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Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:04 AM
(dunno if there's already a thread on this topic, but I was just wondering, now the marriage thread is bumped)
lots of opinions on it,
one post in the marriage thread
Sure...but that is best left for another thread (again).

Same sex couples should be judged under the same criteria as non gay people...
If a couple, regardless of whether they are gay or straight (or somewhere in between) can provide a loving home and a caring environment then they should be able to access adoption if they so desire. Sexual orientation should have no bearing on parenting.
what do you think?

PatrickRyan
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:07 AM
yeah i think there is a thread on this already

James
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:07 AM
My answer is still yes, like it was on the earlier thread on this topic, which turned out to quite a battle as I recall.

Bottom line is that a child needs to have a stable environment to grow up in, both gay and straight parents can provide that.

hingisGOAT
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:13 AM
no recent studies on homosexual parents have shown that parental sexual orientation has any adverse effect on children, or that the children of gays are more likely to be gay themselves.

also, the probability of a gay couple teaching values such as acceptance & tolerance to their children is much better :) the real question then, is should straight people be allowed to adopt? :rolleyes:

Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:14 AM
My answer is still yes, like it was on the earlier thread on this topic, which turned out to quite a battle as I recall.

Bottom line is that a child needs to have a stable environment to grow up in, both gay and straight parents can provide that.
i'm having a few discussions with my mum about this topic lately
she's not really convinced I can still have children now that she knows I'm lesbian.
but I grew up without a dad, and I turned out fine!

James
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:16 AM
If anyone wants to know what happened on the other thread:

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=192576

Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:16 AM
no recent studies on homosexual parents have shown that parental sexual orientation has any adverse effect on children, or that the children of gays are more likely to be gay themselves.

also, the probability of a gay couple teaching values such as acceptance & tolerance to their children is much better :) the real question then, is should straight people be allowed to adopt? :rolleyes:
exactly,
I think that gay couples that choose to adopt have really thought about it, and are ready to do it,
while some straight couples forget to use a condom and end up with a child they're not really ready for...

Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:18 AM
If anyone wants to know what happened on the other thread:

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=192576
I didn't know if there was one,
but i surely do not wanna cause a fight by starting one again...

James
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:21 AM
no recent studies on homosexual parents have shown that parental sexual orientation has any adverse effect on children, or that the children of gays are more likely to be gay themselves.

also, the probability of a gay couple teaching values such as acceptance & tolerance to their children is much better :) the real question then, is should straight people be allowed to adopt? :rolleyes:

Acceptance of straight people is also a value for the children to learn. The main value should be to respect other people regardless of their sexual orientation. Luckily acceptance and tolerance also appear with straight couples.

James
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:22 AM
exactly,
I think that gay couples that choose to adopt have really thought about it, and are ready to do it,
while some straight couples forget to use a condom and end up with a child they're not really ready for...

The circumstances are different indeed, but it does not mean every child conceived by accident ends up wrong and will not be loved regardless.

Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 10:23 AM
The circumstances are different indeed, but it does not mean every child conceived by accident ends up wrong and will not be loved regardless.
yeah, it's different, but in the end I was raised by a woman without a man
i just looked for a fatherfigure outside my home...

mandy7
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:11 AM
I'm all for it
there's no reason to think a gay couple would do a shittier job than a straight couple
so it's all good if you ask me

-edit-
and can i just say that i find the number of homophobes (or people who do not think gay people deserve the same rights as straight people) quie disturbing! :(

Williams Rulez
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:37 AM
i'm for it, because i believe tt gay couples will be able to bring up children as well as straight parents.

i'm just wondering, do you think tt the children though, might be discriminated or teased in school for example?

adam_ads_n
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:50 AM
I'm against. Recent surveys shown that for the child to be grown up in a good way both mother love and father love is needed. I agree with that, cause I know some people brought up only by mothers or fathers and they have lots of problems in contact with other people. Child may also have problems in the future, because other children, mostly in primary schools, are very unkind to people who just have no mom or dad, so what would it be if they had 2 mothers or 2 fathers. I had problems with some people when I was at school just because someone got to know my parents are close to divorce, which really hurt me in that time.

I live in a very intolerant country, but I'm tolerant myself. I am not against gay marriages, or maybe gay people living together. I know some gay people and they are very kind and funny. But I'm still against gay adoptions.

416_Man
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:53 AM
Gay marriage is a matter of religion, imo.

Gay adoption is a civil matter. Therefore, the couple should be looked at as any other couple in that society. Declining the right to adopt to a gay couple, is equivalent to demanding that blacks should be enslaved, the Chinese shouldn't be allowed to vote, and young people should be whipped each time they swear.

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. In fact, it's quite disgusting to see people even trying to defend the concept that gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt.

Paul.
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:54 AM
I'm against. Recent surveys shown that for the child to be grown up in a good way both mother love and father love is needed. I agree with that, cause I know some people brought up only by mothers or fathers and they have lots of problems in contact with other people. Child may also have problems in the future, because other children, mostly in primary schools, are very unkind to people who just have no mom or dad, so what would it be if they had 2 mothers or 2 fathers. I had problems with some people when I was at school just because someone got to know my parents are close to divorce, which really hurt me in that time.

I live in a very intolerant country, but I'm tolerant myself. I am not against gay marriages, or maybe gay people living together. I know some gay people and they are very kind and funny. But I'm still against gay adoptions.

although i see where you're coming from, this just isnt true. of course it is preferred to have the love of both parents but several of my close friends have only grown up with the love of one parent and do not have problems. i'm sure some people on this board will be in the same situation as my friends and will also make this point.


the love of both parents is not NEEDED it is just PREFERRED

416_Man
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:57 AM
I'm against. Recent surveys shown that for the child to be grown up in a good way both mother love and father love is needed. I agree with that, cause I know some people brought up only by mothers or fathers and they have lots of problems in contact with other people. Child may also have problems in the future, because other children, mostly in primary schools, are very unkind to people who just have no mom or dad, so what would it be if they had 2 mothers or 2 fathers. I had problems with some people when I was at school just because someone got to know my parents are close to divorce, which really hurt me in that time.

I live in a very intolerant country, but I'm tolerant myself. I am not against gay marriages, or maybe gay people living together. I know some gay people and they are very kind and funny. But I'm still against gay adoptions.

I'd say every friend of mine that goes to a private same sex school, has incredible difficulty communicating with the opposite sex. And the logic is there to back it up. So because of that, we're going to close down all boy or all girl private schools?

I can't believe you're really trying to defend this.

Kunal
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:57 AM
how many polls with the gay issues....let it go.

Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 11:58 AM
although i see where you're coming from, this just isnt true. of course it is preferred to have the love of both parents but several of my close friends have only grown up with the love of one parent and do not have problems. i'm sure some people on this board will be in the same situation as my friends and will also make this point.


the love of both parents is not NEEDED it is just PREFERRED
couldn't agree more,
i've had a mother and a father in my house for 11 years,
but I can not say that my father took that role very seriously, so I was better off without him.
so if a child has 2 mothers or 2 fathers who love the child, and take the role seriously and do whatever it takes for the child to be happy, there's nothing wrong with it!

bionic71
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:00 PM
This response originally appeared in a thread last year devoted to the same topic.....http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=6209244#post6209244

.......The crux of the issue is that sexuality should not be a defining factor in providing a loving home for a child.

In my situation...a steady, committed long term relationship ...one based on honesty and trust, both of us with well paid and secure jobs, both have a supportive extended family, brothers and sisters with young children, we have our own home, a dog...all of which makes for a potentially wonderful family environment.

However, because we happen to be in a same sex relationship we are somehow considered incapable and undesirable candidates to care and raise a child.

