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CoryAnnAvants#1
Jun 12th, 2006, 07:48 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13249621/

NEW YORK - Cecil Hollins, the only African American among 30 or so gold badge tennis umpires in the world, was whacking tennis balls with another black umpire in the early morning hours before the start of play at the 1998 U.S. Open.

White umpires played on either side. But a white groundskeeper walked straight toward the black umpires.

Using a racial epithet, the groundskeeper ordered the black men to "get off the court," according to the sworn testimony of both umpires.

Hollins had refereed matches with Pete Sampras and Boris Becker and John McEnroe -- and even the brattiest stars had praised him. He often questioned why the U.S. Tennis Association would not assign him to umpire a men's singles final, an honor never accorded to a black man. But he knew how to keep his cool.

So Hollins walked off the practice court and reported the incident to the USTA.

But in the years since, the USTA stripped Hollins, 50, of his gold, silver, bronze and white umpire's badges. Three years ago, the association terminated him as an umpire. Hollins and a black female umpire have responded by suing the USTA, alleging racial, sex and age discrimination.

Now five members of Congress and several prominent civil rights and women's organizations have rallied to the side of the black umpires. They point to what they call a disturbing pattern.
No black man or woman in the history of the U.S. Open has umpired a men's semifinal or final singles match. Nor has a female umpire worked on any of the top 16 male matches at the U.S. Open, a point recently acknowledged in court papers filed by the USTA.

Of the 2,000 umpires certified by professional tennis's ruling bodies, less than 1 percent are black.

"I was the first gold-badge black umpire ever, and if I didn't have a conscience and could ignore that so many blacks and women are being discriminated against, I'd still be umpiring important matches," said Hollins, who serves as an administrative law judge with the state housing agency in New York.

Chris Widmaier, director of public relations for the U.S. Tennis Association, declined to comment on the case. Nor would he provide the number of black and female judges who work for the USTA nor the rounds and matches that those umpires had worked. The U.S. Open is the most prestigious tennis tournament in the United States, and it begins in late August.

"Obviously, we're not going to comment because of the litigation," Widmaier said.
New York City has given the USTA an exclusive 99-year-lease to run the public U.S. Tennis Center in Flushing Meadow. The association takes the lion's share of the profits from stadium, court and parking fees, as well as from food and merchandising revenue.

Last month, the USTA's attorney, Darrell S. Gay of DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary, wrote a four-page letter to Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (D-N.Y.) in which he declined to provide any information on the association's hiring of blacks and women or on how it assigns umpires to matches. But he accused Hollins's attorney, Gary Ireland, of "contacting every possible press contact he can identify."

Gay contended that Ireland and Hollins are motivated by "an apparent desire to receive significant economic benefit as opposed to . . . improvement for equal opportunities in sport."

Maloney said Gay's letter missed the point. The USTA runs a public court, she noted, and so has a special obligation to run an equal-opportunity workplace.

"The USTA is the face of tennis in America and it's important that they respond . . . quickly and fully," Maloney wrote in an e-mail to The Washington Post. "The public needs to be assured that an umpire's gender or ethnicity won't prevent them from working at the highest levels of their sport."

Professional tennis has long struggled with the race question. For centuries, the greatest players of tennis -- the favorite sport of the French and British aristocracy -- came out of private, all-white clubs. Professional tennis did not integrate until 1950, when such pioneers as Althea Gibson (who won the U.S. Open in 1957 and 1958) and, later, Arthur Ashe played in the tour.

The USTA in the past decade has embarked on a program to promote tennis, and it says that last year 1.1 million people played the sport for the first time, "of which 2 out of 5 people were of multicultural background."

But the success of such modern black stars as Venus and Serena Williams obscures the fact that the professional tour still has just a handful of black players.

"The tennis establishment likes to pat itself on the back for its minority tennis programs, but it's not translating into the professional ranks," said Sundiata Djata, a professor of history at Northern Illinois University and author of "Blacks at the Net: Black Achievement in the History of Tennis." "There are fewer blacks at the high end than in the 1970s."

Hollins is an unlikely rebel. A freckle-faced, lean and personable man, with a head of neat braids, he played a strong game of tennis in college. He became a lawyer and, while on vacation, took a shot at line umpiring. He loved it. For four years, he traveled across the nation and Europe, seeking out matches and schools for umpires.

By 1994, Hollins had acquired a gold badge. That was only three years after he reached the prestigious position of chair umpire, making his one of the fastest progressions in tennis history. He soon had Grand Slam credentials -- Wimbledon, the French Open and the Australian Open, as well as the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta. "I was out there umpiring matches with McEnroe, Becker and [Andre] Agassi," he recalls. "It was excitement beyond belief."

He envisioned sitting on the umpire's chair in Arthur Ashe Stadium overseeing the finals of the men's singles. Tennis-savvy black friends tamped down his expectations. "They told me, 'Cecil, don't get too excited. They don't let blacks work top matches.'

"I said, 'Naaaah, I'm a likable guy.' "

An umpire's life is a precarious one. If a star player takes a dislike to an umpire, that umpire might not get assigned to prominent matches. In the 2001 U.S. Open, the Australian tennis player Lleyton Hewitt complained that a black line judge favored James Blake, a player of mixed heritage. ("Look at him and look at him, and you tell me what the similarity is," Hewitt demanded of the umpire).

The USTA did not discipline Hewitt, and the line umpires in his next match were white, a result that officials attributed to random computerized assignments.

Hollins rarely encountered a problem with a player. But he began to speak out internally, asking why the USTA had not placed more blacks and women in the umpire chair for prominent matches. Then came the incident at U.S. Open in 1998, in which he says the white groundskeeper hurled a racial insult at him and Alvin Penelton, a black umpire from East St. Louis.

Hollins reported the incident to the USTA and, later, he spoke with the director of officials, Richard Kaufman. Hollins gave this version of that conversation: "Kaufman told us, 'You're lucky you're not thrown out of the tournament. Get out of my office!' "

USTA officials would not comment on this or any other incident.

Penelton, who has retired from Anheuser-Busch Inc. in St. Louis and still works major tournaments as a line umpire, backed up Hollins's account.

"It's hard to believe, but that's the way it happened," he said in an interview. "Cecil was moving too fast for them. He had gone to the top of the game in no time, and he had the sort of personality that attracted people."

Penelton paused, and added: "Race? I've got to say that's the bottom line, unfortunately."

Hollins was demoted and denied assignments in the next few years. In 2005, he stood by the Arthur Ashe statue outside the tennis center in Queens and wrapped his waist in chains and raised his fist, while supporters handed out leaflets explaining the situation.

"I could have done what black people do all the time in everyday life: Take it without saying a word," Hollins said. "But if Colin Powell can be secretary of state, and Hillary Clinton can run for president, doesn't it make sense they should be able to umpire a men's singles final at the U.S. Open?"

Kenny
Jun 12th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Wow. Totally needs to be changed. I believe this man, whole-heartedly.

Denise4925
Jun 12th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Who knew?? Wow. I was planning on going to the US Open this year, but now after reading this, do I really want to contribute to this climate?

kosmikgroove
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:04 PM
I remember hearing that there has never been a female umpire in the Finals of a men's GS, but this news is just utterly shocking and distrubing.

I hope it gets resolved soon... It never surprises me when an age old institution which acts at the forefront of public attention in their respective fields of interest, are ironically ass-backwards.

meyerpl
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Lleyton Hewitt needs a kick in the ass, and it sounds like the USTA needs some serious house-cleaning. Sickening.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:29 PM
For the record, the USTA's comment about random computer selection for the linesmen regarding what court they get put in is total bullshit. If you're less experienced or not as good, they stick you in the qualifying or on the back courts of the main draw. The showcourts are for the people who know what they're doing. Period.

In a few rare cases though, players will request a certain linesmen or ballkid to be at their age. Lindsay always has a particular boy that she likes work her matches at the US Open. She even gave him a hug after she lost to Clijsters at the US Open a couple of years ago.

