PDA

View Full Version : Honestly? Who is the most complete player?


QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:07 PM
I'm not asking asking who is the best player out there, rather I'm asking who has all these skills to be the best???

Power
Placement
Volley
Movement/Footwork
Serve
Spins/Slices


I think its gonna be Amelie Mauresmo. This girl just does'nt know how to put them all together and I hope winning 2 slams recently would make her realize that. One more player that comes to mind at her peak is Liza Raymond.

I would love to say Hingis but she lacks power.

Dasha_
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:11 PM
I also think it is Amelie Mauresmo.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:12 PM
Please, I want replies to be well supported.

Lindsay is my fave but I know for a fact that she is not a good mover on court but the best ball striker IMO.

No its my favorite replies please.

Becool
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:16 PM
I would go with Amelie too, Amelie and Justine

tenn_ace
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:17 PM
Amelie, JHH and Sveta

Ballbasher
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:17 PM
Justine also lacks power I think :confused:

alextim
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:19 PM
amélie ... she's an incredible athlete

crazyroberto6767
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:20 PM
Judging by those categories, I'd go with Amelie. Her forehand isn't quite the liability on a consistent basis that it used to be & none of those categories really address it.

Also, Sveta. Although sometimes her head makes her "overextend" her talent :tape:. But she's got power, placement, good volleys, solid movement, an underrated serve, & tons of top and a nice slice.

If you're going by peak form, Serena of course has to be brought up. Her slice is underrated, and that's the only category I think that could be debated about her.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:22 PM
I would go with Amelie too, Amelie and Justine

Justine is a complete player, yes! but why is she effective only on slow courts? She can still be over powered thats the reason. I would put Venus rather next to amelie only Venus tends to use her power everytime and not rely on her techniques. You would notice it by Venus always using a swinging power volley instead of a well placed volley.

But as I have said before, I really think Liza Raymond also has it, though she has no singles results to back it up with.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:26 PM
Judging by those categories, I'd go with Amelie. Her forehand isn't quite the liability on a consistent basis that it used to be & none of those categories really address it.

Also, Sveta. Although sometimes her head makes her "overextend" her talent :tape:. But she's got power, placement, good volleys, solid movement, an underrated serve, & tons of top and a nice slice.

If you're going by peak form, Serena of course has to be brought up. Her slice is underrated, and that's the only category I think that could be debated about her.

Serena is like Lindsay( serve and strokes) with a movement, but I would put Lindsay to have a better net game than serena.

Serena lacks net game
Lindsay lacks movement

In my opinion its gonna be:

1.Amelie

2. Liza Raymond

3. Venus

Kart
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:28 PM
When I think of complete games I always think of Serena.

Although she's not the greatest volleyer I'll concede.

crazyroberto6767
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:28 PM
Serena is like Lindsay( serve and strokes) with a movement, but I would put Lindsay to have a better net game than serena.

Serena lacks net game
Lindsay lacks movement

Sometimes she gets lazy @ net, but her net game>Lindsay's movement IMO. Serena has good drive volleys, and is certainly no slouch @ the net. And Serena can come up with some ridiculous reach volleys when the time calls for it. Her backhand volley used to be very good too, with surprisingly good technique.

About Lisa, I haven't seen singles matches of her @ her peak, but was she ever the fleetest of foot? She has solid footwork, but I don't know about foot speed. I obviously could be very wrong :p.

LH2HBH
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:34 PM
I am thinking about Serena Williams here. Think about her at her peak in 2002.

She had so many levels that she could go to. I know she really relied a lot on Serve and on Power but she still had a great volley (both the Swinging Volley and the Classic).

My tickmark list for Serena

xxxx Power
xx Placement
xx Volley
xxx Movement/Footwork
xxxx Serve
x Spins/Slices

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:35 PM
Sometimes she gets lazy @ net, but her net game>Lindsay's movement. Serena has very good drive volleys, and is certainly no slouch @ the net. And Serena can come up with some ridiculous reach volleys when the time calls for it. Her backhand volley used to be very good too, with surprisingly good technique.

About Lisa, I haven't seen singles matches of her @ her peak, but was she ever the fleetest of foot? She has solid footwork, but I don't know about foot speed. I obviously could be very wrong :p.

Same thing with Lindsay, she lacks speed by a mile but her footwork is superb and that where her ball striking ability is comming from, right balance and footwork. Plus, even if she is slow, her court coverage is not a slouch either considering her height and reach.

Going back to the subject, I would really not put Serena and Lindsay as a complete player compare to others.

As for Lisa Raymond, she has a superb serve, superb volleys, super slices, superb placement, superb footwork and its still a complete puzzle why she did'nt made it big time in singles.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:37 PM
I am thinking about Serena Williams here. Think about her at her peak in 2002.

She had so many levels that she could go to. I know she really relied a lot on Serve and on Power but she still had a great volley (both the Swinging Volley and the Classic).

My tickmark list for Serena

xxxx Power
xx Placement
xx Volley
xxx Movement/Footwork
xxxx Serve
x Spins/Slices

I agree with your trickmark for Serena

But come to think of it, can you come up with a trick mark for Amelie Mauresmo lower than those? maybe on power only.

crazillo
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:39 PM
Well, complete players are players like Maleeva and Martinez were i.e. Also Graf, for sure.

Another one that strikes my mind is Katerina Srebotnik.

But at No. 1 I see Justine or Amelie...

franny
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:47 PM
Um hello! Sharapova! No just kidding, please don't shoot me.

My real answer is either Amelie or Justine. Amelie to me can play the best on all surfaces. If Roland Garros were not in France, she would have a great chance to win the clay slam. She really can play well on all surfaces, and have challenged someone like Serena both on slow courts and on fast courts. If Hingis had more power, she'd be the most complete. She's got 4 or 5 out of 5s for everything except power. Oh and the serve. I think we should add "mind" to the list too. It's a very important component of tennis.

Derek.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:52 PM
Schnyder is also very complete.

iPatty
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:54 PM
hantuchova has the potential to be one of the most complete players. i don't think she is right now, but it could be possible, don't you think?

i think amelie is the most complete player, followed by patty and justine.

Brooklyn90
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:58 PM
1-serena
2-amelie
3-justine

Dunlop1
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:58 PM
I'm not asking asking who is the best player out there, rather I'm asking who has all these skills to be the best???.

Justine Amelie Hingis Serena Clijsters
Power 9 8 7 10 8
Placement 9 8 9 8 8
Volley 8 9 8 6 6
Movement/Footwork 8 8 8 8* 10
Serve 7 7 6 9 7
Spins/Slices 9 10 8 6 5
-- -- -- -- --
50 50 46 47 44


* I would have given Serena a 10 in this category because her footspeed/movement is incredible but her footwork leaves a lot to be desired.


So I say a tie btw Justine and Amelie in terms on completeness of player.

