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TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 12:18 PM
:worship: :worship:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14391.htm
click link and watch the video interview :devil:


George Galloway - Hizbollah Is Not A Terrorist Organization

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

George Galloway has spoken out in support of Lebanon, saying he believes Hizbollah is justified in defending Lebanon against Israeli attacks . The Respect MP also lambasted media coverage of the war and said the UN resolution means nothing.

08/06/06 Runtime 9Minutes

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 12:21 PM
stick it too her George :devil:

SKY NEWS in UK is just like the devil's news in the US (FOX) :rolleyes:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Hizballah celebrates Israeli civilian casualties

Ideology

Hezbollah's ideology is rooted in the Shi’a tradition of Islam, specifically in the concept of “Willayat Al-Faqih” put forth by Ayatollah Khomeini and other Islamic scholars in Iran.

Hezbollah supports the destruction of the state of Israel[17][18][19]. Hassan Nasrallah has spoken in favour of the intifada[20] and has stated that"Israel is an illegal usurper entity, which is based on falsehood, massacres, and illusions, and there is no chance for its survival."[21]

Speaking at a graduation ceremony in Haret Hreik, Nasrallah announced on October 22, 2002: "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."[22][23] The New York Times qualifies this as "genocidal thinking"[24]. Michael Rubin qualifies his [Nasrallah's] goal as genocide too, quoting Nasrallah ruling out "co-existence with" the Jews or "peace", as "they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment."[25] The Age quotes him like so: "There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel."[26]

from Wikipedia.

Links:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012508.php
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=10923

Look at those quotes and tell me they are not a terrorist group.
I'm surprised you believe that, TBE. I didn't thought you have such
feelings against Israel.

spyro
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:03 PM
Hezbullah is ugly ... but Israel is way 100 times uglier ... We may say Hezbolah is a terrorist, and israel is like 100 x terrorist (They killed more than 800 people, what can i say) ... Pathetic!!!

Martian Willow
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Hezbullah is ugly ... but Israel is way 100 times uglier ... We may say Hezbolah is a terrorist, and israel is like 100 x terrorist (They killed more than 800 people, what can i say) ... Pathetic!!!

What does that make Indonesia? :)

Martian Willow
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:12 PM
George Galloway is a complete prick, and only muslims and TBE are stupid enough to take him seriously. :)

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:18 PM
George Galloway is a complete prick, and only muslims and TBE are stupid enough to take him seriously. :)

I'd rather believe him than Phoney Blair :rolleyes: :o

ptkten
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Maybe Israel has been wrong in this whole ordeal but I think Hizbollah perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group.

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:28 PM
stick it too her George :devil:

SKY NEWS in UK is just like the devil's news in the US (FOX) :rolleyes:

Why won't you go watch Al Manaar, I'm sure you'll enjoy them. they are a real TV station unlike those stupid and biased FOX and Sky News channels.

:rolleyes:

Stark
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:29 PM
Hezbullah is ugly ... but Israel is way 100 times uglier ... We may say Hezbolah is a terrorist, and israel is like 100 x terrorist (They killed more than 800 people, what can i say) ... Pathetic!!!

I agree!! Hezbollah are no saints but Israel is just as bad, the ratio of civilian deaths in Lebanon to those in Israel tells the story.

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:31 PM
I agree!! Hezbollah are no saints but Israel is just as bad, the ratio of civilian deaths in Lebanon to those in Israel tells the story.

Maybe if Hizbollah wouldn't use Lebanese citizens as their human shield there won't be so many civilian deaths :o

azdaja
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:33 PM
al qaeda fits the definition of a terrorist group more accurately than any other i can think of. hizbollah on the other hand is a very complex organisation and should not be described simply as "terrorist". whoever does that are kidding themselves.

Stark
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Maybe if Hizbollah wouldn't use Lebanese citizens as their human shield there won't be so many civilian deaths :o
You could rationalize it any way you want but the fact remains that you are killing lebanese civilians. Even if hezbollah is using civilians as a sheild, does it makes it okay to kill innocent people:rolleyes: What if a criminal was holding your mom hostage in a building would you agree on bombing the building? I won't be surprised at all if you say yes :rolleyes:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:45 PM
You could rationalize it any way you want but the fact remains that you are killing lebanese civilians. Even if hezbollah is using civilians as a sheild, does it makes it okay to kill innocent people:rolleyes: What if a criminal was holding your mom hostage in a building would you agree on bombing the building? I won't be surprised at all if you say yes :rolleyes:

Thats a whole different scenario!! what are you talking about??
the scenario that fits more is a criminal holding a policeman hostage who sits there anyway and lets him do whatever he want and that criminal shoots my mother!
wouldn't you bomb the whole building???

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:47 PM
Thats a whole different scenario!! what are you talking about??
the scenario that fits more is a criminal holding a policeman hostage who sits there anyway and lets him do whatever he want and that criminal shoots my mother!
wouldn't you bomb the whole building???

not according to the IDF it isnt :rolleyes:

they'd kill 100000 people of another country just to save one of their own :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

spyro
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:47 PM
What does that make Indonesia? :)

What do you mean, i don't get it ??? Pls add some more clear information ... Thank you :confused:

SelesFan70
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:48 PM
Thats a whole different scenario!! what are you talking about??
the scenario that fits more is a criminal holding a policeman hostage who sits there anyway and lets him do whatever he want and that criminal shoots my mother!
wouldn't you bomb the whole building???

No, some of the posters on here would give the criminal whatever he wanted...then try to reason and "understand" why the criminal is a criminal...then blame the government/police for not doing enough when the criminal kills their mother anyway. :help:

Sam L
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:50 PM
George Galloway is a complete prick, and only muslims and TBE are stupid enough to take him seriously. :)

:haha:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:50 PM
a second after i wrote the message the alarm went on and I had to go to the shelter. how ironic :o

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:52 PM
No, some of the posters on here would give the criminal whatever he wanted...then try to reason and "understand" why the criminal is a criminal...then blame the government/police for not doing enough when the criminal kills their mother anyway. :help:

:sad: :help:

Sam L
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:52 PM
a second after i wrote the message the alarm went on and I had to go to the shelter. how ironic :o
That's terrible. I hope you're ok.

TBE, stop with your anti-semitism. :mad: Hezbollah is terrorist group everyone knows that.

spyro
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:53 PM
a second after i wrote the message the alarm went on and I had to go to the shelter. how ironic :o

You're lucky then ... because alot of people in Lebanon don't have any kind of alarm or protection

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:55 PM
I'm okay, thank you. I'm used to it. Its the 4th one today I think.
I'm losing count :lol: :o

only alarm but no bombs this time, thank god. (speaking of god, where is he?)

TBE-Right now the IDF are defending a whole country, not just one person,
so where does this assumption come from?

spiceboy
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:57 PM
Anyone with a brain and a conscience knows that what Israel has done in this last few weeks is morally wrong and little more than mass murder on a large scale. Thousands of Lebanese children have died and a hundred thousand children have lost their homes and have no food or shelter :fiery:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:58 PM
You're lucky then ... because alot of people in Lebanon don't have any kind of alarm or protection

if I was a Lebanese I'll do anything to shut the Hizbollah down,
and if it won't work I'll go to another country.
I won't live in a country that terror rules it.

while saying that of course I'm sorry for all the Lebanese who died and my condolescenes to the families :sad:

SelesFan70
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Anyone with a brain and a conscience knows that what Israel has done in this last few weeks is morally wrong and little more than mass murder on a large scale. Thousands of Lebanese children have died and a hundred thousand children have lost their homes and have no food or shelter :fiery:

I'm crying a river :bigcry: :rolleyes:

The Lebanese government can easily stop this by NOT HARBORING HEZBOLLAH!

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Anyone with a brain and a conscience knows that what Israel has done in this last few weeks is morally wrong and little more than mass murder on a large scale. Thousands of Lebanese children have died and a hundred thousand children have lost their homes and have no food or shelter :fiery:

Wars are morally wrong and I wish they didn't exist. But sadly they do.

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:04 PM
That's terrible. I hope you're ok.