Volcana
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:30 PM
The U.S. Open series starts in a month or so. The USTA had better get out in front of this story one way or another. And the arguement that a plaintiff is motivated by financial gain is disingenuous. The USTA isn't disputing the truth of his accusations at all. ANd while many people and organizations refuse to comment of pending litigation, they do usually make a point of proclaming their innocence.

And now that a bunch of professional grandstanders predatory slime self-interested attention-hogs highly altruistic politicians have been added to the mix, it'll be a harder story to kill.

This is gonna end with, "We don't admit there is a problem. We don't admit there was a problem. But we fixed it. And we don't admit that we paid the people who sued us either, but they'll never work another day in their lives."

meyerpl
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:37 PM
The U.S. Open series starts in a month or so. The USTA had better get out in front of this story one way or another. And the arguement that a plaintiff is motivated by financial gain is disingenuous. The USTA isn't disputing the truth of his accusations at all. ANd while many people and organizations refuse to comment of pending litigation, they do usually make a point of proclaming their innocence.

And now that a bunch of professional grandstanders predatory slime self-interested attention-hogs highly altruistic politicians have been added to the mix, it'll be a harder story to kill.
This is gonna end with, "We don't admit there is a problem. We don't admit there was a problem. But we fixed it. And we don't admit that we paid the people who sued us either, but they'll never work another day in their lives."
Excellent post, all of it.

eugreene2
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:40 PM
This is why, as silly as he may act sometimes, I'm glad Richard Williams is the way he is. In as much as Venus & Serena's stardom has shielded them from some racism, I also believe the USTA knows that Richard Williams would cause a nation-wide ruckus if they tried some racist BS. This is another reason they are correct for never going back to IW. Because they are such stand-up girls, I'm sure we'll never even know some of the racist stuff that happens on tour, let alone with umpires.

pigam
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:41 PM
wow! this is bad :eek:

Hope there will be more brave people like this man who will make this public, it's the only way to generate enough pressure to change it, probably.

pigam
Jun 12th, 2006, 09:42 PM
This is why, as silly as he may act sometimes, I'm glad Richard Williams is the way he is. In as much as Venus & Serena's stardom has shielded them from some racism, I also believe the USTA knows that Richard Williams would cause a nation-wide ruckus if they tried some racist BS. This is another reason they are correct for never going back to IW. Because they are such stand-up girls, I'm sure we'll never even know some of the racist stuff that happens on tour, let alone with umpires.
agreed about IW,
The only thing is wish for is that venus and Seean were maybe a bit more outspoken on WHY exactly they don't go back there, so that people would realise!! Or is this too much of a "sensitive subject"? Just asking, i'm interested since I have no clue how this is perceived in the USA.

kabuki
Jun 12th, 2006, 11:00 PM
Obviously we haven't seen all of the facts, but it clearly appears damning for the USTA. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Somehow I have the feeling we are going to see more minority umps this summer, esp. at televised matches. Kind of like, "Look, see, we ARE inclusive!!"

GracefulVenus
Jun 12th, 2006, 11:08 PM
oooooohhhh we.......the race card is played and people are in trouble......really alarming numbers though. But I have to say that there are more whites involved in the game than blacks. I'm Black and just got interested in tennis two years ago. Not really a popular sport in my neighborhood or most Black neighborhoods. Not defending, just putting it out there.

Black Mamba.
Jun 12th, 2006, 11:52 PM
I'll hold judgement until more info comes out. However, I will say that if true this is hardly suprising or shocking.

TonyP
Jun 12th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Lleyton Hewitt is probably not a member of the USTA, as he is an Australian, so there would seem no way for the USTA to discipline him. And discipline him for what, suggesting that a black person might be prejudiced ? Do we discipline black people for suggesting whites might be prejudiced?

Its called freedom of speech and it has to apply equally to everyone, no matter what their race.

auntie janie
Jun 13th, 2006, 12:04 AM
Good for Mr. Hollins for speaking up! He was right to go public with his case; people need to understand what's going on. The USTA really needs a shake-up and maybe this case can get the ball rolling.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 13th, 2006, 01:14 AM
This is why, as silly as he may act sometimes, I'm glad Richard Williams is the way he is. In as much as Venus & Serena's stardom has shielded them from some racism, I also believe the USTA knows that Richard Williams would cause a nation-wide ruckus if they tried some racist BS. This is another reason they are correct for never going back to IW. Because they are such stand-up girls, I'm sure we'll never even know some of the racist stuff that happens on tour, let alone with umpires.

:worship: That's why, regardless of whatever they do on the court, I will always have the UTMOST respect for the Williams family. I was watching an ESPN special on the family 2 years ago before Wimbledon, and one of the journalists were talking about how much racist mail they recieve when they even write ARTICLES about the sisters. And I'm more than 100% posititve they've been on the recieving end of a LOT more than they let onto. All we really know about is the IW incident, Serena's dog being drowned, derrogotory comments about them being made, and the whole 2003 FO thing. But I mean, Oracene did an EXCELLENT job of raising two exceptional young women who have learned to accept hardship as a part of life and not let it stop them....:worship::worship::worship::worship:ROLE MODEL doesn't even begin!

Scotso
Jun 13th, 2006, 01:52 AM
I have no doubt there's racism in that as there is in all things, but we still don't have the entire story.

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 01:59 AM
Let's see. An umpire alleges racism with the USTA umpire policies and somehow Venus and Serena come up. I just wanted to mention it since I'm supposedly the one always bringing the Williams Sisters up out of nowhere.
The USTA will probably tie this up as long as possible, making sure it doesn't become a big issue for the US Open. Also since the US Open is using electronic line calls for some of their courts, it will likely be less of an issue even if it's brought to the general public of the tennis world.
I do find the article disturbing BUT this is not the fault of just America. As the article says, "Of the 2,000 umpires certified by professional tennis's ruling bodies, less than 1 percent are black." I recall only seeing one black umpire at a slam in the last couple of years and that has been at the French Open. I've seen a couple of Spanish umpires as well. It's a tough occupation to get into from the couple of threads I have read about. The question is... should a black female umpire be replaced by someone such as Sandra De Jenkins just to stop what appears to be a glass ceiling? Is it going to help anyone if an incompetent black umpire is shown on Primetime American television to be so according to Shotspot? I mean we had it happen with a white umpire at Wimbledon and I don't recall him ever being able to be at any slam again. I'm not saying that Hollins wasn't a good umpire. He definately seems to be and his rapid decline from his occupation is suspicious at the least. I'm just saying that most of the female umpires I see are usually very good at what they do, would it be fair just to replace one with a black female umpire just because we can even if she doesn't have the experience of the other female umpires?

Dawn Marie
Jun 13th, 2006, 02:13 AM
Lleyton Hewitt is probably not a member of the USTA, as he is an Australian, so there would seem no way for the USTA to discipline him. And discipline him for what, suggesting that a black person might be prejudiced ? Do we discipline black people for suggesting whites might be prejudiced?

Its called freedom of speech and it has to apply equally to everyone, no matter what their race.

Tony P the article went entirely over your head. Like a Hingis overhead while playing Coetzer. Come on, stop the back peddling and either comment about the USTA racism or just ignore the thread. Your quotes are not about the lack of black umpires and women in big matches. Or the racism that is geared against blacks.


I admire this guy because he sacrificed his job and status to do the right thing. YOU GO GUY.

The USTA really needs to get with the program. Racist and sexist assholes. They need to start getting some top american women. Heck the way it looks now when Venus and Serena retire I'll be rooting for all the European players. And tennis outside of the USA.

GO CHINA, GO EUROUPE and GO INDIA!

