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Greenout
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:23 AM
http://www.observer.com/20060828/20060828_John_Koblin_pageone_newsstory7.asp

Some of this article is true, but it reeks of foreign player bashing to moi. Sure, Hingis is called charismatic here, but that's because she was gone so long that people like her now. Nadal is so hyped, and so is Roger, off course it's difficult for Elena D's to find herself in articles. I dont' find anything wrong with Amelie's answer in the final sentence - she doesn't want to trash talk. What's wrong with that?

The Boring Women of the Open
By John Koblin

Staring hard at the women’s draw on an oversized sign at the Pilot Pen tennis tournament last week in New Haven, Conn., Carol Nadel quietly mouthed some names to herself.

“There aren’t that many names I know,” said the 64-year-old fan. “Myskina—I know her. But I couldn’t pick her out of a line-up.”

It’s the story of women’s tennis. Like the draw here at the last warm-up tournament before the U.S. Open, the field isn’t so much weak as it is anonymous.

Just a few years ago, the women’s game was controlled by a set of first-class divas, a set of athletes the public knew simply as Serena, Venus, Jen, Monica and Martina.*

But most of those first names will be absent when the Open arrives in Flushing this week. Thanks to injuries, attrition and indifference, the dramatic running rivalries that used fuel the sport’s popularity are a thing of the past. Also gone are all the diva-driven dramatics that lured fans to Center Court every big Sunday.

As far as the current players are concerned, the marked decrease in crazy tennis dads, players bumping during changeovers and incidents of trash talking is a good thing.

“Trash-talking is over now,” said Wimbledon champ Amélie Mauresmo, her hair wet after stepping out of the shower after practice in New Haven. “Today, players might think something, but they won’t say it in public like they used to.”

“There’s a difference from a few years ago,” quietly observed Justine Henin-Hardenne, the five-time Grand Slam champion, clearly more uncomfortable than Mauresmo while answering questions from the local press. “There’s still a lot of conflict on the court, but off the court it’s probably better now.”*

But the dirty secret of women’s tennis is that it thrives on conflict.

In many ways, Henin-Hardenne’s ascendance the last three years reflects the change that women’s tennis has undergone, with the brash, outsized personalities of Venus Williams and Martina Hingis replaced by one of the most brooding, press-shy athletes in sports.***

“Back then, you had everything,” said L. Jon Wertheim, tennis reporter for Sports Illustrated, with more than a hint of wistfulness. “You had a racial component, a burnout component, a tragic back-story. It was like a sitcom, and everyone had an easily reducible role.*

“The buzz factor isn’t nearly what it was five years ago. It’s harder to get a grip on the sport. The sport thrives on these back-stories, and fans don’t know who they’re rooting for. Elena Dementieva is a perfectly pleasant person, but the average fan doesn’t have a grip on who she is.”

Put simply, today’s women players aren’t household names.

“You don’t say ‘Anastasia’ or ‘Elena’ and say, ‘Yeah!’” said NBC tennis analyst Bud Collins.*

Those first-name players pull the game up to its highest reaches. They brought the women into prime time for the U.S. Open final. They raised higher purses for tournaments. They were cover girls.

After several decades’ worth of domination at the hands of the men’s game, the television ratings for the women’s Grand Slam finals finally began to match—and oftentimes beat—the men’s finals’ ratings.

Sports columnists everywhere were suddenly speaking of the greater virtues of the women’s game: It had more rallies than the men’s game, and the good matches were a crisp two hours—the length of a college-basketball game.

Now those encomiums have been replaced by excuses.Chief among them this year—as cited in interviews with Women’s Tennis Association officials—seems to be that the women’s tour needs more Americans. But take one look at the men’s tour and that argument dissolves. The men’s game is experiencing a renaissance on the backs of two foreigners: the invincible Roger Federer and the handsome, exciting Rafael Nadal.*

In fact, the player who has the best chance to bring any buzz back to the women’s game is Russian-born Maria Sharapova— currently the highest-paid female in the history of sports. But for all of the Canon commercials and her squeaky-clean image, Sharapova still hasn’t won a Slam since her elegant 2004 slaying of Serena Williams at the Wimbledon final, at the age of 17.*

Which leaves Mauresmo and Henin-Hardenne as the closest thing to genuine stars that the W.T.A. has to offer.

*“Justine and Amélie are kind, they’re smart, but they’re also shy and not wildly outgoing,” said Anne Worcester, former chief executive of the W.T.A. and current director of the Pilot Pen Tournament in New Haven. “But when Venus Williams and Irina Spirlea bump each other, fans like that drama and they like that tension.”

Ms. Worcester was referring to the moment in the 1997 U.S. Open when Spirlea threw her shoulder into Williams’ body during a changeover. Williams’ father, Richard, reacted by calling Spirlea a “big, tall, white turkey” after the match.

Consider the world-famous diva of women’s tennis during its apex: five-time Grand Slam champ Martina Hingis. Her most absurd highlight was calling Mauresmo, one of the few openly gay players on tour, “half a man.” A close second was her appearance in the 1999 French Open final, when Hingis called a bathroom break in the middle of her final against Steffi Graf, returned from the locker room with a new outfit and hairstyle, smashed her racket into the clay at one moment, underhanded her serve on Graf’s match point, slapped a W.T.A. official when she left the court and burst into tears when the French Open crowd booed her during the trophy presentation.

“Tension off the court brings drama on the court,” said Ms. Worcester. “Martina Hingis was charismatic. She had that grin, she’s mischievous, and when she said something, you want to listen. Fans like that.”

The tour’s malaise is perhaps best personified in Venus and Serena Williams. The Williams sisters—love them or hate them—invited a massive amount of attention with their years-long domination of the sport. But now, at a time when the sisters should still be in the prime of their careers, Serena is barely ranked in the Top 100 and Venus is hurt, adding to the sense of a pervasive culture of injuries, absence and indifference around the tour.

“The players aren’t supporting the tour,” said NBC and CBS tennis analyst Mary Carillo. “Mauresmo has blown off the entire hard-court season. Then there are injuries and phony injuries—Clijsters is out for two months.*

“They don’t think about growing the game; they think about growing their bank account,” Ms. Carillo continued. “There’s been a recession for years, but the players don’t feel it. They’re making more. You can’t convince them that tennis is in trouble. They can’t feel it; their agents can’t feel it. They’re living in an entirely different reality.”*

Along with that is the loss of any true rivalry in the sport. Federer and Nadal have played each other five times this year. Years ago, Hingis and Venus Williams would play each other as many times. But with the biggest names withdrawing from tournaments or spreading to different warm-ups, there’s no chance for two players to establish a rivalry.

“It’s hard to build a brand here,” said Mr. Wertheim, the Sports Illustrated reporter. “After Sharapova beat Serena at Wimbledon, that was supposed to be the next great rivalry. I’m not sure they’ve played two times since then.”*

But perhaps there’s reason for hope: After retiring several years ago due to injuries— and her consistent failure against the Williams sisters—Hingis is making a comeback, and is entering the Open ranked ninth in the world and with a legitimate shot at making it into the final.

In an interview with Play, The New York Times’ quarterly sports magazine, Hingis was asked if the women’s side was tougher since she returned. She said no and, with her typical grace and sense of sportsmanship, cited Mauresmo’s success as Exhibit A for the decline in the game’s quality.*

On Sunday, while Mauresmo was signing balls and posters for fans, she was told by a reporter what Hingis had said.*

Her hand immediately froze. Her face tightened. Her chin twitched.* But, in keeping with the times, she quickly regained her composure.*

Answering a question about Hingis and her comeback, she said, “I think it’s quite amazing.”

There was no hint of sarcasm.

*



*(Anne W better shut up, and be damn greatful that they're even at her silly tournament in New Haven!!!!) :tape:

mike/topgun
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:56 AM
Very true article. I have nothing to add.:yeah:
The SPORT needs RIVALRY!!!!
Injuries, lack of charisma, lack of drama, lower quality, the withdrawals and still they earn more and more:rolls: that's just hilarious. Carillo is right. They live in a different reality. Everyone is so polite, like the score of a game was set before it even starts:haha:
Martina is a bigmouthed diva - she sometimes speaks her mind, and that was a good point about Amelie, who reacted with class.

And it's a pity that Masha Vs Serena didn't develope into a great rivalry.

saki
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:05 AM
Typical sexist article. Does anyone think Federer is too nice or too boring? No, they focus on his tennis. Justine and Amelie have brought variety and touch back to the top of womens' tennis but, obviously, that doesn't matter because they're women and they're only interested if they're having a cat fight.

borisy
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:33 AM
Yeah it's too boring according to them because the top players aren't American.

Who cares about what American Joes think about the non-American players?

pigam
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:37 AM
ugh!! what a disgusting article!
and am i reading that right? are some people (carillo) implying that players like Justine and Amélie don't support the WTATour?! :banghead:

It's simply absurd. If they would emphasize a bit more on the ABILITY of some of today's topplayers they wouldn't be so hung up about the lack of (sorry, but I call this:) "soapopera personnality. it isn't because you don't talk about singing, dancing and dating that you don't have a personnality. Let some players (belgian, french, russian, ...) talk in their mother tongue and make some others answer in a second language. let's see how exciting they would be.

Pfff, ridiculous article. Thx for posting anyway. ;)

Kimmi
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:44 AM
I agree about the rivalry bit, but that's about all.

