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View Full Version : Golovin 0-10 vs. Sharapova, Ivanovic, Vaidisova


mboyle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:20 PM
Does she deserve to be mentioned in the same category of up and coming players as those listed? Discuss.

Golovin vs. Sharapova
04 Birmingham F Sharapova 4-6; 6-2; 6-1
05 Birmingham SF Sharapova 7-5; 6-1
06 Miami SF Sharapova 6-3; 6-7; 4-3 ret. (with a break)

Golovin vs. Ivanovic
04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6
05 Rome R64 Ivanovic 6-3; 6-4
05 Zurich R32Ivanovic 6-4; 5-7; 7-5
05 Linz QF Ivanovic 7-5; 6-3

Golovin vs. Vaidisova
04 Tokyo R32 Vaidisova 6-4; 3-6; 6-4
05 Tokyo F Vaidisova 7-6; 3-2 ret. (with a break)
06 Fed Cup Vaidisova 6-1; 3-6; 11-9 (in France)

Ferosh
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:21 PM
Shut the hell up. None of those matches were blowouts.

MH0861
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:22 PM
Well, it's an interesting stat. I really thought she was finally putting it all together earlier this year before her ankle injury, and that has turned out to be a huge setback.

IceHock
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:22 PM
Should be 1-2 against sharapova.She would have beaten her at Miami,but it's not like any of those matches are terrible,they look all like quality showings.

Winnie
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:24 PM
Confrontation between people who are on the same generation,who have the habits to play together in juniors are always difficult.Golovin not show for the moment his capacity when she faced this girls,but her time is coming! :)

JS
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:28 PM
Confrontation between people who are on the same generation,who have the habits to play together in juniors are always difficult.Golovin not show for the moment his capacity when she faced this girls,but her time is coming! :)
I second that :)

Berlin_Calling
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:28 PM
Sharapova and Vaidisova are in a category by themselves. Tati and Ana are in the same category right below them.

mboyle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:30 PM
Should be 1-2 against sharapova.She would have beaten her at Miami,but it's not like any of those matches are terrible,they look all like quality showings.

Sharapova was up a break when Golovin rolled her ankle. I don't see the argument that Golovin would have won that match.

faboozadoo15
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:30 PM
Shut the hell up. None of those matches were blowouts.
gosh, stop being so defensive! this is a discussion board. this is a topic! sheesh!

Derek.
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:31 PM
Tati was close to beating all three of them. So I think she can still be mentioned with them. :wavey:

faboozadoo15
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:31 PM
Should be 1-2 against sharapova.She would have beaten her at Miami,but it's not like any of those matches are terrible,they look all like quality showings.
WHAT are you talking about? Maria was up a break in the third and deuce on her serve after hitting a winner.

It would be easier to argue that Maria should have pummeled her 6-3 6-1.

crazyroberto6767
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:31 PM
Sharapova was up a break when Golovin rolled her ankle. I don't see the argument that Golovin would have won that match.
But it really shouldn't be counted either way IMO. Because Sharapova was also up a bit in the second set too ;).

I agree with whoever said Tati was coming into her own @ the beginning of this year & the ankle injury set her back. She's just taking a little longer to mature, and those wins will come.

mboyle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:32 PM
Sharapova and Vaidisova are in a category by themselves. Tati and Ana are in the same category right below them.

Tatiana is the only one of those four who loses to players ranked outside the top 30. She lost to Frazier in straight sets. Ivanovic beat Frazier in straight sets. It is just interesting. Personally I really like Tatiana, but I just want an explanation for why her results have been so inconsistent, and why her bright spots haven't even been as bright as Nicole's or Ana's (or Maria's but that's not really fair because Maria is one of a kind.)

faboozadoo15
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:34 PM
Tati was up a break in the third set but that in no way insures a victory.
DOWN a break, which is damn close to losing.

The_Pov
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:34 PM
Sharapova and Vaidisova are in a category by themselves. Tati and Ana are in the same category right below them.

