PDA

View Full Version : Best female player to never rank#1?


supermann
Aug 5th, 2006, 09:21 AM
I personally believe Evonne Goolagong is the best female player to never rank #1 .. but I would say Hana Mandlikova is the #2 player of the Open Era to never rank #1. I suppose Virginia Wade would be #3.

Who are your picks?

Andy.
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:37 AM
On Talent and game i think Mary Pierce, she had the potential to be one of the greats

santhuruu
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:49 AM
On Talent and game i think Mary Pierce, she had the potential to be one of the greats

I agree with you:)

Viktymise
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:58 AM
I think Pierce aswell actually and when LenaD wins a slam it will be her :D

Carmen Mairena
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:05 PM
Hana and Mary! :yeah:

Worst players to reach the number 1: ASV & KC! :devil:

*Jool*
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:24 PM
Cant judge on Evonne , Hana etc , taht's too old for me
Since I really am interested in tennis , Mary and Conchita .
Conchita was one win shy from being number one in 95.

(Novotna was close too in ...was it US Open 97 ? )

Elena D ? ... :lol: :retard: she s not even top 5 come on guys stop overrating her , sure she's a great player but not the best player never to have been ranked number 1.

-sugi-
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:26 PM
I think Mary :) She could have been number 1 possibly if she didn't get so many injuries :(

LegionArgentina
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:28 PM
GABRIELA SABATINI :notworthy:

DomenicDemaria
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:31 PM
I think Mary :) She could have been number 1 possibly if she didn't get so many injuries :(

I agree. In 2000 she was hitting really good form and if it was not for the shoulder injury would have come close to finishing number 1. For me its Mary cause when shes on she will beat anybody.

so.krist!na
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:38 PM
I think Mary Pierce :)

Davenselesport
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:45 PM
What a surprise... everyone but like 3 people picked someone in their signature. OPEN UP A LITTLE PEOPLE.

lindsayno1
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Pierce for sure

alextim
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:53 PM
mary

spencercarlos
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:56 PM
Cant judge on Evonne , Hana etc , taht's too old for me
Since I really am interested in tennis , Mary and Conchita .
Conchita was one win shy from being number one in 95.

(Novotna was close too in ...was it US Open 97 ? )

Elena D ? ... :lol: :retard: she s not even top 5 come on guys stop overrating her , sure she's a great player but not the best player never to have been ranked number 1.
Conchita was never one win away from number one, that´s a balant lie.

spencercarlos
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:58 PM
GABRIELA SABATINI :notworthy:
Gaby for her part was really close between May and August 1991 when there was between 10-30 points average between the number one and number three players, she just could not deliver, in fact had she beaten Seles at Roland Garros 1991 would have done it.

*Jool*
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:59 PM
What a surprise... everyone but like 3 people picked someone in their signature. OPEN UP A LITTLE PEOPLE.

well its pretty onbvious this question will never have a clear answer anyway-
our fave players are the ones we know best , and if they were close to number 1 , or have the game to be number 1 , it's legitimate IMO to remember the others they were/are good enough to achieve this goal...

personnally, I'm not gonna answer Petrova, Dementieva, MJ Fernandez , Majoli or I dont know who else, since it happens Mary and Conchi were better players(achieved more) than those ones

But I agree, along with Jana Mary Conchi, I forgot Sabatini

Soch
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:00 PM
What's your problem with Martínez? I don't see the need to keep bashing her time and again. She was not one win away from being #1, but maybe the poster who wrote that actually had listened that piece of information, that's not fair of you to call him a liar.

I think Martínez is one of the best not to have been number one, as well as Sabatini.

*Jool*
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:00 PM
Conchita was never one win away from number one, that´s a balant lie.


had she won against Graf in SF RG95 I think she would have been ... :shrug:
oh well, you may be right , she probably would have needed to win agaisnt ASV in final too, but she would have eaten her anyway so I'm partially right :p ;)

*Jool*
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:01 PM
lol
thx Sochy :kiss:

spencercarlos
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:04 PM
had she won against Graf in SF RG95 I think she would have been ... :shrug:
oh well, you may be right , she probably would have needed to win agaisnt ASV in final too, but she would have eaten her anyway so I'm partially right :p ;)
You think... that´s one thing... i will bring you the numbers after 1995 Roland Garros :p don´t worry.

Pheobo
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:06 PM
1.) Gabriela Sabatini
2.) Conchita Martinez
3.) Mary Pierce

TheBoiledEgg
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:06 PM
easy choice
Gabriela Sabatini ;) :angel: :hearts:

*Jool*
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:07 PM
well yeah do that

you're so happy to be right , I don't want to embarass you .


I really dont care about you anyway , you're the Sabatini Calimero of the board
and any way to put Conchita down is good for you - for instance let's just look at your stupid signature : if you need to bash a player just to say how good was your fave , that looks pretty sad to me

Chrissie-fan
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Evonne Goolagong by miles.

Yonexforever
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:36 PM
I am continually amazed by so call fans of the game who cant comment on players from earlier eras...
Especially when the information is at your damn finger tips!
When i was a junior player i read every bio, studied every year end Tennis Magazine when they used to list ALL the slams and winners and rank players by surface.. What has happened that no one here can even comment on players from the 80's much less prior to that!

frenchie
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:38 PM
Myskina???
because she was only a few wins from nr1 during 2004 summer :sad:

SAEKeithSerena
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:39 PM
mary pierce

Declan
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:49 PM
I am continually amazed by so call fans of the game who cant comment on players from earlier eras...
Especially when the information is at your damn finger tips!
When i was a junior player i read every bio, studied every year end Tennis Magazine when they used to list ALL the slams and winners and rank players by surface.. What has happened that no one here can even comment on players from the 80's much less prior to that!

I agree totally! When I first discovered tennis I hungrily read up all aspects of the history of the game, and loved doing so!

Anyway... Evonne Goolagong was the world No.1 for 1971, in most experts' eyes, after winning Wimbledon and Roland Garros. All the tennis history books confirm that. WTA computer rankings started in November 1975, and I've followed tennis for all that time. Taking Evonne out of consideration, as she had been a World No.1 before this, I would say the best players who never ranked at No.1 were Virginia Wade and Gabriela Sabatini, and an honourable mention to Mary Pierce, who in 2000 and early 2006 had a real shot at reaching the top spot but cruelly both times was promptly sidelined and unable to play for months on end, scuppering her chances.

Yonexforever
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:49 PM
Evonne Goolagong by miles.

EXCELLENT CHOICE.. I THINK HANA MANDLIKOVA IS ALSO ANOTHER ONE.

hurricanejeanne
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:02 PM
This may not be my era, but the first person I did think of is Evonne Goolagong.
Hana Mandlikova too.

I agree that out of the recent years Mary Pierce is the one that holds this title.
It seems that there is one every generation that fits in this catagory.

MH0861
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Within recent years... Pierce, Martinez, Sabatini and Novotna.

Highlandman
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:09 PM
Hana Mandlikova

bobcat
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:10 PM
Of the ones I've seen it's Mandlikova.

MrSerenaWilliams
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:17 PM
that's hard because you're comparing different players from different eras....blah, blah....

Evonne Goolagong - 7 slams
Mary Pierce -2 slams (much tougher to win slams now)

I give the edge to Mary, becuase I don't know about Evonne's injuries...but FOR SURE if Mary wasn't injured she would have been #1...I mean look at all of the player from 2000- who have been #1:

Martina Hingis - no slams from 2000-
Lindsay Davenport - no slams from 2000-
Jennifer Capriati - 3 slams (AO: 2001, 2002 FO: 2001)
Venus Williams - 5 slams (W: 2000, 2001, 2005 USO: 2000, 2001)
Serena Williams - 6 slams (AO: 2003, 2005 FO: 2002 W: 2002, 2003 USO: 2002)
Justine Henin-Hardenne -5 slams (AO: 2004 FO: 2003, 2005, 2006 USO: 2003)
Kim Clijsters - 1 slams (USO: 2005)
Amelie Mauresmo - 2 slams (AO: 2006 W: 2006)
Maria Sharapova - 1 slams (W: 2004)


so it's safe to say that the # of slams really doesn't have as GREAT a bearing as people like to imagine....if Mary played more (which is what all of these ladies have in common...), she would have reached #1 for sure....that being said, I don't see it happeneing...but you never know! :hatsoff:

Kim's_fan_4ever
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:53 PM
Hana and Mary! :yeah:

Worst players to reach the number 1: ASV & KC! :devil:
Kim was the best at the time when she reached #1 spot :o

I don't think that Elena D has the title. To me it's Nadia Petrova, a little Sveta too (but Sveta in form)

ToeTag
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:39 PM
Gaby of course!

SelesFan70
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:40 PM
Evonne Goolagong by miles.

and miles and miles and miles. :wavey:

SelesFan70
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:42 PM
I am continually amazed by so call fans of the game who cant comment on players from earlier eras...
Especially when the information is at your damn finger tips!
When i was a junior player i read every bio, studied every year end Tennis Magazine when they used to list ALL the slams and winners and rank players by surface.. What has happened that no one here can even comment on players from the 80's much less prior to that!

The young farts on here have no desire to learn tennis history. It's very sad. :sad:

spencercarlos
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:46 PM
well yeah do that

you're so happy to be right , I don't want to embarass you .


I really dont care about you anyway , you're the Sabatini Calimero of the board
and any way to put Conchita down is good for you - for instance let's just look at your stupid signature : if you need to bash a player just to say how good was your fave , that looks pretty sad to me
You know i love numbers and stats, and i would not come here saying something that is not true, like you did stating that Martinez was 1 win away from being number one.