I don't like Hingis making that comment about Amelie's success showing the sport is in decline. It's untrue and bang out of order. Rivalries are built on the court, not in the playground.

tennnisfannn
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:56 AM
Typical sexist article. Does anyone think Federer is too nice or too boring? No, they focus on his tennis. Justine and Amelie have brought variety and touch back to the top of womens' tennis but, obviously, that doesn't matter because they're women and they're only interested if they're having a cat fight.
Very well said. Aren't these the same guys who have been worshipping at the feet of Federer for so long they have not even noticed that besides nadal and roger himself having an off day, nobody else is going to win anything. Roger has made the likes of roddick and hewitt look very ordinary indeed. When the williams did that to their peers a while ago, they were accused of being 'too big, having a physical adv. which was deemed as unfair (nevermind that lindsay/jen were the recipients of these losses) etc
I do believe it is the same media who can build or destroy personality(look what they have done with maria), they should be out there building the tour not destrying it.
Nontheless i do agree that constant injuries have robbed us tennis fans of rivalries. We have waited 3 years to see a rematch between justine and venus.

pigam
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:00 AM
Typical sexist article. Does anyone think Federer is too nice or too boring? No, they focus on his tennis. Justine and Amelie have brought variety and touch back to the top of womens' tennis but, obviously, that doesn't matter because they're women and they're only interested if they're having a cat fight.
Very well said. Aren't these the same guys who have been worshipping at the feet of Federer for so long they have not even noticed that besides nadal and roger himself having an off day, nobody else is going to win anything. Roger has made the likes of roddick and hewitt look very ordinary indeed. When the williams did that to their peers a while ago, they were accused of being 'too big, having a physical adv. which was deemed as unfair (nevermind that lindsay/jen were the recipients of these losses) etc
I do believe it is the same media who can build or destroy personality(look what they have done with maria), they should be out there building the tour not destrying it.
Nontheless i do agree that constant injuries have robbed us tennis fans of rivalries. We have waited 3 years to see a rematch between justine and venus.
Very much agreed, and well put :yeah:

Petersmiler
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:07 AM
So Amelie and Justine aren't rivals?

Trust the americans to want to turn tennis into a soap opera!

Brian Stewart
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:08 AM
Funny, when the top women were metting each other on a regular basis in the business end of tournaments, the media portrayed it as a bad thing, saying it made the sport too predictable. But now that it's happening on the men's side, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Typical double-standard bs.

Shame on Wertheim for his terrible memory. Serena and Maria met 2 times within the next 6 months after her WImbledon triumph.

And what's this crap about the lack of marquee names? Are these people serious? Do they honestly think that Roger and Rafa are big stars in the U.S.? If they do, they need to be drug tested. The superstars in tennis, to the American sportsfan, are Williams(x2), Kournikova, Sharapova, Agassi Hingis, Navratilova, Seles, Capriati. The next level includes players like Davenport, Pierce, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Henin, Vaidisova. In fact, Kim pulls in bigger TV numbers in the states than any ATP player not named Agassi. So they have to watch which tour they're slamming, or someone might actually write the facts.

It would serve Worcester right if the players took offense and withdrew from her tourney.

And another tidbit from the memory hole: during the height of the "diva" period, weren't these same folks saying the women should get rid of all of the extraneous stuff and concentrate on tennis. Now that the elite players are doing just that, they get criticized again. Make up your minds, media.

Another sloppy, agenda-driven article.

Lindsayfan32
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:13 AM
Well I have to say this article is right on the money and top of all this a player of Lindsay stature wants to play in two tournements she wasn't orinally entered in one of which was lacking for stars and the tour goes for the rulebook over something that could've helped to grow the game. Larry Scott wonders why the tours stuffed maybe he should try listening to Lindsay more what she has to say makes alot of sense if he ever bothered to listen. Instead of telling reports how wrong she is. Lindsay keep standing up for what's right someone might listen to you.

pigam
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:14 AM
exactly! i remmebr "in those days" women players got sdlammed for being too much of catfighting tennagers. Now they talk about their winecollections, charities, skydiving, lots are trilingual and yet it's still not good :rolleyes:

Miranda
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:15 AM
its not nice if hingis really said that, momo beat her 2 times since her return and she still said momo's success is a decline :rolleyes: :confused:

GoDominique
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:24 AM
And what's this crap about the lack of marquee names? Are these people serious? Do they honestly think that Roger and Rafa are big stars in the U.S.? If they do, they need to be drug tested. The superstars in tennis, to the American sportsfan, are Williams(x2), Kournikova, Sharapova, Agassi Hingis, Navratilova, Seles, Capriati. The next level includes players like Davenport, Pierce, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Henin, Vaidisova. In fact, Kim pulls in bigger TV numbers in the states than any ATP player not named Agassi.Oh please.

For the millionth time you come up with your unproven WTA spin.
Any source for that last sentence? Oh right, you have none.
And Vaidisova more famous that Federer and Nadal? :rolls: No one has ever heard about her.
You might have forgotten about Roddick too btw.

Justine Fan
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:30 AM
Yeah it's too boring according to them because the top players aren't American.

Who cares about what American Joes think about the non-American players?

:yeah:

That's exactly what I thought when reading it! No Americans in the top 10, that's why! http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/rolleye/rolleye0001.gif

ASV_FAN
Aug 23rd, 2006, 12:00 PM
I don't think I could've put it better myself. The tour isn't marketable because there's too many "ova's" floating round the top 20, there's no distinction between players anymore. WTA now compared to when there was Seles, Venus, Serena, Lindsay, Martina, Jennifer, Arantxa just isn't as good. They were all so different that it created drama, much like a sitcom you couldn't wait for the next episode.

mike/topgun
Aug 23rd, 2006, 12:55 PM
I don't think I could've put it better myself. The tour isn't marketable because there's too many "ova's" floating round the top 20, there's no distinction between players anymore. WTA now compared to when there was Seles, Venus, Serena, Lindsay, Martina, Jennifer, Arantxa just isn't as good. They were all so different that it created drama, much like a sitcom you couldn't wait for the next episode.
So ypu're really the only poster here who agrees with me?;)
There wre more of personalities, and different game styl back in 1997-2001 period.
Now it's all the same crap - withdrawals vs withdrawals, and upcoming stars winning tier I events(Go Ana:yeah: ) while the top players are having vacations:tape:

Billabong
Aug 23rd, 2006, 01:00 PM
its not nice if hingis really said that, momo beat her 2 times since her return and she still said momo's success is a decline :rolleyes: :confused:

OMG Martina said that almost 8 years ago, at the start of 1999:rolleyes:... She matured a lot since then and wouldn't say things like that again..

olivia100
Aug 23rd, 2006, 01:11 PM
Funny, when the top women were metting each other on a regular basis in the business end of tournaments, the media portrayed it as a bad thing, saying it made the sport too predictable. But now that it's happening on the men's side, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Typical double-standard bs.

Shame on Wertheim for his terrible memory. Serena and Maria met 2 times within the next 6 months after her WImbledon triumph.

And what's this crap about the lack of marquee names? Are these people serious? Do they honestly think that Roger and Rafa are big stars in the U.S.? If they do, they need to be drug tested. The superstars in tennis, to the American sportsfan, are Williams(x2), Kournikova, Sharapova, Agassi Hingis, Navratilova, Seles, Capriati. The next level includes players like Davenport, Pierce, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Henin, Vaidisova. In fact, Kim pulls in bigger TV numbers in the states than any ATP player not named Agassi. So they have to watch which tour they're slamming, or someone might actually write the facts.

It would serve Worcester right if the players took offense and withdrew from her tourney.

And another tidbit from the memory hole: during the height of the "diva" period, weren't these same folks saying the women should get rid of all of the extraneous stuff and concentrate on tennis. Now that the elite players are doing just that, they get criticized again. Make up your minds, media.

Another sloppy, agenda-driven article.

In my opinion maria is not a superstar to tennis to the American sportfan. Whenever I talk tennis to the people on my job who are sportfans they have no idea who maria is but the all know who Anna K is.

tenn_ace
Aug 23rd, 2006, 01:27 PM
Thank you, Worchester, for confirming that you are ungrateful bitch. I hope this article is posted in the player's lounge with your words highlighted, so that they had a perfect reason to withdraw from your little nothing tournament. :rolleyes:


PS. Federer and Nadal are very respectful to each other on and off the court and yet their rivalry is a true magent for fans. Point is you don't need divas and trash talking ot make it a rivalry. :wavey:

The Crow
Aug 23rd, 2006, 01:47 PM
Must be one of the most populistic, one-sided and subjective articles I've read in my life. Saki, Brian and others are spot on in this thread.

starr
Aug 23rd, 2006, 01:59 PM
Typical sexist article. Does anyone think Federer is too nice or too boring? No, they focus on his tennis. Justine and Amelie have brought variety and touch back to the top of womens' tennis but, obviously, that doesn't matter because they're women and they're only interested if they're having a cat fight.

It's somewhat true that all the reporters want is a whole lot of spicy quotes. They loved it when Richard Williams said things like Martina should see a surgeon so he could saw up her legs and make them longer. Then they could run like high school girls to Martina (or whatever other player) and see what she might retort. And, of course, Martina was always handy with the smart mouth, off-the-cuff remark too. It was a great time for the reporters that's for sure.

They do that with the men too, but the men rarely give them anything to tittle tattle over, and when they do, it's soon over because the men give it no air. And somehow the few tennis fathers/mothers there are in men's tennis are far quieter and not as involved as they are in the women's game. That makes a difference too.

Marcell
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:02 PM
No wonder they were trying to start that mess in SanDiego with Daniela and Serena. Also talking about gamesmanship between Serena and Jankovich. Every player has a distinct personality, and no matter how much they try to manufacture drama, it will never work.You either have it or you don't.

starr
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:03 PM
Thank you, Worchester, for confirming that you are ungrateful bitch. I hope this article is posted in the player's lounge with your words highlighted, so that they had a perfect reason to withdraw from your little nothing tournament. :rolleyes:


PS. Federer and Nadal are very respectful to each other on and off the court and yet their rivalry is a true magent for fans. Point is you don't need divas and trash talking ot make it a rivalry. :wavey:

They are not always so respectful to one another. Roger described Nadal's game as "one-dimensional." And he's said other rather dismissive things about Nadal's game. Nadal on the other hand quietly says that Roger can't always play as well as he does now, and Roger is five years older than he, so he has time. These are remarks that show there is a competitive rivalry there that is not all sweetness and light. :) But, I think it stays a the level of talking about tennis and doesn't get personal. Sometimes the women have let personal remarks fly. That's not so good.

griffin
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:06 PM
OMG Martina said that almost 8 years ago, at the start of 1999:rolleyes:... She matured a lot since then and wouldn't say things like that again..

