. Her natural talent is immense. She can be top ten for another five years on her ball striking alone. She's wasting her talent right now, and has been for a while.

Wait...where have you been since Wimbledon final last year? I
t was clear, that after the back injury, she was not serving or movin' nearly as well as she did in the first part of 2005, or let alone 2004. And it's not going to get better with her body shape, and attitude. I do agree with you, but sometimes you tend to over-criticise players you should support.;)
Here's the problem with Lindsay - she doesn't know what she wants. To play good tennis, and most importantly, to have fun on court, one needs to practise hard and commit!
But aren't we expecting too much of her...? That's what I ask basically.:shrug:

MH0861
Oct 22nd, 2006, 10:27 PM
Lindsay soldiered on in 2004 and 2005 solely to win another slam, not to win Tier II titles anymore. I'm sure 2005 fucked her up mentally more than we know - it had to be tough to lose the AO and Wimby finals the way she did, get injured, and have that crap match against Dementieva at the US Open. Then she blows a lead against JHH in Australia this year.

That's why she didn't rush back to the tour once she got injured around March, and then she fell. She rushed back in time for the US Open, gets injured in New Haven, and loses to her nemesis in straight sets at the Open.

She's battered and beaten mentally, even if she never admits it. She followed through on her commitment to play in Beijing, and probably couldn't care less, because of all the dissapointment. She played for the slams, and she realizes her best chances have slipped through her fingers.

I'd like to see her work hard during the off season, come back in shape and ready to play in Australia. Whether that happens remains to be seen - she's getting older, she's not as good as she used to be, and it's hard to come to terms with the fact you may not be good enough anymore. I can't blame her if she doesn't want to continue playing, but yes, I would like a decision. I at one point said I'd just like to see her playing on court, but I think it's also hard for all of us to come to grip with the fact that she may not be a contender for all the glory she deserves anymore. I thought she was through winning slams in 2003, and was pleasantly surprised to find her a contender again in '04 and '05.

I would have preferred she played this fall - where her game flourishes - so her ranking would be cushioned in case she plays next year. If she doesn't believe she can beat the best and she's not willing to work hard to beat the best, it doesn't matter if she's ranked 1, 4, 10 or 28 - she won't get that slam, and I'm not sure I want to see her hanging around.

That said, the GEE helps - Lindsay would have played more events this year if she had it, no question. The reason why she needs it is because her body is fragile, and her mind is even more weary - and she's not capable of planning her tennis career months in advance like the 18-21 year old crowd. In a perfect world, I want her to get back in shape, be motivated, and use the GEE only to get into, say, Montreal (Well, Toronto in '07) or Zurich because she changes her mind and it's too late to get in.

Lindsayfan32
Oct 23rd, 2006, 07:14 AM
Lindsay soldiered on in 2004 and 2005 solely to win another slam, not to win Tier II titles anymore. I'm sure 2005 fucked her up mentally more than we know - it had to be tough to lose the AO and Wimby finals the way she did, get injured, and have that crap match against Dementieva at the US Open. Then she blows a lead against JHH in Australia this year.

That's why she didn't rush back to the tour once she got injured around March, and then she fell. She rushed back in time for the US Open, gets injured in New Haven, and loses to her nemesis in straight sets at the Open.

She's battered and beaten mentally, even if she never admits it. She followed through on her commitment to play in Beijing, and probably couldn't care less, because of all the dissapointment. She played for the slams, and she realizes her best chances have slipped through her fingers.

I'd like to see her work hard during the off season, come back in shape and ready to play in Australia. Whether that happens remains to be seen - she's getting older, she's not as good as she used to be, and it's hard to come to terms with the fact you may not be good enough anymore. I can't blame her if she doesn't want to continue playing, but yes, I would like a decision. I at one point said I'd just like to see her playing on court, but I think it's also hard for all of us to come to grip with the fact that she may not be a contender for all the glory she deserves anymore. I thought she was through winning slams in 2003, and was pleasantly surprised to find her a contender again in '04 and '05.

I would have preferred she played this fall - where her game flourishes - so her ranking would be cushioned in case she plays next year. If she doesn't believe she can beat the best and she's not willing to work hard to beat the best, it doesn't matter if she's ranked 1, 4, 10 or 28 - she won't get that slam, and I'm not sure I want to see her hanging around.

