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mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:15 PM
Every single semi-final she legitimately lost (not counting AO 06, which we will never know who legitimately won,) she has lost to the eventual champion.

I still think AO 05 changed her career in a bad way.

squig2k
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:19 PM
maria has the potential to win slams but if shes facing the one player whos better than her, she tends to fall up

VivalaSeles
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:21 PM
(not counting AO 06, which we will never know who legitimately won,) :haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::h aha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::hah a::haha::haha::haha::haha:The Jay Leno of the WTA board !

johnoo
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:23 PM
I still think AO 05 changed her career in a bad way.
more crap typed by you.

Rome
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:28 PM
I love maria she is a good player

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Every single semi-final she legitimately lost (not counting AO 06, which we will never know who legitimately won,) she has lost to the eventual champion.

I still think AO 05 changed her career in a bad way.what happened in the AO '06.

goldenlox
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Every single semi-final she legitimately lost (not counting AO 06, which we will never know who legitimately won,) she has lost to the eventual champion.

I still think AO 05 changed her career in a bad way.What is Maria's record against Amelie, Justine and Kim?
She's 0-4 against them at the majors.

That's not a knock on Maria. She's just not as good a player as they are.

Maria volleys like a weekend hacker

tennnisfannn
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:29 PM
meanwhile spare a thought to daniela who has lost to the eventual champion more times than anyone cares to remember.

SelesFan70
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:31 PM
meanwhile spare a thought to daniela who has lost to the eventual champion more times than anyone cares to remember.

;)

50Sense
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:34 PM
Oh trust, she won't be the Semi-final queen much longer. She has to be chomping at the bit to get into another final. She'll break through soon, and I think she'll scare the hell out of everyone else when she does.

goldenlox
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:38 PM
Oh trust, she won't be the Semi-final queen much longer. She has to be chomping at the bit to get into another final. She'll break through soon, and I think she'll scare the hell out of everyone else when she does.She doesn't scare anyone. Sveta can't wait to face Maria again.

Annoy with the loud noises, yes. Scare, no

Jasmin
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:42 PM
After she won Wimby everyone knew who she was and her game. I know she legitimately lost the AO 05 semifinal to Serena but what happened AO 06?

50Sense
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:43 PM
She doesn't scare anyone. Sveta can't wait to face Maria again.

Annoy with the loud noises, yes. Scare, no

You've got to be kidding. I don't even like Sharapova. In fact, she might be my least favorite player on tour. But I know when someone is showing signs of greatness. And that's exactly what she's doing.

At 19 years old, she's been a slew of Grand Slams semifinals. Give her two more years. And those semi-final losses will be a distant memory. I don't even like acknowledging her potential but I thought it was clear to just about everyone. Apparently it's not :confused: :lol:

ezekiel
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:46 PM
maybe if she stops getting cushy draws till semis she will be more in form against top players :shrug:

goldenlox
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Potential? She's played 8 majors since her one slam win.
She's a good solid player, who Dinara beat at RG, and Moscow

A losing record against Myskina and Kuznetsova

up!
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:49 PM
I still think AO 05 changed her career in a bad way.

Absolutely :fiery:

goldenlox
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:50 PM
maybe if she stops getting cushy draws till semis she will be more in form against top players :shrug:She makes those draws look easy, because she is so tough for the players outside the top 20 to finish off.

But when she faces the best 5 or 6, you see how one dimensional Maria is.

She needs a fast surface for her serve, and even then,
the top players break her often

And if the points don't end quick, Maria implodes with wild UE's

50Sense
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:51 PM
Potential? She's played 8 majors since her one slam win.
She's a good solid player, who Dinara beat at RG, and Moscow

A losing record against Myskina and Kuznetsova

So of course that means there's no hope in her future because she has a losing record to players in the Top 20? She might as well pack her bags n go back to Russia, right? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah, she's played 8 majors since 2004 wimbledon. And reached the semifinals of 5 of them. I can't think of any other players who has done that consistently well. Where's Kuznetsova and Myskina and Dinara in that mix?

Pureracket
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:54 PM
My biggest fear for Maria Sharapova is that players like Nicole Vaidisova, Dinara Safina, Jamea Jackson are not going to sit around and wait for Maria Sharapova to develop into that Grand Slam champion that people want her to be.

goldenlox
Jul 8th, 2006, 05:57 PM
Yeah, she's played 8 majors since 2004 wimbledon. And reached the semifinals of 5 of them. I can't think of any other players who has done that consistently well. Where's Kuznetsova and Myskina and Dinara in that mix?Kuznetsova has a US Open win and a FO final in the last 8 majors.

And she has a coach, in fact - a few of them.

Sharapova has her dad and hitting partner. And instincts :p

SoClose
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:06 PM
maybe if she stops getting cushy draws till semis she will be more in form against top players :shrug:

Agree

new-york
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Losing to Serena, Venus, Kim, Amélie, Justine. To beat them in a slam seminfinal is though.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:10 PM
what happened in the AO '06.


yeah, I want to know too.

Andrew..
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:12 PM
I would be more concerned about how she loses in these semifinals. She hasn't been in a winning position in any of them since the 2005 AO.

Kart
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:24 PM
what happened in the AO '06.

I think he's alluding to the final being cut short by Justine's withdrawl.

Kart
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:30 PM
To the topic in hand, Maria seems to me to be suffering from a lack of direction in her game - particularly since Wimbledon last year.

She's using drop shots, slices and bad volleys to add variety, all of which draws her away from her strength which is hitting hard and consistently from the baseline and breaking her opponents down.

Adding extra shots to her game is of course important but she seems a bit confused on when to use them.

Maybe it's just that she needs a bit more experience I don't know.

vwfan
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:30 PM
I think he's alluding to the final being cut short by Justine's withdrawl.but what does that have to do with Maria?

Kart
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:33 PM
^ Due to the fact that Justine withdrew we'll never know who would have won and been the 'legitimate' eventual champion I'd imagine is the reasoning.

Just a way of qualifying Maria losing to Justine rather than the actual Oz open champion Amelie in that tournament.

Hence keeping the 'Maria only loses to the eventual champion' argument alive.

Jasmin
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:35 PM
My biggest fear for Maria Sharapova is that players like Nicole Vaidisova, Dinara Safina, Jamea Jackson are not going to sit around and wait for Maria Sharapova to develop into that Grand Slam champion that people want her to be.

Not fearful but I agree. I think once the top players move on Maria has more of a chance but then you have Safina, Nicole and a few others coming up will be improving too so who knows.

dagamezbest
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:35 PM
Alot of people on are saying things like "give maria 2 more years she'll be a champion..." well I've got news for you. Great players dont get greatness with age. they decline. Maria has seen her peak I believe. In 2 years you are right she will not be making the semis of grandslams....she will be going out in the 4th round or earlier.

goldenlox
Jul 8th, 2006, 06:37 PM
It's impossible to predict a player's future results.
Maria has a great mind.
She might need a coach

~CANUCK~
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:26 PM
I think he's alluding to the final being cut short by Justine's withdrawl.
No he is talking about the 2 really bad line calls against masha in that semi. But thats a poor excuss becoz Juju also had bad lines calls in that match. Would the match have turned out differently had the calls not been so bad, perhaps, but i don't think she lost coz of them.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Uhum....that loss against Serena, really was crushing. Never been the same again in big matches.

Reuchlin
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Alot of people on are saying things like "give maria 2 more years she'll be a champion..." well I've got news for you. Great players dont get greatness with age. they decline. Maria has seen her peak I believe. In 2 years you are right she will not be making the semis of grandslams....she will be going out in the 4th round or earlier.
I suggest you look at the careers of Lindsay Davenport and Amelie Mauresmo.

Il Primo!
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Consedering how young she is, she will rebounce very soon. Don't count off Sharapova

johnoo
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:42 PM
I suggest you look at the careers of Lindsay Davenport and Amelie Mauresmo.
so true especially Amelie :)

jacobruiz
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:44 PM
Alot of people on are saying things like "give maria 2 more years she'll be a champion..." well I've got news for you. Great players dont get greatness with age. they decline. Maria has seen her peak I believe. In 2 years you are right she will not be making the semis of grandslams....she will be going out in the 4th round or earlier.


Stupidest post of the thread.:rolleyes:

dagamezbest
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:45 PM
You need realize that Maria doesnt have the talent that Davenport and Mauresmo have either..

jacobruiz
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:48 PM
I suggest you look at the careers of Lindsay Davenport and Amelie Mauresmo.


And Justine and Venus and Kim and Jennifer and Martina Navratilova and Steffi and etc., etc.

johnoo
Jul 8th, 2006, 07:53 PM
You need realize that Maria doesnt have the talent that Davenport and Mauresmo have either..
you need to realise we don't give a flying fuck what you think.

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Potential? She's played 8 majors since her one slam win.
She's a good solid player, who Dinara beat at RG, and Moscow

A losing record against Myskina and Kuznetsova

All the players you listed are older than Sharapova. She has beaten Myskina the last two times, and Kuznetsova 2 of the last 3.

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:05 PM
No he is talking about the 2 really bad line calls against masha in that semi. But thats a poor excuss becoz Juju also had bad lines calls in that match. Would the match have turned out differently had the calls not been so bad, perhaps, but i don't think she lost coz of them.

No, there were two calls that were called incorrectly, according to shot spot. Both went against Maria. Both were on game points in the second set that Justine won by two games.