The quote Miranda refers to is from THIS YEAR:

In an interview with Play, The New York Times’ quarterly sports magazine, Hingis was asked if the women’s side was tougher since she returned. She said no and, with her typical grace and sense of sportsmanship, cited Mauresmo’s success as Exhibit A for the decline in the game’s quality.*

I'm liking Ann Worcester less and less (and if she really thinks Amelie is that shy, she should try subscribing to ParisMatch :devil: ). My inner conspiracy theorist is starting to suspect she WANTS the WTA half of New Haven to go away :help:

Granted, the non-American players don't generally generate as much buzz in the US, but the tour does a crap job of promoting them, here, too.

(and why are they po'd that Amelie "blew off" the summer hardcourts, when a number of American names did as well? (Including one that Larry Scat wouldn't LET into a few places?) And they apparently don't think much of her drawing power in the first place?)

RenaSlam.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:09 PM
Amelie, too classy for your own good. :mad:

trivfun
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:28 PM
I'm not a big fan of "chick fights." However, I like Russian players when they play each. It is like watching a CIAA basketball tournament, lot of intense competion regardless of rank as well as some major woofing. There is some serious rivalry between those Russians but the media doesn't care or are too lazy to look.

For me, I like players who aren't necessarily championship caliber style of player. Most articles want somebody who is capable of winning a championship. I like the Emilie Loit, Rennae Stubbs, Lisa Raymond, Virginia Ruano-Pascual, and Paola Suarez type. Coincidentally, they are doubles players who to me, are lot of more interesting to see, hear, and read about. They have so much personality, outside talents, and are so human. There is a sense of freedom and independence that you don't see in singles because so much attention is giving to those players with potential.

In short, I like qualifiers or working players that are in these blogs than high ranked players. When I watch tournaments, I prefer to watch first round till the 4th and taper off when it gets to quarters to finals. Fans and media like the other way around but I don't.

Mary Carillo: why don't you interview Darlene Hard? She was a doubles player who won 3 grand slams in doubles. Very charismatic. Maria Bueno. But don't bring Darlene and Maria together or there could be a Jerry Springer like episode.

trivfun
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:34 PM
Amelie, too classy for your own good. :mad:


She is a single's player who has a human element that very few champions possess before, during, and after their champions run.

Mother_Marjorie
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:39 PM
"*“Justine and Amélie are kind, they’re smart, but they’re also shy and not wildly outgoing,” said Anne Worcester, former chief executive of the W.T.A. and current director of the Pilot Pen Tournament in New Haven. “But when Venus Williams and Irina Spirlea bump each other, fans like that drama and they like that tension.”

Ms. Worcester was referring to the moment in the 1997 U.S. Open when Spirlea threw her shoulder into Williams’ body during a changeover. Williams’ father, Richard, reacted by calling Spirlea a “big, tall, white turkey” after the match."

Ms. Anne Worcester...hmmm...

Isn't that the controlling cow-bitch that started the whole "entry list" drama between the WTA and WTA World????

Corswandt
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:40 PM
What I liked the most about the article was how it also mentioned Dementieva as another example of the "uncharismatic" players that fill the draws in these dark days for women's tennis. Which makes us Lena fans all the cooler for liking such an obscure player, and makes me feel part of the indie snob elite of women's tennis fandom, leaving mainstream players such as Hingis and the WS for the hoi polloi to devour.

roarke
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:56 PM
You know tennis purist and others are such cruel hateful demi-gods. The Williams were giving as much to the tour as they could yet they were bashed and ridicule for their dominance and people asked them to leave by writing those negative article about them, telling other players for commentary boxes how to defeat them and by telling the world how their style of play and their dominance brought on the decline of the tennis. Now that they have left for one reason or the other, their absence is seen as indifference and selfish. Can anyone blame them for not giving a crap. Also when the sports marketers and sponsors stop legitimizing and paying player with limited achievement over other greater players then and only then should they blame the player for the malaise in tennis. Frankly Maria Sharapova should not be making more advertising dollars than Justine. Marketing managers should be rearing to kick of campaigns for Amelie after doing so great this year. Ana Kournikova should not be making more money than the top players on the tour with the kind of tennis results she has had! When they stop trying to sell the sports as soft porn, and market these player as true athletes with credible achievements, then and only then will the sports become more than what it is. Marketing these women as athletes and getting their names out their is the only way to make them well known to the public in general.

griffin
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:57 PM
Sports columnists everywhere were suddenly speaking of the greater virtues of the women’s game: It had more rallies than the men’s game, and the good matches were a crisp two hours—the length of a college-basketball game.

Funny, though, I really don't remember sports columnists saying any such thing. For the most part, I remember writers focusing on the "cat fights" and ignoring if not dismissing the actual tennis, complaining that there was no depth to the tour, that the same players always won, and ripping players sideways for the displays of "personality" they're now bemoaning the loss of.

I mean, pick a lane, would ya?

(and yes, MarJen, it's that Ann Worcester)

partbrit
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:57 PM
Despite having truths tossed in here and there, the sexism in this article is stunning. Collins and Carillo--not to mention Shriver and Drysdale--always seem far more interested in gossip and fake intrigue than they do in tennis. But only on the women's side, of course. And if the tennis establishment bothered to market their top players, they would be household names.

GoDominique
Aug 23rd, 2006, 02:57 PM
About the article:

Of course it's crap. We've had the same kind of articles about men's tennis as well, and in the end it all comes down to "No Americans = boring".

But it also addresses a point that's very valid: there are no rivalries.
A few years ago we had Lindsay vs. Martina, Venus vs. Martina, Serena vs. Martina, Venus vs. Serena, Serena vs. Jen, etc.
These players met on a regular enough basis so you could call it a rivalry.

Right now there's no such thing. The current players are injured or inconsistent way too often so they never play, and when they do, it's often bad.
Justine and Amelie played three times this year but two of their matches were stinkers.
Now Justine is absent again. And that's already the best "rivalry" we have right now!

That's why changes are necessary. We need mandatory tournaments so that the top players play THE SAME TOURNAMENTS.

Greenout
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:08 PM
:lol:

Boy, Monday's WTA "Sony Ericsson Madrid" press conference with Justine and Amelie in New Haven must've been a huge let down for Anne Worchester, and the local American reporters. No, fist fighting, insults, cat fights, and crude remarks.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/34/heninhardennemauresmocm1.jpg

griffin
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:11 PM
That's why changes are necessary. We need mandatory tournaments so that the top players play THE SAME TOURNAMENTS.

Did we have mandatory tournaments during those rivalries you cited?

Helen Lawson
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:17 PM
Strange article, what do they want, some on-court catfight between Amelie and Justine? The players are respecting each other a lot more off the court and focusing on their tennis, what's wrong with that. If they want it to turn into TV wrestling, just tell the girls to pull a stunt during a match and give them some side pay for it. Amelie could put Justine in a headlock, and then Justine can break free and smash a chair over Amelie's back during a changeover to help the ratings. Big Masha and Lena D could pull each other's hair and rip each other's tops off for some boob action, too.

Justine Fan
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:32 PM
:lol:

Boy, Monday's WTA "Sony Ericsson Madrid" press conference with Justine and Amelie in New Haven must've been a huge let down for Anne Worchester, and the local American reporters. No, fist fighting, insults, cat fights, and crude remarks.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/34/heninhardennemauresmocm1.jpg

and they were wearing exactly the same outfits, with red t-shirts also! :lol:

Justine Fan
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:34 PM
Strange article, what do they want, some on-court catfight between Amelie and Justine? The players are respecting each other a lot more off the court and focusing on their tennis, what's wrong with that. If they want it to turn into TV wrestling, just tell the girls to pull a stunt during a match and give them some side pay for it. Amelie could put Justine in a headlock, and then Justine can break free and smash a chair over Amelie's back during a changeover to help the ratings. Big Masha and Lena D could pull each other's hair and rip each other's tops off for some boob action, too.

:haha: :haha:

Justine Fan
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:37 PM
So they are saying there are no rivalries.

So if Serena draws Justine in 1r of USO, no one will watch it on TV then because there's no rivalry there, it's just a plain old boring tennis match with two boring tennis players http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/rolleye/rolleye0011.gif

LeRoy.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:45 PM
wow did Martina really say that about Mauresmo ? :rolleyes: :eek: Maybe because the tour is in such a declining state that she decided to come back and that maybe explains her (whatever limited) success too. :)

Joana
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:48 PM
About the article:

Of course it's crap. We've had the same kind of articles about men's tennis as well, and in the end it all comes down to "No Americans = boring".

But it also addresses a point that's very valid: there are no rivalries.
A few years ago we had Lindsay vs. Martina, Venus vs. Martina, Serena vs. Martina, Venus vs. Serena, Serena vs. Jen, etc.
These players met on a regular enough basis so you could call it a rivalry.

Right now there's no such thing. The current players are injured or inconsistent way too often so they never play, and when they do, it's often bad.
Justine and Amelie played three times this year but two of their matches were stinkers.
Now Justine is absent again. And that's already the best "rivalry" we have right now!