Dawn Marie
Jun 13th, 2006, 02:36 AM
Let's see. An umpire alleges racism with the USTA umpire policies and somehow Venus and Serena come up. I just wanted to mention it since I'm supposedly the one always bringing the Williams Sisters up out of nowhere.
The USTA will probably tie this up as long as possible, making sure it doesn't become a big issue for the US Open. Also since the US Open is using electronic line calls for some of their courts, it will likely be less of an issue even if it's brought to the general public of the tennis world.
I do find the article disturbing BUT this is not the fault of just America. As the article says, "Of the 2,000 umpires certified by professional tennis's ruling bodies, less than 1 percent are black." I recall only seeing one black umpire at a slam in the last couple of years and that has been at the French Open. I've seen a couple of Spanish umpires as well. It's a tough occupation to get into from the couple of threads I have read about. The question is... should a black female umpire be replaced by someone such as Sandra De Jenkins just to stop what appears to be a glass ceiling? Is it going to help anyone if an incompetent black umpire is shown on Primetime American television to be so according to Shotspot? I mean we had it happen with a white umpire at Wimbledon and I don't recall him ever being able to be at any slam again. I'm not saying that Hollins wasn't a good umpire. He definately seems to be and his rapid decline from his occupation is suspicious at the least. I'm just saying that most of the female umpires I see are usually very good at what they do, would it be fair just to replace one with a black female umpire just because we can even if she doesn't have the experience of the other female umpires?

NO. At least not because of the glass ceiling as you so delicately put it. A black COMPETENT women should be ADDED to give her the opportunity to umpire high profile matches. Is it so hard for you to imagine a COMPETENT black women doing what Sandra does and even better?

The USTA needs to promote black women and men and give them big matches like they do the white counterpart.

Just because I see "a Jenkins" doing the job doesn't mean she is necessarily the BEST at it.

You seem to think that all the black umpires that are in the USTA are not as COMPETENT as a Jenkins. Only because you seen ONLY Jenkins doing the job. Dude get a grip on black reality, and SNAP OUT OF IT!

Kenny
Jun 13th, 2006, 02:50 AM
Let's see. An umpire alleges racism with the USTA umpire policies and somehow Venus and Serena come up. I just wanted to mention it since I'm supposedly the one always bringing the Williams Sisters up out of nowhere.


The article mentioned them.. :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:02 AM
NO. At least not because of the glass ceiling as you so delicately put it. A black COMPETENT women should be ADDED to give her the opportunity to umpire high profile matches. Is it so hard for you to imagine a COMPETENT black women doing what Sandra does and even better?

The USTA needs to promote black women and men and give them big matches like they do the white counterpart.

Just because I see "a Jenkins" doing the job doesn't mean she is necessarily the BEST at it.

You seem to think that all the black umpires that are in the USTA are not as COMPETENT as a Jenkins. Only because you seen ONLY Jenkins doing the job. Dude get a grip on black reality, and SNAP OUT OF IT!
I never said that I can't imagine a COMPETENT black women doing what Sandra does and even better. I just feel she should have to go through the same process that the other female umpires have. If that means taking four years or more to get to an important match at a slam then so be it. As the general public is able to see more close calls with small errors from computers, it's important that these umpires keep up as good as they can so their jobs aren't in danger. It wasn't that the umpire during the Venus vs. Sprem match was demoted because of his incompetence, he was demoted because the general public caught him and they complained. I've seen many incompetent umpires continue their ways because noone was really paying attention and assumed that the chair would never get the score wrong. I've seen many incompetent umpires get away with things because it isn't a big event.

Dawn Marie
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:04 AM
The article mentioned them.. :lol:


Yeah, This happens all the time. Venus and Serena won their slams and we saw Althea Gibson highlights. Monfils doing well and so we see his counterpart Noah. Blake vrs Ashe.

Somtimes people really get ignorant like MJF did this year when she HAD to mentioned Ai Sugiyama when the topic was refering to all the Chinese players that are coming up. Note: Chinese and Japanese people are not the same culture. It was s slip but I sure caught it.

Mr_Molik
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:05 AM
Hewitt *vomit* :help:

Dawn Marie
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:11 AM
I never said that I can't imagine a COMPETENT black women doing what Sandra does and even better. I just feel she should have to go through the same process that the other female umpires have. If that means taking four years or more to get to an important match at a slam then so be it. As the general public is able to see more close calls with small errors from computers, it's important that these umpires keep up as good as they can so their jobs aren't in danger. It wasn't that the umpire during the Venus vs. Sprem match was demoted because of his incompetence, he was demoted because the general public caught him and they complained.


I feel that you're out of touch. I didn't like your negative tone so I commented on it. no biggie.

You didn't have to SAY anything to me, it was your tone. You already think that any black women who is an umpire in the USTA is not competent enough to sit in a "JENKINS SEAT". You said nothing about maybe there are women out there who are TOO GOOD and IF NOT BETTER but just have never been given the opportunity to be SEEN or to show just what they have done for 14 years.

Again, SNAP OUT IF IT!

P.S. The article is telling you that a black man was denied his opportunity because of his skintone. And that he spoke out against the racism. What makes you think he's alone and that only males are involved?

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:22 AM
I feel that you're out of touch. I didn't like your negative tone so I commented on it. no biggie.

You didn't have to SAY anything to me, it was your tone. You already think that any black women who is an umpire in the USTA is not competent enough to sit in a "JENKINS SEAT". You said nothing about maybe there are women out there who are TOO GOOD and IF NOT BETTER but just have never been given the opportunity to be SEEN or to show just what they have done for 14 years.

Again, SNAP OUT IF IT!

P.S. The article is telling you that a black man was denied his opportunity because of his skintone. And that he spoke out against the racism. What makes you think he's alone and that only males are involved?
According to Sande French who also is apart of the lawsuit, no racism is not just a gender thing. I find the umpires to have a similarity to the WTA rankings though. Should I rank a person higher than another just on race even if they don't have better results??? You seem to be saying yes. I find that to be a bit extreme.

stevos
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Sorry to sound like a dumbass but what happened to Venus and Serena at IW????

Scotso
Jun 13th, 2006, 05:21 AM
Sorry to sound like a dumbass but what happened to Venus and Serena at IW????

Venus withdrew before the SF (she was supposed to play Serena) and the crowd badly booed Serena in the finals. It was really stupid.

Drake1980
Jun 13th, 2006, 05:22 AM
:eek:

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 13th, 2006, 05:44 AM
BOOOOO!!! The USTA should hang their heads in shame.

It's really sad to see such kind of racism still exists in tennis. They should publicly apologise heartfully and truthfully to the umpire.

meyerpl
Jun 13th, 2006, 05:59 AM
Venus withdrew before the SF (she was supposed to play Serena) and the crowd badly booed Serena in the finals. It was really stupid.
Didn't the crowd supposedly boo Serena because the prevailing feeling was that Venus' withdrawl was a free pass into the finals for Serena, orchestrated by Richard? I believe people who had bought tickets for the tournament thought they were getting screwed by the Williams'.
Was that the incident I'm thinking of?

Mother_Marjorie
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:31 AM
It sounds like there are a few bad seeds in the USTA organization. However, I think people should stop short of calling the entire USTA organization racist. I mean, the names Louis Armstrong and Arthur Ashe are permanent fixtures at Flushing Meadows.

I do think that a lawsuit is appropriate to investigate what happened and who is responsible, because those people seriously need to be weeded out of the USTA if they did what they are accused of.

Volcana
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:55 AM
oooooohhhh we.......the race card is playedRace isn't merely a card in this 'game'. It's woven into the fabric of the table. The phrase 'playing the race card' is, in essence, an attempt to make drawing attention to the white supremacist thread of American society seem like a tactic motivated by self-interest. The motivation is self-preservation. White privilege and White supremacisy comprise an ethos and belief system that not only justified murder, it led otherwise decent people to condone evil.

Yet, I think my vast majority of Americans do NOT condone this evil. Look at the 'riots' that followed the 'not guilty' verdict against LAPD officers following the videotaped assault on Rodney King. Americans of all races and ages, even neighborhoods without a single African-american, 'rioted' following a verdict that only could have been the result of a culture steeped in Aryan Supremacy. (And don't make the mistake of pretending the Blacks aren't believers in anti-Black White-Supremacy. White-Supremacy is NOT a disease restricted by race, class or culture.) The public rejected that patently absurd verdict. And made their rejection known in a way that was impossible to ignore.