Sund7101
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:00 PM
Serena is the most complete player hands down.

spencercarlos
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:04 PM
Hantuchova :p

spencercarlos
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:08 PM
Davenport Serena Venus Amelie Henin Hingis Petrova Kim Pierce..
in no particular order all of them capable of doing well on any surface very complete indeed.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:35 PM
Justine Amelie Hingis Serena Clijsters
Power 9 8 7 10 8
Placement 9 8 9 8 8
Volley 8 9 8 6 6
Movement/Footwork 8 8 8 8* 10
Serve 7 7 6 9 7
Spins/Slices 9 10 8 6 5
-- -- -- -- --
50 50 46 47 44


* I would have given Serena a 10 in this category because her footspeed/movement is incredible but her footwork leaves a lot to be desired.


So I say a tie btw Justine and Amelie in terms on completeness of player.

I would only put Justine higher than Amelie if we are talking about Clay. Justine power a 9?? Thats make sense that wimbledon is still missing in her resume.

Uranus
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:37 PM
Justine Henin-Hardenne.

shap_half
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM
Justine. Having absolutely no weakness in her game makes her the obvious answer to the question. Her serve is among the strongest -- especially her second serve. As of late she's developed her return into a weapon (possibly the most underrated weapon in the game). Her combination of footspeed and footwork is unmatched. Her backhand is a work of art -- a brilliant amalgamation of finesse, power, accuracy, and variety. Her forehand can create angles and winners. Her volley is fantastic -- best at catching low balls.

IceHock
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM
Amelie is good at every single one of those,so it goes to her.

shap_half
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:42 PM
I would only put Justine higher than Amelie if we are talking about Clay. Justine power a 9?? Thats make sense that wimbledon is still missing in her resume.

Justine made it to 2 Wimbledon finals without using the same type of power that won Venus, Serena, Lindsay, and Maria their Wimbledons. Justine is not going to win Wimbledon with power, but with an aggressive display of all court tennis. That's what won Amelie hers.

Reuchlin
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:43 PM
Justine hands down. Amelie's forehand is very weak.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:44 PM
Justine. Having absolutely no weakness in her game makes her the obvious answer to the question. Her serve is among the strongest -- especially her second serve. As of late she's developed her return into a weapon (possibly the most underrated weapon in the game). Her combination of footspeed and footwork is unmatched. Her backhand is a work of art -- a brilliant amalgamation of finesse, power, accuracy, and variety. Her forehand can create angles and winners. Her volley is fantastic -- best at catching low balls.

I said no favorites replies!!
I'm sure she is up there, but compare to mauresmo??
And why does the williams sister always tend to over power her? She got no power believed me, she can only do it on slow surfaces whereas amelie can do it on every surface.

Reuchlin
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:45 PM
hantuchova has the potential to be one of the most complete players. i don't think she is right now, but it could be possible, don't you think?

i think amelie is the most complete player, followed by patty and justine.

Patty most complete player :help: :help: :help: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Reuchlin
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:46 PM
I said no favorites replies!!
I'm sure she is up there, but compare to mauresmo??
And why does the williams sister always tend to over power her? She got no power believed me, she can only do it on slow surfaces whereas amelie can do it on every surface.

Amelie, despite having muscles, does not hit the ball as hard as Justine. It's a fact.

Derek.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:46 PM
Patty most complete player :help: :help: :help: :haha: :haha: :haha:

She has a very complete game. If you don't see this, then I kind of feel sorry for you. :wavey:

shap_half
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:49 PM
I said no favorites replies!!
I'm sure she is up there, but compare to mauresmo??
And why does the williams sister always tend to over power her? She got no power believed me, she can only do it on slow surfaces whereas amelie can do it on every surface.

Are you kidding me with this? Watch the 2004 IW final, you'll see the completeness that is Justine's game.
And are the Williams sisters the only two players in the world? What about Jennifer Capriati and Monica Seles? Two players who Justine have beaten on hardcourts and grass courts (sure Seles isn't really a huge threat on the surface, but her power is still there). On grass Justine beat both of them before she bulked up.
Lindsay Davenport and Maria Sharapova? Two players who Justine have beaten on hardcourts.

Justine is my favorite precisely because I think her game is the most complete one of all.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:49 PM
Justine made it to 2 Wimbledon finals without using the same type of power that won Venus, Serena, Lindsay, and Maria their Wimbledons. Justine is not going to win Wimbledon with power, but with an aggressive display of all court tennis. That's what won Amelie hers.

You said it yourself, Amelie won it already and Justine is only in finals.
This is not even a battle between who is the better player, rather who is a more complete player? Amelie can do more variety and how many time justines been over powered by the real power players.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:51 PM
Are you kidding me with this? Watch the 2004 IW final, you'll see the completeness that is Justine's game.
And are the Williams sisters the only two players in the world? What about Jennifer Capriati and Monica Seles? Two players who Justine have beaten on hardcourts and grass courts (sure Seles isn't really a huge threat on the surface, but her power is still there). On grass Justine beat both of them before she bulked up.
Lindsay Davenport and Maria Sharapova? Two players who Justine have beaten on hardcourts.

Justine is my favorite precisely because I think her game is the most complete one of all.

i never questioned justine all complete game but what I'm saying is compare to Amelie Mauresmo?? be realistic!!!

spencercarlos
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:53 PM
She has a very complete game. If you don't see this, then I kind of feel sorry for you. :wavey:
Patty is a complete player, tecnically.
But she is yet to be sucessful on grass.
Normally a complete player is able to adapt its game to be good on any surface.
So neither Patty or Hantuchova are complete players, at least to my thinking. Patty has not been able to deliver great results on grass the same way that Hantuchova has not been able to excel on clay.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:55 PM
Amelie, despite having muscles, does not hit the ball as hard as Justine. It's a fact.

Exactly! she has the muscle to do power play but she got other weapons too that made her the most complete player so she tends to have alot of choices that make her thinking/strategy on court really bad.

Uranus
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:00 PM
I put Justine ahead of Amelie because I think her game is better and has maybe more variety too, more power also. On the mental side, they're pretty equal: Amelie is bad at RG, Justine was as bad during the Wimbly finals.

spencercarlos
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:02 PM
I put Justine ahead of Amelie because I think her game is better and has maybe more variety too, more power also. On the mental side, they're pretty equal: Amelie is bad at RG, Justine was as bad during the Wimbly finals.
Justine has reached all 4 grand slam finals IMO she should be ahead of Amelie

LH2HBH
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:07 PM
I agree with your trickmark for Serena

But come to think of it, can you come up with a trick mark for Amelie Mauresmo lower than those? maybe on power only.


Yeah I think Serena had a big edge over Amelie on serve.

She can hit hard flat serves in the 120's, she has a slice serve and one of the best kick serves in the business.

sfselesfan
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:08 PM
I agree with your trickmark for Serena

But come to think of it, can you come up with a trick mark for Amelie Mauresmo lower than those? maybe on power only.


I think Amelie is the best in all of these categories.

I think Serena deserves another couple of marks for spins...I think her spins complete her game. If you watch her shots, they are not as flat as say Lindsay or Venus. Spins are one of the assets she possesses. I agree her volley is inconsistent...but not terrible.

Nevertheless, Amelie wins this comparison hands down. She is an absolute all-court player.