I agree. The majority of top players nowadays are injured, afraid they'll get injured or simply don't care and thus rarely get to play each other.
But the thing is, even if the players who ARE willing to play produce some inspiring tennis or crate new rivalries, it will be ignored. It's almost as if someone decided that there can be 4-5 superstars in women's tennis and the rest simply don't matter. During this year's Roland Garros we had an article crying about the absence of Seles and Capriati, for God's sake. :rolleyes:

But it's WTA's fault. They spent years promoting their glamorous starts and off-court drama, and now that those things are lacking they don't know what to do.

thrust
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:49 PM
As to Martina^s comment on Amelie, I thought she acknowleged that Amelie was mentally a stronger player now than in the past? Perhaps I misread the Hingis article. What recession is Carillo talking about? The Rogers Cup last week had the highest attendance of all time.

j-fan
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:53 PM
About the article:

Justine and Amelie played three times this year but two of their matches were stinkers.
Now Justine is absent again. And that's already the best "rivalry" we have right now!

That's why changes are necessary. We need mandatory tournaments so that the top players play THE SAME TOURNAMENTS.

In addition to Justine vs Amelie, Justine and Kim has played three times this year, twice in GS SF's, and three GS Finals in the past three years. Is that rivaly or not? Unfortunately, they are both from Belgium. There isn't even any inter-country rivalry. However, imagine if they were both from the US and the advertizing dollars they would have received.

ToeTag
Aug 23rd, 2006, 03:56 PM
I hate agreeing with Carillo, but I do agree with this!

“The players aren’t supporting the tour,” said NBC and CBS tennis analyst Mary Carillo. “Mauresmo has blown off the entire hard-court season. Then there are injuries and phony injuries—Clijsters is out for two months.*

“They don’t think about growing the game; they think about growing their bank account,” Ms. Carillo continued. “There’s been a recession for years, but the players don’t feel it. They’re making more. You can’t convince them that tennis is in trouble. They can’t feel it; their agents can’t feel it. They’re living in an entirely different reality.”*

Also why was there so little written in this article about the actual play on court? To me, thats one of the biggest problems; too many players who play alike, and, seemingly very little thought or effort givin to adding more shots to their games.

I wish someone would write an article about the dreadful coaches on the wta tour. :help:

GoDominique
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:07 PM
Did we have mandatory tournaments during those rivalries you cited?
No. But times have changed.

The players at those times were more dominant and thus arriving at the later stages of a GS more regularly.

Nowadays that's no longer the case. So we have to get them play each other elsewhere too.

Volcana
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:12 PM
Do they honestly think that Roger and Rafa are big stars in the U.S.? If they do, they need to be drug tested. The superstars in tennis, to the American sportsfan, are Williams(x2), Kournikova, Sharapova, Agassi Hingis, Navratilova, Seles, Capriati.This is a first. I'm disagreeing with Brian Stewart.

Federer and Nadal actually have something right now that virtually nobody else in tennis has. That's the interest of hardcore sports fans who are NOT tennis fans. I listen to a lot of sports radio, and those two are the only tennis players anybody is talking about now. Bearing in mind, tennis gets VERY little action on sports radio. And the talk has been going on since before the French.

Now if Venus and Serena, by some miracle, wind up in the US Open final, or Venus vs Hingis, or Serena vs Sharapova, they'll get better TV ratings than Nadal vs Federer. But what are the odds? Sure some women's GS finals have gotten better TV ratings than the men's finals. But EVERY ONE OF THEM had one or both of the Williams Sisters. That wasn't the popularity of women's tennis increasing. That was the popularity of two players. (It would be nice to see what kind of number Sharapova could draw on her own in a GS final.)

trivfun
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:13 PM
I agree. The majority of top players nowadays are injured, afraid they'll get injured or simply don't care and thus rarely get to play each other.
But the thing is, even if the players who ARE willing to play produce some inspiring tennis or crate new rivalries, it will be ignored. It's almost as if someone decided that there can be 4-5 superstars in women's tennis and the rest simply don't matter. During this year's Roland Garros we had an article crying about the absence of Seles and Capriati, for God's sake. :rolleyes:

But it's WTA's fault. They spent years promoting their glamorous starts and off-court drama, and now that those things are lacking they don't know what to do.


My goodness, what do you mean nowdays. With the exception of Steffi, Chris, and Martina, everybody else kept getting hurt in some way or some form. I'm going back to the 1950's for this.

Volcana
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:14 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the substance of the article, which is that women's tennis has lost a lot of it's star power. And certainly is true. Stardom isn't built solely on ability. and as the author points out, the problem, is NOT the lack of Americans at the top.

And that comment about 'not supporting the tour', that's actually valid. Remember, that comment is coming from one of the old-time players.

'Supporting the tour', the way she used the term, is about playing hurt, playing in tournaments you really don't feel like playing in to increase the quality of the field, and, star players especially, understanding that the tour needs them to play a lot. This isn't a new complaint. The same complaint was made about Steffi Graf in the mid 90's, when injuries began to limit her schedule.

But if you take a look, quite a few of today's players simply build a vacation into their schedules. Some years Davenport blew off red clay season. Some years Mauresmo the California summer hardcourts. Henin-Hardenne misses big hunks of seasons. So does Venus now. Serena always has. And yes, some players do fake injuries to avoid playing parts of schedules the WTA forced them to commit to. And they withdraw from WTA events before the slams if the get a minor injury, or just play a couple long matches and are afraid of fatigue.

Understandable? Yes. But that what the comment, 'they think more about supporting their bank accounts than supporting the tour' means.

An analogy would be a bunch of people living in a house while it's being built. If one or two don't participate in the building of the house, it's not fatal. If enough of them don't participate, the house never gets finished, and eventually collapses.

Andy.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:16 PM
A Masha v Serena rivalry would b able to save womens tennis, 2 ladies that like to be centre stage and dont like to share the spot light, both great fighters and fashionistas and very entertaining to watch with great on and off court personalities and celebrity.

vogus
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:19 PM
This is a first. I'm disagreeing with Brian Stewart.




whatever. Just like you, Brian Stewart has posted plenty of bullshit on this board and then turned tail and run when his cardboard arguments were shot down.

vogus
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:21 PM
i guess the basic question comes down to:

"Is women's tennis a freak show, or a sport?"

the author of this article seems to believe it is the former.

goldenlox
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:26 PM
Regarding this bull -
“The players aren’t supporting the tour,” said NBC and CBS tennis analyst Mary Carillo. “Mauresmo has blown off the entire hard-court season. Then there are injuries and phony injuries—Clijsters is out for two months.*

“They don’t think about growing the game; they think about growing their bank account,” Ms. Carillo continued. “There’s been a recession for years, but the players don’t feel it. They’re making more. You can’t convince them that tennis is in trouble. They can’t feel it; their agents can’t feel it. They’re living in an entirely different reality.”*




I think Carillo is full of crap. The top players jobs are to win.
The same as Tom Brady or Carlos Beltran

It's the tennis media that has turned the fans away.

The last 2 women's Wimbledon finals were historically important matches, and very close.
The Federer-Nadal FO final was the biggest tennis match since Borg played in his 6th Wimbledon final in a row.


The tennis media in the US is brutal. I've said this so many times.
One example- Agassi-Safin was replayed about 7 times DURING the 2004 AO.

ESPN and the rest have to rethink their coverage.

saki
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:27 PM
You can't just say "they're not stars" and not ask yourself, "why aren't they stars?"

There is no reason why, say, someone like Myskina who is gorgeous, very striking looking, plays nice tennis and who is just as honest and forthcoming in interviews as Hingis ever was isn't a star. They just haven't troubled to market her.

Amelie and Justine play beautiful tennis - lots of flashy shots there, why not market that?

Ana Ivanovic is a rising talent, striking, very pretty, has a nice personality, why isn't she a star?

Sveta is hilarious in some of her interviews, when she's goofing off around kids, etc, why not market that?

The answer is: they cannot be bothered to market non-Americans who aren't tall blondes. Hingis marketed herself - you can't pull stunts like she did in the 99 RG final and not get yourself noticed.

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:28 PM
im still really wondering why they characterized Justine as drama free. sure she may seem shy and reserved... but really... she's quite the crafty one who definitely creates some drama. and a lot of people on this board feel that she is a cheater.
how can they say there is no drama. that is just ridiculous. the drama of players like amelie, kim, and esp. justine is different than the usual williams / capriati drama because they dont outwardly display their emotions on court, but if you actually listen to what the commentators say, they definitely will help create the drama for u.

the women's game is so much more exciting now because its more competitive. there aren't going to be as many total beatdowns aired on national tv anymore because everyone believes they can at least CHALLENGE anyone. before, most people believed they couldn't test Hingis, Williams, Capriati, etc. and sowhenever one of them would play one of the non-believers, it would more likely than not be a beatdown. the girls are hitting harder, they are screaming, they are crying -- that should be good enough for typical americans.

the only thing "missing" from current women's tennis that may draw ratings away from casual tennis fans is the lack of a CONSISTENT, MAJOR rivalry due to the lack of consistent, year-in and year-out dominance.

pigam
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:28 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the substance of the article, which is that women's tennis has lost a lot of it's star power. And certainly is true. Stardom isn't built solely on ability. and as the author points out, the problem, is NOT the lack of Americans at the top.

And that comment about 'not supporting the tour', that's actually valid. Remember, that comment is coming from one of the old-time players.

'Supporting the tour', the way she used the term, is about playing hurt, playing in tournaments you really don't feel like playing in to increase the quality of the field, and, star players especially, understanding that the tour needs them to play a lot. This isn't a new complaint. The same complaint was made about Steffi Graf in the mid 90's, when injuries began to limit her schedule.

