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Volcana
Aug 4th, 2006, 09:11 PM
This is a private message I got from Lord Nelson. It seemed worthy of a thread.
I would rather have a Christian Taliban nation than a Muslim Taliban nation.
I'm not interested in living in any kind of religious dictatorship. A Christian Taliban nation is every bit as bad as a Muslim Taliban nation.


I am a firm supporter fo the U.S. and by the way the U.S. supports Israel as a Jewish state. You really think they want it to be more Muslim? :eek:I think Israelis want to live in peace, in a unified political entity with more or less the current boundaries. I'm sure they'd like it to be a Jewish state. However, the choice may come down to being a Jewish state, but endlessly at war, vs being a secular state with a Jewish plurality.

Israel has a right to exist.
Palestinians have a right to return to their homes.

If the one right doesn't exist, there's no case for the other. That doesn't mean that there's no other way out of the problem except a single state, but there's no way out at all if the rights of ALL parties are not at least acknowledged.

The_Pov
Aug 4th, 2006, 09:18 PM
Isn't the point of a private message to be just that...Private!!!

JustineTime
Aug 4th, 2006, 09:35 PM
This is a private message I got from Lord Nelson. It seemed worthy of a thread.

I'm not interested in living in any kind of religious dictatorship. A Christian Taliban nation is every bit as bad as a Muslim Taliban nation.


I think Israelis want to live in peace, in a unified political entity with more or less the current boundaries. I'm sure they'd like it to be a Jewish state. However, the choice may come down to being a Jewish state, but endlessly at war, vs being a secular state with a Jewish plurality.

Israel has a right to exist.
Palestinians have a right to return to their homes.

If the one right doesn't exist, there's no case for the other. That doesn't mean that there's no other way out of the problem except a single state, but there's no way out at all if the rights of ALL parties are not at least acknowledged.

Arabs are free to live in Israel. The converse isn't generally true. I think that was LN's private point. I don't want to live in ANY kind of theocracy (that's just a slam liberals try to stick to Christians in yet another attempt to marginalize them :rolleyes: ), but LN's point, I think, is very valid.

But don't worry, Volcana. I think you've insured yourself against any future PM's from his Lordship! :yeah: :tape:

:lol:

Lord Nelson
Aug 4th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Arabs are free to live in Israel. The converse isn't generally true. I think that was LN's private point. I don't want to live in ANY kind of theocracy (that's just a slam liberals try to stick to Christians in yet another attempt to marginalize them :rolleyes: ), but LN's point, I think, is very valid.

But don't worry, Volcana. I think you've insured yourself against any future PM's from his Lordship! :yeah: :tape:

:lol:
Call me Lord my dear Justinetime, call me Lord. And Volcana call me Nelson. :fiery:

HAHA just kidding. Volcana wanted to create a thread on what I said so be it. Marketing thought does not seem to be her fort. She could have done it in a more attractive way. People may think that she created this thread because she has a thing against me. ;)

Anyway what I was trying to say is that Christian conservatives are no way as bad as islamic fundementalists. I can add that Buddhist conservatives like the Dalai Lama are like Christians. So for all of you who are into the free tibet movement remember that Dalai Lama is a religious conservative and as you can see 'Buddhism Talibanism' is no way as bad as the Taliban. Samething goes with Christian conservatism. Buddhists, Christians, Jews can listen to music and women are far better treated then under the Taliban.

The bottom line here is under Buddhism, Christianity etc.. the state is separate from the church. Because these religions don't bind everything together like the Taliban religion. So a Chrisitian Taliban state cannot exist and even if it did it cannot possibly be as bad as the Taliban.

Volcana
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:04 AM
Isn't the point of a private message to be just that...Private!!!All a private guarantees is that the sender is sending the message is only sending it to one person. What the receiver does with it after that is the receiver's protocol.
Anyway what I was trying to say is that Christian conservatives are no way as bad as islamic fundementalists.Tell it to Timothy McVeigh. Or maybe the Branch Davidians. Hell, tell it to Bush. He's killed more people than any 'islamic fundementalist' I ever heard of. And he at least claims to be a 'Christian conservative'.
The bottom line here is under Buddhism, Christianity etc.. the state is separate from the church. Because these religions don't bind everything together like the Taliban religion. So a Chrisitian Taliban state cannot exist and even if it did it cannot possibly be as bad as the Taliban.Have you actually paid any attention to how the Bush administration actually runs the government? Seperation of church and state? Riiiiight.