As a school teacher I see so many kids from dreadful domestic situations and I know that our domestic situation would provide a far more loving environment for a child...yet we are excluded...a fact that both angers and depresses me...because I know it to be a gross falsehood...just like many of the assumptions and misconceptions that surround gay people.

Some children come from families with 2 parents (Mum and Dad), some from single parent situations, some children are raised by grandparents, aunts, uncles, older siblings.....Our child would have 2 dads, BIG DEAL.....2 dads who would love, protect and provide a wonderful family environment...our child would be told from an early age that all families are different and that they happen to have 2 daddies who love and care for them....Incredibly lucky I would say, when some children grow up with parents who are incapable of parenting or extending love and support to their childrren at all.

The fact is that gay people already have children....whether they be from a previous heterosexual relationship, or via surrogacy etc. We could have a child via surrogacy...however this is fraught with too many potential obstacles. We should be able to apply for adoption and be judged on our potential to provide a loving environment...not on the fact that we happen to be gay.

Children are teased bullied for a myriad of reasons.....fat, thin, glasses, slow runner, pimples, red hair, whatever.... this point that the children of same sex parents will be the brunt of additional teasing is mute as far as I am concerned....indicitive of an adult viewpoint about gay people rather than what the child is actual experiencing. Adults who are troubled by gay people, or the notion of gay people having children, often use this argument to support their stance. I can find no evidence to suggest that children from same sex parental relationships are disadvantaged or the victims of excessive bullying etc. The only way to address potential bullying (of any kind) is for parents to foster tolerance, understanding and compassion in their children...qualities unfortunately lacking in far too many adults....children are exposed far too often to ignorant perspectives concerning gay people from their parents...via gross assumptions, fear and misinformation.

I teach a number of students who have parents in same sex relationships and the children are well adjusted adolescents, because their parents have sat and discussed the situation honestly and openly with their children (something that many parents fail to do)......One of my collegues has a daughter from a previous heterosexaul relationship...the daugher is a happy, confident, articulate teenager...no hang ups (aside from the usual boyfriend issues)...just your standard teenager.

As I have stated above...the issue isn't about whether a straight person thinks I would make a good parent or not...I couldn't care less about such opinions. I know, and my family knows, that we could provide a child with a wonderful opportunity to be part of loving, nurturing family.....yet we are unable to do so (at the moment).

Grohl
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:03 PM
The crux of the issue is that sexuality should not be a defining factor in providing a loving home for a child.

In my situation...a steady, committed long term relationship ...one based on honesty and trust, both of us with well paid and secure jobs, both have a supportive extended family, brothers and sisters with young children, we have our own home, a dog...all of which makes for a potentially wonderful family environment.

However, because we happen to be in a same sex relationship we are somehow considered incapable and undesirable candidates to care and raise a child.

As a school teacher I see so many kids from dreadful domestic situations and I know that our domestic situation would provide a far more loving environment for a child...yet we are excluded...a fact that both angers and depresses me...because I know it to be a gross falsehood...just like many of the assumptions and misconceptions that surround gay people.

Some children come from families with 2 parents (Mum and Dad), some from single parent situations, some children are raised by grandparents, aunts, uncles, older siblings.....Our child would have 2 dads, BIG DEAL.....2 dads who would love, protect and provide a wonderful family environment...our child would be told from an early age that all families are different and that they happen to have 2 daddies who love and care for them....Incredibly lucky I would say, when some children grow up with parents who are incapable of parenting or extending love and support to their childrren at all.

The fact is that gay people already have children....whether they be from a previous heterosexual relationship, or via surrogacy etc. We could have a child via surrogacy...however this is fraught with too many potential obstacles. We should be able to apply for adoption and be judged on our potential to provide a loving environment...not on the fact that we happen to be gay.

Children are teased bullied for a myriad of reasons.....fat, thin, glasses, slow runner, pimples, red hair, whatever.... this point that the children of same sex parents will be the brunt of additional teasing is mute as far as I am concerned....indicitive of an adult viewpoint about gay people rather than what the child is actual experiencing. Adults who are troubled by gay people, or the notion of gay people having children, often use this argument to support their stance. I can find no evidence to suggest that children from same sex parental relationships are disadvantaged or the victims of excessive bullying etc. The only way to address potential bullying (of any kind) is for parents to foster tolerance, understanding and compassion in their children...qualities unfortunately lacking in far too many adults....children are exposed far too often to ignorant perspectives concerning gay people from their parents...via gross assumptions, fear and misinformation.

I teach a number of students who have parents in same sex relationships and the children are well adjusted adolescents, because their parents have sat and discussed the situation honestly and openly with their children (something that many parents fail to do)......One of my collegues has a daughter from a previous heterosexaul relationship...the daugher is a happy, confident, articulate teenager...no hang ups (aside from the usual boyfriend issues)...just your standard teenager.

As I have stated above...the issue isn't about whether a straight person thinks I would make a good parent or not...I couldn't care less about such opinions. I know, and my family knows, that we could provide a child with a wonderful opportunity to be part of loving, nurturing family.....yet we are unable to do so (at the moment).
Amen!

mandy7
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:07 PM
no way

...cause.. ?

adam_ads_n
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:08 PM
I'd say every friend of mine that goes to a private same sex school, has incredible difficulty communicating with the opposite sex. And the logic is there to back it up. So because of that, we're going to close down all boy or all girl private schools?

I can't believe you're really trying to defend this.
Well...I just gave example from my country. Here we don't have same sex schools, only mixed ones. And I know some people who were very affraid of contact with other people (both their sex, and opposite), because they had familly problems. I know there are also examples of people who are very "open" to others despite having no mum or dad, but I know 2 people with familly problems personally, and I know they were very scared of talking to people or just say "hello, I am..." in the new class. They started to be open to anyone after someone talked to them and they felt comfortable, and liked.

I know I may be attacked for that or badrepped, but I have never been for gay-adoption. Poll results just show that gay people are majority here, and I understand they can fight for gay rights, just like the other social groups are fighting for their rights :)

pancake
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:20 PM
Well...I just gave example from my country. Here we don't have same sex schools, only mixed ones. And I know some people who were very affraid of contact with other people (both their sex, and opposite), because they had familly problems. I know there are also examples of people who are very "open" to others despite having no mum or dad, but I know 2 people with familly problems personally, and I know they were very scared of talking to people or just say "hello, I am..." in the new class. They started to be open to anyone after someone talked to them and they felt comfortable, and liked.

I know I may be attacked for that or badrepped, but I have never been for gay-adoption. Poll results just show that gay people are majority here, and I understand they can fight for gay rights, just like the other social groups are fighting for their rights :)
Off-topic: Well I know some friends having family problem as well... But they don't have the problem as your two friends have. Actually they're very extrovert.

BTW, even though I am gay, I go for the 'no' option.

Dexter
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:25 PM
Well...I just gave example from my country. Here we don't have same sex schools, only mixed ones. And I know some people who were very affraid of contact with other people (both their sex, and opposite), because they had familly problems. I know there are also examples of people who are very "open" to others despite having no mum or dad, but I know 2 people with familly problems personally, and I know they were very scared of talking to people or just say "hello, I am..." in the new class. They started to be open to anyone after someone talked to them and they felt comfortable, and liked.