Kart
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:14 PM
No he is talking about the 2 really bad line calls against masha in that semi.

My mistake :o.

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Kuznetsova has a US Open win and a FO final in the last 8 majors.

And she has a coach, in fact - a few of them.

Sharapova has her dad and hitting partner. And instincts :p

Kuznetsova in the last 8 Majors: 29-7 (80%)

Did not beat a top ten player at Roland Garros (six straight wins against players outside the top fifteen.)

Three losses to players outside the top ten: Justine Henin-Hardenne, Elena Bychkova, Na Li

Sharapova in the last 8 Majors: 34-8 (81%)

Two losses to players outside the top five: Pierce and Safina


Maria has outperformed Sveta. I don't think there is any argument about that. Svetlana has not beaten a top ten player at a major since 2004. Maria beat one on Tuesday. And Sveta really wants to play Maria again? I really doubt that.

jacobruiz
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:16 PM
You need realize that Maria doesnt have the talent that Davenport and Mauresmo have either..


Judging how? By what they had accomplished by the time they were Maria's age? They showed no more talent at 19 years old than Maria has.

Maria has won a Grand slam, been number one, been consistently in the top four for almost two years, won the YEC, won 11 titles including two tier 1s, and finished in every slam since her win in the semis with 2 quarter-finals.

By the same age Amelie (since you mention her) had reached the third round at the AO and the US Open, had not won a single WTA title, and had been a finalist only once, at Berlin. Lindsay had done better - reaching 3 slam quarterfinals and winning 4 Tier III titles. You could argue that they still showed more "talent" than Maria, but you wouldn't have much of an argument.


Maria has shown that she possess great drive, determination and talent and there is no reason to think she won't grow her game and get better, just as Amelie and Lindsay did.

R. Federer
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:17 PM
I think he's alluding to the final being cut short by Justine's withdrawl.
No
He's alluding to the three bad calls semipova got (TV verified) on break/game points
It happens to everyone, though, so "legitimizing" a win is hardly an issue here

R. Federer
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:18 PM
Every single semi-final she legitimately lost (not counting AO 06, which we will never know who legitimately won,) she has lost to the eventual champion.

I still think AO 05 changed her career in a bad way.
Not to worry she's only 18, or 19 ....

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:20 PM
You need realize that Maria doesnt have the talent that Davenport and Mauresmo have either..

When Lindsay Davenport was 19, she was known as "dump truck" because she was so slow and out of shape. Her volleys were notoriously bad. Her serve was not as big as it is. She was basically her two groundstrokes and that's it. By the time she was 22, she had improved her volley significantly, lost weight and made a weapon of her serve.

Amelie Mauresmo couldn't close out an important match until she was 26 years old.

If you look at Maria's groundstrokes, serve and footwork (not speed, but footwork,) and do not see that she is the most talented player under the age of 21, then I do not know what to tell you. Svetlana is much stronger at the moment, but even that has not altered the fact that Maria has had a better year, tournament for tournament. However, Svetlana does not have the clean ground game or the textbook serving motion that Maria has. She currently moves better, but that is not because she is fast; it is because she has such strong legs that she pushes off better than just about anyone on tour. Maria could be as fast as Svetlana if Maria gets stronger.

As my final proof, Svetlana has never been ranked in the top 4 in the world. Maria has been no. 1, despite the fact that Maria is two years younger than Svetlana.

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Basically people, Maria is already solidly entrenched as the no. 4 in the world. She has held this position for two years now. It would be very unlikely for her not to make a breakthrough against the other three players ever, because she is between 5 and 10 years younger than the rest of them. She pretty much does not lose to players she is not supposed to. I just do not understand who people believe is going to be on top of Maria in 3 or 4 years. History says she will be much better, at the very least much more experienced with a better understanding of what to do in big matches.

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:26 PM
No
He's alluding to the three bad calls semipova got (TV verified) on break/game points
It happens to everyone, though, so "legitimizing" a win is hardly an issue here

No, it is actually very rare and will never happen again thanks to shot spot. Usually, people get bad calls. However, this is the only instance that has been televised since shot spot came into existence where a player got two bad calls on two consecutive game points. That would have been 4-2 for Maria. Instead, it was 4-2 for Justine. It isn't the difference between 30-30 and 40-15 or Ad in and Ad out even. It is the difference between 2-4 and 4-2. That does make a significant difference in a match.

mboyle
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:31 PM
meanwhile spare a thought to daniela who has lost to the eventual champion more times than anyone cares to remember.

I didn't realize Ashley Harkleroad and Shinobu Asagoe won French Open and Wimbledon titles:confused: . How about Patty Schnyder at the US Open? Nope. Elena Dementieva or Maria Sharapova down under? Ooops no again. What about Justine at this Wimbledon? Oops no. Clijsters at Roland Garros? Man, just looks like you are wrong...In a period where Maria has lost to 5 eventual slam champions (out of 8 majors,) Daniela has lost to just 1.

R. Federer
Jul 8th, 2006, 08:35 PM
No, it is actually very rare and will never happen again thanks to shot spot. Usually, people get bad calls. However, this is the only instance that has been televised since shot spot came into existence where a player got two bad calls on two consecutive game points. That would have been 4-2 for Maria. Instead, it was 4-2 for Justine. It isn't the difference between 30-30 and 40-15 or Ad in and Ad out even. It is the difference between 2-4 and 4-2. That does make a significant difference in a match.
That does seem true on the surface of it. However, getting a good / bad call on 30-all to make it game point/break point can affect how you play the next point as well. We just don't know how it would have played out if the correct calls had been made
But anyway, I support technology and am glad it's getting into the game now

msharafan
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:27 PM
give maria a break, she is willing to improve she didnt play her best against amelie and took a set off her and no one is saying justine will never win another slam and she got beaten the only reason she won the first set was because amelie was so nervous. considering justine is as an acomplished player as she is and considering she is so multi dimensional but still lost to mauresmo in 3 sets, maria also losing in 3 sets is not too bad. i think people dont understand amelie played the tournie of her life! she deserved to win! i thin on a hard court though maria would actually have an advantage considering all of amelies slice and topspin bounce so low and make it very tricky for there opponent even justine struggled with it and was why she lost the match. sharapova is still young and considering she is so willing to improve on her game i cant see how she wont break through and win another slam soo otr make a final! in fact considering she is healthy going into the summer this year and will be playing loads of tennis i think she will have some much needed confidence and also break her semi final rut she seems to be in! also about her easy draws justine had a much easier draw than maria!

tennisvulture
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:46 PM
I think each and every one on this forum can see the champion-in-the-making in Maria. the question is: can we say it out loud? can we acknowledge it?
She has proven she has everything in her to take her there, to the throne. She is already an acomplished player, experience is piling up, has all the intangibles, you can just always rely on her.
Get ready people for the inevitable.

IceHock
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:51 PM
Well if she wants to beat them alls she has to do is get better,something she hasn't done since she won wimbledon,she needs to learn how to volley,get quicker,and maybe add a slice because just power isn't going to get her another slam.

hablo
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:52 PM
Judging how? By what they had accomplished by the time they were Maria's age? They showed no more talent at 19 years old than Maria has.

Maria has won a Grand slam, been number one, been consistently in the top four for almost two years, won the YEC, won 11 titles including two tier 1s, and finished in every slam since her win in the semis with 2 quarter-finals.

By the same age Amelie (since you mention her) had reached the third round at the AO and the US Open, had not won a single WTA title, and had been a finalist only once, at Berlin. Lindsay had done better - reaching 3 slam quarterfinals and winning 4 Tier III titles. You could argue that they still showed more "talent" than Maria, but you wouldn't have much of an argument.

Maria has shown that she possess great drive, determination and talent and there is no reason to think she won't grow her game and get better, just as Amelie and Lindsay did.
Momo was still 19 when she reached the AO in 1999, no ? :p (she's born on july 5th)
just nitpicking, I don't really care about this discussion - Maria will probably get more slams, sooner or later :lol:

http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/players/playerprofiles/PlayerBio2.asp?PlayerID=130450
1999 – First Top 10 finish; unseeded, reached Australian Open final with wins over three seeds (including world No.1 Davenport; also saved mp vs. Morariu in 1r), before falling to No.2 Hingis; only second Frenchwoman to reach Australian Open final dating back to 1922 (Pierce won in 1995, runner-up in 1997) and third Frenchwoman to reach any Grand Slam final in Open Era; win over Davenport was only seventh time (now one of nine) in Open Era an unseeded player had upset a Grand Slam No.1 seed, after Chanfreau-1971 Roland Garros, Heldman-1973 US Open, Evers-1978 Australian Open, Sawyer-1989 Australian Open, Horvath-1983 Roland Garros and McNeil-1994 Wimbledon; upset No.1 Hingis en route to final at Paris [Indoors], becoming first non-Top 10 to d. two different world No.1s in a calendar year; on May 10, broke into Top 10, joining Pierce and Tauziat – France became only third country after USA and Australia to have three players simultaneously in Top 10; won career-first Tour singles title at Bratislava (d. Clijsters in final); sprained right ankle during 1r doubles match at Roland Garros and missed Wimbledon as a result; on November 15, joined Halard-Decugis, Pierce and Tauziat in Top 10, a first for France (repeated in January, February, April and May 2000); qualified for season-ending Championships for first time (l. 1r).