Exactly, none of the teens, are at the same level they are at, maybe in a few years time things will be different but right now Nicole and maria are in league of their own!

mboyle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:35 PM
I think what is really troubling to me is that, of these ten matches, seven went to three sets, and Tatiana lost all seven, one or two of which she had match points to win. We all know that the greatest factor to being a tennis champion is mental toughness and belief. The fact that Tatiana has lost 7 straight three set matches to the other top players of her generation shows, to me, that they have far better belief and mental toughness, neither of which can really be taught.

IceHock
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:37 PM
WHAT are you talking about? Maria was up a break in the third and deuce on her serve after hitting a winner.

It would be easier to argue that Maria should have pummeled her 6-3 6-1.


How is it easier to argue she should hae pummeled her,when they were in a third set???It was also a deuce game when Tati rolled her ankle,I still think she shoudl've won that match,if she wasn't injured.

Dexter
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:38 PM
Golovin vs. Ivanovic
04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6 First time when I saw my princess :drool: What a match it was! :bowdown:

Winnie
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:38 PM
I think what is really troubling to me is that, of these ten matches, seven went to three sets, and Tatiana lost all seven, one or two of which she had match points to win. We all know that the greatest factor to being a tennis champion is mental toughness and belief. The fact that Tatiana has lost 7 straight three set matches to the other top players of her generation shows, to me, that they have far better belief and mental toughness, neither of which can really be taught.
yeah,that's a point.

Berlin_Calling
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:39 PM
I think what is really troubling to me is that, of these ten matches, seven went to three sets, and Tatiana lost all seven, one or two of which she had match points to win. We all know that the greatest factor to being a tennis champion is mental toughness and belief. The fact that Tatiana has lost 7 straight three set matches to the other top players of her generation shows, to me, that they have far better belief and mental toughness, neither of which can really be taught.

Of course mental toughness can be taught! Look at players like Serena and Justine. They lost their fair share of close close losses against top players until Serena got that win against Monica Seles in Toronto, and Justine in Australia against Davenport. Now these two are the mentally toughest on the whole tour. Tati's win will come. She obviously has the potential. Just look at how close she has come to beating some top players like Amelie and Kim.

jacobruiz
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:44 PM
DOWN a break, which is damn close to losing.


Oops - I wrote it wrong!:lol: Yep - playing Maria, it is damn close to losing!

saki
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:45 PM
At the moment there are big gaps between all of them.

Maria - Wimbledon title, very consistent GS semi-finalist

Big gap

Nicole - One GS SF, beating Amelie & Venus, and has (lower tier) titles a plenty.

Big gap

Ana - no consistency or real GS breakthrough but challenges top players and has beaten Amelie (any other top 5 victories for her?)

Big gap

Tatiana - similar lack of consistency, no GS breakthrough, challenges top players but doesn't beat them.

I like Golovin the best of this group, followed by Ana, but the fact is that they are all at different stages of development and there is a real chance that Tatiana/Ana/Nicole will never catch up to Maria.

j_dementieva27
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:47 PM
sharapova was up a break, but tatiana rolled her ankle on break point to get it back to even at 4-4

we'll never know how that beautiful match really should have ended

but as for tatiana... look at these matches, it just shows that she isn't where these other players are... i think she would beat ivanovic in their current forms, and she pushed nikki ver hard after only a tournament or two back from the injury

golovin's immensely talented, but she struggles with injuries and closing out matches... that only improves with time, and she's still young!

SAEKeithSerena
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:49 PM
Shut the hell up. None of those matches were blowouts.


:worship: :worship: :worship:

densuprun
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:49 PM
From another thread:
Guys I honestly believe in Tatiana again. Schnyder is a real test for her, but I honestly think she can be top ten and maybe win a few slams.:eek:

Was that sarcasm?
Or was that an honest prediction but now you start doubting her?