Race is not a mere 'card'. It is not a tactic. For literally millions of Americans, it has been the defining fact of their lives. It has dictated where Americans could live, where they could eat, what jobs they could have, who their friends were.

I play no 'card' in pointing this out. Rather, call it forcing people to deal with the truth of race in America. yeah. I like that.

The 'truth' card has been played. Now the USTA gets to deal with it.

Brian Stewart
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:22 AM
Notice the article didn't say that no black men or black women had umpired a major men's match (semis or final) at a major, but that no women of any race had done so. Think about that for a second. Now look at some of the data mentioned in the article.

Hollins got his gold badge in 1994. Still had it in 1998. That's 5 seasons worh of gold-badging (94-98). In that period, there were 20 slams played, meaning 20 men's singles finals, and 40 men's singles semifinals. That's 60 significant men's matches just in the last 2 rounds. Yet neither Hollins, nor any of the women gold badge holders, happened to come up for selection for any of those matches? And we're supposed to believe it was random? It's not a lack of qualification, as gold badge is the highest certifcation they give. This goes beyond just the USTA, to the ITF itself. So forget about waiting until the US Open, let's hear what Wimbledon has to say.

And did you notice how you didn't read about this from one of the regular tennis writers. When this issue got some attention in the New York Times several weeks back, I sent an email to the heads of the International Tennis Writers Association, Matt Cronin and Eleanor Preston, and asked them why the tennis press had not addressed this, and other racial issues. I'm still waiting for a reply. (Matt has always replied quickly before.)

Want some more info about the USTA? Here's a few tidbits that you may not be aware of:

At a recent US Open, a friend of mine was attending with a couple of her friends. A small group of fans snuck into their section without tickets. Apparently the USTA got wind of it, as they sent an usher to investigate. But, instead of conducting a routine search, going from one end to the other until he found the culprits, the usher immediately went to my friend.s group, the only black people in the section, and demanded to see their tickets. My friend showed him their tickets, and then her displeasure. (She is not someone you want to piss off.) The usher had just assumed that the black people were the most likely suspects.

Meanwhile, on the development circuit, USTA officials are further stacking the deck against black players. Whenever there are such a number of players in a draw that only a handful have to play an opening round match, the black players always have to play that extra round. Even more-- the blacks that are victorious are required to play their next round, against a well-rested white player, that same day-- usually without being given the rule-mandated amount of between-match rest.

During matches, USTA officials fail to intercede when white parents encourage their child to call in balls "out" against a black opponent, or when the parents basically make the calls themselves. Worse, USTA officials have actively given advice to the opponents of black players during matches.

Then there is the matter of rankings manipulation. When rankings points for an event are added on, whether it's the professional level or the juniors, all of the results from a given tourney are supposed to go on together. But they aren't. The USTA has been adding positive results for their favored players more quickly, and good results for black players are added much later-- too late to affect entry/seedings for upcoming events. This results in denying black players entry into some events they should be in, or seedings (or higher seedings) in events they are in. All to ease the path of favored players, while making things more difficult for black players.

I'm betting, like Volcana suggested, the USTA will settle this particualr case in a non-guilt-admitting manner, rather than see it go to court and have some of the other dirty laundry aired. I wouldn't be surprised if the other slams encouraged the USTA to settle, and helped out with the finances. After all, their records aren't so good either.

LucasArg
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:37 AM
USTA:timebomb:

dreamgoddess099
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:40 AM
Sorry to sound like a dumbass but what happened to Venus and Serena at IW????
The National Enquirer (a US tabloid) ran a story claiming that Richard fixed the 2000 Wimbledon semis match between Venus and Serena, ordering Serena to lose. Fast forward to Indian Wells 2001. After Venus Beat her 6-0, 6-3 in the quarters, Elena D. was asked during her press conference who she thought was going to win in the semis between Venus and Serena. She spitefully replied that Richard would decide who would win between the sisters.

The day of the semis, Venus had to pull out of the tournament with an injury which led to Serena getting a walkover to the final. When Serena walked out on court to play Kim in the final, the crowd decided to take their anger out on Serena by badly booing her. They were suspeciously too willing to take the word of a tabloid( and a bitter defeated opponent) as gospel, when under most circumstances it would be regarded as just hearsay. They also chose to take Venus's withdrawal as undenieable proof that the sister's matches were fixed. When Venus and Richard came down the stairs making their way to their front row seats, they too were booed.

Richard claims that some of the angry people went for a little extra sting by yelling racial slurs. When asked, Venus later admitted she heard the same things Richard heard. The whole controversy is over why they were booed. Some say fans who'd paid to see Venus were angry with her for pulling out, while others say people believed Richard fixes the girls matches and made Venus pull out so Serena could get to the final. But the most disturbing part was Serena being booed. How many other players have ever been booed because their opponent withdrew from a match? Would an Evert or McEnroe been treated the same if their sibling would have pulled out of a match they were to play against eachother?

meyerpl
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:43 AM
I tip my hat to Brian Stewart for an EXCELLENT post. He is an articulate, informative and thought provoking writer who make a strong case for some long overdue attention to a shameful situation.

Oh, Volcana's post ain't exactly gibberish either. ;)

meyerpl
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:03 AM
The National Enquirer (a US tabloid) ran a story claiming that Richard fixed the 2000 Wimbledon semis match between Venus and Serena, ordering Serena to lose. Fast forward to Indian Wells 2001. After Venus Beat her 6-0, 6-3 in the quarters, Elena D. was asked during her press conference who she thought was going to win in the semis between Venus and Serena. She spitefully replied that Richard would decide who would win between the sisters.

The day of the semis, Venus had to pull out of the tournament with an injury which led to Serena getting a walkover to the final. When Serena walked out on court to play Kim in the final, the crowd decided to take their anger out on Serena by badly booing her. They were suspeciously too willing to take the word of a tabloid( and a bitter defeated opponent) as gospel, when under most circumstances it would be regarded as just hearsay. They also chose to take Venus's withdrawal as undenieable proof that the sister's matches were fixed. When Venus and Richard came down the stairs making their way to their front row seats, they too were booed.

Richard claims that some of the angry people went for a little extra sting by yelling racial slurs. When asked, Venus later admitted she heard the same things Richard heard. The whole controversy is over why they were booed. Some say fans who'd paid to see Venus were angry with her for pulling out, while others say people believed Richard fixes the girls matches and made Venus pull out so Serena could get to the final. But the most disturbing part was Serena being booed. How many other players have ever been booed because their opponent withdrew from a match? Would an Evert or McEnroe been treated the same if their sibling would have pulled out of a match they were to play against eachother?
Your whole post made sense until the last part, where you made a comparison that doesn't work: "How many other players would have been booed because their opponent withdrew from a match." Hardly an apt comparison. The situation was quite unique. You did a terrific job of explaining the circumstances that led up to the crowd booing Serena, Venus and Richard. The fans believed the fix was in, that they'd been cheated and duped. Who knows the truth? Not you or me. I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, but only Serena, Venus and Richard know for sure. Were there some racial slurs shouted? I wouldn't be a bit surprised. There are a few assholes in every crowd. Was the crowd's reaction racially motivated? I'm inclined to give the fans the benefit of the doubt too; I don't believe it was. In the context of all the stories and rumors, the events leading up to the final smelled more than a little bit fishy at the time.

ceiling_fan
Jun 13th, 2006, 10:46 AM
Notice the article didn't say that no black men or black women had umpired a major men's match (semis or final) at a major, but that no women of any race had done so. Think about that for a second. Now look at some of the data mentioned in the article.

Hollins got his gold badge in 1994. Still had it in 1998. That's 5 seasons worh of gold-badging (94-98). In that period, there were 20 slams played, meaning 20 men's singles finals, and 40 men's singles semifinals. That's 60 significant men's matches just in the last 2 rounds. Yet neither Hollins, nor any of the women gold badge holders, happened to come up for selection for any of those matches? And we're supposed to believe it was random? It's not a lack of qualification, as gold badge is the highest certifcation they give. This goes beyond just the USTA, to the ITF itself. So forget about waiting until the US Open, let's hear what Wimbledon has to say.