I know I may be attacked for that or badrepped, but I have never been for gay-adoption. Poll results just show that gay people are majority here, and I understand they can fight for gay rights, just like the other social groups are fighting for their rights :)Of course there ARE same sex schools in Poland :lol:

James
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:30 PM
Well...I just gave example from my country. Here we don't have same sex schools, only mixed ones. And I know some people who were very affraid of contact with other people (both their sex, and opposite), because they had familly problems. I know there are also examples of people who are very "open" to others despite having no mum or dad, but I know 2 people with familly problems personally, and I know they were very scared of talking to people or just say "hello, I am..." in the new class. They started to be open to anyone after someone talked to them and they felt comfortable, and liked.

I know I may be attacked for that or badrepped, but I have never been for gay-adoption. Poll results just show that gay people are majority here, and I understand they can fight for gay rights, just like the other social groups are fighting for their rights :)

You can't base a theory on experience you have with two people. There are countless examples of just the opposite and I have encountered them a lot in my line of work, just like I have seen people with a lot of problems due to broken homes. The essence however is that the child feels loved and is well looked after. Gay couples can provide that environment too.

adam_ads_n
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:41 PM
Of course there ARE same sex schools in Poland :lol:
not as popular are mixed sex ones. There is no in my town and it has 70.000 population

Dexter
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:49 PM
not as popular are mixed sex ones. There is no in my town and it has 70.000 populationI've never stated there were popular :p

saki
Aug 2nd, 2006, 01:34 PM
Gay marriage is a matter of religion, imo.



Erm, no. There is civil marriage too. You know, the registry office/townhall marriages that straight couples can do. Churchs, synagogues, mosques, etc can do whatever they want but civil marriage is none of their business.

Paul.
Aug 2nd, 2006, 01:38 PM
i have a question to all those who dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. if they get married in a registery office (i.e. not before god) then what is the problem in calling it a marriage. my parents got married in a registery office and they call it a marriage so why cant ga people. if they are allowed all the same rights as married people then isnt saying civil ceremony or whatever just a bit pedantinc (even derogatory to some :shrug:

:wavey:

adam_ads_n
Aug 2nd, 2006, 01:59 PM
i have a question to all those who dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. if they get married in a registery office (i.e. not before god) then what is the problem in calling it a marriage. my parents got married in a registery office and they call it a marriage so why cant ga people. if they are allowed all the same rights as married people then isnt saying civil ceremony or whatever just a bit pedantinc (even derogatory to some :shrug:

:wavey:
I think that this is still a marriage but only a civil ceremony. Some people say that complete marriage needs both civil ceremony and church ceremony, but I don't agree with it. My parents got married in church 3 months after they had their civil ceremony, and they are officialy married since March 19th, not June 12th.

Paul.
Aug 2nd, 2006, 02:01 PM
I think that this is still a marriage but only a civil ceremony. Some people say that complete marriage needs both civil ceremony and church ceremony, but I don't agree with it. My parents got married in church 3 months after they had their civil ceremony, and they are officialy married since March 19th, not June 12th.
ok

i guess its just a matter of opinion

in my eyes, if two people (any two people) are in love and want to be married then they dont need any kind of validation. they will know that they are married, no matter what anyone else may say :)

Paneru
Aug 2nd, 2006, 03:11 PM
I'm against. Recent surveys shown that for the child to be grown up in a good way both mother love and father love is needed. I agree with that, cause I know some people brought up only by mothers or fathers and they have lots of problems in contact with other people. Child may also have problems in the future, because other children, mostly in primary schools, are very unkind to people who just have no mom or dad, so what would it be if they had 2 mothers or 2 fathers. I had problems with some people when I was at school just because someone got to know my parents are close to divorce, which really hurt me in that time.

I live in a very intolerant country, but I'm tolerant myself. I am not against gay marriages, or maybe gay people living together. I know some gay people and they are very kind and funny. But I'm still against gay adoptions.

I think that logic is selfish for
lack of a better word.

You are gonna have most of these kids with issues
regardless steming from their past.

While it is good to have both a dominant and present male and
female role model in one's life, I cannot see leaving these children
out completely because one doesn't agree with gay adoption.

i.e. Leave these kids to fight and trying not to fall through the
cracks dealing with issues anyways, as oppossed to providing a
loving, caring, and nuturing environment because it doesn't fit
what you believe is the ideal model for raising children. Well newsflash,
many households throughout this world even with both parents of different
sex are living in less than ideal conditions.

I'd rather these kids have parents of any sexual
orientation than go through life having none.

MinnyGophers
Aug 3rd, 2006, 12:57 AM
ok

i guess its just a matter of opinion

in my eyes, if two people (any two people) are in love and want to be married then they dont need any kind of validation. they will know that they are married, no matter what anyone else may say :)

The problem isn't with being together in a recognized union rather than getting married for the rights that come with that union, like hospital visits, social security...etc...

416_Man
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:04 AM
Erm, no. There is civil marriage too. You know, the registry office/townhall marriages that straight couples can do. Churchs, synagogues, mosques, etc can do whatever they want but civil marriage is none of their business.

Ummm, I should state my idea again.

Gay marriage is a matter of religion, IN MY OPINION.

Ya, thanks good night. :)

NyCPsU
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:25 AM
yes they should be alllowed

i have a friend who has two fathers. She has turned out ok. She is straight, not that it matters, but the myth that gay parents raise gay kids is outrageous imo. Quite the opposite in her case, I mean she opposes gay marriage. Always thought that was weird but never got into it with her why that is.

PatrickRyan
Aug 3rd, 2006, 01:30 AM
yes it's ok

Wiggly
Aug 3rd, 2006, 02:34 AM
They could. But I think they also need a boy and girl model(mentor :confused: ).

timafi
Aug 3rd, 2006, 03:19 AM
off course :)

galadriel
Aug 3rd, 2006, 07:06 AM
Yes :D

Wigglytuff
Aug 3rd, 2006, 07:22 AM
I'm against. Recent surveys shown that for the child to be grown up in a good way both mother love and father love is needed. I agree with that, cause I know some people brought up only by mothers or fathers and they have lots of problems in contact with other people. Child may also have problems in the future, because other children, mostly in primary schools, are very unkind to people who just have no mom or dad, so what would it be if they had 2 mothers or 2 fathers. I had problems with some people when I was at school just because someone got to know my parents are close to divorce, which really hurt me in that time.

I live in a very intolerant country, but I'm tolerant myself. I am not against gay marriages, or maybe gay people living together. I know some gay people and they are very kind and funny. But I'm still against gay adoptions.
simply put that is a lie.

EVERY study on the matter has shown that a child is many times better off with either one loving parent or two same sex parents than with 1 mother and 1 father who are abusive, or otherwise poor parents.

EVERY scientific study has shown that it is the QUALITY of the parenting that matters above EVERYTHING ELSE, money, gender, marital status, etc.

Brαm
Aug 3rd, 2006, 07:59 AM
I'm against. Recent surveys shown that for the child to be grown up in a good way both mother love and father love is needed.Proof?

I know some gay people and they are very kind and funny.Funny huh? :rolleyes:

morningglory
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:04 AM
No. since it would be unnatural and simply not the way families were designed to be. Gays either adopt a kid as a single parent, or leave it altogether.

mandy7
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:06 AM
No. since it would be unnatural and simply not the way families were designed to be. Gays either adopt a kid as a single parent, or leave it altogether.

Families were designed? :eek:
OMG! I'm soooooooooo getting mine done by tom ford or donatela versace!!!!!! :yippee:

James
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:08 AM
Families were designed? :eek:
OMG! I'm soooooooooo getting mine done by tom ford or donatela versace!!!!!! :yippee:

Me too, that would be so hot. :worship:

Grohl
Aug 3rd, 2006, 03:17 PM
No. since it would be unnatural and simply not the way families were designed to be. Gays either adopt a kid as a single parent, or leave it altogether.
families weren't "designed" to be as a one-parent-concept, but there are plenty of those!
do you have something against that as well?