Stats from taken from Tennis Magazine (June 1995 Edition)
Rankings April 10 1995
1. Steffi Graf 298.821
2. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 296.702
3. Mary Pierce 235.369
4. Conchita Martinez 203.755

Stats from taken from Tennis Magazine (July 1995 Edition)
Rankings May 8 1995
1. Steffi Graf 298.238
2. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 295.135
3. Mary Pierce 235.562
4. Conchita Martinez 207.020

Stats from taken from Tennis Magazine (August 1995 Edition)
Rankings June 12 1995
1. Steffi Graf 316.738
2. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 293.439
3. Conchita Martinez 218.108
4. Mary Pierce 200.286
* Had Conchita won Roland Garros 1995 (2 more matches than she did) she would have gotten around 20-30 more average points at most, Arantxa would have stayed number one with 293pts, even Steffi would have still being ahead of Conchita with around 270 rankings points so your "Conchita was one match from being number one" statement as i said was a balant lie.

More Info if you like it
Stats from taken from Tennis Magazine (September 1995 Edition)
Rankings July 10 1995
1. Steffi Graf 386.155
2. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 325.724
3. Conchita Martinez 195.592

Stats from taken from Tennis Magazine (October 1995 Edition)
Rankings August 14 1995
1. Steffi Graf 360.155
2. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 311.045
3. Conchita Martinez 211.097

Stats from taken from Tennis Magazine (December 1995 Edition)
Rankings October 16 1995
1. Steffi Graf 357.196
* Monica Seles
2. Arantxa Sanchez Vicario 240.389
3. Conchita Martinez 222.236

:wavey: Jool ;)

moby
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:46 PM
I'm sure Evonne was no. 1 before, maybe not on the computerised rankings, but at least half her career was before that anyway.

My vote's for Hana. She had played Chris and Martina in their primes and still came away with 4 Slams.

spencercarlos
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:57 PM
well yeah do that

you're so happy to be right , I don't want to embarass you .


I really dont care about you anyway , you're the Sabatini Calimero of the board
and any way to put Conchita down is good for you - for instance let's just look at your stupid signature : if you need to bash a player just to say how good was your fave , that looks pretty sad to me
Im not bashing Conchita is not my fault that her numbers related to quality wins and records on the biggest events are not better to Sabatini´s. That´s not something "I THINK" the numbers are there.

Il Primo!
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:58 PM
1.) Gabriela Sabatini
2.) Conchita Martinez
3.) Mary Pierce

Same here!I'd add Myskina as fourth

oakkao
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:59 PM
Pierce :)

safinfans629
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:02 PM
Mary Pierce

faboozadoo15
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:06 PM
evonne
hana m
sabatini
c martinez
pierce
EDIT: forgot novotna :retard: how could I?!?!



myskina
sveta

i hope i'm not missing anyone. petrova could get itno this category one day.

mamno_MARYFAN
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Mary for sure, even if she doesn't have the best mobilty, with her strength, without her injuries and in the right frame of mind she would easily became the no 1 player...:o

Others so far...I would say Gaby, Conchita,???

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:10 PM
Definately Hana Mandlikova was the best player to never reach no 1 in my book. She was in the era of Navratilova and Evert and yet she still managed to find a way to win four Grand Slam titles. The only one she didn't win was Wimbledon and she made the final there twice. Only Austin, Evert, Seles, Graf and Goolagong (all no 1 ranked players) had more wins against Navratilova than Hana and only Navratilova, Austin and Goolagong had more wins against Evert than Hana. Against Sabatina who some other people are nominating as the best to never reach no 1 Hana was 5-2. And Sabatina won just a single slam.

Of those players of current era it would be Mary Pierce, but compared to Hana she doesn't come close.

faboozadoo15
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:13 PM
:confused: was evonne ever number one?

No Name Face
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:14 PM
I think Pierce aswell actually and when LenaD wins a slam it will be her :D

do you honestly believe that!? :eek: :eek: :eek:

lena has like 5 titles. in her career. #1 players win 5 titles in half a year. *shrug*

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:15 PM
:confused: was evonne ever number one?

This was mentioned earlier in the thread. Technically no, as the rankings only began in 1975. But it is acknowledged that she would have been ranked no 1 earlier than that had the rankings existed so in my book yes she was no 1.

faboozadoo15
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:27 PM
This was mentioned earlier in the thread. Technically no, as the rankings only began in 1975. But it is acknowledged that she would have been ranked no 1 earlier than that had the rankings existed so in my book yes she was no 1.
thanks ;)
so hana has my vote.

squig2k
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:59 PM
Mary Pierce for sure.One of the most deserving players, but always setback with injuries. Had a real chance this year before the French

TS
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Who said Myskina? :tape:

I'll say Gaby Sabatini. She was very very close in '91.

frenchie
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Who said Myskina? :tape:

I'll say Gaby Sabatini. She was very very close in '91.
so was Nastya in 2004 :wavey:

*Jool*
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Im not bashing Conchita is not my fault that her numbers related to quality wins and records on the biggest events are not better to Sabatini´s. That´s not something "I THINK" the numbers are there.

ok ok I was shamefully wrong . no big deal anyway

And I won't argue any longer , but there's still one thing I'd like to understand : the need you have to compare Sabatini's records with Conchita's ?

égalité
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:16 PM
I say Mary Pierce and Hana Mandlikova!

partbrit
Aug 5th, 2006, 06:11 PM
Absolutely Evonne. And I agree that Hana would be second.

tennisboi
Aug 5th, 2006, 06:41 PM
Pierce or Gaby

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Definately Hana Mandlikova was the best player to never reach no 1 in my book. She was in the era of Navratilova and Evert and yet she still managed to find a way to win four Grand Slam titles. The only one she didn't win was Wimbledon and she made the final there twice. Only Austin, Evert, Seles, Graf and Goolagong (all no 1 ranked players) had more wins against Navratilova than Hana and only Navratilova, Austin and Goolagong had more wins against Evert than Hana. Against Sabatina who some other people are nominating as the best to never reach no 1 Hana was 5-2. And Sabatina won just a single slam.

Of those players of current era it would be Mary Pierce, but compared to Hana she doesn't come close.

When Mandlikova played all her matches with Sabatini, and when Evert played all her matches with Sabatini, she was still just a rising teen, hadnt really come into her own so those stats are misleading.

Shonami Slam
Aug 5th, 2006, 07:34 PM
Kuznetsova has the potential to be the first career slam finalistwithout the #1 rank.
that's both a compliment and insult, i guess - though i absaloutly love her.

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:30 PM
When Mandlikova played all her matches with Sabatini, and when Evert played all her matches with Sabatini, she was still just a rising teen, hadnt really come into her own so those stats are misleading.

I wouldn't say so. Mandlikova's five wins over Sabatini came during the years 1985 to 1987, all three years of which Sabatini finished in the top ten. Infact one can argue quite the reverse. The last of Sabatini's two wins over Mandlikova occured in 1989, Hana's second to last year on the tour and a period at which she was definately in decline and had fallen out of the top 10.

Regardless, I don't think it would be misleading to point out that Mandlikova contested 8 Grand Slam finals winning 4, while Sabatini contested only 3, winning just one.

But if it makes you feel better I will certainly agree Sabatini DID have a better career than Conchita Martinez. :p

JulesVerne
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:45 PM
I personally believe Evonne Goolagong is the best female player to never rank #1 .. but I would say Hana Mandlikova is the #2 player of the Open Era to never rank #1. I suppose Virginia Wade would be #3.

Who are your picks?

Evonne Goolagong won French Open and Wimbledon in 1971 before days of computer rankings. Hence, probably not applicable or can we consider Margaret Court who I do not think had a number 1 ranking. :lol:

Therefore, probably 4 times grand slam winner Hana Mandlikova.

Perfection
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Definately Kournikova & Schett.

Milito22
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Conchita Martinez!!! :D

I AGREE 100% AND GABY, NOVOTNA :o

delicatecutter
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Definately Kournikova & Schett.

:haha:

Did you think this was the "Most Beautiful Players of All Time" thread?

Rachel_
Aug 5th, 2006, 09:18 PM
i think its alot easier to get to no 1 in the world now then it was late 80's early 90's.

cos most top players play less than 15/6 tournaments a year due to whatever reasons and they dont accumulate as many points as maybe Graf in heyday.

So as good as Myskina, Kuzzy and Elena D are they are nowhere near that title

1. all u need to do to get to no1 these days is consistantly make the last 4 in tournaments.

and lets face it these girls have no idea what consistancy is...

RJWCapriati
Aug 5th, 2006, 09:20 PM
Mary Pierce

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 09:44 PM
I wouldn't say so. Mandlikova's five wins over Sabatini came during the years 1985 to 1987, all three years of which Sabatini finished in the top ten. Infact one can argue quite the reverse. The last of Sabatini's two wins over Mandlikova occured in 1989, Hana's second to last year on the tour and a period at which she was definately in decline and had fallen out of the top 10.

Regardless, I don't think it would be misleading to point out that Mandlikova contested 8 Grand Slam finals winning 4, while Sabatini contested only 3, winning just one.

But if it makes you feel better I will certainly agree Sabatini DID have a better career than Conchita Martinez. :p


I disagree with you, Sabatini played at a time when there was a lot more competition, hence those three finals meant a lot more, and lets not mention all the SF grandslam appearances Sabatini has. Most of Sabatini loses in her head to head come before 87 and after 95, here you have the head to head you can look for yourself, the only player from the older generation who continued to win against Sabatini was Navratilova, no other.