And did you notice how you didn't read about this from one of the regular tennis writers. When this issue got some attention in the New York Times several weeks back, I sent an email to the heads of the International Tennis Writers Association, Matt Cronin and Eleanor Preston, and asked them why the tennis press had not addressed this, and other racial issues. I'm still waiting for a reply. (Matt has always replied quickly before.)

Want some more info about the USTA? Here's a few tidbits that you may not be aware of:

At a recent US Open, a friend of mine was attending with a couple of her friends. A small group of fans snuck into their section without tickets. Apparently the USTA got wind of it, as they sent an usher to investigate. But, instead of conducting a routine search, going from one end to the other until he found the culprits, the usher immediately went to my friend.s group, the only black people in the section, and demanded to see their tickets. My friend showed him their tickets, and then her displeasure. (She is not someone you want to piss off.) The usher had just assumed that the black people were the most likely suspects.

Meanwhile, on the development circuit, USTA officials are further stacking the deck against black players. Whenever there are such a number of players in a draw that only a handful have to play an opening round match, the black players always have to play that extra round. Even more-- the blacks that are victorious are required to play their next round, against a well-rested white player, that same day-- usually without being given the rule-mandated amount of between-match rest.

During matches, USTA officials fail to intercede when white parents encourage their child to call in balls "out" against a black opponent, or when the parents basically make the calls themselves. Worse, USTA officials have actively given advice to the opponents of black players during matches.

Then there is the matter of rankings manipulation. When rankings points for an event are added on, whether it's the professional level or the juniors, all of the results from a given tourney are supposed to go on together. But they aren't. The USTA has been adding positive results for their favored players more quickly, and good results for black players are added much later-- too late to affect entry/seedings for upcoming events. This results in denying black players entry into some events they should be in, or seedings (or higher seedings) in events they are in. All to ease the path of favored players, while making things more difficult for black players.

I'm betting, like Volcana suggested, the USTA will settle this particualr case in a non-guilt-admitting manner, rather than see it go to court and have some of the other dirty laundry aired. I wouldn't be surprised if the other slams encouraged the USTA to settle, and helped out with the finances. After all, their records aren't so good either.

The content in the whole post just pisses me off, especially the bolded bit. Btw, that means i'm agreeing with u ;)

anyway, i'm disgusted to think that this goes on and i'm annoyed that matt hasn't replied to you. something needs to be done.

Chance
Jun 13th, 2006, 01:01 PM
:worship: That's why, regardless of whatever they do on the court, I will always have the UTMOST respect for the Williams family. I was watching an ESPN special on the family 2 years ago before Wimbledon, and one of the journalists were talking about how much racist mail they recieve when they even write ARTICLES about the sisters. And I'm more than 100% posititve they've been on the recieving end of a LOT more than they let onto. All we really know about is the IW incident, Serena's dog being drowned, derrogotory comments about them being made, and the whole 2003 FO thing. But I mean, Oracene did an EXCELLENT job of raising two exceptional young women who have learned to accept hardship as a part of life and not let it stop them....:worship::worship::worship::worship:ROLE MODEL doesn't even begin!

Mrserenawilliams, can you explain that part ^^

Great post Brain Stewart!!!

Meyerpl- those weren't fans at the IW final, that was a MOB out to get Serena. NO PLAYER should go through what Serena went through.

Grafiati
Jun 13th, 2006, 01:34 PM
I have to say that I have seen Cecil Hollins at various events and he IS a very well-liked umpire, very personable and professional at the same time... did I miss something in the article or did he just plain get demoted for no logical reason at all? In my experience with how the USTA higherups act, I would not be surprised if there is rampant racism, and it saddens me... note that I am a white man and am ashamed that such a thing could happen in this era. I hope that this story will get more publicity and find itself a nice solution.

stevos
Jun 13th, 2006, 01:39 PM
The National Enquirer (a US tabloid) ran a story claiming that Richard fixed the 2000 Wimbledon semis match between Venus and Serena, ordering Serena to lose. Fast forward to Indian Wells 2001. After Venus Beat her 6-0, 6-3 in the quarters, Elena D. was asked during her press conference who she thought was going to win in the semis between Venus and Serena. She spitefully replied that Richard would decide who would win between the sisters.

The day of the semis, Venus had to pull out of the tournament with an injury which led to Serena getting a walkover to the final. When Serena walked out on court to play Kim in the final, the crowd decided to take their anger out on Serena by badly booing her. They were suspeciously too willing to take the word of a tabloid( and a bitter defeated opponent) as gospel, when under most circumstances it would be regarded as just hearsay. They also chose to take Venus's withdrawal as undenieable proof that the sister's matches were fixed. When Venus and Richard came down the stairs making their way to their front row seats, they too were booed.

Richard claims that some of the angry people went for a little extra sting by yelling racial slurs. When asked, Venus later admitted she heard the same things Richard heard. The whole controversy is over why they were booed. Some say fans who'd paid to see Venus were angry with her for pulling out, while others say people believed Richard fixes the girls matches and made Venus pull out so Serena could get to the final. But the most disturbing part was Serena being booed. How many other players have ever been booed because their opponent withdrew from a match? Would an Evert or McEnroe been treated the same if their sibling would have pulled out of a match they were to play against eachother?

Thanks very much for explaining. Never knew why they never played there, till now obv.

Thauron
Jun 13th, 2006, 02:08 PM
The USTA is in a sad state if everything in this article is true. I also disagree with those that this must be about the mistakes of several individuals, not the USTA as a whole.

If clear examples are being reported and no-one acts upon it - on the contrary, it seems that those reporting the problems and speaking up are actually punished - than it is the organization as a whole which functions in a racist climate, not only some individuals. Brian Stewart's post also illustrated this.
Some severe measures seem to be necessary here - maybe the WTA and the ATP can take some actions - in soccer the FIFA and the UEFA took measures and launched actions when racism was a problem. As far as I can see, these actions had a positive effect.

Pathetic hewitt.

meyerpl
Jun 13th, 2006, 02:22 PM
Mrserenawilliams, can you explain that part ^^

Great post Brain Stewart!!!

Meyerpl- those weren't fans at the IW final, that was a MOB out to get Serena. NO PLAYER should go through what Serena went through.
I didn't see it, so I don't know exactly what Serena went through. I was only speculating/asking about why; what the crowd was reacting to. It doesn't sound like a good situation, regardless of what prompted the crowd to behave the way they did. It sounds like the crowd got really ugly.

Rocketta
Jun 13th, 2006, 02:42 PM
wow, what a mess. :(

Kudos to Hollins for speaking up and I love the protest of chaining himself to AA's statue. :worship:

and not only did the fans and Elena act scandalous...so did the commentators...it was what they had to say that didn't diffuse the situation eventhough they know the tournament doctor himself said Venus shouldn't play. :worship:

I will be very disappointed in V or S if they ever go back to IW..:(

Dawn Marie
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Notice the article didn't say that no black men or black women had umpired a major men's match (semis or final) at a major, but that no women of any race had done so. Think about that for a second. Now look at some of the data mentioned in the article.

Hollins got his gold badge in 1994. Still had it in 1998. That's 5 seasons worh of gold-badging (94-98). In that period, there were 20 slams played, meaning 20 men's singles finals, and 40 men's singles semifinals. That's 60 significant men's matches just in the last 2 rounds. Yet neither Hollins, nor any of the women gold badge holders, happened to come up for selection for any of those matches? And we're supposed to believe it was random? It's not a lack of qualification, as gold badge is the highest certifcation they give. This goes beyond just the USTA, to the ITF itself. So forget about waiting until the US Open, let's hear what Wimbledon has to say.

And did you notice how you didn't read about this from one of the regular tennis writers. When this issue got some attention in the New York Times several weeks back, I sent an email to the heads of the International Tennis Writers Association, Matt Cronin and Eleanor Preston, and asked them why the tennis press had not addressed this, and other racial issues. I'm still waiting for a reply. (Matt has always replied quickly before.)