TBE, stop with your anti-semitism. :mad: Hezbollah is terrorist group everyone knows that.

just cos you believe that doesnt mean everyone has to :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

spiceboy
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Maybe if Hizbollah wouldn't use Lebanese citizens as their human shield there won't be so many civilian deaths :o

Both sides are allegedly trying to defend their homeland. However, when Israeli fire hits civilians, it's accidental (disagree?); when Hizbollah hits civilians, they've hit their target. Who does that make the terrorist? :tape:

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:05 PM
This draft shows who is running America's policy... Israel

By Robert Fisk

08/07/06 "The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1217413.ece)" -- -- So the great and the good on the East River laboured at the United Nations Security Council - and brought forth a lemon. You could almost hear the Lebanese groan at this draft resolution (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14394.htm), a document of such bias and mendacity that a close Lebanese friend read carefully through it yesterday, cursed and uttered the immortal question: "Don't these bastards learn anything from history?"

And there it all was again, the warmed-up peace proposals of Israel's 1982 invasion, full of buffer zones and disarmament and "strict respect by all parties" - a rousing chortle here, no doubt, from Hizbollah members - and the need for Lebanese sovereignty. It didn't even demand the withdrawal of Israeli forces, a point that Walid Moallem, Syria's Foreign Minister - and the man the Americans will eventually have to negotiate with - seized upon with more than alacrity. It was a dead UN resolution without a total Israeli retreat, he said on a strategic trip to Beirut.

A close analysis of the American-French draft - the fingerprints of John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, were almost smudging the paragraphs - showed just who is running Washington's Middle East policy: Israel. And one wondered how even Tony Blair would want to associate himself with this nonsense. It made no reference to the obscenely disproportionate violence employed by Israel - just a sleek reference to "hundreds of deaths and injuries on both sides" - and it made only passing reference to Hizbollah's demand that it would only release the two Israeli soldiers it captured on 12 July in return for Lebanese and other Arab prisoners in Israeli jails.

The Security Council said it was "mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts aimed at settling the issue [sic] of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel". I bet Hizbollah were impressed by the "mindful" bit, not to mention the "sensitivity" and the soft, slippery word "settle" - an issue which can be "settled" in maybe 20 years' time. Then came the real coup de grâce. A demand for the "total cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks" and the "immediate cessation" by Israel of "all offensive military operations". Bit of a problem there, as Hizbollah spotted at once. They have to lay down their arms.

Had the council demanded an immediate resolution on the future of the Shebaa farms, the Israeli-occupied territory which once belonged to mandate Lebanon - and for whose "liberation" the Hizbollah have fought - the whole fandango might have stood a chance. After all, Shebaa is the only raison d'être that the Hizbollah can produce for continuing their reckless, ruthless, illegal war across the UN blue line in southern Lebanon. But the UN document wished only to see a delineation of Lebanon's borders "including in the Shebaa farms area". There was even a wonderful paragraph - Number 9 for aficionados of UN bumf - which "calls on all parties to co-operate ... with the Security Council". So the Hizbollah are to co-operate, are they, with the austere diplomats of this august and wise body? Isn't that exalting a guerrilla army a little bit more upmarket than it deserves?

No one was fooled and few disagreed with Syria's Walid Moallem when he said the UN's draft resolution was "a recipe for continuing the war". As both the Hizbollah and the Israelis did yesterday, the former killing 13 Israelis and the latter bombing houses in Ansar - once an Israeli POW camp - which destroyed five more Lebanese civilian lives. Mohamed Fneish, a Hizbollah government minister - who scarcely represents all Lebanese but talks as if he does - thundered away about how "we" [presumably the Hizbollah, rather than the Lebanese] will abide by it [the resolution] on condition that no Israeli soldiers remains inside Lebanese land."

There were more Israeli air attacks on Beirut's southern suburbs yesterday - though heaven knows what is left there to destroy - ensuring that even more Shia Muslim civilians will remain refugees. Fearful that the Israelis will bomb their trucks and claim they were carrying missiles, the garbage collectors of this city have abandoned their vehicles and the familiar 1982 stench of burning rubbish now drifts through the evening streets. Petrol is now so scarce that a tank-full yesterday cost £250.

About the only gift to Lebanon in the UN resolution was the expressed need to provide the UN with remaining Israeli maps of landmines in Lebanon. But Israel has again dropped lethal ordnance all over southern Lebanon. Oh yes, and as usual, the UN draft on these ambitious, hopelessly conceived ideas "decides to remain actively seized of the matter". You bet it does. And so, as they say, the war goes on.

What the UN wants...

* A full cessation of hostilities based upon, in particular, the cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks and the cessation by Israel of all offensive military operations;

* Israel and Lebanon to support a permanent ceasefire and a long-term solution based on the following principles and elements:

* Strict respect by all parties for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Israel and Lebanon;

* Full respect for the Blue Line by both parties;

* Delineation of the international borders of Lebanon, especially in those areas where the border is disputed or uncertain, including in the Shebaa farms area;

* Security arrangements to prevent the resumption of hostilities, including the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Lebanese armed and security forces, and of UN-mandated international forces;

* Full implementation of the relevant provisions ... that require the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon;

* Deployment of an international force in Lebanon;

* The Secretary General to develop, in liaison with key international actors and the concerned parties, proposals to implement the relevant provisions ... and to present those proposals to the Security Council within 30 days;

* The UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), upon cessation of hostilities, to monitor its implementation and extend assistance to ensure humanitarian access to civilians and the safe return of displaced persons;

* The government of Lebanon to ensure arms or related material are not imported into Lebanon without its consent and requests UNIFIL, conditions permitting, to assist the government of Lebanon at its request;

* The Secretary-General to report to the Council within one week on the implementation and provide any relevant information in light of the Council's intention to adopt a further resolution.

spyro
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:06 PM
I'm crying a river :bigcry: :rolleyes:

The Lebanese government can easily stop this by NOT HARBORING HEZBOLLAH!

How could The Lebanese government works on this, while in the same time Israel bombing all the public service ... Israel blew the airport, highway, gas/oil supply, all the facility are broken ... And also in the same time, they could get hit by Israel air raid that could/used to 'accidently' target wrong area

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:07 PM
I'm crying a river :bigcry: :rolleyes:

The Lebanese government can easily stop this by NOT HARBORING HEZBOLLAH!

you harboured the IRA for how many years, did the UK go and bomb the shit out of US ??? they would have if the US was a 3rd world country by todays standards :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

spyro
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:12 PM
Wars are morally wrong and I wish they didn't exist. But sadly they do.

War is wrong, but it can be stopped :( ... And Israel doesn't want to stop that by refusing cease fire :rolleyes:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:14 PM
War is wrong, but it can be stopped :( ... And Israel doesn't want to stop that by refusing cease fire :rolleyes:

U.S came with a proposal to cease fire. Israel accepted it, Lebanon (or may I say Hizbollah) denied. FACT.

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:15 PM
Both sides are allegedly trying to defend their homeland. However, when Israeli fire hits civilians, it's accidental (disagree?); when Hizbollah hits civilians, they've hit their target. Who does that make the terrorist? :tape:

Who and why? :confused:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:18 PM
Lebanon: 40 civilians have died in IDF bombing.

..After a clarificarion, Hours later..

Lebanon: 1 civilians killed. (one too much, I agree, but thats not the point)

spiceboy
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:19 PM
To me it seems like since Israel was forced out of Palestine by the UN, they seem to be a little annoyed. Now that the rest of the world has basically said that "you can't have Palestine" they are now looking for a new area of land that they want. I don't think its basically coinscience that Israel has a little bit of land that reaches up into Lebanon just to the right as you look at the map.

Now wouldn't it be good is Israel could just claim the bit of land between the most northern point of that piece of land and extend their border out to the coast? I think that in about a month time, Israel will say that basically they want to create a buffer zone in that piece of land. They will move all of the Lebanon people north. Then in about 40 years they will slowly start to build settlements in that area. Sound familiar? :help:

Crazy Canuck
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Nice to see that TBE is keeping up on the news with Anti-Semite weekly.

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:26 PM
Lebanon: 40 civilians have died in IDF bombing.

..After a clarificarion, Hours later..

Lebanon: 1 civilians killed. (one too much, I agree, but thats not the point)

on the same subject:

Reuters admits to more image manipulation.
News organization withdraws photograph of Israeli fighter jet, admits image was doctored, fires photographer. Reuters pledges 'tighter editing procedure for images of the Middle East conflict'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287774,00.html

see why I don't trust the Lebanese reports?

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:29 PM
Nice to see that TBE is keeping up on the news with Anti-Semite weekly.

you can read all the anti-arab, pro US news all you like and you're called "the good guys" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Scots Kim Fan
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:30 PM
To be honest I don't know much about this topic but in previous occassions the stuff George Galloway has come out with has been out of order. I have no RESPECT for the man what so ever - which is irony in itself.