SF

saki
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:11 PM
I think Amelie's hardcourt record speaks against her being an 'allcourt' player - she's definitely weak on that surface. Justine was unbeaten on hardcourt in 2003, even though she's generally weaker on it.

But.. my unbiased opinion is that Serena is more complete than anyone else. I just don't think she has a significant weakness. There's room for improvement, particularly on her volleys, but when she's fit and healthy, she's just plain amazing in all departments.

Derek.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:15 PM
Patty is a complete player, tecnically.
But she is yet to be sucessful on grass.
Normally a complete player is able to adapt its game to be good on any surface.
So neither Patty or Hantuchova are complete players, at least to my thinking. Patty has not been able to deliver great results on grass the same way that Hantuchova has not been able to excel on clay.

Based on what the thread starter said, with the list of skills, Patty is a complete player. No one mentioned surfaces.

SAEKeithSerena
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:21 PM
I am thinking about Serena Williams here. Think about her at her peak in 2002.

She had so many levels that she could go to. I know she really relied a lot on Serve and on Power but she still had a great volley (both the Swinging Volley and the Classic).

My tickmark list for Serena

xxxx Power
xx Placement
xx Volley
xxx Movement/Footwork
xxxx Serve
x Spins/Slices


i agree. best in the past 5 years? serena. best at the moment? amelie.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:25 PM
Based on what the thread starter said, with the list of skills, Patty is a complete player. No one mentioned surfaces.

I am the thread starter and I did'nt put surface because you should be able to do all those things on all surface to be a complete player.

Amelie is still my choice.

Dunlop1
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:50 PM
I would only put Justine higher than Amelie if we are talking about Clay. Justine power a 9?? Thats make sense that wimbledon is still missing in her resume.

Justine has plenty of pop on her forehand and backhand. When you then factor in her minute stature it makes it all the more impressive. She puts every ounce of her body into her shots. Just because she doesn't hit flat balls all day like 99% of the WTA doesn't mean she doesn't have power.
She hits heavy balls and more importantly is consistent doing so!

And Justine has been in 2 wimbledon finals...
In any case power doesn't automatically equal a wimbledon title.

Dunlop1
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:51 PM
Justine. Having absolutely no weakness in her game makes her the obvious answer to the question. Her serve is among the strongest -- especially her second serve. As of late she's developed her return into a weapon (possibly the most underrated weapon in the game). Her combination of footspeed and footwork is unmatched. Her backhand is a work of art -- a brilliant amalgamation of finesse, power, accuracy, and variety. Her forehand can create angles and winners. Her volley is fantastic -- best at catching low balls.

:worship: :worship: :worship:
Couldn't have said it better.

Dunlop1
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:53 PM
Justine made it to 2 Wimbledon finals without using the same type of power that won Venus, Serena, Lindsay, and Maria their Wimbledons. Justine is not going to win Wimbledon with power, but with an aggressive display of all court tennis. That's what won Amelie hers.

:worship: :worship: AMEN!!

Mileen
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:55 PM
I said no favorites replies!!
I'm sure she is up there, but compare to mauresmo??
And why does the williams sister always tend to over power her? She got no power believed me, she can only do it on slow surfaces whereas amelie can do it on every surface.

But Justine is more talented than Amelie. It's as if you're saying: they are the same, except Amelie has more power, so Amelie is more complete. I disagree. Why for instance has Justine won their H2H, for one? Secondly, why are tennis experts so impressed by her? Why is she called, even by a Dutch commentator, a real phenom? Amelie is not a phenom. But Justine is.
Also, in your list of criteria you didn't put 'insight' or 'intelligence' :sad: . I understand you just put a few examples. But people are taking those criteria so litterly now. Also I think, among them some are more important than others. Maybe 'power', for instance, is a subordinate factor in determining who is the most complete player. I would think things like, indeed, insight, or anticipation, or reading someones gaim and playing with intelligence, combined with a huge amount of feeling for the ball (i.e. huge talent) resulting in difficult but beautiful dropshots :bounce: , would be the basis for someone to be the most complete player. So for me Justine is. It's a hard question, though. And like Pagliacci said :) Justine hits the ball harder than Mauresmo, that's a fact :). Justine wins on every surface, and your statement she can only do it on slow surfaces, that's not a fact :bounce: .

iPatty
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:56 PM
Patty most complete player :help: :help: :help: :haha: :haha: :haha:

yeah. that's what i said.

what a great post. :worship:

patty can do everthing on the tennis court. she has a great serve, great forehand, great movement, good backhand, good volleys, etc.

LegionArgentina
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:58 PM
Justine Henin has everything,very complete(power,talent) and she is a winner

Dunlop1
Aug 3rd, 2006, 11:07 PM
I think Amelie's hardcourt record speaks against her being an 'allcourt' player - she's definitely weak on that surface. Justine was unbeaten on hardcourt in 2003, even though she's generally weaker on it.

But.. my unbiased opinion is that Serena is more complete than anyone else. I just don't think she has a significant weakness. There's room for improvement, particularly on her volleys, but when she's fit and healthy, she's just plain amazing in all departments.

In terms of movement, power and serve Serena (of grandslam fame) is tops. However, her 'touch' shots are average.
Her volleys are very average. Her slice backhand is below average, drop shot is almost non-existent.
Her game is a power-game and it works for her, (when she's consistent). She can impose her game and not allow others to execute theirs.

However that doesn't make her game complete.

Patty Schnyder has a more complete game than Serena but is obviously not the better player.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 3rd, 2006, 11:11 PM
But Justine is more talented than Amelie. It's as if you're saying: they are the same, except Amelie has more power, so Amelie is more complete. I disagree. Why for instance has Justine won their H2H, for one? Secondly, why are tennis experts so impressed by her? Why is she called, even by a Dutch commentator, a real phenom? Amelie is not a phenom. But Justine is.
Also, in your list of criteria you didn't put 'insight' or 'intelligence' :sad: . I understand you just put a few examples. But people are taking those criteria so litterly now. Also I think, among them some are more important than others. Maybe 'power', for instance, is a subordinate factor in determining who is the most complete player. I would think things like, indeed, insight, or anticipation, or reading someones gaim and playing with intelligence, combined with a huge amount of feeling for the ball (i.e. huge talent) resulting in difficult but beautiful dropshots :bounce: , would be the basis for someone to be the most complete player. So for me Justine is. It's a hard question, though. And like Pagliacci said :) Justine hits the ball harder than Mauresmo, that's a fact :). Justine wins on every surface, and your statement she can only do it on slow surfaces, that's not a fact :bounce: .

There's no doubt Justine is the better player because she got better minds and fight better.

But as for talent, I dont think so!
Amelie has a raw talent that she does'nt even know how to put them all together in a match. Amelie used to choke on big matches except lately that she got more confidence in big matches.

Justine's abilities are not raw talent, rather acquired talent through training and hardwork ( which i admire). I dont think Justine has the natural ability to strike the ball hard as she does sometimes. Mostly her power comes from her opponent as she slug them back.

Scots Kim Fan
Aug 3rd, 2006, 11:49 PM
It's got to be Justine or Svetlana.

