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dagamezbest
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:41 AM
In order of number of 2006 wins so far:

1. Vasilisa Bardina- 38 wins

http://globoesporte.globo.com/ESP/Home/foto/0,,3316208,00.jpg

2. Nicole Vaidisova- 28 wins

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/01/23/vaidisova1_gallery__284x400.jpg

3. Michaella Krajicek- 22 wins

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/ap_photo/20060327/all/l1838824.jpg

4. Ana Ivanovic- 19 wins

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41231000/jpg/_41231820_iva_ap_220x300.jpg

5. Svetana Pironkova- 17 wins

http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2006-01/58441.jpg

6. Tatiana Golovin- 16 wins

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050213/sp3.jpg

7. Vania King- 13 wins

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/oly_full.57021532rb014_pacific_life_.jpg

These are the 18 and under girls on tour, a couple do turn 19 later on in the year though, but that is a talented group of girls otherwise they wouldnt be in the top 100. But out of this group I believe Ana has the most talent with Tatiana coming in close second. But the rest of the girls are pretty close where it comes to talent and all will have good careers. Who do you guys think is the best out of this group.

Derek.
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:52 AM
Nicole has the most talent. :hearts:

Derek.
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:54 AM
You can't judge by wins either because Bardina played ITF's.

blumaroo
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:57 AM
If we're talking sheer talent then Ana.
Nicole is clearly the best now though.

dizoo
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:17 AM
Nicole is the best at the moment
Krajicek is the most complete

Ana is too fat

i don't know what's Vania King doind in this list

Dani12
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:21 AM
Nicole and Ana, Ana could possibly be better. But seems to screw it up all the time.

Derek.
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:27 AM
Krajicek is the most complete

:spit:

LegionArgentina
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:31 AM
I dont know who has talent in that list they have powe but not talent

LegionArgentina
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:32 AM
Pironkova

mboyle
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:33 AM
I don't understand why people get so transfixed by Ana's game. I love her, but she almost unanimously gets dubbed more talented than Nicole. Nicole is the single most talented player on tour. She hits the hardest, serves the most accurately and the hardest both first and second, volleys solidly, moves solidly and is solid mentally (she slips more than Justine, say, but she is solid.) Ana's second serve is a mess technically. She is very very talented, but it should not be clear that she is more talented than Nicole, just as it should not be clear that Nicole is more talented.

However, to say that Golovin has more raw talent than Nicole is literally laughable. I love Tatiana and she is very talented, but she doesn't have the potential to win 10+ majors. She just doesn't.

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:34 AM
You can't judge by wins either because Bardina played ITF's.

Exactly, and some have to play alot of quallie matches, while others don't too...

mboyle
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:34 AM
I dont know who has talent in that list they have powe but not talent

Power takes talent to control. I hate when people say that power does not take talent. Have you ever tried to cream the ball on every shot? I have. It doesn't stay in. The ability to hit hard and consistently keep the ball in takes more raw talent than any of those cute little shots Martina pulls off that make people ooo and ah.

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:36 AM
Besides, people see talent differently anyway, so it's a bit subjective.

I mean if you think about it, you could just take them by ranking and order them that way, you can look at number of wins, you can look at who they have beaten - there's so many ways to look at it.

UDACHi
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:37 AM
Nicole is the single most talented player on tour.

deathdeathdeathdeathdeath.

Cat's Pajamas
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:39 AM
I don't think Vaidisova has the potential to win 10+ majors either :spit: maybe a few but double digits?? You need to get your head out of the sky :o

RenaSlam.
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:42 AM
Nicole.

Derek.
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:42 AM
Nicole is the single most talented player on tour.


OMG!

sfhashfasfjasljfajasfhalsgjavjsklafjwifuasjfajasjf

:spit:

*death* x 38567259125412742472472470525

mboyle, please get out of Nikki's ass. :tape:

As much as I like Nicole and see her talent, she's not the most talented player on tour.