Dunlop1
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:52 PM
I'm a big fan of Golovin.
That being said there are some kinks in her game that are keeping her where she is.
First is her serve. That serve motion where she rocks back twice leaves something to be desired. I'm of the opinion that the simpler (and quicker) the serve motion, the possibility of less going wrong.
Also she needs to get some more oomph on her serve. Vaidisova, Sharapova and Ivanovic get good pop on their serves. (Ivanovic's serve motion is fantastic!)

Second is her backhand. I'm not exactly sure, but it seems that she uses too much right hand on her 2 handed backhand. As a result she doesn't get good pop on her backhand. It looks muscled. She doesn't have a good cross court backhand as well.
It is not her strong side so she should be running around those more, which brings me to my third point.

Her forehand. This is her weapon but in a lot of matches I see she doesn't use it as such. Tati needs to be more aggressive with that forehand. Run around the backhand and hit that killer inside-out forehand.
Step into the baseline and take the ball on the rise. Don't get pushed back behind the baseline.
A lot of times, she lets back and doesn't attack as much, but she doesn't have the footspeed to play defensively.

hurricanejeanne
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:01 PM
Shut the hell up. None of those matches were blowouts.

I have to agree, not one of those matches were terribly lopsided. I'm sure Tatiana had a lot of chances in those matches.

I do believe that the ankle injury was a massive set back for her. She was very close to beating Kim and Amelie in the spring indoor tournaments before her match in Miami with Maria which she showed amazing fight in the second set. Tati has the talent and the game, she just hasn't completely figured out what works consistantly for her and what she should avoid doing. Once she finds her consistancy, she will do a lot better. She is probably going to be the late bloomer of this group of players.

faboozadoo15
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:04 PM
How is it easier to argue she should hae pummeled her,when they were in a third set???It was also a deuce game when Tati rolled her ankle,I still think she shoudl've won that match,if she wasn't injured.
sharapova was up 5-1 in the first, and should have won it there, but it didn't happen.

there's really NO argument that tati was GOING to win the third. she was down a break and deuce on maria's serve. and tati rolled her ankle while chasing a maria winner.

faboozadoo15
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:06 PM
sharapova was up a break, but tatiana rolled her ankle on break point to get it back to even at 4-4
she rolled her ankle chasing a sharapova winner. there goes that break point.

mboyle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:16 PM
From another thread:


Was that sarcasm?
Or was that an honest prediction but now you start doubting her?

No I really do believe that. I actually am just searching for theories as to why Golovin, despite being the same age as the other three, has done so much less. I mean I have my reasons, but can she catch up and why?

Volcana
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:16 PM
Does she deserve to be mentioned in the same category of up and coming players as those listed?Actually, none of those players are on the same level.

Vaidisova is a step below Sharapova.
Ivanovic is a step below Vaidisova.
Golovin is a step below Ivanovic.

I do think that, given health, Vaidisova will have more career accomplishments than Sharapova. But right now there's no comparison.

Il Primo!
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:28 PM
Should be 1-2 against sharapova.She would have beaten her at Miami,but it's not like any of those matches are terrible,they look all like quality showings.

Nonsense

Maria leads by 63 51 before losing the 2nd set
Maria leads by one break before Tati's injury

I don't get it, can you explain?

Havok
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:32 PM
All three of the other girls are more powerful than Golovin, so it's only normal that they beat her all those times. However, as someone did point out, not one of them were blowouts, so she can hang with them. She keeps on choking vs Ivanovic, and that will likely come to an end. We never know what would have happened in that epic Miami semis vs Sharapova. And losing 11-9 to Vaidisova in only her 5th match back after an injury (Nicole got to the semis of RG!) isn't anything to be ashamed about. Golovin lacks power, so it's obvious that it'll take her longer for her to come into her own, which she is doing as we speak.

Cp6uja
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:39 PM
Sharapova and Vaidisova are in a category by themselves. Tati and Ana are in the same category right below them.