Want some more info about the USTA? Here's a few tidbits that you may not be aware of:

At a recent US Open, a friend of mine was attending with a couple of her friends. A small group of fans snuck into their section without tickets. Apparently the USTA got wind of it, as they sent an usher to investigate. But, instead of conducting a routine search, going from one end to the other until he found the culprits, the usher immediately went to my friend.s group, the only black people in the section, and demanded to see their tickets. My friend showed him their tickets, and then her displeasure. (She is not someone you want to piss off.) The usher had just assumed that the black people were the most likely suspects.

Meanwhile, on the development circuit, USTA officials are further stacking the deck against black players. Whenever there are such a number of players in a draw that only a handful have to play an opening round match, the black players always have to play that extra round. Even more-- the blacks that are victorious are required to play their next round, against a well-rested white player, that same day-- usually without being given the rule-mandated amount of between-match rest.

During matches, USTA officials fail to intercede when white parents encourage their child to call in balls "out" against a black opponent, or when the parents basically make the calls themselves. Worse, USTA officials have actively given advice to the opponents of black players during matches.

Then there is the matter of rankings manipulation. When rankings points for an event are added on, whether it's the professional level or the juniors, all of the results from a given tourney are supposed to go on together. But they aren't. The USTA has been adding positive results for their favored players more quickly, and good results for black players are added much later-- too late to affect entry/seedings for upcoming events. This results in denying black players entry into some events they should be in, or seedings (or higher seedings) in events they are in. All to ease the path of favored players, while making things more difficult for black players.

I'm betting, like Volcana suggested, the USTA will settle this particualr case in a non-guilt-admitting manner, rather than see it go to court and have some of the other dirty laundry aired. I wouldn't be surprised if the other slams encouraged the USTA to settle, and helped out with the finances. After all, their records aren't so good either.

Thanks Brian for the post. I am not surprised at all but it does make you mad. The ITF and The USTA need someone watching over them. Sorry that your friends were racial profiled.

Kunal
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:46 PM
if this is true....by the looks of it, it is....

USTA should be grilled on this issue until people get some answers.

respect to the ref who did what he did.

Kunal
Jun 13th, 2006, 03:50 PM
gotta agree there.....an excellent thread

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Let's see. An umpire alleges racism with the USTA umpire policies and somehow Venus and Serena come up. I just wanted to mention it since I'm supposedly the one always bringing the Williams Sisters up out of nowhere.
The USTA will probably tie this up as long as possible, making sure it doesn't become a big issue for the US Open. Also since the US Open is using electronic line calls for some of their courts, it will likely be less of an issue even if it's brought to the general public of the tennis world.
I do find the article disturbing BUT this is not the fault of just America. As the article says, "Of the 2,000 umpires certified by professional tennis's ruling bodies, less than 1 percent are black." I recall only seeing one black umpire at a slam in the last couple of years and that has been at the French Open. I've seen a couple of Spanish umpires as well. It's a tough occupation to get into from the couple of threads I have read about. The question is... should a black female umpire be replaced by someone such as Sandra De Jenkins just to stop what appears to be a glass ceiling? Is it going to help anyone if an incompetent black umpire is shown on Primetime American television to be so according to Shotspot? I mean we had it happen with a white umpire at Wimbledon and I don't recall him ever being able to be at any slam again. I'm not saying that Hollins wasn't a good umpire. He definately seems to be and his rapid decline from his occupation is suspicious at the least. I'm just saying that most of the female umpires I see are usually very good at what they do, would it be fair just to replace one with a black female umpire just because we can even if she doesn't have the experience of the other female umpires?
What is wrong with you? Why do you assume that someone black would be incompetent in the field? That's such a fucking black self-hating/right wing white racist spin against affirmative action. Why would you even feel the need to confirm that you are not asserting that Hollins wasn't a good umpire? No one assumed you were based on your post.

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:25 PM
What is wrong with you? Why do you assume that someone black would be incompetent in the field? That's such a fucking black self-hating/right wing white racist spin against affirmative action. Why would you even feel the need to confirm that you are not asserting that Hollins wasn't a good umpire? No one assumed you were based on your post.
Denise what is wrong with you? Yet again you decide to respond to my post out of all of the posts in the thread. You do it all the time. It's creepy. :tape:

I never assumed someone black would be incompetent in the field. It could possibly be that way if they don't go through the same kind of experience the other umpires have gone through though. I'm just saying it's not helping anyone to be put in an important situation with not much experience with computers identifying that possible lack of experience and the general public watching EVERY close call.

I felt the need to confirm that Hollins was a good umpire because this is a forum? You do that when people are ready to pick apart your posts like vultures.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:25 PM
It sounds like there are a few bad seeds in the USTA organization. However, I think people should stop short of calling the entire USTA organization racist. I mean, the names Louis Armstrong and Arthur Ashe are permanent fixtures at Flushing Meadows.

I do think that a lawsuit is appropriate to investigate what happened and who is responsible, because those people seriously need to be weeded out of the USTA if they did what they are accused of.
Yeah MarJen, but when the few bad seeds are controling everything in the USTA and no one in the USTA stands against them, they all fall into the same category.

Also, don't you think naming a stadium Louis Armstrong is suspect within itself? :lol: I mean, why not name it after someone who played, like maybe ummmm lemme see... Althea Gibson? If they just have to name it after someone black. I think they named it Louis Armstrong because it was more accepting, since everyone loved Louis Armstrong and because Althea Gibson represented everything they (the USTA) dislike.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:37 PM
Denise what is wrong with you? Yet again you decide to respond to my post out of all of the posts in the thread. You do it all the time. It's creepy. :tape:

If you don't want people responding to your posts, don't post. :shrug: It's as simple as that. I responded to your post particularly because I don't understand your backward thinking with regard to your own race. It baffles me how someone could sit there and denigrate their own race.

I never assumed someone black would be incompetent in the field. It could possibly be that way if they don't go through the same kind of experience the other umpires have gone through though.

Well, if you assume that they don't go through the same kind of experience as the other umpires have gone through, aren't you assuming that they are less competent to do the job. If someone gets hired in a position that someone else has been doing for years and the new person hasn't gone through or have the same experience as the other person, but they are clearly more competent at the job than the person who's been there the longest and a promotion comes up. Would you hire the person who's been there the longest, but is not as competent at the job as the new person or would you hire the most competent to do the job regardless of seniority?

I'm just saying it's not helping anyone to put in an important situation with not much experience with computers identifying that possible lack of experience and the general public watching EVERY close call.

What you're saying is that you're afraid that human error will look worse if its committed by someone black, then if its committed by someone white? You're saying that even though you're a competent umpire and you're black, it's best to stay in the background lest you make a mistake and get all the black folk in trouble with the whites. Or are you saying that it's more probable that a black person would be more inclined to make a mistake with the new computers watching as big brother than a white person would? :confused:

I felt the need to confirm that Hollins was a good umpire because this is forum? You do that when people are ready to pick apart your posts.

No need to be so defensive.

griffin
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:38 PM
The question is... should a black female umpire be replaced by someone such as Sandra De Jenkins just to stop what appears to be a glass ceiling?

No, that's not the question at all - the question raised here is why haven't fully qualified, experienced Black umpires been given their due time umpiring the biggest matches? Why should existing (white) top-level umpires a sinecure? Why shouldn't they face competition from other qualified umpires?

The rest is just a distraction.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:39 PM
Race isn't merely a card in this 'game'. It's woven into the fabric of the table. The phrase 'playing the race card' is, in essence, and attempt to make drawing attention to the white supremacist thread of American society seem like a tactic motivated by self-interest. The motivation is self-preservation. White privilege and White supremacisy comprise an ethos and belief system that not only justified murder, it led otherwise decent people to condone evil.

Yet, I think my vast majority of Americans do NOT condone this evil. Look at the 'riots' that followed the 'not guilty' verdict against LAPD officers following the videotaped assault on Rodney King. Americans of all races and ages, even neighborhoods without a single African-american, 'rioted' following a verdict that only could have been the result of a culture steeped in Aryan Supremacy. (And don't make the mistake of pretending the Blacks aren't believers in anti-Black White-Supremacy. White-Supremacy is NOT a disease restricted by race, class or culture.) The public rejected that patently absurd verdict. And made their rejection known in a way that was impossible to ignore.

