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View Full Version : Player's who can only defeat themselves


go hingis
Oct 5th, 2006, 05:09 AM
I constantly read about players who can only lose if they defeat themselves. I personally think it's a load of Bullshit. All the pro players can play great tennis and hit winners all over the court. This theory could be placed on evey point in every match. "she didn't beat me, I made the mistake" "I hit the wrong shot" "My feet weren't in position" etc

The top players are winning most of their matches because their opponents make way too many errors, are nervous etc but we never say how world no.110 defeated themselves by making too many errors against world no.1 but if world no.1 loses in the exact same fashion they defeated themselves.

What does everyone else think?

Mightymirza
Oct 5th, 2006, 05:23 AM
well yeah every player is beatable..Plus its also mental, some players can break you down and hence you start going for too much..

go hingis
Oct 5th, 2006, 05:36 AM
well yeah every player is beatable..Plus its also mental, some players can break you down and hence you start going for too much..

I agree, that's why I'm sick of hearing people/players say they only lost because of their own mistakes. That they defeated themselves.

tennnisfannn
Oct 5th, 2006, 06:30 AM
are you seriously saying ai beat hinigs at wimby, when a p[layer like hingis who never makes a tonne of errors does so, surely she contibutes to her own loss and so it is with serena. when venus lost a tough three setter to lindsay at the LA final with a scoreline of 5/7 7/5 6/7 with about 77 errors, who really lost that match. with that may errors lindsay should have won in two.
I still believ it depends on the match and on the day. some times players beat themselves, sometimes they are beaten.

kittyking
Oct 5th, 2006, 06:32 AM
I think its definately possible for players to defeat themselves (especially from pressure and stress) however I feel far to many players just have big egos and when they are clearly being outplayed they just blame it on a sore toe or cold

vwfan
Oct 5th, 2006, 08:31 PM
well, hingis certainly doesn't typically beat herself. she plays nearly perfect form tennis.

thus, she is always outplayed when beaten. :devil:

LH2HBH
Oct 5th, 2006, 08:32 PM
A loss is a loss. If you didn't win then you lost, in my opinion!

SAEKeithSerena
Oct 5th, 2006, 08:43 PM
serena tends to beat herself a lot...

Task
Oct 5th, 2006, 08:43 PM
No such thing. The winner is the winner. The loser is the loser.

Until human cloning becomes a reality and the scoreboard has two identical names on it, a player will never truly beat themself.

Vass22
Oct 5th, 2006, 08:54 PM
When i say that a player "defeated herself" i mean that:
1. She is capable of much more than the losing performance that she gave.
2. That she played a atypically bad match.
3. In that given match that player might have suddenly lost the level of tennis and choked.

denisgiann
Oct 5th, 2006, 09:09 PM
It doesn matter what you can generally do on the court.If the given day you cant bring it,then you will lose.I dont care if you are a slam winner,if you have problems, or if your cat died the day before.If your level is lower than your opponent you ll lose.All those "i beat myself" bullshit are exactly that.Bullshit.Can you bring it that day? Good.No?Τhen go to you home and cry a river.

jenny161185
Oct 5th, 2006, 09:54 PM
I beat myself :)

supergrunt
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:04 PM
Its obvious your talking about Serena :rolleyes: really though she does beat herself. She is not playing her best and when she makes so many ue's it is hard to say that she didn't beat herself. :)

supergrunt
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:10 PM
Plus Serena admitted that she has been beaten before. She said that she could "count the times" that she "had been beaten."

SerenaSlam
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:25 PM
No such thing. The winner is the winner. The loser is the loser.

Until human cloning becomes a reality and the scoreboard has two identical names on it, a player will never truly beat themself.
yeah there is always stiill a winner and a loser, that is a given.

but let me throw a good example.

venus/serena didn't loose, but it was the AUS 03 doubles final, and they were playing horrible making mistakes left and right, down a set and a break in the third and like 5 chances to go down 2 breaks. they were playing horrible, clearly beating themselves.

I think Pam Shriver said it best, that its just trouble for Vivi/Suarez b/c for the sisters to be this off and the match still close!

it just shows you how much of a match is in their hands, how they actually decide matches. and that was a perfect example that had they kept it up they were on their way to beating themselves, but they got it together, it was their game that got them down and picked them up to end it.

and for serena especially, i don't care what it is, when serena loses it is b/c of serena. not that player. maybe when serena was coming up, but 2002 on, serena is serena folk, if she loses is either fitness injury or errors all over the place, and w/ that said its still a 3set match.