That said, the GEE helps - Lindsay would have played more events this year if she had it, no question. The reason why she needs it is because her body is fragile, and her mind is even more weary - and she's not capable of planning her tennis career months in advance like the 18-21 year old crowd. In a perfect world, I want her to get back in shape, be motivated, and use the GEE only to get into, say, Montreal (Well, Toronto in '07) or Zurich because she changes her mind and it's too late to get in.


Finally someone who thinks like me. I totally agree with your whole post MH086 I was really starting to think I was the only one who thought this way.

LethalLindsay
Oct 23rd, 2006, 03:04 PM
Lindsay soldiered on in 2004 and 2005 solely to win another slam, not to win Tier II titles anymore. I'm sure 2005 fucked her up mentally more than we know - it had to be tough to lose the AO and Wimby finals the way she did, get injured, and have that crap match against Dementieva at the US Open. Then she blows a lead against JHH in Australia this year.

That's why she didn't rush back to the tour once she got injured around March, and then she fell. She rushed back in time for the US Open, gets injured in New Haven, and loses to her nemesis in straight sets at the Open.

She's battered and beaten mentally, even if she never admits it. She followed through on her commitment to play in Beijing, and probably couldn't care less, because of all the dissapointment. She played for the slams, and she realizes her best chances have slipped through her fingers.

I'd like to see her work hard during the off season, come back in shape and ready to play in Australia. Whether that happens remains to be seen - she's getting older, she's not as good as she used to be, and it's hard to come to terms with the fact you may not be good enough anymore. I can't blame her if she doesn't want to continue playing, but yes, I would like a decision. I at one point said I'd just like to see her playing on court, but I think it's also hard for all of us to come to grip with the fact that she may not be a contender for all the glory she deserves anymore. I thought she was through winning slams in 2003, and was pleasantly surprised to find her a contender again in '04 and '05.

I would have preferred she played this fall - where her game flourishes - so her ranking would be cushioned in case she plays next year. If she doesn't believe she can beat the best and she's not willing to work hard to beat the best, it doesn't matter if she's ranked 1, 4, 10 or 28 - she won't get that slam, and I'm not sure I want to see her hanging around.

That said, the GEE helps - Lindsay would have played more events this year if she had it, no question. The reason why she needs it is because her body is fragile, and her mind is even more weary - and she's not capable of planning her tennis career months in advance like the 18-21 year old crowd. In a perfect world, I want her to get back in shape, be motivated, and use the GEE only to get into, say, Montreal (Well, Toronto in '07) or Zurich because she changes her mind and it's too late to get in.


nOPE YOU ARE WRONG.................I THINK THIS WAY TOO!

Jack
Oct 24th, 2006, 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Jack
When did she "disappear"? During the period of time that she wasn't playing, the media was in contact with her to ask about her return.


No. Nobdy knew WTF was going on with her until the summer hardcourts. Her "head injury" didn't even hit the media until the LA Times wrote briefly about it after Wimbledon.

The concussion happened in June, we found out in July. To me, that's soon enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Would you prefer she show up to an event when she doesn't feel she can compete and give a tank job?


She does that, anyway.



Doesn't answer my question.

Incidentally, I'm not familiar with her tanking matches; perhaps you could elaborate.

MH0861
Oct 24th, 2006, 04:45 AM
Incidentally, I'm not familiar with her tanking matches; perhaps you could elaborate.

*DEAD*

See: Wimbledon 04, Australian Open 05, Australian Open 06.

mike/topgun
Oct 24th, 2006, 07:49 AM
Lindsay's pretty good at tanking, actually:p

LethalLindsay
Oct 24th, 2006, 03:17 PM
*DEAD*

See: Wimbledon 04, Australian Open 05, Australian Open 06.


Australian Open 05 - ABSOLUTE EXHAUSTION, NO TANKING

Australian Open 06 - ANKLE INJURY, COULD NOT PUSH OFF ON SERVE OR RUN. NO TANKING

Wimbledon 04 - HATE TO SAY IT AND I AM THE LAST PERSON TO EVER SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT LINDSAY UNFAIRLY (YES< UNFAIRLY PEOPLE!!!!!!!) ,
BUT I GOTTA GIVE YOU THIS ONE. I TRULY THINK THAT AFTER LOSING THE 2ND SET SHE GOT REALLY DISHEARTENED AND LET IT SLIP.