I'm ashamed to say we're from the same country.

spyro
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:32 PM
U.S came with a proposal to cease fire. Israel accepted it, Lebanon (or may I say Hizbollah) denied. FACT.


I'm getting confuse here ... i read many news, informing Isreal denied a cease fire ... and even US vetoed UN resolution

- Israelis refuse to end strikes on Hezbollah
By Ravi Nessman and Hamza Hendawi
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
08/01/2006
www.stltoday.com
- Rice: Lebanon cease-fire would be 'false promise'
www.cnn.com
Ed :Mark the 'would be' ... Paranoia ?

Crazy Canuck
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:34 PM
you can read all the anti-arab, pro US news all you like and you're called "the good guys" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
If you're going to insult me, you could at least know what it is that I read first.

This is like the time that you laughed at me for watching Fox News - we don't even get Fox News on cable in Canada, fuck ass ;)

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:35 PM
U.S came with a proposal to cease fire. Israel accepted it, Lebanon (or may I say Hizbollah) denied. FACT.

as Robert Fisk puts it
"The Security Council said it was "mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts aimed at settling the issue [sic] of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel". I bet Hizbollah were impressed by the "mindful" bit, not to mention the "sensitivity" and the soft, slippery word "settle" - an issue which can be "settled" in maybe 20 years' time. Then came the real coup de grâce. A demand for the "total cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks" and the "immediate cessation" by Israel of "all offensive military operations". Bit of a problem there, as Hizbollah spotted at once. They have to lay down their arms"

Apoleb
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:35 PM
"terrorist" has been a term applied to nearly whatever radical Islamic organization.

According to the EU, Hezbollah is still not classified as a terrorist organization. In fact, the US only classifies it as such because of certain events in the 80s and early 90s, like the kidnappings of reporters and diplomats and the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut. (Hezbollah denies those claims).

I think people should look up the definition of terrorism before they start blathering. A terrorist organization is an underground organization that usually attacks soft targets (like civilians) in order to put pressure on the state for political gains; certain Zionist organizations that operated in Palestine before Israel's independance totally fit this description. Hezbollah since the 1990s has been fighting according to them for the liberation of Southern Lebanon, and the Israelis pulled out, their position was that they were fighting for the liberation of the Shebaa Farms and Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails.

So clearly, Hezbollah being a "terrorist" organization is not a given since the 1990s. They are an armed guerilla group that is nearly totally involved in Lebanese politics.

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:36 PM
If you're going to insult me, you could at least know what it is that I read first.

This is like the time that you laughed at me for watching Fox News - we don't even get Fox News on cable in Canada, fuck ass ;)

Canada's too scared to do anything and just suck up to the US

EDITif you had some fuel and refused to do what US said
US would be bombing you guys also and calling Canada an "Axis of Evil" as well :o

Crazy Canuck
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:39 PM
Canada's too scared to do anything and just suck up to the US

Yeah, that time that we went to war on Iraq recently was awesome! Oh, wait...

if you had some fuel, US would be bombing you guys also.

Do you even know what you're talking about half of the time? Are you actually the stupidest man alive, or are you just playin' us? :confused:

Diam's
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:40 PM
The Lebanese government can easily stop this by NOT HARBORING HEZBOLLAH!

and launching another civil war :rolleyes:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I'm getting confuse here ... i read many news, informing Isreal denied a cease fire ... and even US vetoed UN resolution

- Israelis refuse to end strikes on Hezbollah
By Ravi Nessman and Hamza Hendawi
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
08/01/2006
www.stltoday.com
- Rice: Lebanon cease-fire would be 'false promise'
www.cnn.com
Ed :Mark the 'would be' ... Paranoia ?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287215,00.html

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:45 PM
Bit of a problem there, as Hizbollah spotted at once. They have to lay down their arms"

They will eventually, so better do it in peace than after a fight.

spiceboy
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:48 PM
They will eventually, so better do it in peace than after a fight.

That just explains how fascist Israel is, you cant be serious when an entire country has turned into rubbles for the sake of eliminating the Hizbollah...

Crazy Canuck
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:49 PM
For the life of me, I simply cannot understand why people keep speaking of Hezbollah as though they are an entity entirely seperate from Lebanon.

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:50 PM
That just explains how fascist Israel is, you cant be serious when an entire country has turned into rubbles for the sake of eliminating the Hizbollah...

I don't speak for Israel, I speak only for myself.

When the Hizbollah is bombing constantly (before the war began) and kidnapping our soldiers, than we must do anything to disarm them while hurting as less civilians as possible. Lebanon army chose to help the Hizbollah instead of colleberating with Israel and finally disarm the Hizbollah, its their decision.

Cashif
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:51 PM
if I was a Lebanese I'll do anything to shut the Hizbollah down,
and if it won't work I'll go to another country.
I won't live in a country that terror rules it.

while saying that of course I'm sorry for all the Lebanese who died and my condolescenes to the families :sad:
Yea your condolescenes will bring back all the innocent civilans , who have been dead:rolleyes:

The amount of civilians killed in Lebanon with respect to soldiers is just terrible..So much for precision missiles being used by Israelis that over 500 civilians have been killed for few soldiers(100?) whereas Hezbollah have been firing rockets without any aim(according to media) and they have killed equal no. of civlians and soldiers..Are the Israelis delebrately targetting the civilians, I wonder?

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Yea your condolescenes will bring back all the innocent civilans , who have been dead:rolleyes:

The amount of civilians killed in Lebanon with respect to soldiers is just terrible..So much for precision missiles being used by Israelis that over 500 civilians have been killed for few soldiers(100?) whereas Hezbollah have been firing rockets without any aim(according to media) and they have killed equal no. of civlians and soldiers..Are the Israelis delebrately targetting the civilians, I wonder?

No they won't, but at least I'm human and feel sorry for civilans killed.

They are not "delebrately targetting the civilians", they warn the civilians to evacuate before every attack.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:57 PM
Yea your condolescenes will bring back all the innocent civilans , who have been dead:rolleyes:


How callous.

Your incessant whining and poor grasp on the reality of the subject won't do anything to bring them back either, but I would never deny you the right to either of those things.

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 7th, 2006, 04:57 PM
No they won't, but at least I'm human and feel sorry for civilans killed.

They are not "delebrately targetting the civilians", they warn the civilians to evacuate before every attack.

then they drop bombs on their transport :rolleyes: :rolleyes: not to mention Ambulances and rescue teams.
then come out with the same garbage "it was Hizbollah" in the vehicles :o :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and they cant escape cos you've blown the bloody bridges/roads to pieces :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:02 PM
then they drop bombs on their transport :rolleyes: :rolleyes: not to mention Ambulances and rescue teams.

I've never heard of that

and they cant escape cos you've blown the bloody bridges/roads to pieces :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

That was so their neighbours won't help them and send weapons to them.
Have you seen CNN? How much civilians escaped through planes that U.N sends together collaberating with the IDF?

Cashif
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:06 PM
No they won't, but at least I'm human and feel sorry for civilans killed.

They are not "delebrately targetting the civilians", they warn the civilians to evacuate before every attack.
So u are saying that just by a warning u can attack anyone huh? Anyways as TBE has said, Israelis after warnings have destroyed all the exit routes and bridges :sad:

As for crazy_whatever, iam not insensitve, i am very sad and I wish that this war would end as early as possible without any more casualities..Its just that iam very angry and upset about the fact that no one is giving a damn about the Lebanese citizens..The whole news is about how 2/3 Israelis have been killed whereas 100s of Lebanese are getting killed everyday..Does the life of Arabs(Muslim) have no meaning/Value????

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:06 PM
I just find it hard to believe that the 'lefties' group and world will go through such actions in silence, usually we are getting shit from all over the world with every mistake we make (rightfully if I may add)

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:10 PM
So u are saying that just by a warning u can attack anyone huh? Anyways as TBE has said, Israelis after warnings have destroyed all the exit routes and bridges :sad:

Of course not, but those places must be bombed
(not hospitals and ambulances of course)
and warnings are the best way of doing it,
although not perfect of course.

samsung101
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Mr. Galloway has once again proven he's an idiot.

Just because a group that aligns itself with
Hezbollah has a few seats in the fledling Lebanese
govt., doesn't mean the overall stance of it is not
violent or terroristic.