LH2HBH
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Part of tennis is mentally figuring out how to win. If you didn't do that then the other player must have been better than you that day.

RJWCapriati
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:29 PM
There shouldn't be excuses.......you lose....well you lose!!!

supergrunt
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:29 PM
yeah there is always stiill a winner and a loser, that is a given.

but let me throw a good example.

venus/serena didn't loose, but it was the AUS 03 doubles final, and they were playing horrible making mistakes left and right, down a set and a break in the third and like 5 chances to go down 2 breaks. they were playing horrible, clearly beating themselves.

I think Pam Shriver said it best, that its just trouble for Vivi/Suarez b/c for the sisters to be this off and the match still close!

it just shows you how much of a match is in their hands, how they actually decide matches. and that was a perfect example that had they kept it up they were on their way to beating themselves, but they got it together, it was their game that got them down and picked them up to end it.

and for serena especially, i don't care what it is, when serena loses it is b/c of serena. not that player. maybe when serena was coming up, but 2002 on, serena is serena folk, if she loses is either fitness injury or errors all over the place, and w/ that said its still a 3set match.

Most sense someone ahs made in post in a while :bigclap: !

No.1Hingis
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:37 PM
A loss is a loss and a win just that.. so.. I really think the fact who beat herself or who was beaten by dont know what player.. is just a detail.. You can be injured, sick, tired or just your oponnent played better.. What.. that fact in tennis really doesnt matter .. why?.. cause all player have status and their quality is not on discussion some are better than another.. period.. but if you are not fit.. well certainly in some point you will be vulnerable as almost every player.. or those low player would wanna to improve .. credit to who deserve it.. not excuses and better luck playing their best next time.. tennis players are not machine control by tv .. is pretty much complicated that buy and umpire into football...

The Daviator
Oct 5th, 2006, 10:52 PM
are you seriously saying ai beat hinigs at wimby, when a p[layer like hingis who never makes a tonne of errors does so, surely she contibutes to her own loss and so it is with serena. when venus lost a tough three setter to lindsay at the LA final with a scoreline of 5/7 7/5 6/7 with about 77 errors, who really lost that match. with that may errors lindsay should have won in two.
I still believ it depends on the match and on the day. some times players beat themselves, sometimes they are beaten.

Well, clearly Lindsay won the match, because she did a better job than Venus at keeping the ball in play and getting it over the net, ditto for Ai :)

StarDuvallGrant
Oct 5th, 2006, 11:48 PM
I agree, that's why I'm sick of hearing people/players say they only lost because of their own mistakes. That they defeated themselves.

I know what you mean. I got sick and tired of hearing that players only won because of intimidation factor.

Zauber
Oct 6th, 2006, 05:43 AM
I totally agree.
in a one on one game.
one players game is very dependent on the other.
Its like a boxing match.
Boxers never say i knocked myself out.
it is simply to bizarre.
But pretty similar if you think about it.
of course you can make mistakes and get knocked out but most of the credit still goes to the guy you scored the knock out
He was simply better on that day.

Zauber
Oct 6th, 2006, 05:48 AM
oh and its alot simpler to get knocked out by one mistake in a boxing match.
But in tennis you got beaten for at least 40 minutes
Face it the other gallll guy was simply better for 40 minutes.

Si_Hi
Oct 6th, 2006, 05:53 AM
A loss is a loss. If you didn't win then you lost, in my opinion!
yes, that's right! :yeah:

Orion
Oct 6th, 2006, 08:21 AM
If a player doesn't play at their best, and lose, it's not a case of beating themselves. It's a case of an opponent capitalizing on a weakness.

Example: Steffi Graf's forehand was a huge weapon. The way Sabatini got under Graf's skin during that win streak in the early 90's was this: she happened to face Graf on days when her forehand wasn't hitting great, and then played on the fact that Graf's weapon was now a weakness.

So it is with any player. If Hingis' backhand is hitting errors at an unusually high rate (say, she actually HITS errors), and a player exploits that, Hingis didn't beat herself by having an off day, the opponent beat her by capitalizing on the off day. This same logic can be used for any big loss by a big-name player (Pironkova def. Venus, Sun def. Serena, Sugiyama def. Hingis) etc.

If you don't believe this, then would you say Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario never won a grandslam, her opponents just lost a bunch? Because that's how she played.

Polikarpov
Oct 6th, 2006, 09:15 AM
well, hingis certainly doesn't typically beat herself. she plays nearly perfect form tennis.

thus, she is always outplayed when beaten. :devil:

In my opinion, its better to lose knowing that your opponent played great tennis as opposed to losing when you know you can do much better. ;)