5 CANADIAN OPEN HARD (O) Q H. MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-0 -- / 3
-- / 8 1986 HILTON HEAD CLAY (O) Q H. MANDLIKOVA 7-5 0-6 6-4 -- / 2
-- / -- 1986 FED CUP CLAY (O) R4 H. MANDLIKOVA 6-2 6-4 -- / --
-- / 4 1986 FILDERSTADT CARPET (I) S H. MANDLIKOVA 6-2 6-1 -- / 2
10 / 5 1987 VS OF HOUSTON CLAY (O) Q H. MANDLIKOVA 7-5 6-4 3 / 2
8 / 7 1987 VS OF LOS ANGELES HARD (O) Q G. SABATINI 7-6(3) 2-6 7-5 4 / 4
3 / 1 1989 FILDERSTADT CARPET (I) Q G. SABATINI 6-3 6-0

and I taught Evert would be good to post in here as well,

1985 HILTON HEAD CLAY (O) F C. EVERT 6-4 6-0 -- / 1
-- / -- 1985 WITA CHAMPIONSHIP CLAY (O) Q C. EVERT 6-1 1-6 6-3 -- / 1
-- / 14 1985 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) S C. EVERT 6-4 6-1 -- / 2
-- / 9 1986 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) R16 C. EVERT 1-6 6-3 6-3 -- / 2
6 / 3 1987 VS OF NEW ENGLAND CARPET (I) S C. EVERT 6-4 7-6(1) 3 / 1
5 / 4 1988 VS OF FLORIDA HARD (O) S G. SABATINI 6-1 7-5 3 / 2
5 / -- 1988 VS OF LOS ANGELES HARD (O) F C. EVERT 2-6 6-1 6-1 3 / 1
5 / 4 1988 CANADIAN OPEN HARD (O) S G. SABATINI 6-4 6-3 3 / 2
3 / 1 1989 MIAMI HARD (O) F G. SABATINI 6-1 4-6 6-2 4 / 2

most of the loses in which Sabatini suffered against both Mandlikova and Evert was before she even turned 17. Look at her results before 87 and after 87 there is a huge difference, just as if you look at her results after mid 95.

A
ADAMS, KATRINA (USA) H2H 1-0
APPELMANS, SABINE (BEL) H2H 3-0
ARRAYA, LAURA (PER) H2H 7-0
AUSTIN, TRACY (USA) H2H 1-0

B
BALESTRAT, DIANNE (AUS) H2H 3-1
BARTOS, CSILLA (SUI) H2H 1-0
BASSETT-SEGUSO, CARLING (CAN) H2H 2-1
BASUKI, YAYUK (INA) H2H Tied at 1-1
BAUDONE-FURLAN, NATHALIE (ITA) H2H 1-0
BENJAMIN, CAMILLE (USA) H2H 5-1
BENTIVOGLIO, MARIA FRANCESCA (ITA) H2H 1-0
BETZNER, ANDREA (GER) H2H 1-0
BOBKOVA, RADKA (CZE) H2H 1-0
BOLLEGRAF, MANON (NED) H2H 1-0
BONDER-KREISS, LISA (USA) H2H 2-1
BONICELLI, FIORELLA (PER) H2H 1-0
BONSIGNORI, FEDERICA (ITA) H2H 1-0
BOOGERT, KRISTIE (NED) H2H 1-0
BOWES-HACKNEY, BEVERLY (USA) H2H 4-0
BRADTKE, NICOLE (AUS) H2H 5-1
BROWN, AMANDA (GBR) H2H 1-0
BUNGE, BETTINA (MON) H2H 3-0
BURGIN, ELISE (USA) H2H 3-0
BYRNE, JENNY (AUS) H2H 3-0

C
CALLEJA, MARIE-CHRISTINE (FRA) H2H 1-0
CAPRIATI, JENNIFER (USA) H2H 11-5
CARROLL, HALLE (USA) H2H 1-0
CASALE-TELFORD, PAM (USA) H2H 1-0
CASATI, MICHELLE (USA) H2H 2-0
CAVERZASIO, CATHY (ITA) H2H 1-0
CECCHINI, SANDRA (ITA) H2H 6-1
COETZER, AMANDA (RSA) H2H 7-1
COPELAND, CARYN (USA) H2H 1-0
CORDWELL, BELINDA (NZL) H2H 4-0
CROFT, ANNABEL (GBR) H2H 4-0
CUETO, ISABEL (GER) H2H 2-0
CUNNINGHAM, CARRIE (USA) H2H 1-0

D
DAHLMAN, CECILIA (SWE) H2H 2-0
DAHLSTROM, HELENA (SWE) H2H 1-0
DANIELS, MARY LOU (USA) H2H 2-0
DATE, KIMIKO (JPN) H2H 4-3
DAVENPORT, LINDSAY (USA) H2H 7-3
DE LONE, ERIKA (USA) H2H 1-0
DECHAUME-BALLERET, ALEXIA (FRA) H2H 1-0
DEMONGEOT, ISABELLE (FRA) H2H 7-0
DIAS, NEIGE (BRA) H2H 1-0
DURIE, JO (GBR) H2H 3-0

E
EKSTRAND, MARIA (SWE) H2H 1-0
EMMONS, JESSICA (USA) H2H 1-0
ENDO, MANA (JPN) H2H 2-0
EVERT, CHRIS (USA) H2H 3-6

F
FARINA ELIA, SILVIA (ITA) H2H 3-1
FAUCHE, CHRISTELLE (SUI) H2H 1-0
FEBER, NANCY (BEL) H2H 1-0
FENDICK, PATTY (USA) H2H 5-0
FERNANDEZ, GIGI (USA) H2H 3-0
FERNANDEZ, MARY JOE (USA) H2H 13-10
FERRANDO, LINDA (ITA) H2H 3-0
FOLTZ, SHAWN (USA) H2H 1-0
FRAZIER, AMY (USA) H2H 3-2
FULCO-VILLELLA, BETTINA (ARG) H2H 5-0
FUSAI, ALEXANDRA (FRA) H2H 1-0

G
GADUSEK, BONNIE (USA) H2H 0-1
GAIDANO, MARIA JOSE (ARG) H2H 1-0
GARRISON, ZINA (USA) H2H 10-3
GARRONE, LAURA (ITA) H2H 1-0
GATES, LINDA (USA) H2H 1-0
GAVALDON, ANGELICA (MEX) H2H 3-0
GERKEN, BARBARA (USA) H2H 3-0
GHIRARDI, LEA (FRA) H2H 2-1
GODRIDGE, KRISTIN (AUS) H2H 1-0
GOLARSA, LAURA (ITA) H2H 1-0
GOLDER, JAMIE (USA) H2H 1-0
GOLES, SABRINA (CRO) H2H 2-0
GOMER, SARA (GBR) H2H 3-0
GOMPERT, KATE (USA) H2H 2-0
GORROCHATEGUI, INES (ARG) H2H 1-0
GRAF, STEFFI (GER) H2H 11-29
GRAHAM, DEBBIE (USA) H2H 1-0
GURNEY, MELISSA (USA) H2H 1-0

H
HABSUDOVA, KARINA (SVK) H2H 1-0
HACK, SABINE (GER) H2H 1-0
HAKAMI, ELLY (USA) H2H 2-0
HALARD-DECUGIS, JULIE (FRA) H2H 6-1
HANIKA, SYLVIA (GER) H2H 5-1
HARPER, PEANUT (USA) H2H Tied at 1-1
HENRICKSSON, ANN (USA) H2H 4-0
HERREMAN, NATHALIE (FRA) H2H 1-0
HETHERINGTON, JILL (CAN) H2H 1-0
HINGIS, MARTINA (SUI) H2H Tied at 1-1
HIRAKI, RIKA (JPN) H2H 2-0
HOLDEN, JANE (USA) H2H 1-0
HOLIKOVA, ANDREA (CZE) H2H 1-0
HOLTON, AMY (USA) H2H 1-0
HORVATH, KATHLEEN (USA) H2H 2-1
HUBER, ANKE (GER) H2H 4-3
HUBER, PETRA (AUT) H2H 2-0
HUSAROVA, JANETTE (SVK) H2H 1-0
HY-BOULAIS, PATRICIA (CAN) H2H 7-0

J
JAVER, MONIQUE (GBR) H2H 1-0
JEYASEELAN, SONYA (CAN) H2H 1-0
JOLISSAINT, CHRISTIANE (SUI) H2H 2-0
JORDAN, KATHY (USA) H2H 2-0

K
KAMIO, YONE (JPN) H2H 1-0
KANELLOPOULOU, ANGELIKI (GRE) H2H 1-0
KANESHIRO, ETSUKO (JPN) H2H 5-0
KELAIDIS, LILIAN (SUI) H2H 2-1
KELESI, HELEN (CAN) H2H 8-0
KESSARIS, KIMBERLY (USA) H2H 1-0
KIDOWAKI, MAYA (JPN) H2H 1-0
KIJIMUTA, NAOKO (JPN) H2H 1-0
KIM, GRACE (USA) H2H 3-1
KIM, SOO-OK (KOR) H2H 1-0
KINNEY, KRISTIN (USA) H2H 1-0
KOCHTA, MARKETA (GER) H2H 2-1
KOHDE-KILSCH, CLAUDIA (GER) H2H 3-2
KORDOVA, REGINA (CZE) H2H 1-0
KRAPL, EVA (SUI) H2H 1-0
KRUGER, JOANNETTE (RSA) H2H 1-0
KSCHWENDT, KARIN (AUT) H2H 3-0