The only difference is Justine already knows when to make use of each of her talents and Kuzzie is still learning that I think.

I'm expecting big things of Svetlana one day! :D

Zauber
Aug 3rd, 2006, 11:51 PM
The player who wins the most.
The player who wins the big tournaments of course.
Obviously a game is played to win not to get style points.
I allways get annoyed by this kind of thinking.

Zauber
Aug 3rd, 2006, 11:52 PM
the one with a head
two hands
two arms
a tennis racket.

Dominic
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:24 AM
there is no way serena has good volleys. Id say justine or mauresmo.

Davenselesport
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:33 AM
Well you have to include nerves, which gives the slight edge to Justine... Amelie close behind. (I know she had big wins and such but don't think she will ever be as mentally tough as Justine, which decides it for me)

vejh
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Serena is a dominant player for sure, but not the most complete that is for sure sure.lol. Someone once posted somwhere on this board that a winner or a great player doesn't need to be complete, and that's the case with Serena. Her power, movement, and serves are enough to mask all weakness, significant or otherwise. Add to that her tremendous mental fortitude.

Can you imagine Mary Pierce with Serena's movement? Whew!

faste5683
Aug 4th, 2006, 10:37 AM
Exactly! she has the muscle to do power play but she got other weapons too that made her the most complete player so she tends to have alot of choices that make her thinking/strategy on court really bad.

It's not about muscle, it's about technique. Amelie can't hit with Justine's power because she hits the ball in a totally different way, i.e. more spin vs. Justine's driving through the ball. I'm not saying that Amelie's strokes are less effective by any means, but to suggest Justine lacks power is bordering on retard-land.

Justine, Amelie, Patty.

:wavey:

Mileen
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:35 PM
There's no doubt Justine is the better player because she got better minds and fight better.

But as for talent, I dont think so!
Amelie has a raw talent that she does'nt even know how to put them all together in a match. Amelie used to choke on big matches except lately that she got more confidence in big matches.

Justine's abilities are not raw talent, rather acquired talent through training and hardwork ( which i admire). I dont think Justine has the natural ability to strike the ball hard as she does sometimes. Mostly her power comes from her opponent as she slug them back.

No, not at all. Justine is pure talent. Talent of the first degree. She has a huge feeling for the ball - and that's talent. And I am not interested in striking the ball hard when we talk about talent. ;) :bounce:

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:44 PM
No, not at all. Justine is pure talent. Talent of the first degree. She has a huge feeling for the ball - and that's talent. And I am not interested in striking the ball hard when we talk about talent. ;) :bounce:

I did'nt say she is not talented. She is the better player!!!

All I'm saying is, hitting hard is not her natural talent rather an aquired talent, which made me believed that Mauresmo is a more complete player than her but MAuresmo has no weakness at all except her mind!

-GenEz.Williams
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:45 PM
Serena Williams is the most complete player in wtatour!!
power..placement..big serves..booming groundstrokes..!!
she´s the best..

Veenut
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE]Obviously a game is played to win not to get style points.

This is exactly my outlook. It doesn't matter how complete, beautiful, talented your game is if it is not winning you big matches. It's not rocket science to figure out that you maximize your strengths and exploit your opponent's weaknesses.

Great players don't have to be great at every shot in order to win matches. If you are effective with selected shots and they consistently win points for you why be bothered about the other shots you don't necessarily need to employ frequently.

I also find it annoying to compare game styles when it varies so much from player to player. I can never understand why a certain style should be considered better than another. To me its like comparing grips, or one handers to two handers. There are advantages and disadvatages and you choose which better enhance your game. The proof of what works best for you is how many big trophies you hold up in the end.

Obviously Serena possess all she needs to hold the big trophies on all surfaces. She has defeated all other playing styles, so called complete and talented alike therefore she is ahead in my book.

sfselesfan
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:34 PM
Amelie is more talented.

Justine is more lucky.

SF

DarkchildSwiss
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Elena D. if she had a better serve.

TonyP
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Your list leaves out the mental aspects of the game. What good does it do to have the skills you listed, if you choke away major matches or have your A plan not working and have no B plan to go to?

You could have all the skills on your list, but be playing on a windy day and if you don't compensate for the wind, an opponent who has fewer skills, but does know how to play in the wind, could beat you.

Probably the most athletic player I ever saw on the women's side was Evonne Goolagong, winner of seven slam singles titles. But she admitted her mind would wander during matches in the later part of her career and she would get beaten.

The mental part of the game is just as important as the physical or athletic side of it.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:31 PM
Your list leaves out the mental aspects of the game. What good does it do to have the skills you listed, if you choke away major matches or have your A plan not working and have no B plan to go to?

You could have all the skills on your list, but be playing on a windy day and if you don't compensate for the wind, an opponent who has fewer skills, but does know how to play in the wind, could beat you.

Probably the most athletic player I ever saw on the women's side was Evonne Goolagong, winner of seven slam singles titles. But she admitted her mind would wander during matches in the later part of her career and she would get beaten.

The mental part of the game is just as important as the physical or athletic side of it.

I am agreeing on everything you said.

However I created this topic, to see which player has the most complete tool to do it, but does'nt even realize her potential and that is Amelie Mauresmo.

Mental part is actually what Justine has and her natural talent is not even near as what Amelie could actually do.( Just my opinion so dont bash me). I admire Justine beacuse once again, she proves that talent is only good if you use it and maximize it. Justine dedication is the epitome of a professional athlete and that makes her a champion.

squig2k
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Id say Justine, even though I dont like her

GoClijsters
Aug 4th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Yes, I agree. Amélie is the most completed player. I watched the wimbledon final this afternoon again and I was astonished by her good serve and volley. So good volly: yes.
I agreed with some other people who said that she doesn't use all her muscles. I believe she can hit the ball harder, but let's face it. If I was her opponent and I saw such a ball like her coming right to my face, i would run! (and there's also the fact that i'm not a great tenniser :D)
Her serve? I don't think I have to mention that, great! she improved a lot with her serve. she can make aces on hard times.
Placement, yep, she's got it
movement, i never saw her falling over her own feet, so that's a A+
And she can make some beautiful shots with her slice. she use it a lot and they are mostly succesful!

Amélie 1 at this moment!!! Justine 2.
But .. Even if you are the most completed player, that doesn't mean that you're the best player of all. Serena is our living prove. She doesn't move well but she just overpower her opponent. And that also works!

Mileen
Aug 4th, 2006, 07:32 PM
I did'nt say she is not talented. She is the better player!!!

All I'm saying is, hitting hard is not her natural talent rather an aquired talent, which made me believed that Mauresmo is a more complete player than her but MAuresmo has no weakness at all except her mind!