MH0861
Oct 24th, 2006, 03:22 PM
Australian Open 05 - ABSOLUTE EXHAUSTION, NO TANKING

Australian Open 06 - ANKLE INJURY, COULD NOT PUSH OFF ON SERVE OR RUN. NO TANKING

Wimbledon 04 - HATE TO SAY IT AND I AM THE LAST PERSON TO EVER SAY A BAD WORD ABOUT LINDSAY UNFAIRLY (YES< UNFAIRLY PEOPLE!!!!!!!) ,
BUT I GOTTA GIVE YOU THIS ONE. I TRULY THINK THAT AFTER LOSING THE 2ND SET SHE GOT REALLY DISHEARTENED AND LET IT SLIP.

She died in the AO final after wasting a million BPs in the second set, and getting broken at 3-4. A switch didn't go off at that point from playing competitively with Serena to dying.

In 2006, she was playing with an ankle injury the whole time, and still won the first set 6-2. She misses an easy shot early on in the second and dies. Again.

She also tanked in Beijing and Bali this year.

I love Lindsay as much as the next person, but let's also keep it real here.

The Daviator
Oct 24th, 2006, 04:36 PM
She died in the AO final after wasting a million BPs in the second set, and getting broken at 3-4. A switch didn't go off at that point from playing competitively with Serena to dying.

In 2006, she was playing with an ankle injury the whole time, and still won the first set 6-2. She misses an easy shot early on in the second and dies. Again.

She also tanked in Beijing and Bali this year.

I love Lindsay as much as the next person, but let's also keep it real here.

I think she was drained and exhausted before the AO final even began, but it was the adrenaline and/or the occasion that made her perform in the first set, which let's face it, she would not have won had Serena not thrown in all those light serves :o She probably knew that she needed to win in two sets, and once she lost her chance to do that (all the bps) her body probably started to feel much weaker and then, well, we all know what happened...

At the AO this year, she played poorly, but it wasn't a tank, just because you win the first set doesn't mean you have the match in the bag, and let's not forget that Henin was playing terrible tennis too, it was a pretty poor match from start to finish actually, Henin just raised her level slightly to win...

Wimbledon '04, there is no doubt :tape:

MH0861
Oct 24th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I think she was drained and exhausted before the AO final even began, but it was the adrenaline and/or the occasion that made her perform in the first set, which let's face it, she would not have won had Serena not thrown in all those light serves :o She probably knew that she needed to win in two sets, and once she lost her chance to do that (all the bps) her body probably started to feel much weaker and then, well, we all know what happened...

At the AO this year, she played poorly, but it wasn't a tank, just because you win the first set doesn't mean you have the match in the bag, and let's not forget that Henin was playing terrible tennis too, it was a pretty poor match from start to finish actually, Henin just raised her level slightly to win...

Wimbledon '04, there is no doubt :tape:

I agree she was tired, and she benefited from Serena's injury early on - but from 4-0 in the first, after her injury timeout, there were no breaks of serve through 4-3 in the second. But, she tanked because she was tired and thought she couldn't win, right?

Okay, the AO 06 isn't as bad, because the third set was competitive for a while, but she let JHH back into the match and fell apart mentally in the second.

LethalLindsay
Oct 24th, 2006, 05:03 PM
I think she was drained and exhausted before the AO final even began, but it was the adrenaline and/or the occasion that made her perform in the first set, which let's face it, she would not have won had Serena not thrown in all those light serves :o She probably knew that she needed to win in two sets, and once she lost her chance to do that (all the bps) her body probably started to feel much weaker and then, well, we all know what happened...

At the AO this year, she played poorly, but it wasn't a tank, just because you win the first set doesn't mean you have the match in the bag, and let's not forget that Henin was playing terrible tennis too, it was a pretty poor match from start to finish actually, Henin just raised her level slightly to win...

Wimbledon '04, there is no doubt :tape:



Totally, awesomely correct and thanks for the back up. Your extended explanations of my point were far more eloquent!

As for keeping it real. I don't think that COMPLETELY ignoring obvios physical impairments to blame someone for a "tank" based on information you don't have IS keeping it real! Maybe it's just me.................

LethalLindsay
Oct 24th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I agree she was tired, and she benefited from Serena's injury early on - but from 4-0 in the first, after her injury timeout, there were no breaks of serve through 4-3 in the second. But, she tanked because she was tired and thought she couldn't win, right?