L
LANGROVA, PETRA (CZE) H2H 1-0
LAPI, LAURA (ITA) H2H 1-0
LAVAL, MAIDER (FRA) H2H 1-0
LEE, JEONG-SOON () H2H 1-0
LEE-WATERS, LINDSAY (USA) H2H 1-0
LEWIS, LYNN (USA) H2H 0-1
LI, FANG (CHN) H2H 1-0
LIKHOVTSEVA, ELENA (RUS) H2H 1-0
LINDQVIST, CATARINA (SWE) H2H 1-0
LINDSTROM, MARIA (SWE) H2H 1-0

M
MACGREGOR, CAMMY (USA) H2H 1-0
MADRUGA-OSSES, IVANNA (ARG) H2H 1-0
MAGER, PENNY (USA) H2H 3-0
MAGERS, GRETCHEN (USA) H2H 3-0
MAJOLI, IVA (CRO) H2H 1-2
MALEEVA, KATERINA (BUL) H2H 8-1
MALEEVA, MAGDALENA (BUL) H2H 0-1
MALEEVA-FRAGNIERE, MANUELA (SUI) H2H 7-2
MANDLIKOVA, HANA (AUS) H2H 2-5
MANIOKOVA, EUGENIA (RUS) H2H 1-0
MARSIKOVA, REGINA (CZE) H2H 1-0
MARTIN, STACEY (USA) H2H 1-0
MARTINEZ, CONCHITA (ESP) H2H 9-6
MASCARIN, SUSAN (USA) H2H 3-0
MCGRATH, MEREDITH (USA) H2H 2-0
MCNEIL, LORI (USA) H2H 5-2
MCQUILLAN, RACHEL (AUS) H2H 5-0
MEDRADO, PAT (BRA) H2H 1-0
MEDVEDEVA, NATALIA (UKR) H2H 4-0
MEIER, SILKE (GER) H2H 1-0
MENNING, STEFFI (GER) H2H 1-0
MESKHI, LEILA (GEO) H2H 4-1
MINTER, ANNE (AUS) H2H 2-0
MINTER, ELIZABETH (AUS) H2H 1-0
MIZOKUCHI, MIKI (JPN) H2H 1-0
MONAMI, DOMINIQUE (BEL) H2H 1-0

N
NA, HU (USA) H2H 2-0
NAGATSUKA, KYOKO (JPN) H2H 1-0
NAGELSEN, BETSY (USA) H2H 2-0
NAVRATILOVA, MARTINA (USA) H2H 6-15
NEILAND, LARISA (LAT) H2H 3-1
NEJEDLY, JANA (CAN) H2H 1-0
NELSON-DUNBAR, VICKI (USA) H2H 3-0
NIDEFFER, ROSALYN (RSA) H2H 6-2
NIELSEN, GINGER (USA) H2H 1-0
NISHIYA-KINOSHITA, AKEMI (JPN) H2H 1-0
NOVOTNA, JANA (CZE) H2H 10-3

P
PAPADAKI, CHRISTINA (GRE) H2H 1-0
PARADIS-MANGON, PASCALE (FRA) H2H Tied at 1-1
PAULUS, BARBARA (AUT) H2H 2-1
PAZ, MERCEDES (ARG) H2H 5-1
PERFETTI, FLORA (ITA) H2H 1-0
PHELPS, TERRY (USA) H2H 0-1
PIERCE, MARY (FRA) H2H 4-1
PO-MESSERLI, KIMBERLY (USA) H2H 5-0
PORWIK, CLAUDIA (GER) H2H 2-1
POSPISILOVA, JANA (CZE) H2H 1-0
POTTER, BARBARA (USA) H2H Tied at 1-1
PRAUSA, WENDY (USA) H2H 2-0
PROBST, WILTRUD (GER) H2H 1-0

Q
QUENTREC EAGLE, KARINE (FRA) H2H 2-0

R
RAPONI LONGO, EMILSE (ARG) H2H 0-1
RAYMOND, LISA (USA) H2H 3-0
REEVES, SALLY (GBR) H2H 0-1
REGGI, RAFFAELLA (ITA) H2H 6-0
REHE, STEPHANIE (USA) H2H 1-2
REINACH, ELNA (RSA) H2H 1-0
REIS, RONNI (USA) H2H 1-0
REYNOLDS, CANDY (USA) H2H 1-0
RICHARDSON, JULIE (NZL) H2H 1-0
RINALDI STUNKEL, KATHY (USA) H2H 6-0
RITTNER, BARBARA (GER) H2H 4-0
ROTTIER, STEPHANIE (NED) H2H 1-0
RUBIN, CHANDA (USA) H2H 6-3

S
SAKAGUCHI, EMIKO (JPN) H2H 1-0
SANCHEZ-VICARIO, ARANTXA (ESP) H2H 12-11
SATO, NAOKO (JPN) H2H 1-0
SAVOLDI, ELENA (ITA) H2H 1-0
SAWAMATSU, NAOKO (JPN) H2H 2-0
SCHEUER-LARSEN, TINE (DEN) H2H 1-0
SCHIMPER, KAREN (RSA) H2H 3-0
SCHULTZ-MCCARTHY, BRENDA (NED) H2H 5-0
SCHWARTZ, AMY (USA) H2H 1-0
SCHWARZ, PETRA (AUT) H2H 1-0
SELES, MONICA (USA) H2H 3-11
SERRA ZANETTI, ADRIANA (ITA) H2H 1-0
SHAEFER, KIM (USA) H2H 1-0
SHRIVER, PAM (USA) H2H 7-5
SIMPSON, RENE (CAN) H2H 1-0
SINGER, CHRISTINA (GER) H2H 0-1
SLOANE-LUNDY, SUSAN (USA) H2H 2-0
SMASHNOVA, ANNA (ISR) H2H 1-0
SMITH, PAULA (USA) H2H 1-0
SPADEA, LUANNE (USA) H2H 1-0
SPENCE, DEBBIE (USA) H2H 2-0
SPIRLEA, IRINA (ROM) H2H Tied at 1-1
STAFFORD, SHAUN (USA) H2H 1-0
STRNADOVA, ANDREA (CZE) H2H 1-0
SUGIYAMA, AI (JPN) H2H 1-0
SUIRE, CATHERINE (FRA) H2H 1-0
SUKOVA, HELENA (CZE) H2H 12-6
SVENSSON, ASA (SWE) H2H 1-2

T
TANVIER, CATHERINE (FRA) H2H 3-1
TARABINI, PATRICIA (ARG) H2H 1-0
TAUZIAT, NATHALIE (FRA) H2H 10-1
TEDJAKUSUMA, ROMANA (INA) H2H 1-0
TEMESVARI, ANDREA (HUN) H2H 1-0
TESTUD, SANDRINE (FRA) H2H 2-0
THOMPSON, LEIGH (USA) H2H 1-0
TURNBULL, WENDY (AUS) H2H 1-0

U
UYS, RENE (RSA) H2H 1-0

V
VAN DER TORRE, MARIANNE (NED) H2H 1-0
VAN LOTTUM, NOELLE (FRA) H2H 1-0
VAN NOSTRAND, MOLLY (USA) H2H 1-0
VAN RENSBURG, DINKY (RSA) H2H 2-0
VIEIRA, ANDREA (BRA) H2H 1-0
VILLAGRAN-REAMI, ADRIANA (ARG) H2H 1-0

W
WARRINGA, JUDITH (NED) H2H 1-0
WASHINGTON, MICHAELA (USA) H2H 1-0
WASSERMAN, SANDRA (BEL) H2H 1-0
WATANABE-GILTZ, JOLENE (USA) H2H 1-0
WEGINK, CLAIRE (NED) H2H 1-0
WERDEL WITMEYER, MARIANNE (USA) H2H Tied at 2-2
WHITE, ANNE (USA) H2H 2-0
WHITE, ROBIN (USA) H2H 3-2
WIESNER, JUDITH (AUT) H2H 2-0
WILD, LINDA (USA) H2H 2-0
WUNDERLICH, ANN (USA) H2H 3-1

Y
YANAGI, MASAKO (JPN) H2H Tied at 1-1

Z
ZARDO, EMANUELA (SUI) H2H 1-0
ZRUBAKOVA, RADKA (SVK) H2H 3-0
ZVEREVA, NATASHA (BLR) H2H 8-1

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 09:59 PM
17 grandslam Sf for Sabatini to Mandlikova's 14, 632-189 win-loss record aginst 565-194 win-loss record for Mandlikova, 27 singles titles and 14 doubles to Mandlikova's 27 singles titles and 6 doubles, not to mention the tour championship history which is 2 wins out of 4 finals for Sabatini to only one final by Mandlikova. Some people just cant realize just how good Sabatini was, grandslams arent everything you have to look at the whole career and who they had to play against, in my opinion Sabatini played in one of the hardest's and best periods of women's tennis.

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:02 PM
I disagree with you, Sabatini played at a time when there was a lot more competition, hence those three finals meant a lot more, and lets not mention all the SF grandslam appearances Sabatini has. Most of Sabatini loses in her head to head come before 87 and after 95, here you have the head to head you can look for yourself, the only player from the older generation who continued to win against Sabatini was Navratilova, no other.