Hezbollaha and Hamas have both stated repeatedly
their desire to see Israel wiped out, and the West
as well, ditto for the current leadership of Iran.

Mr. Galloway is so bent on hating the USA and
Israel, he can't see straight, or wants to ignore
reality.

He's been proven to be a liar to Congress.

Licking milk from a dish on tv was probably the
last one should have seen of him.

Why take this man seriously anymore?

Lord Nelson
Aug 7th, 2006, 06:01 PM
What do you mean, i don't get it ??? Pls add some more clear information ... Thank you :confused:
Indonesia killed many East Timorese people when they voted for independance. Human Rights Watch say that around 10'000 of them were killed during the 15 year occupation by Indonesia. You blame Netherlands for colonizing Indonesia but you people did the samething with East Timor.

Martian Willow
Aug 7th, 2006, 06:04 PM
You're lucky then ... because alot of people in Lebanon don't have any kind of alarm or protection

Yes they do. They just have to look out of their window. If theres a Hezbollah rocket launcher outside, they're probably going to get bombed.

Martian Willow
Aug 7th, 2006, 06:12 PM
I just find it hard to believe that the 'lefties' group and world will go through such actions in silence, usually we are getting shit from all over the world with every mistake we make (rightfully if I may add)

Please don't confuse the likes of Galloway and his ignorant reactionary Blairhating fanclub with 'the left'. Thanks. :)

Lord Nelson
Aug 7th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Please don't confuse the likes of Galloway and his ignorant reactionary Blairhating fanclub with 'the left'. Thanks. :)
Actually most of Galloways electorate are conservatives........Muslim conservatives from Britain that is.
That is how he still remains in his constituency.

Meteor Shower
Aug 7th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Please don't confuse the likes of Galloway and his ignorant reactionary Blairhating fanclub with 'the left'. Thanks. :)

I meant 'the left' in Israel. :)_

Pathethic group who moans and protest about every
move that the government do.
The ones who called for talks and giving lands
for peace, but look where it got us now.

I think its just group of people who crave for attention.
sad really.

sapir1434
Aug 7th, 2006, 09:50 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

Good laugh :yeah:


:rolleyes: If Hezbollah isn't a terrorist organization so I don't know what is :rolleyes: :rolleyes: this men is totally silly, and so is whoever thinks the same. :fiery: :fiery:

JustineTime
Aug 7th, 2006, 10:09 PM
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter



YAY!!! Hizbullah are freedom fighters....fighting to the death "free" every Jew from his/her miserable non-Muslim life! :hearts: :hug: :yeah:

DevilishAttitude
Aug 7th, 2006, 10:40 PM
OK, I don't care about this war at all and don't know much of the details.

But really, NO ONE should take George Galloway seriously after he appeared on CBB and acted like a cat. He was also a moron and very up himself. He was called a *cheating politcian* on there :tape:

He prove politicians can't mux with reality.

Philip
Aug 8th, 2006, 02:08 AM
wow, that interview is shocking.
but... both have valid arguments.

JustineTime
Aug 8th, 2006, 04:39 AM
From the horse's mouth:

http://www.shoebat.com/media/walidmovie801_1.wmv

But you lefties still won't believe it, will ya? :tape:

SilK
Aug 8th, 2006, 09:53 AM
"terrorist" has been a term applied to nearly whatever radical Islamic organization.

According to the EU, Hezbollah is still not classified as a terrorist organization. In fact, the US only classifies it as such because of certain events in the 80s and early 90s, like the kidnappings of reporters and diplomats and the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut. (Hezbollah denies those claims).

I think people should look up the definition of terrorism before they start blathering. A terrorist organization is an underground organization that usually attacks soft targets (like civilians) in order to put pressure on the state for political gains; certain Zionist organizations that operated in Palestine before Israel's independance totally fit this description. Hezbollah since the 1990s has been fighting according to them for the liberation of Southern Lebanon, and the Israelis pulled out, their position was that they were fighting for the liberation of the Shebaa Farms and Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails.

So clearly, Hezbollah being a "terrorist" organization is not a given since the 1990s. They are an armed guerilla group that is nearly totally involved in Lebanese politics.

Funny how this post was completely ignored. Good post.

Xanadu11
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:28 AM
It's sad that people can't respond with anything else then :rolleyes: or petty retaliatory comments 'but what about...' Better yet any critique of Israel or anyone who decides to look a both sides is labeled anti-semetic. These are the kind of arguments of people who have no argument but like to say things to take up space.

George Gallowy is a bit of a tool, but that blonde chick :o :tape: For once I agreed with him a bit, I wouldn't go as far to say i'm on hezbelloh's side.

mandy7
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:32 AM
hmm
well, i reckon they both (hezb. & isr. ) suck
make love, not war people

Meteor Shower
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:42 AM
Funny how this post was completely ignored. Good post.

well, the facts in the post are true, but they
don't contradicts my posts. Hizbollah is still a terrorist
group despite all Jorje286 said.

Fact is Hizbollah targets civilians and enjoy
killing them, and they say they would like to wipe
Israelis off the map in every chance they have.

fighting for the liberation of Southern Lebanon, is only
a small part of Hizbollah idelogy, killing Israelis
is the another one, simple as that.

"if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

Meteor Shower
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:46 AM
It's sad that people can't respond with anything else then :rolleyes: or petty retaliatory comments 'but what about...' Better yet any critique of Israel or anyone who decides to look a both sides is labeled anti-semetic. These are the kind of arguments of people who have no argument but like to say things to take up space.

George Gallowy is a bit of a tool, but that blonde chick :o :tape: For once I agreed with him a bit, I wouldn't go as far to say i'm on hezbelloh's side.

:confused:
You say we don't give enough reasons for our opinion,
but you, yourself, are saying 'I agree with him a bit' but don't say why?

Anyway, I didn't call anyone anti-semetic.

SilK
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:49 AM
well, the facts in the post are true, but they
don't contradicts my posts. Hizbollah is still a terrorist
group despite all Jorje286 said.

Fact is Hizbollah targets civilians and enjoy
killing them, and they say they would like to wipe
Israelis off the map in every chance they have.

fighting for the liberation of Southern Lebanon, is only
a small part of Hizbollah idelogy, killing Israelis
is the another one, simple as that.

"if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

Don't mean to ignore your entire post, but that quote is not recent, is it? I might be mistaking, but it's from the 90's right?

Anyway, of course I have an opinion about everything that is going on. But I like to keep an open view. I'm not going to pick a side either. When I look at what Hizbollah does for it's own people it's hard to believe they are ONLY a terrorist organisation, IF they are that in the first place.

There is no side to choose in this conflict, there is no RIGHT in any of it. It's all wrong.

Meteor Shower
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:56 AM
Don't mean to ignore your entire post, but that quote is not recent, is it? I might be mistaking, but it's from the 90's right?

Anyway, of course I have an opinion about everything that is going on. But I like to keep an open view. I'm not going to pick a side either. When I look at what Hizbollah does for it's own people it's hard to believe they are ONLY a terrorist organisation, IF they are that in the first place.

There is no side to choose in this conflict, there is no RIGHT in any of it. It's all wrong.

Well according to wikipedia:
Speaking at a graduation ceremony in Haret Hreik, Nasrallah announced on October 22, 2002: "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."[22][23]

what do you mean by 'what Hizbollah does for it's own people'?
I thought the Lebanese see Hizbollah as a burden and want them gone, thats whats the goverment is trying to project to the world anyway.

SilK
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:06 AM
Well according to wikipedia:
Speaking at a graduation ceremony in Haret Hreik, Nasrallah announced on October 22, 2002: "if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."[22][23]

what do you mean by 'what Hizbollah does for it's own people'?
I thought the Lebanese see Hizbollah as a burden and want them gone, thats whats the goverment is trying to project to the world anyway.

Wikipedia is not the most reliable source. But I'm not saying he didn't say that. If he did. he's a genocidal craving lunatic.

I can not look inside the minds of the Lebanese people. I am sure though that some of them see Hizbollah as a burden and others see Hizbollah as their 'saviours'. Anyway, the Lebanese government is strongly lacking in every way possible when it comes to this conflict.

Meteor Shower
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:10 AM
Wikipedia is not the most reliable source. But I'm not saying he didn't say that. If he did. he's a genocidal craving lunatic.

believe me, he said it.
the video was all over the news then.