But if you take a look, quite a few of today's players simply build a vacation into their schedules. Some years Davenport blew off red clay season. Some years Mauresmo the California summer hardcourts. Henin-Hardenne misses big hunks of seasons. So does Venus now. Serena always has. And yes, some players do fake injuries to avoid playing parts of schedules the WTA forced them to commit to. And they withdraw from WTA events before the slams if the get a minor injury, or just play a couple long matches and are afraid of fatigue.

Understandable? Yes. But that what the comment, 'they think more about supporting their bank accounts than supporting the tour' means.

An analogy would be a bunch of people living in a house while it's being built. If one or two don't participate in the building of the house, it's not fatal. If enough of them don't participate, the house never gets finished, and eventually collapses.
I think that what you are miossing that it might have lost stardom in the USA, but not in "western"Europe (italy! belgium! france!) "central"Europe (serbia, czech republic, slovakia) and Russia. Also in Asia with up and coming Chinese players and succesful tournaments.

I understand a LOT of money for the sports comes from the USA, and therefore they are an important factor to consider BUT ... Tennis has -imo- never been more popular world wide. and that's thanks to the variety of players, looks, personalities and of course (!) play styles

hablo
Aug 23rd, 2006, 04:39 PM
Mauresmo may not have responded verbally in regards to Hingis' comments to that reporter (the article that reporter was refering to is posted somewhere on this board), but I'm confident she will respond appropriately, hence where it matters most, on the tennis courts. I'm looking forward to their rematches in the future.

As for the article itself, lots of posters have already expressed my viewpoint eloquently : it reeks of sexism and a nostalgia for american tennis players to be at the top once again. It's sad that women's tennis is only considered interesting for its cat fights and the men's for it's game...

It's true about Nadal and Federer (whatever Volcana said about them), at the Canadian Open in Toronto, a friend of mine who came with us, she doesn't even follow the sport and she still knew their names :tape:

No Name Face
Aug 23rd, 2006, 05:38 PM
wow if hingis really said that, what a bitch.

the article sucks too.

UDACHi
Aug 23rd, 2006, 05:42 PM
sorry, but the game changes. amelie, elena, justine, those are the top players now. if they still can't cope with the fact that americans suck now, that's unfortunate.

griffin
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:12 PM
The players at those times were more dominant and thus arriving at the later stages of a GS more regularly.

Nowadays that's no longer the case.

Oddly enough, either Hingis of Davenport recently said just the OPPOSITE in explaining why today's tour is less interesting (or words to that effect): that "back in the day" it wasn't always the same players in the final stages of the Slams.

I'd love to see a comparison, actually. A quick look at a few head-to-heads and it looks like the Big Rivals of the past really didn't meet each other all that oftne, either. But a more thourough analysis might be challenging as I get the sense that "back in the day" amounts to the best of a number of years pressed into one, where as "now" is just now, and the worst of it at that. But back to the drama/rivalry issue.

You say 2 of the last 3 times Amelie and Justine played, the matches weren't top-notch. I say, if what makes a rivalry interesting is drama, how is that an issue?

You - and I mean generic "you" not just GoDom - say The Bump of 1997. I say The BellyAche of 2006 (and whichever side you take on the 06 Oz final, you cannot tell me it didn't generate drama - although I don't think too many people praised Justine for her role in brining it). I say Belgian FedCup. And Lei Clijsters accusing Justine of using steroids. And Russian FedCup.

miranda_lou
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:14 PM
wow if hingis really said that, what a bitch.

If you're just now discovering that Hingis is a bitch, I have only one thing to say . . . where have you been???:rolleyes: Hingis has ALWAYS been a total bitch. She is rude, nasty and obviously badly brought up.:( But that's what the sports writers love. She's always good for a quote and it doesn't matter who gets their feelings hurt.:sad:

they still can't cope with the fact that americans suck now, that's unfortunate.

We Americans can never cope with not being on top. THAT'S unfortunate.

GoDominique
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:25 PM
Oddly enough, either Hingis of Davenport recently said just the OPPOSITE in explaining why today's tour is less interesting (or words to that effect): that "back in the day" it wasn't always the same players in the final stages of the Slams.

I'd love to see a comparison, actually. A quick look at a few head-to-heads and it looks like the Big Rivals of the past really didn't meet each other all that oftne, either. But a more thourough analysis might be challenging as I get the sense that "back in the day" amounts to the best of a number of years pressed into one, where as "now" is just now, and the worst of it at that. But back to the drama/rivalry issue.

You say 2 of the last 3 times Amelie and Justine played, the matches weren't top-notch. I say, if what makes a rivalry interesting is drama, how is that an issue?

You - and I mean generic "you" not just GoDom - say The Bump of 1997. I say The BellyAche of 2006 (and whichever side you take on the 06 Oz final, you cannot tell me it didn't generate drama - although I don't think too many people praised Justine for her role in brining it). I say Belgian FedCup. And Lei Clijsters accusing Justine of using steroids. And Russian FedCup.
Yeah, but "The Bump" occured in one of the most dramatic matches ever, despite featuring two non-top players (at that time).
"The BellyAche" occured in the lamest GS final ever.
Drama alone is pointless. You need good quality tennis as well.

And didn't we have like 8 different GS finalists recently?
Don't know what Hingis and/or Davenport were on about but they are wrong.
1999 is often considered the best year. We had:
Hingis vs. Davenport
Hingis vs. Graf
Graf vs. Davenport
Serena vs. Davenport
5 different players, old players, upcoming players, lots of rivalry and future potential.

Right now there's very little of all that.

GoDominique
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:27 PM
Also, drama usually occurs when both players would do anything to win that match.

Therefore, I wouldn't call The BellyAche "drama", I would call it "pathetic bullshit" or something similar. :)

mike/topgun
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:37 PM
Yeah, but "The Bump" occured in one of the most dramatic matches ever, despite featuring two non-top players (at that time).
"The BellyAche" occured in the lamest GS final ever.
Drama alone is pointless. You need good quality tennis as well.

And didn't we have like 8 different GS finalists recently?
Don't know what Hingis and/or Davenport were on about but they are wrong.
1999 is often considered the best year. We had:
Hingis vs. Davenport
Hingis vs. Graf
Graf vs. Davenport
Serena vs. Davenport
5 different players, old players, upcoming players, lots of rivalry and future potential.

Right now there's very little of all that.
Serena did beat Martina in US Open'99 final actuall, but I agree with you. In 1997-2001 there were players like ASV, Martinez, Pierce, Davenport, Hingis, Williams, Kournikova, Dokic, Zvereva, Spirlea, Novotna, Tauziat, Schet, Van Roost,SELES, Capriati and so on. Now we have: Maursmo, JHH, sharapova________________and the rest, cos most of the players who are true champions have been in a slump lately.
I'm happy that there are at least you who agrees with me;)

Also, drama usually occurs when both players would do anything to win that match.

Therefore, I wouldn't call The BellyAche "drama", I would call it "pathetic bullshit" or something similar.
exactly
the quality lately has gone down, the rivalry between JHH, Mauresmo and Clijsters ? what rivalry when in GS Kim has never beaten JHH, when Maria hasn't beaten Mauresmo? well maybe the Aussie Open final or last years FRG, US Open finals??6-1, 6-2 :lol:

Only thing that makes the tour better than it was in it's high days(1997-2001) is that the level of play is very even and more average players can cause an upset, cos every player plays same style, and only errors differ the score. :help:
That is boring, and low quality and vurtualy zero rivalry between the best :tape:

clementine
Aug 23rd, 2006, 06:58 PM
Compared to the superstars on the men's tour, the women ARE boring: many of them have no style sense, no personality, half of them are not very pretty, and people wonder why the media focuses so much on Maria? Duh. It's because Maria is the only one who gets it and seems to understand the intrinsic value of being an athlete AND a media star.

franny
Aug 23rd, 2006, 07:02 PM
OMG HINGIS DID NOT SAY THAT ABOUT MAURESMO! This is ridiculous. I hate how the media twists her words and try to start what they call a "catfight." I hope that Mauresmo knew what the reporters were up to. Anyone reading this article can tell that the media twists words to get those catfights and dramas. That was a perfect example. Agh!

But the article does have a point. 5 years ago women's tennis was HUGE. Hingis and the Williams plus Jenny cap and Monica and LIndsay really really made the tour something special. Now it's just chaotic and plagued with injuries. Sigh.

roarke
Aug 23rd, 2006, 08:13 PM
Compared to the superstars on the men's tour, the women ARE boring: many of them have no style sense, no personality, half of them are not very pretty, and people wonder why the media focuses so much on Maria? Duh. It's because Maria is the only one who gets it and seems to understand the intrinsic value of being an athlete AND a media star.


Should pretty be a criterion for Tennis. Should it be a criterion for you to attend school, or work? Shouldn't it be about achievement and performance..?

pcrtennis
Aug 23rd, 2006, 08:22 PM
Just because casual American fans don't know the players doesn't mean that they're anonymous overall...Americans need celebrities it seems and I'm glad that the players don't care about that.

PLP
Aug 23rd, 2006, 08:23 PM
I agree about the rivalry bit, but that's about all.

I don't like Hingis making that comment about Amelie's success showing the sport is in decline. It's untrue and bang out of order. Rivalries are built on the court, not in the playground.
Ugh! The reporter is just trying to startsomthing...Martina's comment was not an insult to Momo, just a reflection of all of the injuries the tour is facing, and the fact that the level of play isn't that much higher than a few years ago, or she woudn't even be able to compete...She has said that Amelie is a better player than her this year, and that she isn't sure how to beat her...I hope Momo didn't fall for this... :tape:

canoe.
Aug 23rd, 2006, 08:24 PM
Compared to the superstars on the men's tour, the women ARE boring: many of them have no style sense, no personality, half of them are not very pretty, and people wonder why the media focuses so much on Maria? Duh. It's because Maria is the only one who gets it and seems to understand the intrinsic value of being an athlete AND a media star.
Snickers.

