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View Full Version : A more basic question - what's wrong with taking drugs?


abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 09:44 PM
Why do you guys think doping is bad?
Harm to their own body?
Unfair?
Bad role models?

Please think carefully and answer.

Uranus
Aug 1st, 2006, 09:50 PM
:eek:

LH2HBH
Aug 1st, 2006, 09:58 PM
I like that you're thinking outside the box but here's what i think.

Sport is supposed to be a challenge of mind and body. Who's the best? Who can beat who? Who's shot's are amazing and who has the fastest serve and is the quickest around the court? We need to know as sport fans that this is the person doing it not the drug.

In short, how would we know who is the best or simply who has the best drugs?

I believe it goes against everything that sport stands for.

abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:23 PM
You can't excel in a sport just by taking the best drugs. You still have to train exceptionally hard. Drugs is merely acting as a supplement here. It's almost akin to having a great diet, which per se, is not going to lead to exceptional performance.

So while I am sympathetic to your argument, I am not entirely convinced by it.


I like that you're thinking outside the box but here's what i think.

Sport is supposed to be a challenge of mind and body. Who's the best? Who can beat who? Who's shot's are amazing and who has the fastest serve and is the quickest around the court? We need to know as sport fans that this is the person doing it not the drug.

In short, how would we know who is the best or simply who has the best drugs?

I believe it goes against everything that sport stands for.

njtennis11
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:26 PM
The problem with is it that you are cheating, its a rule and you're disobeying it. By taking drugs you aren't improving on your own, you are using an illegal aide to help you. There's no reason anyone should or has to take any illegal substance when they can rechieve similar if not the same results naturally.

PLP
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:30 PM
Intersting question really...There is the moral question, and of course it is cheating because you are not at a level playing fied with the players that are drug free...but genetics plays a huge role too. I hink the biggest problem is the cheating aspect, but there are many drugs that these athletes can't take like psuedophedrine (SP? sorry!) that I think they should be able to take, the whole thing is a bit overboard IMHO>P

liuxuan
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:30 PM
this is just the most rediculous thread i have ever come acros......EVER!!!!!!!!

omg, are you a fucking retard??? ii dunno why im even asking that question!!!

taking performance enhancing drugs is obviously wqrong. sure, players still need to train hard, but they are getting illegal assistance and unfair advantage over their opponent. sport is supposed to be whose can pull the most out of their body and perform to the highest level... on a LEVEL playing field! someone who has taken drugs to enhance their muscle mass or stamina or whatever is clearly not on a level playing field to someone who has not taken any drugs.

its like giving someone a head start in a race, i know thats a really simple way of putting it, but its true! the thought of watching an unfair conmtest out there because one of the players i admire and respect has cheated by taking drugs just disgusts me!

steroids and performance enhancing drgs are for LOSERS!

having said that, if your not a tennis player but a yoiung party monster like myself, a few XTC while your out clubbing at the weekend is a kick up the ass that is most welcome! :devil: :bounce:

abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:31 PM
Fair point. But then a lot of rules are arbitrary and eventually go away.
For example, as per rules, some of the modern rackets couldn't be used in tennis in the old days. It, eventually didn't make a lot of sense to continue with this rule. So the rule disappeared.

Would taking illegal substance follow a similar path?




The problem with is it that you are cheating, its a rule and you're disobeying it. By taking drugs you aren't improving on your own, you are using an illegal aide to help you. There's no reason anyone should or has to take any illegal substance when they can rechieve similar if not the same results naturally.

franny
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:33 PM
Why is using a drug like steroids bad? When you get to a certain level of professional sports, the argument that "You can't excel in a sport just by taking the best drugs" just does not hold true anymore. Truth is, everyone near the top trains so hard and are so good at what they do that something such as drugs can make the biggest difference in who wins a slam, who can last longer in a match, who becomes stronger. True, one that takes drugs must still work hard, but someone else who works just as hard and is not taking the drugs, will be less successful. So then bids the next question, why should something like affording the better coach be legal and buying the more effective drugs(steroids) not? Well, it's because drugs such as steroids have a proven side effect to them. If we get to the point where all our top athletes are expected to use drugs, and that all aspiring athletes are encouraged to use drugs, then we simply lead the sporting community and all of society quite frankly into what can become a very serious health issue. It's just not worth it. It's better to take away extraneous drugs that have such harmful effects as steroids and make it illegal and expect athletes to simply train on their own, with their own bodies, and with LEGAL supplements than to allow harmful supplements and allow that to be the dividen between a world number 1 and a world number 2.

abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:34 PM
Not sure I understood your genetics point. As for a level playing field, why not just allow everyone? Then whoever has means, access and desire to drugs can take it.