Anyway, the Lebanese government is strongly lacking in every way possible when it comes to this conflict.

so true :yeah:
I mean, I can understand that you don't want
civil war. but there is Israel to help you!
would you rather join the terrorists or finally defeat them?
all these years they are saying they want to get rid of them
but when its suddently the time.. :tape:

Xanadu11
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:13 AM
:confused:
You say we don't give enough reasons for our opinion,
but you, yourself, are saying 'I agree with him a bit' but don't say why?

Anyway, I didn't call anyone anti-semetic.

My bad. Some of the reasons I agree with some of what he said.

* The masacre in Qana, was when Israel's response became no longer just dispproportionate, but a war crime (based on international law- I'm not stating my opinion or anything)

*the systematic destruction of Lebanon also falls into this jurisdiction

* While I will not go as far as some to say that Hizballah isn't a terrorist organisation, I will at least say that due to the nature of the conflict it can be contested as they did emerge as a result of the occupation of South Lebanon in the 80s.

Moreover, just in case I wasn't clear I wasn't saying people need to give more reasons I was just speaking generally about what happens when they kind of topics arise. Havn't we gone beyond this neolithic yet?

Meteor Shower
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:26 AM
I don't agree with the second point but
I can understand why you agree with this points.
Still, despite the validity of the points, it doesn't
change that Hizbollah fits to a terrorist group definition
because of the idelogy and actions.

Well, I think that because there is such difference between the group of
posters here, that it will always cause fights and those sorts of reply.
Both side are a bit extreme, and its a sensetive issue.

JustineTime
Aug 8th, 2006, 12:38 PM
http://www.shoebat.com/media/walidmovie801_1.wmv?PHPSESSID=547bc8fa399319fafab1 3625221dcf3c

hablo
Aug 8th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Canada's too scared to do anything and just suck up to the US

EDITif you had some fuel and refused to do what US said
US would be bombing you guys also and calling Canada an "Axis of Evil" as well :o
Oh please, we do have OIL in Alberta but since Harper/ the Conservatives adore Bush, there would be no need for the Americans to invades us, we (Conservatives/Harper) already embrace them with open arms, frankly that mockery of a party is making us look like puppets on the international scene more than we ever have before :o :tape:

I'm just glad that Harper can't call an early election to get a majority government anymore (the Liberal party is in shambles at the moment trying to find a leader) : we have lots of lebanese people in Quebec and he is losing ground in Ontario as well :lol::aparty:

mykarma
Aug 8th, 2006, 04:31 PM
a second after i wrote the message the alarm went on and I had to go to the shelter. how ironic :o
How fortunate you are to be able to come back and log onto a discussion board.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:16 PM
How fortunate you are to be able to come back and log onto a discussion board.
You write that as if you either don't believe him or actually consider it unfortunate that he came back :)

Crazy Canuck
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:18 PM
From the horse's mouth:

http://www.shoebat.com/media/walidmovie801_1.wmv

But you lefties still won't believe it, will ya? :tape:
For the life of me, I still can't figure out why you use this conflict as yet another platform through which you can hate on "lefties", considering that a good number of people on the left actually are proisrael :confused:

Meteor Shower
Aug 8th, 2006, 11:32 PM
You write that as if you either don't believe him or actually consider it unfortunate that he came back :)

exactly what I wondered,
but I thought maybe I'm just parnoid so its better not respond :o

Volcana
Aug 9th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Maybe Israel has been wrong in this whole ordeal but I think Hizbollah perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group.You mean building and staffing hospitals and schools, paying civil servants, getting food and water to refugees 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group'? WHere DO you come from? Jupiter?

The entire problem with Hezbollah is that they DON'T 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group.' Go do some research on the 'Sendero Luminoso' of Peru. Or the KKK in the USA between 1875 and 1955.

Hezbollah is a humanitarian organization, a political movement AND a mititant resistance movement. And they share one VERY disturbing trait with the Israelis. Both the militant wing of Hezbollah, and the IDF, define as legitemate targets persons who virtually anyone else would call non-combatants.

That is, however, like saying a murderer is also a heart-surgeon who's saved countless lives. You still prosecute the guy for murder. However, in this case, we'd have to prosecute BOTH sides for murder.

borisy
Aug 9th, 2006, 12:58 AM
Hizbollah is a terrorist organisation, so is the Israeli government.

spyro
Aug 9th, 2006, 01:28 AM
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287215,00.html

Is it me, or you always use www.ynetnews.com (http://www.ynetnews.com) as your sources ... ???

For this kind of situation, pls find the source from like neutral news site ... I always try to find news from Yahoo, CNN and other neutral news center ...
I can bring news from Arab News, but i won't ....

spyro
Aug 9th, 2006, 01:31 AM
Indonesia killed many East Timorese people when they voted for independance. Human Rights Watch say that around 10'000 of them were killed during the 15 year occupation by Indonesia. You blame Netherlands for colonizing Indonesia but you people did the samething with East Timor.


:bounce: Woo pls give me the source of the news ??? Pls find any authentic news for it .... You've PMed me about this one, but when i asked you about prove, your never gave me .... :rolleyes:

What a lame!!!

You want info about Netherlands for colonizing Indonesia, they colonized Indonesia for about 350 Years .... you can find the news at any where

Fingon
Aug 9th, 2006, 04:22 AM
You mean building and staffing hospitals and schools, paying civil servants, getting food and water to refugees 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group'? WHere DO you come from? Jupiter?

The entire problem with Hezbollah is that they DON'T 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group.' Go do some research on the 'Sendero Luminoso' of Peru. Or the KKK in the USA between 1875 and 1955.

Hezbollah is a humanitarian organization, a political movement AND a mititant resistance movement. And they share one VERY disturbing trait with the Israelis. Both the militant wing of Hezbollah, and the IDF, define as legitemate targets persons who virtually anyone else would call non-combatants.

That is, however, like saying a murderer is also a heart-surgeon who's saved countless lives. You still prosecute the guy for murder. However, in this case, we'd have to prosecute BOTH sides for murder.


When I was living in Argentina, Hezbollah blew up the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires. Argentina had nothing to do with the situation in Lebanon, yet, Hezbollah couldn't care less, let's kill jews no matter what.

Later, they blew up the building of the AMIA, a jewish charity.

Please don't tell me they are freedom fighters, we can argue about Israel, but Hezbollah is one of the most despicable terrorist organizations that have ever existed, I still have fresh in my mind the images of those buildings destroyed, with innocent people that weren't even jews dying because Hezbollah wanted to hurt Israel. I will be happy when the last Hezbollah member is dead, I don't forget/forgive easily. I don't care about all the charity work they do, they have to otherwise they wouldn't get protection from the civilian population, they are murderers of the worse case and I truely hope the Israelis finish the job this time.

And Shnning Path (sendero luminoso) is a bad example, one of the most ruthless and cruel terrorist groups that ever existed, they didn't target the multinationals or the army, they targetted poor farmers whose only sin was to vote, they would cut off their hands, they would assassinate children just because their fathers didn't obey their orders. Abimael Guzman, their leader had multiple women and they make the poor people in Ayacucho their slaves.

And no, I didn't watch it on CNN or Fox.

Regarding the KKK, I do think it was a terrorist organization, wasn't its purpose to terrorize the black population or even whites who helped blacks?

Trust me, if it was in my power, I would give the KKK members no better treatment than to Hezbollah or Sendero luminoso members, and it wouldn't be nice. I believe cancer has to be extirpated.

Meteor Shower
Aug 9th, 2006, 08:40 AM
Is it me, or you always use www.ynetnews.com (http://www.ynetnews.com) as your sources ... ???

For this kind of situation, pls find the source from like neutral news site ... I always try to find news from Yahoo, CNN and other neutral news center ...
I can bring news from Arab News, but i won't ....

what's the difference?
Israeli press never lies, unlike some others.
It is just more easy for me because all the news
there are about Israel.

Meteor Shower
Aug 9th, 2006, 08:50 AM
You mean building and staffing hospitals and schools, paying civil servants, getting food and water to refugees 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group'? WHere DO you come from? Jupiter?

The entire problem with Hezbollah is that they DON'T 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group.' Go do some research on the 'Sendero Luminoso' of Peru. Or the KKK in the USA between 1875 and 1955.

Hezbollah is a humanitarian organization, a political movement AND a mititant resistance movement. And they share one VERY disturbing trait with the Israelis. Both the militant wing of Hezbollah, and the IDF, define as legitemate targets persons who virtually anyone else would call non-combatants.