The double standards in your logic don't wash. You only wan't to count the years Sabatini was at her peak but refuse to acknowledge all her wins over both Mandlikova and Evert came AFTER they were at their peaks. When Sabatini first beat Evert, Evert was 34 years old. Wow impressive, she beat a 34 year old Evert. Her 2nd win over Mandlikova also came at the end of Mandlikova's career. And yet you dismiss Sabatini's losses EVEN when she is ranked in the top 10.

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:20 PM
The double standards in your logic don't wash. You only wan't to count the years Sabatini was at her peak but refuse to acknowledge all her wins over both Mandlikova and Evert came AFTER they were at their peaks. When Sabatini first beat Evert, Evert was 34 years old. Wow impressive, she beat a 34 year old Evert. Her 2nd win over Mandlikova also came at the end of Mandlikova's career. And yet you dismiss Sabatini's losses EVEN when she is ranked in the top 10.


Well this applies to you as well, arent you making double standards werent Evert and Mandlikova in the top 10 when Sabatini beat them infact most of the time they were in the top 5, which makes it even better, how about seasoned veterans beating (Mandlikova was 25 and 26 and a half when she lost to Sabatini and after 87 it became hard for her to play against Sabatini who was only 17 at the time) a 16 year-old and far younger Sabatini (Sabatini was not even 16 or a top ten player for 3 of Mandlikova's 5 Sabatini wins).

Now Chris Evert was too old when she lost to Sabatini but still in top 5, and ofcorse no matter what Evert will always be better than Sabatini, that cant be disputed but what can be disputed is that Sabatini is better than Mandlikova. Mandlikova was still young when she lost to Sabatini, she was 25-6.

Matze
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Mary Pierce, Jana Novotna, Gabriela Sabatini, Conchita Martinez are all good choices!!! Some players that owned the game but not the mentality to be Nr. 1 are Nathalie Tauziat, Anke Huber and Sandrine Testud! Anna Kournikova could have reached that, if her mind and body would have stayed healthy!!! But the first 4 answers of mine are the ultimate best "Not Nr. 1 Players"!

Maria Croft
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Pierce.

Lulu.
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:22 PM
Mary Pierce

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:31 PM
and even though I love Pierce and she is one of my faves, I think Sabatini was better, she played at a harder time in the game most of her career and she was almost always more consistent, the only category in which Pierce beats Sabatini are grandslam finals 6 to Sabatini's 3, and grandslam titles 2 to Sabatini's 1. But Sabatini played against a dominating Graf and Seles and a still top 5 and strong Navratilova and those where the only players who beat her more than she beat them.

Dennis^^
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:41 PM
Pierce, definitely.

Freakan
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:41 PM
Dokic ;)

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Sabatini had 17 grandslam singles SF's, and made 28 QF's and not to mention 14 doubles titles, and 2 tour championships.
Her head to head combined against Capriati, Davenport, Sanchez-Vicario, Martinez, Pierce, Navotna, Fernandez, Garrison, Coetzer and Manuela Maleeva is 90 wins and 44 loses (11 have been to Sanchez-Vicario, Sabatini leads her 12-11 and 10 have been to Fernandez, Sabatini leads Fernandez 13-10)
Is that impressive or what.
I am sorry but Pierce, altough she has had an amazing career :worship: is not as good. Sabatini was always more consistent except maybe 96 jaj :tape: .

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:57 PM
So my choice is the always beautiful Latina Gabriela Sabatini Viva Gabbi :worship:

Havok
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:04 PM
1. Mary Pierce
2. Gabriela Sabatini
3. Conchita Martinez

spencercarlos
Aug 6th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Sabatini had 17 grandslam singles SF's, and made 28 QF's and not to mention 14 doubles titles, and 2 tour championships.
Her head to head combined against Capriati, Davenport, Sanchez-Vicario, Martinez, Pierce, Navotna, Fernandez, Garrison, Coetzer and Manuela Maleeva is 90 wins and 44 loses (11 have been to Sanchez-Vicario, Sabatini leads her 12-11 and 10 have been to Fernandez, Sabatini leads Fernandez 13-10)
Is that impressive or what.
I am sorry but Pierce, altough she has had an amazing career :worship: is not as good. Sabatini was always more consistent except maybe 96 jaj :tape: .
Gaby had 18 GS semifinals.
And sure 1996 she was not consistent mainly because of abdominal muscle injury she missed 3 and half months, 2 grand slams, and even before Wimbledon 96 Finished she was still in the top ten.
Still i consider Mary´s carreer better than Gaby, some say its tight, but 2 grand slams, and more GS finals i think do the job. Gaby has 1 GS, 2 Masters, and more titles than Pierce..
The funny thing is that Pierce was never close to be number one, like Gaby was in 1991, in 1995 she was just plain inconsistent after Aopen win and in 2000 when she was playing her best tennis, she got injured and that stoped her momentum.

zibaas
Aug 6th, 2006, 12:45 AM
Mary

mirzalover
Aug 6th, 2006, 12:49 AM
mary pierce

Cp6uja
Aug 6th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Sabatini
Mandlikova
Pierce


(Martinez, Novotna, Sukova, MJFernandez...)


Evonne Goolagong is not in this competition because first wta ranking list is after NOVEMBER 1975 and her best season is 1971 (2GS wins and 1 runer up) and most important - i never see her on court :devil: .

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 6th, 2006, 03:53 AM
Well this applies to you as well, arent you making double standards werent Evert and Mandlikova in the top 10 when Sabatini beat them infact most of the time they were in the top 5, which makes it even better, how about seasoned veterans beating (Mandlikova was 25 and 26 and a half when she lost to Sabatini and after 87 it became hard for her to play against Sabatini who was only 17 at the time) a 16 year-old and far younger Sabatini (Sabatini was not even 16 or a top ten player for 3 of Mandlikova's 5 Sabatini wins).

Now Chris Evert was too old when she lost to Sabatini but still in top 5, and ofcorse no matter what Evert will always be better than Sabatini, that cant be disputed but what can be disputed is that Sabatini is better than Mandlikova. Mandlikova was still young when she lost to Sabatini, she was 25-6.


Im sorry Gorgo but I'm afraid it is time to settle this argument for good. Yes Sabatini was a very consistant player who rarely lost to an unseeded player and had a very good record against virtually all her lower ranked opponents. But at the highest level against the very best players she just couldn't cut it. I know that is a harsh statement but if we accept that Grand Slams are the tournaments where the best players prove their worth, Sabatini just wasn't up to it against her top rivals.

As you pointed out earlier, Sabatini played during the same period as two of the most dominant players in the open era, Steffi Graf and Monica Seles. Infact the same thing can be said about Hana Mandlikova, who played during the period when Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert dominated tennis. The difference is that when it came to grand slams Gabi simply couldn't compete with her rivals or indeed ANY player who was playing at a top 4 level. Hana Mandlikova could.

In Gabriela Sabatini's career she came up against top 4 seeds in grand slams 25 times. She won only 2 of those matches. Even taking into account that Sabatini had a dreadful 1-11 record against Graf in grand slams and an 0-3 record against Seles that still leaves her with a record of 1-9 against all other top 4 ranked players in grand slams.

In contrast, against the very best players, including Navratilova and Evert, Mandlikova was always in with a chance to beat the very best. In sharp contrast to Sabatini's woeful 2-23 record against top 4 seeded players in grand slams Mandlikova had a respectable 11-19 record. This becomes even more impressive when one considers that of those 19 loses 16 were to Evert or Navratilova. Against other top 4 seeded players Mandlikova was 4-3 compared to Sabatini's 1-9 against top 4 seed players other than Graf and Seles. But even more signifigant Mandlikova was able to find a way to get a signifigant amount of wins against her top 2 rivals in grand slams also in a way Sabatini wasn't. Mandlikova actually beat Chris Evert 3 times in grand slams for a 3-10 record with slams. She was even more successful against Navratilova beating her 4 times in 10 matches in slams.

Of course against lower seeded player in slams (those seeded between 5 and 16) Sabatini has a substantially better record, a very solid impressive 25 wins against just 12 loses. That said, against such players, Mandlikova's record is even better, 22 against just 6 loses.

Listed below is the result of every match that both Sabatini and Mandlikova player against top 4 seeded opposition in Grand Slams. Matches won by Sabatini and Mandlikova are in red.