Yeah, of course hitting the ball hard is not her natural tendency, I agree! :) But you said: "Justine's abilities are not raw talent", like in plural: abilities. But then still, your equation doesn't sound sound to me, because then in your view it would be: Amelie and Justine are equally complete players, since: Amelie has everything, but lacks a bit of mental strongness & Justine has everything, but lacks a bit of power. By the way, you were right in saying their H2H is 5-5! Thanks! On the other hand, in one of those matches Justine had to retire - we all know which one - due to a stomach ulcer. So I wouldn't really count that match. Anyway, their H2H is more or less equal. And also I wouldn't rate the talent of the girls the same. And again, power is a subordinate factor. Also Justine doesn't get overpowered. Thus, Justine still wins the equation! ;) :bounce:

LUIS9
Aug 4th, 2006, 08:20 PM
Elena D. if she had a better serve.

Her volleys are a bit questionable as is the case for about 65% of the wta tour and the modern game in general mens and womens tennis. So that alone does not make her the most complete player, her ground game is about as complete as it gets though.

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 4th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Yeah, of course hitting the ball hard is not her natural tendency, I agree! :) But you said: "Justine's abilities are not raw talent", like in plural: abilities. But then still, your equation doesn't sound sound to me, because then in your view it would be: Amelie and Justine are equally complete players, since: Amelie has everything, but lacks a bit of mental strongness & Justine has everything, but lacks a bit of power. By the way, you were right in saying their H2H is 5-5! Thanks! On the other hand, in one of those matches Justine had to retire - we all know which one - due to a stomach ulcer. So I wouldn't really count that match. Anyway, their H2H is more or less equal. And also I wouldn't rate the talent of the girls the same. And again, power is a subordinate factor. Also Justine doesn't get overpowered. Thus, Justine still wins the equation! ;) :bounce:

If you add mental toughness on the equation, Justine clearly wins!!!

Talent wise, Amelie wins!!!

Dunlop1
Aug 4th, 2006, 08:32 PM
[QUOTE=Zauber]


This is exactly my outlook. It doesn't matter how complete, beautiful, talented your game is if it is not winning you big matches. It's not rocket science to figure out that you maximize your strengths and exploit your opponent's weaknesses.

Great players don't have to be great at every shot in order to win matches. If you are effective with selected shots and they consistently win points for you why be bothered about the other shots you don't necessarily need to employ frequently.

I also find it annoying to compare game styles when it varies so much from player to player. I can never understand why a certain style should be considered better than another. To me its like comparing grips, or one handers to two handers. There are advantages and disadvatages and you choose which better enhance your game. The proof of what works best for you is how many big trophies you hold up in the end.

Obviously Serena possess all she needs to hold the big trophies on all surfaces. She has defeated all other playing styles, so called complete and talented alike therefore she is ahead in my book.

Some people need to read the thread title again. It says who is the most complete player.
It didn't say who is the most complete player that kicks the most ass on the wta tour :rolleyes:

In otherwords, your post (which is very correct) is unnecessary. Stop trying to make this about Serena. She is not a complete player, basta!

QUEENLINDSAY
Aug 4th, 2006, 08:34 PM
[QUOTE=Veenut]

Some people need to read the thread title again. It says who is the most complete player.
It didn't say who is the most complete player that kicks the most ass on the wta tour :rolleyes:

In otherwords, your post (which is very correct) is unnecessary. :devil:

:worship:

Justine Fan
Aug 4th, 2006, 08:38 PM
[QUOTE=Veenut]

Some people need to read the thread title again. It says who is the most complete player.
It didn't say who is the most complete player that kicks the most ass on the wta tour :rolleyes:

In otherwords, your post (which is very correct) is unnecessary. Stop trying to make this about Serena. She is not a complete player, basta!

:tape: :tape: :yeah:

Il Primo!
Aug 4th, 2006, 08:46 PM
JHH by a mile!!!!!!

I mean, her groundstrokes are awesome, her volleys are pretty good, her serve can be very efficient, her returns are tremendous, she runs well as hell.
She doesn't have a real werakness but her stamina (but this year it doesn't seem to be a problem)

cellophane
Mar 1st, 2007, 01:44 PM
Patty doesn't have the power so I don't think she is a complete player.

cellophane
Mar 1st, 2007, 01:50 PM
I don't really know how to rank the current top 10 though... but watching Nadia in Paris really showed to me that she is a complete player and can do anything. Well, almost. Even with her movement (which isn't that bad, but probably the only part that you could argue is missing for her to eb a really good player), her defense was brilliant. She didn't just hit with power. There is however the matter of her forehand, which she could flatten out.

Justine is easily the most complete player though.

Sharapova's_Boy
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:00 PM
Justine, easily.

Tie-Break
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:10 PM
You have to laugh at some of the replies on this board! :tape:

It's Justine for sure. 99.95% of the commentators and players when speaking about Justine comment that she is the only one on tour that has the most complete game ... I'd rather listen to them ... thanks for the entertainment though! :lol:

ico4498
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:11 PM
the most complete player by definition must be the most successful. silly to argue that player has all the skills but can't put them together.

if yah lack the ability to put it together, you're incomplete.

cellophane
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:17 PM
the most complete player by definition must be the most successful. silly to argue that player has all the skills but can't put them together.

if yah lack the ability to put it together, you're incomplete.

Success isn't a true measure of whether your game is complete or not. :shrug: You can be successful with a game that's not complete.

ico4498
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:26 PM
success is the ultimate reason for professional play. the skill set that yields the best results, by definition, is the most complete.

it achieves the objective.

thrust
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:29 PM
Justine, Amelie. When was the last time Justine was blown off a hard court? Did she not reach the Wimbledon finals last year and win Eastbourne on grass? She also beat Maria and Amelie in straight sets to gain the #1 ranking on an indoor court last November. She also beat Amelie on a hard court in Dubai this year in straight sets. Sure she did lose to Maria in straight sets at the USO final, but she was injured and, therefore, could not serve and hit as hard as usual.

miss molly
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:31 PM
Justine easily.
She plays well on all surfaces. She can play with power, efficience and finesse. She's the most complete.

Volcana
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:51 PM
I'm not asking asking who is the best player out there, rather I'm asking who has all these skills to be the best???


Serena. As Martina Hingis said of both WIlliams sisters, "I've warmed up with both of them and they have every shot". There's a difference between what you HAVE, and what you USE.

Virtually the only deficiency in Serena's game, based on your list, is that her slice isn't disguised. You know what she's doing the moment she picks her racket up to head height. But the resulting shot has some serious backspin. As for the rest of that list, go look at the AO final, and then tell me Serena isn't at the top in Power, Placement, and Movement/Footwork. And she's had the best serve on tour for years.

Mauresmo may USE more of her tools in the course of the average match. She doesn't HAVE more tools. Henin is, in many ways, a smaller version of Serena. But, as in most sports, all other things being equal, size is often the deciding factor. Aside from that, Serena has a better second serve, more power, and in 2002-3 was faster.

Vamos.
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:52 PM
Amelie...no doubt!

Vamos.
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:57 PM
You have to laugh at some of the replies on this board! :tape:

It's Justine for sure. 99.95% of the commentators and players when speaking about Justine comment that she is the only one on tour that has the most complete game ... I'd rather listen to them ... thanks for the entertainment though! :lol:


You moose. Commentators say what they are paid to say; if Justine plays, she is suddenly "arguably the world number one", "such a beautiful player to watch", "a great volleyer" and "a complete player"...