Ana never lose match vs. Golovin, Vaidisova or Sharapova so far!
OK, she is still not "same" category like Sharapova (but have better posibilities to more improve than Masha in next period), but she is obviously not worse than Nikki, and sure is better than Tati last two seasons and right now (4:0 H2H is never fluke stats!).

Brooklyn90
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:41 PM
Nonsense

Maria leads by 63 51 before losing the 2nd set
Maria leads by one break before Tati's injury

I don't get it, can you explain?
i think it was that maria was losing momentum in that match, and tati was getting better and better, and was pressuring sharapova.

Mother_Marjorie
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:46 PM
Does she deserve to be mentioned in the same category of up and coming players as those listed? Discuss.

Golovin vs. Sharapova
04 Birmingham F Sharapova 4-6; 6-2; 6-1
05 Birmingham SF Sharapova 7-5; 6-1
06 Miami SF Sharapova 6-3; 6-7; 4-3 ret. (with a break)

Golovin vs. Ivanovic
04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6
05 Rome R64 Ivanovic 6-3; 6-4
05 Zurich R32Ivanovic 6-4; 5-7; 7-5
05 Linz QF Ivanovic 7-5; 6-3

Golovin vs. Vaidisova
04 Tokyo R32 Vaidisova 6-4; 3-6; 6-4
05 Tokyo F Vaidisova 7-6; 3-2 ret. (with a break)
06 Fed Cup Vaidisova 6-1; 3-6; 11-9 (in France)

You make valid points. Also consider that Golovin lost in the first rounds of the Australian Open and French Open, then lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 2006. She's never made it past a grand slam 4th round and her results at the grand slams this year are worse than any year she has played professional tennis.

She played the match of her career against Sharapova at the Nasdaq and still lost. If Golovin weren't so overweight and had better mobility, she wouldn't have rolled that ankle.

I think Golovin could possibly be the next Alex Stevenson, except Stevenson made it further in grand slam play at least once.

Mother_Marjorie
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:49 PM
Nonsense

Maria leads by 63 51 before losing the 2nd set
Maria leads by one break before Tati's injury

I don't get it, can you explain?

There is no explanation, really.

Its probably the closest Golovin will ever come to beating Sharapova in a WTA match in their career.

Il Primo!
Aug 2nd, 2006, 09:55 PM
There is no explanation, really.

Its probably the closest Golovin will ever come to beating Sharapova in a WTA match in their career.

OK , Tati COULD have beaten Maria but "SHOULD have beaten" was too much for me

willrock
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:24 PM
You make valid points. Also consider that Golovin lost in the first rounds of the Australian Open and French Open, then lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 2006. She's never made it past a grand slam 4th round and her results at the grand slams this year are worse than any year she has played professional tennis.

She played the match of her career against Sharapova at the Nasdaq and still lost. If Golovin weren't so overweight and had better mobility, she wouldn't have rolled that ankle.

I think Golovin could possibly be the next Alex Stevenson, except Stevenson made it further in grand slam play at least once.

THE BITCH HAS ARRIVED :lol:

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:29 PM
Does she deserve to be mentioned in the same category of up and coming players as those listed? Discuss.

Golovin vs. Sharapova
04 Birmingham F Sharapova 4-6; 6-2; 6-1
05 Birmingham SF Sharapova 7-5; 6-1
06 Miami SF Sharapova 6-3; 6-7; 4-3 ret. (with a break)

Golovin vs. Ivanovic
04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6
05 Rome R64 Ivanovic 6-3; 6-4
05 Zurich R32Ivanovic 6-4; 5-7; 7-5
05 Linz QF Ivanovic 7-5; 6-3

Golovin vs. Vaidisova
04 Tokyo R32 Vaidisova 6-4; 3-6; 6-4
05 Tokyo F Vaidisova 7-6; 3-2 ret. (with a break)
06 Fed Cup Vaidisova 6-1; 3-6; 11-9 (in France)

She surely deserves being mentioned in the same group... BTW Matt, why don't you stop trying to discredit Tati's succes creating these threads with your silly stats? :tape: Don't you have better things to do? :rolleyes:

new-york
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:41 PM
Sharapova sure made her place in the upper group.