Please go to your nearest mental hospital! :wavey:

mboyle
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:43 AM
I don't think Vaidisova has the potential to win 10+ majors either :spit: maybe a few but double digits?? You need to get your head out of the sky :o

I don't think Nicole WILL win 10+ majors. I just said she has the potential to. She has weapons. Golovin has no real weapons. You can win majors without weapons, but you can't dominate the tour without weapons.

LegionArgentina
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:43 AM
OMG!

sfhashfasfjasljfajasfhalsgjavjsklafjwifuasjfajasjf

:spit:

*death* x 38567259125412742472472470525

mboyle, please get out of Nikki's ass. :tape:

As much as I like Nicole and see her talent, she's not the most talented player on tour.

Please go to your nearst mental hospital! :wavey:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

dagamezbest
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Besides, people see talent differently anyway, so it's a bit subjective.

I mean if you think about it, you could just take them by ranking and order them that way, you can look at number of wins, you can look at who they have beaten - there's so many ways to look at it.

You are right there are alot of different way you can look at this. I was going to put them in order of rank but thats just to normal, I thought I find a different way to look at the players. Sometimes rank doesnt do its justice. I know the top 3 girls have not beating the quality players that the other 7 have but it just gives you a different look at the field, and also lets you know who doing the best. No matter what kind of players those 3 girls have played to come up with that many wins just over the first have of the season is pretty impressive if you ask me.

supergrunt
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:58 AM
definatley Nichole! ;)

Mightymirza
Aug 5th, 2006, 01:59 AM
Ivanovic!!

morningglory
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:12 AM
Nicky :)

Buitenzorg
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:45 AM
I would say BARDINA ;)

delicatecutter
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:51 AM
Nicole will be lucky to win 2 majors. She lost to Kuzzy at RG and Kuzzy was clearly nervous and not playing her aggressive game!! Bad loss from her standpoint.

Ana is obviously the most talented on this list. I can see her winning majors once she gets into better shape. (Ahh, the Ana mantra. But how do we love her!)

Andy.
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:53 AM
I would say Ivanovic her game is so nice to watch

Derek.
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:00 AM
Nicole will be lucky to win 2 majors. She lost to Kuzzy at RG and Kuzzy was clearly nervous and not playing her aggressive game!! Bad loss from her standpoint.

:rolleyes:

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:41 AM
Nicole will be lucky to win 2 majors. She lost to Kuzzy at RG and Kuzzy was clearly nervous and not playing her aggressive game!! Bad loss from her standpoint.

Ana is obviously the most talented on this list. I can see her winning majors once she gets into better shape. (Ahh, the Ana mantra. But how do we love her!)

:tape:

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:42 AM
I would say Ivanovic her game is so nice to watch

Sorry, but what's that got to do with talent? :lol:

Mana
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:52 AM
Nicole will be lucky to win 2 majors. She lost to Kuzzy at RG and Kuzzy was clearly nervous and not playing her aggressive game!! Bad loss from her standpoint.

Ana is obviously the most talented on this list. I can see her winning majors once she gets into better shape. (Ahh, the Ana mantra. But how do we love her!)

:help:

OMFG, this is quiet possibley one of thw worst posts this year. I hate Nicole, but fuck is she talented! Theres soo many things I could say about this post, but I dont have the time. (Or the concentration span)

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:53 AM
:help:

OMFG, this is quiet possibley one of thw worst posts this year. I hate Nicole, but fuck is she talented! Theres soo many things I could say about this post, but I dont have the time. (Or the concentration span)

:lol: Which it's why it's easier to just use the ":tape:" smilie. ;)