No. She lost because she was completely and utterly done! That does not mean you tanked because you think you can't win!


Okay, the AO 06 isn't as bad, because the third set was competitive for a while, but she let JHH back into the match and fell apart mentally in the second.

Absolutely incorrect. She was having SO many problems pushing off on her ankle for both the serve and her groundies. I mean she was hitting her missed serves into the stands when JHH would return them and was screaming! Then when she finally won the game to go to 5-3 she threw out her hand as if to say, if I could serve like this without the ankle pain this would be how easy it would be!

MH0861
Oct 24th, 2006, 05:26 PM
Absolutely incorrect. She was having SO many problems pushing off on her ankle for both the serve and her groundies. I mean she was hitting her missed serves into the stands when JHH would return them and was screaming! Then when she finally won the game to go to 5-3 she threw out her hand as if to say, if I could serve like this without the ankle pain this would be how easy it would be!

Well, in my opinion, she totally lost belief she could win the match as soon as she got down in the second. That, to me, is tanking - she got rocked in the second and third sets. Of course she was injured, and maybe it affected her, but I think it played a bigger part mentally. Maybe she was just being nice after the match, but didn't she also say the ankle didn't contribute to her loss?

Tanking = Having no belief you can win the match. I am by no means Anti-Lindsay, nor am I usually negative about her, but I'm calling a spade a spade here. She HAS tanked before.

LethalLindsay
Oct 24th, 2006, 05:43 PM
Well you are right about one thing............................we are all entitled to our own opinion!

pierce0415
Oct 24th, 2006, 06:16 PM
Linds will play Hong Kong in 2007
I think this is just another way to tell Larry Scott, I can play without playing WTA tournament :lol:

Jack
Oct 30th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Tanking = Having no belief you can win the match. I am by no means Anti-Lindsay, nor am I usually negative about her, but I'm calling a spade a spade here. She HAS tanked before.


Tanking is defined as not making an effort or intentionally losing a match. Lindsay has always had problems with self-confidence and her belief that she could win matches. That's not tanking; that's choking. It's not that she isn't trying, it's that the mental pressure becomes too much for her to withstand.

Lindsayfan32
Oct 30th, 2006, 09:17 PM
Linds will play Hong Kong in 2007
I think this is just another way to tell Larry Scott, I can play without playing WTA tournament :lol:

I don't think that's the case the only other tournament Lindsay could play the same week as Hong Kong is the hopman cup and the New Zealand event she can't play as she is on the banned list for it.

Andrew..
Oct 30th, 2006, 11:57 PM
Tanking is defined as not making an effort or intentionally losing a match. Lindsay has always had problems with self-confidence and her belief that she could win matches. That's not tanking; that's choking. It's not that she isn't trying, it's that the mental pressure becomes too much for her to withstand.
Even by that definition, Wimbledon 2004 was a tank. And so was the AO 2005. The end.

LethalLindsay
Oct 31st, 2006, 12:48 AM
Even by that definition, Wimbledon 2004 was a choke. And so was the AO 2005. The end.

2005 AO ............NOT A CHOKE!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR..............

Andrew..
Oct 31st, 2006, 12:51 AM
Oops. Didn't mean to say that. Edited.

Jack
Oct 31st, 2006, 03:26 AM
Even by that definition, Wimbledon 2004 was a tank. And so was the AO 2005.


She didn't intentionally lose either match. She choked in both. Badly.

MH0861
Oct 31st, 2006, 03:47 AM
She didn't intentionally lose either match. She choked in both. Badly.

She choked when the goings got dicey in the second sets of both matches. She lost the third set in the AO 05 in less than 20 minutes. Did you see either match? She intentionally gave up in both (Yes, she was extremely fatigued in Australia, but she gave up because she was so tired).

Lindsayfan32
Oct 31st, 2006, 07:23 AM
Why does the past matter so much to most you. What's in the past is in the past so leave it there. Let look to the future and try to be positive about it too. There is what too much negative stuff on this board for my liking so let start the new new on a positive note. I don't think I'm asking for too much I am ?

LethalLindsay
Oct 31st, 2006, 10:48 AM
Why does the past matter so much to most you. What's in the past is in the past so leave it there. Let look to the future and try to be positive about it too. There is what too much negative stuff on this board for my liking so let start the new new on a positive note. I don't think I'm asking for too much I am ?