Derek.
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:54 PM
I didn't realize Ashley Harkleroad and Shinobu Asagoe won French Open and Wimbledon titles:confused: . How about Patty Schnyder at the US Open? Nope. Elena Dementieva or Maria Sharapova down under? Ooops no again. What about Justine at this Wimbledon? Oops no. Clijsters at Roland Garros? Man, just looks like you are wrong...In a period where Maria has lost to 5 eventual slam champions (out of 8 majors,) Daniela has lost to just 1.

He means at Wimbledon. :retard:

2002 - Lost to Serena who eventually won the title.
2004 - Lost to Maria who eventually won the title.
2005 - Lost to Venus who eventually won the title.


But yes Maria has lost to the eventual champion more lately.

No need to get all sarcastic. :rolleyes:

trivfun
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:55 PM
Remember Pete Sampras took 3 years after he won his first major, I think 07, Maria is going to explode.

Derek.
Jul 8th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Potential? She's played 8 majors since her one slam win.
She's a good solid player, who Dinara beat at RG, and Moscow

A losing record against Myskina and Kuznetsova


She's won the last two vs. Myskina.


She faced an inform Kuznetsova, but still, Maria has done much more than Sveta in their careers.

Maria was injured and out of form when she played Dinara in Moscow.

She lacked match play when the two played a few weeks ago. And still should have won that match because there's no excuse for leading 5-1 and losing. And it's not like Dinara and Sveta are at the level of Maria either, because both of them lost way back in the 3rd round.

She's been close to reaching another GS final a few times now. She'll eventually win that semifinal. It's not like she's 29 years old. She's 19 and has plenty of time.

VS Fan
Jul 8th, 2006, 10:26 PM
Maria was NOT supposed to lose to Serena at AO 2005 and for sure not supposed to lose to Venus at Wimby 2005.

Her game is great but well known now. To continue she MUST add more variety.
The other players have studied the film and have ways to challenge her game.

Unless she adds more dimension to her game, someone in a SLAM will win before the final.

fufuqifuqishahah
Jul 8th, 2006, 10:32 PM
meanwhile spare a thought to daniela who has lost to the eventual champion more times than anyone cares to remember.

i feel so bad daniela! hopefully she can continue this 4r streak at the US OPen... then next year do all QF, then the year after that do all SF, then the year after that do all RUP, then the year after that do all W.


but about Maria, she will improve i'm sure, win some more GS, unless she goes injury crazy

IceHock
Jul 8th, 2006, 10:33 PM
i feel so bad daniela! hopefully she can continue this 4r streak at the US OPen... then next year do all QF, then the year after that do all SF, then the year after that do all RUP, then the year after that do all W.


lol,that's too aggravating,she should just skip to the winner:p .I can dream

saki
Jul 8th, 2006, 10:45 PM
Maria fans - the ignore list, use it, love it. ;)

It's perfectly obvious that she is going to win more slams. Not only does she have the talent, she also has the right attitude. She's working on her game, prepared to make changes, and she will get there. It's not like all GS winners have had tremendous variety - Lindsay/Mary are recent winners in the same mould as Maria - and she's adding that which she needs. She probably could use additional coaching help but I'm sure she'll go out and get that when she feels she needs it.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2006, 11:42 PM
Maria is what she is right now...a consistent performer, who doesn't lose to players she isn't supposed to lose to, but rarely if ever beats players ranked ahead of her...you could call her Lindsay-lite. Considering Lindsay spent many weeks at no.1 by following the consistency-route, it ain't surprising that Maria is top 4...when you reach SF or better at most of your tourneys, that should be enough.

But looking at the bigger picture: Does she have really really big wins lately? At some time she'll have to add a big scalp at a major again, otherwise she just remains ms. consistency.

Tennisaddict
Jul 9th, 2006, 12:06 AM
Sharapova will win more majors I'm sure of that, but it will be in a time where the WS, the Belgian duo and Mauresmo will be retired and/or not match fit/tough/injured. She just can't beat those players on the big occasions it seems apart from Wimbledon 2004 of course. People are saying she has to develop still, and I agree but I don't think she should have this much trouble with the Belgians and Momo for example. They can really make her look mediocre when they play her. It is also a fact that she will never be a good fast mover and that always will and can be used against her. I think she can and will improve on her volleys, it would be wise if she played doubles. Trying to slice and put other elements to her game is very praiseworthy but it does look akward when she does it. She is succesful in hitting dropshots though. I think Sharapova will get more slams than Davenport because of her fighting spirit and experience in big matches which she can use against the girls her age when she's competing with them for the majors as the older players surely will be retired or at least are no longer a threat at the top in five years. I don't think she's as talented as Wx2 Bx2 and Momo tough.

ezekiel
Jul 9th, 2006, 12:25 AM
I am not sure at all she will win anymore unless by a fluke and here is why . She doesn't think in her game, not a strategist at all but very instinctive like every young player. As she gets older and deals with different players and situations doubts pour in and since she is not trained to strategize she will have trouble with different players or specifically with variety players.

She seems frail physically , thin with no muscle and straining her body all the time on every shot . She will be susceptible to early burnout and injuries . Physically and mentally she seems headed for a burnout of sorts unless something changes with her which is doubtful at this point. The question is how long can she ride her youthful exhuberance ?

Drake1980
Jul 9th, 2006, 12:31 AM
Wow! She hasn't won a Slam in more than 2 years now!

Aaron.
Jul 9th, 2006, 12:38 AM
maybe if she stops getting cushy draws till semis she will be more in form against top players :shrug:
:lol:

VS Fan
Jul 9th, 2006, 12:40 AM
Alot of people on are saying things like "give maria 2 more years she'll be a champion..." well I've got news for you. Great players dont get greatness with age. they decline. Maria has seen her peak I believe. In 2 years you are right she will not be making the semis of grandslams....she will be going out in the 4th round or earlier.

I will differ with this opinion:

Example: Serena won US Open at age 17, then faltered for 3 years then completed the "Serena Slam" at age 21 or 22. Maresmo just got her second slam at 27.

Maria has a good game, do not count her out yet!

Marshmallow
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:07 AM
I will differ with this opinion:

Example: Serena won US Open at age 17, then faltered for 3 years then completed the "Serena Slam" at age 21 or 22. Maresmo just got her second slam at 27.

Maria has a good game, do not count her out yet!

Someone else posted that in Serena's drought years, she did not play all the slams, and after winning the US open, she got the the final of the seventh slam following she played in, and then won the 8th.

Maria and Serena remain a different league. I don't see why people even insinuate she'll do what Serena did. These are different times, and they are different players. In my opinion she remains overhyped and a classless act.

supergrunt
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:27 AM
from the age of 17-19, serena was in 4 or 5 finals (b/c in 02 she turned 20 after the us open)... Honestly, I am not saying that Maria doesn't have the talent or anything BUT... the only reason why people are defending Maria's grand slam performances and saying that she will dominate is b/c she is a pretty popular blonde and people want to see her live up to her endorsements :rolleyes: - If Maria looked like Amelie no one would care :p

cellophane
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:28 AM
Maria has been in Semiapova mode lately. :p

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:33 AM
Maria was NOT supposed to lose to Serena at AO 2005 and for sure not supposed to lose to Venus at Wimby 2005.

Her game is great but well known now. To continue she MUST add more variety.
The other players have studied the film and have ways to challenge her game.

Unless she adds more dimension to her game, someone in a SLAM will win before the final.

SHe is doing that. She came into net more than Mauresmo did in their match. She was more successful at it than Mauresmo was.

It is really interesting to me that some of you have no ability to think beyond the moment you are in. Some moron made the statement that champions decline over time. The only one who did so was Martina Hingis, and she didn't really decline; everyone else caught up and surpassed her. Historically, the peak of a player has come in her mid twenties.

Someone else said that Maria is not a strategist. If you watch her matches, she clearly is. If you want someone who just whacks the ball with no purpose, look at Sania Mirza. I love the girl to death, but she really does just try to end points ASAP. Maria definitely has a game plan against everyone, and she definitely does try to find ways to win. Someone said she is weak. Again, she will bulk up. Justine was weak too until 21.

It is really funny, because people said the same thing about Serena Wililams. I said Justine and Amelie would never win majors because they needed mental improvements, which are much harder to come by and historically unprecedented. However, adding variety to a gameplan for a champion who has already won slams and been no. 1 in the world by 18 years old is not unprecedented. In fact, it is unprecedented for someone of Sharapova's consistency and achievement level NOT to continue to improve and continue to have major success.

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:33 AM
from the age of 17-19, serena was in 4 or 5 finals (b/c in 02 she turned 20 after the us open)... Honestly, I am not saying that Maria doesn't have the talent or anything BUT... the only reason why people are defending Maria's grand slam performances and saying that she will dominate is b/c she is a pretty popular blonde and people want to see her live up to her endorsements :rolleyes: - If Maria looked like Amelie no one would care :p

No, Serena turned 21 after US Open 02. She was born September 3, 1981:wavey: . Serena won her second major at 20 years old.

CrossCourt~Rally
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:38 AM
My biggest fear for Maria Sharapova is that players like Nicole Vaidisova, Dinara Safina, Jamea Jackson are not going to sit around and wait for Maria Sharapova to develop into that Grand Slam champion that people want her to be.

Well...unlike the 3 mentioned above...Maria is already a Grand Slam WINNER . :worship:

:wavey:

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:38 AM
Someone else posted that in Serena's drought years, she did not play all the slams, and after winning the US open, she got the the final of the seventh slam following she played in, and then won the 8th.