!Gio!
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:20 AM
*Right now its definately Vaidisova, altough her game kind of reminds me of sharapova's. But I definately can even see her in the top 3 in a few years, if not at the end of next year, really depends on her. She has a really strong game, she is really powerful. As a player she is not my favorite, but have to hand it to the girl she seems like the real deal. And those groundies are amazing.
*Ana Ivanovic is right behind Nicole in my opinion, but lacks her motivation, she even in my opinion has shown more weapons in her game, she is more versatile and of the two she has the more complete game, but I think her head is not quite there yet, she hasnt proven to me yet that she can break that next step, the step Vaidisova just broke, getting inside the top 10, and more importantly playing like the top 10. Who knows what will happen. Ana still has time, she might just suprise us and pass through the finnish line in first, only time will tell.
*Tatiana Golovin is really talented, has great instincts for the game, she has to win the big matches and dominate the less important ones. In other words, she has to excel in the Slams and also post at least semis and finals at the other Tiers. When she is serving well it seems like her whole game comes together.
*Michaella Krajicek I think just might be the most talented naturally talented of the youngsters, Lots of untapped talent, but she just hasnt showed enough of her self yet, she is in transition, and this next couple of months will show just how good she can be.
*Tzveti Pironkova, is a very talented girl but she is a late bloomer. She didnt have the money and wasnt supported enough by her federation to be able to start off traveling as young as someone such as Nicole, Michaela, or even Sesil. This is really her breaktrough year, she is finally and for the first time in the maindraws of grandslams and of the bigger tournaments, early this year she made the decision to play the bigger tournaments so that she could play the bigger names and gain more experience that has not helped her ranking much. But she has improved a lot in her game and as each month goes by she is improving and becoming better and better, she has had some great wins and matches on the tour, but she just hasnt been able to back them up. She beats a big name and than loses to somebody she is expected to beat. However that is just part of the process, part of gaining that experience, but she is on her way up, she has all surface type of game, and she is solid in every department and as of late has even improved in the volley/net aspect of her game, and her serve has great potential to be one of the best, however it still remains inconsistent, but she is only getting better.

as for the other two I really havent seen them play enough, from what I have seen from Vania, I wasnt too impressed, she seems like a solid 100 player who is nothing out of the ordinary, but to be honest I havent seen enough of her game, only time will tell.

MrSerenaWilliams
Aug 5th, 2006, 08:58 AM
odd question...I guess Nicole right now is SHOWING/USING her talent best, but I think that Tati or Misa are a BIT more talented..Vania is good...she just needs some seasoning

Dasha_
Aug 5th, 2006, 09:11 AM
Vaidisova is great and very talented.

Although, I really believe Ana is the most talented. She just doesn't work that much.... I am affraid she could become a huge waste of talent - just like Marat Safin... Hope I am wrong....

-Makiri-
Aug 5th, 2006, 10:38 AM
Nicole!

Viktymise
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Tszveti has alot of potential, with the right coach and the right amount of work put in she could be a top 10er

stijntje
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:33 PM
Krajicek is the most complete



:tape: :tape: :tape:

iPatty
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:50 PM
Krajicek is the most complete

I agree.

Freakan
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:43 PM
For some people: the question is: who is the most TALENTED, not: who has the best results...

dagamezbest
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:49 PM
For some people: the question is: who is the most TALENTED, not: who has the best results...

Thank You! Some people dont understand that.

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:30 PM
:tape: :tape: :tape:

:tape: :tape: :tape: back at ya.

DutchieGirl
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Thank You! Some people dont understand that.

Well then why did you start off by posting the number of wins? That doesn't proove talent either!

Derek.
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:33 PM
Well then why did you start off by posting the number of wins? That doesn't proove talent either!

:lol: :worship:

frenchie
Aug 5th, 2006, 11:44 PM
I'm still more impressed with Ana's game. She has one of the best FH in the game and has most of the shots in the tennis book! :worship:

Vaidisova's game is a little overrated IMO. It only consists in big serve and FH. The rest of her game is average ( :lol: at those who said she can volley)I definitely can't see her winning a GS, at least in the next few years.I could be wrong though ;)

Krajicek is a good and talented player but needs to work physically.

Tati lacks a better weapon. I'm not sure about her motivation too??