Race is not a mere 'card'. It is not a tactic. For literally millions of Americans, it has been the defining fact of their lives. It has dictated where Americans could live, where they could eat, what jobs they could have, who their friends were.

I play no 'card' in pointing this out. Rather, call it forcing people to deal with the truth of race in America. yeah. I like that.

The 'truth' card has been played. Now the USTA gets to deal with it.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:42 PM
I never said that I can't imagine a COMPETENT black women doing what Sandra does and even better. I just feel she should have to go through the same process that the other female umpires have. If that means taking four years or more to get to an important match at a slam then so be it. As the general public is able to see more close calls with small errors from computers, it's important that these umpires keep up as good as they can so their jobs aren't in danger. It wasn't that the umpire during the Venus vs. Sprem match was demoted because of his incompetence, he was demoted because the general public caught him and they complained. I've seen many incompetent umpires continue their ways because noone was really paying attention and assumed that the chair would never get the score wrong. I've seen many incompetent umpires get away with things because it isn't a big event.
:rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:46 PM
I'm betting, like Volcana suggested, the USTA will settle this particualr case in a non-guilt-admitting manner, rather than see it go to court and have some of the other dirty laundry aired. I wouldn't be surprised if the other slams encouraged the USTA to settle, and helped out with the finances. After all, their records aren't so good either.
Great post overall. Kudos for your actions. Keep up the good fight.

However, the great thing about the American jurisprudence system, if Hollins isn't in it for the money, but for the cause and his case has merit, he doesn't have to settle out of court. :) He can fight it in court and bring out all of the USTA's dirty laundry.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 06:52 PM
The USTA is in a sad state if everything in this article is true. I also disagree with those that this must be about the mistakes of several individuals, not the USTA as a whole.

If clear examples are being reported and no-one acts upon it - on the contrary, it seems that those reporting the problems and speaking up are actually punished - than it is the organization as a whole which functions in a racist climate, not only some individuals. Brian Stewart's post also illustrated this.
Some severe measures seem to be necessary here - maybe the WTA and the ATP can take some actions - in soccer the FIFA and the UEFA took measures and launched actions when racism was a problem. As far as I can see, these actions had a positive effect.

Pathetic hewitt.
My point exactly. :worship: :worship: :worship:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:34 PM
If you don't want people responding to your posts, don't post. :shrug: It's as simple as that. I responded to your post particularly because I don't understand your backward thinking with regard to your own race. It baffles me how someone could sit there and denigrate their own race.



Well, if you assume that they don't go through the same kind of experience as the other umpires have gone through, aren't you assuming that they are less competent to do the job. If someone gets hired in a position that someone else has been doing for years and the new person hasn't gone through or have the same experience as the other person, but they are clearly more competent at the job than the person who's been there the longest and a promotion comes up. Would you hire the person who's been there the longest, but is not as competent at the job as the new person or would you hire the most competent to do the job regardless of seniority?



What you're saying is that you're afraid that human error will look worse if its committed by someone black, then if its committed by someone white? You're saying that even though you're a competent umpire and you're black, it's best to stay in the background lest you make a mistake and get all the black folk in trouble with the whites. Or are you saying that it's more probable that a black person would be more inclined to make a mistake with the new computers watching as big brother than a white person would? :confused:



No need to be so defensive.
No, that's not the question at all - the question raised here is why haven't fully qualified, experienced Black umpires been given their due time umpiring the biggest matches? Why should existing (white) top-level umpires a sinecure? Why shouldn't they face competition from other qualified umpires?

The rest is just a distraction.

I don't mind competition. As I said in a previous post, I consider the umpires to have a similarity to the WTA rankings in competitiveness. I'm just not going to rank one player over another just on race if the first player has consistently better results.

I believe in affirmative action. It's one thing to use it when it comes to comparing college applications but it's another when one person uses it to pick someone with a B.S. over someone with a P.H.D..

Hollins and Sande French have the right to sue and I hope they win. There's probably a bigger umpire issue in baseball though.
Denise I'll just ignore the belittling comment. Everyone has to agree with you when it comes to race. Then you have the nerve to belittle people on the race issue because they don't have the experience you do about it but it's wrong when someone else looks at an issue from an experience viewpoint.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:45 PM
Denise I'll just ignore the belittling comment. Everyone has to agree with you when it comes to race. Then you have the nerve to belittle people on the race issue because they don't have the experience you do about it but it's wrong when someone else looks at an issue from an experience viewpoint.
It's so funny how intimidated you are by me. :lol:

No one has to agree with me on any issue. But, that's funny coming from you since you think you're right all of the time about everything. :lol:

Having first hand experience with racism is not the same as having more experience in a job situation and being more competent. By the same token neither does one having a B.S. and another having a Ph.D. mean that the one with the Ph.D is better qualified.

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 07:58 PM
It's so funny how intimidated you are by me. :lol:

No one has to agree with me on any issue. But, that's funny coming from you since you think you're right all of the time about everything. :lol:

Having first hand experience with racism is not the same as having more experience in a job situation and being more competent. By the same token neither does one having a B.S. and another having a Ph.D. mean that the one with the Ph.D is better qualified.
I'm not intimidated by you. You're just annoying. I just don't go separate Chat Threads commenting about it though.
You want to live in the world of make believe and take this on a philosophical quest then go ahead. The one with the Ph.D just wasted his life away and daddy must have got him into school or he picked the wrong path in life or he can't put his degrees into action. Most sane people would pick the Ph.D person just on experience. Now if he/she found incompetent then that's a risk but a sensible one compared to the other.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I'm not intimidated by you. You're just annoying. I just don't go separate Chat Threads commenting about it though.
You want to live in the world of make believe and take this on a philosophical quest then go ahead. The one with the Ph.D just wasted his life away and daddy must have got him into school or he picked the wrong path in life or he can't put his degrees into action. Most sane people would pick the Ph.D person just on experience. Now if he/she found incompetent then that's a risk but a sensible one compared to the other.
Yes you are and you clamor for my positive attention. :lol:

Anyway, it's you who lives in a world of make-believe, because based on this post, you certainly have no business acumen. Besides that, it flies in the face of your experience argument. What if the person with the BS had more practical experience and were the most qualified? Would you still hire the person with the Ph.D over the other candidate with the experience and the BS degree?

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:20 PM
:lol: This makes my day.

So, Wannabeknowitall instead of being a man and acknowledging that your theory is full of holes, you give me the following bad rep?

http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif Former umpire alleges r... (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=8297894#post8297894) Jun 13th, 2006 02:16 PM Wannabeknowitall (http://www.wtaworld.com/member.php?u=35222) Low Blow.

Real mature :yeah:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:32 PM
:lol: This makes my day.

So, Wannabeknowitall instead of being a man and acknowledging that your theory is full of holes, you give me the following bad rep?

http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif Former umpire alleges r... (http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=8297894#post8297894) Jun 13th, 2006 02:16 PM Wannabeknowitall (http://www.wtaworld.com/member.php?u=35222) Low Blow.

Real mature :yeah:
I was coming to you sweetie. Let me defend my favorite player first. This isn't the only thread I have been posting in today. I thought it would be nice to keep you busy with something though. See I do care. :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:45 PM
Yes you are and you clamor for my positive attention. :lol:

Anyway, it's you who lives in a world of make-believe, because based on this post, you certainly have no business acumen. Besides that, it flies in the face of your experience argument. What if the person with the BS had more practical experience and were the most qualified? Would you still hire the person with the Ph.D over the other candidate with the experience and the BS degree?
Well that depends on what you consider to be practical experience for whatever career there happens to be. Some careers need people who have great skills when it comes to socializing with people. Other careers don't.