Maria and Serena remain a different league. I don't see why people even insinuate she'll do what Serena did. These are different times, and they are different players. In my opinion she remains overhyped and a classless act.

So we should punish Maria for staying in shape and not getting injured as much as Serena did? Serena was ranked 6 in both 2000 and 2001--fell to 11 in the summer of 2001. Maria finished 2005 ranked no. 4--the same as when she won Wimbledon. She has not yet fallen out of the top five. How are these "different times?" In 2000/2001, we had Venus semi-dominating, with Capriati, Hingis, Davenport and Pierce picking up lots of titles as well. Now we have Henin-Hardenne semi dominating, with Clijsters and Mauresmo also remaining hard to beat.

So far, no one has given a valid, defendable reason why Maria will not improve in the next ten years. The only reasons I have gotten deal with how she plays presently and assume that she will never improve. Essentially, every argument that has been presented reads like, "Maria Sharapova will not improve because I don't like her and want (insert veteran here) to play and dominate until she is 35."

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:45 AM
My biggest fear for Maria Sharapova is that players like Nicole Vaidisova, Dinara Safina, Jamea Jackson are not going to sit around and wait for Maria Sharapova to develop into that Grand Slam champion that people want her to be.

Safina and Jackson don't have to sit around and wait. If they want to make it, they had better step it up because they are both older and less accomplished than Sharapova.

I mean, sorry but Jackson does not even deserve to be in this list. Jackson will be lucky to ever make the top thirty. Safina doesn't have the willpower or the head, or the groundstrokes for that matter. She doesn't see the ball as well as the top players, which gives her her inconsistency.

Vaidisova could become a better player than Sharapova. They are, however, the only legitimate contenders for tour domination, at this point, for players under 21. Ivanovic still has some hope left, I guess, but Safina, Golovin, Kirilenko, anyone else you want to mix in, none of those players has accomplished as much as young as Sharapova and Vaidisova. Time is on both of their sides.

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Well...unlike the 3 mentioned above...Maria is already a Grand Slam WINNER . :worship:

:wavey:

Safina had been to one grand slam round of 16 by age 19, 3 months. When Maria loses in the Round of 16, people suggest she should retire.

Jamea Jackson hasn't been past the second round of a grand slam. She should be compared to Sania Mirza, not Safina and certainly not Sharapova.

G1Player2
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:48 AM
No, Serena turned 21 after US Open 02. She was born September 3, 1981:wavey: . Serena won her second major at 20 years old.

:retard: September 26, 1981. Get your fact straight before you start your "delusions of grandeur" posts.

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 02:52 AM
:retard: September 26, 1981. Get your fact straight before you start your "delusions of grandeur" posts.

I'm so sorry that I was off by 23 days. I can't imagine what you did to the poster who was off by over a year:tape: ...

Robbie.
Jul 9th, 2006, 03:49 AM
I think the answer is to wait and see. There really is no logical answer to this question. We can conject all we like, but the last ten years shows that it's completely unpredictable.

If someone said after US '96 that Steffi (winner of the last 6 she contested)would win only one more slam you wouldnt have believed it

If someone said after A0 '98 that Hingis (winner of 4 of the last 5) would win only one more slam you wouldnt have believed it.

If someone said after A0 '00 that Davenport (winner of 3 of the last 6) would never win a slam again you wouldnt have believed it.

If someone said at the end of '00 that Capriati (then barely in the top 15) would win the first two slams of '01 and 3 of the next 5 you wouldnt have believed it.

If someone said after US Open '01 that Venus (winner of 4 of the last 6) would not win a slam for 4 years you wouldnt have believed it.

If someone said after AO '03 that Henin-Hardenne would win 3 of the next 4 GS you wouldnt have believed it.

If someone said after W '03 that Serena (winner of 5 of the last 6) would win only one more slam in the next three years you wouldn't have believed it.

If someone said after AO '04 that Myskina, Sharapova and Kuznetsova would win the next three slams you wouldnt have believed it.

If someone said after the loss to Schiavone in Moscow '05 that Mauresmo would win YEC '05, AO '06 and W '06 you would have laughed at them.


After all this how can we predict anything with any certainty? You can have the most logical, rational prediction based on current form and then still be totally wrong.

If you predicted now that Sharapova would win the next three non clay GS people would call you an idiot, but is it really any more outrageous than what has already happened?

After watching Pierce clobber Mauresmo into defeat at Flushing Meadows, I finally came to the conclusion that Momo would never win a slam. And it wasnt just because of the really overdone discussion about her nerves. In my view she simply didn't have enough game. There would always be someone there who could blow her off the court. She could not win a slam with that loopy forehand or with that passive play in this day and age. And she could not consistently charge the net without risking having her head taken off by canon like passing shots. But alas she got a couple of lucky breaks in Australia with opponents turning up injured and then her nemeses Davenport and Serena Williams didn't make it to Wimbledon and - what do you know - she's a dual GS champion.

I posted a couple of days ago, in real frustration at Maria after he SF defeat, that with her poor record against Henin, Clijsters and Mauresmo I could not see a GS for her in the forseeable future. I retract that statement. It might look at the moment like she always finds someone better than her but things can change quickly. Despite her GS wins, Mauresmo is still probably the biggest upset risk of any number one in history. As matches against Ivanovic, Kuznetsova and Vaidisova this year show she can still be blown off the court at times. Meanwhile Henin is not the invulnerable player on faster courts that she is on clay and, for both her and Clijsters, an injury is always just around the corner. I really doubt that Sharapova could beat any of these players to win a GS, but the reality is that she might not have to and her record against everyone else is pretty damn good. If injury or another player gets to these players first, then she might be back in the GS winners circle sooner than we all think.

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 04:40 AM
I think Maria could take out Justine or Amelie on a fast surface. I think Justine or Amelie at this point would probably win 4 out of 5 on a hardcourt and 5 out of 5 on clay. Kim will win virtually every time against Maria until Maria learns to volley. The faster a player is, the tougher it is for Maria to play her.

Jum_p_Over
Jul 9th, 2006, 04:42 AM
She needs more variety, and the ability to adjust her game. She still has plenty of time to do this

G~Playa
Jul 9th, 2006, 04:43 AM
Its All Cool Wif HEr

Sam L
Jul 9th, 2006, 05:05 AM
She needs more variety, and the ability to adjust her game. She still has plenty of time to do this
She shouldn't get complacent though. Because Martina Hingis was in the same situation.

Callystarr
Jul 9th, 2006, 05:32 AM
Well I feel Maria needs to up her game. Flat shots aren't enough. Unfortunately when top players are healthy she is not going to beat them....

She struggles against players like Mauresmo, Henin, Clijsters, Davenport, and I will even say a healthy Venus/Serena will defeat her too.

No doubt Sharapova has what it takes to go QF or deeper in every slam, but she doesn't have the winning touch to constantly make trips to the finals. Not to mention I swear Sharapova has the easiest draws consistently....she usually doesn't hit a top 10 player UNTIL the semis...in which she USUALLY loses...

Robbie.
Jul 9th, 2006, 05:41 AM
Not to mention I swear Sharapova has the easiest draws consistently....she usually doesn't hit a top 10 player UNTIL the semis...in which she USUALLY loses...

In her last 6 GS quarterfinals (Kuznetsova, Henin, Petrova, Petrova, Petrova, Dementieva) she has faced a top ten player ;). She has only once reached the semis without beating a top tenner (Wimbledon 2004).

Dan23
Jul 9th, 2006, 06:08 AM
mboyle has everyone covered here....Maria is in a position where, with continued improvement, she will get over the SF hump that has been in the way. She has the inbuilt qualities to play a very tough game....possibly additional expertise in the coaching area could be useful.

Brooklyn90
Jul 9th, 2006, 06:12 AM
mboyle has everyone covered here....Maria is in a position where, with continued improvement, she will get over the SF hump that has been in the way. She has the inbuilt qualities to play a very tough game....possibly additional expertise in the coaching area could be useful.
i agree a new coach needs be be brought in

serenafan08
Jul 9th, 2006, 06:17 AM
My biggest knock on Maria is her mentality. She mentally tough enough to stay in matches - but not tough enough to win them. She's got the game to win another Grand Slam, but she can't seem to win the big one. That's the added pressure of being tennis's new superstar. When she won Wimbledon in '04, it was like a dream come true for marketers. Now they had this tall, skinny blonde chick to use as their new gimmick. I'm sorry but that's the truth - no other athlete is as hyped up as Maria is, and it's because she's blonde and beautiful. Unfortunately, she hasn't dealt with that pressure very well, and it's shown up in the key matches over and over. People call her one of the game's best fighters, but I don't think she is. A fighter is someone who comes back from 7-6, 4-1 and wins in three sets- that's a fighter. Maria either steamrolls in straights or drops a set then steamrolls; that's not fighting. She's won a few close matches, but not when it matters. All the excuses people have been making for her are just ridiculous. The real story is that Maria is too fragile mentally when it comes down to crunch time. People said the same things about Serena, Justine and Venus when they weren't coming through in the clutch - Maria is not exempt from that criticism. Until she can come through in the closer matches, she won't win another Slam. The game is too deep for a player to blitz through a draw without losing a set.

ezekiel
Jul 9th, 2006, 10:50 AM
Someone else said that Maria is not a strategist. If you watch her matches, she clearly is. If you want someone who just whacks the ball with no purpose, look at Sania Mirza. I love the girl to death, but she really does just try to end points ASAP. Maria definitely has a game plan against everyone, and she definitely does try to find ways to win. Someone said she is weak. Again, she will bulk up. Justine was weak too until 21.