Kirt12255
Aug 3rd, 2006, 03:36 PM
My answer is still yes, like it was on the earlier thread on this topic, which turned out to quite a battle as I recall.

Bottom line is that a child needs to have a stable environment to grow up in, both gay and straight parents can provide that.

As a 29 yr old looking for a husband!!! I disagree!

Majority of gay's and lesbians who want children....are more about their rights than what that child needs!

As a gay man I am against Gay Marriage and Child rearing.......for now!

A child with two gay parents will be fucked up going through schooling....for now!

A straight couple are a better option at the moment.

I DO NOT BELIEVE in Consentual gay marriage either. Two men found each other and after 3 weeks want to marry.

Not different to the 48% of divorce with breeders I know.

Too many gay men want a union through a Church and have gayies...."sigh" lifestyle is lifestyle. If you choose the chicken burger...don't expect some beef. IMO ;)

Wigglytuff
Aug 3rd, 2006, 03:39 PM
No. since it would be unnatural and simply not the way families were designed to be. Gays either adopt a kid as a single parent, or leave it altogether.
i love how people on the INTERNET talk about anything being unnatural... :retard: :smash:

mandy7
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:06 PM
I DO NOT BELIEVE in Consentual gay marriage either. Two men found each other and after 3 weeks want to marry.

oh please, Dharma and Greg got married after a few hours
and no one bitched about that!

Grohl
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:07 PM
oh please, Dharma and Greg got married after a few hours
and no one bitched about that!
:yeah: :haha:

<Sven>
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:14 PM
oh please, Dharma and Greg got married after a few hours
and no one bitched about that!
:lol: :worship:
too bad I can't goodrep you for that one...
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mandy7 again."

James
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:14 PM
As a 29 yr old looking for a husband!!! I disagree!

Majority of gay's and lesbians who want children....are more about their rights than what that child needs!

As a gay man I am against Gay Marriage and Child rearing.......for now!

A child with two gay parents will be fucked up going through schooling....for now!

A straight couple are a better option at the moment.

I DO NOT BELIEVE in Consentual gay marriage either. Two men found each other and after 3 weeks want to marry.

Not different to the 48% of divorce with breeders I know.

Too many gay men want a union through a Church and have gayies...."sigh" lifestyle is lifestyle. If you choose the chicken burger...don't expect some beef. IMO ;)

Most of that was a load of crap. I would give some arguments, but I suspect you are on pills, booze or drugs, so why bother. ;)

mandy7
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:18 PM
thanks saar and sven :p

Grohl
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:19 PM
thanks saar and sven :p
i'd goodrep you too, but I can't :p

Sonja
Aug 3rd, 2006, 07:57 PM
Yes they should be able to adopt.

It is about the QUALITY of parents, not their SEXUALITY. ;)

Rocketta
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:21 PM
No Fathers Need Apply

What if God, nature and thousands of years of human experience turn out to be wrong and marriage between one man and one woman is not, in fact, the single best way to bring children into the world and raise them up to be healthy adults?

What if by next Father's Day, federal judges rule that children don't really need fathers--or mothers, for that matter--and that it is therefore a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment for states to stop lesbian and gay couples from adopting children and raising them as if they were married couples?

This is what the American Psychological Association and the National Association of Social Workers are advocating.

Both groups have filed amicus briefs in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit opposing the State of Nebraska's marriage amendment because it denies same-sex parents equal status under law to heterosexual married parents.

Seeking a Revolution (http://weblinks2.epnet.com/DeliveryPrintSave.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+29FD9104-7CA5-4463-AB04-E9B27A91A34C%40sessionmgr2+dbs+aph+cp+1+55F5&_us=hs+True+cst+0%3B1%3B2%3B3+or+Date+mdbs+aph+frn +1+sm+KS+sl+0+dstb+KS+sel+False+ri+KAAACB1D0001013 0+98AE&_uso=st%5B0+-%28gay++and++adoption%29++AND++%28%28FT++Y%29%29+t g%5B0+-+mdb%5B0+-imh+db%5B0+-aph+op%5B0+-+hd+False+2107&del=p&dt=a&ev=CAP&fd=&fi=aph_21310581_AN&del_submit=Print&est=&ft=on&ff=s&df=1&di=4#toc)

Nebraska's marriage amendment was approved by 70% of the state's voters six years ago. Last year, it was overturned by a federal district judge, who argued, among other things, that the law was unconstitutional because it prevented same-sex couples from seeking a statutory change by Nebraska's unicameral legislature that would allow them to adopt children.

The 8th Circuit is now reviewing Nebraska's marriage amendment, and the issue could end up in the Supreme Court. But, as arguments by the APA and NASW demonstrate, the battle is not ultimately about who gets to legally shack up with whom, it is about whether the distinct status of fatherhood and motherhood should be abolished in U.S. law. It is about how children will be raised.

The APA and NASW bluntly argue that children don't need both a mother and a father.

"Over the last 20 years," says the NASW brief, "a considerable body of social science research has established that lesbian and gay parents have parenting skills that are at least equivalent to those of heterosexual parents."

"In addition," says the APA brief, "a growing number of same-sex couples are becoming parents through methods including donor-insemination (with either an anonymous or known donor), assistance of a surrogate mother, and adoption. … Indeed, the relevant scientific research has been remarkably consistent in showing that lesbian and gay parents are every bit as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents."

In "Lesbian & Gay Parenting," a booklet published by the APA "to serve the needs of psychologists, lawyers and parties in family law cases," the group even implies that same-sex couples might make better parents than heterosexual couples. "The results of some studies suggest that lesbian mothers' and gay fathers' parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual couples," the booklet says.

These groups seek a revolution that overturns the basic organizing unit of human society--the family. But they can succeed only if they also overturn our moral and religious foundations.

There can be no doubt that when 70% of Nebraska voters approved the state's marriage amendment they were acting on those moral and religious foundations. The Ten Commandments, after all, puts a heavy focus on marriage and family: "Honor thy father and mother." "Thou shall not commit adultery." "Thou shall not covet they neighbor's wife."

Jesus personally defined marriage: "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female', and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate."

Either the Old and New Testaments are right about marriage and family, or the APA and the NASW are right. There is no middle ground.

As long as Congress fails to send a marriage-protection amendment to the states for ratification, the APA and NASW will have a chance of winning a "right" in federal court for same-sex couples to create children through modern technology and then adopt them. That, of course, will deny children their God-given right to claim, let alone honor, both a father and a mother. But these groups don't care about that.

Their aim is not to advance the welfare of children, it is to secure for same-sex couples the children nature denies them. Another Bible story holds the definitive rebuttal to their suit: Solomon knew a true mother would rather give up the child she loved than see it done irreparable harm.