Pironkova could surprise us. She moves well and has solid and accurate groundstrokes. She needs to add variety (and buy a serve too :tape: )

I've never seen Bardina :confused:

Don't forget to include Anna C. She could surprise us with her consistent game ;)

davidmario
Aug 6th, 2006, 12:51 AM
The first picture is Vaidisova and not Bardina:lol:

DutchieGirl
Aug 6th, 2006, 01:10 AM
I'm still more impressed with Ana's game. She has one of the best FH in the game and has most of the shots in the tennis book! :worship:

Vaidisova's game is a little overrated IMO. It only consists in big serve and FH. The rest of her game is average ( :lol: at those who said she can volley)I definitely can't see her winning a GS, at least in the next few years.I could be wrong though ;)

Krajicek is a good and talented player but needs to work physically.

Tati lacks a better weapon. I'm not sure about her motivation too??

Pironkova could surprise us. She moves well and has solid and accurate groundstrokes. She needs to add variety (and buy a serve too :tape: )

I've never seen Bardina :confused:

Don't forget to include Anna C. She could surprise us with her consistent game ;)


Anna C = Chakvetadze? She's 19. ;)

Mana
Aug 6th, 2006, 01:17 AM
In

1. Vasilisa Bardina- 38 wins

http://globoesporte.globo.com/ESP/Home/foto/0,,3316208,00.jpg



:tape:

blumaroo
Aug 6th, 2006, 01:28 AM
Everyone interprets talent in a different way. In terms of natural ball striking and touch I would say Ana. No one reminds me more of Lindsay (who is the cleanest ball striker at the moment) than Ana.
I think Nicole and Misa are equally talented. Both aren't very natural ball strikers I must say but both have worked very hard and Nicole has the edge because of her huge power.
I'm not sure about Pironkova. She's pretty quick around the court and her strokes appear to be good but she never goes for the lines and has a pretty weak serve.

donellcarey
Aug 6th, 2006, 02:40 AM
Ana
Most of Vasilisa's win are in ITF matches,so I think Ana's more talent

dizoo
Aug 6th, 2006, 03:39 AM
Krajicek is the most complete

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 6th, 2006, 04:07 AM
vasilisa bardina - haven't seen her play

i havent seen enough of them play enough to judge quite fairly, but i picked vaidisova because of her will power and ability to trouble top players.

krajicek has a solid game and mental toughness! she just needs to further solidfy her game if she wants to be a top player.

ivanovic has a lot of power and clean striking. she'll have to add more speed to her game and a bit more fire if she wants to become a top player like jennifer capriati (who she reminds me of)

pironkova also has a solid game, but needs more match experience and tennis knowledge if she wants to get further. improve those weaknesses and i wouldn't mind seeing her in the top 20.


golovin has a lot of talent but seems not as interested as some of the other players. at least she has pretty hair when she plays.

king haven't really see her play yet she is one of my favorite players ahhaha ....
....btw... is king full on asian??? why is her last name king?

DutchieGirl
Aug 6th, 2006, 06:19 AM
king haven't really see her play yet she is one of my favorite players ahhaha ....
....btw... is king full on asian??? why is her last name king?

She looks Asian, and I recall her Dad being darker (but that was at the AO, so I might not be right).

Derek.
Aug 6th, 2006, 06:28 AM
golovin has a lot of talent but seems not as interested as some of the other players. at least she has pretty hair when she plays.

:rolleyes:

serena_forever
Aug 6th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Tati :hearts:
Pironkova :bounce:

RR-87
Aug 6th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Vasilisa is the best :)

Gerben
Aug 6th, 2006, 09:03 PM
I wish I could agree on Misa being the most complete, but I'm afraid that's not true. She may be the most talented though, but that's hard to judge. How do you rate talent?

DutchieGirl
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:14 AM
I wish I could agree on Misa being the most complete, but I'm afraid that's not true. She may be the most talented though, but that's hard to judge. How do you rate talent?

I asked that before, and got no answer - talent is subjective. People look at talent in different ways.