Now switch over and those things are being said about Amelie Mauresmo.

Tool, you are too biased for your own good...:wavey:

lecciones
Mar 1st, 2007, 02:58 PM
I would say Hingis if she had Serena's power. I can't think right now, theres a terrible disruption in the force. As if a million voices crying out were suddenly silenced..... (heheheheh, agh can't laugh im sad..)

Mina Vagante
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:02 PM
amelie or justine

Tie-Break
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:16 PM
You moose. Commentators say what they are paid to say; if Justine plays, she is suddenly "arguably the world number one", "such a beautiful player to watch", "a great volleyer" and "a complete player"...

[QUOTE]Now switch over and those things are being said about Amelie Mauresmo.

Not by the likes of John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors they are not, but they do say it about Justine :worship: :worship: :ras:

Do you think I'm talking about Annabel Croft? :haha: I guess someone like you would :lol: :lol: :tape:

Tool, you are too biased for your own good...:wavey:

and you're not .... you sound like a broken record :zzz: you've posted the same thing in here at least twice :haha: :haha:

Go get a personality, you are mega boring :help: :wavey:

:inlove:
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:17 PM
Justine Henin.

LUIS9
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:17 PM
Judging by those categories, I'd go with Amelie. Her forehand isn't quite the liability on a consistent basis that it used to be & none of those categories really address it.

Also, Sveta. Although sometimes her head makes her "overextend" her talent :tape:. But she's got power, placement, good volleys, solid movement, an underrated serve, & tons of top and a nice slice.

If you're going by peak form, Serena of course has to be brought up. Her slice is underrated, and that's the only category I think that could be debated about her.

Her volleys are a bit suspect too. That's why I wouldn't give her the nod immediately. Then again she makes up for her rather unstellar volleys with her explosiveness and aggressive attitude when approaching the net. Her smashes are deadly and she has quick hands and very good reflexes, not quite like Agassi's the man has the best hand eye coordination of any tennis player bar none.

I would give the nod the Henin well then again something would tell me Mauresmo is a better candidate her volleys look so natural and classic. Her technique is so classic, it's beautiful to watch Mauresmo volley.

:inlove:
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:19 PM
Elena D. if she had a better serve.

Yeah, which makes her INcomplete. :tape:

athake
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:32 PM
winner speeds:

Justine Henin
US Open quarter-final, 2006

85 MPH forehand winner at 2-3 0-0, second set. Followed 103MPH serve and 77MPH return

[B]84MPH forehand winner at 3-2 40-40, second set. Followed a 82MPH serve and a 67MPH return .

[B]84MPH forehand winner at 1-3 40-40, second set. Followed a 82MPH serve and a 67MPH return .

[B]86MPH forehand return winner at 3-3 deuce, first set [Lindsay serving]. Followed 79 MPH serve.

76 MPH forehand winner after long rally at 3-3 deuce, first set [Lindsay serving]. Followed 85MPH serve [Lindsay] and 68MPH return.

77 MPH forehand winner at 3-3, first set. Followed at 88MPH serve [from Lindsay] and a return of 76 MPH

85 MPH backhand winner after long rally at 1-2, 15-0, first set [Justine serving].

75 MPH backhand winner at 0-0 40-15 [Lindsay serving], first set. Followed 75MPH serve [from Lindsay] and a
75MPH return [from Justine].


Lindsay Davenport's
groundstroke winners typically generally fall in the 60-75 MPH+ range.

a backhand winner measured at 70MPH (Davenport serving, 3-1 up in the second set)

a forehand winner measured at 73MPH (Davenport serving, 4-3 up in the second set)

a forehand winner measured at 60MPH (Davenport serving at 3-5 down in the first set)

a forehand winner measured at 68MPH (Davenport serving at 2-2 first set)

a forehand winner measured at 75MPH (Davenport serving at 1-1, advantage, first set)

a backhand winner measured at 62MPH after a long rally
(Davenport serving at 1-1, deuece, first set)

... are typical of Lindsay Davenport's groundstroke winners speeds, as recorded from 2004 onward.


Maria Sharapova
US Open final, 2006
a forehand winner measured at 82 MPH (Sharapova serving, 5-4, 30-15, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 81 MPH (Sharapova serving, 5-3, 15-0, second set)

a forehand winner measured at at 68 MPH (Sharapova serving, 2-2, 0-0, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 24 MPH (Sharapova serving at 1-2, 15-0, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 67 MPH (Sharapova serving 5-4, 30-15, first set)

a forehand winner measured at 51 MPH Sharapova serving
2-3, 15-0, first set)

a forehand winner measured at 22 MPH (Henin serving, 2-0, 30-40, first set)


{same match} Justine Henin:
a forehand winner measured at 75 MPH (Henin-Hardenne serving, 2-0, 0-0, first set)

a backhand measured at 73 MPH (Henin-Hardenne serving, 0-0, 30-40, first set)

a backhand winner measured at 78 MPH (Henin-Hardenne serving, 0-0, 15-15, first set)

(a noticeable dip in general groundstroke speed throughout the US Open final... )


* * * * * *
Serena Williams
US Open 3rd round match, 2006
(versus Ana Ivanovic)

a forehand winner measured at 72 MPH (Serena serving 4-3, 40-15, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 69 MPH (Serena serving 5-4, 15-0, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 75 MPH (Serena serving 0-1, 15-15, second set)

a backhand winner measured at 81 MPH (Serena serving 5-2, 15-15, first set)

a backhand winner measured at 80 MPH (Ivanovic serving, 2-4, 0-15, first set)

a forehand winner measured at 76 MPH (Serena serving, 3-2, 0-0, first set)

a forehand winner measured at 87 MPH (Ivanovic serving, 1-1, 0-30, first set)


Martina Hingis, US Open 2nd round match, 2006
(versus Virginie Razzano)

a backhand winner measured at 29 MPH (Razzano serving, 5-2, 0-15, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 65 MPH (Hingis serving, 5-2, 0-0, second set)

winner measured at 35 MPH (Hingis serving 1-5, 30-0, second set)

a backhand winner measured at 70 MPH (Razzano serving, 3-0, 0-0, second set) follows long rally

a forehand winner measured at 74 MPH (Razzano serving, 3-0, 0-15, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 78 MPH (Razzano serving, 0-1, 30-15, first set)

Hingis' groundstroke winners generally fall in the 60-70 MPH range, with some in the 50-60 MPH range.


* * * * * *
Venus Williams
1st round match, Wimbledon 2006
(versus Bethanie Mattek)

forehand winner measured at 72 MPH (Mattek serving 0-2, 15-15, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 79 MPH (Venus serving 1-0, 30-30, second set)

a backhand winner measured at 75 MPH Mattek serving at 0-0, 30-30, second set)

a forehand winner measured at 87 MPH (Venus serving 6-1, 40-15, first set)

a forehand winner measured at 84 MPH (Venus serving 5-1, 0-0, first set)

a forehand winner measured at 78 MPH (Mattek serving, 1-4, 0-0, first set)

Look here for the whole thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...=110933&page=3

Justine hits so hard because of her perfect technique not by muscle power like others

PS: Credits to rottweily for information

Mina Vagante
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:34 PM
PS: Credits to rottweily for information

:worship:

John.
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:34 PM
I would say Henin & Mauresmo are the most complete players

LUIS9
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:37 PM
I would love to say Hingis but obviously her serve is average at best but when factoring her second serve it really becomes a liability. Her volleys are amazing but at times she tends to be too casual and undecisive when volleying and she just gets in the mood of executing some ordinary volleys in the middle of the court which are devoured or passed with vengeance by her opponents.