I believe you are referriing to my post.
She plays the same way against everyone and only goes for what opponent gives her by bashing the ball into oppenings.

She is not weak but she is frail and thin . She has no muscle mass to fall on and she exhudes maximum strain on every shot. That is very stressful on body and joints and very suceptible to injuries and weakening of her body

watchdogfish
Jul 9th, 2006, 11:29 AM
I believe you are referriing to my post.
She plays the same way against everyone and only goes for what opponent gives her by bashing the ball into oppenings.

She is not weak but she is frail and thin . She has no muscle mass to fall on and she exhudes maximum strain on every shot. That is very stressful on body and joints and very suceptible to injuries and weakening of her body


I agree with what you say about Maria not being a good strategist. It's like she has already decided upon her game plan before the match has started and when it doesn't work, she seems very confused and doesn't know what to do. If she wants to become a great player and win more slams she really needs to have a Plan B that's just as good as her Plan A. If, when she retires, she only has the one slam, it will look like a fluke.

Maybe she needs to get a proper coach who can help her add elements to her game that she can use with confidence, but I guess it's a question of Yuri allowing this to happen

DevilishAttitude
Jul 9th, 2006, 01:20 PM
The match that destroyed Maria was Wimbledon 2005 SF when she lost to Venus :(

After that Serena match, she won Tokyo beating Lindsay at a place she owned, then won Doha, then beat Pierce, then beat Henin and Venus at Miami. She was fine after the Australian match. The only bad match was against Lindsay at IW.

But after that Venus Wimby match, Maria has never been mentally the same again. She gets tight whenever she has a chance to close out matches, she's choked away against Safina twice, Mauresmo & Henin. She gets tight much easier, and doesn't have the same aura about her.

She needs to get rid of Yuri to stand any chance of improving.

*JR*
Jul 9th, 2006, 01:42 PM
Potential? She's played 8 majors since her one slam win.
She's a good solid player, who Dinara beat at RG, and Moscow

A losing record against Myskina and Kuznetsova
Your Masha bashing is based on something you don't have the guts to come out and admit: she's won big trophies (including a Slam and a YEC) early in her career, whereas your darling Anna never won any singles titles.

I agree that Sharky needs a fulltime "real coach", and more shot variety. But the "day after" the 2nd Slam in a year by a 27 y.o. who never won any B4 renders this BS about a 19 y.o. who hasn't bagged another Slam yet idiotic.

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2006, 01:43 PM
Good point about Maria not winning the close matches....she has a good three-set record, but looking at it more closely if she can't steamroll past her opponent, she is done. She rarely wins 7-5 or 7-6 sets..this means that she isn't handling pressure situations well. At majors you sometime need to win the close sets too, otherwise you ain't gonna become a champ.

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2006, 01:47 PM
The match that destroyed Maria was Wimbledon 2005 SF when she lost to Venus :(

After that Serena match, she won Tokyo beating Lindsay at a place she owned, then won Doha, then beat Pierce, then beat Henin and Venus at Miami. She was fine after the Australian match. The only bad match was against Lindsay at IW.

But after that Venus Wimby match, Maria has never been mentally the same again. She gets tight whenever she has a chance to close out matches, she's choked away against Safina twice, Mauresmo & Henin. She gets tight much easier, and doesn't have the same aura about her.

She needs to get rid of Yuri to stand any chance of improving.

See...that's what the Williamses have done with numerous opponents, they just break your psyche..Justine still has nightmares about AI against Venus.

Dan23
Jul 9th, 2006, 03:10 PM
The match that destroyed Maria was Wimbledon 2005 SF when she lost to Venus :(

After that Serena match, she won Tokyo beating Lindsay at a place she owned, then won Doha, then beat Pierce, then beat Henin and Venus at Miami. She was fine after the Australian match. The only bad match was against Lindsay at IW.

But after that Venus Wimby match, Maria has never been mentally the same again. She gets tight whenever she has a chance to close out matches, she's choked away against Safina twice, Mauresmo & Henin. She gets tight much easier, and doesn't have the same aura about her.

She needs to get rid of Yuri to stand any chance of improving.I cant see how that match would in any way affect Maria in closing out future matches :shrug: She wasnt fully fit and rarely played again for the rest of the year after Wimbledon.


Bandy, are you basing that 7-5 7-6 arguement on facts or just your thoughts?

supergrunt
Jul 9th, 2006, 03:24 PM
the williams sisters mess with bitches psyche :devil:

Melly Flew Us
Jul 9th, 2006, 03:34 PM
The match that destroyed Maria was Wimbledon 2005 SF when she lost to Venus ... after that Venus Wimby match, Maria has never been mentally the same again. She gets tight whenever she has a chance to close out matches, she's choked away against Safina twice, Mauresmo & Henin. She gets tight much easier, and doesn't have the same aura about her....
i don't agree. i believe it was the Ao 05 semi that boded ill for her - it was the first match when she mentally admitted defeat. it was tangible.

goldenlox
Jul 9th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Kuznetsova in the last 8 Majors: 29-7 (80%)

Did not beat a top ten player at Roland Garros (six straight wins against players outside the top fifteen.)

Three losses to players outside the top ten: Justine Henin-Hardenne, Elena Bychkova, Na Li

Sharapova in the last 8 Majors: 34-8 (81%)

Two losses to players outside the top five: Pierce and Safina


Maria has outperformed Sveta. I don't think there is any argument about that. Svetlana has not beaten a top ten player at a major since 2004. Maria beat one on Tuesday. And Sveta really wants to play Maria again? I really doubt that.Sveta has an all court game, as does Nadia.
They can both serve and volley, chip and charge, or stand behind the baseline on red clay and hit groundies all day

They haven't come near reaching their on court potential.

Sharapova can't volley or play steady

johnoo
Jul 9th, 2006, 07:13 PM
They can both serve and volley, chip and charge, or stand behind the baseline on red clay and hit groundies all day

good for them :rolleyes:

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 07:54 PM
I believe you are referriing to my post.
She plays the same way against everyone and only goes for what opponent gives her by bashing the ball into oppenings.

She is not weak but she is frail and thin . She has no muscle mass to fall on and she exhudes maximum strain on every shot. That is very stressful on body and joints and very suceptible to injuries and weakening of her body

Actually, if you saw her match against Mauresmo, she directed about 70% of balls to the forehand side. Same against Venus last year. Against Justine, she is one of the few players I have seen try to break down Justine's backhand, because that shot can be overpowered. I think she thinks well. I believe she knows, in theory, how to win most of her matches. I just do not believe she yet has the confidence in herself to get to net and finish the point correctly.

DevilishAttitude
Jul 9th, 2006, 08:02 PM
See...that's what the Williamses have done with numerous opponents, they just break your psyche..Justine still has nightmares about AI against Venus.

Hmmmm. Maybe for Justine against Vee but not anyone else.

I cant see how that match would in any way affect Maria in closing out future matches :shrug: She wasnt fully fit and rarely played again for the rest of the year after Wimbledon.


Bandy, are you basing that 7-5 7-6 arguement on facts or just your thoughts?

Maria wasn't fit at Wimby last year :confused:

And you can you say Maria has put a mentally strong match since? Apart from against Dementieva @ IW, I don't think she has

Sveta has an all court game, as does Nadia.
They can both serve and volley, chip and charge, or stand behind the baseline on red clay and hit groundies all day

They haven't come near reaching their on court potential.

Sharapova can't volley or play steady

Sveta and Nadia serve & volley about 3% of the time and chip and charge 0.5%.

Sveta hasn't I think, Nadia had her time and failed miserably at RG. She won't be Top 10 this time next year.

mboyle
Jul 9th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Sveta has an all court game, as does Nadia.
They can both serve and volley, chip and charge, or stand behind the baseline on red clay and hit groundies all day

They haven't come near reaching their on court potential.

Sharapova can't volley or play steady

Haha you are so funny! Svetlana cannot hit groundstrokes all day. She actually can't rally for more than five or six shots because her groundstrokes are so technically inadequate. She hits hard, runs fast and is strong, but her basic game is not sound. Maria's basic game is the second most solid I have ever seen, after Lindsay's. Her backhand never misses, and her serve is always a major factor. Also, you say Svetlana and Nadia can serve and volley, which is, simply put, not true. Svetlana can on grass, but doesn't do it on any other surface, and even on grass limits herself to one or two times per match. I have NEVER seen Nadia serve and volley. Also, sure Svetlana can come in, but she almost never does. Nadia doesn't much either. Sharapova isn't nearly as good of a volleyer, but she is coming in now far more than either of them.

I mean let's be honest. Nadia is 24. She is too old to really even compete with Sharapova in terms of whose career is likely to be better. Nadia is never going to win a grand slam, is never going to be no. 1 and is never going to have a winning record against Sharapova.

Svetlana definitely does have game. She works harder than anyone but Justine, I feel. However, she does not have as much natural game as Maria. Technically, every part of Maria's game (even her footwork) is sounder than Svetlana's, other than the volley. Svetlana is in much better shape and is much stronger. However, those are not inate qualities, whereas Maria's superior mental attitude and superior hand-eye coordination are inate qualities. Therefore, it follows, Maria has much more room to improve. Svetlana has already worked as hard as she can to improve as much as she can. She is never suddenly going to learn to slow down her forehand swing or follow through on her backhand. She is never going to learn how to serve unabbreviated or to kick the second serve while maintaining real power. Svetlana's hard work and great physical shape alone will take her very very far. 80% of anything in life is about how hard you work. However, Maria works hard as well, and, in the 20% of the game that is sheer talent, Maria wins hands down.