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:21 AM
I asked that before, and got no answer - talent is subjective. People look at talent in different ways.

true dat

more powerful strokes or more fighting spirit is an example

DutchieGirl
Aug 7th, 2006, 05:23 AM
true dat

more powerful strokes or more fighting spirit is an example

Or more complte game (ie has a good forehand, backhand, volley etc)...there are so many ways you can quantify "talent". ;)

DevilishAttitude
Aug 7th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Bardina - Haven't see play although her results have been decent at ITF and US summer.

Vaidisova - Defintely will win a slam. Great groundies and serve and not too bad around the net. More talented than Maria but needs to get a hold of herself mentally.

Krajicek - OK, i've watched Misa twice this year... and I can safely say she is not going to be a top player. Her serve is one of the most over-rated shots on this board and her groundies are not very consisent and she's pretty poor movement wise. There's not really any part of her game I can praise.

Ivanovic - When I saw Ana late 2004-early 2005 I would have said she'd be winning slams now. But, it's not happened and now slams look far away. Her BH has lost a bit of it's edge and her movement is becoming an issue and she's also beginning to have some very inconsisent results. Will win a slam but not till around 2008 or at the latest 2010.

Pironkova - When Pironkova beat Venus she was ranked 94 in the rankings. 7 months later, she's ranked 87. Only 7 places up and she's actually dropped in the rankings from 2005. Another one of the over-rated teens on here. Her defensive game might have a few scalps now and there, but Top 50 is questionable let alone Top 20.

Golovin - The most consisent of all the teens gamewise but her results are a little see-saw now and again. The ankle injury kinda ruined her year and maybe put back plans to challenge for a slam. Needs work on not getting tight. I think she can win a slam, but I'm not sure she will.

King - Never seen her play but she's gained around 900 places in the ranks. She's kind of stopped going up since March so maybe she's already seen her limit but I'm sure that's not the case.

:)

dagamezbest
Aug 7th, 2006, 09:57 PM
Bardina is on court now in trouble with Vesnina, I dont think she would have had as many wins if she played better players on tour such as Elena.

dizoo
Aug 7th, 2006, 10:21 PM
I agree.

=]

most of people make a confusion with their fav as the best
i mean....most people here like IvanoPIG (fat and overated beautty) and Vaidisova.

i'd pick Krajicek coz i've seen her play and i think she has the most complete game

Rome
Aug 7th, 2006, 10:26 PM
I would have to say Vaidisova she has really got here game together and she is in the top 10. I think out of all the young ladies she is by far the best.

AnDyDog621
Aug 7th, 2006, 11:12 PM
She looks Asian, and I recall her Dad being darker (but that was at the AO, so I might not be right).

King is not common Asian last name, but i do have a few friends who last names are King and they are all Chinese just like Vania

DutchieGirl
Aug 8th, 2006, 05:08 AM
King is not common Asian last name, but i do have a few friends who last names are King and they are all Chinese just like Vania

:eek: No Shit!

Where did I say it was?

AnDyDog621
Aug 8th, 2006, 05:16 AM
:eek: No Shit!

Where did I say it was?

Haha, sorry, i was replying to the person you were replying to.

DutchieGirl
Aug 8th, 2006, 05:25 AM
Haha, sorry, i was replying to the person you were replying to.

err well, you quoted me! :p

Experimentee
Aug 8th, 2006, 03:01 PM
I believe Vania King is of Taiwanese descent. I saw her mother at the AO and she definitely looked Asian. Havent seen her father.

Experimentee
Aug 8th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Vasilisa Bardina - havent seen her play, but from her results although shes done decently in ITFs, she hasnt been past the 2nd round of a WTA event and hasnt had any really impressive wins yet. I dont think shes going to win a Slam or do anything major.

Nicole Vaidisova - i think shes the most talented, got huge weapons off both sides and big serve, has already shown she can beat top players on the big stage. Reached SF of RG on her worst surface. She just needs to get more consistent and she could win a few Slams.

Michaella Krajicek - Shes pretty talented, but not as good as what shes hyped up to be. Shes has a good serve and groundstrokes but needs to work on her fitness and is too inconsistent. She could be a top 20 player but nothing more IMO.