Tati showed she can compete with them. She has tough matches against Vadisova & one ret. Not that one sided.
She showed she can compete with Ana. Zurich 04, i think she was leading 5-1 in the third and :shrug:.
Ana :worship:
I just hope she'll be back to her form of the part of the year where she three setted Kimiko, had a match point against Amélie, and fight like wow against Maria.

mboyle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:02 PM
She surely deserves being mentioned in the same group... BTW Matt, why don't you stop trying to discredit Tati's succes creating these threads with your silly stats? :tape: Don't you have better things to do? :rolleyes:

I love Tati lol. I just get frustrated when she loses matches to Nicole Pratt and Amy Frazier, and when she loses over 90% of tight three set matches she plays.

Craigy
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:13 PM
you are weirdly obsessed with young tennis girls :scared:

Geisha
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:23 PM
No I really do believe that. I actually am just searching for theories as to why Golovin, despite being the same age as the other three, has done so much less. I mean I have my reasons, but can she catch up and why?

Golovin is more talented that some of the other girls you mentioned. One, she hit a high earlier in the year and got injured. We need to give her some time to recollect herself to the form she was in before her injury. Two, there are many players who have experienced this sort of setback against the players they are supposed to be competing with.

Take Venus Williams for example. In 1998, people said she would start winning Majors, and I believe she did (and Serena), as well. But, she lost her first two meetings against Sanchez-Vicario, and her first three meetings against Davenport and Hingis. Then she found her stride against them.

yukon145
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:25 PM
You make valid points. Also consider that Golovin lost in the first rounds of the Australian Open and French Open, then lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 2006. She's never made it past a grand slam 4th round and her results at the grand slams this year are worse than any year she has played professional tennis.

She played the match of her career against Sharapova at the Nasdaq and still lost. If Golovin weren't so overweight and had better mobility, she wouldn't have rolled that ankle.

I think Golovin could possibly be the next Alex Stevenson, except Stevenson made it further in grand slam play at least once.

thats some of the biggest shit i've ever read on this board.

and mboyle, if you are a fan of Tati why would create a negative thread about her?

switz
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:07 AM
DOWN a break, which is damn close to losing.

yes and she was also damn closing to losing in the 2nd set when she was down a 5-1 ;)

Golovin's game has a lot of room for improvement. Most of those results had competitive scorelines.

Very few people would have talked about Tati as being better at present than any of those players to start with so this is a rather pointless thread.

IceHock
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:10 AM
You make valid points. Also consider that Golovin lost in the first rounds of the Australian Open and French Open, then lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 2006. She's never made it past a grand slam 4th round and her results at the grand slams this year are worse than any year she has played professional tennis.

She played the match of her career against Sharapova at the Nasdaq and still lost. If Golovin weren't so overweight and had better mobility, she wouldn't have rolled that ankle.

I think Golovin could possibly be the next Alex Stevenson, except Stevenson made it further in grand slam play at least once.

If you think Tatiana Golovin is overweight you either need glasses,or a better pair.Having better mobility has nothing to do with why she rolled her ankle,that's just wicked dumb to say.

faboozadoo15
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:16 AM
and mboyle, if you are a fan of Tati why would create a negative thread about her?
it's not a negative thread. it's objective. he wonders why she hasn't beaten any of the other top girls around her age group even once.

if i made a "why does maria struggle against kim, amelie, justine?" thread, i wouldn't be hatin' on her... for instance.

hingisGOAT
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:21 AM
i haven't bothered to read through this whole thread, however, golovin does not have anywhere near the amount of weapons as the other teenagers. :shrug: her results prove this :shrug: this should be obvious to anyone who watches tennis :)