I just think it is really unfair that you say Nadia and Sveta haven't reached their potential while implying that Maria has when Maria is 19 and Nadia is 24. Tennis players usually improve their games until they are 23 or 24. Few improve significantly after 24, and in fact typically decline after 27 or 28.

bandabou
Jul 9th, 2006, 11:46 PM
I think Maria will win more majors...but it is also clear that she's gonna need help to do this. Either the players who are troubling her at the majors: Kim, Justine, Momo, Venus?, Serena?, will have to beat each other or lose early..or they have to be out with injuries...as it is evident that Maria can't and probably will never be able to beat them on a big stage. Of the generation next, she's the best player...but thing is the current generation is still going strong. So, I think Maria will remain ms.consistency until then.

Steffica Greles
Jul 10th, 2006, 12:12 AM
I don't think it's mental with Maria, as you suggest. I think she's just not been good enough in any of those matches -- including Melbourne, 05.

msharafan
Jul 10th, 2006, 12:16 AM
My biggest knock on Maria is her mentality. She mentally tough enough to stay in matches - but not tough enough to win them. She's got the game to win another Grand Slam, but she can't seem to win the big one. That's the added pressure of being tennis's new superstar. When she won Wimbledon in '04, it was like a dream come true for marketers. Now they had this tall, skinny blonde chick to use as their new gimmick. I'm sorry but that's the truth - no other athlete is as hyped up as Maria is, and it's because she's blonde and beautiful. Unfortunately, she hasn't dealt with that pressure very well, and it's shown up in the key matches over and over. People call her one of the game's best fighters, but I don't think she is. A fighter is someone who comes back from 7-6, 4-1 and wins in three sets- that's a fighter. Maria either steamrolls in straights or drops a set then steamrolls; that's not fighting. She's won a few close matches, but not when it matters. All the excuses people have been making for her are just ridiculous. The real story is that Maria is too fragile mentally when it comes down to crunch time. People said the same things about Serena, Justine and Venus when they weren't coming through in the clutch - Maria is not exempt from that criticism. Until she can come through in the closer matches, she won't win another Slam. The game is too deep for a player to blitz through a draw without losing a set.




what is your problem with maria! just cause she beat youre fav player in wimby 2004! doesnt me you have to slate her all the time! at the moment i would say maria has a much better chance of winning another slam than serena! also its not that maria has been mentally weak its that she has been beaten by better players on the day! that does not make her a choker! you really have it in for maria! how does maria nit have it when it comes down to the crunch! that is absolute rubbish! she beat your precious serena! in wimby 2004! leave maria alone shes young and will improve she is improving all the time and i as a fan of her recognise she is trying to learn but things dont happen overnight!!!

bandabou
Jul 10th, 2006, 12:31 AM
:lol: So far that's her only claim to fame yet anyways, soooo....Serena already has 7, won all four, four in a row....her legacy is already complete. Maria? Hmmm...

blumaroo
Jul 10th, 2006, 01:43 AM
Mboyle preach.
Sveta has the most mishits of the top 10 because of her technical inadequacy/unnatural hitting. She therefore struggles against lower-ranked players. And no it's not only mentally. She is however born with strong legs and power which will keep her in the top 10 for quite some time. But there is no reason to believe why it's a given that Sveta will overtake Maria.

I have to disagree about Nadia though. From what I've seen this year, her game is evolving very nicely and she has serve and volleyed more. I think she will definitely continue beating top players.

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 01:49 AM
Maria wasn't fit at Wimby last year :confused:No, I said she wasnt fit for the rest of the year after Wimbledon


And you can you say Maria has put a mentally strong match since? Apart from against Dementieva @ IW, I don't think she hasRG vs Washington?? AO vs Petrova?? IW vs Hingis??
The situation doesnt always have to be a come from behind win in order to be a tough effort mentally.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2006, 01:49 AM
After awhile this gets kind-of ridiculous. No matter what someone says the Maria fans *cough*(myboyle)*cough* :devil: are going to say something to defend Maria... even if it is stupid as it usally is. :rolleyes:

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 01:56 AM
Either the players who are troubling her at the majors: Kim, Justine, Momo, Venus?, Serena?, will have to beat each other or lose early..or they have to be out with injuries...as it is evident that Maria can't and probably will never be able to beat them on a big stage.
I dont think thats true...shes has been on top in stages of most of these matches. She played at a level that if maintained would be more than enough to win the match. Is just a matter of having the strength, fitness and variation to maintain an advantage for the whole 2/3 sets.

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 01:59 AM
After awhile this gets kind-of ridiculous. No matter what someone says the Maria fans *cough*(myboyle)*cough* :devil: are going to say something to defend Maria... even if it is stupid as it usally is. :rolleyes:
Maybe thats because he cant be wrong because we're mainly speculating about the future...few posts in here have been as stupid as yours though :wavey:

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2006, 02:00 AM
Against Vee? :devil:

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 02:01 AM
However, she does not have as much natural game as Maria. Technically, every part of Maria's game (even her footwork) is sounder than Svetlana's, other than the volley. Svetlana is in much better shape and is much stronger. However, those are not inate qualities, whereas Maria's superior mental attitude and superior hand-eye coordination are inate qualities. Therefore, it follows, Maria has much more room to improve. Svetlana has already worked as hard as she can to improve as much as she can. She is never suddenly going to learn to slow down her forehand swing or follow through on her backhand. She is never going to learn how to serve unabbreviated or to kick the second serve while maintaining real power. Svetlana's hard work and great physical shape alone will take her very very far. 80% of anything in life is about how hard you work. However, Maria works hard as well, and, in the 20% of the game that is sheer talent, Maria wins hands down.

:eek: :eek: :eek:
sharapova? natural game? :speakles:
your girl is fiery and intense, but a natural talent she is not. someone teach her how to slice a ball, it could come in handy any time she's getting her ass kicked by jhh/mauresmo/clijsters.

anyone who saw the miami beatdown of sharapova by kuznetsova KNOWS who the more naturally talented player is. your assertions are ludicrous!


I just think it is really unfair that you say Nadia and Sveta haven't reached their potential while implying that Maria has when Maria is 19 and Nadia is 24. Tennis players usually improve their games until they are 23 or 24. Few improve significantly after 24, and in fact typically decline after 27 or 28.

tell that to amelie mauresmo...you know, the woman who has a 3-0 record against sharapova in the past year, the current and undisputed world #1, and 2 time grand slam champion. i do have a feeling elena D will be the same way...and there is a HUGE possibility maria has peaked already. call it somewhat of a supernova-type phenomenon. roddick peaked young, sharapova could have as well. :)

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2006, 02:04 AM
Maybe thats because he cant be wrong because we're mainly speculating about the future...few posts in here have been as stupid as yours though :wavey:
Huh :rolleyes: A Maria fan

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 02:08 AM
Huh :rolleyes: A Maria fan
Yes well spotted :p

Apoleb
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:08 AM
She is probably going to win a few more slams and will always stay near the top, but I do not see her ever totally dominating woman's tennis like some people here are suggesting. And yes, there have been cases in the past where players made tremendous improvements in their game since they were 19 (check Henin), but no one should bet their money on Sharapova becoming one of the fastest players on tour or becoming one of the best volleyers. The realistic thing to expect is that she'd finally learn to make a volley, and improve a bit her movement, but I still don't think she'd have the game to totally dominate. She just doesn't have the natural feel for certain shots, and you can't teach that. Her groundstrokes are very solid, but they are far from being the most devastating.

SAEKeithSerena
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:14 AM
What is Maria's record against Amelie, Justine and Kim?
She's 0-4 against them at the majors.

That's not a knock on Maria. She's just not as good a player as they are.

Maria volleys like a weekend hacker


and your beloved dementieva 1)got blown off the court by maria and 2)can't serve:lol:

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:19 AM
um...

what does elena have to do with anything?

first of all, elena has defeated maria before. she's also defeated justine, kim, and amelie within in the past YEAR, and let's see...that's something maria has NEVER done. oh wait she beat a rusty justine ONCE in three sets (that was justine's first tourny back after a long layoff, btw)

if maria didn't have a serve, she wouldn't be in the top 200. elena, with her shitty serve, is two ranking spots below maria. hm. what does this say?

elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, can still beat all of the top players. this is something maria can't do...hm. elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has been in a slam final more recently than sharapova. and elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has defeated justine in the semis of an important event...which is something maria can't attest to...ever. :tape:

blumaroo
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Now you're just sounding desperate to defend Elena D. And Maria not in the top 200 if she didn't have a serve? lol

Sharapova's_Boy
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:31 AM
if maria didn't have a serve, she wouldn't be in the top 200.