If you are talking about level playing field in terms of not everyone can afford drugs, then that applies to a lot of things such as not every sportsperson can afford the same quality of training, nutrition, equipment...

Intersting question really...There is the moral question, and of course it is cheating because you are not at a level playing fied with the players that are drug free...but genetics plays a huge role too. I hink the biggest problem is the cheating aspect, but there are many drugs that these athletes can't take like psuedophedrine (SP? sorry!) that I think they should be able to take, the whole thing is a bit overboard IMHO>P

abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:36 PM
Surely you dont deserve an answer.
this is just the most rediculous thread i have ever come acros......EVER!!!!!!!!

omg, are you a fucking retard??? ii dunno why im even asking that question!!!

taking performance enhancing drugs is obviously wqrong. sure, players still need to train hard, but they are getting illegal assistance and unfair advantage over their opponent. sport is supposed to be whose can pull the most out of their body and perform to the highest level... on a LEVEL playing field! someone who has taken drugs to enhance their muscle mass or stamina or whatever is clearly not on a level playing field to someone who has not taken any drugs.

its like giving someone a head start in a race, i know thats a really simple way of putting it, but its true! the thought of watching an unfair conmtest out there because one of the players i admire and respect has cheated by taking drugs just disgusts me!

steroids and performance enhancing drgs are for LOSERS!

having said that, if your not a tennis player but a yoiung party monster like myself, a few XTC while your out clubbing at the weekend is a kick up the ass that is most welcome! :devil: :bounce:

fufuqifuqishahah
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:37 PM
I like that you're thinking outside the box but here's what i think.

Sport is supposed to be a challenge of mind and body. Who's the best? Who can beat who? Who's shot's are amazing and who has the fastest serve and is the quickest around the court? We need to know as sport fans that this is the person doing it not the drug.



That's why they NEED to remove COACHING DURING MATCHES!!!!!!!!!!! ugh lol.

-----

but anyways.... these are my reasons AGAINST drug use in sports

1) they are unhealthy and can cause some major problems in players, possibly hurting their longevity and
2) it is unfair to players who can't afford drugs. True, the poor players can't afford other things that could potentially improve their performance on court (i.e. expensive coaches, hitting partners, personal assistants, super high quality food) , however, drugs tend to have a much more direct effect on performance rather than these other things.
3) bad role models like you said :). These people are in the media and are idoloized by many. If everyone started doing drugs in professional sports, surely this will trickle down to the amateur level and the university and high school levels, etc. Sports are so ingrained in many cultures that even those who don't play sports will be more likely to take drugs because they'll start doubt the harmful effects of drugs. They'll think, "if athletes, who look really healthy, can take drugs and do outstanding athletic feats then I should be able to take drugs and still do my normal things in life"
4) it supports the illegal drug trade industry. if the drug trade industry were like most other industries like the music industry, real estate industry, whatever, where there doesn't exist much direct harm to people because the industry is not corrupt, clean, and not violent, then maybe this reason wouldn't be here. but the drug trade industry IS messy and corrupt and vile, and horrible.
5) using performance enhancing drugs could promote the use of other, non-performance enhancing drugs.... which of course, can be very dangerous.

hablo
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:39 PM
1)Bad side effects later on in life, getting sicknesses, and also dying young/prematurily (for instance : "flo-jo").
These drugs are supposed to be taken to cure, heal certain sicknesses, not when you are healthy and fit in the first place :shrug:
2) and it's CHEATING, not fair to the other competitors.

abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:40 PM
Is the health issue really that big? Experts from what I have read tend to suggest that risks are not that high. I mean the health risk from boxing is probably worse. How about the risk from skiing down a mountain? Risk from subjecting your body to inhuman training? Look at all the WTA athletes... They already have rather frail bodies? Should training be banned then?