Leo_DFP
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:33 AM
04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6
05 Zurich R32Ivanovic 6-4; 5-7; 7-5

:worship: :worship:

Cp6uja
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:40 AM
04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6
05 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 6-4; 5-7; 7-5

:worship: :worship:


That suggest to me:

04 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 7-5; 6-7; 7-6
05 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 6-4; 5-7; 7-5
06 Zurich R32 Ivanovic 5-3; 4-7; 7-4

:worship: :worship:

hablo
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:45 AM
Well 0-10 h2h seemed pretty bleak (thread title) till I saw the scoreline of those matches...
It only shows me that Tati, despite not being as powerful, has the weapons to hang with those girls and is due for a breakthrough sooner or later :bounce:

Plus the fact that she challenged Amélie and Kimmie says alot :yeah::worship:

Allez Tati, on y croit :D:bounce:

rada
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:59 AM
of course she dose ;) GO GOLOVIN

mboyle
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:31 AM
Well 0-10 h2h seemed pretty bleak (thread title) till I saw the scoreline of those matches...
It only shows me that Tati, despite not being as powerful, has the weapons to hang with those girls and is due for a breakthrough sooner or later :bounce:

Plus the fact that she challenged Amélie and Kimmie says alot :yeah::worship:

Allez Tati, on y croit :D:bounce:

Okay I thought of the question I wanted to ask:

Golovin, when she is challenging everyone, plays a very Hingis-esque game to me. She doesn't over power players, but she sets up points, wrong foots people, draws errors and puts away balls when necessary. She also works her way into net fairly often, especially for a young player. Martina, Chanda and Natsya rarely struggle with lower ranked opponents (last year was an exception for Natsya cuz of her mother,) and often test but rarely upset the big guns. Why is Tati able to take out so many big names and test so hard the even bigger names, but yet loses still to players she should beat handily?

rseto
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:34 AM
You make valid points. Also consider that Golovin lost in the first rounds of the Australian Open and French Open, then lost in the second round of Wimbledon in 2006. She's never made it past a grand slam 4th round and her results at the grand slams this year are worse than any year she has played professional tennis.

She played the match of her career against Sharapova at the Nasdaq and still lost. If Golovin weren't so overweight and had better mobility, she wouldn't have rolled that ankle.

I think Golovin could possibly be the next Alex Stevenson, except Stevenson made it further in grand slam play at least once.

still can't get over that maria needed three sets to beat tati on two occasions now. :lol:

delicatecutter
Aug 3rd, 2006, 03:48 AM
Ana is not a step behind Vaidisova.

Derek.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 04:14 AM
Why is Tati able to take out so many big names and test so hard the even bigger names, but yet loses still to players she should beat handily?

Because she feels less pressure when she plays the top guns. She has nothing to lose against them. But when you play someone ranked lower than you, you feel like you have to live up to the expectations of winning. This is what it's like for Daniela as well.

Derek.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 04:16 AM
Ana is not a step behind Vaidisova.

Yes she is.

faboozadoo15
Aug 3rd, 2006, 04:36 AM
Ana is not a step behind Vaidisova.
ana's older and has won less. how could they be even, and how could ana be ahead?

i like ana more, btw.

delicatecutter
Aug 3rd, 2006, 04:40 AM
ana's older and has won less. how could they be even, and how could ana be ahead?

i like ana more, btw.

Won more what? Nicole works the Tiev III and IV circuit and Ana doesn't. Ana has as many impressive wins as Vaidisova does. I wish Ana had drawn Venus Williams in a major but she hasn't.

Ana has also beaten Vaidisova, and Nicole hasn't beaten Ivanovic.

switz
Aug 3rd, 2006, 04:42 AM
ana's older and has won less. how could they be even, and how could ana be ahead?

i like ana more, btw.

the only argument could be that Ivanovic plays the big names tougher maybe. Vaidisova beat Venus and Mauresmo at Roland Garros. Venus' form since RG has indicated that wasn't particularly impressive and we all know about Amelie at Roland Garros.