You should have left the "compared to the superstars on the men's tour" ,bit out of your post, cuz it makes a joke out of the rest of your post. Nadal, wears women's clothing,and picks his bum, and hes rather homely to say the least. Federer completely dominates all the while looking sour, and grumpy, and seems as though he only intends on smiling if someone hands him a check to do so...maybe...if you're lucky.:help:

Really, the atp, or their fans are not ones to talk.

Martian KC
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:12 PM
It's completely disgusting how they misinterpreted Martina's words AGAIN and AGAIN.

Volcana
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:16 PM
whatever. Just like you, Brian Stewart has posted plenty of bullshit on this board and then turned tail and run when his cardboard arguments were shot down.I have no idea what your disputes with Brian Stewart have been like. But given the general tenor of his posts, and the general tenor of yours, I can only imagine he was bored to death arguing with a child who writes like he has an IQ of 30.

As for me, you're the first person ever who siad I would 'turned tail and run when his cardboard arguments were shot down'. The usual complaint is that I post and post and post, and that I WON'T go away. Congrats on coming up with a new complaint. :)

Infiniti2001
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:28 PM
Justine is kind? :tape: And how does Mary Carillo decide what is an "injury" and what is a "phony injury"? Plus isn't it hypocritical to say players (I can't tell if the reference was just to Venus and Serena or to all the players becuase of the way the quotes are edited) are only interested in their bank accounts and then tout the amount of money Maria ALLEGEDLY is making? And he points to Hingis's comeback as a reason for hope? Yeah, sure, it helps a lot that she gets crushed by the likes of Ana Ivanovic. This sounds like someone who barely knows what he is talking about but just absorbed a bunch of secondhand press clips.

tard~tard
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:30 PM
OMG HINGIS DID NOT SAY THAT ABOUT MAURESMO! This is ridiculous. I hate how the media twists her words and try to start what they call a "catfight." I hope that Mauresmo knew what the reporters were up to. Anyone reading this article can tell that the media twists words to get those catfights and dramas. That was a perfect example. Agh!

So glad you mention this, because I was just about to write the same.
As soon as I came across that part of the article, it lost all its credibility
to me.
If it's true that this journalist confronted A. Mauresmo with this quote,
then he is seriously at fault. I can hardly believe this and I think that
Amélie's so called reaction when he brought her the false news, has been
fabricated by him/herself. I don't believe a word of it. But if it is true what
this journalist did, then it's really a shame.
As a European, I have become very critical towards American tennis
journalism, and honestly I don't believe a word of what they're saying,
before I have checked other more reliable, more objective sources.
To me it looks as if the American tennis journalism is in serious lack of
some decent ethics and self reflection. They are as much a problem as
everything they're complaining about all the time.


But the article does have a point. 5 years ago women's tennis was HUGE. Hingis and the Williams plus Jenny cap and Monica and LIndsay really really made the tour something special. Now it's just chaotic and plagued with injuries. Sigh.

There is some truth in that as well, which also means that M. Hingis' "original"
words had a point. And no, I didn't have the feeling she was discrediting
Amélie, because she has been very complimentary to Amélie in other
interviews she gave since her come back this year. She was only giving her
opinion and she has every right to do so.

We can't deny the fact that the Williams sisters are suffering from chronic
injuries and a certain level of burn-out.
We can't deny the fact that since 2003 both Belgians are suffering from
injuries and illnessess and have been sidelined from the tour for too many
and too long periods these past few years.
We can't deny L. Davenports back problems which forced her to withdraw
from so many tournaments this year. Etc...
In short, we can't really expect from these players to dominate the tour
when so often they have been forced to skip tournaments due to health
problems.
Justine's main goal this year is to try to stay healthy for a whole season,
Lindsay is trying to make her comeback at the moment and Kim is out again
with an injury for at least 6 weeks.

saki
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:36 PM
Justine is kind? :tape:

Yes, yes, she is. Take a look at what she did straight after the Wimbledon final - http://www.20coeursdejustine.be/public/news.asp?lg=e&tp=1

vogus
Aug 23rd, 2006, 09:55 PM
I have no idea what your disputes with Brian Stewart have been like. But given the general tenor of his posts, and the general tenor of yours, I can only imagine he was bored to death arguing with a child who writes like he has an IQ of 30.

As for me, you're the first person ever who siad I would 'turned tail and run when his cardboard arguments were shot down'. The usual complaint is that I post and post and post, and that I WON'T go away. Congrats on coming up with a new complaint. :)


Anybody who knows me, knows that i am all about the truth. In my time here i have shot down some of Brian Stewart's bullshit and i have shot down some of yours. You guys both have your agendas, and that is fine with me, but you can't expect everybody here to just swallow your assertions, which are occasionally ridiculous and/or unsupportable and/or simply badly informed, whole.

Marshmallow
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:52 PM
The article is so so. There are some thing you have to agree with. Generally the WTA is in a BLAH spell. It really is, especially with the excess of injuries, and out of form players.

But I have to agree a little with those claiming this article is sexist. ‘A little’ because, in fairness the article is saying at some point women’s tennis was good and great. But the ATP isn’t in a much greater state either. Yes there is Federer and Nadal (federer beign quie bland actually, being saved by his game) – but who else. They ATP was quite boring with Federer winning everything, and I doubt ratings were very good outside of tennis devotees. This new rivalry has itself saved the ATP, yet the article makes it seem like mens tennis has been in a consistently healthy state, when I don’t think we can agree that it has.

Marshmallow
Aug 23rd, 2006, 10:58 PM
And what exactly did Hingis say - is there an actually quote. What we were given in the article at best is paraphrasing, and considering the Agenda of the article.... i just don't think Martina said that exactly.

miffedmax
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:00 PM
If Bud Collins thinks Nasty is boring, he's officially completely senile.

And of course, speaking ill of Lena is a TICKET STRAIGHT TO HELL.

There's still plenty of drama to follow on and off court. You just have to, oh, you know, FUCKING WATCH.

Marshmallow
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:00 PM
sorry, but the game changes. amelie, elena, justine, those are the top players now. if they still can't cope with the fact that americans suck now, that's unfortunate.

Yes but Tennis is a business, and while these top players are talented, they don't draw new fans, they don't always thrill crowds with their matches... and this isn't good for women's tennis as an industry.

vogus
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:07 PM
If Bud Collins thinks Nasty is boring, he's officially completely senile.

And of course, speaking ill of Lena is a TICKET STRAIGHT TO HELL.

There's still plenty of drama to follow on and off court. You just have to, oh, you know, FUCKING WATCH.



what i'd like to know is, who gives a damn about any so-called tennis pundit that talks trash about Lena? I guess Lena would probably have to go and stick her Yonex up Bud Collin's ass to become one of his precious "first-name" players.

Mother_Marjorie
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:08 PM
Yes but Tennis is a business, and while these top players are talented, they don't draw new fans, they don't always thrill crowds with their matches... and this isn't good for women's tennis as an industry.

Oh, blah, blah blah.

Bud Collins and Mary Carillo have said this about every tennis generation since the '80's. When Navratilova and Evert were dominating they said the same thing. When Graf dominated they said the same thing. When no one player dominates they say the same thing.

At what point does the industry accept responsibility for their poor marketing, poor response to fans requests and limiting fan involvement in the sport instead of always blaming the players.

Cow-Bitch Worcester and the to WTA took another slap at fans by complaining that entry-lists were posted in this forum. And they wonder why people are turned away or off from the sport. Its by their arrogance and inability to embrace fans of the sport.

DavenportForever
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:19 PM
I think that these people are criticizing the players a little too much. Federer in the men's game caused a complete sense of boredom for me. However, when Nadal stepped in I felt the rivalry made me more into the men's tennis game. I like the women's field right now, it's unpredictable and anyone can win, rather than the men's game where Federer and Nadal are top 2 picks. In the women's Mauresmo, Henin-Hardenne, Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Davenport, Myskina, Sharapova, Williams Sisters, Dementieva are top players who can win the grand slam. Then you have other people like Vaidisova, Ivanovic, Hantuchova who are also players to look out for. I think that each player should keep their personality. Mauresmo blurting out horrible comments will make her known as a bad player and she is 2nd right after Clijsters in "being nice." However, rivalry even though not being seen as much now is still present in the women's game. Davenport vs. Venus, Mauresmo vs. Henin-Hardenne, etc. It doesn't have to be shown. And the quote from lindsay is so true:

"We get criticized whenever we don't show personality. But when we do show personality, then we get criticized even more."

Personally, Mary Carillo and Bud Collins are being too stingy.

Anastasia Myskina is a well known player in Russia, it doesn't have to be just the United States. And for Pilot Pen to have players like Dementieva is an honor. Dementieva is such a great player.

Women's tennis I think is better now-a-days because the field is wide open. It wasn't like 10 years ago or 2-3 years ago where you would say Steffi and Navratilova will win, or Serena will definitely win. Now, it is a matter of who stays healthy the longest.

Bijoux0021
Aug 23rd, 2006, 11:36 PM
You know tennis purist and others are such cruel hateful demi-gods. The Williams were giving as much to the tour as they could yet they were bashed and ridicule for their dominance and people asked them to leave by writing those negative article about them, telling other players for commentary boxes how to defeat them and by telling the world how their style of play and their dominance brought on the decline of the tennis. Now that they have left for one reason or the other, their absence is seen as indifference and selfish. Can anyone blame them for not giving a crap. Also when the sports marketers and sponsors stop legitimizing and paying player with limited achievement over other greater players then and only then should they blame the player for the malaise in tennis. Frankly Maria Sharapova should not be making more advertising dollars than Justine. Marketing managers should be rearing to kick of campaigns for Amelie after doing so great this year. Ana Kournikova should not be making more money than the top players on the tour with the kind of tennis results she has had! When they stop trying to sell the sports as soft porn, and market these player as true athletes with credible achievements, then and only then will the sports become more than what it is. Marketing these women as athletes and getting their names out their is the only way to make them well known to the public in general.
:worship: AMEN! :worship:

Bijoux0021
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:06 AM
This is a first. I'm disagreeing with Brian Stewart.