Amen to that! She neither choked NOR tanked the 2005 AO she was EXHAUSTED!

MH0861
Oct 31st, 2006, 12:05 PM
Why does the past matter so much to most you. What's in the past is in the past so leave it there. Let look to the future and try to be positive about it too. There is what too much negative stuff on this board for my liking so let start the new new on a positive note. I don't think I'm asking for too much I am ?

It's a discussion board. We discuss things. It happens to be a tennis discussion board. The majority of things to talk about are past results, especially when Lindsay isn't playing right now. We can talk about happy topics too, like '99 Wimbledon or something if you want. :) :)

mike/topgun
Oct 31st, 2006, 06:48 PM
Who said Lindsay choked the Oz final:weirdo:

She was COMPLETELY EXHAUSTED.

I agree, that she choked the Wimbledon semi, but if you consider the fact she was near making the "final decision"(night phone calls to Jon, and so on..) you could say it was not that bad after all...

No matter what people say - Lindsay is a true CHAMPION and a FIGHTER.:)

Let's take on a different subject;)

Andrew..
Nov 1st, 2006, 12:28 AM
Who said Lindsay choked the Oz final:weirdo:

She was COMPLETELY EXHAUSTED.

I agree, that she choked the Wimbledon semi, but if you consider the fact she was near making the "final decision"(night phone calls to Jon, and so on..) you could say it was not that bad after all...

No matter what people say - Lindsay is a true CHAMPION and a FIGHTER.:)
Lolz. Funniest post of the day, on multiple levels.

MH0861
Nov 1st, 2006, 12:54 AM
Who said Lindsay choked the Oz final:weirdo:

She was COMPLETELY EXHAUSTED.

I agree, that she choked the Wimbledon semi, but if you consider the fact she was near making the "final decision"(night phone calls to Jon, and so on..) you could say it was not that bad after all...

No matter what people say - Lindsay is a true CHAMPION and a FIGHTER.:)

Let's take on a different subject;)

She was completely exhausted and still went toe to toe with Serena through 6-2 3-3. She should have broken in that set, and then she got broken after being up 40-0 in the 7th game. Then she completely, 100% died.

How is that not choking? She was a mere 3 games from the championship, and collapsed while the finish line was in sight. Yes, she played many grueling singles matches prior to this, and made the doubles final, and was no doubt drained - but the fact that the final was competitive until she got broken and she expended no effort whatsoever after that deserves no excuses in my book. If she was that tired, she would have lost 6-1 6-0. After Serena got treatment, she played well and it was still close. I was embarassed for her performance.

I'm not normally negative about the past or things like this, but I've never been so dissapointed with her effort and performance (or lack thereof) before or after this.

Oh, and really, really thinking about retirement does not excuse that pathetic 3rd set against Sharapova either.

Andrew..
Nov 1st, 2006, 01:09 AM
Both of those were bad, and you pretty much summed up the AO situation in your post. If she was so "exhausted", she would have gotten her ass kicked from the start. She came out playing solid tennis, and completely died by the end of the second set. I've never seen a player tank in a slam final like that. Ever.

Wimbledon 04 was probably worse though. She was like, laughing at Sharapova's winners in the third set. Again, had zero intention of winning that match when she stepped on court in the third set.

LethalLindsay
Nov 1st, 2006, 01:12 AM
Both of those were bad, and you pretty much summed up the AO situation in your post. If she was so "exhausted", she would have gotten her ass kicked from the start. She came out playing solid tennis, and completely died by the end of the second set. I've never seen a player tank in a slam final like that. Ever.

Wimbledon 04 was probably worse though. She was like, laughing at Sharapova's winners in the third set. Again, had zero intention of winning that match when she stepped on court in the third set.

Unfortunately I disagree (surprise of all surprises) she WAS exhausted from the start and that's EXACTLY why she came out swinging like a mad woman for the fences because she knew she had to win in two. After the energy was gone and serena prolonged the points more it was over

LethalLindsay
Nov 1st, 2006, 01:18 AM
And as much as it pains me to write it.........you are absolutely correct about 2004 wimby

The Daviator
Nov 1st, 2006, 01:29 AM
Both of those were bad, and you pretty much summed up the AO situation in your post. If she was so "exhausted", she would have gotten her ass kicked from the start. She came out playing solid tennis, and completely died by the end of the second set. I've never seen a player tank in a slam final like that. Ever.