Technique wise she used to have splendid technique on her volleys, her forehand volleys seem very rusty and inconsistent these days. Her backhand volleys are among the best, Mauresmo has better looking ones because she puts more punch and knifes her volleys a lot more. IF Hingis employed a bit more power to her game and really punched her volleys there would be no discussion who the most complete player would be. Tina' still has some very fine backhand drop volleys and her touch there is still splendid. :worship:

LefandePatty
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:46 PM
Justine Henin.

Craigy
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:47 PM
Justine.

A'DAM
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:54 PM
Justine Henin

cellophane
Mar 1st, 2007, 03:56 PM
success is the ultimate reason for professional play. the skill set that yields the best results, by definition, is the most complete.

it achieves the objective.

This isn't about who is most successful though. And, no, Maria won 2 slams whereas Kim won 1, yet Kim has the mroe complete game (well, neither of them are complete, but that's not the point).

winmic
Mar 1st, 2007, 05:35 PM
I'm not asking asking who is the best player out there, rather I'm asking who has all these skills to be the best???

Power
Placement
Volley
Movement/Footwork
Serve
Spins/Slices


I think its gonna be Amelie Mauresmo. This girl just does'nt know how to put them all together and I hope winning 2 slams recently would make her realize that. One more player that comes to mind at her peak is Liza Raymond.

I would love to say Hingis but she lacks power.
Justine, who else?

jazar
Mar 1st, 2007, 05:59 PM
Justine, who else?

precisely. she is the most complete playe by a mile

starin
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:06 PM
1. Hingis
2. Justine
3. Amelie
4. Kuznetsova

And serena somewhere in that mix. She doesn't get enough credit for the variety in her game. She hits the ball hard but she is not a mindless basher. Especially recently she has shown a lot more variety.

starin
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:07 PM
precisely. she is the most complete playe by a mile

i think hingis would give her a run for her money. Henin relies more on her power while Hingis relies heavily on her variety of shots.

fightserena!!!
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:11 PM
I definitely agree with whoever said that just cause someone doesn't USE all their shots, doesn't mean they don't have them. I think Serena Williams has an extaordinarily powerful game. Therefore the best way for her to win is to go out and blast her opponents. Hence most people think that's her whole game - but anyone who doubts she has the rest of the shots needs to go look at any of her numerous matches where she's returned from the brink of defeat. Yeah she's mentally in there fighting and that's a big part, but what also helps is that she pulls out a different game. She has shots and tactics that she usually doesn't bother with but when her power game ain't winning, she definitely has the shot-variety to get back in a match. Also both her and Venus make tremendous angles which is a category I think on its own that shoul be here. It's kinda covered in placement but I don't think that's adequate. Also, what about mentality/attitude. Another big part of the game. I think honestly Serena is discounted unfairly in this thread.

Barbarela
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:13 PM
Exactly! she has the muscle to do power play but she got other weapons too that made her the most complete player so she tends to have alot of choices that make her thinking/strategy on court really bad.

Interesting point!

hablo
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:24 PM
Amélie Mauresmo.

Natalicious
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:25 PM
Amélie Mauresmo.

second that :worship:

Craigy
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:34 PM
I would have said Amelie, but her forehand can be just...blah :lol: at times.

athake
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:36 PM
Amélie Mauresmo.

Amelie is the 2nd...

PS: u did not thank me for that word "bagelie" . U cant use it without my permission :)

Natalicious
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:36 PM
I would have said Amelie, but her forehand can be just...blah :lol: at times.

but her forehand worked very good in her last matches :D

SJW
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:48 PM
Ever since I saw her, I've always thought Mauresmo has been the most "complete" player.
Schnyder isn't too far behind.
Then Serena, Hingis and JHH IMO.

maja.amelie
Mar 1st, 2007, 06:49 PM
Amelie

lielabet7
Mar 1st, 2007, 07:16 PM
I think Justine is a very complete player. She has power, placement and her serve and volleying skills are excellant. She is also a very good mover.

Kim is also pretty complete. She has excellant footwork, power and placement. Her volleying is not bad and her serve is good when she is on. Her spins and slices are also good!

Sexysova
Mar 1st, 2007, 07:25 PM
Vaidisova is very young so she will be once the best with all skills :) :hearts:

Viktymise
Mar 1st, 2007, 07:27 PM
Justine or Amelie, but they can be overpowered

trocobob
Mar 1st, 2007, 07:37 PM
i think Amelie, Jand Sveta

kiwifan
Mar 1st, 2007, 07:46 PM
Yes, she is my favorite...

...but Venus is the prototype, size, speed, power...and when her second serve and forehand are working

...unbeatable. :smoke:

Bruno71
Mar 1st, 2007, 08:51 PM
The most complete player may not win every tournament or every GS on every surface. If one is the most complete player, they still may not be the best player on a particular surface, or the best at one particular aspect of the game. The question is, who has the most of everything. And I'd say that's Justine, with Amelie a close second...due to their superior net play, defense, and movement.

Vamos.
Mar 1st, 2007, 10:19 PM
[QUOTE=Not_Even_Amateur;10186788]You moose. Commentators say what they are paid to say; if Justine plays, she is suddenly "arguably the world number one", "such a beautiful player to watch", "a great volleyer" and "a complete player"...



Not by the likes of John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors they are not, but they do say it about Justine :worship: :worship: :ras:

Do you think I'm talking about Annabel Croft? :haha: I guess someone like you would :lol: :lol: :tape:



and you're not .... you sound like a broken record :zzz: you've posted the same thing in here at least twice :haha: :haha:

Go get a personality, you are mega boring :help: :wavey:

You are silly and immature and, as usual, completely miss the point...

biased tool.:kiss:

Beny
Mar 1st, 2007, 10:27 PM
Raymond? :shrug: nice net approaches but that`s all...

Sveta or Amelie..but I`ll go with Amelie.....some players can play slice..but Amelie`s slice is a weapon ;)
Amelie IMO

Krystell
Mar 1st, 2007, 10:33 PM
Justine is the most complete player, and she DOES have plenty of power. I would go with Amelie next, I vote Justine over Amelie because Amelie doesn't have the aggression or mental strength that Justine has and Justine can switch to hitting flatter groudstrokes which Mauresmo rarely does.

Krystell
Mar 1st, 2007, 10:34 PM
Justine or Amelie, but they can be overpowered

All of them can be overpowered.. depends on the player on the other side of the net and what kind of day both are having.

trufanjay
Mar 1st, 2007, 10:48 PM
Justine is the most complete player.