That is, however, like saying a murderer is also a heart-surgeon who's saved countless lives. You still prosecute the guy for murder. However, in this case, we'd have to prosecute BOTH sides for murder.

Using all their earnings and money donated
for building a community for developing weapons (instead of
building schools and homes), talking about destroying
a country. thats fit to a terrorist group for me.

Hezbollah is a humanitarian organization :haha:
That's weird because their actions are far from being humanitarian.

what do you mean 'to prosecute BOTH sides for murder'? the heart-surgeon and the patients? because there will be another heart-surgeon to replace the murderer, you know.

spyro
Aug 9th, 2006, 09:13 AM
what's the difference?
Israeli press never lies, unlike some others.
It is just more easy for me because all the news
there are about Israel.

You may think they don't lie ... i don't tell that the media is lying ... But, it's better to give a picture from a neutral media .. Not a from Israel Media or Lebanon Media ... As your can see, there is a diff information, while on your Media Lebanon refused cease fire, but on the Media i gave you Israel refuse the cease fire :rolleyes:

I appreacite if you can give me link about Lebanon refuse to cease fire

Meteor Shower
Aug 9th, 2006, 09:22 AM
You may think they don't lie ... i don't tell that the media is lying ... But, it's better to give a picture from a neutral media .. Not a from Israel Media or Lebanon Media ... As your can see, there is a diff information, while on your Media Lebanon refused cease fire, but on the Media i gave you Israel refuse the cease fire :rolleyes:

I appreacite if you can give me link about Lebanon refuse to cease fire

here, read this:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1223731,00.html

Lord Nelson
Aug 9th, 2006, 12:09 PM
:bounce: Woo pls give me the source of the news ??? Pls find any authentic news for it .... You've PMed me about this one, but when i asked you about prove, your never gave me .... :rolleyes:

What a lame!!!

You want info about Netherlands for colonizing Indonesia, they colonized Indonesia for about 350 Years .... you can find the news at any where
East Timor was a colony of Indonesia from 1975 to 1999. Oh and please don't lie. You did not ask me anything. In fact this is your first response I get from you. I will send you the sources to you my PM. It will probably come to a shock to you since Indonesia will keep this secret though the rest of the world knows this.

spyro
Aug 9th, 2006, 02:46 PM
East Timor was a colony of Indonesia from 1975 to 1999. Oh and please don't lie. You did not ask me anything. In fact this is your first response I get from you. I will send you the sources to you my PM. It will probably come to a shock to you since Indonesia will keep this secret though the rest of the world knows this.

Hehe, you completely don't know History. Since East Timor joined Indonesia (Legally), Timor got a lot of Development from the country, many miles of road been build, telecomunication spread out ... and anything else. But at the same time, some militant that didn't want to be under Indonesia keep practicing a riot. Indonesia did the best for the last province (Timor), but time after time the militant getting strong and we don't want any fight.

So in 1999 there was a referendum, and the result around 78% wants to separate the province from Indonesia, so we let East Timor be independent. As Indonesian i was sad to get our area left us, but it may be for the best of many Citizen there.

Now East Timor has been Independent for about 7 years, and i don't see any development at that country, some East Timor people still getting the Food from Indonesia Market, they cross the border to buy some vegetables and rice, because the price is lower in Indonesia ... And did you read news about East timor lately, there was a big riot few months back, the PM deposed ...

That's the story, you could make the summary of what Indonesia did to East Timor in the past, now and then ... and until now, we still open arm at the border because we still feel that there were one of us ...



enough about my country i guess ... back to topic

spyro
Aug 9th, 2006, 03:12 PM
here, read this:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1223731,00.html

thank you, but reading the Link seems like this is a new proposal, i was talking and gave the link for Cease Fire order from the UN about 1 or 2 weeks ago. There are many history about the cease fire right here at Wtaworld seems they opened many threads for this matter, yous could search.

Related to 1-2 weeks ago cease fire proposal, one paragraph on that link mentioned :
"At the same time, by adopting the language of "cease-fire" — the rallying cry of U.S. critics in recent weeks — Washington may simply be hoping to deflect some of the pressure from European and Arab allies over its efforts to buy the Israeli military more time to finish the job."

Hopefully, with this new proposal both side can hold them self ...
One part of the proposal said : "allows Israeli forces to remain in southern Lebanon — and to take any action they deem defensively necessary — until the arrival of an international force"

I believe international force is ready now, they couldn't go there since Israel is still fighting on the area ... That part makes thing unclear ...

samsung101
Aug 9th, 2006, 03:24 PM
The 'respected' MP.

Didn't he lose what little respect he had when
he purred like a kitty and drank milk out of a
dish on tv?

He is right about one thing: the UN resolution
does mean nothing.

Because the UN is meaningless, useless, and
a vehicle of futility.

Hezbollah was, is, and always will be a gang
of terrorists, and I hope Israel kills as many
of them as possible while they can.

Sam L
Aug 9th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Hezbollah is a humanitarian organization, a political movement AND a mititant resistance movement.

Pathetic. They are a terrorist group. :(

Lord Nelson
Aug 9th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Hehe, you completely don't know History. Since East Timor joined Indonesia (Legally), Timor got a lot of Development from the country, many miles of road been build, telecomunication spread out ... and anything else. But at the same time, some militant that didn't want to be under Indonesia keep practicing a riot. Indonesia did the best for the last province (Timor), but time after time the militant getting strong and we don't want any fight.

So in 1999 there was a referendum, and the result around 78% wants to separate the province from Indonesia, so we let East Timor be independent. As Indonesian i was sad to get our area left us, but it may be for the best of many Citizen there.

Now East Timor has been Independent for about 7 years, and i don't see any development at that country, some East Timor people still getting the Food from Indonesia Market, they cross the border to buy some vegetables and rice, because the price is lower in Indonesia ... And did you read news about East timor lately, there was a big riot few months back, the PM deposed ...

That's the story, you could make the summary of what Indonesia did to East Timor in the past, now and then ... and until now, we still open arm at the border because we still feel that there were one of us ...
Hohoho, thank for the nice laugh, you are good with jokes. ;)
The UN never recognized East Timor as being part of Indonesia which was illegally seized and occupied. You bitch about Israel yet your country did the samething. I am glad that East Timor got its independance and I can assure you I was interested in the region prior to 1999. Oh don't worry about the East Timorese, they can handle themselves. They have oil reserves and eventually they will be able to stabilize their country despite the financing of militias by the Indonesians. :tape:

Having said that I have respect for your leader BJ Habibe. It was very courageous what he did. Cost him the Presidency though. Also the current leader of yours is not bad either. On the economic level, he has cut back on oil subsidies. He is an improvement on Megawati Sukarnoputri.

Alright that is all I had to say on Indonesia. Sorry I had to get that out of my system.

Volcana
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:01 PM
Pathetic. They are a terrorist group. :(I agree you're pathetic. At any time in your entire life have you ever researched anything instead regurgitating the most simplistic platitudes you can find?

How awful for you that the world insists on being complex instead of simple.

The discussion was whether of not Hezbollah 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group'?

They hold 14 seats in the Lebanese parliament (out of 128) and two ministerial posts. How many 'terrorist' groups hold over ten percents of the parliamentary seats in the country where they're based? How many provide the hospsitals and school, ambulance and postal services?

What OTHER 'terrorist' organization does all those things?

JustineTime
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Because the UN is meaningless, useless, and
a vehicle of futility.

Hezbollah was, is, and always will be a gang
of terrorists, and I hope Israel kills as many
of them as possible while they can.

...while John Bolton & Kofi Annan waltz on the head of a pin long enough to give Israel all the time it needs to FINISH the job! :tape: :yeah:

Volcana
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Please don't tell me they are freedom fighters, we can argue about Israel, but Hezbollah is one of the most despicable terrorist organizations that have ever existedWell, I was comparing them to Sendero Luminoso. I certainly agree that Hezbollah has committed many terrorist acts. I'm simply pointing out they do positive things as well. We aren't much in disagreement about them, actually. You at least concede that they actually do some charity work.
And Shnning Path (sendero luminoso) is a bad example, one of the most ruthless and cruel terrorist groups that ever existedMore typical, however, of terrorist groups as a whole. But yeah, I went to the bottom of the barrel for that one.

I believe cancer has to be extirpated.Neither the Israelis nor Hezbollah would disagree.

The analogy, incidentally, is especially apt. The problem with cancer is the amount of living tissue you have to excise to get all of the cancer. Take too much, and you kill the patient.