You're joking, right? :unsure:

Lefty.
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:34 AM
um...

what does elena have to do with anything?

first of all, elena has defeated maria before. she's also defeated justine, kim, and amelie within in the past YEAR, and let's see...that's something maria has NEVER done. oh wait she beat a rusty justine ONCE in three sets (that was justine's first tourny back after a long layoff, btw)

if maria didn't have a serve, she wouldn't be in the top 200. elena, with her shitty serve, is two ranking spots below maria. hm. what does this say?

elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, can still beat all of the top players. this is something maria can't do...hm. elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has been in a slam final more recently than sharapova. and elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has defeated justine in the semis of an important event...which is something maria can't attest to...ever. :tape:

You could probably also make a case that if everybody else in the top 10 didn't have a serve, they wouldn't be where they are. And because Dementieva has a "shitty serve", she has accomodated the rest of her game so that it doesn't get affected by a double fault or something. Sharapova normally has a good serve, so her game is built with her serve in consideration. I'm sure if Sharapova didn't have a good serve, she would accomodate the rest of her game so that she could make up for bad serving by returning well. That's what Dementieva does, so I don't think that minus the serve, Sharapova is a worse player is a valid argument.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:37 AM
um...

what does elena have to do with anything?

first of all, elena has defeated maria before. she's also defeated justine, kim, and amelie within in the past YEAR, and let's see...that's something maria has NEVER done. oh wait she beat a rusty justine ONCE in three sets (that was justine's first tourny back after a long layoff, btw)

if maria didn't have a serve, she wouldn't be in the top 200. elena, with her shitty serve, is two ranking spots below maria. hm. what does this say?

elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, can still beat all of the top players. this is something maria can't do...hm. elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has been in a slam final more recently than sharapova. and elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has defeated justine in the semis of an important event...which is something maria can't attest to...ever. :tape:

:spit:

Bitch please. :o

You need to get out of your fantasy world. :rolleyes:

Maria is way better than Elena hence the 6-1 6-4 victory days ago. ;)

:haha: @ Maria wouldn't be in the top 200 if she didn't have a good serve. :lol:

Her groundies are still in the top 3 of this tour ahead of Elena. She's more consistent than Elena, constructs points better, and finishes off points better than Elena. :)

Nuff said. :wavey:

kyk710
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:44 AM
I don't think Maria plays with the same fearlessness and confidence as she did in Wimbledon 2004. Now she gets tentative on the big points instead of doing what the players who win the slams do : play better the tenser it gets. That's why she hasn't won a slam since. Maybe it does have something to do with that loss to Serena, but who knows?

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:45 AM
Now you're just sounding desperate to defend Elena D. And Maria not in the top 200 if she didn't have a serve? lol

i don't think she would be. she has a great backhand and that's it.
she sucks at net, she's not a good mover.
she's better than elena because elena can't break her. sharapova is better than elena. there's no disputing this.

but elena can beat the top 3, maria can't.

kyk710
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:45 AM
You're joking, right? :unsure:
Just read his signature : "delusional dementieva fan"

enough said. ;)

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:46 AM
*death*

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:49 AM
:spit: Bitch please.

You need to get out of your fantasy world. :rolleyes:

Maria is way better than Elena hence the 6-1 6-4 victory days ago. ;)

:haha: @ Maria wouldn't be in the top 200 if she didn't have a good serve. :lol:

Her groundies are still in the top 3 of this tour ahead of Elena. She's more consistent than Elena, constructs points better, and finishes off points better than Elena. :)

Nuff said. :wavey:

i never said maria wasn't better than elena. i'm saying elena has beaten the top 3 more times than maria, without a 'serve'. and i only started defending elena cuz idiots in here are bashing her...as well as every other top player.

and i don't think maria has better groundies than elena...but that's why we all have opinions.

on an aside, your attitude isn't necessary. please grow up.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:49 AM
i don't think she would be. she has a great backhand and that's it.
she sucks at net, she's not a good mover.
she's better than elena because elena can't break her. sharapova is a better than elena. there's no disputing this.

but elena can beat the top 3, maria can't.


She doesn't suck at net. Her volleys aren't poor. It's her movement at net that is poor. But that will only get better.

Sharapova has a better serve and better groundstrokes. Elena moves better, but that's really it.

Quit drinking that haterade. :o

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:50 AM
Just read his signature : "delusional dementieva fan"

enough said. ;)

i know, right?

i'm only delusional in the fact that i think she will win slams and own the world someday.

there's no doubting that elena can beat the top 3 and maria can't. :wavey:

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:50 AM
but elena can beat the top 3, maria can't.
see the reasons posted earlier...Lena is in a different physical league than Maria atm, being what 5 years older? The gap will close though

waratahsrock
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:52 AM
elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, can still beat all of the top players. this is something maria can't do...hm. elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has been in a slam final more recently than sharapova. and elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has defeated justine in the semis of an important event...which is something maria can't attest to...ever. :tape:

I'd rather be in Maria's position to be honest, at least she HAS WON a slam. So what if Elena's been in a final more recently, it's not like she won it.
I'm sure Elena would trade her GS finals for the success Maria has had.

serenafan08
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:52 AM
what is your problem with maria! just cause she beat youre fav player in wimby 2004! doesnt me you have to slate her all the time! at the moment i would say maria has a much better chance of winning another slam than serena! also its not that maria has been mentally weak its that she has been beaten by better players on the day! that does not make her a choker! you really have it in for maria! how does maria nit have it when it comes down to the crunch! that is absolute rubbish! she beat your precious serena! in wimby 2004! leave maria alone shes young and will improve she is improving all the time and i as a fan of her recognise she is trying to learn but things dont happen overnight!!!
:rolleyes: You completely missed the point of what I was saying. I couldn't care less about her beating Serena in '04 - hell it was a miracle that Serena even got to the final because Amelie should have beat her!!! I'm not slating anyone - I'm just stating facts. Like I said, people said the same things about Serena, Venus and Justine when they weren't winning. Your post is a perfect example of how people make excuses for Maria's inability to win the big matches. Age is nothing but a number. I don't care if she won Wimbledon when she was 10 - with that win comes the expectation to repeat. She's feeling the pressure of those expectations, and that's obvious. I'm a tennis fan with a keen eye and I know what I see: I see a player who's struggling under the limelight - period. She was the favorite to win each of those semifinal matches she lost. If Maria doesn't crumble in the clutch, why hasn't she won another Grand Slam? Why does she have losing records to Justine, Amelie and Kim? Why can't she ever come through with her cakewalk draws at every major??? It's because the pressure is too great - that's all I'm saying. Even John McEnroe said it during her semifinal against Amelie - she hasn't come through since Wimbledon because the weight of expectation is too great. And that's fine because she's just as human as every other player on tour. Every player has a weakness, and it's nothing to panic about because Maria can develop her way out of it - and I think eventually she will. The question is when that will happen.

Serena had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. That's another example of Maria fans trying to bring Serena into a thread about Maria. Y'all need to quit being so paronoid!!! Maria is human and she's subjected to human criticism just like everyone else.

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:53 AM
She doesn't suck at net. Her volleys aren't poor. It's her movement at net that is poor. But that will only get better.

Sharapova has a better serve and better groundstrokes. Elena moves better, but that's really it.

Quit drinking that haterade. :o

i'm not a sharapova hater. i don't think she's a bad player, but she's not as good as the top 3 and she's not as super-talented as you think she is. and when you say groundstrokes, you really mean to say that shara has a better forehand than elena? seriously?

i sorta thought i was delusional sometimes for defending elena, but you shara fans are a trip. :spit:

see the reasons posted earlier...Lena is in a different physical league than Maria atm, being what 5 years older? The gap will close though

let me guess. maria's only 19. yawn.
it's tired.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:54 AM
i never said maria wasn't better than elena. i'm saying elena has beaten the top 3 more times than maria, without a 'serve'. and i only started defending elena cuz idiots in here are bashing her...as well as every other top player.

and i don't think maria has better groundies than elena...but that's why we all have opinions.

on an aside, your attitude isn't necessary. please grow up.

Bitch please. :o

Elena may have more wins over top players, but she also has more losses to lower ranked players. :tape:

Elena a lot of the time loses matches not just because of her serve, but because she's making a lot of errors off the baseline.

Usually if Maria is struggling against lower ranked players she still finds a way to win (like vs. Pennetta). She can raise her level when needed.

Elena loses to top players because of her serve and she makes too many errors sometimes.

Maria loses to top players because she isn't phyiscally ready yet to beat them.


And about the attitude, yes I do have attitude. :cool:

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:57 AM
let me guess. maria's only 19. yawn.
it's tired.
its also true....but I didnt say it ;)

Apoleb
Jul 10th, 2006, 05:59 AM
if maria didn't have a serve

What if she didn't have a forehand? :rolleyes:

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:02 AM
Elena may have more wins over top players, but she also has more losses to lower ranked players. :tape:

and your point is? no one's arguing that elena is better than maria. maybe if you'd get your head out of your ass long enough to realize this fact, you'd realize your whole argument crumbles. i just said, for not having a serve, elena can beat the top 3. maria can't...and she has a serve. go figure.


Elena a lot of the time loses matches not just because of her serve, but because she's making a lot of errors off the baseline.

Usually if Maria is struggling against lower ranked players she still finds a way to win (like vs. Pennetta). She can raise her level when needed.

like vs. Jamea Jackson? Dinara Safina? Svetlana Kuznetsova? oops.
anyway, see elena's 3 set record and write back to me when you get a clue.


Elena loses to top players because of her serve and she makes too many errors sometimes.

gee. isn't that why most players lose? they get their serve broken and make more unforced errors than their opponent? you're really getting me here with this logic.


Maria loses to top players because she isn't phyiscally ready yet to beat them.

wow, i just love your BS. us elena fans can be delusional, but you really take it to a new level. she was READY to beat serena to win wimbledon and the yec, but not ready to beat JHH/Clijsters/Mauresmo, players who serena own. yes. this makes COMPLETE sense. maria is a one trick pony. she beats players that she's supposed to beat and crumbles against anyone who can do more.