Federer and Nadal actually have something right now that virtually nobody else in tennis has. That's the interest of hardcore sports fans who are NOT tennis fans. I listen to a lot of sports radio, and those two are the only tennis players anybody is talking about now. Bearing in mind, tennis gets VERY little action on sports radio. And the talk has been going on since before the French.

Now if Venus and Serena, by some miracle, wind up in the US Open final, or Venus vs Hingis, or Serena vs Sharapova, they'll get better TV ratings than Nadal vs Federer. But what are the odds? Sure some women's GS finals have gotten better TV ratings than the men's finals. But EVERY ONE OF THEM had one or both of the Williams Sisters. That wasn't the popularity of women's tennis increasing. That was the popularity of two players. (It would be nice to see what kind of number Sharapova could draw on her own in a GS final.)
Exactly! It's a well known fact that whenever there's a Williams sister or both Williamses in a final, the ratings go through the roof.

Sharapova won't draw much better ratings than Kim vs Justine in a Grand Slam final or any tournament final unless she's playing a Williams sister.

spokenword73
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:12 AM
The article was kinda true. But why no mention of Maria S?

Mileen
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:24 AM
Let some players (belgian, french, russian, ...) talk in their mother tongue and make some others answer in a second language. let's see how exciting they would be.

Good point!

To me the article comes across as a tiny little bit, just a little bit ;) too much American oriented.
Also, as if only Sharapova -Serena would be an interesting rivalry!

Viktymise
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:27 AM
I hate ppl who used to complain when Vee and Serena were at the top of the game and in all the slam finals and they were like how bad it was for the game and now that there not the exact same ppl are begging for them to comeback, they cant have everything there own way :o

Zauber
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:46 AM
these people who chritize any sport on the above basis should watch soap-operas.

Please leave our sports alone so that true sports fans may enjoy real sport.

MisterMan
Aug 24th, 2006, 12:54 AM
What a sad state of affairs for humanity when friendliness, courtesy, manners and politeness are all seen as something negative.
I love the manners. Those authors are a scum.

barmaid
Aug 24th, 2006, 01:26 AM
What a sad state of affairs for humanity when friendliness, courtesy, manners and politeness are all seen as something negative.
I love the manners. Those authors are a scum.

Oh! lovely answer SCUM!:rolleyes: :p

barmaid:wavey:

MinnyGophers
Aug 24th, 2006, 01:50 AM
She is a single's player who has a human element that very few champions possess before, during, and after their champions run.

Unlike some who are catty bitches during and even after their champions run :angel:

I'm VERY surprised that Hingis basically said that Amelie being on top means a "decline" in women's tennis. Wouldn't she be insulting herself then too? Because she doesn't seem to be able to do that well in this "declining" tour.
I really hope her comments were taken out of context, otherwise, I will absolutely lose all respect that I've had for her since she came back.... And after the comments from 1999, it would also mean that she is not just being catty, but that she's a real bitch.

MisterMan
Aug 24th, 2006, 02:59 AM
Oh! lovely answer SCUM!:rolleyes: :p

barmaid:wavey:

Eww. Could you BE creepier ? Mutt.

Miranda
Aug 24th, 2006, 03:51 AM
i was not referring to the "half man" comments by hingis, i was referring to the thing she said in this recent article: "momo's sucess is a decline of women's tennis", please read carefully, whats more, i do wish that she did not say that, coz if so, i gonna lose my respect for her



OMG Martina said that almost 8 years ago, at the start of 1999:rolleyes:... She matured a lot since then and wouldn't say things like that again..

vejh
Aug 24th, 2006, 03:52 AM
^Hear hear Iacobus!

How hard is it to try promoting other people other than the cliche tall, leggy blonde with a GS, the ever-absent Williams, + the brash Hingis? Larry Scott et al show no creativity, add the ESPN commentators to the mix and it seems almost hopeless with the WTA.

I still can't believe that article!! I can't believe intelligent life forms actually said some of those things.

JackWalker
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:00 AM
i think the tour defenitely needs more drama and personalities, like in 99. so much drama that year and personalities. jankovic has provided quite a lot this summer and that is why i love her. there is nothing wrong with mauresmo and henin being shy, but what is wrong is that they dont try and promote the game of tennis more by whatever means say like playing more often and giving back to the game of tennis like say federer. the truth is that these two women are boring and that does not promote tennis.

jaex
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:09 AM
And what exactly did Hingis say - is there an actually quote. What we were given in the article at best is paraphrasing, and considering the Agenda of the article.... i just don't think Martina said that exactly.

This was the exact q's asked and this what Hingis said in her own words:

So the women’s game has improved?

No, otherwise I wouldn’t have a chance. A lot of the great players have been injured. I used to play Lindsay, Monica, Jennifer, the Williams sisters — all of us were beating [Amelie] Mauresmo. And now she’s No. 1 and she’s more confident. Sometimes in tennis it’s about the last one standing.

It was from new york times, i tried to post the link to the article but the link had expired.

You can draw your own conclusion but to me, Hingis is not my favourite person right now.

vogus
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:32 AM
This was the exact q's asked and this what Hingis said in her own words:

So the women’s game has improved?

No, otherwise I wouldn’t have a chance. A lot of the great players have been injured. I used to play Lindsay, Monica, Jennifer, the Williams sisters — all of us were beating [Amelie] Mauresmo. And now she’s No. 1 and she’s more confident. Sometimes in tennis it’s about the last one standing.

It was from new york times, i tried to post the link to the article but the link had expired.

You can draw your own conclusion but to me, Hingis is not my favourite person right now.


it takes nothing away from Mauresmo's achievements that the Williams sisters (and of course Hingis herself) flamed out at a young age, and that Davenport and Seles went over the hill. It's lame of Hingis to try to justify a lack of staying power and dedication to the sport by just saying "well, they got injured". Mauresmo was tough enough mentally to hang in there for 7,8 years - unlike the media darling axis of players, Hingis, Kournikova, Williams, Seles, etc.

treufreund
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:35 AM
hingis's quote is not that bad. Totally misinterpreted. She said that Amelie is confident.

And, yes, JUSTINE is KIND! VERY KIND! She does so much to help others, gets along great with Dementieva, Myskina, Amelie, Dechy and others on tour. She went back to Fed Cup Coach (even after being totally disrespected) and agreed to play in the finals for Belgium and even apologized for quitting in the finals of Oz Open (and yet it was she who lost!! because of having to withdraw). She is a classy woman who has had the same coach for years and is loyal to those she loves. She does so much for the game and for kids with cancer. :angel:
it takes nothing away from Mauresmo's achievements that the Williams sisters (and of course Hingis herself) flamed out at a young age, and that Davenport and Seles went over the hill. It's lame of Hingis to blame a lack of staying power and dedication to the sport on just "injuries". Mauresmo was tough enough mentally to hang in there for 7,8 years - unlike the media darling axis of players, Hingis, Kournikova, Williams, Seles, etc.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:50 AM
Boring? Did the article just mentioned that the WTA players at this moment are BORING??? Man, they have to be kidding me!

Who bloody cares of the tension or drama... all we want is good quality tennis. We're not seeing a movie, but a game for Christ's sake! I don't pay hundreds of dollars every month just to see someone calling another "half a man" or "a big, tall white turkey". If they want entertainment, they might as well go watch wrestling instead. It's fun... it's exciting, it has loads of tension... and yes, it has drama!

And one more thing... there was a "dark age" in tennis from 2000-2003, where the race to win Slams was just "a small group of two". Thank God that age is over!

Miranda
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:50 AM
not so nice words from hingis, she meant that "the one who we used to beat in the past is now no.1, so the field is not strong" but she also forgot that, yes she did beat momo but it was in the past, momo is too strong for her now otherwise why she lost 2 times to momo ?;)

saying momo is confident is not a praise for me, momo is really too polite to her ;)

This was the exact q's asked and this what Hingis said in her own words:

So the women’s game has improved?

No, otherwise I wouldn’t have a chance. A lot of the great players have been injured. I used to play Lindsay, Monica, Jennifer, the Williams sisters — all of us were beating [Amelie] Mauresmo. And now she’s No. 1 and she’s more confident. Sometimes in tennis it’s about the last one standing.

It was from new york times, i tried to post the link to the article but the link had expired.

You can draw your own conclusion but to me, Hingis is not my favourite person right now.

Zauber
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:58 AM
If you want manufactured drama and personality.
watch soap-operas.
sports is not about talk talk talk
But i guess this silly board is.
If you are a sports-fan you watch a sport because you enjoy the sport...........

anlavalle
Aug 24th, 2006, 06:47 AM
Compared to the superstars on the men's tour, the women ARE boring: many of them have no style sense, no personality, half of them are not very pretty, and people wonder why the media focuses so much on Maria? Duh. It's because Maria is the only one who gets it and seems to understand the intrinsic value of being an athlete AND a media star.

superstars on the man tours?, helloooooo besides Roger and Nadal the top 10 in the atp sucks, Ljubicic is up and down, Nalbandian lost first and second round of the last two masters, nicolai lost first round in wimby, robredo is nothing special, blake sucks lately, marcos just lost to soderling, well roddick seems to back, but before he sucked too, what the fuckkkkkkkk?,are you freaking kidding me? What is the difference with the wta tour? this article totally sucks, ok too many withdrawls lately but is fault of injuries and if wtatour wants more ratings, money and popularity is their responsabilty to promote the tour with maybe more tv coverage for the women tennis, because i only can see players in the grand slams and if they make it to qf or sf beacuse the more coverage is for the men tour.

and if Martina said that should be becuase all the top players kick her ass lately and even Ivanovic does so she must be reconsidering her return to the tour.

anlavalle
Aug 24th, 2006, 06:54 AM
This was the exact q's asked and this what Hingis said in her own words:

So the women’s game has improved?