PHOTO (BLACK & WHITE): ROBIN SHLAKMAN and Dee Hoole adopted each other's daughters, who were conceived through artificial insemination, after a 1995 ruling by the New York Court of Appeals that unmarried couples could adopt children. The American Psychological Association and the National Association of Social Workers have filed amicus briefs in federal appeals court against Nebraska's marriage law because it denies same-sex couples equal status to heterosexual married parents.

~~~~~~~~

By Terence P. Jeffrey

Copyright of Human Events is the property of Human Events Inc.. The copyright in an individual article may be maintained by the author in certain cases. Content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use.
Source: Human Events, 6/19/2006, Vol. 62 Issue 21, p5, 1p
Item: 21310581


of course I voted yes.....you have to be some kind of selfish bastard to rather a child stay familyless then be in a home with two people that would think the world of them. :shrug:

Black Mamba.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:26 PM
All I know is that there are so many kids in the system that would love a home, any home. The sheer number of kids in the system is staggering and sad.

Yasmine
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:46 PM
Very interesting question :)
A while ago I would have answered no to that question. But the only reason why I would have done, is not because I thought gay couples couldn't take care and bring up a child properly at all but because of how the narrow minded individualist world we live in would react to the child. I definitely think as Bionic so rightly said in this thread that there is no link between sexuality and ability to love a child :worship: And after all I don't see why gay couples who would bring up wonderful families (much nicer than a lot of broken famillies I know of) should pay attention to how the society and people would look at them.

So answer is yes, definitely :yeah:

The_Pov
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:50 PM
My only problem with Gay people raising children is that no matter what people say, that child will recieve stick from the other kids at school because a lot of children are taught that a child should have a mummy and a daddy, this coupled with the fact that in our society we are taught to reject the unfamiliar, means that bullying is almost a given.

Although what I do find cruel is that if a Lesbian couple wants a child one of them can go out and have a one night stand and get pregnant, but for two men they don't have that option.

Rocketta
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:59 PM
My only problem with Gay people raising children is that no matter what people say, that child will recieve stick from the other kids at school because a lot of children are taught that a child should have a mummy and a daddy, this coupled with the fact that in our society we are taught to reject the unfamiliar, means that bullying is almost a given.

Although what I do find cruel is that if a Lesbian couple wants a child one of them can go out and have a one night stand and get pregnant, but for two men they don't have that option.

um, it's a given that if you are poor your child will be picked on cause they don't have the right clothes or get free lunch.....should poor people not be allowed to have children because the rest of society can't seem to get their act together and teach their children that we're all God's creatures and therefore should be treated accordingly? :confused:

Rocketta
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:01 PM
My only problem with Gay people raising children is that no matter what people say, that child will recieve stick from the other kids at school because a lot of children are taught that a child should have a mummy and a daddy, this coupled with the fact that in our society we are taught to reject the unfamiliar, means that bullying is almost a given.

Although what I do find cruel is that if a Lesbian couple wants a child one of them can go out and have a one night stand and get pregnant, but for two men they don't have that option.

How about two parents who are fat and will raise a fat child? That childs going to be teased to should we ban them from having kids until they drop the pounds and decide to live a life of tofu and exercise? :shrug:

Sonja
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:01 PM
My only problem with Gay people raising children is that no matter what people say, that child will recieve stick from the other kids at school because a lot of children are taught that a child should have a mummy and a daddy, this coupled with the fact that in our society we are taught to reject the unfamiliar, means that bullying is almost a given.

Although what I do find cruel is that if a Lesbian couple wants a child one of them can go out and have a one night stand and get pregnant, but for two men they don't have that option.

Not picking at you, just have time to enter the discussion at this point.

I think that kids will be picked on regardless though. If it weren't that their parents were gay, it'd be because they have glasses, braces, are fat, too skinny, *insert other lame excuse here*, etc.

Don't you think?

Rocketta
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:02 PM
How about extremely tall parents, should we ban them from having daughters because clearly she will be teased for being too tall?

It can go on and on....you can't limit someone's rights because others might do wrong. :shrug:

Kirt12255
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:09 PM
Most of that was a load of crap. I would give some arguments, but I suspect you are on pills, booze or drugs, so why bother. ;)

Perhaps you should get out more? General concencus in Melbourne Australia...I got a bad rep for that? Fuck that!!! (No from you)...It's easier being on the better side of delusional when it comes to being gay. Let them wish!!! OR FUCKING GROW UP AND SMELL THE SALT!!!:rolleyes: ATM Raising a child in a gay relationship is a selfish agenda.:rolleyes:

James
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:14 PM
Perhaps you should get out more? General concencus in Melbourne Australia...I got a bad rep for that? Fuck that!!! (No from you)...It's easier being on the better side of delusional when it comes to being gay. Let them wish!!! OR FUCKING GROW UP AND SMELL THE SALT!!!:rolleyes: ATM Raising a child in a gay relationship is a selfish agenda.:rolleyes:

I get out enough, thank you. But I seldom see a coherent sentence from you. I have no idea what trip you are on, but I sincerely hope it's the better side of delusional. I have my doubts though.

!<blocparty>!
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:16 PM
How about two parents who are fat and will raise a fat child? That childs going to be teased to should we ban them from having kids until they drop the pounds and decide to live a life of tofu and exercise? :shrug:

Thank you very much. Ex fucking actly.

*Of course* I voted yes. This is the 21st Century, people who have a problem with gay couples adopting seriously need to get over it.

!<blocparty>!
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:19 PM
Although what I do find cruel is that if a Lesbian couple wants a child one of them can go out and have a one night stand and get pregnant, but for two men they don't have that option.

You have got to be kidding me.

Kirt12255
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:21 PM
Most of that was a load of crap. I would give some arguments, but I suspect you are on pills, booze or drugs, so why bother. ;)

And for the point....prolly all 3....I think I make my point there. Can you find me a gay parent that doesn't want all of that and then some? Just because it "may" be possible is not a right!

SHOULD THIS BE ALLOWED BECAUSE 5 % of gay men may make good parents?30% of gay men are dealing with issues involving their childhood..."fair to impose that on an 8 year old"? Think!!!! The gay revolution is moving along fine without piss-wad 18 year old's thinking they have the answer! Sit back and think you try-hard queen!:rolleyes:

Kirt12255
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:23 PM
I get out enough, thank you. But I seldom see a coherent sentence from you. I have no idea what trip you are on, but I sincerely hope it's the better side of delusional. I have my doubts though.

Ohh nasty piece of batter are we not? Hit a point?:lol:

Gay relationships are not recognised yet, why would child bearing come before that. Grow up!

Sonja
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM
Just because they're not recognized worldwide, doesn't make them wrong, however. There was a first for everything. ;)

The_Pov
Aug 3rd, 2006, 09:47 PM
Not picking at you, just have time to enter the discussion at this point.

I think that kids will be picked on regardless though. If it weren't that their parents were gay, it'd be because they have glasses, braces, are fat, too skinny, *insert other lame excuse here*, etc.

Don't you think?

Yeah but I reckon the bullying would get worse as the child gets older, not in my school but the boys version, one boy was beaten and bullied all the time for being gay, right up until his parents took him out of school and put him on a homeschooling program.

Just a quick question are gay people allowed to adopt in the UK or USA?

Sonja
Aug 3rd, 2006, 10:01 PM
From Wikipedia:

Adoption by same-sex couples is legal in Andorra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium), England and Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_and_Wales), Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland), the Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands), South Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa), Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) and Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden). Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) and Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) allow "stepchild-adoption" so that the partner in a civil union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_union) can adopt the natural (or sometimes even adopted) child of his partner. In the Republic of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland) and some other countries, individual persons, whether heterosexual/homosexual, cohabiting/single may apply for adoption.