Ana Ivanovic - Shes got the talent to be a top 10 player and I thought she'd get there this year but has hardly made any progress. Shes got all the weapons and power but could work on her movement.

Tsvetana Pironkova - not really enough big weapons to challenge for big titles. Shes done nothing except edge past Venus on an off day. I think she'll be top 50 but nothing more.

Tatiana Golovin - shes very consistent but not enough weapons to consistently challenge. I think she'll be a Myskina type player, who can hang around the top 10 and maybe win a Slam if shes lucky.

Vania King - shes consistent but doesnt have any weapons. I think top 30 will be enough for her unless she improves, but she still has time as shes only 17.

Martian KC
Aug 8th, 2006, 03:28 PM
vaidisova and talent doesn't go together at all.:haha:

petra martinnen
Aug 8th, 2006, 04:37 PM
Agniesjka Radwanska, Poland!!

SvetaPleaseWin.
Aug 8th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Nicole's the most talented with Ana a close second

Ksenia.
Aug 8th, 2006, 04:52 PM
Nicole. She's just 17 and she's number 9 in the world, she was in RG semis. She' most talented. And Ana is the second for me :)

furrykitten
Aug 8th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Nicole and Misa from the list :yeah:

Coffee&TV
Sep 6th, 2006, 05:25 PM
Ana then Tati

Darop.
Sep 6th, 2006, 05:40 PM
I don't understand why people get so transfixed by Ana's game. I love her, but she almost unanimously gets dubbed more talented than Nicole. Nicole is the single most talented player on tour. She hits the hardest, serves the most accurately and the hardest both first and second, volleys solidly, moves solidly and is solid mentally (she slips more than Justine, say, but she is solid.) Ana's second serve is a mess technically. She is very very talented, but it should not be clear that she is more talented than Nicole, just as it should not be clear that Nicole is more talented.

However, to say that Golovin has more raw talent than Nicole is literally laughable. I love Tatiana and she is very talented, but she doesn't have the potential to win 10+ majors. She just doesn't.

WHAT. THE. HELL.

Nicole has 0 consistency and how she made top 10 in my opinion is only due to lucky draws.

Ana is undoubtedly one of the best ball strikers the WTA has at the moment, and unlike Nicole she can keep her UEs under 50 per match.

And it's not because I like her that I say she's talented, it's because she's talented that I like her.

Gnaag
Sep 6th, 2006, 06:10 PM
WHAT. THE. HELL.

Nicole has 0 consistency and how she made top 10 in my opinion is only due to lucky draws.

Ana is undoubtedly one of the best ball strikers the WTA has at the moment, and unlike Nicole she can keep her UEs under 50 per match.

And it's not because I like her that I say she's talented, it's because she's talented that I like her.


Vaidisova is only in the top ten thanks to lucky draws? Since when is beating Mauresmo and Venus Williams back-to-back at Roland Garros a lucky draw? Sure, she could have faced a tougher back-to-back set (say, Clijsters and then Henin-Hardenne on clay), but she still beat two huge names.

Both Vaidisova and Ivanovic are inconsistent at the moment, but there is no question Ivanovic is more streaky, which has prevented her from winning big matches at the majors thus far. That's why Vaidisova is ahead of her in the rankings right now.

Having said that, both Vaidisova and Ivanovic should be top players once they put everything together and they have a lot more potential than Krajicek, Golovin, Kirilenko or any of the other youngsters in their age group.

LucasArg
Sep 6th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Vania King.

Darop.
Sep 6th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Vaidisova is only in the top ten thanks to lucky draws? Since when is beating Mauresmo and Venus Williams back-to-back at Roland Garros a lucky draw? Sure, she could have faced a tougher back-to-back set (say, Clijsters and then Henin-Hardenne on clay), but she still beat two huge names.



Uhm... beating Venus and Amèlie at RG is easier than beating Serra Zanetti and Pin back to back.