I have a feeling you actually might have heard of Mikey Weinstein, and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (http://www.mrff.blogspot.com/). Or maybe, on a milder note, the Office of Faith Based Initiatives (http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/).
and even if it did it cannot possibly be as bad as the Taliban.It would be far worse, having access to far more destructive weapons.

Sam L
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:31 AM
Sorry but I thought Israel is a secular state. As far as I know Judaism isn't forced down the throats of those who live there?

Israel has a right to say to terrorists you can't live in Israel. Simple as that.

Volcana
Aug 5th, 2006, 03:57 AM
Sorry but I thought Israel is a secular state.Really. Every prime Minister they've ever had called Israel a 'Jewish' state. And non-Jews have neither the same rights nor obligations as Jews in Israel.
As far as I know Judaism isn't forced down the throats of those who live there?Jews live in Iran, and no one forces Islam down their throats. What does that have to do with it?
Israel has a right to say to terrorists you can't live in Israel. Simple as that.Fine with me. But the millions of refugees from what is now Israel, and their descendants, those who are NOT terrorists, have a right to return to their homes. Simple as that.

Sam L
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:24 AM
Jews live in Iran, and no one forces Islam down their throats. What does that have to do with it?


You are so blind. There's no use arguing with you. If you care so much why don't you go and be a human shield or something?

You claim to be an expert but you come off as a liberal brain washed clone.

Volcana
Aug 5th, 2006, 04:38 AM
You are so blind. There's no use arguing with you.You, OTOH, thought Isreal was a secular state. You're right. You gain nothing by arguing with me.
If you care so much why don't you go and be a human shield or something?I live near a military base. So I am one.
You claim to be an expert but you come off as a liberal brain washed clone.I don't claim to be an expert, just somebody who's studied the history of the Middle East for a couple of decades. And somebody who doesn't have a dog in this fight. As for being a 'liberal brain washed clone', it doesn't matter.

a) Millions of refugees from what is now Israel, and their descendants, those who are NOT terrorists, have a right to return to their homes.

b) Israel has a right to exist.

Those two rights are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

JustineTime
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by Lord Nelson
Anyway what I was trying to say is that Christian conservatives are no way as bad as islamic fundementalists.

Tell it to Timothy McVeigh. Or maybe the Branch Davidians. Hell, tell it to Bush. He's killed more people than any 'islamic fundementalist' I ever heard of. And he at least claims to be a 'Christian conservative'.

Timothy McVeigh(a wack job if ever there was one)=Branch Davidians(who so far as I know never killed ANYONE, yet were incinerated en masse by the federal government under Clinton)=George Bush(who, like it or not, did all his "killing" with Congress'[Republican AND Democrat alike] support)=<9/11 terrorists who killed 3000+ innocent Americans at a blow.

A new twist on moral equivalence: [i]IMMORAL equivalence!

Volcana, you are insane.

Volcana
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:10 AM
Volcana, you are insane.People have been saying that my entire life. And yet those same people trust me with their children. Go figure.

JustineTime
Aug 5th, 2006, 05:17 AM
People have been saying that my entire life. And yet those same people trust me with their children. Go figure.

Considering the current definition/perception of teacher/student relations, that's hardly a compelling argument. :tape:

Lord Nelson
Aug 5th, 2006, 12:52 PM
People have been saying that my entire life. And yet those same people trust me with their children. Go figure.
Ah ok, now I see with whom I am dealing with now. A little insanity is ok if it can be used in a constructive way I guess. Hope everything is going well in your life....

Anyway concerning the Palestinian refugees, the arab nations where they live have refused to see them integrate with the general population. Other arabs are allowed to be citizens of that country but not the Palestinians because most of the arab governments believe in a right to return for all refugees. But what about the Jewish and Christian refugees from these arab nations who now live in Europe, Israel, U.S. etc..? They are allowed to integrate in their adopted countries in U.S. and Europe. So the Palestinian refugees should realize that their 'new' homes are in the countries they live in. According to the UN, only the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza should form an independant Palestinian state. Some of these refugees can come back to an independant Palestine but not to Israel. If an independant state arises by a miracle the Jewish settlers will certainly leave this country and go back to Israel. So Israel could then also send some of its Arab inhabitants to Palestine.

The irony is Palestine could have become an independant nation a long time ago like nations as diverse as Bosnia, Ukraine, Erithea etc... But there has been so much of a culture clash ebtween Jews and Arabs that this has not happened and I am not sure if it ever will.