Vaidisova is clearly ahead but Ivanovic has a lot more room for improvement IMO.

Lulu.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:01 AM
Tatiana is very talented. Hopefully her new coach will help her get it together and start playing to her full potential

Winnie
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:20 AM
the only argument could be that Ivanovic plays the big names tougher maybe. Vaidisova beat Venus and Mauresmo at Roland Garros. Venus' form since RG has indicated that wasn't particularly impressive and we all know about Amelie at Roland Garros.

Vaidisova is clearly ahead but Ivanovic has a lot more room for improvement IMO.
So,like you said,Amelie is not impressive when she plays at home,so,the ivanovic's win against her means nothing! :) :confused: And what she did after that,nothing...she struggles in GC,and the fact that she want to play only tier one and tier two is not a good tactical,she doesn't improve her game and have less self-confident that Nicole,that's why she will on the Top 10 before the end on the year.
And personaly,I think that Nicole's game is more impresive and that she have more talent,but that only my point of view!

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:28 AM
she lost some real tight ones but i think with her all she needs is a copule good wins and she will be up there

new-york
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:39 AM
i'm still wondering how people can express almost sure theories about a match that didn't end.

Especially in a sport where pretty much anything has scorelinely happened.

ezekiel
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:11 AM
the only argument could be that Ivanovic plays the big names tougher maybe. Vaidisova beat Venus and Mauresmo at Roland Garros. Venus' form since RG has indicated that wasn't particularly impressive and we all know about Amelie at Roland Garros.

Vaidisova is clearly ahead but Ivanovic has a lot more room for improvement IMO.

Hey i am Ana fan but her form and results this year have been miserable and indefensible while Nicole and many other players have passed her by in accomplishments and form.
Hopefully things are changing with her new coach

Corswandt
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:54 PM
Should be 1-2 against sharapova.She would have beaten her at Miami

I've read this about one million times before, and it's on the way to become undisputed truth. So I feel that, again, I must make a point here: Maria was up a break, and under normal circumstances this match would have been over in two sets. The second set setpoint was a lucky bounce off the netcord that landed about 5 mm in, not to mention other last ditch moonballs on matchpoint by Golovin that landed right on the line. Yet Maria didn't let that get to her and was leading the third set when Golovin rolled her ankle.

faboozadoo15
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:54 PM
but 40-AD for tati
no it wasn't. i know it's probably getting mixed up in everyone's head :retard: or everyones choosing to be retarded, but tati twisted her ankle chasing a maria winner. that makes it deuce. remember, maria saw she had finished the point and turned before she even saw what happened to tati. that point was over. there was no more break point.

TatiAnnahølic
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:24 PM
Okay I thought of the question I wanted to ask:

Golovin, when she is challenging everyone, plays a very Hingis-esque game to me. She doesn't over power players, but she sets up points, wrong foots people, draws errors and puts away balls when necessary. She also works her way into net fairly often, especially for a young player. Martina, Chanda and Natsya rarely struggle with lower ranked opponents (last year was an exception for Natsya cuz of her mother,) and often test but rarely upset the big guns. Why is Tati able to take out so many big names and test so hard the even bigger names, but yet loses still to players she should beat handily?I think the problem with Tati it's her motivation (or lack of sometimes). When she's playing against top players she manages to stay calm and fights every ball (like against Mauresmo (0-5 down) or against Sharapova (1-5 down) to comeback. But against lesser known players (aka Dulko, Frazier, Pratt) when she's down she selfdestructs with silly errors (tank mode).

hablo
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:59 PM
i'm still wondering how people can express almost sure theories about a match that didn't end.

Especially in a sport where pretty much anything has scorelinely happened.
Good point.