Within the U.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California), Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts), New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey), New Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico), New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York), Ohio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio), Vermont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont), Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington) state, Wisconsin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin), and Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_D.C.) allow adoption by same-sex couples. Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida) is the only state that completely prohibits adoption by same-sex couples. Mississippi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi), Oklahoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma), Colorado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado) and Utah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah) all make adoption by same-sex couples virtually impossible by only allowing married couples to adopt. Critics of such restrictive policies also point out that in many of the states that have bans on adoption by same-sex couples, these same couples are still able to act as foster parents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster_parent).

bionic71
Aug 3rd, 2006, 11:07 PM
ATM Raising a child in a gay relationship is a selfish agenda.:rolleyes:

I would beg to differ in my case. My partner and I have no agenda....other than to have a child. We have a stable long term relationship, sound jobs, a home, a caring involved extended family....we both desire to have children. Our child would be loved and cared for unconditionally.
I find your statements very offensive.

Scots Kim Fan
Aug 4th, 2006, 12:11 AM
I would beg to differ in my case. My partner and I have no agenda....other than to have a child. We have a stable long term relationship, sound jobs, a home, a caring involved extended family....we both desire to have children. Our child would be loved and cared for unconditionally.
I find your statements very offensive.

That's all a child needs. :)

Wigglytuff
Aug 4th, 2006, 12:22 AM
I would beg to differ in my case. My partner and I have no agenda....other than to have a child. We have a stable long term relationship, sound jobs, a home, a caring involved extended family....we both desire to have children. Our child would be loved and cared for unconditionally.
I find your statements very offensive.

:worship: :worship:

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 12:24 AM
I would beg to differ in my case. My partner and I have no agenda....other than to have a child. We have a stable long term relationship, sound jobs, a home, a caring involved extended family....we both desire to have children. Our child would be loved and cared for unconditionally.
I find your statements very offensive.

Bionic would you seriously put a child in a situation like this?

The gay movement has been a brilliant thing...I'm just over gay peeps continually pushing the boundries. I am over it myself as a gay man, lets give it some time!

I could think of nothing worse than trying to raise a child in a male-male or female-female environment at the mo. There are the exceptions and perhaps you are one of them. You would also have to agree that the majority of gay men are drug fucked selfish beings. I disagree with you only I guess to protect people like youreself.

At a time when religion in rampid, who would want to raise a child in that environment? I am continually told I would make a brilliant father...I'm happy with my Chia-Pet for the moment...most have "Shitzu-Maltese terriors". A gay lifestyle is no environment to raise at child...can I re-state "yet" again?

Appologies if I offended you, was not my aim here, just being honest with how I feel about it. As a gay man I certainly don't have to reform again. Yes I feel sorry for peeps like youreself and youre partner because I know you are a nice guy. The few percent that are doesn't cut it for me.

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 12:41 AM
Perhaps we could send them to school with a target on their back? This is life people not the fucking Oprah show! :rolleyes: Give it a few years. Some can't wait a few years I realise...shit happens.

I feel for the few couples that truely want a child as a "rubber stamp" on their relationship. There truely are some very average "straight" parents out there.

Back to origional post....it would be selfish to have a child that is going to have continual issues with who their parents are being adopted in the first place; then to say they are "special" or something and thrown into the blender of the gay scene. It makes little sense to me.

venus_rulez
Aug 4th, 2006, 01:05 AM
Perhaps we could send them to school with a target on their back? This is life people not the fucking Oprah show! :rolleyes: Give it a few years. Some can't wait a few years I realise...shit happens.

I feel for the few couples that truely want a child as a "rubber stamp" on their relationship. There truely are some very average "straight" parents out there.

Back to origional post....it would be selfish to have a child that is going to have continual issues with who their parents are being adopted in the first place; then to say they are "special" or something and thrown into the blender of the gay scene. It makes little sense to me.


We might as well keep children who are fat locked in the house as well, because kids get made fun for that, and we'll keep the young kids who wear glasses locked away too because kids who wear glasses get called four eyes, oh and the disabled kids should be kept under wraps too cause God knows the horrible things said about them as well. The point is children get teased at school and people get talked about behind their backs for things now even when they're "normal". As you put it, that's life and at some point, EVERYONE needs to develop a tough skin and say fuck what other people think of me, no matter thier situation. As far as "waiting a few years" Absolutely 100% not. The fact that gay people are having to fight for a basic right is sad in and of itself, sorry if it bothers you, but the time for waiting to be treated as an equal human being has long been over.

bionic71
Aug 4th, 2006, 01:47 AM
Bionic would you seriously put a child in a situation like this?

The gay movement has been a brilliant thing...I'm just over gay peeps continually pushing the boundries. I am over it myself as a gay man, lets give it some time!

I could think of nothing worse than trying to raise a child in a male-male or female-female environment at the mo. There are the exceptions and perhaps you are one of them. You would also have to agree that the majority of gay men are drug fucked selfish beings. I disagree with you only I guess to protect people like youreself.

At a time when religion in rampid, who would want to raise a child in that environment? I am continually told I would make a brilliant father...I'm happy with my Chia-Pet for the moment...most have "Shitzu-Maltese terriors". A gay lifestyle is no environment to raise at child...can I re-state "yet" again?

Appologies if I offended you, was not my aim here, just being honest with how I feel about it. As a gay man I certainly don't have to reform again. Yes I feel sorry for peeps like youreself and youre partner because I know you are a nice guy. The few percent that are doesn't cut it for me.

I disagree with your view that the majority of gay men are "drug fucked selfish beings"...my gay friends are far from that. Maybe this is your experience, but it is certainly not mine. Anyone, gay or straight, who is continually off their dial has no right to be having children...I am certain that an environment with two committed same sex parents is a far better option.

The term "gay lifestyle" has always been a problematic for me...as I have no idea what it actually means..."lifestyle"?....I always seem to picture IKEA for some reason...picnic settings, occasional furniture. Yet others seem to use to term to describe a frenzy of partying, drugs and sex....which couldn't be further from the reality of my life and the lives of the gay people that I know. A quiet Friday evening dinner, weekends at the beach, a good glass of red, some music and I am a pretty happy little camper...mundane maybe...yet accurate.

As for being involved in the "gay scene"...I did my disco biscuit routines between the ages of 18-21, and aside from the rare occasions that I may wander into a pub for a drink with friends...this is all but a faded memory.
I have never felt a need to run off into the gay ghettos....eating at gay only resturants, going to gay only clubs, buying the gay car....I grew up 5 mins from the city, the gay areas of town were places I went shopping as a kid with my parents...nothing special about the "gay scene" to me....it was just another facet of city life.

Children are teased bullied for a myriad of reasons.....fat, thin, glasses, slow runner, pimples, red hair, low income whatever.... I was teased for being gay....I survived....rather well I think....due to the love and support of my family, who always made me feel far above the insults.

The viewpoint that the children of same sex parents will be the brunt of additional teasing is mute as far as I am concerned....indicitive of an adult viewpoint about gay people rather than what the child is actual experiencing. Adults who are troubled by gay people, or the notion of gay people having children, often use this argument to support their stance.

I can find no evidence to suggest that children from same sex parental relationships are disadvantaged or the victims of excessive bullying etc. The only way to address potential bullying (of any kind) is for parents to foster tolerance, understanding and compassion in their children...qualities unfortunately lacking in far too many adults....children are exposed far too often to ignorant perspectives concerning gay people from their parents...via gross assumptions, fear and misinformation.