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:56 PM
I was coming to you sweetie. Let me defend my favorite player first. This isn't the only thread I have been posting in today. I thought it would be nice to keep you busy with something though. See I do care. :lol:
:bs: :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Well that depends on what you consider to be practical experience for whatever career there happens to be. Some careers need people who have great skills when it comes to socializing with people. Other careers don't.
:scratch: MORE :bs: :lol:

Wannabeknowitall
Jun 13th, 2006, 09:03 PM
:scratch: MORE :bs: :lol:

Oh have we gone to the :rolleyes: :retard: :devil: :( part of your post process so you can feel :cool: :angel: :cool: ? You bring in a possibilty to your post, it's gold. I do the same thing and it's :bs:. Would you like me to :worship: ? So you can feel :cool: about yourself? :wavey:

Denise4925
Jun 13th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Oh have we gone to the :rolleyes: :retard: :devil: :( part of your post process so you can feel :cool: :angel: :cool: ? You bring in a possibilty to your post, it's gold. I do the same thing and it's :bs:. Would you like me to :worship: ? So you can feel :cool: about yourself? :wavey:
:shrug: Whatever floats your boat after digging that hole you're presently in. :lol:

Kenny
Jun 13th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Please stop the bickering guys.. it's taking away from the thread.

*JR*
Jun 13th, 2006, 11:16 PM
I don't pretend to know the truth here. But Richard Williams came right out and blasted the IW ump, TD, etc. while that event was still going on. This man waited 8 YEARS to speak out? :confused:

ico4498
Jun 14th, 2006, 12:07 AM
I don't pretend to know the truth here. But Richard Williams came right out and blasted the IW ump, TD, etc. while that event was still going on.

This man waited 8 YEARS to speak out?

folks handle stuff differently perhaps?

US OPEN 1998 - US OPEN 2005 = 7 yrs?

Kenny
Jun 14th, 2006, 03:39 AM
Please stop the bickering guys.. it's taking away from the thread.

Just wanted to point out what good sports these guys were and didn't take it in a bad way! Thanks, I was worried after I posted it! :)

http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif Former umpire alleges r... (http://showthread.php?p=8298732#post8298732) Jun 13th, 2006 05:00 PM Wannabeknowitall (http://member.php?u=35222) She started it. :lol:
http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gif Former umpire alleges r... (http://showthread.php?p=8293273#post8293273) Jun 13th, 2006 01:11 PM Denise4925 (http://member.php?u=33177) :tape: :lol:

If I had the ability to rep (i've repped too much today) I would rep you both. :) Have a good night guys!

BK4ever
Jun 14th, 2006, 04:27 AM
I worked for the USTA on a consultant basis on two occasions. Even without having all the facts of this particular situation, I can attest that based on what I experienced and overheard while working there...I believe every bit of this story.

First off, they are the biggest not for profit fraud in the USA. Come on folks...what do you expect from a not for profit company that pays its marketing director 2 million + incentives per year. That is outrageous.

Off topic - They know nothing about marketing and they are racist as an organization from the top down. They are the perfect example of a company that believes in quotas to keep people off their asses. They do just enough to appear genuine. I heard top officials say negative shit about Serena and Venus. They love you if you fit into their mold of what a black person should act like.

I love tennis and I would love nothing more than to take my marketing experience and work for a tennis organization, but I would never work for the USTA again...unless they make major changes at the top.

Denise4925
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:12 AM
I worked for the USTA on a consultant basis on two occasions. Even without having all the facts of this particular situation, I can attest that based on what I experienced and overheard while working there...I believe every bit of this story.

First off, they are the biggest not for profit fraud in the USA. Come on folks...what do you expect from a not for profit company that pays its marketing director 2 million + incentives per year. That is outrageous.

Off topic - They know nothing about marketing and they are racist as an organization from the top down. They are the perfect example of a company that believes in quotas to keep people off their asses. They do just enough to appear genuine. I heard top officials say negative shit about Serena and Venus. They love you if you fit into their mold of what a black person should act like.

I love tennis and I would love nothing more than to take my marketing experience and work for a tennis organization, but I would never work for the USTA again...unless they make major changes at the top.
Just curious BK, are you black or white? Wow, I thought it had progressed from Forest Hills but I guess not.

Rocketta
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:12 AM
I worked for the USTA on a consultant basis on two occasions. Even without having all the facts of this particular situation, I can attest that based on what I experienced and overheard while working there...I believe every bit of this story.

First off, they are the biggest not for profit fraud in the USA. Come on folks...what do you expect from a not for profit company that pays its marketing director 2 million + incentives per year. That is outrageous.

Off topic - They know nothing about marketing and they are racist as an organization from the top down. They are the perfect example of a company that believes in quotas to keep people off their asses. They do just enough to appear genuine. I heard top officials say negative shit about Serena and Venus. They love you if you fit into their mold of what a black person should act like.

I love tennis and I would love nothing more than to take my marketing experience and work for a tennis organization, but I would never work for the USTA again...unless they make major changes at the top.

I knew you would chime in. :lol: :angel:

darrinbaker00
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:21 AM
Yeah MarJen, but when the few bad seeds are controling everything in the USTA and no one in the USTA stands against them, they all fall into the same category.

Also, don't you think naming a stadium Louis Armstrong is suspect within itself? :lol: I mean, why not name it after someone who played, like maybe ummmm lemme see... Althea Gibson? If they just have to name it after someone black. I think they named it Louis Armstrong because it was more accepting, since everyone loved Louis Armstrong and because Althea Gibson represented everything they (the USTA) dislike.
Please read this, De:
http://www.usta.com/nationaltenniscenternews/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=14185&itype=941&icategoryid=0

Louis Armstrong Stadium was already there. The USTA simply kept the name.

Denise4925
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:42 AM
Please read this, De:
http://www.usta.com/nationaltenniscenternews/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=14185&itype=941&icategoryid=0

Louis Armstrong Stadium was already there. The USTA simply kept the name.
Yeah, I looked it up earlier. I had never really thought about it until today, but it wasn't until after I posted that I bothered to look it up. By then, it was too late. :) But, thanks anyway.

The second paragraph was really more of a tongue in cheek kind of thing, as you can see that I'm laughing. But, I should have known better than to say something here without looking it up before I joke about it. :rolleyes:

darrinbaker00
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:50 AM
Yeah, I looked it up earlier. I had never really thought about it until today, but it wasn't until after I posted that I bothered to look it up. By then, it was too late. :) But, thanks anyway.

The second paragraph was really more of a tongue in cheek kind of thing, as you can see that I'm laughing. But, I should have known better than to say something here without looking it up before I joke about it. :rolleyes:
Personally, I think they should name EVERYTHING there after black people. Althea Gibson National Tennis Center, Williams Sisters Grandstand, Chanda Rubin Indoor Courts, Zina Garrison Pro Shop, Alexandra Stevenson Port-A-Potties... ;)

Denise4925
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:53 AM
Personally, I think they should name EVERYTHING there after black people. Althea Gibson National Tennis Center, Williams Sisters Grandstand, Chanda Rubin Indoor Courts, Zina Garrison Pro Shop, Alexandra Stevenson Port-A-Potties... ;)
:tape: :lol:

Crazy Canuck
Jun 14th, 2006, 05:55 AM
I worked for the USTA on a consultant basis on two occasions. Even without having all the facts of this particular situation, I can attest that based on what I experienced and overheard while working there...I believe every bit of this story.

First off, they are the biggest not for profit fraud in the USA. Come on folks...what do you expect from a not for profit company that pays its marketing director 2 million + incentives per year. That is outrageous.

Off topic - They know nothing about marketing and they are racist as an organization from the top down. They are the perfect example of a company that believes in quotas to keep people off their asses. They do just enough to appear genuine. I heard top officials say negative shit about Serena and Venus. They love you if you fit into their mold of what a black person should act like.

I love tennis and I would love nothing more than to take my marketing experience and work for a tennis organization, but I would never work for the USTA again...unless they make major changes at the top.
:worship:

(Hi!)

Seyz
Jun 14th, 2006, 06:40 AM
Well considering the active top players in the U.S. The WIlliams sisters, James Blake and the whole new crop of new female tennis players appear to have a lot of african americans, this will probably change in the future.