No, otherwise I wouldn’t have a chance. A lot of the great players have been injured. I used to play Lindsay, Monica, Jennifer, the Williams sisters — all of us were beating [Amelie] Mauresmo. And now she’s No. 1 and she’s more confident. Sometimes in tennis it’s about the last one standing.

It was from new york times, i tried to post the link to the article but the link had expired.

You can draw your own conclusion but to me, Hingis is not my favourite person right now.

well if she said that, i think the women game has improve because Martina now doesn`t have a chance of winning any slam if she has to face one of the top five. ;)

Xanadu11
Aug 24th, 2006, 06:58 AM
I think what Hingis said was totally mis-interpreted.

I hate all this crap about womens tennis needing dramas and divas. What womens tennis need is players who are healthy, able to quality play on a relatively regular basis and of course generate fans. But I don't see that as this huge overiding factor, especially not in the terms put in the article. I mean all players are different, I can appreciate Lindsay and her sharp wit, and Serena and her denim skirts at the sametime.

What Larry and Ann and all their cronies need to do is fix the fucking farce that the WTA is quickly becoming.

louisa2k2
Aug 24th, 2006, 02:40 PM
As usual martina is misquoted and taken out of context.

Before they complained there was no depth just the same women winning and now there is depth they complain they dont know all the players in with a chance of winning.

they dont know what they want.

jaex
Aug 24th, 2006, 03:49 PM
For those who said Hingis was misquoted, maybe you can explain what she really meant by what she said then.

griffin
Aug 24th, 2006, 03:59 PM
I don't think Hingis was misquoted.

I also don't think that's the issue here.

harloo
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Even though the article is scandalous alot of it rings true. At this point the tour has lost that "it" factor. Even their attempts to sell Maria to the public as this mega-star has failed. The veterans (Hingis, Williams sisters, Davenport, Ana Kournikova, Pierce, Tauziat etc.) provided alot of drama and drew in the casual fan.

I do think it's unfair to single out Amelie and Justine for not providing interest in the sport. What the WTA should do is find new stars to promote that have personality and a certain appeal to the public. The sad fact is that DRAMA does sell the women's game. The attitude may be sexist but the public loves to watch women passionate about winning even moreso than men. I find it odd that noone mentions how the male players on the ATP have been accused of being "cyborgs or "boring" in the past by many people(including posters here). This is the very thing that made the women stand out and draw in more attention.

Let's be honest here, both tours need rivalries and drama to sell tickets. And as much as the tennis world is hooping and hollering about Federer vs. Nadal, the casual fan could give a damn about that matchup. Fed has a beautiful game but his personality is reminiscent of Pete Sampras. If Nadal makes the final of the U.S. Open to meet Fed(which is a big "if" considering his recent hard court results) I don't even think this will be a big ratings winner. The commentators are the one's hyping their supposed "rivalry" more than anything. ;)

goldenlox
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:22 PM
Tennis is dead in the US because of the US tennis media.
The game is excellent now.
Both Wimbledon finals were very personal matches, with so much on the line for all 4 players.

You have to sell the sport. Selling Roddick and Sharapova is an insane gameplan

ToeTag
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:36 PM
If Nadal makes the final of the U.S. Open to meet Fed(which is a big "if" considering his recent hard court results) I don't even think this will be a big ratings winner. The commentators are the one's hyping their supposed "rivalry" more than anything True. Despite the hyping of their "rivalry" the men's Wimbledon final was:2.9{2.2 million}, and the women's was 2.2{1.7 million}.With the amount of hype, and orgasmic press the atp, Federer, and Nadal's "rivalry" gets they only managed to beat the alledged , personality impaired, Mauresmo, and Henin final by a measly .7 !

Justine Fan
Aug 24th, 2006, 05:52 PM
I personally think that the problem here is with the journalists. There is no "sensationalism" for them to write about and when there is "sensationalism" then the newspapers are all in a tizzy as to who can get the first "sensational" story out on the streets, who gets the best story, who gets the biggest bonus for getting that story etc, etc. It's all about journalism and selling of the newspapers, nothing to do with the way the women are now.

Just think about it, they have to fill up the sports pages in the newspapers and if there are no "stories/dramas", what are they gonna fill those pages up with?

If you are a genuine tennis fan, you will love the way the girls are playing now. The injuries are a shame, but the tennis I personally think, is above what it used to be. In my opinion. :D

Edit: And YES .. Martina Hingis is still a BITCH! :mad:

manu32
Aug 24th, 2006, 09:57 PM
GS finals are awful and 2006 is the top.....

hablo
Aug 24th, 2006, 09:59 PM
True. Despite the hyping of their "rivalry" the men's Wimbledon final was:2.9{2.2 million}, and the women's was 2.2{1.7 million}.With the amount of hype, and orgasmic press the atp, Federer, and Nadal's "rivalry" gets they only managed to beat the alledged , personality impaired, Mauresmo, and Henin final by a measly .7 !
interesting numbers

Miranda
Aug 25th, 2006, 02:25 AM
agreed :wavey: , she was not misquoted, she did not say directly but indirectly that the tour is not improving coz the one who they used to beat in the past is winning slams and she got to the no.1 mainly because she is injuries free and not she worths it:rolleyes: , but i think she is not smart for saying this, by putting down momo, she also put down herself coz isn't she is even more weak than momo? momo beat her 2 times ;). i hope she will give momo some credit later ;)


For those who said Hingis was misquoted, maybe you can explain what she really meant by what she said then.

IceHock
Aug 25th, 2006, 02:44 AM
If Amelie and Justine were american,the tour would be sky high.But their not and the average american does not pay attention to people outside of their country in sports,unless their very attractive,hence why they know Kournikova and Sharapova.Basicly I think Larry Scott has alot to do with why tennis is not so good right now.Although I like the elctronic line calling system,coaching is a bad idea.But I think tennis will be good to go after the uso with the night matches and the williams are back.We just need some really high quality matches.

goldenlox
Aug 25th, 2006, 03:05 PM
I don't know how you can get better rivalries than Justine -Amelie and Roger-Rafa.
Unless you want them to yell like pro rasslers, the stakes at these majors are as high as ever.

But no one in the US cares

janko
Aug 25th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Compared to the superstars on the men's tour, the women ARE boring: many of them have no style sense, no personality, half of them are not very pretty, and people wonder why the media focuses so much on Maria? Duh. It's because Maria is the only one who gets it and seems to understand the intrinsic value of being an athlete AND a media star.

I hope players will never understand that value. I want to see tennis, not modelling or acting or whatever you a media star.

I found quite regressive to bring a few players and tell her to make publicity for Whirlpool (Women in the kitchen, very modern media plan... :rolleyes: ) and Sony Ericsson (They all look stupid smiling with a mobile phone or an ipod, sometimes it s just... :lol: )

That's why I'm enjoying more and more people like Mauresmo, Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Kuznetsova and so on, as top players they re all working with the main sponsors but on court they re showing anything else, and that variety of style and technical hability, nobody from IMG or Octagon can teach it

I'm glad Worcester isn t at the WTA office anymore :)

vogus
Aug 25th, 2006, 05:30 PM
I hope players will never understand that value. I want to see tennis, not modelling or acting or whatever you a media star.

I found quite regressive to bring a few players and tell her to make publicity for Whirlpool (Women in the kitchen, very modern media plan... :rolleyes: ) and Sony Ericsson (They all look stupid smiling with a mobile phone or an ipod, sometimes it s just... :lol: )

That's why I'm enjoying more and more people like Mauresmo, Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, Kuznetsova and so on, as top players they re all working with the main sponsors but on court they re showing anything else, and that variety of style and technical hability, nobody from IMG or Octagon can teach it

I'm glad Worcester isn t at the WTA office anymore :)


great post :worship:

Jasmin
Aug 25th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Wow Hingis sure did a lot of things in the past. I can't believe she smacked somebody.:lol:

samn
Aug 25th, 2006, 07:33 PM
Big Masha and Lena D could pull each other's hair and rip each other's tops off for some boob action, too.

Masha? Boobs? What boobs?

If you want boob action, shouldn't your catfight of choice be Serena versus Tulyaganova.

samn
Aug 25th, 2006, 07:41 PM
[url]

A close second was her appearance in the 1999 French Open final, when Hingis called a bathroom break in the middle of her final against Steffi Graf, returned from the locker room with a new outfit and hairstyle, smashed her racket into the clay at one moment, underhanded her serve on Graf’s match point, slapped a W.T.A. official when she left the court and burst into tears when the French Open crowd booed her during the trophy presentation.



What? I've never heard of Hingis slapping an official before. Please tell me this is the writer trying to sensationalise the article or just poor research.

pav
Aug 25th, 2006, 08:45 PM
The whole article is summed up with what an old U.S.citizen explained to me once. "If it aint made in america I wont buy it, anything made elsewhere is just goddamn junk" I think now he will be having the same problem as the 'only identify with U.S. players fans' A whole lot of good stuff is being manufactured elsewhere in this world.

griffin
Aug 25th, 2006, 09:41 PM
What? I've never heard of Hingis slapping an official before. Please tell me this is the writer trying to sensationalise the article or just poor research.

Yes (sensationalism) and yes (poor research, what else is new) - and yes, she did "slap" someone, but from what I recall (the WTA actually investigated), it was accidental. Hingis was upset, wanted a little space, and tried to wave off an official who was trying to talk to her about the trophy presentation or something. It's not as if she hauled off and belted the woman, but there was some physical contact.