FrenchY52
Aug 12th, 2006, 11:28 AM
However she is
3-1 vs Safina
2-0 vs Groenefeld
2-0 vs Mirza
1-1 vs Jankovic

Next match vs Safina in Montréal. C'mon Tat

delicatecutter
Aug 12th, 2006, 05:06 PM
However she is
3-1 vs Safina
2-0 vs Groenefeld
2-0 vs Mirza
1-1 vs Jankovic

Next match vs Safina in Montréal. C'mon Tat

She's also one of the best-dressed on tour! :yeah: And a very sweet girl.

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 12th, 2006, 05:13 PM
At the moment there are big gaps between all of them.

Maria - Wimbledon title, very consistent GS semi-finalist

Big gap

Nicole - One GS SF, beating Amelie & Venus, and has (lower tier) titles a plenty.

Big gap

Ana - no consistency or real GS breakthrough but challenges top players and has beaten Amelie (any other top 5 victories for her?)

Big gap

Tatiana - similar lack of consistency, no GS breakthrough, challenges top players but doesn't beat them.

I like Golovin the best of this group, followed by Ana, but the fact is that they are all at different stages of development and there is a real chance that Tatiana/Ana/Nicole will never catch up to Maria.

:worship: None of these players are really THAT comparable to each other at the moment. However, it is very interesting that Tatiana has not beaten any of these players. It just shows she doesn't have the mental fortitude yet, and even though she may gain it, she'll have to do it in a bigger way than how Serena and Justine were eventually able to gain that mentality if she wants to get to that top top pleve. Whereas Tatiana has tough time with top and lower ranked players, Serena and Justine were at least intermittently beating top players prior and beating lower ranked players most of the time prior to their mega success on the tour.

3-1 vs Safina
2-0 vs Groenefeld
2-0 vs Mirza
1-1 vs Jankovic

Next match vs Safina in Montréal. C'mon Tat
Thanks for those stats. However, I don't see why you can put Mirza on there with the results she is currently having. Here are some of her other h2h.

1-1 Chakvetadze
0-1 Clijsters
1-1 Dementieva
2-2 Dulko
1-0 Hantuchova
0-1 Henin-Hardenne
1-0 Kuznetsova
0-1 Mauresmo
0-1 Myskina
0-2 Peng
1-1 Pennetta
0-1 Pierce
1-1 Raymond
1-1 Schiavone
1-1 Sprem
0-1 Srebotnik
0-1 Suarez
4-0 Sugiyama
0-1 Serena
1-0 Venus
1-1 Zheng
0-1 Zvonareva

clearly, she hasn't played enough tennis yet (partially due to her recent injuries and slump) to completely judge her mental capabilities -- but it is obvious she can be dangerous to anyone ranked out of the top 5. As of now, she is just going through a slump. Maybe she'll wake up soon.

delicatecutter
Aug 12th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Once Tati learns to use her forehand more aggressively (like she was finally doing in Miami), she will be Top 10.

Craigy
Aug 12th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Well it's not like each of these players has totally killed her :rolleyes: The matches have been close and either player could have won ;)

FrenchY52
Aug 12th, 2006, 05:24 PM
0-2 Serena

Craigy
Aug 12th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Tati's last match against Serena :worship: She really pushed Serena! And Tati has beat a lot of top players, so :shrug:

FrenchY52
Aug 12th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Working with Dean Goldfine this summer will help her and i really hope they'll stay together if it makes Tati improving

akosiirwyn
Aug 12th, 2006, 06:56 PM
Tati can definitely compete with them, I think that's because she has experience against them in juniors. She probably needs more experience against the lower-ranked players that are capable of beating the top girls to gain a bit more confidence and be able win matches against players like Masha, Ana, Nicole, Justine, Amélie, etc.

yeu tzuoo wang
Aug 12th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Should be 1-2 against sharapova.She would have beaten her at Miami,but it's not like any of those matches are terrible,they look all like quality showings.

It shouldn't be anything, she didn't finish the match and Sharapova could have easily came back. So it's 0-3 and remains it...