I teach several students who have parents in same sex relationships and the children are well adjusted adolescents, because their parents have sat and discussed the situation honestly and openly with their children (something that many parents fail to do)......One of my collegues has a daughter from a previous heterosexaul relationship...the daugher is a happy, confident, articulate teenager...no hang ups (aside from the usual boyfriend issues)...just your standard teenager.

I am confident that our family unit would compensate for any overt bullying that our child may or may not face....all any parent can do is provide a loving supportive home and hope for the best...just as my parents did.

Unfortunately many parents are ill-equipped to provide even the basics for their children...I can assure you that we would provide much more.

Paul.
Aug 4th, 2006, 01:53 AM
I could think of nothing worse than trying to raise a child in a male-male or female-female environment at the mo. There are the exceptions and perhaps you are one of them. You would also have to agree that the majority of gay men are drug fucked selfish beings. I disagree with you only I guess to protect people like youreself.



i would HAVE to agree that the majority are drug-fucked selfish beings?? are you kidding me?!
how dare you make that generalisation. i dont even have the enegy to do into the rest of what you said

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 03:59 AM
Bionic I agree with you. You are one of the few (obviously being an educator youreself) that would raise a child and allow that child their own existence.

Fact of the matter is, if every gay couple were like you and youre partner it would not be an issue. If you open the door to allow gay couples collectively to have children in their care then you have a travesty.

I feel sorry for you and youre partner but it's an open case for alot of gay men and women to abuse something that "yes" in theory should work. There are alot of disgusting gay men out there Bionic, let's not forget that fact here. There is no way to enforce that some can have children and not others. Ammendment is ammendment, as soon as we class who can and cannot have children we have a situation of bias yet again.

I threw the question through a gay chat lobby and everyone is also in favour as most here are. I just have issues with security of the child and the emotional damage. Kids are cruel, I see it happening, especially in Australia. Why throw a kid behind the 8-ball immediately? I know I'm going to be un-popular here with my view, I don't care really.

It is certainly an issue that needs discussion, however, I'm not waving the pride flag saying "woe is me". If the majority vote for this then it will open the door to a myriad of effects that we have not considered.

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:01 AM
i would HAVE to agree that the majority are drug-fucked selfish beings?? are you kidding me?!
how dare you make that generalisation. i dont even have the enegy to do into the rest of what you said

Am I the only one with my eyes open? :confused:

Wigglytuff
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:22 AM
Am I the only one with my eyes open? :confused:
no, you are a fool full of stereotypes and ignorance.... which is fine, but when you claim otherwise, that is annoying.

bionic71
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:27 AM
There are alot of disgusting gay men out there Bionic, let's not forget that fact here.

I threw the question through a gay chat lobby and everyone is also in favour as most here are. I just have issues with security of the child and the emotional damage. Kids are cruel, I see it happening, especially in Australia. Why throw a kid behind the 8-ball immediately? I know I'm going to be un-popular here with my view, I don't care really.


There are a lot of disgusting people in general...whether they are gay, straight or somewhere in between.
The issue of parenting should have absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation though.....adoption rights should be granted if a couple can prove that they fit all criteria....emotional and financial...
As a couple, we fit all neccessary criteria....there is no justification for us not being able to adopt...other than that we happen to be in a same sex relationship. We can foster children...but once again this is a second rate option that I am not willing to accept. If we are good enough to foster, then surely we are good enough to adopt....

Your posts seem to suggest that every gay man...notably those who are still circumnavigating (pardon the pun) the dodgy backroom scenes are somehow going to be running off to adoption agencies...this is surely exaggeration on your behalf....I cannot see this happening.

The adoption process is long and arduous and many legitimate and potentially wonderful parents are unabable to cope with the waiting.

Kids can be cruel for sure as you suggest, I know this first hand....but adults are far worse and children learn and repeat anti gay attitudes and sentiment passed down from their parents.

Acknowlegement of gay unions and/or marriage and allowing same sex couples to apply for adoption should they wish will help address the notion that gay people are somehow second rate citizens.
Not having access to marriage and adoption continues to reinforce the notion that somehow gay people are all unsavoury...and simply reinforces much of tthe misinformation that already surrounds gay people.

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:06 AM
no, you are a fool full of stereotypes and ignorance.... which is fine, but when you claim otherwise, that is annoying.

WTF? :rolleyes: I can only speak from what I have seen, and heard. If you think there is not a drug issue in the gay culture then perhaps I should show you around a few clubs. I am the ignorant one? Is that a stereo-type or reality. Is it not also a reality that alot of gay men and women are so consumed with their sexuality and feeling of "lost privy" they would have a child to prove a point? This is the real world Jiggly!

mandy7
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:22 AM
you think there aren't any drugs in clubs where straight people hang out?
and your body may live in melbourne, which is part of the real world,
but your disfunctional mind lives on it's own planet :)

James
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:31 AM
Ohh nasty piece of batter are we not? Hit a point?:lol:

Gay relationships are not recognised yet, why would child bearing come before that. Grow up!

At the age of 30 I am pretty grown up, thank you. Try not to be lame when you answer, first I needed to go out more, then I need to grow up. You judge gay couples, then judge me. I am not sure what your game is, but I can't make any sense of your posts.

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:32 AM
Bionic, as I said if every couple were like you and youre partner there would be no issue. The issue is about advantage.

Yes it is a rigourous process to adopt, but the whole topic is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is a gay couple are not going to be seen as a "balanced" candidate for a child at the moment. I know fully well that there are some couples that would make brilliant parents, however, those select few, that is synonomous with gay culture will tarnish the right for someone like youreself to be able to.

I do see youre point Bionic, I honestly do, and I hope one day you have the opportunity to fulfill a childs needs. I just don't think we are at a time yet that makes this viable. The dirty old men will die soon, then I will support gay partners having children.

I, personally, would choose not to have a child after establishing a sound relationship. That is my choice. You should have the choice as well I know.

This is not an issue of gay rights, this is about what is best for the child. At the moment any child is going to be better suited to a straight couple. We both know there are going to be squillions adopting for the wrong reason if it were to ever pass.

UncleZeke
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:36 AM
I'm straight. I don't have a problem with it.

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:40 AM
you think there aren't any drugs in clubs where straight people hang out?
and your body may live in melbourne, which is part of the real world,
but your disfunctional mind lives on it's own planet :)

Obviously appears you can't have a diverse view on this board. :confused: Yes I have made some comments in my posts that may be construed as "sweeping generalisations", or perhaps it's the truth.;) It bites...it aint pretty...or should we all float along and think all gays are going to make brilliant parents?

The gay movement is definately about voiding segregation, but it's a piece at a time. There are too many gay men and women that are about "keeping up with the Jones'". What restrictions would be enforced?

Do you really think an adoption agency will choose a gay couple over a straight couple anyhow? Not yet. It will happen but not yet.

James
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:40 AM
To save myself time, I agree fully with Shane (Bionic71 in case you don't know). His articualate posts are a must read for everyone educating themselves on this topic. :yeah:

Milito22
Aug 4th, 2006, 05:41 AM
why Not? I Want To Be Adopted :hehehe:

>>krew<<
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:02 AM
fuck yeah, why not? having kids is one of the best things in life, so they shouldn't be deprived of it

Erika_Angel
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:10 AM
I can't see how a gay couple who go to the trouble to undergo the whole adoption process, who obviously want a child, who want to care for it and love it, could possibly be bad parents. In contrast with some $2 slut whose bf forgot to use a condom, thus bringing a child into a disfunctional, underpriviliged lifestyle; that is bad parenting - and it has nothing to do with the gender of the parents, but of their maturity level as a couple and as parents.

Kirt12255
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:14 AM
:rolleyes: The sheeple have arrived...I'm done with this thread.:rolleyes:

In conclusion...yes Gay's should be able to adopt, just not yet. I think most people seemed to miss that point of mine.