Why is using a drug like steroids bad? When you get to a certain level of professional sports, the argument that "You can't excel in a sport just by taking the best drugs" just does not hold true anymore. Truth is, everyone near the top trains so hard and are so good at what they do that something such as drugs can make the biggest difference in who wins a slam, who can last longer in a match, who becomes stronger. True, one that takes drugs must still work hard, but someone else who works just as hard and is not taking the drugs, will be less successful. So then bids the next question, why should something like affording the better coach be legal and buying the more effective drugs(steroids) not? Well, it's because drugs such as steroids have a proven side effect to them. If we get to the point where all our top athletes are expected to use drugs, and that all aspiring athletes are encouraged to use drugs, then we simply lead the sporting community and all of society quite frankly into what can become a very serious health issue. It's just not worth it. It's better to take away extraneous drugs that have such harmful effects as steroids and make it illegal and expect athletes to simply train on their own, with their own bodies, and with LEGAL supplements than to allow harmful supplements and allow that to be the dividen between a world number 1 and a world number 2.

Winnie
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:43 PM
Is the health issue really that big? Experts from what I have read tend to suggest that risks are not that high. I mean the health risk from boxing is probably worse. How about the risk from skiing down a mountain? Risk from subjecting your body to inhuman training? Look at all the WTA athletes... They already have rather frail bodies? Should training be banned then?
So,good luck to your health...

égalité
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:44 PM
It's like knowing some of the answers prior to a test. You get better results without putting in as much time and effort.

abayen
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:45 PM
Winnie, it's not about the risk to my health. It's about the risk relative to other risks associated with the sport...

So,good luck to your health...

venus_rulez
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:45 PM
this is just the most rediculous thread i have ever come acros......EVER!!!!!!!!

omg, are you a fucking retard??? ii dunno why im even asking that question!!!

taking performance enhancing drugs is obviously wqrong. sure, players still need to train hard, but they are getting illegal assistance and unfair advantage over their opponent. sport is supposed to be whose can pull the most out of their body and perform to the highest level... on a LEVEL playing field! someone who has taken drugs to enhance their muscle mass or stamina or whatever is clearly not on a level playing field to someone who has not taken any drugs.

its like giving someone a head start in a race, i know thats a really simple way of putting it, but its true! the thought of watching an unfair conmtest out there because one of the players i admire and respect has cheated by taking drugs just disgusts me!

steroids and performance enhancing drgs are for LOSERS!

having said that, if your not a tennis player but a yoiung party monster like myself, a few XTC while your out clubbing at the weekend is a kick up the ass that is most welcome! :devil: :bounce:



Interesting, so taking an illegal substance in a sport is wrong and anyone is stupid for suggesting or even thinking differently, but taking a dangerous drug, that is also illegal in your everyday life is ok....RIGHT.

Winnie
Aug 1st, 2006, 10:53 PM
Winnie, it's not about the risk to my health. It's about the risk relative to other risks associated with the sport...
The risk that you talk,it's "normal risk",more moral than taking drugs,I think because you accept the fact to die by natural consequence.Like in the daily life,you can walk and be crashed by a car...stuffs like that.But by taking drugs,you know that you attent to your life by not "natural" consequence,and for the human mind,it's not "moral".And i agree with that,you know that you destroy you and you can never change that.You know that you "make die yourself"...

franny
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:00 PM
Is the health issue really that big? Experts from what I have read tend to suggest that risks are not that high. I mean the health risk from boxing is probably worse. How about the risk from skiing down a mountain? Risk from subjecting your body to inhuman training? Look at all the WTA athletes... They already have rather frail bodies? Should training be banned then?

I think that at this point, you need to go research it. From the classes I have taken, the health issue really is quite problematic. Especially for young teens. I think that for younger aspiring athletes, taking drugs when your body is simply not ready to receive them(and it happens a lot. Why else would young aspiring athletes take drugs? It's to help them get bigger and stronger). Drugs simply speed up the growth of certain muscles and staminas in your body. But we must remember that our bodies grow and develop at its own pace. Using drugs is like forcing your body to do things that it normally cannot do. When this happens, your body will eventually break down due to it. If professional athletes do it, then it will encourage younger athletes to do it as well. The health hazards are too great with drugs.