MANDLIKOVA vs Top 4 seeded players in grand slams

1979 French Open QF W.TURNBULL def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-3
1980 French Open SF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-7 6-2 6-2
1980 Wimbledon 16 E.GOOLAGONG def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-7 6-3 6-1
1980 US Open 16 H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-6 6-4
1980 US Open FR C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 5-7 6-1 6-1
1980 Australian Open FR H.MANDLIKOVA def. W.TURNBULL 6-0 7-5
1981 French Open SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. C.EVERT 7-5 6-4
1981 Wimbledon SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-5 4-6 6-1
1981 Wimbledon FR C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-2 6-2
1981 US Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-1 6-3
1981 Australian Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-4 7-5
1982 French Open QF H.MANDLIKOVA def T. AUSTIN 7-6 6-7 6-2
1982 French Open SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-0 6-2
1982 US Open QF H.MANDLIKOVA def T. AUSTIN 4-6 6-4 6-4
1982 US Open FR C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-1
1983 French Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 4-6 6-3 6-2
1983 US Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-4 6-3
1984 French Open SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 3-6 6-2 6-2
1984 Wimbledon SF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-1 6-2
1985 US Open SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. C.EVERT 4-6 6-2 6-3
1985 US Open FR H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-6 1-6 7-6
1985 Australian Open SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-7 6-1 6-4
1986 French Open QF H.MANDLIKOVA def. S.GRAF 2-6 7-6 6-1
1986 French Open SF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-1 6-1
1986 Wimbledon SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. C.EVERT 7-6 7-5
1986 Wimbledon FR M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 7-6 6-3
1987 Australian Open FR H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-5 7-6
1988 Australian Open QF S.GRAF def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-2 6-2
1989 Australian Open 16 M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-4 6-1
1989 Wimbledon 16 M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-2


SABATINI vs Top 4 seeded players in grand slams

1985 French Open QF G.SABATINI def. M. MALEEVA 6-3 1-6 7-5
1985 French Open SF C.EVERT-LLOYD def. G.SABATINI 6-4 6-1
1986 French Open 16 C.EVERT-LLOYD def. G.SABATINI 1-6 6-3 6-3
1986 Wimbledon SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 6-2 6-2
1986 US Open 16 M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 6-4 6-2
1987 French Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-4 4-6 7-5
1987 Wimbledon QF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 4-6 6-1 6-1
1987 US Open QF M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 7-5 6-3
1988 French Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 7-6
1988 US Open FR S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 3-6 6-1
1989 Australian Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 6-0
1989 US Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 3-6 6-4 6-2
1990 Wimbledon SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 6-3 6-4
1990 US Open FR G.SABATINI def. S.GRAF 6-2 7-6
1991 French Open SF M.SELES def. G.SABATINI 6-4 6-1
1991 Wimbledon FR S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-4 3-6 8-6
1992 French Open SF M.SELES def. G.SABATINI 6-3 4-6 6-4
1992 Wimbledon SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 6-3
1993 Australian Open SF M.SELES def. G.SABATINI 6-1 6-2
1993 US Open QF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-2 5-7 6-1
1994 Australian Open SF A.SANCHEZ-VICARIO def. G.SABATINI 6-1 6-2
1994 US Open SF A.SANCHEZ-VICARIO def. G.SABATINI 6-1 7-6
1995 French Open QF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-1 6-0
1995 Wimbledon QF C.MARTINEZ def. G.SABATINI 7-5 7-6
1995 US Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-4 7-6

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 6th, 2006, 03:56 AM
I think Mary :) She could have been number 1 possibly if she didn't get so many injuries :(

Pierce

What a surprise... everyone but like 3 people picked someone in their signature. OPEN UP A LITTLE PEOPLE.

who cares. maybe if u waited a little bit before making that comment...

spencercarlos
Aug 6th, 2006, 04:20 AM
Im sorry Gorgo but I'm afraid it is time to settle this argument for good. Yes Sabatini was a very consistant player who rarely lost to an unseeded player and had a very good record against virtually all her lower ranked opponents. But at the highest level against the very best players she just couldn't cut it. I know that is a harsh statement but if we accept that Grand Slams are the tournaments where the best players prove their worth, Sabatini just wasn't up to it against her top rivals.

As you pointed out earlier, Sabatini played during the same period as two of the most dominant players in the open era, Steffi Graf and Monica Seles. Infact the same thing can be said about Hana Mandlikova, who played during the period when Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert dominated tennis. The difference is that when it came to grand slams Gabi simply couldn't compete with her rivals or indeed ANY player who was playing at a top 4 level. Hana Mandlikova could.

In Gabriela Sabatini's career she came up against top 4 seeds in grand slams 25 times. She won only 2 of those matches. Even taking into account that Sabatini had a dreadful 1-11 record against Graf in grand slams and an 0-3 record against Seles that still leaves her with a record of 1-9 against all other top 4 ranked players in grand slams.

In contrast, against the very best players, including Navratilova and Evert, Mandlikova was always in with a chance to beat the very best. In sharp contrast to Sabatini's woeful 2-23 record against top 4 seeded players in grand slams Mandlikova had a respectable 11-19 record. This becomes even more impressive when one considers that of those 19 loses 16 were to Evert or Navratilova. Against other top 4 seeded players Mandlikova was 4-3 compared to Sabatini's 1-9 against top 4 seed players other than Graf and Seles. But even more signifigant Mandlikova was able to find a way to get a signifigant amount of wins against her top 2 rivals in grand slams also in a way Sabatini wasn't. Mandlikova actually beat Chris Evert 3 times in grand slams for a 3-10 record with slams. She was even more successful against Navratilova beating her 4 times in 10 matches in slams.

Of course against lower seeded player in slams (those seeded between 5 and 16) Sabatini has a substantially better record, a very solid impressive 25 wins against just 12 loses. That said, against such players, Mandlikova's record is even better, 22 against just 6 loses.

Listed below is the result of every match that both Sabatini and Mandlikova player against top 4 seeded opposition in Grand Slams. Matches won by Sabatini and Mandlikova are in red.


MANDLIKOVA vs Top 4 seeded players in grand slams

1979 French Open QF W.TURNBULL def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-3
1980 French Open SF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-7 6-2 6-2
1980 Wimbledon 16 E.GOOLAGONG def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-7 6-3 6-1
1980 US Open 16 H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-6 6-4
1980 US Open FR C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 5-7 6-1 6-1
1980 Australian Open FR H.MANDLIKOVA def. W.TURNBULL 6-0 7-5
1981 French Open SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. C.EVERT 7-5 6-4
1981 Wimbledon SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-5 4-6 6-1
1981 Wimbledon FR C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-2 6-2
1981 US Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-1 6-3
1981 Australian Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-4 7-5
1982 French Open QF H.MANDLIKOVA def T. AUSTIN 7-6 6-7 6-2
1982 French Open SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-0 6-2
1982 US Open QF H.MANDLIKOVA def T. AUSTIN 4-6 6-4 6-4
1982 US Open FR C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-1
1983 French Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 4-6 6-3 6-2
1983 US Open QF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-4 6-3
1984 French Open SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 3-6 6-2 6-2
1984 Wimbledon SF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-1 6-2
1985 US Open SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. C.EVERT 4-6 6-2 6-3
1985 US Open FR H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-6 1-6 7-6
1985 Australian Open SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-7 6-1 6-4
1986 French Open QF H.MANDLIKOVA def. S.GRAF 2-6 7-6 6-1
1986 French Open SF C.EVERT def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-1 6-1
1986 Wimbledon SF H.MANDLIKOVA def. C.EVERT 7-6 7-5
1986 Wimbledon FR M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 7-6 6-3
1987 Australian Open FR H.MANDLIKOVA def. M.NAVRATILOVA 7-5 7-6
1988 Australian Open QF S.GRAF def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-2 6-2
1989 Australian Open 16 M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-4 6-1
1989 Wimbledon 16 M.NAVRATILOVA def. H.MANDLIKOVA 6-3 6-2


SABATINI vs Top 4 seeded players in grand slams

1985 French Open QF G.SABATINI def. M. MALEEVA 6-3 1-6 7-5
1985 French Open SF C.EVERT-LLOYD def. G.SABATINI 6-4 6-1
1986 French Open 16 C.EVERT-LLOYD def. G.SABATINI 1-6 6-3 6-3
1986 Wimbledon SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 6-2 6-2
1986 US Open 16 M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 6-4 6-2
1987 French Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-4 4-6 7-5
1987 Wimbledon QF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 4-6 6-1 6-1
1987 US Open QF M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 7-5 6-3
1988 French Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 7-6
1988 US Open FR S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 3-6 6-1
1989 Australian Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 6-0
1989 US Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 3-6 6-4 6-2
1990 Wimbledon SF M.NAVRATILOVA def. G.SABATINI 6-3 6-4
1990 US Open FR G.SABATINI def. S.GRAF 6-2 7-6
1991 French Open SF M.SELES def. G.SABATINI 6-4 6-1
1991 Wimbledon FR S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-4 3-6 8-6
1992 French Open SF M.SELES def. G.SABATINI 6-3 4-6 6-4
1992 Wimbledon SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-3 6-3
1993 Australian Open SF M.SELES def. G.SABATINI 6-1 6-2
1993 US Open QF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-2 5-7 6-1
1994 Australian Open SF A.SANCHEZ-VICARIO def. G.SABATINI 6-1 6-2
1994 US Open SF A.SANCHEZ-VICARIO def. G.SABATINI 6-1 7-6
1995 French Open QF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-1 6-0
1995 Wimbledon QF C.MARTINEZ def. G.SABATINI 7-5 7-6
1995 US Open SF S.GRAF def. G.SABATINI 6-4 7-6
Sabatini is 1-9 against the rest but that rest is mostly Evert, Navratilova, Sanchez Vicario is not like a free way road to advance. Only Martinez is the other name that beat Sabatini once in GS play being a top 4 seeded.
Anyway i don´t there is the need to discuss it, Hana had a much better carreer than Sabatini hands down, and by a lot.
But i have to say that Sabatini was much more closer to number one than Hana did, im not sure, i did not watch tennis then. But Gaby was a mere 10-30 average ranking points from being number one from May 1991 to August 1991.
Still Hana is the best player never to reach number one period.

Dani12
Aug 6th, 2006, 04:53 AM
Definitly Evonne!

LenaD shouldn't be no.1

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 6th, 2006, 05:06 AM
Sabatini is 1-9 against the rest but that rest is mostly Evert, Navratilova, Sanchez Vicario is not like a free way road to advance. Only Martinez is the other name that beat Sabatini once in GS play being a top 4 seeded.
Anyway i don´t there is the need to discuss it, Hana had a much better carreer than Sabatini hands down, and by a lot.
But i have to say that Sabatini was much more closer to number one than Hana did, im not sure, i did not watch tennis then. But Gaby was a mere 10-30 average ranking points from being number one from May 1991 to August 1991.
Still Hana is the best player never to reach number one period.