Apoleb
Aug 9th, 2006, 07:18 PM
Hezbollah most certainly doesn't perfectly fit the definition of a terrorist organization. Even Fox is calling it a "guerilla group."

As I already said (and as Silk said my post got ignored for a reason ;) ), the EU doesn't classify it as a terrorist organization. The US only does so because it accuses it of kidnapping reporters and bombing the US embassy in Beirut among other things in the 80s and early 90s. Hezbollah denies those claims.

Hezbollah's ideology of radical Islamism doesn't make it a terrorist organization either, that is if people want to stick to an objective definition of terrorism. Ofcourse, if people want to use the word simply as equivalent to "evil bastards that we hate," it's another story.

There are many extremist parties in the parliaments of nearly all countries. Let's not forget that Jean-marie Le Pen reached the second round of the French presidential elections, and let's also not forget that there are many parties in the Knesset that advocate the forceful expulsion of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza. And didn't the Israeli minister of tourism at one point make an official proposal for ethnic cleansing all Arabs in the West Bank? Is he a terrorist? That's not a lot different from Hezbollah's goal to destroy Israel; at least Hezbollah is advocating the destruction of Israel as a political entitity and not the expulsion of Jews.

I'm by no way defending Hezbollah's ideology in any shape or form. They are the worst thing to have happened to Lebanon in the last 2 decades as their extremist ideology is against everything I stand for. But "terrorism" has been used left and right since 911 mainly as political blathering.

Sam L
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:40 AM
I certainly agree that Hezbollah has committed many terrorist acts. I'm simply pointing out they do positive things as well. We aren't much in disagreement about them, actually. You at least concede that they actually do some charity work.

The Nazis did A LOT of good stuff for the German people too. I suppose you agree with them also.

And you said Hezbollah has committed many terrorist acts. Then they are a terrorist group! There are good sides and bad sides to everyone, just because they do good it doesn't mean we should be lenient to them.

The KKK did a lot of charity work for white people too. I'd love to see you defending their actions.

Face it, you like the Hezbollah doesn't want Israel to exist. That's the bottomline. But I'm glad Israel won't have any of it.

JustineTime
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:46 AM
http://www.shoebat.com/media/walidmovie801_1.wmv?PHPSESSID=547bc8fa399319fafab1 3625221dcf3c

Volcana
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:57 AM
The Nazis did A LOT of good stuff for the German people too.Like what? Please provide links to source material.

The KKK did a lot of charity work for white people too.
Like what? Please provide links to source material.

As an avid defender of the Nazis and the KKK, you should have no trouble providing source material for all the good they've done. Until you do however, your position is bullshit. Go ahead. We're all waiting.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:58 AM
The Nazis did A LOT of good stuff for the German people too. I suppose you agree with them also.

And you said Hezbollah has committed many terrorist acts. Then they are a terrorist group! There are good sides and bad sides to everyone, just because they do good it doesn't mean we should be lenient to them.

The KKK did a lot of charity work for white people too. I'd love to see you defending their actions.

Face it, you like the Hezbollah doesn't want Israel to exist. That's the bottomline. But I'm glad Israel won't have any of it.
We're in basic agreement on this subject, for the most part... and I do feel that there are a lot of people who speak out against Israel in here whom would love to see them wiped off the map *cough*TBE*cough*

I have to disagree with you that Volcana is one of them, though. :)

Lord Nelson
Aug 10th, 2006, 11:48 AM
Like what? Please provide links to source material.


Like what? Please provide links to source material.

As an avid defender of the Nazis and the KKK, you should have no trouble providing source material for all the good they've done. Until you do however, your position is bullshit. Go ahead. We're all waiting.
Under the Nazis, the unemployment rate was near bottom because Nazis economy was socialist like which on the economic elvel was what the nationalist socialists were about. The Nazis also scrapped the unfair Versailles Treaty that was imposed on them. Stalin also greatly industrialized his nation. So even under brutish regimes like these, some positive things were done.

*JR*
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:32 PM
I agree you're pathetic. At any time in your entire life have you ever researched anything instead regurgitating the most simplistic platitudes you can find?

How awful for you that the world insists on being complex instead of simple.

The discussion was whether of not Hezbollah 'perfectly fits the definition of a terrorist group'?

They hold 14 seats in the Lebanese parliament (out of 128) and two ministerial posts. How many 'terrorist' groups hold over ten percents of the parliamentary seats in the country where they're based? How many provide the hospsitals and school, ambulance and postal services?

What OTHER 'terrorist' organization does all those things?
You're splitting hairs here. The norm is for a terrorist group like the IRA or ETA 2B allied with a party represented in the legislative branch of the government. Sinn Fein and Hari Batusana (sp?) in these 2 cases. And I say that (as Craig can attest) :p as a supporter of Sinn Fein's goal of a united Ireland.

Hulet
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:35 PM
We're in basic agreement on this subject, for the most part... and I do feel that there are a lot of people who speak out against Israel in here whom would love to see them wiped off the map *cough*TBE*cough*

I have to disagree with you that Volcana is one of them, though. :)
What is wrong with thinking that the state (if any one misses it, I am emphesising the word "state") of Israel should be wiped off the map? There is nothing wrong with a state/nation being swallowed by others or being broken up if that results in more peace for the rest of the neighbourhood. I am not advocating that this should be done though some sort of ethnic cleansing or other violent means, but why should a world tolerate failed states like the former state of Yogoslavia which couldn't maintain peace within its borders or the current state of Israel which isn't capable of living side by side with its neighbours?

Sam L
Aug 10th, 2006, 02:42 PM
Like what? Please provide links to source material.


Like what? Please provide links to source material.

As an avid defender of the Nazis and the KKK, you should have no trouble providing source material for all the good they've done. Until you do however, your position is bullshit. Go ahead. We're all waiting.

KKK

There is also evidence that in certain states, such as Alabama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama), the KKK was not a mere hate group and showed a genuine desire for political and social reform.[50] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#_note-49) Because of the elite conservative political structure in Alabama, the state's Klansmen were among the foremost advocates of better public schools, effective prohibition enforcement, expanded road construction, and other "progressive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism)" political measures. In many ways these progressive political goals, which benefited ordinary and lower class white people in the state, were the result of the Klan offering these same people their first chance to install their own political champions into office. [51] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#_note-50)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

Nazis

Domestic economic policy was narrowly concerned with three major goals:



Elimination of unemployment.
Elimination of hyperinflation.
Expansion of production of consumer goods to improve middle and lower-class living standards.
All of these policy goals were intended to address the perceived shortcomings of the Weimar Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic) and to solidify domestic support for the party. In this, the party was very successful. Between 1933 and 1936 the German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) GNP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measures_of_national_income) increased by an average annual rate of 9.5 percent, and the rate for industry alone rose by 17.2 percent.

This expansion propelled the German economy out of a deep depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_%28economics%29) and into full employment in less than four years.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Anyway, I don't need to prove anything to you. Everyone has recongised that no matter how bad a person is they always look out for someone.

KKK for white protestants.
Nazis for aryan Germans.
Hezbollah for palestinians/muslims.

And they oppress others at the same time.

That's all that needs to be said. You are a supporter of Hezbollah. You're pathetic. You support terrorism. As an American you should be ashamed of yourself especially given what's happened with 9/11 less than 5 years ago. :rolleyes:

*JR*
Aug 10th, 2006, 03:31 PM
...or the current state of Israel which isn't capable of living side by side with its neighbours?
I think this is a "wonderful" example of George Orwell's famous term newspeak, from his novel 1984. "isn't capable of"? :scratch: Seems to me that after failing to "abort" (sorry, abortion-on-demand defenders) the then new State of Israel in 1948, its Arab neighbors tried to (prepare to) destroy it in 1956, and to actually do so in 1967 and (with Jordan sitting the last one out) 1973.

And @ any time B4 the run-up to the 1967 war, Jordan and Egypt could have created the State of Palestine on 100% of the West Bank and Gaza, but didn't. And that the minority Hashemites of Jordan's royal family certainly exploited its Palestinian majority, as they do to this day. (Re. Lebanon, its weak governments never attacked Israel, but its long been under Syrian control in terms of strategic use of much of its territory).