You are right, it's the same with inhumane training. Look what happened to Justine and her virus. And now she has to back off. Inhumane training should also be illegal, but then how can you make that illegal? You cannot tell people not to train a certain amount as there is no way to enforce that. You cannot test for how much a certain person has trained. You can test for when a person has taken drugs. The system is imperfect, but we must do what we can to at the very least lower the health hazard to the body. We must take it one step at a time. You cannot use the argument, well X is allowed and it is just as bad as Y, so we should allow Y. That is quite the fallacy and a very illogical argument. You'd be better using the argument, X is just as bad as Y, so why is X allowed? Well, I told you why X is allowed. Does that mean we must allow Y too? Accept both evils? No, we must eliminate Y and find ways to eliminate X, which the many health organizations are trying to do. We are constantly trying to encourage athletes not to go too far.

As for boxing and mountain climbing, you cannot cross-compare sports. Compare the risks of drugs in boxing to the sport of boxing, the risks of drugs in mountain-climbing to the sport of mountain climbing, but you cannot say that "mountain climbing" is more dangerous than steroids and yet mountain climbing is allow so why shouldn't drugs be. Again, it is an illogical argument.

Btw, I think you are doing a really great job with being a devils advocate. However, I think that if you truly believe in your own arguments, then you need to make an extensive medical research into the hazards of drugs and of course look into the official arguments that have been issued by the various international anti-drugs and doping organizations.

LH2HBH
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:14 PM
sport ( P ) (spôrt, sprt)
n.

1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of this activity.
3. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

Rules are rules. This is a moral argument and it may be OK for you to take performance enhancing drugs but is not OK for professional athletes to take them. It makes the playing field uneven (at best), is harmful to your body, sets a bad example for children (professional athletes are often role models), and I think, most importantly, is not in the spirit of the game.

Sports are supposed to be a test of what your made of, not what is made in a laboratory.

LH2HBH
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:17 PM
By the way.... thank you to the thread starter for starting a very thought provoking thread.

I would like to come out and ask if he/she actually believes they should be allowed or if they just wanted to start an interesting debate.

vogus
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:33 PM
Why do you guys think doping is bad?
Harm to their own body?
Unfair?
Bad role models?




none of the above.

the reason doping has to be prohibited is that if it were allowed without any restriction, doping would quickly become MANDATORY for those wishing to have a career in professional sports. It wouldn't be a choice any more. Those who didn't dope would not be able to compete.

Martian Willow
Aug 1st, 2006, 11:58 PM
Interesting, so taking an illegal substance in a sport is wrong and anyone is stupid for suggesting or even thinking differently, but taking a dangerous drug, that is also illegal in your everyday life is ok....RIGHT.

He gave logical reasons why its wrong to take drugs in sport, which don't apply to social situations. There is no contradiction.

vogus
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:13 AM
the thread starter got out of town as soon as a couple people presented serious arguments - i guess that wasn't what he wanted to hear...

sfselesfan
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:35 AM
Drugs in sports = unfair. (at least in most sports)

Drugs for recreation should be a choice...not illegal. People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies...jost not in professional athletic competition.

SF

spencercarlos
Aug 2nd, 2006, 12:47 AM
the thread starter got out of town as soon as a couple people presented serious arguments - i guess that wasn't what he wanted to hear...
A different story would be if there would be no rule about it and let people take whatever they want, but i doubt it pretty much because of the health risks for athletes.
Example read this small article about Red Bull.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1435409.stm

abayen go here and read more opinions about this
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/open_thread/2006/07/should_we_let_athletes_use_per.html

:wavey:

SM
Aug 2nd, 2006, 04:20 AM
whats wrong with taken drugs? well i usually go back to the saying... everrything is ok in moderation.. doesnt justify the morality of taking the drug itself.. but i guess what im trying to say that as long as the drug is used for recreational purposes which i do myself.. hehe... NOT for addiction and a form to help the body function .. u drift away from reality...