Gosh, what can I say to that. :worship: To be honest I feel a bit bad because Sabatini is a great player and she would definately get my vote over Martinez or even Pierce (although Pierce did win an extra slam) and I'm glad she is in the Hall of Fame - she definately deserves to be there.

Hana didn't have Martina's athletism, or Evert's consistancy and focus. She didn't have anything like the professionalism and determination of either. But she made up for it in sheer talent and in the matches I watched between Hana and Chris/Martina it was most often Hana who would produce the most spellbinding shots win or lose. She really was this incredibly graceful enigma who could suddenly get really hot and just hit a slew of shots that didn't seem possible. She could find some amazing angles.

But back to Gabriela. Gabriela too did have great talent and for a period of two or three years she did have a great record over Steffi even though with the exception of the 1990 US Open she wasn't able to take care of her at grand slams. Yet compared to Hana, Sabatini did I must admit, have several things going for her too. Compared to Mandlikova, Sabatini was a far more consistant professional player rarely losing to someone she shouldn't at least until that Roland Garros when she lost that big lead to MJ Fernandez. The same could not be said for Mandlikova who could, if the muse didnt materialise, lose to anyone. Sabatini always worked very hard and win or lose I don't think she ever didn't give her best, which is a rare quality. She was also very beautiful and a classy ambassador for the sport and you are right to remember her fondly.

spencercarlos
Aug 6th, 2006, 05:38 AM
Gosh, what can I say to that. :worship: To be honest I feel a bit bad because Sabatini is a great player and she would definately get my vote over Martinez or even Pierce (although Pierce did win an extra slam) and I'm glad she is in the Hall of Fame - she definately deserves to be there.

Hana didn't have Martina's athletism, or Evert's consistancy and focus. She didn't have anything like the professionalism and determination of either. But she made up for it in sheer talent and in the matches I watched between Hana and Chris/Martina it was most often Hana who would produce the most spellbinding shots win or lose. She really was this incredibly graceful enigma who could suddenly get really hot and just hit a slew of shots that didn't seem possible. She could find some amazing angles.

But back to Gabriela. Gabriela too did have great talent and for a period of two or three years she did have a great record over Steffi even though with the exception of the 1990 US Open she wasn't able to take care of her at grand slams. Yet compared to Hana, Sabatini did I must admit, have several things going for her too. Compared to Mandlikova, Sabatini was a far more consistant professional player rarely losing to someone she shouldn't at least until that Roland Garros when she lost that big lead to MJ Fernandez. The same could not be said for Mandlikova who could, if the muse didnt materialise, lose to anyone. Sabatini always worked very hard and win or lose I don't think she ever didn't give her best, which is a rare quality. She was also very beautiful and a classy ambassador for the sport and you are right to remember her fondly.
I agree with everything you said.
Hana had just pure raw talent, pretty much like Sabatini too. And the problem for both was more mentally than anything, except i think Hana was a little more complete (the serve :p ). We could thrown Jana into this one too.
Hana and Jana are two amazing players to watch and so similar, very classic and very complete players, old school tennis, i wish there would be some players like them now.

TS
Aug 6th, 2006, 07:00 AM
so was Nastya in 2004 :wavey:

Yes she was. But take a look at her GS record aside from her Roland Garros victory. A few QF finishes and that's it. That doesn't make a number 1 player in my book.

cakiteror
Aug 6th, 2006, 07:54 AM
the reason why mary has never been close to no.1 is that she has years of ijuries!
the first major injury cost her almost the whole 1996,than from 2000-2005,we cant call miss pierce a healthy and fit tennis player,the first half of 2006,well we simply know she didnt play!and those are just big injuries,not to mention the small ones that didnt last that long,but they they took her off court!
so, dear boys and girls,in my book there is apsolutely no questions about it,miss pierce is the best player that hasnt become no.1!

cakiteror
Aug 6th, 2006, 07:55 AM
oh,not to mention how when ever she plays at her best ijuries appear!

cakiteror
Aug 6th, 2006, 07:58 AM
pierce
sabatini
martinez
hana
jana
legends that have never become no.1,but had fantastic cariers and played great tennis!i hope that there is space for all of them in the tennis hall of fame!

skanky~skanketta
Aug 6th, 2006, 07:59 AM
Sabatini, Mandlikova.

Matt01
Aug 6th, 2006, 10:20 AM
Sabatini had 17 grandslam singles SF's, and made 28 QF's and not to mention 14 doubles titles, and 2 tour championships.
Her head to head combined against Capriati, Davenport, Sanchez-Vicario, Martinez, Pierce, Navotna, Fernandez, Garrison, Coetzer and Manuela Maleeva is 90 wins and 44 loses (11 have been to Sanchez-Vicario, Sabatini leads her 12-11 and 10 have been to Fernandez, Sabatini leads Fernandez 13-10)
Is that impressive or what.
I am sorry but Pierce, altough she has had an amazing career :worship: is not as good. Sabatini was always more consistent except maybe 96 jaj :tape: .

You forgot to mention that Pierce won more GS titles than Sabatini and reached more GS finals. :p And GS are the most important things :angel:

donellcarey
Aug 6th, 2006, 10:23 AM
Mary Pierce

So Disrespectful
Aug 6th, 2006, 10:40 AM
Mary Pierce for sure!

Chrissie-fan
Aug 6th, 2006, 10:48 AM
that's hard because you're comparing different players from different eras....blah, blah....

Evonne Goolagong - 7 slams
Mary Pierce -2 slams (much tougher to win slams now)

Really? Goolagong had to compete against Court, King, Evert, Navratilova, Wade, etc...

!Gio!
Aug 6th, 2006, 11:00 AM
Gaby had 18 GS semifinals.
And sure 1996 she was not consistent mainly because of abdominal muscle injury she missed 3 and half months, 2 grand slams, and even before Wimbledon 96 Finished she was still in the top ten.
Still i consider Mary´s carreer better than Gaby, some say its tight, but 2 grand slams, and more GS finals i think do the job. Gaby has 1 GS, 2 Masters, and more titles than Pierce..
The funny thing is that Pierce was never close to be number one, like Gaby was in 1991, in 1995 she was just plain inconsistent after Aopen win and in 2000 when she was playing her best tennis, she got injured and that stoped her momentum. you see I did write that Mary had more finals and more slams. right here.

Kart
Aug 6th, 2006, 11:17 AM
Gabriela Sabatini is underrated on this board - except by her fans, of course.

I never watched Hana Mandlikova play but from what I understand she was a fantastic player in a period that had two amazing players ahead of her so although I feel strange voting for her when I never saw her on the court I guess I have to.

As for Mary Pierce, well, all those injuries undoubtedly took away from another great talent but ranking no.1 has always been about consistency and she has lacked that throughout her career - which makes me feel that she falls behind the likes of Martinez in this regard.

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 6th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Gabriela Sabatini is underrated on this board - except by her fans, of course.

I never watched Hana Mandlikova play but from what I understand she was a fantastic player in a period that had two amazing players ahead of her so although I feel strange voting for her when I never saw her on the court I guess I have to.

As for Mary Pierce, well, all those injuries undoubtedly took away from another great talent but ranking no.1 has always been about consistency and she has lacked that throughout her career - which makes me feel that she falls behind the likes of Martinez in this regard.

Agree.
1. Hana
2. Gabriela
3. Conchita
4. Mary
5. Jana
6. Nastya (and yes I would like to put Nastya higher)

But it should be pointed out that just to be considered in this discussion makes one a great player. No shame in being behind Hana and Gabi in this list.

serena_forever
Aug 6th, 2006, 01:44 PM
Mary

mike/topgun
Aug 6th, 2006, 04:23 PM
There's no need to argue, cos it's Mary.

fer_86
Aug 7th, 2006, 12:05 AM
Conchita Martinez!!! :worship:

guyinsf
Aug 7th, 2006, 12:44 AM
Pierce can stil be number one, IF she loses 20lbs, stay fit and move faster on the court, the rest will be a beauty to watch since she's got one of the most lethal baseline games ever.

Zauber
Aug 7th, 2006, 03:01 AM
i dont know why so many people think so highly of Mary Pierce?
movement one of the poorest.
variety does not exist.
She has power that is it.
concentration poor twitch look in mirror, oh please feel sorry for me.

Hardiansf
Aug 7th, 2006, 06:37 AM
Mary???? :rolleyes: :confused:

The answer is between Hana & Gaby. They are more closer to #1 ranking than Mary. Hello???

Marcus Jordan
Aug 7th, 2006, 06:59 AM
Hingis 2006 is the best player never to be ranked #1.

galadriel
Aug 7th, 2006, 07:04 AM
Conchita Martinez :D

Gaby Sabatini :D

PatrickRyan
Aug 7th, 2006, 07:26 AM
1. mary
2. conchita
3. sabitini
4. myskina
5. lena

MLF
Aug 7th, 2006, 09:36 AM
1 Goolagong
2 Mandlikova
3 Sabatini

Mary's just not been consistent enough over the years to merit a place in the top 3 list.

cakiteror
Aug 7th, 2006, 12:56 PM
zauber seems to be blind!
you are talking about pierce ten years ago!
if you had seen any of her last year matces you would see her variety!
she can hit hard,play a volley,slice,make a perfect drop shot,but i guess thats not a variety!and i guess you know more about tennis than i do!

senorgato
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:44 PM
Hana Mandlikova - she had great success at Grand Slams and against Martina. Her record vs. Chris not so great, though.