Bionic I hope you get the chance one day, I'm sure you would make a great dad.;)

James
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:18 AM
:rolleyes: The sheeple have arrived...I'm done with this thread.:rolleyes:

In conclusion...yes Gay's should be able to adopt, just not yet. I think most people seemed to miss that point of mine.

Bionic I hope you get the chance one day, I'm sure you would make a great dad.;)

I got that point, even hidden under a huge stack of generalisations. ;)

bionic71
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:19 AM
This is not an issue of gay rights, this is about what is best for the child. At the moment any child is going to be better suited to a straight couple. We both know there are going to be squillions adopting for the wrong reason if it were to ever pass.

I have always wanted children..so my decision has little to do with gay rights whatsoever....We are in a situation where we are financially and emotionally prepared to offer a child a loving caring home...nothing more, nothing less.
The issue is that we are excluded on one fact...that we are a gay couple...so that unfortunately turns it ino a gay rights/discrimination issue.

The irony is that I am able to adopt as a single man (if I was financially able)...as long I was not living in a same sex situation....make sense of that one! Yet, because we are a stable, openly gay couple we are denied access....so it indeed becomes a gay rights issue once again.

I must disagree that a child is "better suited" to a straight couple and that a gay couple is not a "balanced" option.....sexual orientation has nothing to do with providing a solid family environment. I am not even going to touch the term "balanced"..it is loaded at best and considering the myriad of families that I encounter in my job I can assure that my partner and I are indeed a balanced and preferable option.

And again I must disagree that "squillions" will be adopting for the wrong reasons...it is a nonsensical notion.

Your opinion is of course respected...but I am failing to see real validity in much of it.

venus_rulez
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:28 AM
I have always wanted children..so my decision has nothing to do with gay rights whatsoever....I must disagree that a child is "better suited" to a straight couple.....sexual orientation has nothing to do with providing a solid family environment.

And again I must disagree that "squillions" will be adopting for the wrong reasons...it is a nonsensical notion.

Your opinion is of course respected...but I am failing to see real validity in much of it.

Even if in theory children are better off with a mom and a dad, I would counter by saying there are plenty of children with only one parent, or with same sex parents and plenty of children with both a mother and father who are drop outs and on drugs to where it's not a significant difference; certainly not significant enough to deny people rights based on it.

Randy H
Aug 4th, 2006, 06:39 AM
Obviously appears you can't have a diverse view on this board. :confused: Yes I have made some comments in my posts that may be construed as "sweeping generalisations", or perhaps it's the truth.;) It bites...it aint pretty...or should we all float along and think all gays are going to make brilliant parents?

The gay movement is definately about voiding segregation, but it's a piece at a time. There are too many gay men and women that are about "keeping up with the Jones'". What restrictions would be enforced?

Do you really think an adoption agency will choose a gay couple over a straight couple anyhow? Not yet. It will happen but not yet.

I really don't know whereabouts in your series of posts to even begin, but I have to say that I find your immensely stereotypical opinions to be vastly exaggerated, insulting, harmful, and plain and simply concerning.

Not all gay people are drug users, alcoholics, promiscuous, excessive party-goers. In fact many are none of these things at all. Just because those things may be reflective of your life, or people around you, does not mean this speaks for the rest of us. Some of us are trying to show others (some of whom have never even met a gay person, and their knowledge is limited to stereotype) that we do not all fit the perception that they have been taught or told to believe. Views like this only add fuel to a long-burning fire.

As for the actual topic of adoption, again, perhaps *your* gay lifestyle is not suitable to be raising children. Thankfully for them, you seem to have no intentions to do so. That does not mean that others are not entirely capable, and do not have a stable and healthy environment to raise kids. If gay adoption were legal, that does not mean that all gay people are going to adopt, and certainly not to just 'prove a point'. Give me a break. It is a long and difficult process to adopt a child, and those who have the desire to do so, must go through a long series of examination to prove that they are financially, physically *and* mentally/emotionally ready and capable to do it. Because of this, not every gay couple, just like not every straight couple, is going to be allowed to adopt children unless they can adequately show that they are fit to. This may mean only a small percentage of gay couples will be accepted, but I highly doubt that the percentage of accepted straight people to adopt is a soaring ratio compared to the amount who are denied.

Nobody here is saying all gay people are or would make great parents, or that they should all be automatically given a child. The point is that there are *some* who absolutely would be great parents, and should be allowed to adopt. Maybe that number is only 5% as you seem to say, but why should the number even matter? 5% means that 5% more children without a loving family will have the love and support and security to grow into well-adjusted adults. To me, it seems far more selfish to deny that 5% the unconditional love that they could be given.

Wigglytuff
Aug 4th, 2006, 07:04 AM
WTF? :rolleyes: I can only speak from what I have seen, and heard. If you think there is not a drug issue in the gay culture then perhaps I should show you around a few clubs. I am the ignorant one? Is that a stereo-type or reality. Is it not also a reality that alot of gay men and women are so consumed with their sexuality and feeling of "lost privy" they would have a child to prove a point? This is the real world Jiggly!
:lol: :lol:

ignorance and stereotyping at its finest. :lol: :lol:

im NOT trying to talk reason with you, just letting you know what MY opinion of you is.

Wigglytuff
Aug 4th, 2006, 07:07 AM
I really don't know whereabouts in your series of posts to even begin, but I have to say that I find your immensely stereotypical opinions to be vastly exaggerated, insulting, harmful, and plain and simply concerning.

Not all gay people are drug users, alcoholics, promiscuous, excessive party-goers. In fact many are none of these things at all. Just because those things may be reflective of your life, or people around you, does not mean this speaks for the rest of us. Some of us are trying to show others (some of whom have never even met a gay person, and their knowledge is limited to stereotype) that we do not all fit the perception that they have been taught or told to believe. Views like this only add fuel to a long-burning fire.

As for the actual topic of adoption, again, perhaps *your* gay lifestyle is not suitable to be raising children. Thankfully for them, you seem to have no intentions to do so. That does not mean that others are not entirely capable, and do not have a stable and healthy environment to raise kids. If gay adoption were legal, that does not mean that all gay people are going to adopt, and certainly not to just 'prove a point'. Give me a break. It is a long and difficult process to adopt a child, and those who have the desire to do so, must go through a long series of examination to prove that they are financially, physically *and* mentally/emotionally ready and capable to do it. Because of this, not every gay couple, just like not every straight couple, is going to be allowed to adopt children unless they can adequately show that they are fit to. This may mean only a small percentage of gay couples will be accepted, but I highly doubt that the percentage of accepted straight people to adopt is a soaring ratio compared to the amount who are denied.

Nobody here is saying all gay people are or would make great parents, or that they should all be automatically given a child. The point is that there are *some* who absolutely would be great parents, and should be allowed to adopt. Maybe that number is only 5% as you seem to say, but why should the number even matter? 5% means that 5% more children without a loving family will have the love and support and security to grow into well-adjusted adults. To me, it seems far more selfish to deny that 5% the unconditional love that they could be given.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Ferosh
Aug 5th, 2006, 02:29 AM
Indiana high court lets gay adoption stand



Fri Aug 4, 6:57 PM ET INDIANAPOLIS - Indiana's Supreme Court let stand a ruling that allows unmarried couples, including those of the same sex, to adopt children through a joint petition that gives both partners equal custody.


In a 4-1 decision posted Friday, the high court refused to hear arguments in the case. That left in tact the April ruling by the Indiana Court of Appeals, which had overturned a lower court's ruling that state law limits adoption to married couples and individuals.

"The court acknowledged that two people can create a caring, stable, loving home for children without being married," said Patricia Logue, senior counsel for Lambda Legal's Midwest office in Chicago. "Not only is this a decision that will keep our clients' family intact, but this is a victory for the thousands of children in Indiana desperately in need of a caring home."

Logue represented a lesbian couple from Morgan County whose 2004 attempt to adopt a baby girl was approved by a judge in one county but denied by a judge in another.

Attorney General Steve Carter had hoped the state's highest court would overturn the 2-1 appeals ruling.

Carter's aides did not return messages left Friday by The Associated Press.


:bigclap: Bravo!