Wimbledon 04 was probably worse though. She was like, laughing at Sharapova's winners in the third set. Again, had zero intention of winning that match when she stepped on court in the third set.

Why would anyone give zero effort when playing in their first Slam final in 5 years? If she didn't give a damn, she would have lost to Molik in the 1/4s, I just don't buy it, it's like you guys are saying that in the second set she just decided she didn't want to win the Australian Open for some reason, and tanked...

She was exhausted beforehand, and knew she needed to win in two, Serena, fair play to her, hung with Lindsay, and won that epic game (even though she was given an ace at deuce that was out :o ) and once she got the break, Lindsay knew that it would be difficult to win, and everything probably started to ache and feel weak at that point, that's what happens in sport, adrenaline is a crazy thing, it covers up all sorts of ailments/problems, but only for so long...

Wimbledon 2004, everyone is on the same page :o

hurricanejeanne
Nov 1st, 2006, 01:45 AM
Ugh.
Wimbledon 2004 semifinal is the one match that to this day makes my stomach turn. She had that match won, before and after than rain delay. She was 2 points (I think) from the win in second set tiebreak. And she died in the third set. Just evaporated. It was like watching a train wreck. It's easily the one match I'd like to have back, including those slam finals.

Australian Open 2005. Yuck.
You guys have covered it on all bases. That one was disgusting. While I do believe she was tired, emotionally and physically, she still put herself in a position to win that match and she got tight at the biggest stage of the match. She had tons of breakpoints, and then game points on her next service game and then...
But Wimbledon '04 takes the cake.

MH0861
Nov 1st, 2006, 02:22 AM
Why would anyone give zero effort when playing in their first Slam final in 5 years?

That's what I want to know. That's why I was so freaking pissed with her. I watched with a group of friends live and I was so embarrased for her. :o It wasn't that she was simply outplayed - I can deal with that - but her attitude was disgusting, and we hadn't seen it in so long until then.

If she didn't give a damn, she would have lost to Molik in the 1/4s, I just don't buy it, it's like you guys are saying that in the second set she just decided she didn't want to win the Australian Open for some reason, and tanked...

In my mind, she wanted to win, but she wasn't willing to compete or fight for it anymore. She fought well against Molik and Dechy, and she gave up. She was close. And then fell apart. As I said before, it's not like she was dead tired and lost 6-1 6-0.. she was right in it until the mere second one thing went wrong, and she gave up. I don't think she should be excused or given a "freebie" for this one.

She was exhausted beforehand, and knew she needed to win in two, Serena, fair play to her, hung with Lindsay, and won that epic game (even though she was given an ace at deuce that was out :o ) and once she got the break, Lindsay knew that it would be difficult to win, and everything probably started to ache and feel weak at that point, that's what happens in sport, adrenaline is a crazy thing, it covers up all sorts of ailments/problems, but only for so long...

I agree. :) I just wish she atleast tried to win after the adrenaline wore off.

michael j magill
Nov 1st, 2006, 04:32 PM
The powers that run things should cut lindsay some slack she has more than earned the right to pick where and when she plays.

Lindsayfan32
Nov 1st, 2006, 06:40 PM
The powers that run things should cut lindsay some slack she has more than earned the right to pick where and when she plays.

Totally agree with you on this one Michael you only have to look at what Lindsay given the tour over a 15 year career to know that but the powers that be see it other wise.

mike/topgun
Nov 1st, 2006, 07:15 PM
You can't even compare the 2004 Wimbledon semi choke job to the Oz final...
Lindsay was playing both singles and doubles, fighting through some tough, tough matches...was not playing great. Serena is no 'pushover', she hung inn the 2nd set, served well enough to save those bp. Lindsay collapsed physically and mentally in the next game when she blew the 40-0 lead.:tape: it wasn't a choke, cos Serena played really well(must admit that after the 1st set 'injury' she played like a true champ), it was not a tank, cos Lindsay put 'some' effort in winnig:rolleyes: and even if she was 100% physicaly, she would have problems with closing out this match. It was Serena out there, not Momo, or 'sick' Juju.

lindsayno1
Nov 2nd, 2006, 10:12 PM
i cant believe i stayed up til like 2am to watch taht AO final, i was so ill as well. I was like WTF!