Gabriela Sabatini - She was very competitive with Steffi and Monica when they were in the top3. I believe Sabatini was one match away from #1 in April or May of 1991 or 1992 (?).

Evonne Goolagong - definitely one of the greatest players.

I do not agree with Conchita or Mary P. Conchita had a horrific record against some of the greats of the game and wasn't consistent with her results throughout her career. Mary P is the ultimate in having a one-dimensional game. And her consistency is very, very spotty.

Matt01
Aug 7th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Gabriela Sabatini - She was very competitive with Steffi and Monica when they were in the top3.

I don't think so. It was already said that Sabatini had a lot of problems with Steffi and Monica when they were top. She could beat Seles in their Italian Open finals and managed to win some wins in a row against Steffi when Steffi was in a slump 91/92, but other than the US Open 90, she never was able to win the important matches against them.

Matt01
Aug 7th, 2006, 08:51 PM
Hana Mandlikova - she had great success at Grand Slams and against Martina. Her record vs. Chris not so great, though.

Sorry for quoting you again, but as far as I know Hana had a better record against Chris than against Martina, I'm not sure about their GS meetings though.

I think that Chris rather liked to play Hana than Martina liked to play Hana, though, because Martina preferred to play players who were not so agressive and stayed at the baseline (like Chris) over players who often came to the net (like Hana).

Steffica Greles
Aug 7th, 2006, 09:18 PM
Names that spring to mind:

Gabriela Sabatini: highest rank, no.3.

Gabi was just one win away. A semi-final win over Seles at the 1991 French Open would have seen her leapfrog both her and Graf to no.1.

Jana Novotna: highest rank, no.2

Novotna was also just one win away from the no.1 ranking. Had she defeated Hingis at the 1998 U.S Open (and she was 4-1 up in the final set), she also would have ascended to the top spot.

Hana Mandlikova: highest rank, no.2 (or was it #3?)

Had she been more consistent, she also would have reached the pinnacle. She was perfectly capable of beating either Evert or Navratilova and at the 1985 U.S Open she defeated both of them in the last two rounds to win the title.

Conchita Martinez: highest rank, no.2

While Conchita was never the type of threat to the champions of the era when she was at her peak, it must be mentioned that a player who wins Charleston, Amelia Island, Warsaw, Rome (defeating the no.1, Sanchez-Vicario), San Diego, Los Angeles and reaches the semi-finals of the four grandslams all in one calendar year (1995) would today be ranked no.1.

Mary Pierce: highest rank, no.3

While Mary has never had the consistency, she undoubtedly has the game. She's defeated Graf, Sanchez-Vicario, Hingis, Seles, Mauresmo, Henin-Hardenne, Clijsters, Venus, Serena, Sharapova and Davenport all when they've been near the top of their games.

~Poseidon~
Aug 7th, 2006, 09:58 PM
Pierce
Sabatini
Dokic

senorgato
Aug 7th, 2006, 11:25 PM
I don't think so. It was already said that Sabatini had a lot of problems with Steffi and Monica when they were top. She could beat Seles in their Italian Open finals and managed to win some wins in a row against Steffi when Steffi was in a slump 91/92, but other than the US Open 90, she never was able to win the important matches against them.

Her losses to Steffi and Monica weren't necessarily blow-outs, either. And Steffi was not in a "slump" in 91/92. Monica and Gabi were more competitive with her at that time.

senorgato
Aug 7th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Sorry for quoting you again, but as far as I know Hana had a better record against Chris than against Martina, I'm not sure about their GS meetings though.

I think that Chris rather liked to play Hana than Martina liked to play Hana, though, because Martina preferred to play players who were not so agressive and stayed at the baseline (like Chris) over players who often came to the net (like Hana).

Hana's record against either player wasn't great. I think she lost 14 consecutive matches to Chris. But Hana seemed to be able to take the net away from Martina.

spencercarlos
Aug 7th, 2006, 11:44 PM
Conchita Martinez: highest rank, no.2

While Conchita was never the type of threat to the champions of the era when she was at her peak, it must be mentioned that a player who wins Charleston, Amelia Island, Warsaw, Rome (defeating the no.1, Sanchez-Vicario), San Diego, Los Angeles and reaches the semi-finals of the four grandslams all in one calendar year (1995) would today be ranked no.1.

No kidding about the ranking system in fact i remmember the first year i followed tennis in 92 when Sabatini had more RACE Points (Kraft Tour points standings for the year) than Graf pretty much until October when Steffi won like 4 straight indoor events.
All of this by holding:
3 GS SF 1992
1 GS QF 1992
3 Tier I wins (Rome, Hilton Head, Tokio PP 1992)
3 Tier II wins (Sydney, Amelia Island 1992)
1 Tier I Final (Miami) 1992
Sf Masters (91)

Just imagine 1990-1991 at one point she was holding:
1 GS Usopen 90
1 GS Final Wimbledon 91
1 Master Final 90
1 GS Semifinal RG 91
1 GS QF Australian Open 91
4 Tier I win (Rome, Hilton Head, Tokio PP, VS Florida ) 91
1 Tier II win (Amelia Island) 91
1 Tier I Final Miami (1991)

Add to this 4 wins over top ranked Steffi Graf (usopen 90, masters 90, tokio 91, VS Florida 91), 1 win over top Ranked Monica Seles (Rome 91). 2 Wins over second ranked Graf (Amelia Island 91, Miami 91).
That would have been more than enough to be number one with today´s ranking :p

Davenselesport
Aug 8th, 2006, 02:44 AM
The young farts on here have no desire to learn tennis history. It's very sad. :sad:

Okay then, please describe in detail the tennis happenings in the year 1923 :p

rada
Aug 8th, 2006, 02:59 AM
Mary:)

Mr_Molik
Aug 8th, 2006, 03:52 AM
why is everyone saying players like pierce, novotna, sabatini? they have 2 slams max. evonne won 7 singles slams not including all the doubles she won.

senorgato
Aug 8th, 2006, 06:06 PM
No kidding about the ranking system in fact i remmember the first year i followed tennis in 92 when Sabatini had more RACE Points (Kraft Tour points standings for the year) than Graf pretty much until October when Steffi won like 4 straight indoor events.
All of this by holding:
3 GS SF 1992
1 GS QF 1992
3 Tier I wins (Rome, Hilton Head, Tokio PP 1992)
3 Tier II wins (Sydney, Amelia Island 1992)
1 Tier I Final (Miami) 1992
Sf Masters (91)

Just imagine 1990-1991 at one point she was holding:
1 GS Usopen 90
1 GS Final Wimbledon 91
1 Master Final 90
1 GS Semifinal RG 91
1 GS QF Australian Open 91
4 Tier I win (Rome, Hilton Head, Tokio PP, VS Florida ) 91
1 Tier II win (Amelia Island) 91
1 Tier I Final Miami (1991)

Add to this 4 wins over top ranked Steffi Graf (usopen 90, masters 90, tokio 91, VS Florida 91), 1 win over top Ranked Monica Seles (Rome 91). 2 Wins over second ranked Graf (Amelia Island 91, Miami 91).
That would have been more than enough to be number one with today´s ranking :p

AGREED!!!

Serena_thebest
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Mary Pierce ... :worship: It's so weird she never reached the top spot. But everything has his reasons I guess :shrug:

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:11 PM
AGREED!!!

The differance in today's ranking is there are no bonus points based on the ranking of who you beat. So how would her 4 wins over Graf help her?

Ksenia.
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Yes, Mary for sure

brent-o
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:22 PM
I am continually amazed by so call fans of the game who cant comment on players from earlier eras...
Especially when the information is at your damn finger tips!
When i was a junior player i read every bio, studied every year end Tennis Magazine when they used to list ALL the slams and winners and rank players by surface.. What has happened that no one here can even comment on players from the 80's much less prior to that!

You can't base it just on the numbers. Just because someone has achieved the most does not mean their games are that much better than their often under-achieving opponents. Sometimes it is the case but not always. Sometimes numbers lie. Forgive today's generation if they weren't around back then and don't have the time to flip endlessly through the record books. Besides, I think most hardcore tennis fans these days are genuinely interested in the great players of the past. But I know personally reading that Player A dominated for two years tells me jack squat about how good their backhand was, what a joy they were to watch, etc. I'd rather hear firsthand accounts from people who saw them play.

Shvedbarilescu
Aug 8th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Hana's record against either player wasn't great. I think she lost 14 consecutive matches to Chris. But Hana seemed to be able to take the net away from Martina.

Keep in mind these 2 players along with Graf have the best records of any women in the open era. No one had "great" records against these players.
As it happens only Evonne Goolagong and Navratilova had more wins against Evert than Hana's six. And Hana was able to get those wins at big times too. How many people beat Chris Evert at Roland Garros? Hana did. She also beat Chris at Wimbledon and the US Open. I would say that she had a very good record against Evert all things considered. She lost 10 matches in a row against Chris at one point but never 14.

Hana also had good success against Navratilova, being one of the only players to be her at Wimbledon and also winning in 2 Grand Slam finals against hern at the US Open and Australian Open. Only Evert, Graf, Seles, Goolagong and Austin had more wins against Martina than Mandlikova.

basset
Aug 9th, 2006, 10:20 AM
On Talent and game i think Mary Pierce, she had the potential to be one of the greats

on talent and game yes. but what about her fitness? when you look at her over the years there has been more than one period where she just was to heavy. i am not sure if mary was always 100% devoted to tennis..

AleOrtu
Aug 11th, 2006, 08:45 PM
Gabriela Sabatini.