Volcana
Aug 10th, 2006, 03:32 PM
You are a supporter of Hezbollah.No. But I've been called worse.
You're pathetic.That's you looking in the mirror. Try again.
You support terrorism.No more so than anyone who supports Israel's current tactics in southern Lebanon. (Side note: Nasrallah warned Israelis to evacuate Haifa yesterday, because missiles were coming. Does that suddenly make lobbing Katyushas into Haifa NOT terrorism, because of the warning?)
As an American you should be ashamed of yourself especially given what's happened with 9/11 less than 5 years ago.And yet, shockingly, I'm not.

Thanks for the links.

*JR*
Aug 10th, 2006, 03:41 PM
(Side note: Nasrallah warned Israelis to evacuate Haifa yesterday, because missiles were coming. Does that suddenly make lobbing Katyushas into Haifa NOT terrorism, because of the warning?)
You're quite the spinmeister. :hatoff: Actually (according to the BBC, hardly "Zionist puppet media") :tape: he warned Haifa's Muslims to evacuate, so their blood wouldn't be spilled with that of the Jews.

Volcana
Aug 10th, 2006, 03:54 PM
You're quite the spinmeister.Thank you.
Actually (according to the BBC, hardly "Zionist puppet media") :tape: he warned Haifa's Muslims to evacuate, so their blood wouldn't be spilled with that of the Jews.Do you have a link to that? MSNBC didn't go into much depth. Thanx.

*JR*
Aug 10th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Thank you.
Do you have a link to that? MSNBC didn't go into much depth. Thanx.
Its was said on their (8 AM Eastern) News Hour, which I listen to on XM satellite radio. I presume that if you click 1200 GMT under the Radio Player page for that program in: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/index.shtml it will bring it up for replay.

Meteor Shower
Aug 10th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Thank you.
Do you have a link to that? MSNBC didn't go into much depth. Thanx.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/09/haifa.warning.ap/index.html

"I have a special message to the Arabs of Haifa, to your martyrs and to your wounded: I call on you to leave this city. I hope you do this. ... Please leave so we don't shed your blood, which is our blood," Nasrallah said.

You were saying.. :wavey:

sapir1434
Aug 10th, 2006, 05:45 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/09/haifa.warning.ap/index.html

"I have a special message to the Arabs of Haifa, to your martyrs and to your wounded: I call on you to leave this city. I hope you do this. ... Please leave so we don't shed your blood, which is our blood," Nasrallah said.

You were saying.. :wavey:
He's so stupid :lol: :rolleyes: He said he's sorry also when a rocket of Hezballah killed 2 arab kids from Natzereth :rolleyes: terrorists like him don't sorry about anything.

Hulet
Aug 10th, 2006, 06:05 PM
I think this is a "wonderful" example of George Orwell's famous term newspeak, from his novel 1984. "isn't capable of"? :scratch: Seems to me that after failing to "abort" (sorry, abortion-on-demand defenders) the then new State of Israel in 1948, its Arab neighbors tried to (prepare to) destroy it in 1956, and to actually do so in 1967 and (with Jordan sitting the last one out) 1973.

And @ any time B4 the run-up to the 1967 war, Jordan and Egypt could have created the State of Palestine on 100% of the West Bank and Gaza, but didn't. And that the minority Hashemites of Jordan's royal family certainly exploited its Palestinian majority, as they do to this day. (Re. Lebanon, its weak governments never attacked Israel, but its long been under Syrian control in terms of strategic use of much of its territory).
I don't know in what way the term "isn't capable of," which I attributed to the state of Israel's ability to live peacefully with its neighbours, is a newspeak. It's neither ambigious (as the dictionary defines newspeak) nor is it used in propaganda where I live. In fact, it's inambiguity is clear to all who tune into any news channel today; the fact that questioning the existence of an Israeli state is a taboo in the mainstream media disqualifies it from being a propagandist term.

You list numerous historical examples that show that the state of Israel was attacked by its neighbour since its inception and that it has remained a victim of violence dished out by its neighbours. The attitude that "Israel is always defending itself and is never aggressive" is the main defence that is paraded by most Israelis (even by Shimon Perez) to justify their actions in most conflicts the mired themselves in. This refusal to look at their own history in a clear minded fashion and their constant denial of their own aggressiveness and the destruction they inflicted on their neighbours should infact be a point against an existence of such a thing as a "state of Israel".

babsi
Aug 10th, 2006, 06:53 PM
I think a 'certain poster' should stick to posting go baby go, fight baby fight and supporting players from a country that he doesn't even come from to this sort of stuff.

Volcana
Aug 11th, 2006, 03:10 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/09/haifa.warning.ap/index.html

"I have a special message to the Arabs of Haifa, to your martyrs and to your wounded: I call on you to leave this city. I hope you do this. ... Please leave so we don't shed your blood, which is our blood," Nasrallah said.

You were saying.. :wavey:I was saying, 'thank you'. It's a lot easier to respond when people provide links to their source material.

I believe that the American, I might go so far as to say the 'Western', news media, is quite one sided. I make an attempt to present viewpoints I consider under-represented. To the extent that people are forced to consider the views of their opponents, I consider myself to be performing a service. Fortunately, my goal isn't to be popular, 'cause this sure isn't how to accomplish that.

Having said all that, it doesn't mean I believe the Western viewpoint is wrong. Just not the be-all and end-all.

To me, new info, backed by reliable sources, not necessarily even unbiased sources, is always good.

At my best, I'm an incredibly annoying bitch to have around. :devil: My partner is getting a bit pissed at some of the posters in this thread. It falls on her to deflate me when my head gets too big.

Fingon
Aug 11th, 2006, 03:39 AM
The analogy, incidentally, is especially apt. The problem with cancer is the amount of living tissue you have to excise to get all of the cancer. Take too much, and you kill the patient.
but if you don't get all of the cancer, the patient dies, a slow a painful dead.

Fingon
Aug 11th, 2006, 03:50 AM
Hezbollah most certainly doesn't perfectly fit the definition of a terrorist organization. Even Fox is calling it a "guerilla group."

bombing civilian buildings in a country that has nothing to do with their conflict quite fits MY definition of a terrorist organization.

As I already said (and as Silk said my post got ignored for a reason ;) ), the EU doesn't classify it as a terrorist organization. The US only does so because it accuses it of kidnapping reporters and bombing the US embassy in Beirut among other things in the 80s and early 90s. Hezbollah denies those claims.

I don't see that as relevant, the discussion is not whether hezbollah fits a particular definition of terrorist organization, but if it indeed is a terrorist organization. I don't care what the EU calls them, for me there isn't a shadow of doubt they are terrorists.

Hezbollah's ideology of radical Islamism doesn't make it a terrorist organization either, that is if people want to stick to an objective definition of terrorism. Ofcourse, if people want to use the word simply as equivalent to "evil bastards that we hate," it's another story.

radical islamism is often tied to terrorism, but they are not synonimous, hatred is also tied to terrorism but they are not synonimous either.
An objective definition? are you worried about semantics. Yes, I hate the evil bastards, because I have seen with my own eyes what they did, blowing up buildings in a country thousands of miles away just because they were some jews in them. We all know the atrocities they committed during the Lebanon's civil war, they started the idea of suicide bombers, they targetted civilians, of any nationality from the very beginning, semantics aside, they fit MY definition, objective or not very well.

There are many extremist parties in the parliaments of nearly all countries.

really? like? I don't recall any political party in Canada whose members have been blowing up civilians, incidentally, neither in the US or the UK.

Let's not forget that Jean-marie Le Pen reached the second round of the French presidential elections,

Le Pen is an asshole, an extremist right-winger, but a terrorist?

and let's also not forget that there are many parties in the Knesset that advocate the forceful expulsion of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza.

of course, they advocate, but they are not actively involved in terrorism

And didn't the Israeli minister of tourism at one point make an official proposal for ethnic cleansing all Arabs in the West Bank? Is he a terrorist?


If he did that, he is an idiot and also an extremist, but he isn't a terrorist unless terrorist actions occurred, words alone are not terrorism unless they are followed by actions.

That's not a lot different from Hezbollah's goal to destroy Israel; at least Hezbollah is advocating the destruction of Israel as a political entitity and not the expulsion of Jews.

Hezbollah is not ONLY advocating the destruction of Israel, they are actually trying to do it.

I'm by no way defending Hezbollah's ideology in any shape or form. They are the worst thing to have happened to Lebanon in the last 2 decades as their extremist ideology is against everything I stand for. But "terrorism" has been used left and right since 911 mainly as political blathering.
I don't know a better word, murderers perhaps?