Mightymirza
Mar 1st, 2007, 10:51 PM
I would only put Justine higher than Amelie if we are talking about Clay. Justine power a 9?? Thats make sense that wimbledon is still missing in her resume.

Justine doesnt have a Wimbly and has 3 RG so far not cause she lacks power but because she isnt moving as well as shes on clay..She has 2 finals though..And Justine can definately overpower momo and most out there anyday(remember the masscres of one of the biggest hitter davy)..:rolleyes: What makes ame special is her variety esp off the BH..And the volleyes..:worship:

Junex
Mar 1st, 2007, 11:50 PM
Justine is a complete player, yes! but why is she effective only on slow courts? She can still be over powered thats the reason. I would put Venus rather next to amelie only Venus tends to use her power everytime and not rely on her techniques. You would notice it by Venus always using a swinging power volley instead of a well placed volley.

But as I have said before, I really think Liza Raymond also has it, though she has no singles results to back it up with.


It just amazes how, after all of Justine's achievements in Hard & Indoor courts, even Grass would still be reduced as a Slow court player....:confused:

-fact she beaten Amelie & Maria in Madrid YEC...i dnt think that is a slow court.
- She reached Wimbledon finals beating Clijsters along the way
- Her losses in fast courts of recent memory are to Petrova, Mauresmo, Safarova, Sharapova. I am not convince those loses can be remotely attributed to her being overpowered...

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 1st, 2007, 11:55 PM
It just amazes how, after all of Justine's achievements in Hard & Indoor courts, even Grass would still be reduced as a Slow court player....:confused:

-fact she beaten Amelie & Maria in Madrid YEC...i dnt think that is a slow court.
- She reached Wimbledon finals beating Clijsters along the way
- Her losses in fast courts of recent memory are to Petrova, Mauresmo, Safarova, Sharapova. I am not convince those loses can be remotely attributed to her being overpowered...

There's no denying that Justine is one hell of a complete player but still I would say that POWER IS NOT NATURAL ON HER! rather it's something she trying to cover up and make up with her variety and speed.

On the other hand, I would stick with Amelie Maruesmo. everything is natural.

jdyshrky
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:01 AM
It's quite clear that Serena is the most complete player. Simply because Amelie slices the ball and tickles it around the court doesn't make her any better or more complete a player, her movement is good but name any player in the top 10 that isn't a good mover. Her timing is also good but it needs to be for her shots. If we are talking about who is the most 'skilled' player then Martina wins in that department. I also think Patty is up there even though sometimes her tennis is gross. Okay, Amelie is complete bar all her shots, is that a settlement?

Tie-Break
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:10 AM
There's no denying that Justine is one hell of a complete player but still I would say that POWER IS NOT NATURAL ON HER! rather it's something she trying to cover up and make up with her variety and speed.

On the other hand, I would stick with Amelie Maruesmo. everything is natural.

Have you seen either of them playing live or have you just watched them on TV?

mm1147
Mar 2nd, 2007, 04:02 AM
amelie and justine is the most complete player. as for lindsay and serena yes they have great volleys but they cant really just change their power game into serve and volley,slice shot or drop shot and for them to win is really just to overpower the opponent

zvonarevarulz
Mar 2nd, 2007, 04:33 AM
Power:Venus or serena
Placement:Davenport or Sharapova
Volley:Hingis or Mauresmo
Movement:Clijsters or Dementieva
Serve:Venus,Serena,or Sharapova
Spins:Hingis,Henin,Or Mauresmo

UncleZeke
Mar 2nd, 2007, 05:26 AM
based on the six skills listed,
1) Justine
2) Amelie
3) Sveta

QUEENLINDSAY
Mar 2nd, 2007, 06:09 AM
Have you seen either of them playing live or have you just watched them on TV?

I've seen them play in person a lot of times and on TV too. By the way, why are you asking? I think you can actually look at a players ability more on TV because of replays and almost all angle view rather than seeing them in person.

améliemomo
Mar 2nd, 2007, 08:11 AM
Amélie yes but there are also henin,molik,kuzzy,petrova.

Tie-Break
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:04 AM
I've seen them play in person a lot of times and on TV too. By the way, why are you asking? I think you can actually look at a players ability more on TV because of replays and almost all angle view rather than seeing them in person.

I'm asking because when one sees a player live, one can see the power and natural ability more than when it's on TV.

So if you have seen them live as many times as you say you have (yeh right :lol: ), then I cannot understand how you can say Amelie is more of a complete player than Justine is, plus Amelie's shots are more natural than Justine's :scratch: . Either you sat right at the back and didn't really take notice, or you must have fallen asleep at either of their matches. :rolleyes:

You have your opinion though and it's only your opinion. All I know is though that watching Justine live is an experience. I've seen many, many tennis tournaments and many tennis players, but watching her is something different .... because it's so so natural.

So Disrespectful
Mar 2nd, 2007, 09:39 AM
If Hantuchova could improve her footwork, she would be in the mix. But as she can't, I'd say Amelie and Justine.

bandabou
Mar 2nd, 2007, 10:32 AM
Serena used to be the best in at least three of the categories: movement, serve, power...but now has lost a bit in the movement department. still has the best serve on tour, bar none.

But now, I guess Justine is the most complete. the funny thing is that it seems like she's more efficient against power-players, but struggles sometimes against momo..odd.

miss_molik
Mar 2nd, 2007, 11:16 AM
Justine

HenryMag.
Mar 2nd, 2007, 11:31 AM
Henin

Tennisaddict
Mar 2nd, 2007, 11:38 AM
Justine Henin and then Mauresmo then Serena.
I say Henin first because she can do more damage with her forehand than Mauresmo. I put Serena third because although she´s capable of all the six skills she doesn´t portray them as much. Maybe because she doesn´t need them or likes the baseline battle.

faste5683
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:06 PM
I said no favorites replies!!
I'm sure she is up there, but compare to mauresmo??
And why does the williams sister always tend to over power her? She got no power believed me, she can only do it on slow surfaces whereas amelie can do it on every surface.

lol.

:wavey:

faste5683
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:08 PM
There's no denying that Justine is one hell of a complete player but still I would say that POWER IS NOT NATURAL ON HER! rather it's something she trying to cover up and make up with her variety and speed.

On the other hand, I would stick with Amelie Maruesmo. everything is natural.

lol. Methinks you're fighting a losing battle...

:wavey:

Monica_Rules
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:21 PM
I'd say Mauresmo

Ntour
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:24 PM
anybody thats says mauresmo is more complete than justine is just :weirdo:

justine is better than mauresmo in every category bar volleying,

Uranus
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:27 PM
It's OBVIOUSLY Justine ;)

She can do anything Amelie does, and some of these things she does them better.

trufanjay
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:49 PM
I used to think that Justine had a bigger and better game than Mauresmo but that wasn't so obvious last year because Amelie got the best of her. But Justine and Amelie are the two most complete players on tour.

Stavie
Mar 2nd, 2007, 12:53 PM
Justine :worship:
and I think there's more to come from her,she will be getting better and better now