And about the attitude, yes I do have attitude. :cool:

you shouldn't. you're not that intelligent.

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:04 AM
its also true....but I didnt say it ;)

hingis was 'only' 17 when she won all those majors. guess she wasn't physically ready, either.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:05 AM
you shouldn't. you're not that intelligent.

Gee, I guess being in the National Honor Society means nothing these days. :(

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:06 AM
Gee, I guess being in the National Honor Society means nothing these days. :(

it doesn't.

you started all this 'bitch please' 'i've got a bitchy attitude' shit because i dare use elena and semipova in the same sentence. if you wanted to be nice, i would have been cordial too, but you being in the NHS doesn't change the fact that you can't read/have comprehension issues and that your arguments make absolutely no sense.

peace.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:08 AM
like vs. Jamea Jackson? Dinara Safina? Svetlana Kuznetsova? oops.
anyway, see elena's 3 set record and write back to me when you get a clue.

Kuznetsova was on fire in Miami, she was the better player by far.

Maria lacked match play when she played Dinara and Jamea. Coming back from an injury is not easy. :rolleyes: But she still got to the SF, better than all three of them can say! :wavey:

Yes, I know Elena has a great 3 set record. But 3/4 of the people she needs 3 sets to beat she shouldn't. :o Maria doesn't need 3 sets to beat people ranked #25-150. :tape:

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:09 AM
it doesn't.

Thanks for ruining my perfect life. :sad:

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:09 AM
hingis was 'only' 17 when she won all those majors. guess she wasn't physically ready, either.
Different story and you know it...Hingis started in different times but still is a different player and was shown to not be able to compete as strongly phyisically in later years.

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:12 AM
Kuznetsova was on fire in Miami, she was the better player by far.

and this still remains true. nothing like a good sharpy beatdown every now and then.


Maria lacked match play when she played Dinara and Jamea. Coming back from an injury is not easy. :rolleyes:

tell that to justine when she lost to maria in three sets. because that's the only time maria has ever beaten the current top 3. ever.


Yes, I know Elena has a great 3 set record. But 3/4 of the people she needs 3 sets to beat she shouldn't. :o

and you said:



Usually if Maria is struggling against lower ranked players she still finds a way to win (like vs. Pennetta). She can raise her level when needed.


elena finds ways to win when she's not playing well, as well.
she raises her level and wins. that's the deal. you said it yourself.

---

ok this shit is too easy. bedtime.

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:13 AM
Different story and you know it...Hingis started in different times but still is a different player and was shown to not be able to compete as strongly phyisically in later years.

well...i mean...i don't understand your logic then. you're saying maria's too young to win another GS/beat the current top 3...but no one else has ever been 'too young' and won? :confused:

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:14 AM
it doesn't.

you started all this 'bitch please' 'i've got a bitchy attitude' shit because i dare use elena and semipova in the same sentence. if you wanted to be nice, i would have been cordial too, but you being in the NHS doesn't change the fact that you can't read/have comprehension issues and that your arguments make absolutely no sense.

peace.
Jedem is just a master of the forum street lingo :haha:
..behind that he comprehends just fine and his arguements dont make anywhere near as little sense as saying Maria wouldnt be top 200 if she couldnt serve as well.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:15 AM
elena finds ways to win when she's not playing well, as well.
she raises her level and wins. that's the deal. you said it yourself.

---

ok this shit is too easy. bedtime.


She makes things a lot harder for herself than Maria does.

Funny that I am arguing with you because Maria isn't one of my top few favorites. :o

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:17 AM
Jedem is just a master of the forum street lingo :haha:
..behind that he comprehends just fine and his arguements dont make anywhere near as little sense as saying Maria wouldnt be top 200 if she couldnt serve as well.

:worship: :lol: ;)

And anyways NNF, the whole "bitch please" thing was meant to lighten things up, not to make you mad. :angel: :o

Dan23
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:19 AM
well...i mean...i don't understand your logic then. you're saying maria's too young to win another GS/beat the current top 3...but no one else has ever been 'too young' and won? :confused:
wha?
We were talking physical werent we? I never said Maria is too young, she could easily have beaten them if certain things went different ways in their matches. Im saying shes not as strong or durable as the others at this stage but is better than she was.

Derek.
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:19 AM
but you being in the NHS doesn't change the fact that you can't read/have comprehension issues and that your arguments make absolutely no sense.

peace.

How would I get into the NHS if I had reading and comprehension problems?

Don't you think I'd be at the local learning center for extra help rather than be at the NHS ceremony? :confused:

WIMBLY2004
Jul 10th, 2006, 06:42 AM
elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, can still beat all of the top players. this is something maria can't do...hm. elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has been in a slam final more recently than sharapova. and elena dementieva, shitty serve and all, has defeated justine in the semis of an important event...which is something maria can't attest to...ever. :tape:

Remember IW final? In that kind of wind, nobody served well, acturall Maria had more DFs than Dementieva, but Maria still beat Dementieva with ground strokes :lol:

Kunal
Jul 10th, 2006, 08:58 AM
yea...that is the thing...she has all the time since her big win..lost to someone that is just better than her....its not like she played really bad...she just got outplayed...´her current level is not good enough for slam success

furrykitten
Jul 10th, 2006, 11:04 AM
Just give Maria more time, she has years ahead of her to win Titles, look how long it took Kim and Mauresmo to win their first Gran Slam, Maria won her first at 17! :hearts: :worship:

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Just give Maria more time, she has years ahead of her to win Titles, look how long it took Kim and Mauresmo to win their first Gran Slam, Maria won her first at 17! :hearts: :worship:The problem with this thinking is that Maria is from Bradenton, so she had great coaching for 10 years.

Nadia has improved a lot in the past year.
Maria can't volley, can't construct points.
She can bash from the baseline, and serve well, but not with pace.

Wimbledon, with Amelie, Justine, Nadia, and Sveta -

will become more about volleying and passing shots
and less like Maria vs Lena

Lenafan
Jul 10th, 2006, 03:41 PM
Maria didn't fall off the face of the earth like Myskina and Kuznetsova did after they won their Slams. Myskina was going through some personal problems but Kuznetsova lost in the 1st round of the same Slam she won a year later! She owns Petrova and Dementieva. She's just not good enough to beat the top players yet and has been pointed out she doesn't have that one shot that opponents fear and people like Mauresmo are bad matchups for her because they can win in so many different ways and they have more talent than her. I think she's unfairly criticized because the hype machine over her is so out of control and her fans are quite immature(so are Henin's though). At the age of 19, she's already working on her net game and clearly she's uncomfortable. But I think that speaks volumes for her desire to be a champion one day - the fact that she's willing to try different things at such a young age when there are so many who are content to hang out on the baseline. She was the beneficary of a rain delay against Lindsay and played fearless tennis against Serena who was out of shape and coming off a knee injury. After all, she played Sugiyama in the quarters. And I think that Serena loss was tough to take. There should be no shame in losing to players like Clijsters, Mauresmo, or Serena for a 19 year old. And she has more desire than most girls at that age(Vaidisova has it) . In her interviews, she is quite mature in her outlook on the game and gives credit to her opponents when they beat her unlike Henin. She knows she's not the upper elite but she has no doubt in her mind she will be there one day. I think she will live up to her hype one day though and I believe she does a lot more with her talent than most people on the tour and will be a Grand Slam champion again.

goldenlox
Jul 10th, 2006, 03:52 PM
She doesn't own Nadia. Nadia won 23 of 24 this spring, beating Justine and Amelie.
Nadia is improving. She's a great athlete who can make any shot anywhere on the court.
Same for Sveta.

Maria has one style - quick, aggressive points.
If you make her play points, or pressure her, she's in deep trouble.

Lenafan
Jul 10th, 2006, 03:58 PM
She has beaten Nadia in the last 3 Grand Slam quarters she has played her on three different surfaces. In my book that's owning. Nadia has an all court game and is more experienced. How come she hasn't figured this strategy out?

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 04:27 PM
:worship: :lol: ;)

And anyways NNF, the whole "bitch please" thing was meant to lighten things up, not to make you mad. :angel: :o

i'm not mad, but i also don't know you...so i don't know why you're joking with me like we're buddies or something. :confused:

Jedem is just a master of the forum street lingo :haha:
..behind that he comprehends just fine and his arguements dont make anywhere near as little sense as saying Maria wouldnt be top 200 if she couldnt serve as well.

she wouldn't. fine, she wouldn't be top 100 with a shit serve. better? :)
and minus that one point you keep harping on, i've shut down every semipova argument. you're arguing that maria's not old enough to beat hh/clijsters/mauresmo for crying out loud because she's still growing. :rolleyes:

the one subjective thing i said was pounced upon. however, all of your arguments as to why sharapova can't win against the top players is also subjective. so...this indicates a lack of comprehension, yes.

No Name Face
Jul 10th, 2006, 04:29 PM
How would I get into the NHS if I had reading and comprehension problems?

Don't you think I'd be at the local learning center for extra help rather than be at the NHS ceremony? :confused:

i was being a dick, obviously. i'm sure you're smart and all that, but you got all bitchy without comprehending what i was saying. i didn't say elena was better than maria, i said elena can beat the top players and maria can't, so she's obviously not as good as you're making her out to be.

supergrunt
Jul 10th, 2006, 04:41 PM
Maria is good and she will win another slam :)